Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 51: Airspace

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-06-29

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 51: Airspace. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. On this podcast, we bring in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts -- many of whom work in human spaceflight. But there's another part of the NASA story that's often forgotten, and yet it's right in the name NASA itself, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. So today, we're talking about that first part, aeronautics. With me today is Harry Roberts, Flight Operation Supervisor for the Aircraft Operations Division out at Ellington Field Airport. That's kind of close to here at the Johnson Space Center. We talk about the operations out at Ellington Field and the aircraft itself that helped to make human spaceflight possible. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Harry Roberts. Enjoy. Harry Roberts, who is the Flight Operation Supervisor for the Aircraft Operations Division out at Ellington Field Airport, who talks to us about aeronautics at NASA; the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, as well as, the operations out at Ellington Field and the aircraft itself that helped to make human spaceflight possible. Harry Roberts, who is the Flight Operation Supervisor for the Aircraft Operations Division out at Ellington Field Airport, talks to us about aeronautics at NASA; the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, as well as, the operations out at Ellington Field and the aircraft itself that helped to make human spaceflight possible. [ Music ] Host: All right, Harry. Thanks for taking the time to come on the podcast today. This is an interesting episode because it's not something you would sort of think of, like, right off the bat. Like, you think NASA, you think space, but there's a whole story about aircraft, right? It's actually in the name -- National Aeronautics and Space Administration. So I appreciate you coming on. Harry Roberts: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Host: All right, so let's first set the scene. We're talking about the Ellington Field Airport. Usually, I mean, we talked to a lot of people here at the Johnson Space Center, but Ellington's, like, part of Johnson, but it's not a Johnson property. So what's the story there with Ellington Field? Harry Roberts: Right, so Ellington Field is essentially an airfield where we're allowed to do all of our aircraft operations. Host: Okay. Harry Roberts: And the aircraft operations would extend from the T-38, which is basically for the astronaut space flight readiness training program. We have our Gulfstream aircrafts, so a G-3 and a G-5, out there. Our WB-57. And then, also, when the Guppy comes into town, that's where we're going to store it. Host: So it's kind of the house for-- Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: All of these [inaudible]. That's where they're, you have them there. That's where they stay. That's where they're maintained. So it's kind of like a base of operations. You need the space because you need runways and stuff. So who else do you share Ellington Field with? Is it just NASA, or do you, is it for other things? Harry Roberts: No. Actually, so it's a joint reserve base. So you have Army National Guard out there. We have the Air Force National Guard, which operates a couple different aircraft to include the F-16's and some UAVs. And then, we also have just a regular fixed-base operations center, which is for civilian aircrafts. So they have a general aviation flight school there also. Host: So military. You got NASA planes. You got civilian planes. So it's not like your typical airport. Like, if you were going to take a flight, I don' know, if you were to book a flight and take it on like a 7, I don't know, 737, whatever, aircraft, this is totally different. This is just a smaller airport. What other kinds of cool aircraft do you see? I mean, I remember seeing helicopters there sometimes too. Harry Roberts: Yeah. So the Air National Guard will occasionally operate the-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Apache Longbow. And then, one of the other people I forgot to mention was the Coast Guard, so they'll operate their helicopters that are there in support of different operations. Host: Nice, okay. So aircraft operations, the, where this sort of fits into the story of NASA -- how does that work in relation to the Johnson Space Center? Harry Roberts: Right, so Aircraft Operations Division falls under the Flight Operations Directorate, and so we play our role in that we are there to support the astronauts in order to get them trained and ready for spaceflight readiness. Host: Trained how? What are you training them for? Harry Roberts: So all sorts of things. The great thing about the T-38 and the aircrafts that they primarily operate out of is that it facilitates them learning a bunch of different aspects, from crew coordination and communication inside and outside as well as, you know, just the ability the manipulate different things. One interesting fact right now: The astronaut or the astronaut candidates are actually there down in the maintenance area, and they're actually turning wrenches and working on the aircrafts that they go out and fly. So it's pretty neat, and they learn a lot in that aspect because not only do they fly the aircraft and learn about it from that aspect, but they also get to turn the wrenches because it's, when you're on the Space Station, you can't exactly have a, you know, a callout and say, hey, can you guys come up here and fix this? They have to facilitate all that on their own too. Host: So it's kind of immersing yourself in this world of -- that's 1 thing I always am just totally fascinated by with astronauts is you're absolutely right. You're not just spacewalking and flying around in space. No, you are there to do everything. You are the research, you're the researcher. You're the scientist. You're the plumber. [laughs] You're everything. You've maintained this spacecraft. I mean, you have plenty of support from the ground, but it's ultimately going to be you, like you said, turning the wrench. Harry Roberts: Absolutely, yeah. So they get to learn all those things here on Earth, right, before they get to go practice it in space. And it provides another opportunity that is a little bit different than a simulator. A simulator, you kind of know that there's not a whole lot of repercussions there to come out of it because it is a simulator. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: But when you're in a airplane and you're operating it out there, it's a fluid dynamic environment. Things are constantly changing, whether it's the weather, or your fuel state, or, you know, the, in the engine and how it's operating. You have to be able to adapt to those changes real time. And there's no better platform to provide that than, a lot of times, actually being in an aircraft. Host: Is it the sense of kind of accountability maybe, that ultimately it's your hands turning this aircraft, so you have to make sure you put the care into it because it's going to be you flying it? Harry Roberts: Absolutely. Accountability, and I also think kind of like an appreciation, right. You know, you take a lot of people who aren't used to that, and they've kind of spent a lot of time in the academic environment. And now, you get to put them in a different environment that they might not necessarily feel comfortable with. So they get to explore that before it's game time, if you will -- you know, being either on one of our vehicles or on the Space Station. Host: So let's just dive right into the aircraft. We're already hinting at one of them, the T-38, and this is the one that astronauts are, quote, unquote, "training" in and doing some of the maintenance, but then ultimately flying. So what is the T-38? What's the history there? Harry Roberts: So the T-38 originated as a Air Force training aircraft, right. So in order to go onto any of the follow-on jet aircrafts, they had to start off there. And we adopted it in the early '60's and have been using it ever since. Host: [laughs] Okay, so it's an older piece of equipment, then. Harry Roberts: It is, yeah. Some of the airframes that we have out there have been out there since the early capsule days. Host: You can actually, it's kind of impressive, actually, that they're still running. Props to the maintenance guys that actually keep the planes going, then. Harry Roberts: Absolutely. We have a fantastic maintenance department that's been countless hours kind of out there turning the wrenches, keeping the aircraft well maintained and ready to go for everyday flight requirements that we have. Host: So why was the T-38 the plane that was selected in the '60's? What's good about that, this particular plane you can train on? Harry Roberts: It's provided a lot of different things, one of which is redundancy, right. You have 2 engines, which is, if you talk to a lot of fighter aircraft pilots, they're going to tell you, you know, 2 is always better than 1, but it also provides you a very simple platform on which to operate from because, as you get into other more complex systems like the F-16 or the F-18, it can get very difficult when you're talking about even a simple system like the hydraulic system or the environmental control system. It gets really complicated. But here in the T-38, it's actually pretty simplistic. So it makes it, 1, easier to maintain, and then, 2, easy for the astronauts to kind of come in to learn and then go out and operate almost immediately. Host: So are the, are all astronauts flying these jets, or is it mainly the pilots that are really grabbing the stick? Or, I guess, I don't know. Harry Roberts: So right now, it is the pilots that are primarily responsible for safety of flight and aircraft control, but we do offer the RCQs, so the rear cockpit qualified individuals. So they're going to have the opportunity to kind of learn the aircraft. There's a stick in the back also, so if they had the opportunity, they could absolutely fly the aircraft from the back. So it's, I'm more than positive it's been done before. Host: So I'm trying to imagine the shape of this plane. I'm imagining sort of a tiny jet, right. It's a fairly small aircraft, right, compared to other jets that you would probably fly. And so the benefit of that is, what kind of environment is good for an astronaut to really immerse themself in for the T-38? Is it altitude, speed, acceleration? Harry Roberts: It's kind of all of those things-- Host: Okay. Harry Roberts: Because it provides that environment that is a little bit different, right. You're taking, again, people who might not be used to this, and you're putting the helmet on them. You're putting a mask on them. So it's a little bit restrictive. So then, they start to get used to those kinds of things. The speed at which it travels and, you know, manipulates. And then, additionally, you also have your gravitational forces that can be put upon the astronauts while they're operating inside the aircraft. And so that's something that can help them kind of get used to the environment that they're about to go into, right. The, I think it was one of the astronauts that I'd talked about in the past, how her experiences in the plane, and how she'd been exposed to those things, and how to operate in a very dynamic situation in which the aircraft was maneuvering, it helped facilitate her being able to perform well while she was, you know, on the shuttle as well as when they were going up into the Space Station, so. Host: Oh, so you sort of, I guess training your body to realize what's to come for a spaceflight. Oh, man. You know, I'm going to feel g-forces this way, and that's how it feels being really high, and I got to make sure I breathe this way. So you're sort of conditioning your body to really get ready for that next step, which is going to space. Harry Roberts: Right, conditioning your body as well as probably training your mind to start thinking outside the box and develop those problem-solving skills that you might not necessarily be adapt to utilizing. And, you know, really think ahead of what it is that you're about to do. So when the astronauts are on an EVA, for example, thinking about how much fuel that they have in the aircraft to kind of translate to how much oxygen they have in their suit while they're on that EVA. They have to manage that. They also have to think about, okay, this is how much I have left. This is when I need to start thinking about, you know, coming back inside and what I need to start doing to facilitate all those different things. Host: So what's like a typical flight? If you were to hop into the back of a T-38 and say, okay, now's your training? So where are you going? What are you doing? For how long? Harry Roberts: So we have various different phases that we put them through. Initially, when they come through, they get, essentially, it's called contacts. It's familiarization with the aircraft just to get the basic feel for it. And after that, they go to a navigation phase, which is going to be instruments. They learn how to navigate on the airways because it doesn't operate the same as an interstate system down here on Earth. And then, after that, they move into an air navigation phase, which is where they'll go to several different facilities or bases, fly out of there, and then come back. And then, finally, they do a formation phase. So they'll actually fly in close proximity to another aircraft. Host: Oh, okay. So there's several phases in a single flight, or is it like a step-by-step, like-- Harry Roberts: Step by step, usually. Host: Okay. Harry Roberts: So we work them up to those various phases, but-- Host: I see. Harry Roberts: In any given flight, it could be different. It just depends on where that particular individual is. So if some of the astronauts here complete, then they might go and use a T-38, say, to go to talk to someone for SpaceX, or that's what the commercial crew's doing, right. They'll go talk to someone out there at SpaceX, or they'll go use it to visit the facility at Kennedy and see what's going on over there. It just kind of helps us, 1, get them going where they need to go, but then, at the same time, they get to train while they're going up in that aircraft. Host: Oh, I see. Okay, so it's kind of like, instead of, you know, booking like a commercial flight and just going to visit the center, now you can get some training on the way to your destination. Harry Roberts: Right. Host: Oh, okay. And they, and several destinations, I guess, right? So Kennedy was one of them. You can go out to, is it Hawthorne in California where you're going to see SpaceX, or is it-- Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: Also in Kennedy? Harry Roberts: Well, so it just depends on where they're at and what they're trying to do, right. So for example, we have, we're dropping off some of the components out to the Kennedy Space Station, or, sorry, the Kennedy Center. So that way, they can see what's going on out there. Then, they'll go out to Long Beach is actually where they land to go visit SpaceX out in California and stuff like that. Host: Yeah, I was just there a couple weeks ago, so I'm trying to familiarize myself with the area. Okay, so Long Beach Airport. That makes sense. So I guess astronauts are -- are they the primary users of the T-38, or are there other pilots that are using them? Harry Roberts: Those are the primary users for the T-38. We have instructor pilots that teach, but, primarily, it's going to be the astronauts who are utilizing the aircraft the most. Host: Okay. Do you really take them through the wringer at any given point? Because you said there was an element of problem-solving that goes into whenever you're an astronaut on these planes. Maybe, do you take them through a run where something's going wrong and you have to have some kind of snap judgment to say, this is the right call? Or any kind of, I don't know, contingency situations, something like that? Harry Roberts: Sure, so we have simulators. Host: Oh, okay. Harry Roberts: And then, what we'll utilize that simulator for is emergency procedures. So it gets them familiarized with a checklist, as well as how to operate it, and then start making those judgments and decisions on the ground. And we can kind of amp up the scenario. It's fully graphics as far as being able to see outside the cockpit and stuff like that. So it provides that realism that is kind of often absent in some of the simulations, but, at the same time, it allows us to kind of utilize it as a teaching environment as opposed to, this is going to be a catastrophic event if you don't absolutely get this right right now. Host: Yeah. Are the simulators out at Ellington Field too, then? Harry Roberts: They're actually here on site. Host: Oh, really? Oh, I want to -- where are they? I want to check them out. [laughter] I'd like to take a ride for them. I mean, not in sort of any kind of problem. I would probably freak out. But just to see what it's like to fly inside. It's always so cool going out to Ellington Field because you just hear the jets going by all the time, and it's really, it's kind of a cool environment. Harry Roberts: Absolutely, yeah. It's my favorite part of coming in to work every day. Host: [laughs] Yeah. Hearing jets, and helicopters, and all kinds of cool aircraft going by. You know, I'm kind of blown away by the fact that these planes are from the '60's. I'm sure there's been some upgrades over the past that really help you to maintain them, right? Harry Roberts: Sure. So the T-38's start out, obviously, they have a series, and so the A model was the very first one, and we've upgraded since then. We're actually the T-38 November, so N. We've done significant upgrades to the avionics with inside the aircraft. For the most part, a lot of it has remained the same. There were some modifications that were done to the air inlets. So we actually changed the way they were designed, and the Air Force actually adopted them because they still fly the T-38 for their jet training. And then, we made some other modifications along the way. As far as different systems, they obviously get upgraded, and we had to change with the times. We're still making more upgrades as far as different systems would have to operate with the FAA and stuff like that. Host: Really getting your use out of it, though, if it's a 1960's plane. That's not bad. Harry Roberts: Absolutely. Host: So if you're an astronaut training for the T-38, you're learning these new upgrades. How often are you coming back to sort of just maintain your familiarization with the aircraft? Harry Roberts: So each of the astronauts, whether they're the pilots or they're sitting in the back, have a quarterly requirement that they're required to maintain a certain number of hours each quarter. Host: I see. Harry Roberts: So they have to get those quarterly requirements and then also maintain a certain number of landings if you're actually the pilot. So they come back pretty often. Host: Yeah. [laughs] I wish I had a quarterly requirement to fly a plane. I would love flying so much, but, I don't know. I guess if you're answering media calls, it's not exactly the same as flying in space. Harry Roberts: Correct. Host: All right, so the T-38 is one of them that you -- actually, you have a couple of them, right? How many T-38's do you have? Harry Roberts: We have several. So it just-- Host: Oh, okay. Harry Roberts: However many are operational that day, it kind of depends due to the maintenance cycle, but we have quite a few T-38's out there. It's pretty impressive. Host: Yeah. And you have to maintain all of them. How about that? So you have this section of Ellington Airport that's dedicated to NASA. You got, you know, you're sharing the space, and you got the T-38's over here. Another aircraft you have are, is it 2 Gulfstream aircraft, right? Two-- Harry Roberts: Correct, yeah. Host: Gulfstream planes? Harry Roberts: Yeah, the G-5 and the G-3. Host: Awesome, okay. So what are they used for? Harry Roberts: So each of those are used for primarily science missions. The G-5 we recently acquired, and we were using that almost exclusively for the direct return mission. So each time the astronauts come back from the Station and they land in Kazakhstan, we actually go there, pick them up in the G-5, and, that way, we can return them within 24 hours. So that way, all the data collection can be quickly acquired as opposed to having them come, you know, say, via commercial or something like that. Plus, it just facilitates them being able to have an environment that's a little bit more comfortable for them on their return home because, as you know, it can be a pretty arduous adventure out there for 6 months to a year on the station and then coming back. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: And then, the G-3, we also use that in place of the G-5 to do the direct return mission, but we also have different missions that we do. They actually just got back from it's called OMG, so Oceans Melting Greenland. And they go out to the polar ice caps, and they do some kind of mapping with a, essentially, they have a pod that goes and, around. They have specific lines that they go back and forth over Greenland, and they map the differential between what the ice is now and what it's been in the past. I think it's been going on for about 2 years now, so it's pretty interesting. Host: Wow. I guess how often are they doing that, flying out to Greenland? Harry Roberts: So they do that particular mission at least once a year. It's typically, we actually just got back, so it's late February, early March, and then, after that, occasionally, it happens in the fall. But primarily, we've been supporting the one in the springtime. Host: Have you gone on any of those flights and seen-- Harry Roberts: I haven't myself, no. Host: Ah, that would be cool. Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: So I know Gulfstreams are, it's actually a -- Gulfstream is a company. Gulfstream Aerospace, right? And they build private jets. Harry Roberts: Right. Host: So this, it sounds like this is not your typical private jet if it's being used for science and direct return missions. So if I'm imagining a G-5, I imagine a sort of, like, lounge area, right, [laughs] with a bar. This is not that, right? So what's the, what's inside the G-5? Harry Roberts: Yeah, it's not so much Mad Men 1965 [laughs] aircraft, but, so on the direct return mission, we'll actually modify each of the aircraft to kind of adapt to whatever mission it's going to support. So for the direct return mission, we can actually, when we had 2 astronauts coming back, we had 2 beds in there. So that way, they can lay down on the beds. Host: Oh, yeah. Harry Roberts: There's different medical things in there, so that way, they can be attended to while they're actually coming back if they have any kind of issues. Obviously, it has a laboratory on board and then some other things so that way they can have kind of, like, a kitchen, a galley, essentially. And then, if we're doing a science mission, we'll alter that, and then we'll take out those beds or we'll take out some of the chairs, and we'll roll on pallets of just basically computer equipment and say, okay, here we'll affix it to the floor inside the aircraft, and then the scientists essentially are sitting in a very comfortable chair while they operate their computer system that's sitting right in front of them to do whatever it is that they're, whatever data collection they're trying to achieve. Host: So it's kind of, it's not really customized on the inside at all. You're really just using the plane because I guess it's fast and it's, you can, easily modified, so you can switch it to whatever you want. And especially, you said the, for the direct return missions, now you have this plane that's dedicated to, from a scientific perspective, getting these astronauts back to do medical testing, to make sure they have enough rest. That makes a lot of sense. Harry Roberts: Yeah. Well, we do some other modifications. So the G-3 has a tube essentially on the back of it to drop sonobuoys out of it. So they would drop the sonobuoys on some of the Greenland missions to measure the water temperature and see, okay, how much is the temperature of the northern oceans actually rising? And then, identify that information. Additionally, we're going to put nadir windows inside the G-5. And so those windows will provide the scientists utilize optical measuring instruments, so that way, they can gather some other data for whatever missions that they might be doing. Host: Nadir windows. That's a very nautical way of saying like a window on the ground, a window on the floor, right. [laughs] Harry Roberts: Yeah, absolutely. Host: And the, I guess you can actually drop, you can drop stuff into the ocean too. Okay, that's cool. Do you need a public affairs officer for a science mission or a G-5 mission? Harry Roberts: I actually just saw a story last night on the news, and they were talking about one of the other research centers that sent out their aircraft, a P-3-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: To go to this exact mission, so maybe there's a chance for you in the future. Host: [laughs] All right. Just keep me in mind. [laughs] So science. You got the direct return missions. Now, you're maintaining this aircraft too, right? So what are you doing to maintain and to sort of make sure it's going to be, it's going to work when you need it to work? Harry Roberts: Right. So there's different phases of inspection that it has to go through based on how many flight hours it's actually done and completed. So based on those different kind of requirements, we'll go ahead and initiate whatever maintenance requirements that we have to do. It's really nice that we're able to do a lot of that stuff in house, and we've kind of coordinated with manufacturers of the engine as well as, you know, just different components [inaudible] the aircraft. Inside of AOD, there's actually a lot of different people. So there's the maintenance team, the operations team, the engineering team. And so to get things changed, we really just have to kind of go down the hall and say, hey, this is something that we'd like to adjust or change inside the aircraft. Is that a possibility? And then, the team of engineers goes to work, and then start to figure it out. You know, hey, is this going to fit inside the aircraft? Are the engines capable of supporting this as far as electronic loads? Just different things like that. So it's actually really interesting to see how this all works and kind of comes together, and it's all organic in house as opposed to a lot of different corporations that would have to kind of outsource this to whoever actually manufactured those particular components. Host: Yeah. And you can justify it by saying that this is something that you're doing pretty often, right? So you got a couple flights per year for, that you got to go over to Kazakhstan. And for a crew return, you got [inaudible] science missions that you're doing too. So there's a use case for it. So those are 2 aircraft, T-38. I'm just going to go through the aircraft. I'm just going to-- Harry Roberts: Sure. Host: So we got the Gulfstream and, or 2 Gulfstreams and the T-38's. One that is always so cool to talk about is WB-57. And that one's the high-altitude plane. Very unique looking. It's got super big wings, and it's known because it can fly super high, right. Is it technically in space when it's flying? I don't know what, where's the threshold for space is? Is it 60,000? I don't know. Harry Roberts: Yeah. I think it's just underneath, but they do wear pressure suits because of the altitude at which they're operating at. And if you had a loss of cabin pressure and you're flying at that altitude, the air is just so thin, the usual time of consciousness is microseconds, probably, at that point. Host: Oh, wow. Harry Roberts: So you would need to be inside that pressure suit in order to function at that altitude. Yeah, no, that is probably one of the more interesting planes. The giant wings on it were not the original ones. They were actually a little bit different as far as shape, but they started to notice the amount of structural damage that was occurring in aircraft that all just probably [inaudible]. The engineers who built that probably did not anticipate it still flying well into the [laughs] 2010's into the 2020's. So-- Host: So it's another old aircraft, then? Harry Roberts: Absolutely, yeah. That, one of the aircraft, NASA 927, is actually, was in the boneyard, in Davis-Monthan, for 41 years before we brought it back to life after 2 years, and it is now one of the, one of our aircraft that is actually flying. So after, it's one of the longest stints inside the boneyard and to be brought back. Host: The WB-57? Harry Roberts: That particular one, NASA 927, yes. Host: Okay, that particular -- oh, because there's only a few of them, right? Harry Roberts: Right. We only have 3. Host: Okay. Are they the only 3 in the world, or-- Harry Roberts: They are the only 3 that are continuing to operate at this time for high-altitude research. Host: Wow. So 41 years in the boneyard. Does that mean it's just sitting somewhere completely unattended for 41 years? Harry Roberts: Yeah, they do some kind of essentially setting up so that way it can kind of go into this long-term storage, but they're, they probably don't anticipate that it's ever really going to get brought back. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: And if they do, it's in a much lesser capacity than what this one is actually operating at. It's definitely getting its work done. Host: Yeah, for sure. So you got new wings on it, like you said, but it's doing high-altitude flights. Is that the main purpose of it? Is it science? Is it training? Harry Roberts: So there's a lot of science. So they kind of, I think, originally, back in the early days of the WB, they were doing some research to identify whether or not this, the radiation levels up at that altitude, what they were like, and kind of, how do we get that information? How do we collect this data, right? And so you can actually go to the source, 60,000 feet, 65,000, and collect that information. Some of the cooler things that it's done is, during the solar eclipse, we had 2 of them that tracked right underneath the actual path of totality, and it was-- Host: Oh, that's awesome. Harry Roberts: To give the scientists back on Earth a little bit longer view, right, because in whatever particular spot you were on within that path, you had a very short window that you were actually able to observe the solar eclipse. But here-- Host: Right, in the totality, it was like 2 minutes, right? Harry Roberts: Right. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Yeah. But here we were able to track it, and we had 1 aircraft essentially separated by a couple miles on side that, on that path, and as it traveled along that path, we're able to kind of monitor and capture all the data, so it was pretty interesting. Host: So how long were you able to extend your total amount of time in-- Harry Roberts: I think it was-- Host: Totality? Harry Roberts: About 8 minutes, which is-- Host: Eight minutes? Harry Roberts: Pretty good, yeah. Host: Yeah, quadruple. Harry Roberts: Yeah, and some of the other things. So after the shuttle accident with the Columbia, they were able to identify, hey, this was something that happened when the space shuttle was already on its way up during the ascent. So we couldn't actually see what fell off the space shuttle, and we couldn't see how it impacted. So what they came up with is they're like, hey, we're going to put some cameras on this aircraft, and we can fly it at such an altitude that we can actually observe the space shuttle as it goes through its ascent, and then gather that information, see if there's anything going on that we might not be able to identify initially. So we'd have that information right after launch as opposed to having to wait until, you know, during reentry. Host: So after return to flight after Columbia, you were flying WB-57's out at launch at Kennedy. Harry Roberts: Correct. Host: Oh, okay. And observing, oh, I guess you had a lot of time, right, because you were flying high-altitude planes, so you had some, you had a good view for quite some time until it passed 60,000, I guess. Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: Or maybe even beyond that? Could it tilt up? I don't know where the camera was. Harry Roberts: Well, it can tilt up, but I'm, you're still not going to be able to look down at it once it passes you, but you can-- Host: Oh, yeah. Harry Roberts: Still see it's going to give you a much better view than, you know, because at that point, the atmosphere is so thin, so it gives you a much better, unobstructed view of kind of the space [inaudible] that point. Host: So it was pretty operational for a while after return to flight. It was used for shuttle missions, and you got some cool science opportunities there that you can do. What else can the, is the WB-57 used for? Is it a trainer aircraft at all where astronauts are getting suited up inside? Harry Roberts: So some of the astronauts have gotten suited up in it, and that's-- Host: Oh. Harry Roberts: Just to kind of, you know, see what the pressure suit environment is going to be like and see all that stuff as opposed to, again, it just gives you a different simulation, right. They can go to the NBL, but it's going to be a little bit different to put on that suit and be in a situation like that. So some of the astronauts have gotten in it and had the opportunity to kind of go and fly, so it's been pretty cool for them. Host: Wow, yeah. What are the, have you ridden in it? Harry Roberts: No. Host: Oh, man. [laughs] You should. You're-- Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: Leading the charge. You go, oh, hey, I got to do this for research purposes, right? Harry Roberts: Absolutely, yeah. Research purposes. Host: Well, what do the astronauts say about it? What do they take away from it? Harry Roberts: It's just a unique opportunity and experience to kind of get that feeling ahead of time, right. There's always that opportunity where you're going to sit in the seat, and there's no time like game time, essentially. But this provides you the opportunity to kind of do it before you get there. So it provides them a little bit of a foundation to kind of build off of. Host: I see, okay. I've seen some suit-up activities. It's pretty cool what the pilots have to do to actually get prepared to go in a WB-57. They actually sit down, and you have some, I don't know, technicians or some experts who are there helping you to put the gloves on, and put the helmet on, and make sure everything is sealed, and then you get, like, this little, looks like a suitcase, I think, but it's, is it your oxygen, or the pressure itself, or-- Harry Roberts: Yeah, so it's circulating the oxygen with-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Inside the suit. So the aviation life support system guys are there helping them get suited, put it all on, make sure that the system checks out. They actually do a pressure check. So they inflate the suit to make sure that there's no leaks. And then, they actually take all the air out. So that way, they can say, hey, are you still able to breathe off of the oxygen that's being supplied to you at this point? And then, after they, they walk to the aircraft. That system that they're carrying with them is actually kind of 2 piece in that it allows them to have circulation while they're out there because, as you know, during the summertime here in Houston, it gets really warm. [laughs] So even though we'll take them in a truck, and drive them to the aircraft, and get them inside as quickly as possible, it can still get pretty hot in that suit. So they definitely want to keep that as cool as possible. Host: Oh, I can imagine. I've actually seen them, in order to take a drink in the pressure suit, they, it's different because it's not like you can just pull back your mask and start sucking away at the drink bag. They actually have a straw that they put through the helmet, right. And it's like that's how they get it through their pressure suit. Harry Roberts: Yep. Host: Yeah, that's interesting way to take a drink, but, yeah, I guess if you're cool and you need some, or you're hot and you need a way to cool off, that's a good way to do it. Another aircraft that is particularly interesting is one called the Super Guppy. So what's this one? Harry Roberts: So the Super Guppy is kind of an amalgamation of a bunch of different aircraft. So essentially, what they did is they had a problem, and we have to transport these various pieces of equipment, and it started back in the early capsule days. They're like, how do we get this stuff from where it is now kind of all over the country back to, you know, either Kennedy, or Houston, or something like that to do the science and the research on it and also put it all together? And so they kind of came up with this aircraft, and it's just various pieces of a bunch of different aircrafts that they assembled together, and they said, okay, this is, you know, what we're going to go with. And now, you have the Super Guppy, and it's [laughs] -- this is the last of I think 4 Super Guppies that they built. So it is, again, another old aircraft, but it's proven extremely useful, and it's been huge. I mean, it's already provided mission support for EM-1. Next week, it's going to deliver some components for EM-2. So yeah. That's one of the things I've had to learn here is the acronyms. So it moved the Multipurpose Crew Vehicle Stage Adapter last week for EM-1, and now it's going to move the heat shield skin for EM-2 next week. Host: Okay, so the purpose of this aircraft -- and you said it's like a amalgamation I think was the word you used -- of several different aircraft. And I'm imagining, if you were to imagine like the central tube of a -- and I'm not good with aircraft terms, so just, you know, stay with me [laughs] -- it's the central tube of a aircraft, it's like the front is just kind of blown up like a balloon almost, right. So it looks like a flying manatee. I don't know. [laughs] Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: I don't know what's a good comparison. Harry Roberts: That's probably good, yeah, because it's -- the replacement aircraft for that is called the Super Beluga. Host: Super Beluga. [laughs] Harry Roberts: So I guess manatee would be pretty good. No, essentially-- Host: Oh, a beluga whale. Harry Roberts: What they did is, so the fuselage-- Host: Fuselage. There it is. Harry Roberts: Is, yeah, the fuselage is going to be the main tube portion, and then, essentially, what they did is the upper top portion of the fuselage, they kind of expanded it as well as elongated it. So that way, it would kind of fit whatever was going to be in there. I think it's about 25 feet in diameter inside. We can actually fit all sorts of different things. So they do more than just move various components of, like, Orion around. They actually move around T-38's that are broken and-- Host: Whoa. Harry Roberts: If it's broken beyond the point that it can actually fly, then we can actually load it up in the Super Guppy and then move it to wherever we're going to do our long-term maintenance on it. It's moved an MB-22 fuselage, which is the Marine Corps and Air Force's Osprey aircraft, the tiltrotor aircraft. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: So that fuselage, it's moved that. So it's done quite a few different things, but-- Host: Osprey's a cool aircraft, right. That's the one that sort of takes off like a helicopter, and then propellers move from the top sort of forward-- Harry Roberts: Right. Host: And you can turn it pretty much into a plane. It's like a hybrid helicopter plane. It's a pretty cool aircraft. So you pretty much, the benefit of the Super Guppy is it's got such this weird shape that you can put stuff inside and transport it that wouldn't fit inside of another aircraft. That's the benefit of it. Harry Roberts: Right. It's not going to fit inside of another aircraft or it would take too long or be too much of a pain or a hassle to kind of facilitate moving it on any kind of traditional rail or, you know, road, kind of logistical means. So-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Or it would just be too dangerous, or maybe they don't want to move it because it's too high value of an asset to have it be-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Out on the road, right. So they'll go ahead and put it in the Super Guppy and then move it that way. Host: Yeah. If you're taking about like a expensive space piece of equipment, one that's certified for flight, you don't want to start over from the beginning if it gets a couple scratches on the rail. You want to put it into this nice aircraft that's going -- you know that this thing is going to transport it efficiently and safely to its destination. That makes a lot of sense. Harry Roberts: Yep. Host: Yeah. Like you said, for high-value stuff. So I'm guessing -- a lot of these aircraft that we're talking about are relatively old, right? The T-38, the Super Guppy, the WB-57 -- all these older aircraft that you constantly have to maintain. So how do you make sure that they are ready to fly? Harry Roberts: So again, you know, it's just a brilliant maintenance team that does a lot of the heavy lifting on that aspect. So the Super Guppy resides out in El Paso typically when it's not here in Houston or out supporting other missions. And out there, they're doing the maintenance to kind of get it ready. And then, also, being out in El Paso, the dry desert climate kind of makes it a little bit easier on the aircraft. Older aircraft in particular like to, like that environment a lot better than they, the humidity of, say, Houston. Host: Yeah. So I'm imagining if you leave like a bicycle out here in Houston, you get like a matter of time before the chains rust. [laughs] So, okay, it's the same thing with aircraft. So you got all these old aircraft. Are those, is that the primary aircraft that you have here, or is there more that maybe you've had and have since gone? I know one of them was actually the C-9 I think was one of them. Harry Roberts: Right, so the C-9, which was utilized for zero-gravity training. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: And then, before that, we had a KC-135, and they utilized that to support the, they called that one the vomit comet, right, so that's where that name came from. And that was just to do various parabolas out over the water, and they would simulate zero-g, they would simulate lunar gravity. So they could do different things and essentially allow the astronauts opportunity to kind of get some exposure to that kind of environment as opposed to having to wait until they got in space to actually experience it. So it's pretty interesting. Host: Yeah, learned how to move around. I did have the pleasure of riding on -- I don't think it was the C-9 -- but it was when the education office was doing microgravity flights for students. That was the program that they had a while back. I think it was called Reduced Gravity Program. I actually was an intern there and got to ride with my mentor, who was in charge of the program because I had been helping along with it. Unbelievable experience, and it is so weird to try to get used to it. But what's interesting is, so the, it does this parabolic flight where it goes up, and it's at like the peak of that parabola that you experience zero gravity. And then, when you go down, you experience 2 g's. And it's, you're experiencing zero gravity for only like a couple seconds at a time. And we did I think 30, 32, I think it was 32 parabolas. I did not, it did not take long for me to sort of get adjusted. It's incredible how quickly the body can adjust to a completely new environment, something that is never experienced before. Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: Pretty cool stuff. Harry Roberts: Yeah, so when I used to fly just experiencing, you know, different kinds of g levels at whatever time in the aircraft, it was always pretty astounding to me and how my body quickly adapted. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: And how there would be things that I'd be doing inside the aircraft that I was like, oh, wow, I can't believe we were just, you know, at 5 g's at that particular moment, and now my body was acting and reacting in a normal capacity as opposed to any other time, where you're just walking around on Earth in a 1-g environment. So it was pretty interesting. Host: So are you a pilot too, or did you just ride on the aircraft when you were experiencing this? Harry Roberts: So I was a, before coming to NASA, I was actually in the military for 11 years. I served in the United States Marine Corps as a naval flight officer. Host: All right. Harry Roberts: And so I was on the EA-6B Prowler, and I got to do that for a couple years. And then, after that, I taught at flight school down in Navy Pensacola, so it's been pretty interesting for me. Host: Okay, so you -- what's the Prowler? What's that aircraft? Harry Roberts: The EA-6B Prowler is an electronic attack aircraft. Host: Okay. Harry Roberts: So its essential and primary mission was to deny and delay the enemy's use of the electromagnetic spectrum. Host: What? [laughs] Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: That's straight-up sci-fi, man. Harry Roberts: After that, it gets pretty complicated, so. Host: [laughs] Okay. We'll just stop there. Okay, pretty cool. So you experienced a lot of different forces on your body during some of those flights. Five g's -- that's got to feel pretty intense. Harry Roberts: Yeah. So when you're kind of experiencing it, you don't really notice it. Host: Really? Harry Roberts: There's this one time that we actually pulled more than 5 g's, and I had no idea. The adrenaline was rushing so much at that point that I didn't even really notice it. And then, there was another time that I remember I was kind of had my arms on the canopy rail, and I looked away for a second, and it was at that moment that the aircraft turned, we initiated a pretty strong pull, we pulled about 7 g's, and I was like, okay, no big problem. And later that day, my wife was asking me, she was like, "Hey, where's that bruise on your arm, where did that come from?" And I had to think about it for a second, and then I remembered where I had my arms, there was a little lever there, and so that level had actually put an indention into my arm and caused it to bruise after that 7 g's, so. Host: Oh, wow, because it was 7 g's of force being applied to your side right there. Harry Roberts: Yep. Host: And you didn't even know it. Harry Roberts: I had no idea. Host: [laughs] How does it sort of feel like? How would you describe the feeling of extra g's? For those who haven't ridden on a plane. I've felt 2 g's. I mean, you could probably compare it to like a roller coaster ride or something, but the feeling of having additional gravitational forces on your body. Harry Roberts: Probably say you don't notice it too, too much because you're typically sitting down, and you're not going to notice it a whole lot until you try and maneuver or move some kind of appendage on your body. Then, that's when you notice. You're like, oh, wow, my head feels very, very heavy right now. [laughs] Or, why does it feel like my arm is lifting a 60-pound weight so I can press this button? It's at that point that you actually start to recognize it, and you're like, oh, wow, this is kind of painful. And then, before you know it, it's over, usually, so. Host: I guess looking straight is probably a good method whenever you're flying and experiencing these g's. I imagine if you're turning your head just left to right or up and down and trying to look over -- I know, I mean, I, just doing like a roller coaster ride, one of the many reasons I probably couldn't be an astronaut/pilot is I get terrible motion sickness. So even like turning over to the side would be, I guess with those gravitation forces, would sort of induce nausea to a point. Harry Roberts: It can, but, again, you know, you're talking about how the body reacts and kind of adapts-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Pretty quickly. Once you get used to that environment, it becomes kind of second nature to you, and you get used to it pretty quickly. A lot of the training that we do is to kind of prepare your body for those kinds of things. So we incorporate that into the various training aspects. We do a centrifuge training, and they're used to, one of the sets in there is you actually turn your head to the left, and you are anticipating there's going to be some kind of gravitational force. And it goes basically from 0 to about 6 and a half, upwards of I want to say almost 9 g's. And then, at that point, you're supposed to be able to execute the Hick maneuver in order to maintain consciousness as well as keep the blood inside of your upper body as well as inside of your brain. And then, after that, you're like, oh, okay. You start to learn how to deal with all these different things and how to kind of operate within that environment as opposed to, you know, just being, having it slammed into you immediately on day 1. So we kind of baby step people through those processes. Host: What's that maneuver? You said the Hick maneuver? Is that what you said? Harry Roberts: Hick maneuver, yeah. So essentially, you're squeezing all your lower extremities in order to keep the blood from just pooling in your feet. And then, you're also kind of adjusting the way you breathe and essentially making a "hick" sound. And that's closing off your throat and kind of the, all the main arteries that run up to your brain. So that way, you can squeeze that blood back into your brain. Host: Wow, you're literally forcing, okay, you're forcing the blood up. How do you squeeze your legs? Are you doing it with your hands, or are you just, like, flexing? Harry Roberts: You're just flexing. So you're taught to kind, like, squeeze from the bottom up. So you'll squeeze your calf muscles and your thighs, your glutes, and then you'll just try and keep all that as tense as possible. And then, while you're doing that, you're doing the Hick maneuver. So in addition to kind of keeping that blood flow up inside of your brain, you're also keeping the air inside of your body because it's a huge exertion on behalf of whatever that individual is to kind of do all these things. So you have to hold all that air because it's real easy to kind of let it all out because we're just used to breathing in a 1-g environment, right? And now, [inaudible]. So you kind of have to monitor that, maintain it. Otherwise, it can be lights out real quick. Host: I can see how you would probably want to practice that maneuver and get pretty good at because in the event that you would need to pull a serious amount of g's -- I know in the future, one of the things they're looking at is, for example, talking about Orion, you already hinted at EM-1, EM-2, some of these Orion missions, for crew flights, they're going to have an abort system on top. And you're already on top of the largest rocket in the world, the Space Launch System. But then, if you want to escape the largest rocket in the world, you have to have a really, a lot of force in a very short amount of time that's going to pull you away, and you're going to experience some significant g's there. So I can see how if you, in an abort scenario particularly, you would really want to master that technique. I know while you were describing what you had to do, I almost passed out. So the fact that I'm talking right now is pretty amazing. [laughter] So we got aircraft operations at Ellington Field, and while we're on the top of just Ellington and Johnson Space Center, kind of to give the whole perspective of what's going on here in Houston because I don't think we've talked about it before on the podcast, I don't think. Yeah, so we got the Johnson Space Center, which is next Clear Lake, right. Then, we got a little bit more northish is Ellington Field. But we also have something called the Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory, right? Harry Roberts: Right. Host: Which is pretty close to Ellington Field. Harry Roberts: Yeah. I'd probably say it's kind of in between the both of us. So like from the flight line over to Ellington, you can kind of look over and see on site. It'd be a lot quicker if I could just walk across probably as opposed to driving over here. But, yeah, you can see the Neutral Buoyancy Lab, and then the rest of some of the buildings are kind of faint in the distance. But, yeah, you can definitely see it out there. Host: Yeah, and that's, the, I guess you can call it the giant pool. Harry Roberts: Yes. Harry Roberts: And that's where they simulate extravehicular activities, suiting up in a space suit, and going for a space walk. Full-scale markups in the pool. You can pretty much get a feeling. Just like you can get a feeling for g's and get a feeling for this flight simulation sort of feeling within the T-38, you can get a feeling for what it's going to be like to do a space walk in the pool. That's probably one of the best simulators we have for what the actual thing is going to be like. And I think White Sands Test Facility is also part of the story, right? Host: Yeah, but I would have to kind of do a little bit more research to kind of get the information on that one. Harry Roberts: Me too. Yeah, we'll have to bring someone on to talk about that, but that's sort of the, I think that's, that pretty much is Johnson Space Center. It's mainly those facilities and probably a couple other things here and there. But everyone working together for human spaceflight, pretty much. So you said you had a military background. What other sort of, I guess most of the [laughs] flight instructors and folks out at Ellington are going to have some sort of military or pilot background, right? Host: Right. So as far as the research pilots, we typically recruit those individuals who have had a experience, 1, in a jet aircraft, and then, 2, as an instructor because it's going to be their primary role and function. Every one of our research pilots goes on to eventually become some kind of other pilot in addition to that, whether it's on the WB, or the Gulfstream, or the Super Guppy. Harry Roberts: Yeah. Host: But, yeah, we typically recruit military pilots to be the research pilots out of there, so it's probably one of the few opportunities that you get to fly after the military in a jet aircraft and get to do a lot of the things that you did before, so. Harry Roberts: So is there elements of collaboration? Because we're not the only NASA center that has aircrafts. Like, there's actually I think Armstrong Spaceflight Center over at Edwards Air Face in, Edwards Air Base, there it is, in California. They have some aircrafts out there too. Is there elements of collaboration there? Host: Yeah, so, actually, the Glenn Research Center, they just came down with a T-34, which is a turboprop aircraft, and were able to get some of the astronauts in there, and simulate some spin training, and then get them the opportunity to kind of sit in the front seat and experience what it's like to fly from the front because it's a little bit easier to maneuver and fly in that particular aircraft. And then, we also have, we're going to interact with Armstrong. We're going to help support them. They're going to bring down some Hornets to do the quiet sonic boom technology. They're going to be part of that development, so we're going to be helping them and supporting in that role. Host: Quiet sonic boom, that's pretty cool. Harry Roberts: It's, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you say it out loud, but then-- Host: [laughs] Quiet sonic thump, maybe? Harry Roberts: Yeah, so that's the idea is-- Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: Turning a sonic boom into a sonic thump, right. Host: Yeah. Harry Roberts: And then, 1, facilitate travel kind of across the United States commercially with that technology, but also, as far as spaceflight, right. If you got to see the audio from SpaceX when they landed those 2 rockets simultaneously-- Host: Oh, yeah. Harry Roberts: There was actually a pretty loud sonic boom whenever they came back. You could hear it in one of the videos that I saw. So, you know, developing all that stuff, it's going to be key for future exploration in flight like that, especially since you're going to bring it back to the United States. Host: That's right. Yeah, that'd be cool if supersonic flight can be just a little bit quieter. I mean, I would love to go to Europe in, like, 2 hours. That would be pretty cool. [laughs] Harry Roberts: Yeah, I'm sure everybody would love that. Host: Yeah. [laughs] That'd be pretty great. All right, well, Harry, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sort of telling the story of this aeronautics element to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Appreciate you coming on. Harry Roberts: Thanks for having me. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today we talked about aircraft operations and the Ellington Field part. That is the whole story of the NASA Johnson Space Center. I don't think we've addressed this on a previous episode, but we just sort of label it as an episode because it kind of helps us keep track of how many we've done so we can brag about it later. But really, you don't really have to listen to them in order. So there's a lot of other topics that you can cover on Houston We Have a Podcast. We talk to a lot of different people -- astronauts, scientists, engineers, flight directors, flight controllers, pilots -- all these different, cool people with honestly amazingly stories, amazing stories. So you can go back and listen to any episode in any order. Otherwise, there's plenty of other NASA podcasts you can listen to. We got Gravity Assist out at headquarters hosted by Dr. Jim Green that's about planetary science and our friends over at Ames Research Center for the NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast. They talk about the some of the research that goes aboard the International Space Station. On social media, you can follow the NASA Johnson Space Center accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. You can use the hashtag #asknasa on one of those platforms to submit an idea or maybe a question for the podcast, and maybe we'll turn it into an entire episode or maybe even answer it in the beginning for a future episode. So this podcast was recorded on April 10th, 2018 thanks to Alex Perryman, Kelly Humphries, Lori Wheaton, Pat Ryan, Bill Stafford, and Brandi Dean. And thanks again to Mr. Harry Roberts for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

Recruitment Lessons Learned from a Tailored Web-Based Health Intervention Project Y.E.A.H. (Young Adults Eating and Active for Health)

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Brown, Onikia; Quick, Virginia; Colby, Sarah; Greene, Geoffrey; Horacek, Tanya M.; Hoerr, Sharon; Koenings, Mallory; Kidd, Tandalayo; Morrell, Jesse; Olfert, Melissa; Phillips, Beatrice; Shelnutt, Karla; White, Adrienne; Kattelmann, Kendra

2015-01-01

Purpose: Recruiting college students for research studies can be challenging. The purpose of this paper is to describe the lessons learned in the various recruitment strategies used for enrolling college students in a theory-based, tailored, and web-delivered health intervention at 13 US universities. Design/methodology/approach: The…

Patients' health beliefs and coping prior to autologous peripheral stem cell transplantation.

PubMed

Frick, E; Fegg, M J; Tyroller, M; Fischer, N; Bumeder, I

2007-03-01

The aim of this study was to determine the associations between health locus of control (LoC), causal attributions and coping in tumour patients prior to autologous peripheral blood stem cell transplantation. Patients completed the Questionnaire of Health Related Control Expectancies, the Questionnaire of Personal Illness Causes (QPIC), and the Freiburg Questionnaire of Coping with Illness. A total of 126 patients (45% women; 54% suffering from a multiple myeloma, 29% from non-Hodgkin lymphomas, and 17% from other malignancies) participated in the study. Cluster analysis yielded four LoC clusters: 'fatalistic external', 'powerful others', 'yeah-sayer' and 'double external'. Self-blaming QPIC items were positively correlated with depressive coping, and 'fate or destiny' attributions with religious coping (P<0.001). The highest scores were found for 'active coping' in the LoC clusters 'powerful others' and 'yeah-sayer'. External LoC and an active coping style prevail before undergoing autologous peripheral blood stem cell transplantation, whereas the depressive coping is less frequent, associated with self-blaming causal attributions. Health beliefs include causal and control attributions, which can improve or impair the patient's adjustment. A mixture between internal and external attributions seems to be most adaptive.

HWHAP_Ep27_ The Search for Life

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-01-12

Production Transcript for Ep27_ The Search for Life.mp3 [00:00:00] >> Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 27, The Search for Life. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So this is the podcast where we bring in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts -- all to tell you the coolest information about NASA and about space. So today we're talking about something super cool, how we're looking for life in the universe. We're talking with Aaron Burton and Marc Fries. Aaron and Marc are both planetary scientists here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. And we had a great discussion about the different NASA initiatives all looking at organic material in the solar system and what we're finding from these studies that help us understand the fundamentals of life here on Earth and possibly in the universe. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right into our talk with Dr. Aaron Burton and Dr. Marc Fries. Enjoy. [00:00:50] [ Music ] [00:00:57] >> T minus five seconds and counting. Mark. [00:01:05] >> [Inaudible] there she goes. [00:01:06] >> Houston, we have a podcast. [00:01:08] [ Music ] [00:01:14] >> Well, this one's going to be good because -- I'm excited because this one's about the ultimate question, right? Are we alone in the universe? That's literally -- I mean, it's in the NASA mission statement, right? Everything we do is to explore the unknown and -- reveal the unknown for the benefit of humankind or something like that. So I guest I'll start off with this question: How many times a day do you ask yourself that question, "Are we alone?" [00:01:40] [ Laughter ] [00:01:42] >> Well, it's back there, you know, squirrel caging around somewhere all the time. [00:01:46] >> Yeah. [00:01:46] >> I don't know if I stop in, like, the middle of shaving and go, "Wait a minute, but are we alone?" [00:01:51] [ Laughter ] But, you know, I do think about it on a regular basis, sure. [00:01:54] >> I figure, well, because that's the whole thing, right? This is your job. Your job is to look for organic material, right? So I guess to just pull back. And I just think that would be super cool, are we alone or -- you know, that's not bad. [00:02:06] >> You know, I'd say I think about it more at night. Well, when you look up at the stars and you just see all of the stars. [00:02:13] >> Okay. [00:02:13] >> That's just what we can see. [00:02:15] >> Yeah, exactly. [00:02:16] >> So the thought that we're the only game in town seems a pretty -- pretty unlikely. [00:02:21] >> Yeah. I just took a camping trip out to Big Bend a couple weeks ago. And that was just an eye-opener. Because I thought I had seen, "Wow, there's a lot of stars in the sky," you know, when I was living in Pennsylvania. But out in Big Bend you can see the Milky Way. And there's constellations where you couldn't even see them because there was just that many more stars. It was just the clearest sky I've ever seen in my life. I was like, "Wow, this is just -- from a different part of Earth I can see this many stars." It was crazy. All right. Well, so let's start off with just a little bit about you guys and since you're both planetary scientists kind of what your focuses are. [00:02:59] >> Okay. Yeah. So I have built a research lab where we look for organic molecules that we find in meteorites. So these are carbon-containing molecules. And I'm interested in the ones that are related to biology. So things that biology could use. And so by looking at the organic molecules that are found in meteorites, that gives us a way to look at samples where biologically interesting molecules are made but they weren't made by life. They were just made by sort of abiotic chemistry, things that can happen in our solar system. And so I'm interested in doing that because I want to know about the chemistry that was going on before life started. And then from understanding that chemistry, try and take the next step forward to think of if we know the chemistry that was going on without life, how did that transition into a living system that we have? [00:03:53] >> Wow. Literally the origins of life. [00:03:56] >> Yeah. [00:03:56] >> That's pretty cool. How about you, Marc? [00:03:59] >> I work in curation. I'm a scientist in curation. And then curation I should explain. We basically take care of NASA's collections. We have the Apollo moon rock collection, we have meteorites from Antarctica, we have samples from -- delivered by a couple sample return missions. And all the curators, all the curation scientists are expected to have a scientific interest as well and maintain a scientific course of study. What I study is carbon in geological systems, not necessarily just organic chemistry. Aaron's much more of a specialist in that, much more of an expert in that than I am, per se. But more of carbon in entire systems ranging from, you know, gas phase carbon that you find in rocks, whether it's biological or geological carbon is part of a system on planetary surfaces and interiors and such. [00:04:54] >> But it's fair to say, you know, carbon is an essential component of life, right? [00:05:00] >> As far as we know, yes. [00:05:01] [ Laughter ] [00:05:02] >> That's true. There's a bunch of other things, you know, that we can talk about. I don't know -- I don't know if you guys actually discuss silicon-based life forms or anything like that or -- [00:05:12] >> Yeah, I -- [00:05:12] >> -- I would say carbon. Carbon's usually the good stuff, right? That's the basic form of life. [00:05:18] >> Yeah. So at the most simple aspect you have carbon, and we like it because it make four bonds. So you can make these long polymers out of it. And so if you just go down the periodic table, silicon, well, that does, you know, similar things. [00:05:31] >> Right. [00:05:32] >> But carbon's actually pretty special. So if you compare carbon and silane or methane and silane -- so metaion is CH4, silane is SIH4. You know, those would be sort of the analogous molecules. By silane actually is, like, an incredibly explosive gas. And it's very difficult to keep on Earth, whereas methane, you know, sort of hangs around and gets produced. So that works out well for organisms that produce methane and for life. And then if you start looking at other things like CO2 as a gas, that's what we breathe in and breathe out, you know, trees use that for photosynthesis. If you compare that SIO2, you know, that's -- [00:06:14] >> It's a rock. [00:06:15] >> [Laughs] Yeah, that's a -- [00:06:15] >> Kind of hard to breathe rock. [00:06:17] >> [Laughs] Yeah, it's -- yeah. So it's hard to breathe. It's not very easy for organisms to process it or to access it. And so, you know, it ends up being just a less mobile sort of building block. If you're whole life was centered around silicon, now it's all sand, right? [00:06:34] >> Yeah, a little harder. So carbon is just the magic ingredient, really, just because that ability to bond to so many things. [00:06:43] >> Yeah, at least based on physics in our solar system. [00:06:48] >> Well, so, you know, the whole just concept of life, searching for life, right? I mean, there's a lot of things that we study out in the universe, but this quest to find life outside the solar system, why is that so fundamental to us as humans, to go out and to search for it? [00:07:06] >> It's a good question, kind of hard to answer because it's just kind of -- best answer I could give is that it's just a fundamental question. I mean, anybody's who's looked up at night, like Aaron said, has had to wonder. You know, there's an awful lot of stuff up there. Surely there's got to be something else. It's just a basic, almost primal human query. I don't know how to put it any better than that, honestly. [00:07:34] >> Yeah. [00:07:35] >> Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of like the human tradition of exploring. And, you know, first it started out, you know, humans on a land mass. And they said, "Well, what's on the other side? You know? What's over those mountains?" [00:07:46] >> Right. [00:07:47] >> What's across that river? And then expanded to what's across that ocean? And then what's at the bottom of the sea floor? And now, you know, what's on the next world over? And, you know, it's kind of that exploring but also then, you know, if we're asking these questions, is there anyone else out there that's asking those same questions? [00:08:06] >> Yeah. That's true. I mean, if you think about human history, just the fact that people travel, they find a new civilization and can open up new trade routes. Or even as far as cross the Atlantic Ocean and discover a whole new world trying to find more trade routes or something like that. So it's just -- I guess you're right, it's kind of built into our DNA that we just have this drive to -- it's not enough, right? We want to -- we want to know. We want to know why. We want to know more. [00:08:33] >> Yeah. You look at the sky and you say, "I'm pretty sure there's life out there. but I want to sort of prove it." You know? [00:08:37] >> Yeah. [00:08:38] >> I want to find it, actually know. [00:08:40] >> Pretty sure is not good enough [Laughs]. [00:08:42] >> Luckily humans have a low fascination threshold. [00:08:46] [ Laughter ] [00:08:48] >> So -- so I mean, just besides the fascinating of it, why is it important to understand the origins of life? You know, what can we get out of it? [00:08:59] >> Well, for me, you know, I've just been interested, I guess, from the scientific standpoint of, you know, how does life start? Which I think naturally leads to could life exist elsewhere? And so those are two kind of the basic questions. Because if life could exist elsewhere, then that answers your sort of fundamental, intrinsic question of is there life elsewhere? If you know how it started, then you know what signs to look for, what kinds of environments you need to look in, what types of chemistry needs to be going on for you to look there for life. [00:09:34] >> So how does just -- you know, once you do that, you know, I guess you can help you search for life outside, but what about here on Earth? You know? Is there applications for, you know, learning more about how the origins of life and how that comes to be? How can that help us here? [00:09:51] >> See, I would answer that by saying that, you know, fundamentally we're answering -- it's like we said, like [inaudible] talked about just a minute ago, this understanding the origin of life is one of primal fundamental human queries that most people want to know. And as scientists, our goal, our purpose is to discover exactly that sort of thing, to try to answer those sort of questions, to be the interpreters of the world around us, to try to enrich everyone's lives. And that's a really important thing that a lot of people are interested in. So it's a high priority for scientific investigation. For a more nuts and bolts approach, you know, maybe understanding the fundamentals of how life arose would give us better understanding into our own biochemistry at a very fundamental level. That's a possibility. [00:10:49] >> Improving life for us, you know, making life better for humans. Just however -- you know, bring it into industry, make better drugs or understand how, you know, people grow up or develop. You know, just life, right? [00:11:03] >> The fundaments of how a cell functions on the chemical level. It can't be bad to know more about that. [00:11:11] >> [Laughs] Well, talking to -- [00:11:13] >> I would -- [00:11:13] >> Oh, go ahead. [00:11:14] >> Sorry. So I would just add that a lot of what origins of life researchers try to do is sort of recreate how life could have started. You know, ideally if you had a time machine, you would just go back in time 4.5 billion years -- [00:11:28] >> Oh, that would be easy [Laughs]. [00:11:29] >> -- to the start of life. But it raises a philosophical issue, which is what if you disrupted that process and so you actually killed life? So maybe that's a bad idea. But, you know, without a time machine we don't have to worry about that. But the best we can hope to do is sort of recreate how life started or how life could have started. And so a lot of the experiments that have gone on in there have looked at sort of alternatives to DNA. And so these alternatives to DNA have actually been shown to not be recognized by sort of modern biology. So you can make sort of a drug out of this alternative DNA that now has a longer lifespan inside of a human. You know? So it's kind of expanded the range of drugs that are accessible and kind of opened up or helped contribute to the field of synthetic biology where we can start, you know, doing gene manipulation, genetic therapies. So there really are practical applications of it in addition to satisfying our kind of curiosity about how life started. [00:12:32] >> Just out of curiosity, these studies, are there any going on, on the International Space Station right now that have to do with sort of understanding life and how the origins or maybe just how it affects humans? [00:12:44] >> Well, yeah, every astronaut that we send up there is sort of an experiment on how -- [00:12:48] >> There you go. [00:12:49] >> -- how environmental conditions are affecting life and biology. But there's also exposures. So they put microorganisms on the outside of the ISS, for example, and then expose them to radiation, that sort of thing, bring the organisms back. So that's kind of, you know, an emerging field, too. [00:13:10] >> Wow. All right. So we talked a lot about the why of -- why search for life and all of that. But let's pull back and just kind of understand just what we're talking about here. So how -- as one of the experts in the field of understanding life and studying life, how would you define life, Aaron? [00:13:28] >> That's a good question [Laughs] that people have actually really wrestled with. [00:13:33] >> Really? [00:13:33] >> It's not an easy one to answer. So the origins of life community has settled on a sort of mouthful, which is that life is a self-sustaining chemical system that is capable of Darwinian evolution. And so, you know, there's a lot in there. [00:13:52] >> Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. [00:13:53] >> But self-sustaining means something that can actually reproduce itself and grow, not necessarily grow in size but grow in population. So if you have one molecule and now it can make, you know, ten more, etc. and continue to reproduce. But it's also important that it be able to actually change over time. And that's where the Darwinian evolution comes in. So if you have, you know, a salt crystal that's made up of sodium and chloride, and you can add more sodium and chloride to that salt crystal and it's getting bigger, so it's growing in some sense. There are more sodiums and chlorides in there. But it doesn't really change. Right? So we would never call a salt crystal alive, even though it can, you know, grow. It's a chemical system. So you really need that capacity to change for an organism to be able to do something different and to sort of respond to its environment. That's a very technical -- [00:14:43] >> It makes sense, right? You got to check those boxes. Because otherwise if you do the wrong definition, you know, salt is life now. So [Laughs]. [00:14:46] >> Yeah. [00:14:46] >> You'll get that salt life sticker on the back of your car. [00:14:48] [ Laughter ] [00:15:00] >> Yeah. [00:15:01] [ Laughter ] [00:15:02] >> Totally different thing. [00:15:03] >> Very funny. Yeah. [00:15:04] [ Laughter ] [00:15:05] >> That's awesome. [00:15:05] >> So then for you, Marc, I guess you're studying carbon specifically, right? So then how does that fit into the picture of understanding life? [00:15:15] >> It kind of goes to what Aaron was saying about understanding the chemical conditions at the origin of life. There's a fun conundrum there, actually, in that okay, we know that life arose on Earth and -- but it's basically being able to get directly at the conditions where that happened is very, very difficult because of ironically life itself. Life has basically overprinted everything on the planet. Whatever conditions it was that gave rise to life on Earth, you know, they might be here today, there might be something in the deep ocean, there's all manner of hypotheses about this, but it's very, very difficult to pin that down because life has altered this planet so -- so completely. I mean, from the mantle to the surface, to the top of the atmosphere, chemically, morphologically, isotopically, everything has been changed. And so trying to get back at that original set of conditions that gave rise to life is actually really difficult here on Earth. [00:16:16] >> Wow. Is it -- is it, you know, postulated more that life itself started on Earth and then just sort of spread and literally changed the makeup of the Earth, or is there some chance that maybe, you know, it came from somewhere else and maybe just got delivered to Earth or something? [00:16:34] >> I don't like that -- [00:16:36] [ Laughter ] Here's the reason I don't like that, is the notion of life coming from somewhere else. Just from the sake of samples that it doesn't actually answer the question of how life arose; you just moved it somewhere else and put an almost impossible journey in between the origin and its evolution on Earth. We know that the Earth has been changed considerably by life. We have oxygen in our atmosphere because of it. I guess that's off on a tangent a bit. [00:17:07] >> Please go if you need to. [00:17:09] [ Laughter ] [00:17:12] >> Yeah. So fundamentally that's my problem with saying that it started somewhere else and came here. Because that you are introducing a big complication to it without really putting any light on how it happened. [00:17:25] >> Yeah. [00:17:26] >> Yeah. As Marc was saying, you know, we think life started in water on a rocky body somewhere. So whether that's Earth, or Mars, or, you know, somewhere else, you still need life to start on a rocky body with water somewhere. So, you know, speculating that it was Mars and then it got transported here doesn't -- from a practical standpoint doesn't help you address, you know, those conditions necessarily any better. [00:17:54] >> Well, still, I mean, narrowing it down to, you know, we could say you need a rocky body with water for it to at least start, right; is that at least a starting point for understanding the origins life? [00:18:06] >> I think it is. That's a good distillation. There's another interesting little conundrum in there. Aaron mentioned Mars. And I was just talking about how Earth has been completely overprinted. There's a lot of interest in trying to find life on Mars. And that's fine, that's good. But there's kind of a -- a hidden value to a completely dead Mars. Let me go off on a little bit of a tangent here. [00:18:39] >> Please do. [00:18:40] >> Let's say that life started on Earth and that Mars, even though it had all the conditions for life -- apparently water, fairly warm, fairly dense atmosphere -- never had life. If that's the case, then basically Mars has preserved in a kind of mummified state those conditions early in the formation of the terrestrial planets when life arose on Earth. So one of the fun conundrums here is that a completely dead Mars with no history of life may give us -- may be a very powerful tool to understanding the origin of life on Earth. [00:19:15] >> Huh. So that's where the many rovers that we've sent to Mars over the year come into play, right? We're studying Mars and trying to understand its history to see what we can learn about its past and see if what you're saying is true. Maybe -- maybe the atmosphere was -- was thicker. Maybe there was water. And all of these instruments that we're sending there are the things that are finding all of this out. [00:19:39] >> That's right. Narrowing down that history. [00:19:41] >> Yeah. [00:19:42] >> And looking -- and trying to answer the question of whether there is or was life on Mars. That's an important part of it. [00:19:48] >> All right. Well, understanding Mars and the different, you know, rovers we've sent there to study that -- you said you were part of the curation facility. [00:19:56] >> Yes. [00:19:56] >> So -- and you said all the different things that are there, right? So you're talking about meteorites and moon rocks. Are there hints there that maybe can points towards the origin of life? [00:20:07] >> Right. So amongst the samples we have are samples of Mars. You know, they come to us as meteorites. The -- here at NASA we curate -- we partner with the Smithsonian to curate the Antarctic meteorite collection. We have a very large number of meteorites from Antarctica. There is a team called ANSMET, the Antarctic Search for Meteorites, which goes every year and collects more of them. Actually, the team for that left into the field to go start their annual search -- I believe it was two days ago. They just started off. [00:20:40] >> All right. [00:20:40] >> So we get these meteorites every year. And they include periodically Martian meteorites. To date, you know, not just the NASA collection, but all the collections in the world, we have on the order of -- well, in excess of a quarter of a metric ton of Mars meteorites. We have samples of Mars that date back to billions of years old or as young as ten of millions of years old. We have samples that have come from evidently only a meter deep to ten meters deep or so, others that were solidified in place like a kilometer deep, much deeper than that. There's this random sampling from all over the planet. Here's where I say the thing that a lot of people don't like to hear and that I am fairly -- there's a wide range of opinion about -- in the scientific community onto whether or not there's been life on Mars, is life on Mars? I'm fairly convinced by the meteorite evidence that there is not life on Mars, nor has there been. [00:21:45] Because in all those meteorites that we have from all over the surface, all manner of depth, all through a wide range of history is this neat random sampling all over the planet, we have yet to see any evidence -- any conclusive evidence of any metabolizing in those rocks. And that tell us that not just today but for a very long period through the past that these meteorites have witnessed that nothing has lived in them. I think that that's a fairly compelling result. It's not the final say, but yeah. [00:22:19] >> Yeah. Guys, it's kind of interesting because you say Martian meteorites. But, you know, to an average Joe like me, I would ask the question how does -- how does a piece of Mars get delivered to Earth? [00:22:33] >> Right. Well, the solar system's a wild, unruly place with a lot of things that run into each other. You know, basically take a look at Mars and you see impact craters all over it. What happens is a meteorite falls onto Mars, or the moon, or other asteroids and they spall material off in an energetic high-speed event known as an impact and kick material clean off the planet basically. And this stuff, you know, winds up in orbits across the Earth's orbit and fall to Earth. And we find them -- they fall -- meteorites fall all the time. The reason why these guys, ANSMET, goes to Antarctica is because they tend to concentrate in places where they're easier to find there. There are literally places in the Antarctic ice sheet where the only rock you'll see is something that fell there. And so they can go out and collect these things there. And that's the process. There's an impact at the beginning, a long period in the vacuum of space, a fall to Earth through a fireball which destroys most of the meteorite. [00:23:40] And if anything survives, it winds up here. [00:23:43] >> All right. So, Aaron, what would you be -- do you investigate the meteorites? Are you looking at organic compounds in them? [00:23:54] >> Yeah. [00:23:54] >> So what inside of them would sort of hint at life, that life would exist within that and you can find traces of it? [00:24:03] >> So I actually usually look at it from the other perspective. So to me, you know, I look at meteorites, which are the surviving remnants of likely asteroids but potentially even comets. You know, it's the material that falls to Earth. So I look at that material and I start with the hypothesis that there was no biology. So this to me is a dead rock from something that, you know, was an uninhabitable environment. And then I'm looking at it for the chemistry that can go on without life present. And so for me, this is, like, the next-best alternative to my time machine from earlier because now I have this asteroid that's been, you know, floating around. It was formed about at the same time that the Earth was forming in the solar system, so 4.5 billion years ago. And it's just been floating around in space. And every now and then pieces of these asteroids get fragmented off and they make their way into Earth. [00:25:05] And then we get these samples. And then when I look at one of these samples in this 4.5 billion-year-old rock and I find things like amino acids that are the building blocks of proteins, you know, then I say, "Okay, so what was the chemistry that was going on in this asteroid or in the solar system 4.5 billion years ago that led me to find the amino acid glycine?" That's kind of the perspective. And we know from sort of modern biology there's DNA, RNA, and proteins. And in proteins in particular there's 20 amino acids that are used in all of biology. And if you look at a particularly amino acid-rich meteorite like the Murchison meteorite, which is probably one of the most famous carbon-rich meteorites, so it's got about 80 different amino acids in them. [00:25:58] >> Whoa. [00:25:58] >> And many of them are not used in biology at all. And so, you know, that's both a good indicator that's it's not contamination from modern biology on it, but it's also indicative of sort of abiotic chemistry, you know, happening 4.5 billion years ago where there's a lot more random chemical reactions that are taking place. Whereas in biology everything is very controlled. You know, you take a range of chemicals in that you eat, and then you turn them into a fixed number of chemicals that, you know, make up your body. [00:26:34] >> Yeah. [00:26:35] >> Whereas abiotic chemistry will make all sorts of things, a whole range of things. [00:26:40] >> Wow. So what does that mean? That means that, you know, life here has restrictions based on what could be possible. And then maybe there's amino acids that could create life maybe on another planet with a different set of amino acids that are not restricted by the norms of Earth; is that kind of fair? [00:27:04] >> Yeah. [00:27:05] >> All right. I could be a scientist [Laughs]. Maybe not, too fast. Okay. [00:27:10] >> Yeah. So there's two sort of variations on that. And both of them would sort of be the ideal case -- or you can't have two ideal cases, can you? But both would be two very good cases. So one is that you're looking for life on another body, and you find life, and it uses entirely different amino acids. But it's got proteins, and they're just different than what we have on Earth. You can say, "Okay, cool. You know, that's life and it's not something that we just brought in our spacecraft." [00:27:41] >> Yeah. [00:27:41] >> The other difference that could happen is subtler. And it's -- and it's an interesting thing. So we talked about carbon being able to make four bonds. And carbon makes sort of a tetrahedron shape when it's in these -- when it's made four bonds. And so it's almost like a pyramid. [00:28:01] >> Oh, okay. [00:28:02] >> And so what's interesting is that the four atoms connected to that carbon atom, if they're arranged in a different way stereochemically or so, like, the different sides of the pyramid and then one point sort of floating up above it, you can actually have two different sort of chiralities or stereochemistries of those molecules. So we talk about it shorthand left-handed and right-handed molecules, which are really just an easier way for us to keep track of it. Your two hands are the same, they do the same job. You know, one's just a left hand and the other's a right hand. And you don't notice a problem until you grab the wrong glove and it no longer fits on your hand. [00:28:44] >> Okay. So it's more of a fitting problem rather than a dominant hand kind of a problem? [00:28:48] >> Yeah. [00:28:48] >> It's more of a -- okay -- how things put together. [00:28:50] >> Yeah. And then, you know, when you measure the chemical and physical properties of molecules that are handed, they're identical except in how they interact with other handed molecules or certain kinds of light. And so if you found life on another planet that didn't use different amino acids, it would be interesting if it used a different handedness than life on Earth. So all life on Earth makes left-handed proteins. And all life on Earth -- [00:29:18] >> All? [00:29:19] >> All. [00:29:19] >> What -- wow. Okay. [00:29:21] >> So all life on Earth uses left-handed amino acids in its proteins and all life on Earth uses right-handed sugars in its DNA and RNA. And so if you were looking for life elsewhere and you found only right-handed proteins and, say, only left-handed sugars, then, hey, you've got life and it's definitely not Earth life. So it's definitely a difference. [00:29:43] >> Yeah. So -- so DNA, RNA is a right-handed sugar that just happens to pair nicely with the left-handed amino acids, which are exclusive to Earth, right? [00:29:54] >> Yeah, to biology. [00:29:55] >> To biology? Okay. So then would -- is there a left-handed sugar of DNA, RNA, or are you thinking there's something entirely different, like, that would fit with the right-handed amino acid? Maybe I'm not asking the question right. [00:30:10] >> No, it's -- [00:30:11] >> It would still be DNA, RNA? [00:30:14] >> Yeah. So they're -- you know, so DNA is deoxyribose nucleic acid and RNA is ribonucleic acid. [00:30:20] >> Right, right. [00:30:21] >> And what we leave out of there is a little prefix at the front that has a D. And in the case of amino acids and proteins, we leave out a little symbol in front that's an L. And so it's believed that one of those came first and was fixed. So you either had left-handed proteins or right-handed sugars that came about. And then proteins or -- the other one evolved around it. So you started with a system that had left-handed proteins and that fit really well with right-handed sugars. And that was where evolution took off and that was how you got, you know, sort of left-handed life and right-hand sugars. [00:31:00] >> I see. Okay. [00:31:01] >> But we were talking about synthetic biology and origins of life experiments. So I have left-handed proteins and right-handed sugars in me. And if you give me a drug that's made out of left-handed sugars, my left-handed proteins don't recognize those sugars anymore. And so those molecules can stick around a lot of longer in my body because my natural mechanisms for processing, you know, DNA from food I eat or, you know, bacteria that are floating around everywhere, they don't work on those molecules. [00:31:31] >> Hmm. So what's an example of a left-handed sugar that would just sort of stick around? [00:31:38] >> So you could actually make just left-handed DNA. [00:31:41] >> Oh. [00:31:41] >> And left-handed RNA. [00:31:43] >> How do you make it [Laughs]? [00:31:45] >> So that's a synthetic organic chemistry that ends up being fairly difficult. But what's interesting about this is so people have gone in the lab and taken a naturally-occurring left-handed protein and they've synthesized a right-handed version of it. [00:32:01] >> Yeah. [00:32:02] >> And they've found that it works just fine. You know, it fold into its active state. There's no difference in the activity, except that now this right-handed protein recognizes a left-handed sugar molecule. So in this case I think it was the glucose molecule. [00:32:16] >> Okay. [00:32:16] >> So we eat right-handed glucose all the time -- that's what our natural food is -- but this artificial enzyme that they made wouldn't recognize that. But when they gave it left-handed glucose, it processed its chemical reaction just fine. [00:32:32] >> Hmm. So then -- all right, let's think about a hypothetical. So if you're on another planet that isn't the mirror world, I guess, right, you got right-handed proteins and you got left-handed sugars, would it kind of look -- it's like a mirror version of Earth, right? It's just, like, the same. Would that work, or are we talking about something that would be entirely -- like, things would just look different, act different, or is it just a mirror image? [00:33:01] >> It would be weight loss world. [00:33:03] >> Weight loss world. [00:33:04] >> You go there and eat all you want. You don't actually -- you're not actually able to metabolize any of the food [Laughs]. Correct me if I'm wrong but, you know, there's no reason why that sort of biology wouldn't work within its own system. But, you know, if we went there and tried to live there and eat the foot off the tree or whatever, we wouldn't get anything out of it. If I'm not mistaken, there is a commercially available artificial sweetener that is the other-handed version of sugar and it tastes sweet, but you can't digest it. [00:33:34] >> Huh. So what does it do? Does it make you -- it's not weight loss city in that world, is it? Or is it because you're not processing it, maybe you don't gain any weight. I don't know how that would work. [00:33:46] >> You can't use it. [00:33:46] >> You can't use it? [00:33:47] >> Yeah. It's just -- yeah. [00:33:48] >> So would you pass it, then? It will be -- okay. So it wouldn't just, like, stick around and be fat. Okay, that's good to know [Laughs]. All right. Maybe I'll sprinkle that on some cupcakes or something and tell myself it's okay. [00:34:05] >> Yeah. [00:34:05] >> [Laughs] So that's interesting, just the idea of right-handedness and left-handedness. And there's a certain set of amino acids that exist on Earth, but there's a whole realm of possibilities that can exist just because we've studied, you know, rocks in space or something. So correct me if I'm wrong here because this is just piece of trivia that I thought I knew, but now that you guys are here, I want to ask you. It's an asteroid when it's in space, it's a meteor when it's passing through the atmosphere, and a meteorite once it hits the ground? [00:34:38] >> Or a meteoroid in space, which is -- [00:34:40] >> Meteoroid. [00:34:41] >> Smaller asteroid. [00:34:42] >> Oh, okay. [00:34:43] >> But yes, meteor when it's passing through the atmosphere, that's the luminous ball. And then if anything survives to the ground, that's a meteorite. [00:34:50] >> Okay. Yeah, that's always something that stuck in my mind just because, you know, I used to call it the wrong thing. So when you study meteorites, you are specifically talking about the things that are on the ground? [00:35:01] >> That's right. [00:35:01] >> You're not going out and grabbing things and bringing them back or you're not catching things as they're passing through the atmosphere? You're going out. And Antarctica's a good place to find them because black rocks on a white surface are pretty good, right? [00:35:12] >> Yep. [00:35:12] >> Is it fair to say meteors are falling throughout atmosphere all the time? [00:35:16] >> All the time. [00:35:16] >> Yeah. [00:35:17] >> On average there is a meteorite fall somewhere on Earth about once a day. [00:35:21] >> Wow. [00:35:22] >> But, you know, most of those are very small. You figure 70% of them are going to land in the ocean because planet's about 70% ocean. You know, of the remainder -- of the remaining 30% half of them are going to happen during the day and probably no one will notice them. Most of the ones that make it down of the remainder from that -- excuse me -- fall someplace that's, you know, difficult to recover. And it doesn't take much. You know, tall grass is enough and you won't find them. Swamp is enough, you won't them. If it lands on the nuclear power plant, you're not going to get those back, either. [00:35:56] [ Laughter ] [00:35:58] >> On -- so on average you get about a meteorite fall a day somewhere on Earth. There's the Meteoritical Society maintains a database of all the world's meteorites. And they record give or take about a dozen new meteorite falls per year. Those are the ones that are actually found. Some of those hit something and, you know, they become hard to miss, like, coming through the roof of someone's house or dentist office. Or other ones are just very large events that people go hunting for and find. So there's your statistics. [00:36:32] >> Yeah. And a lot of the material that comes in is just dust. By the time it makes it through. And so if you think about, like, meteor showers that we have all the time, that's when Earth is passing throughout debris from the tail of a comet. So this shooting star is material that's burning up, you know? But some of that material falls in as dust. And so you would never, you know, notice it. [00:36:52] >> Yeah. [00:36:53] >> But there's little grains of cosmic dust that are -- [00:36:55] >> Yeah. We actually have a collection of that, too. The cosmic dust collection. [00:37:00] >> How do you collect cosmic dust? [00:37:01] >> Airplanes -- very, very high altitude. NASA has a -- operates a fleet of basically former spy planes -- WB-57's here at Ellington and ER-2, which is sort of like a U2, out at Dryden, California. And they fly to 60,000 feet and up and deploy collectors that collect this falling dust out of the atmosphere. [00:37:24] >> Wow. So if it's not big enough to actually strike the Earth, you say it kind of disintegrates and doesn't hit the Earth, but it's there. It's in the atmosphere just kind of floating around at 60,000 feet. That's cool. All right. I like to see that collection. That would be a pretty cool collection. Cosmic dust. [00:37:38] >> We can do that. [00:37:40] >> [Laughs] So once it passes through the atmosphere, is there -- is there a change that happens? Like, is there a difference with if you were to pick up a meteorite off the grouped, maybe there's something that -- the way it interacted with the Earth's atmosphere or something that changed something that would be different from if you were to find the same thing up in space. [00:37:58] >> Yes. [00:37:59] >> Okay. [00:37:59] >> The most fundamental change is that a good probably 99% of it is now gone; it turned into a plasma on the way to the ground. So most of it's lost. The next big thing that happens is the outside of any meteorite you find is going to be covered with a molten crust. I think it's called a fusion crust. And it kind of looks like a pottery glaze. It's from basically flash melting the surface of the thing as it's coming through the atmosphere. And but the -- probably the biggest change that happens to any of them, you know, rule number one of meteorites is that they all have life. And they get the life from Earth. When they land here, they're coming into our biosphere. They will land on the ground somewhere. Even ones in Antarctica, we've found life in some -- terrestrial, excuse me -- life in a lot of these meteorites. So that's the biggest change. Because anything infecting these rocks tends to start to eat any of the carbon that's in there and process it and change the -- like he was saying, it takes the native amino acids and starts to process them into -- as you're basically turning it into microbial matter, now it has a chiral preference as the microbes grow. [00:39:14] They change it isotopically and chemically over time, and that's probably the single-biggest change that happens. Especially for organic chemistry and the things we're looking for, for the question of origin of life and whatnot. [00:39:29] >> Yeah. So then how do you isolate to find out what things have not been affected and what things you can tell are within the meteorite that, you know, were there before it came to Earth and was affected by Earth's atmosphere? [00:39:45] >> Exactly the kind of chemical signals that Aaron was just talking about -- chirality, you know, the amino acid abundance, you know, looking for biomarkers/biosignatures, depending on what you want to call them, such as DNA. If you find terrestrial DNA and terrestrial microbes in this thing, then it's been altered. You can kind of expect that. But good laboratory practice is, you know -- is fundamental to sorting out exactly that question. You know, you have your blanks, and standards, and replicate measurements, and statistical analyses. [00:40:20] >> And yeah, what I'm looking for molecules that are relevant to biology, I start with the assumption that anything that looks like biology in the sample is from biology that was introduced on Earth. And then I need the evidence in the meteorite to, you know, support that -- a conclusion other than that. So if the amino acids were made out in space, they should actually have an equal mixture of left-handed and right-handed amino acids. They shouldn't have that predominant left-handed excess that biology shows. So if I take a bacteria and I run it through my meteorite processing methods, I'll get all L amino acids. And a little bit of it gets converted back to D during the process. So a meteorite, the initial sort of baseline hypothesis is that if it's from the meteorite, it should be a 50/50 mixture. And if it's skewed towards left-handed, then I have to assume it's biological contamination unless there's some other piece of evidence that tells me that, you know, no, this really did actually happen out in space. [00:41:26] >> For example, way more right-handed amino acids, right? [00:41:30] >> So that would be, you know, the ideal scenario, especially when looking for life. [00:41:35] >> Yeah. [00:41:36] >> There are other less sort of obvious markers that we can look at. So one of them has to do with stable isotope ratios. And so if we think about something like carbon, it normally has in the most abundant form of carbon has six protons and six neurons. And it's carbon-12. [00:41:54] >> Okay. [00:41:54] >> And then about 1% of carbon on Earth is carbon-13. And then some trace amount is carbon-14, which is actually radioactive. And so that's what they use for radioactive dating. [00:42:05] >> Okay. [00:42:05] >> And so things that are found on Earth tend to be enriched in carbon-12 relative to carbon-13. And then even furthermore, things that are processed by biology on Earth really like carbon-12 and they don't like carbon-13 very much. Now, what's interesting is if you go out into a very cold environment, so out in sort of our pre-sun, our protosolar nebula where places were much colder, you actually prefer the heavy isotopes. So carbon-13 is actually favored over carbon-12 more so relative to the preference on Earth. So it's not like you have 10 times as much carbon-13, it's like 1.01% carbon-13 instead of, you know, 1% carbon-13. And so from these very small signal differences, you can actually tell that something was actually made out in space rather than processed by biology on Earth. And it's these kind of subtle differences that they actually use in, like, Olympics events to determine whether people were using steroids. [00:43:11] >> Oh, really? [00:43:12] >> Because our biochemistry produces different, like, testosterone than, like, soy plants if you're getting it from plants. And so you can actually tell from the isotopic signatures whether the testosterone in an athlete came from them or if it was produced in a lab or grown in, you know, some plant somewhere. [00:43:32] >> Wow. The answer's in the details. [00:43:34] >> Yes. [00:43:34] >> Literally you're looking at the finest details and even the slightest change, you can tell if it's otherworldly. That's pretty cool. [00:43:42] >> Yeah. And that's where you have to start with the hypothesis that this is contamination. [00:43:47] >> Yeah. [00:43:48] >> You know? Unless you can prove that it's not. [00:43:51] >> Okay. So then -- so then is there an effort to go out and, you know, find something more pristine? Maybe rather than doing -- getting a meteorite maybe go out and get an asteroid that has not touched the Earth's atmosphere, is there something we're doing now? [00:44:09] >> Yep. That would be OSIRIS-REx. [00:44:11] >> Okay. [00:44:12] >> So OSIRIS-REx mission is on its way to Bennu. It will collect samples from that asteroid. It is a carbonaceous body. We can tell this by, you know, spectroscopy at a distance. And actually, what we're touching on here is a sample return missions and why you would want them. This is actually really nice conversation leading up to it. For example, let me explain why you want to do missions like this in general. Let me use the example of Mars. Okay? We're seriously talking about doing this, collecting samples from Mars and returning them from Earth now. I had said earlier that we already have a quarter of metric ton of Martian meteorites on Earth. So if you're just going to go get more for the sake of getting more, it's really not a really use of your resources. But we also talked about how any meteorite that falls to Earth, you have to assume it's contaminated. And so what you -- the really nice things you get out of a sample return mission that you can't get from meteorites is you get to collect materials where you to great detail know their contamination and alteration history. [00:45:25] And by and large you're going to get stuff that's very minimally altered. That's usually one of design goals of the mission -- definitely part of the ones we've ever done. So you control the contamination history of the meteorite, and you get to know to great detail what it is by monitoring during the course of the mission. You also get to select your samples. For the example of Mars samples, what we can do is collect types of rock that we don't have in the Martian meteorite collection. Sedimentary rocks take very poorly to getting pounded by a meteorite and blasted off the planet. They tend to turn into dust and you never see them. But we can go and carefully collect these. Basically, the meteorites that survive the trip from Mars to Earth tend to be very, very tough rocks. Now we can go and carefully collect the ones that we are actually more interested in, in some respects for investigating the hypothesis of past or present life on that planet -- the sedimentary rocks, the evaporites, the very friable, crumbly stuff that may preserve evidence of ancient organics. [00:46:34] Those we can collect. So -- and finally, you get to know exactly where your rock came from. When you look at a meteorite, you know, most meteorites, Martian meteorites, we can say, "Where this from? Well, it's from Mars, you know, somewhere on the planet." If you go and do a sample return mission, you know the contamination history, you get to select samples that you don't otherwise have access to, and you know exactly where it came from on the planet. And you can take everything you learned about it in the lab and apply it to, you know, an outcrop, a spot, a crater, a lithology, some location on that planet and start to build the greater history of the planet in great detail that way. So that -- whether it's for Mars or for Bennu or, you know, eventually comets or otherwise, that's kind of the driving impetus for doing these sample return missions. [00:47:26] >> Hey well, I'm going to stay optimistic and say if we explore some of these spots in the more pristine environment of Mars, I think we can maybe look for the origins of life that way. [00:47:37] >> But if there's -- you know, so as Marc was saying, you know, the rocks that we get on Earth from meteorites are really hard, tough ones. And so, you know, the chances of life living in a solidified lava flow is probably a little bit different than if you could actually get material that was in a location that we think was the bottom of a lake, say, where would expect life to have existed and perhaps get actually trapped into that sedimentary material. [00:48:05] >> Yeah, that's true. Because location, location, location, right? [Laughs] [00:48:09] >> It's a fair argument. Like I said, you know, there's a lot of discussion about this. It is a -- not all scientists are -- how do I put it? We're still discussing it. [00:48:23] [ Laughter ] [00:48:25] >> More research is needed. [00:48:26] >> More research. [00:48:28] >> And scientists hate consensus. [00:48:30] >> Ah. [00:48:30] >> Yeah, pretty much. [00:48:33] >> So then what's -- you said Bennu is carbaceous [phonetic]? Is that the word? [00:48:38] >> Carbonaceous. [00:48:39] >> Okay. Carbonaceous. [00:48:40] >> It is black as coal. [00:48:41] >> Black as coal. So it's full of carbon. Very interesting thing to observe. So what's OSIRIS-REx going to do? Is it going to land and bring something back or is it just going to stay there? What's the mission like? [00:48:53] >> Yeah. So Bennu is about a half-kilometer-wide asteroid. OSIRIS-REx launched in September of 2016. [00:49:01] >> Okay. [00:49:01] >> Rendezvous is going to be in 2018. [00:49:05] >> All right. [00:49:06] >> And actually, the spacecraft is going to orbit for about a year and a half and carefully map out surface of the asteroid to identify scientifically interesting regions that it can collect a sample from. And the scientifically interesting question will be counterbalanced by safety. [00:49:23] >> Ah. [00:49:23] >> Because you can't, you know, really endanger the spacecraft while you're trying to collect the sample. [00:49:27] >> Yeah. Oh, that sharp mountain looks really, really interesting. [00:49:31] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's more important that you get the sample back than [Laughs] that you choose the exact-most scientifically interesting place. And so the -- after finding a suitable location, the spacecraft is going to go down and it's got almost like a little reverse vacuum cleaner. So it's got a little touch and go sample acquisition mechanism that will actually contact the surface of the asteroid. And then it's got nitrogen gas that will it will actually blow into that surface. And that will actually push the dust into the sample collector. And so like I was saying, like a reverse vacuum cleaner. You're blowing the dirt in. [00:50:12] >> Blowing it, yeah. [00:50:13] >> You know, that works on a rather small body because gravity is much less of an issue there. So the mission requirement is to get at least 60 grams. And from experiments on Earth and under similar gravity conditions, they should be able to get several hundred grams or more that will then be tucked away into a sample return capsule that will make its way back to Earth. It will land. I'm amazed that people can do this with orbital dynamics. But it will land in Utah. [00:50:45] >> Wow. [00:50:46] >> In the desert in September of 2023. And these samples will be transported to a curation facility and processed and then eventually made available to researchers all over the world who are interested in, you know, studying this material. [00:51:01] >> Oh, that is cool. Fire it out to space and land it in Utah. That's -- that's a target. That's quite a target practice right there. That's pretty cool. So I guess it's going to kind of be like -- so the moon rocks that we have here in our -- some of them have actually never been exposed to Earth's atmosphere, right? They've been sealed. Like, are we going to expect the same thing for OSIRIS-REx? It's going to be sealed away from Earth's atmosphere? [00:51:27] >> Some of the samples will be preserved for future research. [00:51:31] >> Okay. [00:51:31] >> I think the design of the capsule doesn't keep it entirely free of Earth's atmosphere. But for what they're trying to do for the mission goals, that was appropriate. But yeah, definitely some will be preserved away for future generations just like any other collections. [00:51:49] >> All right. That's a pretty cool mission. [00:51:51] >> Yeah, yeah. Looking forward to seeing it. [00:51:54] >> Yeah. 2023, that will be a cool thing to watch it come back. So, Aaron, since I have you here, I did kind of want to bring up DNA sequencing just because you -- you know, that's such an interesting thing that will happen on the International Space Station, literally sequencing DNA in real-time. Can you kind of explain kind of what that project is all about? [00:52:15] >> Yeah. So this -- this is a project that actually has sort of two goals. So one is, you know, crew health and human exploration. And then I have my sort of ulterior motive or goal, which is looking for life elsewhere in the solar system. So it's a nice marriage of two applications of the same technology. [00:52:38] >> Pretty cool marriage. [00:52:39] >> Yeah. [00:52:40] >> Looking for life outside the solar system and studying astronauts in space. Pretty cool pairing. [00:52:44] >> Yeah. [00:52:45] >> Yeah. [00:52:45] >> And so this -- the DNA sequencing, we want to use it for crew health, to be able to do environmental monitoring. And so you want to look on the International Space Station or ISS for microbes, be able to identify them to know if there's harmful organisms there. And as we think about going beyond ISS, if you're going to send humans to Mars and they're going to go on a three-year mission, if the crew member shows signs of an infection, you know, we want to have a diagnostic capability to know, you know, so if you cough up some phlegm, okay, what's in that phlegm? And then is that something that needs to be treated with an antibiotic or that something your body will clear on its own? You know, be able to make informed decisions about that. Because we're not going to be able to do resupply missions on -- it would hard to hit a moving target flying to Mars and catch up to it. [00:53:40] >> Yeah. [00:53:41] >> So we're trying to give that sort of in-flight, you know, diagnostic capability with the DNA sequencing. And then when the humans get to Mars, you know, I'd like them to be able to go out and dig up a sample and extract it and actually look for life that's present on Mars. [00:53:58] >> Wow. So sequencing DNA is kind of like -- I'm trying to explain it in as laymen terms as possible to wrap my brain around it because it is pretty complicated stuff. But it's basically identifying, right? [00:54:08] >> Yeah. [00:54:08] >> It's -- so if you said, you know, if they have a cough, they can do a sample and they know exactly what you're coughing up. They know the exact makeup, and then you can identify what kind of antibiotic you need to take because you know exactly what's inside your body. [00:54:21] >> Yeah, yeah. So DNA, you know, is like a language. It's got an alphabet. There's only four letters -- there's A, G, C, and T. But all life on Earth uses that same alphabet from the tiniest microbe to humans. And so it's sort of like books in a library, right? The books are all different because they have more letters or less letters that are arranged in different words. And so, you know, analyzing -- I guess sequencing DNA is like taking a page out of that book and then searching for all the words on that page. And then if you had a computer that could process it, you could say, "Oh, that page came from A Tale of Two Cities. Or that page came from this book." [00:55:07] >> All right. [00:55:08] >> Or that paragraph. And so the more of that page or paragraph, the better of a match you can get, you know? If you have a chapter of a book, then you can nail it down to -- discounting plagiarism. You know? [Laughs] You can nail it down to a single book or a single organism. [00:55:25] >> All right. That's pretty cool. Although, I mean, for an alphabet of four letters, you know, life is pretty diverse [Laughs] for such a tiny alphabet. And, you know, you're taking analogies from books and I'm imagining the books. But four letters that can make all these different things, that's pretty astounding. [00:55:45] >> Yeah. Well, so a virus can have around 50,000 of these letters in its entire genome. So all the instructions that a virus needs to do to infect a cell and then get the cell to make more copies of it all encapsulated in 50,000 letters. [00:56:01] >> Whoa. [00:56:01] >> And that's something like the microbe that that virus might affect could have several million of these letters. And then humans are about 2.5 billion of these letters or 3 billion. And then actually, there are certain plants that even have, like, ten-fold more of these letters in their genome. But it's a -- you know, it's pretty amazing that biology can do so much with a limited -- sort of the limited alphabet. [00:56:31] >> That's true. But thank goodness there's no -- there's no word in the English language that's 10 million letters long. [00:56:38] >> Yeah. [00:56:38] >> So that's pretty good. It would be really hard to write A Tale of Two Cities with [Laughs] -- you would probably get one word in and still it would be the biggest novel you've ever seen in your life [Laughs]. [00:56:51] >> Yeah. An interesting thing about that is they are actually starting to switch to -- or trying to develop DNA as a way to store information. So it's like a new data, I guess, like replacing solid state drives or spinning hard drives is to encapsulate things in DNA. [00:57:09] >> Whoa. All right. Well, it's got a lot of storage, right? Because you can -- [00:57:12] >> Yeah, yeah. [00:57:13] >> -- you can fit it. Wow. Okay. That's difficult to wrap my mind around [Laughs]. I'm thinking about storing something in, like, a cell. [00:57:22] >> Can I talk about something else weird, too? [00:57:24] >> Yes, please. [00:57:25] >> No [Laughs]. [00:57:26] >> This is not the place for that [Laughs]. [00:57:28] >> So one of the things interesting that we've -- you know, we've talked about life as we know it and the search for life. And then there's this concept of being able to identify life as you don't know it. [00:57:41] >> Whoa. [00:57:42] >> And so we've talked about, you know, left-handed and right-handed proteins and it would be great if you could find right-handed proteins or amino acids that aren't on Earth, or left-handed sugars, or sugars that aren't on Earth. So that's one of the cool things for me about the DNA Sequencer Project is the way that it sequences DNA has actually got these little tiny pores that are actually just big enough for a single strand of DNA to pass through. And when there's nothing in the pore, you get basically an open current. And then as the DNA molecule passes through it, it blocks that pore. And so the current is reduced. And the reduction in current tells you something about the sequence of DNA that's passing through it. So, like, AGCTA would have a different signal blocking than GACTA, for example. And so it's an entirely electrochemical way of detecting this. And you can apply it to other molecules that we might not necessarily recognize as life. [00:58:46] So -- [00:58:46] >> L, M, N, O, P. [00:58:48] >> Yes [Laughs]. That's exactly right. And so people are using this technology to sequence RNA, which is different than DNA. It differs in the sugar, so it's deoxyribose versus ribose. But in RNA an interesting thing is that you have more than the A, G, C, and T -- actually, RNA uses U instead of T. But in things like ribosomal RNA and transfer RNA, which are present in biology, extensive modification is made of the bases. So there's actually, like, 118 different letters that show up in RNA that people are figuring out how to actually characterize using this nanopore sequencing. [00:59:28] >> Wow. [00:59:29] >> And so I'm interested -- and not just me, a number of people are looking at this -- but, you know, making a more universal life detection mechanism. So, you know, if you can do DNA by now you don't need the deoxyribose, it can be any sugar in there. [00:59:46] >> Oh. [00:59:46] >> Or instead of the A, G, C, and T letters, if you can L, M, N, O, P as Marc said. [00:59:51] >> Yeah. It will just look for letters and then just see what pops up. [00:59:54] >> Yeah. [00:59:54] >> Yeah. [00:59:55] >> Yeah. And so you lose some of the resolution. So maybe you won't know that it was an A. But if you start seeing a polymer of semirepeating, you know, signals or letters, you know, at some point that starts to tell you there's information there. [01:00:12] >> Oh, wow. [01:00:13] >> Yeah. That's where it gets really deep [Laughs], is that, you know, probably one of the most important biosignatures or biomarkers is information. Right? You have to have instructions for how to do whatever it is that the organism is doing and a way to copy that information. [01:00:29] >> Wow. All right. I can think of, like, 100 different ways we can go and just go on a tangent and talk about all these crazy topics. It's amazing. But we do have to wrap up. So I kind of wanted to end on something like a -- some of the guests I like to bring and ask this question specifically because we're at the Johnson Space Center and it's human space flight. But for you guys, you know, in the search for life, why from your point of view is human exploration so important to discovery, especially in the field of looking for the origins of life? [01:01:01] >> I can give my answer, sure. [01:01:02] >> Yeah. [01:01:03] >> You know, basically humans have an innate need to explore. It's something written into, I think, most children. Unfortunately, I think a lot of adults tend to lose that over time. But it's there. The -- we can explore with robots. You know, I'll use some air quotes, you can't see them. It's exploration, but in a sense you're -- with a robot, you are exploring through a computer screen. And that's fine, you do learn. It is exploration. But on -- it may not be -- you know, at what point is that no longer satisfactory? I'd answer that with a question: At what point do you just have to go there and see it yourself? You know, there's technical arguments for why you want send people. They are, I believe, much better in a field environment when you're investigating something. You know, they can turn around data, they can come up with new ideas, they can process things. [01:02:07] You know, you can get a whole lot more out of having somebody kneel down, pick up a rock, and turn it over in their hand in some instances than some of the data you get from rovers and landers and such. You know, that's been my experience. But fundamentally there's that innate drive to explore. And yeah, that's the question. You know, when is watching all this through a computer screen going to be unsatisfactory? [01:02:39] >> How about, you Aaron? [01:02:41] >> I got to follow that up? [01:02:43] [ Laughter ] So I would, you know, echo the -- the -- just the much more versatile skillset that, you know, a human has compared to a robot, you know, where a human can look out for several miles and walk and adjust its path in a pretty easy way and, you know, not get stuck somewhere. So you can, you know, explore a lot more ground in a given, you know, time period. If you want to dig a hole, you can dig a deeper hole because you've got a shovel and you just keep digging until you decide that -- you know, it's easier for a human to make these decisions themselves than, you know, try to communicate all that to a -- to a robot. But I think, yeah, as Marc was saying, it comes back to that sort of innate curiosity, you know, where -- what's over the mountain, what's across the river, what's at the bottom of the ocean. You know, we didn't know that these other places would be good or great or, you know, useful. [01:03:44] But you kind have to know. And so, you know, going to Mars or the moon and learning how to live on the moon or learning how to live on Mars teaches you something about how to live on Earth, how to travel in space, how to live on other planets. And then it serves as a stepping stone. Okay, well, what's beyond Mars? What's beyond our solar system? You know? We're going to need to develop light speed travel and all that. But, you know, assuming that we're able to do those things, you know, it just -- it enables the next frontier, if you will. [01:04:21] >> Very cool. Guys, thanks so much for coming on today. This was a fascinating topic. And always at the end of these I get so charged, especially when we end with, like, the why. I'm like, "Yes, let's do it. Let's go out and explore." So thanks so much for coming on and talking about life. Can't wait to follow it up with one of these weird tangents that we almost went on today. But thanks again, guys. [01:04:40] >> No, our pleasure. [01:04:42] [ Music ] [01:04:50] >> Houston, go ahead. [01:04:50] >> [Inaudible] of the space shuttle. [01:04:52] >> Roger, zero G and I feel fine. [01:04:54] [ Inaudible ] [01:04:55] >> We came in peace for all mankind. [01:04:57] >> It's actually a huge honor to bring [inaudible]. [01:05:00] >> Not because they are easy but because they are hard. [01:05:02] >> [Inaudible] Houston, welcome to space. [01:05:05] [ Music ] [01:05:06] >> Hey. Thanks for sticking around. So today we talked about Dr. Aaron Burton and Dr. Marc Fries about life in the solar system, went off on a couple awesome tangents and had some great conversations just about everything life in the universe and just kind of scratched the surface, really. We can do a bunch more episodes just on this topic alone. But if you cannot wait and need to know this stuff right now, both Aaron and Marc are part of the astromaterials group known as ARES here. You can go to ARES.jsc.nasa.gov to learn all about the different initiatives. Just going on, on astromaterials alone and that's -- you can learn more about OSIRIS-REx there, and you can learn more about meteorites and curation. And even you can learn how to get your hands on a meteorite, if you are dying to get your hands on and study the sample material yourself and maybe search for organic compounds. Otherwise if you just want to focus on just OSIRIS-REx, go to NASA.gov/OSIRIS-REx. On social media if you want to talk to us there, there is the Johnson Space Center accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. [01:06:09] Also astromaterials has their own, NASA ARES on several different accounts. Otherwise you can find them, it's NASA Astromaterials. If you want to use the hashtag #AskNASA on any one of those platforms, any one of those pages, you can submit an idea. Just make sure to mention it's for Houston, We Have a Podcast so we can find it and answer it in a later episode for you or perhaps dedicate an entire episode to it. So this podcast was recorded on November 28th, 2017. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Tracy Calhoun, and Jenny Knots. Thanks to again Dr. Aaron Burton and Dr. Marc Fries for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

Reasoning from Incomplete Knowledge

DTIC Science & Technology

1975-03-01

control , and the copulation explosion. T Why didn’t that haonen in Siberia? S Yeah, there’s probably a pretty stronq interaction between the birth ...some parts are predominantly Hindu but most I think is Moslem. Neither of those sects are particularly strong on birth control . Climate differences...the West Coast, birth control from China, climate and food supplies from the difference between Siberia and China, soil and terrain (the latter was

Yeah Right! Adolescents in the Classroom. Building Success through Better Behaviour Series

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Long, Rob

2005-01-01

Is there more disruptive behaviour in schools today? The simple answer to this often asked question is probably yes. But the reasons lie more outside teenagers than inside. For too many teachers there can be an attitude of: "I was a teenager once, therefore I know what it is like." We all develop in a unique time and the issues are unique to that…

"Oh Yeah--Is She a He-She?" Female to Male Transgendered Pupils in the Formal and Informal Cultures of an English Secondary School

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

O'Flynn, Sarah

2016-01-01

Recent research suggests that trans* pupils are subject to much trans-exclusionary practice in schools and find there is little positive change in attitudes, despite statutory requirements and greater recognition of trans* identities. This paper explores the ways in which two female to male trans* pupils in a London girls' school were excluded in…

"Oh Yeah, I'm Mexican. What Type Are You?" Changing the Way Preservice Teachers Interpret and Respond to the Literate Identities of Children

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Moore, Rita A.; Ritter, Scott

2008-01-01

This writing describes a literacy project between preservice teachers enrolled in a small university in Montana and an inner city school classroom in Kansas. It shows how the preservice teachers and children negotiate meaning at the beginning of the project as well as what the preservice teachers were learning from the children and from their…

HWHAP_Ep2_Your 2017 Astrounaut Class

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-07-14

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 2, your 2017 astronaut class. I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host today. So on this podcast we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, pretty much all the folks that have the coolest information, the stuff you really want to know. Right on the show and talk about everything NASA. So today we're talking about the new astronaut class of 2017 with Anne Roemer. She's the manager of the Astronaut Selection Office here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. And we had a great discussion about the astronaut candidate class of 2017, who they are, what they bring to the table and why these 12 people were chosen out of more than 18,000 applicants. I also had a chance to talk with them all at the same time but I only had a few minutes so I thought it would be fun to play two truths and a lie to get to know them a little bit better. And I'm not adding any fluff when I say that they are a truly outstanding group of people. Not only with their insane qualifications and expertise but also with their personalities. And we'll play that segment today on this episode. So with no further delay let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Ms. Anne Roemer, enjoy. [ Music ] Host: Well, now so Anne you're coming right out of, I guess the frying pan, or out of the fire into the frying pan, that's how it goes a little bit. Yeah, last week was, we actually did the astronaut selection event. We had our 12 new astronauts of the class of 2017 come on and we got to meet them all. In a sense and the media were talking to them, so you are the person that's responsible kind of in a way with your team for selecting those 12 astronauts. So that must have been quite a process, huh? Anne Roemer: It was a ginormous process actually, certainly from the beginning we weren't anticipating that we'd have 18,000, over 18,000 applications. So that was a surprise to us and then certainly reading through all of those and all the various checkpoints along the way to get to the event last week where we announced 12. It was an exciting week for NASA so certainly there was a whole team of people involved in getting us from that 18,000 point down to where we were last week. But it was an honor to participate. Host: So what were those last couple weeks like leading up to last week, to the actual reveal? Was it -- did it get progressively more crazy as you got to that point? Anne Roemer: Certainly, there's always a little bit of a lag between when we know who we've selected and when we actually communicate with the candidates and so that's probably one of the most interesting times because you're excited and you certainly want to share the good news but again when we had decided to do that live announcement, we kind of had a timeline that we had mapped out with them. And then certainly when we added the vice presidential visit to come and help us announce that, which was just really positive for NASA. Host: Yeah. Anne Roemer: But that certainly spooled up the intensity around the event that we hosted last week where we got to share with the world who we picked. Host: For sure and are you kind of glad it's over or is it still not over? Anne Roemer: I'm sleeping a little bit better this week than I was last week so yes, I'm definitely relieved and certainly happy NASA, I think, did an amazing job of picking these 12 and right it was an exciting moment I think for NASA to get to share that with everyone. Host: Yeah, I mean we had to take them around and help them out with their portraits and stuff on the public affairs side. We had to take them around with portraits and let them talk to media. We did it at AMA, so I got to talk with them just a little bit and get to know them a little bit better. And they were just a fantastic group of people. In fact, I got a less than 20 minutes with them in their jam packed day talking to the media to get to know them a little bit so to do that I thought it would be really fun to play two truths and a lie, the game. So they wrote down three statements, two of them are true, one of them is false and then they just start guessing like which one is the lie and get to know them a little bit better. And at that time they had been so busy that they hadn't had a good chance to know each other so they were taking wild guesses but man when I told them the game they were like okay. It's a little bit different from what they were normally playing but they just went right into it. It was a great group of people so I thought it would be really fun to start with that segment playing two truths and a lie with the 12 astronauts. And just kind of get to know them, you get to know their first names a little bit and a little bit more about them but then we'll come back and kind of talk more about who they are and what they do. So producer Alex let's play the wormhole sound effect thingy. [ Music ] Host: Okay welcome to the astronaut class of 2017, it's been a crazy couple of days for you guys what with the announcement coming here, you've had a lot of interviews so far and we've gotten to know just a little bit about you but I thought we'd do something a little bit more fun today by doing two truths and a lie. So if you're not familiar with the game each one of you has a piece of paper and you've written down two true statements about yourself and one false statement. So let's see how well you know each other now and see if you can guess which thing is the lie. I think we'll start by just going in alphabetical order, it seems like this is how we did the announcement and how we've been doing most things. So, Kayla let's start with you, your two truths and a lie. Kayla Barron: Awesome, love going first it's always a good thing here. So my first statement here is I've never lost a game of charades. >> Lie. >> My second statement is I predicted my little sister's birth. And my third statement was I was once part of a competitive wine tasting team. >> Have you ever played charades? >> Can't answer that [inaudible]. >> What do you mean you predicted the birth, like -- >> Can't answer that. >> That there was going to be a baby [cross-talk]. >> Yeah, charades. >> Played charades. >> I think that's the lie, yeah, I think so too. Kayla Barron: You guys got it right, it was based on a truth, I've actually never lost a game of Pictionary, so if anybody is up to challenge that run [cross-talk] so, good job guys [cross-talk]. Host: We definitely need to know more about the competitive wine tasting, that sounds awesome. Kayla Barron: So I went to the University of Cambridge for grad school and it's an interesting place, I call it Disney World for nerds because it's just like not real life. But one of their varsity sports there is blind wine tasting, wherein you do first a white round and then a red round where they pour you six glasses of wine from like wine bottles and bags so you can't see anything about it. And then you have to identify a bunch of like nerdy characteristics like tasting notes, how much alcohol, sugar content, acidity level, where was it grown, etcetera. I will say that I did not make the varsity squad, due to actually drinking my wine at practice as opposed to spitting it out. So but it was a good time for sure. Host: That sounds awesome, okay so next we'll move on to Zena. Zena Cardman: Okay, okay let's see first of all I absolutely hate mushrooms, I will not eat them, I will not touch them. And 2, I am really good at bowling and 3, I'm really good at Etch a Sketching. >> Bowling. >> Bowling. >> Bowling. >> I've never broken 100. Host: So Etch A Sketching, what's the coolest thing you've drawn on an Etch A Sketch? Zena Cardman: I did a portrait of Bob Dillon in high school that was really good and then at the very end -- at the very end I decided to write his name but I forgot the L in Dillion and I had to do it over again. >> No. >> Can you do stair cases [cross-talk]? Host: That's probably the best thing I can do. >> There's no undo button. Zena Cardman: Circles are still tricky though. Host: Okay Raja let's move on to you. Raja Chari: All right so I used to slice deli meat for a living. I met Neil Armstrong when I was like 5 and my flight lead stopped me from flying into North Korea. >> Deli meat. >> Neil Armstrong. >> Deli meat. >> Deli meat. >> Deli meat. Raja Chari: Neil Armstrong. >> Only because I asked yesterday if anyone had met [inaudible]. Host: Okay, how fast can you slice a deli meat? Raja Chari: Pretty fast, my wife and I actually worked at High V for a while and we sliced deli meat in the deli section. She actually lost the tip of her finger on the deli slicer, so yeah but reattached, so. Host: All right, very cool and definitely we need to know the story behind almost flying into North Korea. Raja Chari: So there's a restricted area and there's obviously a lot of airfields in that area and so I was a young wing man and we were doing practice target attacks. And we were split from each other and I was doing a talk on, we call it to an airfield and you know, I was getting really close. Like man I can make out things on the runway and all of a sudden my flight lead realizes that is not a South Korean airfield that I'm describing, that is a North Korean airfield and calls me south before anything worse happened. Yeah, I was -- you know, I'm happy like to go into the scenario describing everything I saw on the ground, which was actually really something over there on the ground. Host: Well, now you have an amazing amount of flight experience, so somethings you're going to learn from, awesome. Okay, so Matt you're up. Matt Dominick: All right, my three things here, I have climbed 10, 14ers in Colorado. I rode on the crew team in college and I won a gift wrapping competition during the holiday season at the Container Store. Host: I really hope the Container thing is true, that would be awesome [cross-talk]. >> What was the first [inaudible]. Matt Dominick: 14ers is the lie. I've climbed zero. I've only driven up them. >> I climbed blind is a pretty funny story. Host: So I'm guessing you have a record for the gift wrapping competition, right? Matt Dominick: No, I was just holiday season I think in D.C. we were with my wife at the Container Store and they happened to have a competition where you could win like a gift certificate and I kept refusing to join but my wife got me into it then I won it. We got an awesome $20 gift certificate. Host: I'm surprised you haven't climbed an 14ers that surprised me. Matt Dominick: Yeah, growing up in Colorado not having climbed a 14er is pretty unusual. Host: Okay, let's move on to Bob. Bob Hines: All right here we go, I've reordered these so your philosophy on which one is a lie [inaudible]. I met my wife in grad school. I went to college on a track scholarship. And I got hit by a truck while flying an airplane. >> That one's true [cross-talk]. Bob Hines: Wife in grad school, didn't meet her there. Host: You got to tell the truck story, man. Bob Hines: So, I was flying a little Cessna 152 on a tiny little air field, uncontrolled airfield up in Pennsylvania. And there's a road literally about 10 feet from the end of the runway, they have these little flashing lights that say yield to low flying aircraft. And I was sitting in the left side of the airplane where you sit when you're by yourself. And I'm coming down final approach and the next thing I know I hear this thump and I'm looking out the side of the airplane at the runway. And I go around and trying to figure out what just happened, I look over my shoulder, I see a black disk bounce and hit the building. I look out and there's no wheel on the left side and so after a little trouble shooting and talking to the guys on the ground at the FBO, they all come out, standing by the runway and I fly by. And they're like okay you have just a strut on your left side and nothing on the right side. So I had no idea what happened at this point, I just know all that stuff flew off the airplane at some point. Anyway landed on the runway, I mean it's a Cessna so you land at 45 knots or something like that, so touched down, it spins around the airplane and we're standing around like a bunch of hillbillies, kind of man that was cool. And this tractor trailer comes driving down, pulls over the ten feet of grass drives up the runway and he goes you hit my truck. And he lifts up the back and we look in, an empty trailer and you can see it skidded right across the top of one of the spars that holds the skin on the top of the truck, I skidded right across it. Kayla Barron: So it was a lie then because you hit the truck. Bob Hines: Not true, that was for insurance purposes. The truth was twisted. Now I was pretty special down there at that airport, 300 feet down so that there's no hazards on the things, so that's all due to me or the truck driver actually. So it was funny though he was calling his insurance company and they go okay we had an accident, they said okay what's the vehicle type? And he looks at me and I'm like Cessna 152. Like we don't have that in our data base. Host: Okay, so let's move on to Woody. Woody Hoburg: All right so in keeping with Matt's theme, I've climbed one of the seven summits. I built model rockets in high school and I can do a standing front foot. >> You're too tall for a front foot, your rotational [inaudible] is too big, no chance [cross-talk] >> Everybody is known for rocket making as a kid [cross-talk]. >> I'd say the summit. >> The summit? >> Yeah. >> Summit. >> Summit. Woody Hoburg: It's the front flips. >> I was going to say if that wasn't true you were definitely [inaudible]. >> Too tall, can you do a back flip? Woody Hoburg: I cannot. Host: Not even off the diving board? Woody Hoburg: Never tried it, it just seems really scary. Host: So what summit did you climb? Woody Hoburg: I did Denali. Host: All right, very cool. Very nice. Okay, Jonny you're up. Jonny Kim: So number 1, I wrote, Enlisting in the Navy was the Best Decision of My Life. Number 2, I got in trouble overseas after being on the phone next to a generator after a mortar attack and not being there for the head count. And I am a hot dog eating champion of my local high school. >> Hot dogs [cross-talk]. >> Hot dogs. >> Hot dogs. Jonny Kim: Hot dogs, yeah that was the lie [cross-talk]. Host: So that generator story? Jonny Kim: I definitely got in trouble with my platoon for -- I was outside on the phone. Host: Oh, man, well glad you're okay. Well, Rob you're up. Robb Kulin: All right, so I inspected a rocket booster while I had liquid oxygen on board. I skied out the summit of Denali wearing a superman cape. I went rock climbing with a broken ankle wearing an astronaut helmet. >> What was the second one? >> Skied off the summit of Denali wearing a superman cape. >> I'll go with that one. Robb Kulin: You guys are too easy. >> So what kind of cape was it? Robb Kulin: It was a lie. Host: What was the last one again? Robb Kulin: I went rock climbing with a broken ankle while wearing an astronaut helmet. Host: Why? >> Why not. Robb Kulin: I didn't realize it was broken, I just kept getting [inaudible]. Yeah one of those kind of astronaut helmets like you see in the costume store and my buddy was like when you go climbing, you have some sort of gag with you, whether it be some sort of silly costume I guess and that day it was the astronaut helmet. Host: Okay, that was awesome, Jasmin you're up. Jasmin Moghbeli: All right, I'm an aunt to an incredibly cute and well-mannered 4 year old little girl. In college I was a member of the varsity basketball, lacrosse, volley ball and cross country teams and I was pushed down a flight of stairs by my brother when was 2. >> You don't seem like you'd be well-behaved. >> I think the second one I think [cross-talk] one of the list. >> 2 is too many, that would be weird. >> Or maybe her niece is not well behaved [cross-talk]. >> I think she did all the sports. >> Was it you that was well-behaved at 4 or? Jasmin Moghbeli: No, no. >> Oh, I thought how many sports in three season? >> Sports, let's go with sports. >> Once she gets that varsity letter she just moves on to the next sport. >> I'm going to go with stairs, I think she pushed her brother down the stairs. >> The werewolf skills coming out. Host: So which one is it? Jasmin Moghbeli: All right, I don't have a 4 year old niece. >> Anymore. >> I pushed her down the stairs. Host: So how did you make time for all those sports? Jasmin Moghbeli: So I played volleyball my freshman year, volleyball and lacrosse my freshman year. Cross country, basketball and lacrosse my sophomore year and then basketball and lacrosse my junior and senior years. Host: Very impressive. >> I believed all of them. Host: Okay, so we have about two more minutes, so let's go on to Loral. >> Other way [inaudible]. Loral O’Hara: Okay, so I eat tacos at least half the days of the week. In middle school I used to get in trouble for talking out loud in class all the time and I once won a no shower marathon. >> Middle school. >> Middle school. >> Middle school. >> Tacos [cross-talk]. >> Was that three days a week or four days a week? Loral O’Hara: Three or four days. >> It's a technicality. Loral O’Hara: Yeah, a technicality. Host: Well welcome back to Houston, you had to pick -- really no shower contest? Loral O’Hara: Yeah, so I rode on the crew team and my freshman year the women's team decided to do a no shower marathon so starting it was like the end of October we just stopped showering, we were going to practice once or twice a day and going to class and everything. >> Classmates. Loral O’Hara: Yeah, it was pretty rough by the end of it we actually called it, there were two of us still left. So I'm a co-champion. >> How many days did you make it? Loral O’Hara: It's like 24 days. >> Wow. Host: Well, you'll be well-prepared for space because you will actually do the wet wipe showers when you're in there, so you'll be ready. >> Yeah, [inaudible]. Host: Okay, so Frank. Frank Rubio: All right, so I started dating my wife in high school, I flew a hand-made Russian aircraft called [inaudible] and I once owned four dogs a rabbit and six guinea pigs at the same time. >> What was the second one? Frank Rubio: I once flew a Russian or a handmade Russian aircraft while I was deployed [cross-talk]. >> Animals. >> No, I think the animals are true. >> Dogs are true. >> Or the wife. >> What was the wife? >> That they dated -- Frank Rubio: I started dating my wife in high school [cross-talk]. >> I believe that one. >> I'll go with the animals. >> Animals, yeah. Frank Rubio: Yeah, no it was a Hungarian aircraft so -- >> Technicality. Host: That's a lot of animals. Frank Rubio: We had three guinea pigs, three female guinea pigs, somehow one of them got pregnant and had babies and so afterwards we had six guinea pigs. The little sneaky guy. Host: Okay, Jessica you're last. Jessica Watkins: So, my guilty pleasure is watching American Ninja Warrior. I eat extremely slowly and I won an Olympic medal [cross-talk]. >> The first one is a lie. >> An Olympic medal in what? >> I think it's the Ninja warrior is awesome [cross-talk]. >> I think she won a medal. >> I think she did too. >> I think the first one is a lie, what was the first one? Jessica Watkins: I watch American Ninja Warrior. >> You're a fast eater -- [cross-talk] she's a slow eater. >> She's taken to go boxes everywhere we've gone [cross-talk]. >> All right, so what do you think. >> So first one or Ninja Warrior. >> I think it's the Ninja Warrior, is the lie [cross-talk]. Jessica Watkins: The lie is that I won an Olympic medal but I appreciate that you guys [cross-talk]. Host: But you did win a couple of rugby championships right? Jessica Watkins: Yes, Host: Very cool, okay. Guys thanks so much for taking the time to play this game, get to know you a little bit better. For our viewers and listeners if you want to know the real biographies of these guys. The real long informative ones, just go to NASA.gov/2017 astronauts. We have the bios of each one of these guys up here and you can learn more about them. So guys it's been a pleasure talking with you today and best of luck on your transition to moving to Houston and to start training, thanks a lot guys. >> [Group response] Thank you. [ Music ] Host: So playing that game we got to know like a little more of a personal side to them and a little bit of the stories, they've obviously had a ton of experiences both personally and professional all over the place. But really I mean, you had like you said over 18,000 applications and you had to narrow it down to 12. So these people are some of the best, the brightest minds in the United States right now so. I thought we'd just go through them and talk more maybe about their qualifications starting like I said in the two truths and a lie game, alphabetically. You know, we announced them alphabetically, let's play the game alphabetically and then go through them all. So Kayla, Lieutenant U.S. Navy and she was the -- she was in the submarine, is that right? Anne Roemer: Yes and she was one of the first women commissioned into the submarine force. Host: Incredible. Anne Roemer: So previously right, only men had been accepted into that unit within the Navy. So she was in the first class of women to be integrated into the submarine force. Host: That is incredible. And her leadership skills probably showed that right, just, I guess she presented herself in a great way during those interviews. Anne Roemer: Absolutely and really they all did right, but to add that extra experience of living and working and leading on a submarine, there are a lot of direct parallels that I think apply to living and working in space in another extreme environment. Host: Yeah, exactly you're in enclosed space, you have only metal around you to look at pretty much and yeah it's hazardous and you have to work with the people that you're in this tight space with. Anne Roemer: Yep. Host: I think one of the questions we asked them when we interviewed them on Skype was you know, what makes you a good person to be trapped in an enclosed space with. And a lot of them said, I pack light or you know, they said I don't take up a lot of space or I'm a quiet sleeper and stuff like that. It was fun. Host: So Zena, close to my heart being a Penn Stater, but she's got quite a resume going for her PhD of Geo Science at Penn State University and a couple Antarctic expeditions. Anne Roemer: Yeah, she had some field experience in Antarctica. Zena is as you probably noticed if you watched any of the coverage from last week, probably never goes anywhere without a smile on her face. It was probably one of the best phone calls that we have made. Because you can tell she was just so happy and so overwhelmed and just so moved so. Host: Yeah, I think personality has got to be one of the driving factors to be an astronaut. Right because you know, referring back to that statement you have to be in an enclosed environment with people for a long periods of time, you have to make sure you have a good personality and that you're going to get along. Anne Roemer: Sure we're looking right, for a variety of skill sets but certainly one of the questions that always comes up is right, every person has quirks to their personally but can you modulate as you need to in those environments? Host: So and another part I guess is just the diversity of the candidates. So we talked about Kayla Barron from the U. S. Navy, work in a submarine. Zena Cardmon, more of a scientist. Raja Chari he is a pilot, a U.S. pilot he was part of the U.S. Navy test pilot school and was flying F 35s. Is that the one, I can't remember is that the one that has the vertical take-off and landing one? Anne Roemer: That's the new and out of my area of expertise right, that's a new aircraft that's coming online for all of the service branches and I think each service branch has some modifications to suit their various platforms but certainly one of the newest and probably most cutting edge pieces of technology coming into the military and he's been responsible for leading a significant portion of the testing efforts around that in relation to the U.S. Airforce. Host: So he'll be good with kind of familiarizing himself with brand new space craft and figuring stuff out, learning the quirks. I know coming up here we got some new spacecraft that the astronauts are going to fly, right. We got the SpaceX crew dragon and the Boeing Star liner. They're actually going to be flying these brand-new vehicles on top of other things. You know, you got the Orion capsule too so he's going to be very good probably at, a good person to pilot that. He also has a Master's degree from MIT in aeronautics and astronautics. So he's very familiar with the skies and beyond, I guess. Anne Roemer: Yeah, we hope so. Host: Okay so Matt Dominick, a Lt. Commander in the U.S. Navy, also some engineering experience and a pilot serving in FA-18 E pilot strike fire squadron. 1,600 hours of flight time over several combat missions. We've got quite a few pilots I guess, I think, I forget the number, 4? Anne Roemer: 3, we hired 3 pilots in this class. So you have Matt, Matt certainly I think will add a lot to this class as well. One of the things that probably isn't on his resume but we had the pleasure of learning about through the interview processes, also he's a really great cooks, so. I'm sure that will enhance the experience for his classmates. Host: For sure have you seen some of the things that Jack Fisher is making onboard too? He takes pictures of them, he makes like crazy burritos and all kinds of stuff. Anne Roemer: Yeah, so Matt should be well prepared for that and certainly right, we were fortunate to have him here last week for the event. When we notified him he was actually onboard an aircraft carrier on deployment and so it was questionable for a time as to whether he could get off the carrier to be here in Houston to meet the rest of his classmates. So again, very lucky that we had the support of the Navy to help us get him here in person. Host: Absolutely, I remember so we were going through the Skype interviews right after they got selected, we wanted to interview them and get a couple of words from them before they came on because we knew you know, their schedules were just going to be so hectic we wanted to make sure we could ask them plenty of questions in a reasonable amount of time. And he actually had to cancel the interview that I was going to do with him because he had a mission. And so we rescheduled and I think Dan was the one who ended up interviewing him. But like you said it was really nice that he was able to accommodate his schedule for us. Another person, Bob Hines, I guess very special to us because he's from the Johnson Space Center right. A lot of people here knew him and were wide-eyed I guess when he went on the stage, oh my gosh there's Bob. Anne Roemer: Yeah, he was out second pilot that we picked out of the group and yeah is what we would call a local in that he already lived here and was part of the NASA family so certainly excited to make that transition from being an instructor pilot out at Ellington field into astronaut corp. Host: Absolutely and he's going to -- like you said, we have these pilots here because they're the ones that will be flying the new vehicles and it's very exciting. So Woody Hoburg is from actually Pennsylvania, actually talking with him he went to a high school that competed with my high school. Also actually Bob Hines went to that same high school. Anne Roemer: Yeah, they did, isn't that, out of 18,000 that's kind of a small world fact right there. Host: From the same high school, is crazy. Anne Roemer: It's pretty awesome. Host: Yeah, it is pretty awesome. Undergraduate degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from MIT, PhD in electrical and computer science from the University of California Berkeley. And he's an assistant professor at MIT. Very smart man. Anne Roemer: Very smart indeed, and again right having that academic perspective I think it lends him to have kept up with kind of some of the cutting edge trends in engineering in terms of right, one of his main roles at MIT is to mentor a group of students working in a lab so I think he comes with some very sharp and hands on engineering skills. Host: Exactly and very diverse too, aeronautical, astronautical, electrical and computer science. Anne Roemer: Yeah, pretty much covers it all, right I mean. Host: He'll be able to do it all, all right this next guy, Jonny Kim, super cool, enlisted in the U.S. Navy as a Navy seal, over 100 combat missions, earned the silver star and bronze star also graduated with a degree in math from the University of San Diego and got his MD at Harvard Medical school, he's a doctor and a Navy Seal, crazy. Anne Roemer: Yeah, he is you know, a great patriot and right his time in the Navy was recognized with a silver star as well as a bronze star with valor. So certainly an American hero. Host: Truly amazing and the fact that these I mean as we're going through I'm realizing everyone has got -- they don't just do one thing, they do many, many different things. I think coming up here I guess I'll skip around but I know Loral she got a degree in aerospace engineering from University of Kansas, Master's degree in propulsion and fluid dynamics from Purdue but then she works at the Ocean and Graphic Institute over I think in Massachusetts. But she also did the NASA flight program when she was a student and worked as an intern at JPL. Anne Roemer: Yeah, I think honestly with candidates through this selection cycle and others it's an interesting tidbit to note how many of them participated in some type of NASA educational program along the way. We hear a lot of that throughout the interviews whether that's a NASA internship or a NASA cooperative education position or what the reduced gravity opportunity. Sometimes it's some of the graduate research fellowships that NASA sponsors. That for me is interesting to hear how those experiences early on in a person's right life and career trajectory can have a big impact on them. And that they come back and pursue careers that kind of align with some day working at NASA and then ultimately we have a number of them that got picked for the astronaut corps. Host: Yeah and Dr. Jessica Watkins. Also one of those people right, PhD and it says geology here but I know talking with her planetary geology at UCLA. She's kind of an expert in Mars. She actually worked, her work experience includes time at JPL and Ames. She was working on I want to say Curiosity, was she? Anne Roemer: Yeah, it was Curiosity. Host: Yeah, it was Curiosity, how about that. Anne Roemer: Yeah, I mean that's another good example right to have that experience on the research and the robotic side of NASA's missions and then bring that into the human space flight element. You know, certainly that's helpful because those two go hand in hand. As far as NASA reaching you know, farther and farther out into the solar system. Host: Absolutely, and you know, we got folks that worked at NASA and have various experiences there including Jessica Watkins and Loral O'Hara but we also have Rob Coolin [phonetic] who is from SpaceX actually. And huge fan of the cold, he is from Alaska and he went to let's see I think the University of Denver to get his master's and PhD in material science and engineering. Wait he got a PhD in material science and engineering from University of California, San Diego. So a little bit warmer there but he also did, he was also an ice driller in Antarctica. So the man loves the cold but he works for SpaceX too. Anne Roemer: Yeah, and right he's been working and directly responsible for multiple parts, right. That are on the SpaceX vehicle. And who knows there's a chance that he could fly on the SpaceX. Host: Yeah, I'm sure he's rooting for that for sure. Anne Roemer: So yeah I think that will be again, I think when you look at the important role that the astronauts play with the development of any new vehicle, whether that's NASA's Orion or the commercial vehicles. Certainly having Rob's expertise having been so hands on with SpaceX we I'm sure that will be very valuable to the office. Host: Exactly, yeah and just talking -- he was laughing extra hard I think during that who thing. And like I said he had one of my favorite two truths and a lie was that crazy cape story or that astronaut helmet, broken story. I'm saying he was a very nice man. Next person, Jasmin Moghbeli, Marine Corp, she was born in Germany, considers New York her home and graduated MIT with a degree in aerospace engineering, information technology and I think she was also -- yeah serving as an H1 test pilot. Quality assurance at the avionics [inaudible] is she also a pilot, yeah there you go 1,600 hours. Anne Roemer: Yeah, she's a helicopter pilot. Host: Helicopter, very cool. Anne Roemer: So that she is our only helicopter pilot in the group this time and has had a wide range of experience. You highlighted MIT and I think right we have a number of candidates that have either worked at MIT or degrees from MIT so. Host: Super smart and they all have the -- I mean going back to this, not only is she a test pilot and is flying helicopters but she also has advanced degrees in engineering and you know, naval post graduate school, amazing. So Dr. Francisco Rubio, just call him Frank Rubio, let's see undergraduate degree in international relations from the You know, military academy. Doctor in medicine from uniformed services, University of Health Sciences. But he's also a battalion surgeon in third battalion tenth special forces group airborne with the U.S. Army and he also has some flight time, 1,100 hours in a helicopter and some sky diving experience as well. So like I said let's do it all, so he's a second doctor right along with Jonny Kim. Anne Roemer: Yes, and right again if you look at Frank's block of experienced he brings a lot of different things to the table, certainly the helicopter experience. You know, I believe it's over 600 parachute jumps, that's a lot at least for me who's done zero. Host: I did one and I was very, very scared the whole time. Anne Roemer: Yeah, no I will stay with my zero number. And then obviously you know, the time practicing as a medical doctor with the army so yeah we ended up with 12 people that brought not just one thing to the table but they all brought right, a bunch of unique things. Host: Exactly, tell me how the interview process works, so you obviously selected 12 people but I had to get weaned down from there, isn't it the first round of interviews is a couple hundred and it's calls right, is that how it goes? Anne Roemer: No, so we actually, we whittle down the applications by first weeding out the people that apply who are not qualified. Host: Okay, so that's the easy part right. Anne Roemer: Yeah, in a sense. Interestingly enough over time we have almost always consistently had about the same percentage of people who apply who aren't qualified. Oh, okay, we've heard through various sources that people want the rejection letter. Right to say that they've applied to be a NASA astronaut. So, we typically see it -- a fair chunk of applications from people right that may have a history degree and not a technical degree but want to apply. Host: Yeah. Anne Roemer: So that's our first kind of check point, at that point then we go through the qualified applications who have the right degrees and the right number of years of experience and start you know, whittling down from there. Ultimately we end up inviting 120 individuals for the first round of interviews. Host: Okay and they come here? Anne Roemer: And yes we bring them here and we interview them in person and that's where they start doing some just initial medical testing as well. And then ultimately after that round of interviews wraps up we elected this time to bring 50 back for a second interview. Okay, and so it's out of that group of 50 that we selected the 12. Host: So from 50 down to 12, and is the second round of interviews a little bit more intensive, what do you do differently in the second round? Anne Roemer: Well, yes the interview right kind of follows a normal interview tract, the interview with the astronaut selection board, certainly the intensity I think gets added in that that's where we do more extensive medical testing. Behavioral health testing, team reaction exercises, some individual performance exercises as well are kind of all wrapped into that second -- they're here almost for a week, for the second interview. Host: Wow, okay and then from there you have to narrow it down to 12. Anne Roemer: That's perhaps the hardest part. Host: I was just about to ask. That sounds like it's got to be the hardest part because if you narrow down 18,000 obviously you know the folks that aren't qualified, that's you know, a decent chunk but you said it's the same percentage, right. So that still means you have a large number. Anne Roemer: We had a huge number. Host: Of people that are qualified to be astronauts and you had to wean through them but still going down from 50 very, very you know, they're probably fantastic people. You have to get down to 12. Anne Roemer: We did yeah and honestly that was very difficult for the board and we met some amazing Americans throughout this process and so they're you know, in the end you know you're forced with a decision based on the needs of the office and kind of a mission profile. We kind of had settled on the number 12 and yeah, so the consensus of the board you know, that's where it goes. Host: So I mean these 12 astronauts that we have in this class of 2017, sort of in general what did they do or say to sort of standout from those 50? Anne Roemer: You know, that's in one way that would be an easy thing to answer and just say they did everything right. They had everything we were looking for. They communicated effectively in terms of the actual interviews with the board. I mean, yeah you could get into specifics and if you look at their skill set right, they each brought more than one thing to the table based on their backgrounds and their experience and things of that nature. Host: Yeah, everyone had you know, they didn't just like I said they didn't just do one thing, they didn't have one degree, they had a degree and then they did this other thing. And then also kind of dabbled in this on the side. Or had a weird job over here, you know, an ice driller for Rob that is crazy you know, but it's part of being in the harsh environment. And I'm sure that's part of the reason he got selected. Anne Roemer: And right, they all and again with the final 50 right, you're talking to some just amazing people and they pursued careers and interests that they were passionate about. Host: Yeah. Anne Roemer: And when you like what you do already it's easy to talk and communicate about that effectively and kind of see yourself transitioning into a new role. Host: Passion is absolutely key and you can see it with the folks that are on orbit now is how much they love being an astronaut and love being in space. I mean personally I can totally see myself there but I would be one of those resumes, you throw out. Anne Roemer: Yeah, and personally I'm happy with my feet on the ground, I'm good where I am. Host: So we selected 12 astronauts for 2017 and there's got to be a reason for that right, we're gearing up for something, what is this class preparing for in the future? Anne Roemer: Well, certainly I think the end goal is we hope we're on a trajectory to someday send humans to Mars. I think that is where NASA as a whole kind of hopes we're heading. More immediately than that though we're certainly going to continue to fly to the International Space Station, we have three new vehicles that are hopefully coming online as you've mentioned. So you know, I think that opportunities are limitless right now, so whether this class ends up going to station for their first mission and somewhere beyond that for their second mission you know, that's yet to be seen. But certainly lots of options are on the table which is exciting. Host: Yeah, I know a lot of the astronauts now in current classes they're training for -- well, you know, you got a couple all over the place some of the astronauts coming up for space station expeditions are obviously studying a lot of the space station systems and training for that. We also have a cadre of astronauts that are training for commercial crew vehicles. You know, like Sonny Williams, Eric Beau [phonetic] those guys there's training for the Boeing Star Liner and the SpaceX crew dragon. I'm sure we're going to see these guys have to do it all. Right they're going to have to train for those space station, like you said, those space station missions, they're going to have to be super familiar with the commercial vehicles that we have. But then also be fully ready to go on a deep space mission with Orion. Anne Roemer: Yeah. Host: They're going to have to do it all and I wonder, I mean some of the more recent classes like the 2009 class is -- they've been starting to fly recently right, so Jack Fisher from the 2009 class is up there now. [inaudible] and Reed Wiseman flew in 2013 or 14, it took them somewhere between five and ten years to get ready for the International Space Station, can you imagine for missions beyond. Anne Roemer: Yeah, we have I think at least one or two of the 2013 class assigned, so that's right it's becoming real for them as well. Host: Yeah, exactly becoming real, I love that so just real quick before we let you go what are they in for, for the I guess right now when they come on board in August, they're going to be astronaut candidates and they have two years of training to do before they're considered astronauts, what's that going to be like? Anne Roemer: So, it will be just what you said, right, they'll be learning a lot from right now again with continuing to fly on board the International Space Station, Russian language is a component of that, of the training program. Learning how to do space walks at least the fundamentals of it and getting to dive in the neutral buoyancy laboratory, the big swimming pool. Learning the elements of robotics to use the robotic arm on station. And just basic International Space Station systems training so all of those pieces from a technical perspective they'll gain at least the fundamental in during this two year training window. I think another key piece of the training program now also comes from the fact that given the astronauts are kind of often the spokes people for NASA. They're out and about, people recognize the blue suits. Within that two years we also familiarize them with all of the other exciting things that are happening at NASA and all of the other centers. So we really want them to be well-versed on what's going on at NASA as a whole, not just in the human space flight portfolio. So that's another important piece of their training as well as getting out and getting to visit each of the ten NASA field centers. Host: Very true, I'm very excited to hear what they're going to be doing for the training and follow along in that journey as they go on. I know it's been a pleasure watching the 2013 astronauts but also in the 2009 astronauts too because you know, they're flying so it's been quite a ride and I can't wait for them to come onboard. But, I think that's about all the time we have, thank you so much Anne for coming on. For the listeners if you want to know more or you have a suggestion of what we should be talking about on this show, stay tuned until after the music to learn how to submit your ideas and thanks so much for coming on. It's been amazing but it's also kind of cool to know the amount of effort it takes to find good people and bring them into the space program. And after meeting them and reading about their accomplishments, you can see why it's so important to do that. So we need the best and brightest for space flight. So thanks again Anne Roemer for both your work but also coming on the show, it's been a pleasure. Anne Roemer: Thank you. [ Music ] Host: Hey thanks for sticking around, so today we talked with Anne Roemer about the new astronaut class of 2017. We went through all of the 12 astronauts really and just kind of skimmed the surface of all of their qualifications and what great people they are. If you want to know more just go to NASA.gov/2017astronauts. That's right we have a whole web page dedicated to those astronauts and their biographies, what they've accomplished so far. And trust me it is truly, truly amazing to go through that. If you want to follow along on social media we'll be updating some of their training and as they come aboard here in the next few months, so if you go to Facebook obviously the NASA account will be talking about this, but also the NASA Johnson space center as they come aboard here in Texas. On Twitter that's @NASA if you want to look at the agency account or @NASA underscore Johnson that's us and Instagram you can also go to @NASAJohnson we'll be talking about all the same stuff. If you go and use the hashtag ask NASA on any one of those platforms you can submit an idea and we'll make sure to visit it in one of the later podcasts here. This podcast was recorded on June 14, 2017. The two truths and a lie segment was recorded on June 8, 2017. And thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stoll[phonetic] and Brandy Dean for helping out with this episode. Thanks again to Ms. Anne Roemer for coming on the show. So once again this show is intended to be weekly and we will go answer some of your questions on Ask Nasa, soon but we do have a bank of episodes that we're working on so it may be a couple episodes until we get to that but trust me it will be well worth it to submit some of your questions because we may make a whole episode out of answering them. So we'll see you next week.

Ep7_Total Eclipse over America

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-08-18

>> Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the nasa johnson space center, episode 7: total eclipse over america. I m gary jordan and i ll be your host today. So this is the podcast where we bring in the experts-- nasa scientists, engineers, astronauts-- all to tell you the coolest stuff about nasa. So today we re talking about eclipses with mark matney. He s a space debris scientist here at the nasa johnson space center in houston texas, and he also has degrees in astronomy and space physics, and is an avid eclipse aficionado. We had a great discussion about what an eclipse is, some of the history of eclipses, and some of the science that we ve learned and continue to learn from them. This is an exciting conversation, especially because on august 21, 2017, a total solar eclipse will sweep across america. Mark and i talked about where the eclipse will pass through and how you ll be able to see it. They don t happen very often-- the last time a total solar eclipse happened over the states was back in 1991, and we won t see another until 2024. Anyway, we ll get into all that good stuff during this episode. So with no further delay, let s go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with dr. Mark matney. Enjoy. [ Music ] >> t minus five seconds and counting. Mark. [ Indistinct radio chatter ] >> houston, we have a podcast. [ Music ] >> all right, well, mark, thank you for coming on the podcast today. Perfect timing, because very soon we re going to have a total solar eclipse that s going to pass over the united states. And so i think this is a good chance for us to sit down and talk about eclipses. And you went above and beyond for this one, mark, because you have a lot of different things. I mean, we re talking a lot of science, we re talking a long and detailed history of eclipses. You know, this is not just a, ooh, look at that. Pretty eclipse. No, nasa s going all out for this-- is that fair to say? >> Well, i think this is-- i mean, eclipses have been part of human history as far back as we can record. People have been fascinated, scared, terrified by eclipses. >> Oh, sure. >> And a lot of important scientific discoveries have been driven by eclipses. I think today-- we re doing some science today, but much of the important science was done in the past. But this kind of links us in some sort of way to those early scientists who were trying to puzzle out the mysteries of the universe by using this amazing sight in the sky. So we have some science that s going on, we have some citizen science that s going on, and there s going to be a whole lot of people traveling to see this eclipse. In fact, i was reading that this eclipse is the first cross continent eclipse across the united states since the interstate system was built. >> Oh, wow. >> And so we might see one of the largest migrations of americans in a short period of time that we ve ever seen. [ Laughter ] because there s going to be a lot of people, perhaps tens of millions of people, traveling to see this eclipse. >> That s very true, and they re all going to be, i mean, closer to that nice, thin line-- we re talking about that path of totality, and we ll get into that really shortly, but you know, let s go and start at the very beginning, right? So we re talking about a total solar eclipse-- this is great-- passing over the united states. But what is that? What is a total solar eclipse? >> So a total eclipse is when the disk of the sun is completely covered by the moon. So the moon s size is maybe slightly larger than the sun, so we can get complete coverage. This particular eclipse is going to be about two and a half minutes of totality. Some eclipses are as high as seven minutes. Some of them are just a few seconds. >> And it s just the way things are aligning? >> Well, it turns out that the moon is actually not on a perfectly circular orbit. It s in a slightly elliptical orbit. So sometimes it s a little closer, and sometimes it s a little farther. >> Oh, i see. >> And so [ indistinct ] a little farther, it doesn t quite cover the surface of the sun. And what you end up with is a narrow ring all around. That s called an annular eclipse. And if the moon s a little larger-- in other words, a little closer, it appears a little larger in the sky, you get a total eclipse. And sometimes we actually have what s called a hybrid eclipse where you get an annular eclipse, but the mountains on the moon make it so it s actually a broken ring in the sky. It s so close, because actually, the mountains peeking up cover part of that sun ring. >> So can you see some of the sun peeking through those alleys, i guess? >> That s right, yes. >> Oh, interesting. >> And then that one, turns out if you could get higher in the altitude, in a balloon or plane, you might see a total eclipse in those kinds. But that s a special kind of eclipse that s actually quite rare. >> Wow. >> And then we also have a partial eclipse, and that s what-- it turns out this eclipse is interesting-- as far as i can tell, anyone in any of the 50 united states-- weather permitting-- should be able to see a partial eclipse, including alaska and hawaii. The partial eclipse is where the disk of the moon covers part of the sun but doesn t actually get to-- it s off to one side. >> Okay. >> And so you-- we re going to get a pretty good partial eclipse here from houston, but i think everybody, like i said, somewhere in the united states, one of the 50 states, should be able to see a partial eclipse. >> That ll be cool. >> So by the way, it s august 21st-- we didn t say the date. >> Yeah, so august 21st. And this will come out august 18th, so this ll be like-- >> oh, okay-- perfect. >> This ll be right next to it, yeah, absolutely. So a partial eclipse-- is there-- how-- is there a way that is very apparent to observe that? Like, will the sky get a little bit darker, or-- >> it depends on the percentage. When it s like about 50%, it s hard to notice. But once you get on to 60, 70, 80, 90%, the sky takes on an unusual color. And in fact, that s one of the things i m going to recommend eclipse observers-- just kind of note how the sky changes color, because it s a very interesting phenomenon. >> Yeah. >> But unless it s really-- in ancient times, people did not even notice a partial eclipse unless it was like 80, 90% because they started to see the sun dim, and they would look up at the sun and see there was no longer a disk in the sky. >> Wow. Okay, so from here in houston, what are we expecting percentage-wise? >> Well, i tried-- it s about somewhere around 70%. I don t know the exact area, but there s several tables. Also, that s another thing, is where you are, where the maximum eclipse changes on the clock. So there are computer resources where you can look and put in your location or your city and find out when the maximum eclipse is and how much. >> Oh, okay. Very cool. That s a lot of good stuff. All right, so that s 70%. We ll be able to see-- >> something like 70, yeah. >> A somewhat noticeable change in the sky, then, at least here from houston. That s really cool. So yeah, you said total versus partial. This is the solar eclipse, though, right? >> Right. >> This is when the moon is going in between the earth and the sun. >> Right. >> Like you said, they re relatively the same size in the sky, just based on distance and size, and so it only blocks off this tiny little strip of shadow that s going to go across the united states. And it goes-- you said it happens quite often, but just i guess at different parts of the world. >> Correct. >> It just so happens that it s going to line up this time going from coast to coast. >> And sometimes it s an annular, and sometimes-- but it turns out we get from three to five eclipses, solar eclipses, every year. >> Oh, okay. >> Which is actually kind of surprising. >> We meaning the earth. >> Someone on the earth, in other words, can see an eclipse. We actually have fewer-- there s another kind of eclipse called a lunar eclipse, and the lunar eclipse is when the earth gets between the moon and the sun. >> Right. >> And so as the moon moves into the shadow, it starts to turn dark, and sometimes has an interesting red color. >> Yeah. >> It turns out there are actually fewer of those than solar eclipses. >> Really? >> But because a whole hemisphere can see it, they re much-- you can see them much more often than solar eclipses. >> Oh, that-- okay. >> Because you re looking up in the sky and seeing the moon eclipse, so anybody on that side of the earth can see it-- weather permitting, of course. >> Wow. Why is it that color, though? >> Well, that s an interesting phenomenon. As you know, the sky is blue from the scattering of particles in the atmosphere-- it scatters the blue light. But the red is transmitted just like we see in a red sunset. Well, the earth s atmosphere actually refracts the red light, and so if you were standing on the moon during a lunar eclipse, the earth, of course, would block the sun, but you would see this red ring around the earth, which is the atmosphere refracting the light of the sun. >> So that s the red ring of the earth refracting off the surface of the moon? >> No, no, it s-- the light is coming through the atmosphere and refracting slightly to your position on the moon. >> Oh. >> So you would see this narrow, narrow red glowing ring around the earth. >> Oh, wow. >> So it s-- but of course, no one s ever seen that. >> Yeah. >> Maybe someday when we have a base on the moon. >> Oh, and so wait-- okay, so this is assuming that-- yeah, you re assuming that you are an observer on the moon. >> You re an astronaut standing on the moon, right. >> I see, and there s a red ring. So what about the lunar eclipse-- the perception from the earth? Doesn t a lunar eclipse-- the moon looks a little orange? >> Yeah, it s orange-ish, sometimes. It actually depends on-- it depends on what s happening in the atmosphere. >> Oh, okay. >> For instance, i saw an eclipse in 1982. We were expecting the red moon, but in fact, the moon looked charcoal gray. And that was right after the el chichon volcano in mexico erupted. And so the dust from the volcano had changed the dust in the atmosphere, so we didn t get much red. >> Oh. >> So it actually-- you never know what you re going to see when you see a lunar eclipse, but they re often red. And again, that s the red light that is bent by the earth s atmosphere and shines on the moon. >> Yeah, and it s reflecting-- interesting. So it s all entirely about perception, then, it s about the-- so you re a person on the earth, and this is what you perceive from the perspective of earth. If you were outside floating millions of miles away just observing it from afar, it would just look like the earth and the moon-- the moon wouldn t look a certain color. >> Well, you could see the color, because it s lit up with that color. Let me-- let s change it around. Let s say you were on the moon looking at the earth during a solar eclipse. And we have some photographs from the iss of previous eclipses, and you actually see a-- you can actually see the dark shadow. You can t see the sharp edge of the shadow, but you see this fuzzy black thing on the surface of the earth. And so you would see-- but instead of being the whole earth swallowed up, you just see this black fuzzy spot moving across the earth from space. >> Interesting. >> So hopefully-- it depends on where the iss will be at the time of the eclipse, but hopefully they ll be able to photograph it from-- they probably will not be in the eclipse path, but they could look down on the earth and see the shadow, hopefully, of the eclipse. >> Yeah, i think-- i think they are predicting that the iss is going to be somewhere over canada but will have a nice view of the states whenever it s actually the solar eclipse. >> It would be very, very coincidental if we happened to fly through the shadow, because the shadow is very narrow. It could happen, but i mean-- >> the odds are against us. >> The odds are against us. So a lunar eclipse happens at the full moon. >> Okay. >> When, of course, the sun is on the other side of the earth and the moon is-- if you re standing on the earth, the sun is behind you, because it s nighttime, and you see the-- and a solar eclipse happens at a new moon, when the moon is-- you can t really see it in the sky, because you re seeing the dark side of the moon. >> So you ll never see a crescent moon in a lunar eclipse? >> No, no, it s definitely a full moon, so as full as it gets. Another thing is lunar and solar eclipses are often paired, because that tilt of the moon s orbit, the point when it crosses the earth-sun orbit plane, is on both sides. And so usually we get an accompanying lunar eclipse with a solar eclipse. And in fact, the accompanying lunar eclipse for this eclipse is on august 7th, and will be visible from europe, africa, asia, and australia. >> Oh, okay. Well, there you go. >> Or was visible, i guess. >> August 7th, yeah. I guess-- aw. >> You want me to say that again? [ Laughter ] >> if we could go back in time okay, so i mean, that s kind of from the perspective of earth, right? We ve got solar eclipses, and when the moon is in between us here on earth and the sun, and then the opposite for the lunar eclipse. In general, if you had to give like a general overview, where else in the universe do eclipses happen? >> Everywhere. >> How about that. >> Anywhere where you have bodies moving around, one will often eclipse the view of another. But usually, what you-- you won t get to see the amazing sight on earth, because it s very rare that the object eclipsing looks in the sky the same size as the sun. >> Oh. >> So we know, for instance, there are eclipses caused by jupiter s moons as it orbits jupiter, and you can see the shadow on the surface of jupiter-- or the clouds, actually, of jupiter. >> Right. >> And in fact, there was a fellow named ole r mer-- if i m pronouncing correctly-- back in the 1600s that first detected the finite speed of light by looking at the timing of those eclipses on jupiter. So that s one of those science things that eclipses have allowed us to do. >> That s amazing-- just by looking at shadows across the universe, you can get all this crazy science. >> And sometimes-- i know we ve done occultations of stars, where a planet moves between us and the starlight of a star, and by measuring that star, we ve seen, like-- we ve found the rings of uranus, as the star would twinkle or would blink out just before uranus crossed the star. >> Oh. >> So you can actually do things like look for difficult to see rings, or also, as the light comes through the atmosphere, sometimes you can see the absorption of different chemicals in the atmosphere of the planet. >> And then understand the composition of the planet itself. >> Exactly. >> That s amazing. >> Let me add one thing we hadn t talked about. >> Yeah, sure. >> I found an interesting statistic, and it said that if you picked a random spot on the earth and you just stayed right there, you would see a solar eclipse about once every 375 years, on average. >> Okay, so you should move a little bit. >> Yeah, well-- you re not following. [ Laughter ] so during a normal person s long lifetime-- say, 70 years-- we re looking at a 20-25% chance that you would sometime in your lifetime see an eclipse, a total eclipse of the sun. So yes, it s rare, but not totally unknown. >> Yeah. >> So i just know that one never comes by my house, so i have to go chase it down. [ Laughter ] >> well, that s the great thing, is we have nasa-- we folks at nasa are actually looking at this stuff and making predictions. We know exactly where it s going to be on august 21st. >> That s correct, that s right. >> Yeah, so that kind of will help you see it a little bit, too. [ Laughter ] i think one of my favorites, though, when it comes to eclipses across the universe, is kepler, right? So if you think about-- you said occultations as one of them. That s when something passes in front of a star and changes the light that we re receiving. >> Right. >> That s how we are detecting planets outside of our solar system, correct? >> That s correct, yeah. The kepler mission is looking at a large group of stars and monitoring them constantly. And it has very, very sensitive instruments, so they can look at very small dips in the light as a planet-- a previously unknown planet-- transits the face of that star. And we ve been able-- and when they see them repeating, they can work out the relative sizes of the planets and their period, and work out where they are in orbit around that star. And we ve seen-- i don t know what the count is-- a thousand? >> Yeah, yeah. We keep finding more and more. >> There s a bunch of them. So this is actually one of the most interesting discoveries, i think, astronomers have made in the last several years, is that our galaxy is full of stars with planets. And it s pretty exciting-- it s kind of star trek stuff. >> It is! Especially just recently, the discovery of the trappist-1 system. >> Yes, indeed. >> And those-- we re talking about earth-like planets, and some of which are in what we like to call the goldilocks zone, right? >> That s right. >> And that s-- you know, water doesn t freeze, it doesn t-- >> that s right, it s not too hot, not too cold. >> Not too cold, right, and liquid water can exist. And that s conditions for life, and it s very exciting. >> It is. >> That s what we re looking for, right-- life outside of the universe. >> And i ll also mention we also have transits here, just like what we see with kepler, of the planets mercury and venus, which are inside the orbit of earth. And we recently had a venus transit visible from the us. >> Yeah, 2012, right?? >> That s right, i think it was 2012. And i ve also seen mercury transits as well. Those have an interesting history, because scientists in the 18th century were trying-- they d figured out the relative distance to the different planets, but they didn t know an absolute distance. And they were actually going to use different observers on the earth to measure the transit of venus to try and get an absolute scale. And so that was the cutting edge science in the 18th century. >> Wow. [ Laughter ] >> but so that s another point where transits and eclipses have been an important part of the history of science. >> Amazing. I mean, that s kind of a big theme here, right, especially for eclipses, is the science that we can get from observing these phenomena. >> That s right. >> So i mean, from here on the ground, what are some of the things that we can learn-- and i guess in the instance of a solar eclipse, but you know, eclipses in general-- what are some of the things that we can learn from studying these? >> Well, let s kind of go through some of the discoveries that were made with eclipses. >> Sure. >> So from ecl-- we all look up at the sun and see a bright disk. That s called the photosphere. It s very, very bright, and we ll talk about that a little bit. That s the part we re familiar with. It s about 10,000 degrees fahrenheit-- it s nice and hot. But during eclipses, astronomers notice some red layer-- a thin red layer around the sun. And that s known as the chromosphere. And that was discovered by eclipses, and it turns out chromosphere is due to emissions from atomic hydrogen in the sun s atmosphere. >> Okay. >> And so if you-- the soho spacecraft sometimes show-- i mean-- the soho spacecraft show-- is constantly monitoring the sun. And one of its instruments is a hydrogen alpha filter, and you can see what that chromosphere looks like. It s a very thin layer of the sun, again, that we discovered by looking at eclipses. The next section-- oh, by the way, some scientists-- in 1868, there was a new instrument that was developed called the spectroscope. And the spectroscope splits light into its component colors. And they had discovered that there were specific lines, almost like a fingerprint, that defined-- that were unique to each chemical, to each chemical element. >> Okay. >> And so there were-- some scientists were very excited to use the spectroscope to look at the eclipse. And in the chromosphere, they saw some lines from an element that they had never seen before. And they couldn t figure out what it was. So one of the scientists named it after the greek word for the sun-- helios. They named it helium. >> Oh! [ Laughter ] >> and it was several decades before helium was finally isolated and studied on the earth, but it was first discovered in the sun s atmosphere. >> How about that. That s-- is it called spectroscopy? >> Spectroscopy, yeah. They use a spectroscope for spectroscopy. >> Yeah, yeah, and studying the-- i guess there s little gaps in the light, and they look like gaps in the-- >> sometimes there s bright lines, sometimes there s dark lines. >> Okay. >> It depends on the situation. But the point is these lines are like a fingerprint. And that s how we understand the components of stars millions of lightyears away. We can-- >> so you said photosphere, and then you discovered the chromosphere, right? >> Chromosphere. >> So what s the difference between those? >> Well, the chromosphere is actually a very thin layer-- it s actually-- starts as cooler than the photosphere, and then it heats up again. >> Ooh. >> Solar astronomers are always trying to figure out the exact details, but what gets interesting is when you look up at the eclipse when it s total eclipse, there s what looks like a halo, or a garland, or a crown around it, and that s called the corona. So the chromosphere s a transition between the hot photosphere and the much hotter corona. And the corona is up to-- it s more than 100 times hotter than the photosphere. It s very, very hot. >> Wow. >> And that s, like i said, this halo that you see around the sun. That is actually very important-- to monitor that part of the sun-- in predicting solar storms. >> Oh. >> And solar storms affect things like satellites and our communication and our power systems. And so there are solar astronomers who are constantly monitoring the sun looking for these types of solar storms. But the corona was discovered by looking at eclipses. >> Wow. >> And in fact, it s so important that we ve launched satellites that create artificial eclipses. They put a little obstacle in the way so that we can monitor the chromosphere-- i m sorry, the corona-- at all times. >> So i guess, are they hard to predict, solar storms? >> They re getting better at it. The big thing is they need to be able to see on the far side of the sun. So we ve actually launched a couple of spacecraft called stereo, and they re now on the far side of the sun-- not totally-- they re part way around the earth s orbit, but they can see the other parts of the sun, and we can see storms developing as the sun rotates around. The sun actually rotates, also. >> Wow. So what happens if-- say there s an instance, if there s a solar storm, and it does disrupt satellite communications coverage, whatever it is. What can we expect if that were to happen? Are you talking about cell phones? Are you talking about-- what would happen here on earth? >> Well, one of the worst things we re worried about is a really, really big solar storm which could knock out power grids in certain areas. >> Wow. >> And so you could actually have power outages. >> That s heavy. >> But usually satellites, they put them in safe mode. But it can damage satellites. And as you know, telecommunications is a multi-million dollar business. >> Right. >> So there s a lot of interest in solar storms. >> But they have a safe mode to-- >> yep, that s right. >> That s amazing, okay. So they just put it in there if they see something bad coming. >> It s still dangerous, but they can put it in a safer mode. [ Laughter ] one other thing that was observed during eclipses is there s sometimes these little arcs-- they re not little-- they re bigger than the earth, but these little arcs of plasma jutting off the sun. And you ve probably seen pictures of them. They look like arches or flames coming off the sun. >> Yeah. >> They re called prominences, and they re plasma in the strong magnetic field of the sun moving through the atmosphere. And they re really quite spectacular. >> Yeah, i ve seen some images and videos of them-- they really are. It s amazing. >> Again, those were discovered by eclipses. And i ll tell you another set of experiments. It turned out that by the mid 1800s, scientists had started working out the mathematics of planets, and had noticed when a planet gets perturbed and sort of gets nudged a little bit, they said, well, that must mean another planet that s tugging on it with its gravity. And that s how neptune was discovered. They saw the perturbation in the motion of uranus. And they noticed that there was a slight perturbation in the orbit of mercury. So scientists began speculating that that was due to another planet even closer in to the sun, which they nicknamed vulcan. So what happened was they then sent-- in the 1860s and 1870s, scientists deployed around the world for some eclipses to try and look for vulcan. And they didn t find anything, which puzzled them. They looked at multiple eclipses, multiple times-- no vulcan. But in 1915, albert einstein began publishing-- began communicating his work on the general theory of relativity. And einstein had postulated that gravity is caused by the bending of spacetime. And one of his-- one of his-- one of the predictions of his theory was that you would see this perturbation of the orbit of mercury. So he explained that with his general theory of relativity. But another prediction was that this bending of spacetime would actually bend light. So he showed why there wasn t a vulcan, but then he said, if you look at an eclipse of the sun, and look at the light of stars very, very close to the disk of the sun, you should be able to see the light bent in a way that it displaces the apparent position of the star. In 1919, arthur eddington, the british astronomer, deployed for an eclipse out on an island in the atlantic ocean. And they actually measured this slight change in the apparent position of the stars. And it was a huge event, because when einstein postulated his theory of general relativity, it was crazy. It was overturning newton. And here they actually-- his prediction turned true, and that s sort of what propelled einstein into his fame, was that discovery. So that was perhaps the most important scientific discovery ever during an eclipse, was showing how the light of stars is bent by the presence of the mass of the sun. >> And that-- so it was just the mass of the sun. >> That's right. >> And there was no vulcan. >> No vulcan. [ Laughter ] although, there are two eclipse stories related, sort of quasi-related to the same thing there. >> But everything comes together, right? That s why we re-- like, going back to the general theme here, a lot of science to learn from eclipses. >> A lot of science. Let me talk about a couple things that are going on with the science this time around. >> Okay. >> We have one group that s going to have a series of telescopic cameras set up along the eclipse path. And they re going to try and take video of the inner corona, which is very difficult to see except during the eclipse. And the idea is one camera will record a little segment of the inner corona, and the next camera will record the next segment, and they can stitch them together and have a rather extended video of the corona. >> Oh. >> So for scientists who study the interaction of the corona. Another one is some other scientists are going to be studying the polarization. Some light is polarized in different directions that tells us information about the magnetic fields and other things. But they re going to be looking at the spectrum and the polarization of the-- again, the inner corona, which is difficult to measure in other ways, because it s difficult to get so close-- to measure such dim phenomena so close to the disk of the sun. >> And this is-- going back, i m sorry-- you might ve already addressed this, but these are nasa telescopes, or these are others? >> It s a variety of-- nasa s cooperating on some of these, and some of them are universities, and some of them are amateur. So it s actually a whole team of different kinds of people. >> Wow, okay. >> Nasa s helping to coordinate some of these. >> Yeah, all working together, okay. Cool. >> We ve got another group that are actually going to repeat the general theory of relativity experiment with some more modern digital equipment with more sensitive cameras to look for some very dim stars, again, to try and fine tune those measurements to see how close einstein got to the prediction. >> Wow. >> And then, we also have some radio enthusiasts who are-- during the daylight, the sun ionizes gas in the upper atmosphere and we have an ionosphere. And it, both enhances and sometimes interferes with radio communications. So these scientists are going to look at how the ionosphere changes as the sun gets eclipsed, and the sunlight starts to drop off, and then go back up again. So, they re going to observe how the ionosphere changes. >> Interesting. >> So lots of interesting experiments. And of course-- and many of these are by these amatuer citizen scientists, which is kind of a fun thing, too. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we re measuring the earth s atmosphere, we re measuring a lot of about the sun. >> Mm-hmm. >> I know out of here, the wb-57, those high altitude planes, they re going to be flying above most of the atmosphere, about 90% of it, and they re going to take a look at the sun and study the sun s corona. >> Yeah, a bit. >> And measure how energy goes through the sun s atmosphere, but then also take a look at mercury. >> Oh, that s right. >> Yeah. >> I wanted to tell you, when you see the eclipse you will see a number of planets visible in the sky. >> Oh. >> So, if you get a chance, you ll see stars. Venus is off to the west, mars is even closer. It s-- venus is about 35 degrees to the west, mars is about 10 degrees to the west, mercury s about 10 degrees to the east, and jupiter s way over on the other side of the sky at 60 degrees to the east. And the star, regulus, which is a bright star, will be about 5 degrees to the east of the sun, so you can see if you can see that. >> And this will happen during totality, right? >> During totality, because the stars will come out. >> Wow, amazing. So you ll be able to see all of these, and you re talking about from the perspective if you re looking up and-- the sun-- >> right. >> Once it goes to totality-- and we can get to safety in a minute, but i do know, once it gets to totality you can take off your glasses for about that two minutes, right? >> That s right. Yeah. >> And then, that s when you ll be able to see all those different parts. >> Yes. >> That s really cool. >> Yeah, that s it. Let s talk a little about the history, because there s some interesting history, of course. >> Sure, yeah. >> The most famous story, which is probably legendary, but the story about a chinese astronomer, or possibly two chinese astronomers, named xi he, who was hired by the king. He was the high astronomer, the head astronomer. >> Mm-hmm. >> To make predictions about primarily with astrology to make sure that nothing bad was going to happen to the king. Well, apparently there was a solar eclipse he did not predict. >> Oh. >> And apparently, he had had a little too much to drink and he wasn t on the job when the time came. >> Oh. >> And the chinese actually thought, and a lot of ancient cultures thought, that something bad was happening. The chinese thought a dragon was swallowing the sun, and they would bang on pots and pans to scare the dragon away. And that s actually still practiced in many parts of the world, the bang on pots and pans. >> Yeah, they don t know the-- like, the science behind this total solar eclipse, so they re-- >> that s right. >> Yeah, right, go ahead. >> I think part of this tradition is passed on. >> Yeah, tradition, yeah. >> Well, unfortunately, this poor chinese astronomer that didn t do his job, he got executed. >> Oh. >> So, fortunately, we don t hold our scientists to this same level there. >> I m very thankful of that. >> Yes. >> I m sure we are. Yeah. >> But, lots of ancient people were scared of eclipses because they thought they-- i mean, it s a very amazing thing to happen in the sky and they were worried about it. It s warning of some tragedy. >> Mm-hmm. >> So early scientists in multiple cultures-- the mayans, the babylonians, the chinese-- studied eclipses and tried to understand and predict when they would occur. It turned out there was a greek by the name of thales who predicted an eclipse in 585 b.c. And this was recorded and the greek historian, herodotus, there was a big battle going on between two countries. There were the medes and the lydians, in what s now turkey. >> Hmm. >> And there was a war going on and they had lined up for battle. And they were about to do battle and suddenly there was a solar eclipse. >> Oh. >> Os, needless to say, the two generals met in the middle of the field and said, maybe we ought not to fight today. And so they drew up a peace treaty and those two countries never fought again. So just a-- >> all right. So an example of solar eclipse saving lives. >> That s right. Indeed, indeed. And so, but what happened was, a lot of these-- as people began to learn to write things down-- the babylonians on clay tablets, and the chinese court records, and the greek historians-- people began to pull together this information to understand how to predict eclipses and understand how the cycles occur. And that helped the-- that sort of spawned the whole science of astronomy. How do you-- how d the mathematics occur on these objects. >> Hmm. >> And one of the things they discovered was called the saros cycle, and this actually-- edmond halley named it the saros cycle. They didn t-- they had different names in ancient times. But what they discovered was that an eclipse will recur approximately every 6,585.3 days, which is 18 years, 11 days, and 8 hours. So it turns out that the eclipse we re about to have is part of a saros cycle that occurred-- the last one was in europe in august 11, 1999, and the next one will be in asia and the pacific one september 2nd, 2035. And it looks almost exactly the same except shifted by 8 hours around the other, 123 degrees in longitude. >> Oh. >> So these repeating cycles were how the ancients were able to predict eclipses. >> How about that. Wow. >> And it s just all the different cycles of the sun and the moon add up to this repeating cycle of eclipses. >> Interesting. >> Another thing that science that was done in ancient times was the greeks looked up at a lunar eclipse-- when we re talking about how the moon moves into the shadow of the earth. And what they discovered is when the moon is near the horizon and eclipsed the shadow of the earth is not a line, if the earth were flat. It s still round. So the greeks realized that the earth must be a sphere based on-- based on the shadow of the earth on the moon under an eclipse. >> Oh, wow. >> So that was the first scientific discovery that the earth was indeed a sphere. >> Back in the mayan-- wow, okay. >> Back in the greek times, that was. >> Oh, that was greek times. >> Yeah, it was. >> Okay, okay. Interesting. Wow! >> There s a lot of interesting history associated with eclipses. >> Absolutely. >> That-- so we ve learned a lot through history. I mean, we re talking about, yeah, the shape of the earth. We re talking about-- it stopped a battle. >> Nature of the sun, yeah. >> The nature of the sun. >> Yup. The earliest eclipse that was-- that, as far as we know, was recorded, that chinese eclipse was probably about 2000 b.c. And there was maybe the one in 2137 b.c. But, the one we re sure about was there was an eclipse recorded in the town of ugerit, or ugarit, on-- in what is now, i believe, syria. >> Hmm. >> It was may 3rd, 1375 b.c. It was recorded that the sun grew dark. >> Oh. >> So there s a number of those recorded in ancient texts and tablets. >> Okay. So, wait, so the chinese one was not recorded? It was just-- >> well, just know it s actually probably semi legendary. We re not sure. >> Got it, okay. >> But this is the one we know for sure we can date the eclipse. >> Yeah. >> And actually-- oh, that was what i was going to tell you, is we have a number of these dated eclipses-- eclipse of thales, we talked about. >> Mm-hmm. >> Eclipse in ugarit. And what happens if you just run-- if you just take your computer models and putting gravity and everything and just run the sun and moon backwards in time, it turns out the eclipse is in the wrong place. So, from that, what we ve learned is that the earth rotation very, very gradually starting to slow down. >> Hmm. >> Starting to, it s been a long time. It s mainly due to the tidal effects of the moon. It s actually dragging the earth slightly down. So it s actually in those several thousand years the earth has slowed down a little bit, a fraction of an-- a fraction of a rotation. >> Oh. >> But, keep in mind, we re talking about-- we re talking about 800,000 rotations or something like that since those times. And so, we ve-- the earth s rotation has changed just a little bit in those times. But, that s another discovery we ve made that you need that long time scale to see this very gradual slowing down of the earth s rotation. >> So, over that long period of time, you said a fraction of a day, is it like an hour? Couple of hours? >> A couple of hours i think, yeah. >> Wow. >> But, and recently, some scientists have gone back and looked at chinese records, and again, been able to fine tune that. So that s a-- that s using ancient records to fine tune some modern science, so. >> All right. Cool. Okay, so let s go to this eclipse coming up on the 21st. >> All right, do you want to talk about safety or what to expect? >> All of it. Let s do it. >> All right. All right, let s talk about-- >> however you want to start. >> Let s talk about safety a little bit. >> Okay, safety. >> Okay, everybody has heard, don t look at an eclipse, you ll go blind, right? We ve all heard that. >> Yeah. >> And i remember as a boy, puzzling and puzzling over that. What is it about an eclipse that makes it so dangerous? >> Mm-hmm. >> Well, it turns out, you don t want to stare at the sun ever. It s bad for your eyes. Your eyes are not designed to be-- handle direct sunlight for any length of time. >> I feel like it s a good general rule. >> It s a good general rule. And when our kids go outside, we say, now, kids, don t look at the sun, you ll go blind. It s true, you don t want them looking at the sun. >> Yeah, yeah. >> The reason why-- the eclipse is not any different. It s just you're more likely to stare at the sun during an eclipse because you want to see what s happening. >> Oh. >> So, this really-- there s people that think there is some sort of mysterious rays coming off the sun. The only thing is just the sun like we're normally familiar with, you just don t want to stare at it. Okay. >> Okay. >> All right, so that s the first thing. So any time the bright disk, that photosphere of the sun, any time the bright disk is visible, even just a little sliver, you really don t want to look at the sun with your unaided eye. It s dangerous. You want to keep your eye for a long -- your eyes for a long time, right? >> Yeah, i would hope so. >> But we have special-- nowadays, we have special eclipse glasses that you can get in museums and different places. >> Yeah. >> That are-- it s perfectly safe to put those on and look. By the way, don t do what i did. I was checking my eclipse glasses the other day. I looked up at the sun, i said, yeah. And i pulled the eclipse glasses off before i stopped looking at the sun, so then i had a bright blob. Just for a second, i had a bright blob in my eyes for a little while. So be careful with them. They re often made of aluminized mylar and they look-- they re kind of silvery. >> Okay. >> And also, don t put any pinholes or anything in them. That-- you want to-- you want to keep them like they are. >> Keep them-- so what are the special eclipse glasses? They have-- they re just like really intense sunglasses? Is that kind of what i think? >> Yeah, it s kind of super sunglasses. >> Okay. >> Which here s the thing, you want to avoid any homemade glasses. >> Oh. >> Don t put on multiple sunglasses or something. Don t use smoked glass, or photographic film, or neutral density filters, or anything like that. You re not sure there s enough there to block the light to make it safe. >> Okay. >> So stick with the-- with the-- with the kind that you can get. They re not very expensive and you can-- you can get them online and other places. >> Okay. >> One exception is number 14 welder s glass is safe, because that s designed also for very bright. Like the welders use. >> Oh, okay. >> All right, so that s okay. And the-- and even more important part is don t look at the sun-- don t look at the bright disk of the sun with any instruments, with telescopes or binoculars without proper filters on them, because those things actually magnify the strength of the sun. >> Ooh. They ll your-- >> and just like when i was a boy, i used to use the magnifying glass on the ants, you know? That could do that to your eye, so you need to be very, very careful. >> Yeah. >> So i would avoid-- i would avoid those, unless you have properly designed equipment. Now, don t like take your binoculars and put your sunglasses at the eyepiece, because it s so intense it could burn right through your special glasses. So there s-- be very, very careful unless you know what you re doing with binoculars and telescopes. Don t even use those. >> Right, and that s, again, that s only a two minute eclipse. >> It s only a two and a half minute at the most. >> Yeah. >> So, that s-- that little window of time during totality, after the moon has completely covered the disk of the sun-- >> mm-hmm. >> --That is the only time you can look safely without glasses. >> Okay. >> And it-- and the brightness of the-- of the eclipsed sun and the corona-- it s like the brightness of a full moon, so there s no dangerous rays. You just don t want to be staring at the sun when the sun re-emerges. So, okay. So, just good rules of thumb. >> So, when you re looking at it-- say you have the glasses on. >> Mm-hmm. >> Is there a specific amount of time that we can say is safe to have the glasses on and be looking at the moon about to cover the sun? >> Well, what s going to happen-- >> you don t want to stare at it for hours. >> No, no. Well, what you re probably looking for is as the sun-- as the very last piece of the sun starts to disappear, you ll see actually little dots that form, and those are called baily s beads. >> Hmm. >> And it s an interesting phenomena of what-- it has to do with the different brightnesses on the edge of the sun, and also the mountains on the moon. >> Mm-hmm. >> When those disappear, that s the time you can take your glasses off and-- so you don t want to be-- because that s actually tiny little pieces of the photosphere of the sun. >> Right. >> Oh, there s the other way-- if you don t have the glasses, there s some other ways you can look at-- and it s-- by the way, if you re seeing a partial eclipse, you just want to use the glasses. You don t want to look at the sun directly. >> Will you be able to see the moon partially covering the sun with the glasses? >> Yes, it ll look like a cookie with a bite taken out of it. >> How about that. That s cool. >> That s pretty cool. One method you probably heard of is a pinhole projector, and it s very easy to make. You need some opaque material, like cardboard, and you make a pinhole, and then you project onto like a white sheet of paper an image of the sun. A pinhole acts like a lens. And i think it s important, don t actually look through the pinhole with your eye. It s not intended to look inside. It s a projector. It s a little projector. >> You look at the paper. >> You look at the paper and you ll see a little image of the sun with that. And you can see the progress of the eclipse. Another method i used to do when i was in high school, is if you take a very small mirror or a large mirror with a piece of paper with a circular hole cut out, and you can reflect the image on the sun-- of the sun onto a shaded wall, and you can watch the eclipse that way. >> Oh. >> And i tell the story, i was in-- i was in history class when there was an eclipse of the sun when i was in high school, and i asked the teacher, i said, is it okay if i put this in the window and we can watch the eclipse during class time? The teacher said, okay. So we put it in the window and it put an image of the sun during the eclipse up on the ceiling. We just went along with class and you could watch the progress of the eclipse. >> All right. >> So those are-- so the mirror, there s the projector, or your glasses are the three ways to watch the eclipse. And then, the only time, again, to watch the sun-- watch the eclipse unaided is during totality, that little short period of time. >> Okay, and totality is by far the most narrow section of the u.s. >> That s right. >> So you really have to be in that spot and we-- you can go to the website eclipse2017.nasa.gov and find out exactly where that s going to be passing through. >> That s right. And it starts-- i think i started this, but it comes on the west coast. >> Oh, right. >> It arrives in oregon, it goes across oregon, idaho, wyoming, nebraska, missouri, kentucky, tennessee, south carolina. It s a nice path that goes right through the middle of the united states. >> All right. >> And it s a relatively narrow-- relatively narrow path and, of course, it s actually moving. It s a round shadow that s moving across the surface of the earth. >> Mm-hmm. >> And if you re actually anywhere in that band you will see a total eclipse. The closer you are to the center, the longer it will last. Up to a max of two and a half minutes. >> All right. >> The other thing though is the weather. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. So, it turns out that what eclipse aficionados like to do is they ll look at the historical weather at that point in the u.s. At that time of year and it turns out some of the areas are more likely to have-- to have clouds than others. So it turns out, eastern oregon is a really good place. They tend to have nice clear weather at that time of year. >> Okay. >> Wyoming, nebraska, missouri, all the way to tennessee, tend to be pretty cloud free at that time of year. And then, there s another-- as it goes over the appalachians, they tend to be cloudier. And then the little section of south carolina will also have, hopefully, less clouds than other places. But again, you never know. It;s the weather. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> All you can do is roll the dice and figure-- and hope that you re lucky, because if-- there have been many eclipses that people have gone-- scientists have gone specific trips to see and it s been interfered-- the weather interferes. >> Yeah, that s just-- yeah, poor luck. But that s based on data of this day over time at this place. >> That s right. How often has it been cloudy on this day at this place. >> Yeah, and so you re really rolling the dice, but playing the odds. But those based on statistical data are better off than others. >> Right. >> Very cool. Is there any particular spot during the path of totality that may be would be better? Like, for example, is it better to go to like a state park and be away from city lights or anything? Or is being in the city just as fine? >> It s just as fine. >> Okay. >> It doesn t get totality dark during an eclipse. >> Okay. >> It gets dark, but i don t think that s-- i don t think that part of it is particularly important. >> Okay. >> The main thing, it s actually much more practical, you want to be somewhere where you re close to restrooms. >> Okay. >> The eclipse itself lasts three hours and there may be a lot of traffic, so the ability to get around maybe limited. >> Ooh, yeah. >> So, just very practical things-- are you close to food> are you close to supplies? Things like that. >> Mm-hmm. >> So let s talk a little bit about what to expect. >> Yeah. >> As i said, there may be a lot of heavy traffic so you want to get to where you want to go early. >> Okay. >> And bring things that you re going to need-- your glasses-- your eclipse glasses, a camera if you re going to bring a camera, chairs, sunscreen, water, food, toilet paper, anything that you think you might need while you re on the road. >> Wow, yeah. >> I once had to evacuate here in houston during hurricane rita, and it s maybe a little bit like that and may be stuck on the road with heavy traffic if you re not careful. >> Wow! Are you talking about people stopping on the highway just to-- >> no, just talking about large numbers of people moving to see the eclipse. >> To see-- to be in the path of totality. >> If you re traveling-- for instance, i m going to be in the carolinas. >> Mm-hmm. >> And every eclipse watched on the atlantic coast is going to be headed for south carolina. >> Yeah. >> So the interstates are going to be pretty full. >> Wow. >> So just allow plenty of time. The total eclipse-- i mean, the entire eclipse lasts about three hours, so it s about an hour and a half leading up to totality and an hour and a half until the moon completely uncovers the sun. >> Okay, okay. >> But again, i-- and one of the things i thought was interesting was the eclipse veterans gave some very sage advice. They said, if this is your first eclipse, don t try to photograph it. Don t try to take telephotos of it. You ll be so worried about your camera, you ll miss the spectacular nature of the eclipse. So i think that s good advice. And so, if you re a veteran eclipse guy and you want to-- and you want to make photographs of things, that s fine. >> Yeah. >> Let the professionals do it. Just enjoy the experience. >> Yeah. >> I think that s a good idea. >> I m sure there s going to be plenty of imagery coming out from all over the u.s. >> Oh, there will. I bet there s going to be lots of selfies with people with the moon and the eclipsed sun behind them. But that s fine. >> Do you think selfies will come out, at least during totality? Maybe when it s dark enough it ll be okay. >> You may need a flash on yourself. >> Oh, okay. A flash on yourself, okay. >> A couple of suggestions to do, so a little citizen science you can do. >> Okay. >> One of them is, notice how the sky colors change. >> Hmm. >> They re very unusual colors that you don t normally see, so that s an interesting thing. Also, when there s a tree casting shadows, there are lots of little tiny holes between the leaves that act like pinhole cameras. So sometimes you can see little crescent suns during the partial eclipse on the ground. So you can look for that. It s kind of fun to take pictures of that. >> Oh, that s really cool. >> Does the temperature change? Does it feel cooler during the eclipse? Does the wind pick up or calm down during the eclipse? Just some kind of scientific things you can observe. >> Just is there-- are there things that we know of that-- what atmospheric changes in the earth? Like-- >> it will-- it does change the heating of the earth from the sun. >> Oh, it does? >> Yeah, and you will feel colder. And people actually have noticed it feels considerably cooler, which will be pleasant probably on august 21st, especially in south carolina. So just things to notice. Again, the other thing is as totality approaches observers have sometimes noticed what s called shadow bands, and these are alternating light and dark bands that quickly move across the ground, especially where you have light colored surfaces. >> Hmm. >> They occur just before totality and after totality. They re-- actually, we don t fully understand how they work. They probably have something to do with the atmosphere, the same reason the stars twinkle. But if you can see them-- sometimes they re seen, and sometimes they re not. Something to look for. >> Hmm. >> Another thing to observe is right a s the totality is beginning, there s just a tiny little sliver of the sun, and it looks very much like a diamond ring in the sky, and it s called the diamond ring effect. And that s definitely when the diamond ring occurs at the end of the eclipse. So the baily s beads-- that s the time to put your sunglasses-- your special eclipse glasses back on. >> Oh, okay. >> But, as the eclipse is about to happen you ll see the diamond ring effect, and then the diamond will go away, the baily s beads will go away, and then you ll see the full totality. And again, you can take your eclipse glasses off during totality, but be ready to put them back on. >> Yeah. >> And another thing you can look around is take a moment-- while you re enjoying the eclipse, take a moment to observe people around you. See how people react to it. >> Yeah. >> The expressions on their face. Another thing, is sometimes animals behave strangely during eclipses. >> Chicken shave been known to roost, birds behave differently. Even wasps and bees sometimes behave strangely. >> Wow. >> Cows, insect-- dogs, insects, anything you can think of that s close by, just for fun, observe and see if you notice anything. >> It is a strange and rare phenomenon to them. >> It is strange and they re confused by it. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And by the way, after totality, the whole sequence will reverse it. So you have all those sequence of things, the partial eclipse, the diamond ring, the baily s beads. >> Mm-hmm. >> And that will reverse as the moon uncovers the sun. >> Wow. Amazing. >> So if you miss this eclipse, or the weather doesn t cooperate, we have another chance in 7 years from now. >> All right. >> In 2024, there will be an eclipse that will move through texas and up through new england, and it will be another total eclipse of the sun. So we have two in a very short period of time, but it s been a long time since we ve had an eclipse. >> All right, yeah. >> So, we re due. We re due. We get two-- so, two chances, and my wife said, well, why don t we just go to the one in 7 years? And i said, well, we don t know what our lives are going to be like in 7 years. >> Yeah. >> So i said, carpe eclipsum. Seize the eclipse. So this is your chance. >> Fantastic. Yeah, no, i mean, i m-- if anything, why not both, right? >> Well, why not? We can try both. I may become an eclipse junkie, i guess. >> Yeah, yeah. No, i mean, it s so cool. And the fact that we re able to predict them, and we can go and-- we have a bunch of best practices on how you can observe the eclipse, the best that you can possibly do it. >> Yeah. >> I know, going back, just one quick thing. Well, you said early. Arrive to your destination early. >> Yeah, if you can, yes. >> How early are you-- are you talking about like days, or day, or hours? >> Well, it s difficult to arrive days early now, because virtually every hotel is booked along the eclipse path. >> Oh. >> We re going to be some distance away from the eclipse, so we re going to have to start early. The eclipse is maximum in south carolina about 2:30, so i figure if we get off at 8:00 in the morning that gives us about 6 hours to get there. And that may or may not be enough time. We ll just have to do the best we can. That was just where we-- i m staying with relatives, so that s-- >> okay. >> But, a lot of people i know have their hotel rooms booked in the-- at-- underneath the eclipse, so they can just step outside and watch it. >> Yeah, that s the-- oh, i wish i planned ahead there. That would ve been nice just get a nice, like, resort or something and just lay by the pool, watch the eclipse go by. That d be pretty cool. >> Actually, what i had originally planned-- i ve been planning for this eclipse since i was in graduate school many, many years ago. >> Wow. >> And i noticed that it would actually go through grand teton national park. And i thought, that s what i ll do. I ll go to the grand tetons and see the eclipse. But it turns out, the weather s not so-- it s a higher probability of clouds there, so i backed away from that. >> Wow. >> Good luck to those of you that-- the tetons. But that would be a beautiful photograph, actually, to see the eclipse over the grand tetons. >> Oh, absolutely. Let s keep our fingers crossed for that good weather all across the board. >> Hopefully it ll be clear all across the united states. >> Yeah. >> And everybody will be able to enjoy the eclipse. >> That would be fantastic. Well, i think that s all the time we have, unless you have one more story. But-- anything? >> I have other stories, but-- there are lots of good stories. >> Well, hey, yeah. Actually, we have a website and if you stay tuned until after the music here, we ll tell you where you can go and check out some more info on the eclipse and learn a little bit more about the history, the science, and all kinds of cool stuff, including the citizen science that mark was talking about here and how you can-- what you can do to observe some phenomena about this eclipse. So stay tuned for after the music there. Mark, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. >> You re welcome. >> I feel like that was-- i m not going to say everything about the eclipse, because like you said, there s definitely more. But that s the-- i feel like i have a good understanding about eclipses and the science that goes behind it. So there s a lot about eclipses and a lot that we can learn just from shadows, and it s just amazing that there s so much behind it. So thanks for coming on the podcast and talking all about it. And everyone, i hope you enjoy the eclipse on the august 21st. So thanks again, mark. >> Thank you. [ Music ] >> houston, go ahead. >> I m on the space shuttle. >> Roger, zero-g and i feel fine. >> Shuttle has cleared the tower. >> We came in peace for all mankind. >> It s actually a huge honor to break the record like this. >> Not because they are easy, but because they are hard. >> Houston, welcome to space. >> Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, once again, this monday, august 21st, a total solar eclipse will sweep across america. If you want to know all the information that we have, if this podcast was not enough for you, go to eclipse2017.nasa.gov. You can find out all the science of eclipses, even more than we talked about with mark matney today, where it will be, and then how to safely view it from the ground. Just be sure to make sure that you check the glasses and make sure that they are nasa certified. After talking with mark matney after the show, we found out that the shadow itself is going to be 68 miles wide, and then that shadow travels faster than 1,000 miles per hour. So, he went back and he was trying to find the width of the shadow. It s actually a little bit smaller than you would imagine, but how fast it travels-- i mean, we re talking about some of those planes that are going to be following the shadow and studying it, they re only going to get only a few extra minutes out of it because the shadow s traveling so fast. But, if you think about it, it s the moon going around the earth, so it s probably going to be a little bit faster than you would think. Anyway, you can find out more about the eclipse by following us on social media. Obviously, our nasa accounts will be talking about this, but also here at the nasa johnson space center you can follow our accounts there. We ll be talking about it. If you follow international space station you can see some of the imagery. You ll get from there 250 miles above the earth. And then also, aries astral materials research, you ll find them on multiple accounts and you can talk-- they will be talking mostly about the science of eclipses, and they are also based here in the johnson space center. All of these are on either facebook, twitter, and instagram. If you want to join the conversation for-- and maybe submit some pictures that you are taking from wherever you re going to be observing the eclipse, and then also sort of see what everyone else is doing, the official hashtag for this event is #eclipse2017. Just use that on your favorite platform and share your experience and maybe ask a couple questions in case all of the information we told you today and anything you can t find on the website we can still answer even more questions that you have. So this podcast was recorded on july 19th, 2017. Thanks to alex perryman, john stoll, and tracy calhoun. And thanks again to dr. Mark matney for coming on the show. We ll be back next week.

Ep46_Stories Of Unity

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-05-24

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 46: Stories of Unity. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your co-host today, along with Adam [inaudible] Chair of the Asians Succeeding in Innovation and Aerospace employee resource group, conveniently spelling out ASIA here on site. Adam, thanks for coming on. Adam Kalil: Oh, thanks, Gary. Glad to be here. Host: So we've have had some employee resource groups on the podcast before. And we've had the African-American resource group and the Women's resource group. So what are the goals of the one you chair, ASIA? Adam Kalil: Okay. Employee resource groups are established to foster an inclusive workplace. Like all other non-ERG's, ASIA's ERG goal is faster, collaborative, and inclusive workplace to bring about innovative solution to NASA's mission. Second, influence hiring and employee retention to gain and retain talent and bring new perspectives through active engagement. Three, raise awareness of JSC policies and processes. Fourth is serve as cultural ambassadors to fuel better engagement to the management team. Fifth is transform employees into think tanks and build a talent pipeline, increasing representation and inclusiveness. Host: All right, really hitting it all. So Adam, May is Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month. So what is the significance of this month to you? Adam Kalil: Yeah, sure. Highlighting this month is important to recognize the remarkable contributions by the previous generations of Americans of Asian and Pacific Islander descent. Also, it's important to understand the cultural differences within the JSC workforce which can make it easier for us to relate to the people that have different backgrounds and together we build a lasting legacy for a more inclusive workplace. Host: Yeah. And so that's what we're doing today, we're engaging with the Asian-Pacific American community. So Houston, We Have a Podcast is teaming up with ASIA for Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month to tackle this theme of unity. And we've wrangled four guests from different backgrounds across the center in fields like exploration, safety, procurement, and the International Space Station. And then we'll get to hear their story and how they got to NASA, and then what they do to make human space flight possible. So, Adam, who is our first guest? Adam Kalil: First is Christine [inaudible]. She's the WD manager for Institutional Procurement Office and advisor for the ASIA employee resource group. She also first came to the US as a refugee from Vietnam when she was 11. Host: Great. All right, let's get right into it. Producer Alex, cue the music. [ Music ] T minus five seconds and counting. Mark. [Inaudible] there she goes. Houston, we have a podcast. [ Music ] Host: Well, Christine, thank you for coming on the show to tell your story today. Krystine Bui: Thank you. Happy to be here today. Host: [Laughs] Well, I wanted to start with -- and this is curious -- is you came to the United States from Vietnam, actually, when you were a kid. Krystine Bui: Mm-hmm. Host: So what was that like, that transition, I guess, from Vietnam to the States? Krystine Bui: Wow, I was 11 at the time, very, very young. And I had a very traumatic experience coming over here on a boat. I was one of the refugees, boat refugees. Yeah. We were stranded in the ocean for, like, 20 days without water or food. So something like that you don't forget easily, even as a child. So coming over here, everything was like new. It was, like, a new land, a new beginning. Everything was just totally strange and new. We got a lot of help from church. They gave us clothing and food in the beginning. So, you know? Host: Yeah. Krystine Bui: I mean, I was too young to really comprehend and appreciate what all they were doing, but now looking back, yeah. Host: Yeah. Krystine Bui: All those amazing people. Host: Looking back at it objectively, it was just part of -- Krystine Bui: Yeah, yeah. I mean, looking back I told my kids every chance you get, "You just need to give. Because mom and dad came and we received." Host: Yes. And it was very, very helpful. Krystine Bui: Yeah. Host: What were some of the things that were most new to you? When you said things were new, was it a culture shock or was it, I don't know, maybe -- Krystine Bui: Everything. Host: Everything? Krystine Bui: Yeah, I think we came in the winter. So, you know, there's no winter in Vietnam -- at least South Vietnam there's no winter. The temperatures there stays in I want to say the 90's year-round. So coming over here, the first winter was -- you know, I mean, Houston wasn't cold, but then we were only here for a couple months. And then we went on, we moved to Oklahoma City. And Oklahoma City at the time had snow. Host: The first time seeing snow? Krystine Bui: Yeah, it was a true winter. And at the time I didn't know how to wear tennis shoes, for instance. And I still don't know how to wear tennis shoes to this day [Laughs] because I grew up in flip-flops. Host: Oh, I see. Krystine Bui: It was so funny. You know, the church, they gave us shoes. And my dad made us wear shoes to school. But then halfway walking to school, I took off my tennis shoes and I put on my flip flops. [ Laughter ] Of course, in hindsight it wasn't, you know, a smart thing to do because I caught cold all winter long. Host: Oh, no. Krystine Bui: Yeah. Host: Yeah, I get why your body's not used to it. And you're taking off your shoes. Krystine Bui: No. So that was a total adjustment. You know? Just the temperature itself. And then going to school, there was the language barrier, of course. Host: Oh, that's huge, yeah. Krystine Bui: But yeah, luckily when you're young, you're like a sponge and you absorb. And, you know, you just learn. You pick little things up here and there and eventually you blend in. Host: Okay. Krystine Bui: Yeah. Host: So you eventually felt that, you eventually felt like you sort of started to blend in a little bit? Krystine Bui: You know, I really didn't feel the transition; it just became part of my life. You know? I think when you're young and you're in a new culture, you just -- you just learn to adapt and you don't even think about it, you know? Like, I think when you're older and you learn to play piano, anything, your mind has to make that transition, you know? But the younger you are, the easier it is to adapt and adopt new things. So I feel when you ask me when did I feel that transition, I really can't tell you. It just became a part of me. It just -- and I'm pretty sure it's like that for many people that came here when they were younger. Host: Yeah. Krystine Bui: Yeah. Host: In school, was there certain subjects that sort of clicked with you as you were going through this transitional period, maybe some things you really latched onto and really liked? Maybe the education system really opened your eyes to some extra possibilities of what you wanted to do for the rest of your life. Krystine Bui: So I can tell you math was very easy for me [Laughs]. Host: Really? Krystine Bui: And that's probably because of the school that I got in Vietnam. Host: Okay. Krystine Bui: So math was -- it was just easy. And then English, of course, was not [Laughs]. I remember taking many ESL courses. Host: Mm-hmm. English as a second language? Krystine Bui: Yeah, English as a second language. And then I also had additional tutoring on the side to help me learn. Host: Okay. So at what point did you decide -- because right now you're in accounting. And I'm guessing that's kind of what you wanted to pursue for school, right? Krystine Bui: Not really. [ Laughter ] Host: Was it forced upon you on your parents? Krystine Bui: So I'll tell you a little bit. So, you know, Asian parents -- all Asian parents want their kids to be doctors. And if you can't be a doctor, you be an engineer. And if you can't be an engineer, I guess you go to business school [Laughs]. It's like the last one on the scale of things. So, of course, I went down that path. Host: So was it you didn't want to be a doctor or an engineer? Or is it -- Krystine Bui: Well, you know what, I took one semester of biology at U of H Central Campus. And I think there were at least 400 of us in that big, big auditorium. It was so intimidating. And me with my sleeping habit [Laughs], I didn't do well. Host: [Laughs] You fell asleep in class? Krystine Bui: I fell asleep in every single class. And I still do to this day. The minute people lecture, I go to sleep. Host: Oh. Krystine Bui: So then, of course, I switch over to engineering. And I did really well in engineering. And every class is -- because, you know, math was easy for me. But then physics was absolutely not. I took one physics class and I said, "You know what? I can't be an engineer. I'm not a physics person." So then at the time, my husband, my boyfriend then he said, "Honey, why don't you just go for business?" [ Laughter ] And, you know, so with my passion for number, accounting was the obvious choice. So, yeah. Host: So when you started taking those classes, did you really start excelling? Krystine Bui: It was at home for me. Host: Really? Krystine Bui: Yeah, I slept through every single class and I aced all the way through. Host: Wow. Krystine Bui: Yeah. Host: So you knew, okay, that's definitely where you're excelling. Because I couldn't do that. I struggled through accounting, I really did. Krystine Bui: Oh, no. It was a piece of cake for me. [ Laughter ] Host: So then where did you start working right after school? Krystine Bui: So after I -- let's see, after I decided that accounting is my major, so then my friend got a job as a co-op out here. He was an engineer co-op. And then he started to tell me about NASA. And I said, "NASA, space exploration, those people up there in the sky?" I said, "I want to be there, I think that's a cool place to be." Host: Yeah. Krystine Bui: So then I put in my application for a co-op. When I put in, I had already missed the deadline for that semester. Host: Oh, no. Krystine Bui: But then you know what? I really wanted to be here. So I was on the phone bugging the co-op coordinator every day for, like, two weeks. I said, "You know, I really want to be out here. And please, please, please give me an interview." I think he was fed up with me after calling him two weeks straight [Laughs] and he told me to come in for an interview. Host: [Laughs] Finally gave in? Krystine Bui: Yeah. And that's how I got my first co-op position out here. Host: Wow. So where was the first position? Was it -- Krystine Bui: I was in FMD. Host: That's what? Krystine Bui: Financial Management Division. Host: Okay. Krystine Bui: That was where most accountants were at the time. And so that was my first co-op tour. And then the second co-op tour I decided I want to see what's beyond accounting. So I went over to procurement. Host: Okay. Krystine Bui: And I don't know if it was necessarily the job in itself or the environment, the people that really attracted me and I felt more at home. So after graduation I chose procurement, and I've been there ever since. Host: Really? Krystine Bui: Yes. Host: And I see not only have you been in procurement, but you sort of worked your way up through procurement. Now you're a manager? Krystine Bui: Yes, yeah. Host: All right [Laughs]. So this is kind of a broad question, but maybe some people don't really recognize -- you think of NASA, you think of engineering, space flight, and science. But there's a business side to things. Krystine Bui: Absolutely. Host: Someone's got to keep track of the numbers, right? So what does the Procurement Office do? Krystine Bui: So, you know, the easiest way I explain to people is if you look around here, NASA, we don't do all the jobs ourselves. You know, like the -- right now the International Space Station is floating out there in outer space. We manage the contract, but the contractor that does -- the one that maintains the ISS is Boeing. Host: Hmm. Krystine Bui: And not only Boeing, but under Boeing they have quite a few major subcontractors and smaller subcontractors supporting them. So, you know, on a high level it's like that. But if you look around you, you know, let's say JSC buildings. JSC employees, we don't quite maintain the buildings or we don't build the buildings. Every time we get funding for a new building or to even do a roof repair, we get a contractor to come in and do the job. And that's where procurement comes in. We do everything from cradle to grave, from putting the request for proposal out to evaluate and award the contract to the contractors. So that way they can come in and do the job. We do a lot of -- NASA is -- NASA overall, we do more oversight than actual hands-on. Host: I see. So you're awarded a certain amount of money, and you need a task. And then your job is to make sure that that money is spent as efficiently as possible -- Krystine Bui: Exactly. Host: -- bringing in the right people to do the right job. It's done reliably, it's done based on a certain set of rules and requirements. Krystine Bui: Absolutely. Host: You have to make sure you fulfill these obligations. Krystine Bui: Before we pay them. Host: Yes. Exactly. Okay, so that makes sense. So we are the -- we sort of -- we get the money and we make sure the job is done, but we enable these contractors to do that. Krystine Bui: Yes. They carry out -- the contractor that has to carry out the requirements in the contract before we make any payment to them. Host: So then what's your job as a manager in the procurement office? Are you delegating these responsibilities? [ Laughter ] Krystine Bui: So as a manager, I have direct reports that are under me from team leads to contracting officers, to contract specialists. So basically, all of us do the same kind of job but at a different level. Like, the contract specialists, when you start out in procurement, you start out as a contract specialist. And then after you've been there a while, you work your way up. You understand the rules and regulations. And then you become a contracting officer. At that point, you review the work that the contract specialists do. And then as the team lead, you know, you manage -- you oversee work that was done by these contracting officers and contract specialists. And then as a manager, not only the -- not only you have the overall responsibility, but then you're also looking at a different side: You want to develop people's soft skills. Host: Yes. Krystine Bui: You want -- you know, you become more of a people developer, ensuring that you -- there is a succession pipeline that when you exit, when you leave, they will be behind you to pick up your job. And not just to carry out the technical but also the softer people side as well. Host: Yeah, you're reviewing to make sure the job is done correctly but then also empowering others to develop their skills. Krystine Bui: Exactly. Host: So let's end with a piece of advice. For you coming from Vietnam as a kid and just kind of learning the ropes for this brand new culture to now being a leader inside of NASA, what's a piece of advice that you would give someone outside? Krystine Bui: Whatever you do, just do your best. Just approach it with passion. And just be the best you can be. And at the end of the day, you know, you alone cannot experience everything. So look around for good mentors. Look around for [inaudible] and go to them and get their help to fulfill your dream. And as long as you have a dream, as long as you have your passion, anything is possible. Host: I love it. Christine, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. Krystine Bui: Thank you. Host: Okay, that was Christine [inaudible] talking about her role in procurement and the ASIA ERG. So, Adam, who do we have next? Adam Kalil: Next is Doug Wong. He's the visiting vehicle SNMA integration lead for the International Space Station Cargo Resupply Service, CRS contract. Host: Wow. All right. He's got a big role. And he actually came from Hong Kong, too. It was really cool talk. So let's go right ahead to there. Doug, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to share your story. Doug Wong: Thanks for having me. Host: Of course. I wanted to start with your journey because yours is a unique one because you were an immigrant and you had -- actually were in Hong Kong for the first 19 years of your life, is that right? Doug Wong: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, I was an immigrant when I was 19 years old, and I spent most of my elementary and high school education in Hong Kong. I, in fact, attribute a lot of my current career success to both my elementary school and my high school as well. Host: So have you ever seen, or visited, or maybe talked to an elementary school in the US and have a good comparison? Doug Wong: Yeah, I actually did get the chance to do that in one occasion. And I was having a talk with some of the elementary school kids, I believe it was up in Woodlands, Texas, near Houston. And, yeah, that was very interesting in that the kids, they were just so amazed at how -- you know, the way NASA operates all the futuristic things that we do. And I actually can -- you know, when I was there, I could actually kind of see through their minds as to this kind of [inaudible] amazement out of their faces. And it was just so fascinating. Host: Yeah. Actually, so being in the Public Affairs Office, we go out and do stuff like that quite frequently actually. And I always kind of purposely sign up for those things because sometimes you just kind of get into the groove of your day and you just sort of realize or you don't realize how special what you are doing is. It's just the day-to-day job. And then he quote you say, "Well, this is what I'm doing," and then you see the kids faces light up and they're like, "What? You doing what? That's amazing. I didn't even know that was possible." And you going to step back and realize how amazing it is. So with your experience with talking with these students and maybe your experience with the school, how would you compare it to your education in Hong Kong? What are some of the main differences? Doug Wong: Let me see. Well, incidentally I also get the opportunity to visit my high school and also gave similar talks about my career, so I can actually tell the difference between them. Host: Oh, okay. Doug Wong: Kids in Asia, they tend to be a little bit more reserved. And they don't necessarily express their feelings. But once you start talking to them and once you get them up to speed, then they will have all kinds of questions. I remember they loved asked me about astronomy, which is not actually a very good subject for me. But I was still able to invoke their imagination, which was wonderful. And in that respect it's kind of similar for the kids in the US in that they usually start -- become more excited, okay? And they're all like, "Wow, wow, engineers from NASA. Cool." That kind of expression you see from their face. And then they will start having a lot of facial expressions, and you can tell that they are very, very engaged to your talk. Host: Yeah, and that's such a pleasure. So one of the main differences since you -- so you were in school. You were a student in Asian school, elementary schools, and you understand the cultural differences. You know, what is it really that makes -- what are some of the cultural highlights that really point out why it's a little bit more reserved maybe than the excitement of a US school? Doug Wong: Yeah, I think a lot has to do with the cultural upbringing, especially the parenting. Okay? So when you're a kid -- an Asian kid -- you will be told not to speak up, okay, until you're told. Host: Oh. Doug Wong: Yeah, so this is something very different, unlike the kids over here. Host: They just speak up whenever they want. Doug Wong: Very open to, yeah, express themselves. In fact, this is something that I have to learn through time to. Host: Oh, yeah? Are you talking about even in the workplace, too, [inaudible] when to speak up? Doug Wong: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Host: Oh, interesting. So what was the -- I mean, coming here when you're 19, I mean, that's a pretty significant amount of time that you spent over in Hong Kong. So I'm sure coming here as a teenager -- not even just a teenager. I mean, you're almost in your 20s at this point. How was the adjustment coming to the United States? Doug Wong: Well, it did take some getting used to. Again, it's primarily the cultural issue. I'm always a very quiet person. Even now I'm a very quiet person. But then after a time I learned that you really have to learn to express yourself, express how you feel, what your opinions are. Otherwise people will see you as distant, not friendly, or in some cases just, you know, don't pay too much attention to you. Okay? So this is something I learned through time. And that's also one of the reasons why now at NASA I try to -- in addition to my current work, I also tried to be involved in some of the employee resource group activities to try to help bring myself out. I also see the need for myself to give back to the next generation. So that becomes one of the things that I feel very passionate about. Host: Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, even if you're a little bit more introverted and maybe you are a nice person and maybe you do care about other people, but maybe since it's not apparent, it's not perceived that way. So you kind of actually have to force yourself to go on. I mean, I did that. That was college for me. College was a brand-new experience, and so you kind of had to force yourself to go out and make friends and to join organizations that may be didn't know anyone, but you knew it was going to advance your career. And maybe make a couple of friends along the way. And actually, those friends are some of the closest I have right now and just because I decided at the time that I wanted to go out. And I was nervous at first, I was really hesitant. Maybe this is right for me. It's kind of scary, but you got to go out and do it. Doug Wong: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. It's always very difficult when you first meet someone and try to talk to people. But once you warm up and develop the relationship, you find it very beneficial. This is something that time and time again I discovered. So. Host: So I wanted to sort of get into your education, too, because it's all over the place. You are -- I mean, honestly it makes me wanting back to school and get a couple more degrees and some letters at the end of my signature there. But you had your hands in human factors, in the Constellation program, Orion. So how did you transition from coming here at 19 to eventually working at NASA and then going around NASA and getting all of these different experiences? Doug Wong: Well, I think, again, school was a very important part of me. And I remember -- I think my biggest motivation was there was one time after I came here, I watched a rerun of the Space Odyssey 2001 on TV. Host: Oh, yeah. Doug Wong: Man, that really inspired me. I said, "Oh wow. I mean, this is something that -- I mean, [inaudible] near future, within my lifetime we can actually do these kind of things." And then that fascinated me, and that kind of, like, started my career path. So I decided to study mechanical engineering in school. And I went to University of Maryland in College Park, and I got my BS degree around 1987. And then I moved right ahead and got my master degree also in mechanical engineering in the same school. And then right after that point I went straight to NASA. At that time I went to NASA Langley Research Center because -- that was a different time, okay? See, unlike right now, which [inaudible] you can get here is to go through the pathway program. Host: Right. Doug Wong: They were actually out there in my school trying to hire people. And I got accepted. It was, of course, very exciting. Host: Oh yeah. Doug Wong: And so I spent 16 years of my career at the NASA Langley Research Center, primarily doing a lot of research related activities. And so that's when I started exposed to things like electronics and developing electronics for instrumentation for internals. And then to human factors for aviation safety. And that was extremely interesting, by the way, because it's like a video game, okay? What we do was we developed these play systems with all kinds of symbology, which is unlike -- I mean, I should say which is very similar to the way people play video games, okay, that displays all different kinds of interesting icons. So that was a very interesting experience for me. And in fact, it touches a lot on safety-related issues. And that sort of built up the foundation for me to develop an interest in human factors and safety. So about 12 years ago I transferred over to Johnson Space Center. So because of my background in that area I started working on the Constellation program and also the human research program and did a lot of human factors-related research. Host: So for those who may not know, human factors -- how does human factors relate to the engineering world? Like, how would you define human factors? Doug Wong: Yeah. See, a lot of times when you think about engineering, we're thinking about how the machine -- designing machines, how the machines work, right, the intricate parts of the machines. But we often forgot a major part of any system is the human user, okay? So a lot of times if you don't focus on that, we may develop something that is not to the liking of the user. It can be difficult to use. I'm sure sometimes you may have the experience of using a very difficult-to-use software. You get so frustrated. So that's where the human factors engineering comes in. We try to make sure that the things that we develop have the user in mind. The user should be the center of your design because this is the problem that you want to solve. Right? You want to help the human. Host: Which is -- I mean, that's the whole point of the human spaceflight, right? You can design a system that works, that's robust, that's functional. But if a human can't use it as easily as possible, then maybe it's not as efficient as possible or safe. And that's where the safety comes in. Doug Wong: Yeah, that's part of the safety. Host: Yeah. And that's where you are now, right? Are you in safety and mission assurance? Doug Wong: Yeah, yeah. I think it's kind of, like, a gradual evolution of my career path. So now I'm in the safety area and actually involved in -- to make sure that the things that we design are safe enough for a human to use. Host: So how do you -- so what's your day-to-day stuff then? In safety and mission assurance, what are you doing may be hands-on or otherwise to make sure that whatever component that you're focusing on -- and I think you're focusing on the Orbital ATK Cygnus, right, is that your focus? Doug Wong: Yes, that's correct. Host: So how is the safety and mission assurance component in the overall process of making sure that that vehicle is going to work safely with the ISS and for the crew? Doug Wong: Sure, yeah. Just for those who may not know, so Orbital ATK is one of the commercial companies who are developing these space cargo vehicles and develop cargoes -- deliver cargoes up to the Space Station. So a big part of it is to ensure that the cargo that we deliver up to the station is safe. That has a lot of different aspects of it, one of them being the vehicle itself. We make sure that the vehicle design is sound and that during its operation it won't have any hiccups, okay, for example, malfunctions. Say the engine blows up, that's not a good thing. Right? When you're approaching the Space Station. And even after the cargo vehicle is docked, what happens to the cargo inside? What happens if we have some unsafe cargo that can cause harm to the crew? So all these are things that we have to cover. And once you're starting to depart, we also have to worry about the safety of the station. Again, engine issue, okay? If the engines fire too early, or misfire, something went wrong with the spaceship, then it affects the station. So even though some people may say, "This is just a cargo vehicle, why is safety so important?" But there are these kind of things you have to worry about. Even when it's after orbiting, entering the atmosphere, that could be a potential hazard to people on the ground, too. Host: Yeah. Doug Wong: So all these are things that we have to think about. Host: And I think that's the important part, is it's the perspective that you're approaching it at. So maybe another person is just worried about the cargo itself and making sure that it's snug and packed and it's going to work. Another person's just concerned about the thrusters firing at the right time, at the right place, in the right direction. But you have to come in and make sure that not only are they firing in the right direction, but they're going to do it in a safe manner to make sure that extra perspective is coming in. Doug Wong: That's correct. Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with my part in particular is to oversee all the -- the entire design of the vehicle. Okay? So some engineers, they might be focusing on designing just an engine part, for example. They might overlook in some of the implication of the other side to the other portions. And also to the safety of the crew, for example. So all these are things that I need to look at from a bigger picture perspective to understand what kind of safety implications there are and make corrections to it. Host: So looking back at your education in Hong Kong, moving to your education here, and then you're career at NASA, what are some of the takeaways that really prepared you for doing what you're doing right now, especially in your education? Doug Wong: I think it's the fundamental understanding of some of the basic math and physics, any kind of science topic. I have a very strong background in math and physics in particular. So I'm so surprised, even nowadays I still use some of the concepts regularly. In addition to my regular job, I consider myself an innovator. And right now I'm actually trying to submit a proposal to develop a space nail clipping system in which -- see, in space, in the Space Station, because the crew stay there for a long time, their nails get long, okay? And they need to cut their nails. Host: Oh, yeah. One of those things. Doug Wong: Yeah. But right now -- yeah, right now the way they do it, they just cut it right in front of a vent so a lot of the suction will suck it in, suck the nail clippings in. But that's not a very safe way to do it, and some of the clippings can still airborne. And they can cause, for example, injuries your eyes. And nails may contain pathogens that will cause some disease. So what I'm trying to do is develop an enclosed system that provides a suction. So when the crew clip their nails, the nail clippings are automatically contained into the device. So I'm doing all that. So just incidentally this morning I was struggling with the physics of it. I was trying to figure out what size of pumps do I need to use? So all of a sudden, all the fundamental physics that I used to learn in high school all came back to me [Laughs]. Suddenly I just think, "Wow, I'm in my 50's now and I'm still using the physics that I was taught when I was in high school." So that's something eye-opening to me. Host: So when you go back to the schools, that's what you always usually say, is, "I'm still using this, I still need it in my job right now. So make sure you're paying attention in school right now." Doug Wong: Absolutely. Host: Yes. I feel like that nail clipping thing can be useful for me at home. Doug Wong: Yeah, in fact, I'm trying to file a patent for it. So I see that, for example, people with disability, they will be able to make use of something like that so that they don't have to keep worrying about the clippings flying all over the place. Instead they just go all right into the device. Host: All right. Well, Doug, thank you for your contributions to NASA and for your innovations, coming here and making a difference. So thank you for coming on the podcast and telling your story. Doug Wong: Thank you very much. I really appreciate this opportunity. Host: And that was Doug talking about his journey from Hong Kong to a leader and inventor. So, Adam, who do we have next? Adam Kalil: Next is Charlene Gilbert. She's a technology transfer officer in the Exploration Technology Office. Host: Interesting title and interesting job. So here we go, jumping right ahead to that talk. Well, Charlene, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to tell us your story. Charlene Gilbert: Thanks. Host: So I wanted to start with just growing up and just getting into STEM. Because you went for a math and statistics bachelor's first. And that's not something that I would personally opt for [Laughs]. Charlene Gilbert: So I grew up in a really small town in upper Michigan -- Marquette, Michigan. Had a liberal arts university there. But a lot of the people that I went to school with don't go on to college. It's not typical. But my mother is Japanese and my father was a GI that she met during the Korean War. And then she came to this country in 1954, along with two of my brothers that had been born in Japan. And both of my parents were very adamant that all the kids were going to college, even though we didn't have any money. It didn't make any difference, right? So the thought of you better get a scholarship started really early. So when I was in probably sixth grade, seventh grade, that was -- my mom was really adamant that you need to study hard and work hard because scholarship's the way you're going to college. And we all worked to pay for college. We got scholarships. We borrowed money. But that was -- that was the path that we were all on. So I had two brothers and one sister. And both brothers and myself went to college. And so it was not even debatable; it was just that's where you were going. [ Laughter ] But I always liked science a lot and math a lot when I was in school. And back in those days, young ladies weren't really encouraged to pursue the hard sciences. Right? So first of all, people weren't going to college. They're not encouraged to go to college very much. And then the young ladies aren't really encouraged to go into any of the STEM courses, right? Host: So you did the opposite, then? Charlene Gilbert: Yeah, well. [ Laughter ] So and I think we only had one or widow young ladies that went after an engineering degree in my graduating class of 400. And but for myself, I started in a field of biology because I just really loved it. Host: Oh, yeah. Charlene Gilbert: And I got into it, and then I realized that with a bachelor's degree you weren't going to make very much money. So what's required with a bachelor's is you have to go on for master's and PhD. And it seemed like a really, really long road. And so I thought -- and, you know, again, we were working, everybody in my family working, borrowing money, and scholarships. Host: Yes. Charlene Gilbert: So you're thinking about what can I do for a bachelor's, right, that's going to be meaningful and something I really want to pursue? And I've always really, really loved puzzles. And so I looked and I decided to change my degree over to math and statistics. And it's applied statistics. So it was in the line of market research, doing sample surveys, and doing analysis on data, right? So that's always something that I've enjoyed. And I thought, "Okay, well, I can do that." And I set off on that path. And my plan was to get a master's degree. But when arrived here and I started working in the fields that I was in, I realized that I didn't need more detail in statistics; I needed a broader background in other areas. And so I pursued a space science degree at the University of Clear Lake. Host: So you went -- you had your bachelor's and through your bachelor's came to NASA first before realizing, "I should go back and learn more about space?" Charlene Gilbert: Right. Host: So how did you transfer from this math background to realizing that NASA was an opportunity? Charlene Gilbert: Well, so we -- the class of people in the math department was pretty small. So there was some classes where we filled the first row of seats in the class. That was how small it was. But a friend of mine was able to take a vacation after she graduated. The rest of us were looking for jobs [Laughs] and she took a vacation in Florida, saw a big ad that Ford Aerospace was hiring at the Kennedy Space Center. So she applied. And then they said, "Well, we don't have any positions there, but we've got a new contract in Houston. Space Shuttle's just starting up. And would you be interested?" So she came here, and then they said, "Do you have any more friends? Because we need to hire more people." So she called all of us. And she called me and said, "What are you doing?" And I had been working at an insurance company, doing statistical analysis for them. So I told her. And then I said, "Well, what are you doing?" And she said, "Well, I'm working on the Space Shuttle program." Really? So it went on from there, and she talked me into coming for an interview. And I came down here, and they hired me. And I packed everything up in my little car and drove down here. And people were shocked. They said, you know, "Do you know anybody? Do you have family?" I said, "Well, I have one friend down here," and I showed up. Host: You didn't want to pass that opportunity up? Charlene Gilbert: Well, no, right? I mean, working at the insurance company or working on the Shuttle program, right? But the other thing is when I got down here, I realized that everybody comes from other places. Host: Right. Charlene Gilbert: So a lot of folks showed up with no friends, right? So there were a lot of us that had come from different areas. And we -- we formed friendships. And we had a lot of social activity. And now it's, you know, it's home. Host: Yeah. No, I totally get that. I came here as a co-op student myself and it was the same thing. Charlene Gilbert: Right. Host: You know, it was a brand-new opportunity far away from home. Parents were just like, "That's a little far." But I was like, "I don't want to miss out on this." So, you know, I came down here. But so did a lot of other students my age with the same goal in mind. And then we all just became friends, and we're still friends to this day. So you kind -- it's funny, because you think you're going to be alone, but then you just develop this community because there's a lot of other people in the same boat. Charlene Gilbert: We had some really interesting Thanksgiving dinners, you know, with mixed cultures and these are my favorite foods. Host: Oh, yeah. We have that, too. Friends-giving is what we call it [Laughs]. All right. So you were working for Ford Aerospace first. And then McDonell Douglas shortly after that, was that the order? Charlene Gilbert: Right, right. McDonnell Douglas was quite the engineering company here. And then after -- afterwards, Boeing ended up buying McDonnell Douglas. And so both Ford Aerospace was sold, McDonnell Douglas was sold as all the companies began to merge together. Host: Right. Charlene Gilbert: So but while I was working for Ford Aerospace and when I worked for Ford, I worked in Building 30 and then Mission Control Center. My job was working and doing software development, and software tests, and software maintenance. And it was in the trajectory and logic, which is the mathematics that makes the ground computers work right. Host: So you weren't necessarily sitting on console, doing the trajectory; you were making the magic happen so that that person knew they had good software. Charlene Gilbert: We had a dual job. So our job was to sit in the back room, support the FIDO, and track and dynamics. And then also when you weren't doing that shift, you're in the office, trying to fix the software to make the computer work. And back then they had the really big mainframes. And so it was a lot more challenging. Host: Yeah, I can imagine. So first you started off in operations, and then I guess you stuck around at Johnson Space Center. Right? So kind of -- Charlene Gilbert: So then I had a chance to go over. My friend again [Laughs] moved, and she got me started in the track and dynamics area. And then she jumped to McDonnell Douglas, working in the payloads area. And she got me to move over. And so I followed her over there and I was working on attached payloads and Spacelab. And so that went on for a while. And then there was a big contract change and McDonnell Douglas didn't win the contract. So pretty soon, you know, the choice was either to move to the new contract or find employment elsewhere. And I really wanted to stay here, but I was not really keen on moving to the new contract. And then I was fortunate, the civil servants NASA group that I had worked with before in Building 30 had an opening and they were able to hire. And so I was able to come on board. Host: All right. Charlene Gilbert: Right back where I started doing the track and dynamics kind of work. So. Host: And then being civil servant, that's when you started moving -- throughout your whole career moved around. And you had your fingers in a lot of different areas, including the one that I really wanted to highlight is your position now. You're a technology transfer officer. That's interesting. So what do they do? Charlene Gilbert: Well, so federal law says it's our responsibility to transfer the technology and research results from federal funding, right, out into the public for economic growth, economic benefit, economic security. So each of the NASA field centers has a technology transfer officer. Actually, all of the federal labs are required to have a technology transfer officer. And their job is to ensure that they are compliant with tech transfer and try to the best of their ability to make it happen. Host: It's a very -- I guess it's a process to actually take the technology that we develop at NASA and, correct me if I'm wrong, give it to the private industry. Charlene Gilbert: Right. Host: Give it to private industry. Charlene Gilbert: So it's not like you put it in a bucket and you give to them, right? Host: Yeah. Charlene Gilbert: So there's a lot of steps they have to go through to make sure that it's appropriate, right? But some of the technology ends up in patents, which are licensed by companies that are looking to either improve their business or start a business, right? So people say, "Well, why don't you just give it away?" Well, if -- there's no competitive edge when you have something that everybody else has. Host: Right. Charlene Gilbert: So a license to a patent gives you the ability to use that patent and can exclude others. It depends what type of license you have. You can have an exclusive license, which means nobody else can use that patent and you're the only one -- that's the strongest competitive edge that you would have, right? Host: Right. Charlene Gilbert: But we also have software that is developed here that is unique. We do a lot of analysis and special software tools that we have. And those are also made available to the public for their use. Host: All right. So I'm sure you've worked with a lot of different technologies, especially in the transfer as an officer, but what's one that you really, really like to highlight, say this has been one that you really like to showboat sort of? Charlene Gilbert: Well, I think the Bigelow inflatable structures is probably the one that is probably very well known and we're really proud of. Host: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good story, too, because it's a technology that we developed here, but now it's -- I mean, you're talking about the Bigelow expandable activity module? Charlene Gilbert: Right. Host: We've actually talked about it before on this podcast, which is great, but I mean, didn't really realize or didn't really address that it was a technology transfer, that we're taking this technology and working with -- it was Bigelow's company, right? Charlene Gilbert: Right Host: And now we have actual hardware that has been tested on the International Space Station. And last I heard it's going to stay there. Charlene Gilbert: Yes, right? And so the next step after that would be -- he's a very shrewd businessman, right? He has a very long-term vision. Host: Oh, yeah. Charlene Gilbert: And he has always talked about creating private structures, right? It may be a private Space Station, it might be a hotel for tourism. But his thought in the very beginning was to create a new, new industry structure for the United States -- a manufacturing capability. So he's always had a really long-range vision, which I think really gave us confidence in licensing this technology to him that he was going to take it and make something of it that turns into a commercial venture, right? But all along the way, right, he created this aerospace company, Bigelow Aerospace Company. He made tremendous financial investment in the north Las Vegas area. So jobs were being created and products were being created. And new knowledge was being created. Host: Wow, shows the real potential of a piece of technology that, handed over to private industry, now it's becoming -- it's real. It's a real piece of technology. A lot of the people work on it, right? And it's for developing the space business, I guess. That's a fantastic concept. Charlene Gilbert: Yes. Host: Well, Charlene, thank you so much for coming on, and telling your story, and giving us a little bit of insight into this wonderful world of technology transfer. Charlene Gilbert: All right. Glad to be here. Thank you. Host: Of course. Okay, that was Charlene Gilbert talking about her journey to her current role in exploration technology as a technology transfer officer. It's a pretty cool job. So one more to go. Who is our last guest? Adam Kalil: Okay, Gary. Last is Ven Fang [assumed spelling]. He's the manager of the International Space Station Transportation Integration Office, meaning he's in charge of the integration and verification of all the vehicles that visit the Space Station -- the cargo vehicles like Orbital ATK Cygnus and SpaceX Dragon, the international partners' vehicles like the Russian Soyuz and the Japanese HTV, and soon the commercial crew vehicles from Boeing and SpaceX. Host: Yeah, it's not like he's looking after one thing; he looks after all of those things. It's a pretty cool job. So Producer Alex, let's do that final warp to that final talk. Ven, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to tell us your story. Ven Fang: It's a real pleasure being here. Thanks for the invitation. Host: Of course. I kind of wanted to start with -- as I've been doing with all the other guests so far -- is just how it all began, especially when you got interested in STEM and when you grew up and got interested in science technology. Ven Fang: Sure, sure. I'd say when I was very young. So I grew up in northern Alabama where the skies were very dark at night, and my father and my sister and I would lay outside on the hills at night. And we would watch the stars. So my dream and aspiration every since I was a small kid was to be an astronomer or maybe travel there myself as an astronaut. And this was in the late '60s. So, of course, it was in the news a lot. So for me at that time science fiction and science were sort of blended. And I always sort of thought or knew maybe early on that I wanted to go into a STEM field. Host: So were you, like, a Trekkie fan or anything like that? Or mainly just looking at the stars, telescopes or anything? Ven Fang: Oh, absolutely. I could name the title of every Star Trek show -- Host: Oh, really? Ven Fang: -- within about 20 seconds of it starting when I was a kid. Host: Wow, now that's a fan. Okay. Very cool. So then at what point did you decide, you know, through your childhood really looking at the science fiction, especially with Star Trek, but then realizing that maybe STEM was a field that you really wanted to pursue? Ven Fang: You know, I really had very broad interests. You know, as a kid I was always very interested in math and science. I also liked sports. For a long time I thought I would go into business but I would go into a business that would help me -- that would use my math and science background to, you know, further myself in some sort of type of business or in some other commercial venture. And I think that combination really sort of led me to where I am now, which was here at NASA but helping with commercial partners for the commercial resupply missions and for commercial crew coming up here in the future as well. Host: Yeah, that's right. Because your job position now is working with those companies, right, with a lot of them? Ven Fang: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. So I've worked -- in the past I've worked Space Shuttle and Spacelab. And I've been with the Space Station program now for sometime. In my current job I'm helping with the fleet of spacecraft that come to and from the Space Station. And, of course, they have a fleet of five now, including two US vehicles, as well as two vehicles from Russia and one from Japan. But we have two more on the horizon here in the next year or so. And then we have another US commercial crew vehicle, a commercial cargo vehicle coming a few years down the line, and another Japanese one in the future. So we're going to be taking our fleet of five spacecraft today and expanding those as they come to and from the Space Station in the coming years. Host: So what are the five that you're working with right now, then? Ven Fang: Let's see. Today we're working with the US vehicles, our Orbital ATK Cygnus and the SpaceX Dragon. With the Russians we have the Russian Progress and Soyuz. And with the Japanese partners we have the HTV -- H-II Transfer Vehicle. Host: Okay. So those are all cargo. These are all cargo vehicles. Ven Fang: Yeah, with the exception of the Russian Soyuz [inaudible]. Host: And the Soyuz, right. Okay. So then -- yeah, besides the Soyuz, all of these different companies are developing these cargo vehicles to work with one vehicle, right, the International Space Station. So is that where you come in with you are working to make sure that, you know, these companies are going to be able to -- when they create these unique vehicles, it's going to work with the Space Station? Ven Fang: Absolutely right. So there's so many factors that go into how do you launch a spacecraft from the planet, catch it up to the Space Station traveling at 17,500 miles per hour orbiting the planet, and then have it close to a very safe distance, and then ultimately come up and either birth or dock to the Space Station? So we help, and there's so many aspects that. There's guidance, navigation, and control. There's structural systems, thermal systems, life support systems, and so forth. So there's just a lot of different aspects that my group, my team helps to look at to make sure that they can come up both safely and operate with a high probability of mission success. Host: So you think you have -- is it a fairly large team or is it a small group of people that are working with all these different companies? Ven Fang: Let's see, our Transportation Integration Office, we typically staff between two to three people -- persons -- person vehicle. But, of course, we're relying on a huge team of folks from engineering and each of the engineering disciplines, from operations, from safety, cargo integration, and so forth. So there's really quite a pretty extensive team. So we've got a small team that's helping to do the integration of the contract management of those vehicles or the international partner integration. And then but we really rely on a lot of experts in a lot of areas as well. Host: That's right. So your team is sort of -- I guess you are going to make sure that you are, I guess -- in the Transportation Integration Office, you're mainly getting all these components together. Is that your role, then, making sure everybody's working together and executing this to make sure it happens? Ven Fang: That's absolutely right. So we've got the technical integration, there's a schedule integration. There's also, you know, there's -- any spacecraft integration is difficult, right? Working with all the various launch vehicles, as well as the spacecraft, there can be risks as well -- risk from a cost perspective, from schedules, as well as from a technical. So we really make sure that we mitigate all of those to whether or not elevated risk many of those areas. But if they are, then we make sure that we inform our program manager and headquarters up the line in case there are any remaining risks so that as a nation we can go forward and decide eyes wide open do we want do proceed with this particular mission or this particular configuration? Host: Wow. Okay. So you're just keeping track of everything and making sure when it comes down to the mission, everything's going to work, really. Ven Fang: Mm-hmm. Host: How is it with working with so many companies, then? Because I'm sure that each one is different in its own way. So it's not like you can apply the same sort of -- maybe you do apply mainly the same rules, but it must be different working with each one. Ven Fang: It is. Every single one is different. Just like every individual is different, every team and every company or every international partner has its own culture and blending of individuals, right? And they've all come to us not only from a different culture but from a different spacecraft heritage, right? So it is very different working. And it's funny. As just one example of that, if I have -- we work with several different contractors as I mentioned before. So we work with Orbital ATK, we work with SpaceX, we work with Sierra Nevada. And each of those companies has its own sort of culture. But if I go -- I'm off on business trips and when I go and I'll pack, I'll literally have to pack -- not have to pack -- I'll choose to pack different sets of clothing essentially for each of those places. Because the culture in each of these industries and each of those companies is different from company to company. And that's just a very minor example of they're just different. They come from different heritages, and they have different perspectives on things. But they're all based in the same set of requirements that we laid on each of those US contractors. It's a document called SSP50808. And it defines, it aggregates all those things that we learned from the Shuttle program, from Station side of the interface, and really have their heritage from the very early Apollo, Gemini, and Mercury programs as well. And we put those all into one book and given those to industry. And that's what they're building their vehicles to -- the interface of their vehicles to. Host: I see. So it's essentially create your own identity, do what you think is best; but whatever you do, it has to fit these requirements. You have to make sure you're playing by these rules. Otherwise it's not going to work. We're not going to be able to play ball, I guess. Ven Fang: Yep, that's correct. So you can see the vehicles and just from their physical appearance, you can see they're very different vehicles. But when they comes to Station, they all have to match up perfectly. Host: Yeah. Ven Fang: Even in the early days of Space Station there was a lot of the discussion, "Well, are we going to do things in English units of measure or in metric?" Host: Oh, yeah. Ven Fang: And even then once we selected metric, once you look at metric, there's actually different standards for metric as well. So once you get out there four or five decimal places, there can be small differences, which can then end up making differences in making sure everything connects correctly up on orbit. Host: Oh, wow. Even the units that you're using can translate. Now, that's just talking about cargo vehicles. But you are already talking about looking forward at commercial crew. Now, I'm sure that's going to be -- it's going to be a challenge of its own. Because now you're not just dealing with just equipment; now you're dealing with people. So is that a little bit harder of a world because -- is there extra constraints? Ven Fang: There absolutely are. We look at things from having humans on board, there's going to be a different set of interfaces and controls that are in place for human-rated systems. Now, these cargo vehicles still have human interfaces as in they go to Station, they become attached, and our crew members go in and out of them. So they also have to adhere to human-rating standards. But with the commercial crew vehicles, absolutely. If we're going to have people on board for the time it takes to get on orbit and perhaps at any -- if there's cases where they may stay longer on orbit inside that vehicle, there's going to be accommodations for those humans as well. So absolutely, we have to consider all those aspects. Host: It's just amazing, the broad scope of things that you and your team really have to manage. And you're the manager of this group, right? The Transportation Integration Office. So and you've had quite a career at NASA in various aspects. You were a programmer, instructor for flight controller, working in payloads, working in avionics. You were kind of all over the place but eventually got to this management position. And so what did you have to do and what were your goals to sort of work up the ladder and really hone your skills into management to look at something so broad? Ven Fang: That's interesting. I -- I think my overall guiding principles, I always wanted to do something that made a difference beyond myself for a longer period, you know, perhaps hundreds or an even longer horizon. And for me, when I looked around after college, a lot of friends of mine as we were going through college went to work in different industries. And when I really took a look around and as I was within a couple years of graduation, really deciding which way I'm going to funnel my efforts in the future, really discerned that space flight is really where I wanted to be. And smaller and even more targeted than that, human space flight. And then so when I looked around, it really became the center -- Johnson Space Center, which is what really interested me. So once I got here, as quickly as I could, I went to go work for the Space Shuttle and Spacelab programs. And from there, within the overall broad umbrella of I want to do things that make a difference, I looked at what those things were that really interested me. So at the time Space Shuttle -- of course, I grew up just watching every Space Shuttle launch. And Space Station was the next new thing that I really wanted to contribute to and be a part of. So I came to Space Station. Within Space Station it's been a wonderful career being able to try different areas. So I've got to go through quite a number of different areas and work in a lot of different areas. And I think really that desire to do that as well as a lot of the opportunities and a lot of great folks I've worked with and for in the past really enabled me to try a lot of different areas and really sort of culminated in the ability to be able to do this integration job where I can look across many different systems and subsystems and really apply things that I learned in the past to our next generation of vehicles. Host: Yeah. Now, besides the broad scope of technical expertise that you've acquired over the years, there's also this idea of managing people and getting everyone to work together and enjoy the jobs that they're doing and make sure that all of these requirements are being filled. So how do you as a manager make sure that all of this is being done and in the most fluid and efficient manner possible? Ven Fang: I'd say it really -- there is no single way [Laughs]. Right? I think the most important overarching thing is to align the organizational needs with the individuals' goals as well. And that way what individuals want to do, if you can put them in the right positions that help further their goals at the same time as furthering the organization's goals, then everybody's happy. Host: Yeah. Ven Fang: I also try to provide near real-time feedback -- in public if it's praise; and in private if it's an opportunity for improvement. And then I also try to recognize folks. I think everybody has a different way in which or different ways in which they like to be recognized. Some like public recognition. Some may like an on-the-spot award. Some may want a time-off award in order to go spend more time with their family. Others may want those plum assignments and they're just -- they just constantly want more and more. And if they get those big media assignments, that really invigorates them. So really just trying to align what the organization needs to get done with what each individual really -- what really excites them. Host: I love it. So looking forward to the future, you have all these different vehicles that you're working with and working with businesses here in the US but also international partners. There's a lot going on and a lot going on in the future; what's the thing you're looking forward to most? Ven Fang: Gosh, I think we're at a real -- you know, it was very interesting. Just a few years ago with the transition from the old previous program called Constellation, then retirement of the Space Shuttle, you know, NASA sort of came to an end of the Shuttle chapter. And then that was a time where there was a little question about, you know, what's really the next step? And I think it's really exciting now because I think you see a lot of public interest, commercial interest, international interest, political interest in space. And there's a lot of exciting things going on right now. On the Space Station we've really hit our groove. And I think that we are doing so many interesting scientific experiments onboard Space Station. We have commercial industry participating. I would say seven or eight years ago, we weren't sure that commercial industry on a firm fixed-price basis could develop new rockets and new spacecraft and resupply the Space Station. On an international front, we've been working with these 15 countries on the International Space Station for -- this year it will be 20 years, which is a pretty amazing thing, given all the things that are happening or have happened on the planet over the last 20 years. And in many other areas, diplomatically, militarily some of those countries weren't always best of friends, but on the Space Station I would say that we have always, without an exception, pulled together to make sure that we did the right things for the crew and for the vehicle and for the partnership. Host: That's wonderful. Just laying it out like that, that's such a nice -- like, that's such a nice overview of just the state that we are right now, looking backwards but then also looking forwards to say just based on looking at this environment that we're working in right now, there's so much that can still happen. And there's so many different ways to grow. So thank you, Ven, for coming on and telling your story and kind of giving us this broad perspective of Space Station and what's to come. Ven Fang: Great. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I appreciate it. Host: Well, Adam, that wraps up our guests for this episode. Thanks for helping to get these incredible people to come on and tell their stories. Adam Kalil: Sure, my pleasure. I'm glad to be here, Gary. And thank you for this great show and for this great opportunity to share and know our co-workers in the workforce. Host: Oh, I was really happy to do it. They were -- honestly, it was really a pleasure to talk to each and every one of them. They have interesting stories and interesting jobs, too. Really, I mean, they do a lot of important stuff. I just love talking to all of these great people. So if you want to know -- if you want to learn more from other great people, you can listen to other episodes of this podcast. This was episode 46. But really, you don't really need to listen to them in any particular order. You can just go back and listen to any one. And there's some great stories. I would definitely recommend listening to Stories of Her Strength from Women's History Month and African-American History Month episodes also -- really good podcasts and really good guests that we have there. Otherwise you can listen to some of our friends over at other centers. NASA in Silicon Valley over at Ames Research Center has a podcast. And then Gravity Assists is the podcast over at headquarters hosted by Dr. Jim Green to talk about planetary science. Otherwise you can follow the NASA Johnson Space Center on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And use the hashtag #askNASA to ask a question or maybe suggest an episode for a future talk where we can bring in guests and tell more stories. Just be sure to mention it's for Houston, We Have a Podcast. So this podcast, this episode was recorded all through the month of May 2018 thanks to Alex Perryman, Kelly Humphries, Pat Ryan, Bill Stafford, and, of course, to Adam here for helping to bring it all together. Thank you, Adam. Adam Kalil: Sure, thanks. Host: And thanks again to all of our guest for coming today on this show – Krystine Bui, Doug Wong, Charlene Gilbert, and Ven Fang. Happy Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month. We'll be back next week. [ Music ] Houston, go ahead. of the Space Shuttle. Roger, zero G and I feel fine. Shuttle has cleared the [inaudible]. We came in peace for all mankind. It's actually a huge honor to break a record like this. Not because they are easy but because they are hard. Houston, welcome to space.

hwhap_Ep11_Mission Control

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-09-22

>> Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center; episode eleven, Mission Control. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So, on this podcast we bring in the experts. As scientists, engineers, astronauts, Flight Controllers, all to tell you all the coolest information about NASA. But, we're not the only NASA podcast to do so. As you may know, the Cassini Mission came to a close last week on September 15th, 2017 by literally diving into Saturn. It has made some amazing discoveries, collecting critical data on the ring planet, Saturn and the icy moon Enceladus. And, even landing a probe, the Huygens probe, on the geologically fascinating moon Titan. If you want to hear more about what Cassini did and learned, check out the NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast. Our friends over at NASA Ames Research Center talked with some of the experts on a few episodes, actually, about the mission and what they've learned about the sixth planet and its moons. And, of course, a big congratulations to the scientist and engineers who work so hard to make this mission such a success. So, today, here, on Houston, We Have a Podcast we're talking about mission control with Mary Lawrence. She's a Flight Director here, at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, and we had a great discussion about what it's like inside mission control, what it takes to be a Flight Controller and a Flight Director, how mission control has evolved, and what it may look like in the future. So, with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mrs. Mary Lawrence. Enjoy. [ Music ] >> T-minus five seconds and counting. Mark. [ Music ] The launch to [inaudible] headlights are correct. >> And there she goes. >> Houston, We Have a Podcast. [ Music ] >> Well, it's great to see you again. Last time I saw you we were working on the Everything About MCC video. Very fast paced. >> Yeah >> And did pretty well on Facebook. Four hundred and fifty thousand views. Famous. >> That's a lot. I try not to think about that, really. >> [laughs] But it was so fun. It was like, I mean we title it Everything. I mean it wasn't really everything, but it was, it was like fast paced information. You got to know more about Mission Control than I guess people would normally kind of find out. And we got to be on the floor. It's kind of different though, that they didn't have the titles up there, you know. We we're mission that Flight Director, GC. Those kinds of things. >> Yeah, remind me again. We'll make improvements for next time, right. >> For the next one. Okay, so welcome to the podcast. For this one we don't have to be as wrapped in fire, so that's good. >> Okay. >> We can kind of take our time. But today we are here to talk about Mission Control, and I feel like you're the perfect person to do this, because you are a Flight Director. You're in that, you're in Mission Control making all the decisions. And I guess that's sort of what a Flight Controller does. Or, sorry. A Flight Director does, right. You're kind of the, the main person in that room. >> That's right, yes. >> Okay. >> The Flight Director is the lead of the flight control team. So, they're kind of the final decision maker and real-time spacecraft operations. >> Cool. And you do that how often, in general? >> I spend a lot of time on console. I'm one of the newer Flight Directors. >> Okay. >> So probably spend a little more time on console than some of the more experienced guys that have a lot more assignments. >> I see. >> But I would say over the past year I probably pulled about a hundred shifts. >> Whoa. >> So, one shift is about eight to nine hours long. Eight hours with a one-hour hand over period. And, we do that every few weeks. We're on console for a string of anywhere from one to seven shifts I would say. >> Okay. And there three shifts in a day, right? It's just how, because you have that hand over period so nine, nine, nine. You guys can exchange your information and pass that on to the next person. >> That's right. We have the day shift and then the swing shift, which is three to midnight, and then the overnight. >> All right. >> Shift. The fun one. >> The fun one. [laughing] Well awesome, so, I'm really excited about this topic because whenever you think about NASA, and you know, NASA as a whole, really, but also the Johnson Space Center, you think of Mission Control. You think of, you know, the people sitting at the desks, looking at the screens, watching and controlling the mission. And, that mission being [inaudible] human space flight missions, especially the ones to the moon. You know you think about the legendary Gene Kranz, and you think about some of those key players in the Apollo landings and everything else to make the space race happen. >> Sure. >> Or, you know, to win the space race and make human space flight possible, landing on the moon. So, very excited about this, you're on the ground floor. You're making all the decisions as you just said. Kind of describe the set up, you know, what are you seeing when you're sitting at the flight director desk, what's all the data in front of you? What are you looking at? You know, and what's it like without the ambiance, the vibe? >> Sure. So, like you said it is kind of an inspiring place to work. >> Yeah. >> So, you're working in a hallway where giants of human space flight operations walked before you. >> For sure. >> So, it's always a very inspirational thing to even walk into the building and see Chris Kraft's name written, you know, in big letters on the side, so. >> Yeah. >> I agree with you from that aspect, and then inside the room, of course, it's very modernized compared to how they flew spacecrafts back then. We have, basically, computer systems and lots of screens filled with data. That data's coming from the computer network essentially on the space craft. So, on the international space station, in this example. And then, it's sent down through a satellite, a network of satellites, and to more computers here on the ground, where it displays data so that the Flight Controllers can interpret, basically, the health and status of whatever system they are monitoring. So, at any given time we can see whether or not a light fails onboard, for example. Or a thruster, or something more significant. We can see if there is a fire onboard based on the monitoring of the smoke detectors. >> Okay. So. >> So, we can monitor all of the data. >> Yeah, and so that's essentially what you're doing, especially for International Space Station, right? You. >> That's correct. >> The mission, in this example, that you're controlling is the flight of the International Space Station and the operations of that. And, the things that you're looking at and everyone in the room, and I guess outside the room too, and we can get into that later, but they're looking at data. Different types of data coming from the International Space Station. >> There looking at data based on this system that they are in charge of. >> Okay. >> So, the spacecraft is kind of divided into, what we call systems, so you can think of it like the computer system is one system, the communications system is another, environmental system. So, everything that the crew needs to kind of live onboard is grouped under one flight control team. >> Okay. >> So, we have an entire console dedicated to just tracking the stowage onboard. So, as you can imagine there's a lot of stuff. >> Yes. >> That we have to keep track of. Anything from crew food to replacement computers or replacement electrical parts. We have to be able to plan for things to break and to be able to replace them. So, we have a bunch of spares, so we have an entire console position that's really dedicated to tracking all of those things so we know where it is. >> Yeah, and the crew, too, right? They can call down and say, "Hey I lost this, can you find it for me?" And then you have that person on console that can actually. >> Exactly. >> Find that for you. >> Exactly. So, everyone is monitoring their data, but they're also, they're using procedures, what we call procedures, which are kind of steps that guide you and how to fly the spacecraft, in a way. So, we're also sending commands from the ground. >> Okay. >> Where we can turn lights on and off, or we can hand over attitude control to the Russian segments. And, you know, it kind of helps guide us through any operation to essentially fly a space station from the ground. >> So, it, I mean, I'm guessing, you know, based on what you're saying communication is just vital to all of this. Everyone has to talking. So, how does that work? You know, how is everyone, is everyone just on like a big chatter or are you, can you talk to specific people? How does that communication set up work? >> You can really talk to anyone you need to. >> Cool. >> So, you'll notice people in that room have headsets on. >> Yes. >> And, we talk over what's called voice loops. >> Okay. >> So, every console position has a loop that's dedicated to them. So, if someone wants to call them, they can call in a specific loop. And then, there's also loops that everyone really listens to. We call the space to ground loops or the loops that the crew calls down to Mission Control on, so everyone is listening to those loops at any given time. >> Oh, okay. >> Only certain people are enabled to talk back to them on those loops. But everyone is listening to those. There's a loop to talk to the Flight Director, and everyone is listening to the Flight Director loop. So, I generally talk to everyone on the flight loop so that everyone can hear the conversations that we're having and the decisions that are being made. But, if I want to talk to someone and not everyone else needs to hear it I can call on certain other loops. So, I can talk to our international partners, for example. I can coordinate with the European Flight Director or the Japanese Flight Director or the Russian Flight Director on other coordination loops as well. >> So, that's, is that part of your job, is to handle that coordination? Or do you have someone in the room that is dedicated to that as well? >> A little bit of both. >> Okay. >> So, all of the teams are kind of talking to each other based on their roles and responsibilities. But, it is my job to do the overall leading. So, we share responsibility with the Russian Flight Director. And, I also have to coordinate with the other international partners, kind of all over the world. So. >> All right. >> Yeah. We're talking to everyone all the time. >> Yeah, constant, constant talking. So, you kind of talk with everyone on the Flight Director loop. People are listening back, but. So, how does that, so say you know, an astronaut calls down, and we'll use the inventory guy, and that's ISO, is that console. It is a console, right? ISO. >> That's correct. >> So, they'll call down, and they'll say, "Hey, where is this?" ISO knows where it is, but then, you said, you know, only certain people can talk back to them. Who are those people, and how does that work? >> Right. So, the crew would call down and ask a question. Of course, everyone is listening to that question. The person that has the answer to the question would respond on the flight loop. >> Yeah. >> With the answer. >> Okay. >> And so, they would call the Flight Director and answer the crew's question. Of course, then, flight would decide whether or not that is what we want to call up to the crew. >> Yeah. >> And, that information gets also heard by what we call the Capcom who's the Capsule Communication, what's that short for. >> I see. >> And, they are the ones that talk directly to the crew. So, they're talking to one consistent person who they usually know. A lot of times, it is a fellow astronaut that sits in that chair, and they're talking to them consistently for, you know, an eight hour time period. >> Okay. So, it is kind of a chain. So, they'll call to the general space to ground. Everyone's listening to that, and ISO's a part of that conversation. But, he's going to be, he or she is going to be notifying the Flight Director, everyone in the room. You know, I understand this message. Here's where it is, but then Capcom's going to send that back up. >> Capcom's going to package the information. >> Okay. >> And send it up to the crew. >> So, this is, so this is kind of like, I guess we're talking mainly international space station operations, right? So, this is like a, this is like a normal day. This is, people are calling down. You're talking back and forth. People are looking at data. But, what other things can you train for? You know, what is, what other things can a Flight Controller do? The Flight Controller being the person sitting in Mission Control, the general person? >> Right. Well, we train for all sorts of operations, so. >> Okay. >> And, the majority of the time, we're on console really for what we call increment operations which is just day to day operations for the crew. >> Okay. >> And, right now, for International Space Station, the goal and the focus for the crew is to perform science onboard. >> Okay. So, we do a lot of the day to day flying of the space station to make sure that the crew can do what only astronauts can do. >> Okay. >> Which is science in space. So, they, for the majority of their day now, are doing science experiments and such. So, we're just enabling them to be able to do that. >> I see. >> As part of our job. But, there are days where we call them, you know, high tempo ops or critical operations such as EVAs, or we're getting ready for a vehicle to dock to the space station, or there's some really highly coordinated, intense operations that we practice for ahead of time. We spend, you know, weeks to months preparing for those types of operations, and then we have kind of a specialized team or a flight specific team that will support for the day of the operation. >> And, that's like, a, you know, when you say EVA, a spacewalk. So, you. >> Spacewalk. Exactly. >> So, this is all coordinating ahead of time. You come into the room and have a dedicated team that knows, you know, what's going on for this spacewalk. But then, I guess, you know, how much of the room changes? You have that dedicated team, but is everyone focusing mainly on their part, too, so you can see, like you said, one of the systems was the life support, the environmental person, the person that's concerned about. So, are they just looking at that, or are they, is their role changed as well? >> Their role hasn't changed. >> Okay. >> It might expand a little bit. You know, they might be doing additional operations that they don't normally do on a normal day. >> Okay. >> But, they're essentially working the same system, and they're working within the same system boundary that they would and that they've trained for. But, there's additional Flight Controllers that do show up on busier days like that. Like, the EVA Officer, for example. >> EV, yeah, yeah. >> They don't support all the time, but they come in and support when we're actually doing spacewalks or preparing to do space walks. >> Yeah, because they know the intricate details of what that's going to take, right? They know every procedure, and you, they can make recommendations based on their knowledge. >> Right. They're in charge of pulling off that operation, and they know everything about it and the equipment that it takes to do so. >> I like that terminology. Did you say high tempo operations? >> High tempo ops, yeah. >> So, dockings and, so what if cargo vehicle. You know, obviously, astronauts are going to run out of stuff, and then they want new stuff. Do experiments, and obviously they need more food, and you need to put fuel and supplies, all that kind of stuff. So, that's part of the high tempo stuff, right? You got cargo missions going up and down. >> That's right. >> You got people going up and down. So, it's kind of a dynamic environment. So, what other things besides, you know, International Space Station can we be, are you guys thinking about? You know, I know, for example, EFT-1 a couple years ago. How was that, how was that different from a Mission Control standpoint versus, you know, I guess normal operations of the International Space Station. >> Right. It's really kind of exciting time for. >> Yeah. >> For NASA I would say. We have the International Space Station, so we're doing really great science and learning a lot about what it would take to do kind of deep space operations where we're in space for a long duration, period of time. And, that's kind of the idea with the International Space Station as kind of a platform to try out technology and learn a lot more about humans living in space for a long duration. But, it's not, it's only 200 miles in the sky. >> Okay. >> So, it's in what we call low Earth orbit. So. >> Yeah. >> We would really need a really big rocket, similar to what we did back in the Apollo days to take us to the moon. [ Inaudible Comment ] To take us to, yeah, to take us to what we call deep space. >> Right. >> And, that's the Orion Project that you alluded to. So, we did test flight of the SLS which is the rocket that they're building that will launch Orion to those deep space missions. >> Yeah. >> So, we're, as the operations team, we're just right now learning about the design of the rocket and trying to give input to the engineers that are designing the rocket. >> Okay. >> Designing the capsule that will take us to deep space. So, when it's time to design the actual mission and operation to do that, we're ready because we've been working on understanding the capabilities of the spacecraft. >> Yeah. >> And then, our team'll work to, you know, design the rendezvous profile to help take us to wherever we're going to go. >> Okay. >> And, we'll understand a lot about the spacecraft, and I imagine we'll be structured similar to how we are today where the system, the spacecraft will be broken up into various system. That's how it was for the test flight. And, we supported form a different room in Mission Control to support that mission. >> Yeah. So, I'm guessing it'll be, you know, a lot of the same folks that have their specialties will be kind of associated with that same specialty in a way on, I guess, EM-1 will be Exploration Mission One which is what they're calling it now for the one that they're going to test the SLS, the Space Launch System, the deep space rocket with Orion. So, like, you know, the life support people will be looking at the life support, and the thermal guys will be looking at the thermal. You know, those, so you're going to have, kind of similar roles or like. >> It's going to be very similar. >> Yeah. >> To that. >> Okay. >> Of course, there'll be a Flight Director that leads the team. >> Sure. >> And, we already have Flight Directors assigned to working on those missions. >> Oh, cool. >> And, we'll have systems, you know, controlled by Flight Controllers. The one unique thing that we haven't done since, really, the shuttle day is the [inaudible] entry aspect of the mission. So, the actual controlling of the operations of launch and. >> Okay. >> Reentry. Of course, we partner, you know, with the launch control team that will be. >> Yeah. >> In Florida. >> In Florida. >> As well. >> Okay. >> For those similar to how it was in the shuttle days, but we haven't done. >> So, how was it? >> We haven't done, you know, launch and reentry since the shuttle program. >> Right. Yeah. Back in 2011, and how did that work? It was, so from my understanding, Kennedy Space Center in Florida, they do all the launch operations, and then it gets to, at what point does Johnson Space Center take over? >> I don't know the agreements that we have. >> Okay. >> For EFT, or for the Orion missions yet, but. >> Okay. >> It's shortly after liftoff is where the handover really occurs. >> Okay, I mean, you guys have training for that whole process going from shortly after liftoff right through the atmosphere and whatever mission they decide to do. >> Yep. We're sitting in the control center here in Houston also monitoring the systems as they prepare for launch, and then shortly after launch, they would hand over to the control team here in Houston. >> Cool. So, for each of those, each of those positions, you know, it's not like you just sit down and start looking at data and you know what to do. Obviously, there's going to be some practice that kind of goes with learning that role and becoming, you know, having that title of Flight Controller. So, what does that look like? >> It's a fairly intensive training program. >> Okay. >> So, most people that come in have an engineering background. I'd say that's the most common degree, but a space science related background are also common. So, you come in already with kind of an engineering way of thinking. >> Okay. >> And then, you're taken, within your team, to really start learning specifics about the system. So, you spend a fair amount of time just learning how the system works. Once you get deep enough into your training flow, you start into what we call simulations where you practice doing mission operations. >> Yeah, working with those systems. >> That's right. And, you're evaluated at various points throughout your training to make sure that you're on track. >> Okay. >> And, once you pass your final evaluation, you spend some amount of time on console probably with a mentor or someone sitting next to you that's been doing the job, and they're evaluating how you perform real time. And, that takes probably about a year and a half to make it into. >> Wow. >> Your first certification. >> Wow. I mean, you know, when you're sitting there, you have a lot of responsibility, right? So, at these, in these simulations, and I'm assuming you do these quite a few times, right? You know, this is not just one or two simulations. >> That's right. >> You're doing. >> Several. Yes. >> Several. You know, I always equate it to, I mean, I'm not a Flight Controller, but I was a lifeguard. So, I kind of know, like, you have to know a lot of stuff, but you're not necessarily, for the most part, you're sitting and watching the pool. But, when stuff, you know, when stuff happens, you have to know. >> You have to be ready. >> Exactly what to do. >> That's right. >> So, I'm assuming it's kind of the same, right, so. >> Very similar. >> That's what a simulation is. A simulation is stuff happens. They throw something at you, and you have to know exactly what to do and [inaudible]. >> That's right. We have a pretty high-fidelity simulator that simulates data just like we would be seeing from the actual spacecraft. So, it's. >> Okay. >> Really hard to distinguish looking at simulation data versus real time data. The simulator is really good that way. Then, we have a team of instructors sitting in a different building, kind of across campus here that are putting in malfunctions and have scripted kind of a fun, difficult case for us to be able to handle as a team. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. They throw everything at you, and you got to be ready. >> They're really good at it. >> Those are long, too, right? You kind of, I mean, you're going to be doing the simulations for a couple hours, right? >> They're usually about eight hours, similar to our. >> Like a full shift, then, okay. >> To our shifts. Yeah. >> Cool. So, when you think about the folks that are at the console, are they, are they flying solo for that console? Are, I mean, there's something called a backroom, right? And so, you're going to have support? You're going to have people, extra people looking at the same data? >> That's right. >> Helping you make decisions? >> Sometimes. >> Okay. >> So, on real quiet times, you know, increment operations time periods, when it's the weekend. >> Okay. >> In the middle of the night, we try to go down to the minimal amount of people needed. So, in those cases, you wouldn't necessarily be talking to a lot of people in the backrooms. But, during those high tempo operations that I was talking about, the EVAs, visiting vehicles, or even really busy days on orbit, we would definitely have a lot of people supporting from backrooms, from the MUR room which is essentially the engineering teams. So, there's a lot of people that are supporting in other rooms other than the front, the front flight control room. >> Yeah. >> I'm talking to on the same voice loops. >> So, I was, I just started training for doing commentary for space walks, and so I did my first solo run for, I think it was, I forget the number. EVA 41, I think. It was the one where Peggy Whitson and Shane Kimbrough were out. And, it was the same one where they, their shield was inadvertently lost. [inaudible] >> Yeah. Very exciting. >> And, exactly. Very exciting. And, all of a sudden, all these Flight Controllers and engineers had to come together. You know, they came into a room, and they said, "Okay. What are we going to do? Because we don't have a shield anymore. We can't get it," and they figured out that it was, it wasn't going to hit them again or anything. So, everything was fine, but they didn't have that piece anymore. They needed to figure out what to do. So, they figured out that they can actually take one of the shields that they just removed from another piece and use that as the shield. And, they figured out exactly where to tie everything. Just absolutely crazy, and you got to do that lightning fast. Come up with a decision and procedures and implement it super fast. So, I'm guessing these are the things that they're training for. >> Yeah. So, that was their little mini Apollo 13 moment, right? Everyone's been comparing it to that. >> Right. Yeah. >> That's essentially what flight control is. It's. >> Yeah. >> You do a lot of training to understand your system in a really in-depth way so that when something breaks, understanding how it works isn't something you really need to do. We already know that. So, it's just a matter of what resources do we have available, and what do we need this thing to do. And, to come up with a solution. There's always a solution. >> It's absolutely incredible. So, I mean, you know, Flight Controllers, engineers, all working together, but for you in your case, your Flight Director. You made a, you're the top dog. You're making those decisions. So, what did you study, and what was kind of your path to get to that position? >> So, it's kind of all about leadership once you get to the Flight Director position, but it's also about understanding the capability of your team and understanding the teamwork. So, it's just, it takes an incredible amount of teamwork and trust to be able to be a Flight Director and help, you know, make those final decisions. But, it's kind of all about the team surrounding me. But, I would say my background, I started out in flight control, so I definitely had a good feel of how flight control teams work based on my experience. And then, I spent some years in management. So, managing people, flight control groups, and. >> All at NASA? >> Just getting a little more organizationally intelligent. >> Okay. All at NASA. And then, what was, you said mostly engineers. Are you an engineer, too? Do you have a degree? >> I have a mechanical engineering degree. >> In mechanical engineering. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So, then you trained, you had some years in management and then came on as a Flight Director. So, what kinds of training did you have to go through in order to get to that point, to, you know, learn what it takes to be a Flight Director? >> So, before I became a Flight Director, most of my knowledge was pretty narrow, I would say in one specific field. So, I spent most of my time in International Space Station operations in the computer system or communication side of the house with a little bit more mixed in. When I became a Flight Director, it's all about kind of opening up the world around you and learning a little bit of everything because you really have to be able to understand what anyone is talking to you about so they can make a decision about it. So, similar to, I'd say, the astronaut's training flow. We take kind of a high-level classes and courses and meet with a lot of instructors from all over the organization to learn a little bit about what everybody is doing. >> Yeah, to know, you know, if you have a problem as a Flight Director, okay, you know, let's get some information over here. You know, there's certain kind of decision making processes. >> Right. >> You have to. >> You have to know how everything fits together. >> Yeah. And, I, you know, leadership is definitely, I got to say one of the top qualities. Well, you probably know more than me, but I would say leadership is definitely the top quality of a, to be a Flight Director. But, what are the sort of kind of personal, like, personal qualities do you have to have? Do you have to be type a? I imagine, like, a type a, you know, decisive kind of. Is there a listening component. You know, I like some balance, you know, what is it kind of [inaudible]? >> It's really all of those things. >> Okay. Okay. >> I'd say there's definitely some type a's around the building. But, you don't have to be. There's a lot of. >> Yeah. >> I work with a lot of different personality types that are really great Flight Controllers, and. >> Sure. >> Kind of the baseline skill to be able to support mission operations or Flight Controller operations is being able to communicate, being able to work as a team. So, you're able to do well listening but also responding and thinking quickly. You're a good decision maker. You're a good, hard worker. >> Yeah. >> And, you're able to communicate. That's probably, I'd say, one of the biggest. Assuming that you're confidence in your field. Obviously, you need to study hard to understand your system. But. >> For sure. >> To be able to communicate and understand how everything fits together and integrate with the team. [inaudible]. >> So, I'm imagining like a sort of quarterback kind of philosophy of that style of leadership and communication and that sort of thing. Along the same lines, if you're the quarterback, are you, are you working? When you say team, are you working with the same team members all the, do you have, like, some core personnel that you always know and have a strong relationship with that makes it successful. Or is it, does it rotate, so everyone understands the different types of personalities with different Flight Directors and teams. >> That's a good question. >> Yeah. >> In some cases, we are working with a very specific team that was assigned to do a specific thing. >> Oh, okay. >> Like, a visiting vehicle flight is a really good example. So, I'm going to be leading the SpaceX 12 mission that's coming up in later this year, and I have specific Flight Controllers that are assigned to work that mission. So, we will do flight specific simulations in prep for that mission. We also have a bunch of meetings and work through all the products that are needed in prep for that mission. So, I'm working with a specific team in that case. >> Okay. >> But, a lot of days, just increment operation day, normal day in the life of station. I'm working with whoever is assigned to also work that day. >> I see. >> So, and I never know who that's going to be, but I kind of like that because every day is a little bit different. >> Yeah. >> And, you have to be pretty adaptable in who you can work with because you're working with all different personalities on any given day. >> Okay. So, for SpaceX, when you say, for that example, you say, you know, you're going to be working with a core team for that mission. Is it just the grapple operations and release operations, or is there more to that? Is it, like, is it? >> It's mostly that. >> Mostly that, okay. >> So, it's mostly planning up through capture and birthing operations. We're also the flight specific team that will be on for the release of that vehicle. >> Okay. >> But, the Flight Director will also help integrate some of the operations that occur during that birth timeframe. So, if there's payloads that are brought up. For example, in the trunk of dragon, I will help integrate some of the robotics operations to help take that payload out and deploy it on station wherever it goes. >> Okay. >> For example, [inaudible]. >> Is there something on SpaceX 12 in the trunk, or no? >> There is. It's called the cream payload. >> Cream. Cool. >> Yes. >> Nice. >> It is cool. >> What does it do? >> It's analyzing cosmic rays. >> Awesome. >> Which sounds pretty awesome. I wish I was a smart scientist to be able to design that. So, I don't know much to, know too much about cosmic rays, but. >> But, you do know to grab it with the robotic arm. >> I imagine that science is pretty intense. >> While a space station's flying at 17,000 miles an hour and attach it somewhere else. >> That's the easy part. That's the easy part. >> You say easy, but it sounds super hard and cool and complicated. All of the above. That's amazing. You guys just know, so you have to know so much to be, to kind of be successful. But, you know, going back to, like, the day to day stuff. So, for you, you know, you say you can do a shift, you know, anywhere. You can be on for a week and then have a week off and then be on for another, but there's three shifts. So, how do you, how do you kind of fit that into your schedule. That one week, you're going to be working a normal, you know, maybe a normal nine to five, but then the next week, you're going to be working the midnight shift or the, or the orbit three shift where you're there while the crew is sleeping. >> Right. >> Sort of, that's, is it three to midnight? >> Three to midnight. >> Three to midnight? >> Yes. >> So, what's, so how do you fit that into your schedule? >> So, you get kind of used to what we call sleep shifting. >> Sleep shifting. >> Similar to anyone that does shift work. So, a lot of medical field, for example, manufacturing. >> Yeah. >> Similar to that. [ Inaudible Comment ] So, we'll work, you know, in the office when we're not on console, normal daytime hours. And then, as we're preparing to work night shifts, we'll take a day or two to shift our sleep pattern over to working the night shift. >> So, do you go to bed, like, a little bit earlier, then, like incrementally, or does it? >> Everyone does it a little bit different. >> Different. >> Some people slam into it. They kind of nap before they go in, and. >> Okay. >> And, stay up that first shift and then sleep immediately after. That's kind of how I do it. >> Okay. >> But, some people will kind of gradually shift their sleep a couple days before they'll stay up and. >> Have you gotten used to it, or do you still find yourself sort of, you know, oh, I'm going to have to stay up and get, I'm going to be tired for this first time or? >> It's a good mix of both, I would say. >> Okay. >> I've gotten pretty used to it. >> Yeah. >> And, pretty good at what works well for me. >> Okay. >> And, I would say that's probably the case for most people. We also have a team of medical professionals that can help with. >> Hey. >> Recommending sleep patterns if you need it. >> Nice. >> That will work for you specifically. Yeah. >> Is there essential stuff that you always have to bring with you? So, you know, is coffee just an absolute must, or? >> It is for me, yeah. For sure. Especially, you've seen the YouTube video, right? >> Yeah. Have a coffee with you the whole time. I would be the same way, too. I drink a ridiculous amount of coffee. But, you know. >> Yeah. >> I'm guessing you have, you can bring food in. Because you're there, right, the whole time. So, you have to bring food. You have to be prepared for the whole rest of the day. So. >> Everything we need to execute is, obviously, on console, so all of our procedure books and everything that we need from a technical perspective is there. So, we don't need to bring any of that stuff, but. >> Okay. >> Coffee is essential. There's coffee, a very stellar coffee bar, that we have available to us. But, our breaks are pretty minimal, so whenever we're not in communication with the satellite is kind of when we take our potty and our food breaks. >> I see. >> So, most people pack a lunch and run to the microwave in the few minutes that we have. >> Okay. >> Loss of signal with the vehicle. >> Okay. Yeah. There's a handover. We talked about this with Bill Foster, and I'm not sure which episode that's going to be at this point. But, Bill Foster talked about that handover of communication. >> Right. >> And, how that works, you know. When you guys are getting, receiving that data and where the space station is, how that, how all the talking digitally, I guess, works. And. >> That's right. >> I guess those periods can be only a few short minutes, so you got to run and take that break real fast. Otherwise, you got to be in the room ready for any kind of communication. So, I'm sure you appreciate those breaks every once in a while. >> Yes. >> So, let's go back to, you know, how, in the very beginning, you talked about how Mission Control, you know, it looks modern. And, just being in that room, it's super cool. It's very snazzy. Nice desks. Nice computers. But, it wasn't always like that. So, how, kind of how has Mission Control evolved over time? You know, from the classic when you think about the Mission Control with the, you know, two monitors and all the buttons. You know, how has that evolved over time? >> Well, pretty much with, as computers have evolved, right? So, computer technology is kind of what drives the capabilities. >> Sure. >> Within Mission Control, and we try to upgrade and kind of keep current with those capabilities as best we can. So, back in the day, you know, they flew to the moon on a single IBM mainframe computer. These days, we have networks of computers that are driving the workstations that we use. Of course, we have much slimmer and many more monitors to be able to monitor data, and just the communication resources are just so different today than they were then. So. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we try to upgrade and make sure that we're making use of the latest technology to enable us to do what we do as fast as we can. >> Awesome. That's, I mean, and you have all the kinds of very cool technology. You have, you have the monitors, you know. They're, a lot of it is it kind of looks like a desktop computer. So, it's kind of intuitive in the way that it's designed, but you also have the headset, and you can talk to, like you said, the loops. You can go on whoever you want to talk to there. So, it seems kind of, it seems, you know, it seems like it would work. Is there anything you would want to, you know, anything that you think would make it better? Anything that you're kind of looking forward to in the future or something that would be, you know? Do you want the data shooting directly into your eyeballs, or do you not want that? You know. >> It's hard for me to imagine. I don't know. I haven't thought too much about that. But, you know, I'll start with wireless headsets. That would be nice, so we could, you know, roam around a little bit. Right now, we have. >> Yeah. >> A little bit of challenges with wireless headsets now. >> Okay. >> So, we don't have that, but. >> Yeah. >> So, those types of things. >> Okay. >> And. >> Just to make it more comfortable, really? >> Yeah, cool, cool TV screens. There's a ton of technology out there that, you know, doesn't really fit into our price point budget. >> Yeah. >> But, there's some cool stuff. >> We got nice projectors. Now, I'm just waiting for holograms. I think that'll be pretty cool. Just [inaudible]. >> There you go. >> So, what about the, what about the culture? You know, there has been a different, quite a culture change, really, in Mission Control. I think. You know, how's, what was it like before, and what kind of is it like now? What have you learned over the course of time that makes it what it is today? >> So, the interesting thing about flight operations and the flight operations directorate that I work for is a very traditional organization in a way. So, the founding fathers. We talked about Gene Kranz and Chris Kraft. They were kind of the founding fathers of the principles that we're built on, and we still adhere very much to those, those principles. And, really, in that, the actions of even, you know, the lowest level worker all the way up through the top of the management chain could have ultimate consequences. So, it's a very, we understand it's a very serious role that we all play. >> Definitely. >> And that starts getting trained into the Flight Controllers and instructors and everyone we bring in to the organization kind of from day one. So, it's a very serious job, although fun. So, we definitely understand that burden, and we make sure that everyone kind of adheres to that level of scrutiny in their day to day work. >> Makes a lot of sense. A serious culture for a serious job. That's really important. So, has that culture, sort of, translated. Because, like you said, you know, there's networks, right? You're not only with the systems but with Mission Control as a whole. It has expanded across the globe. There's other Mission Controls out there. So, has the culture kind of expanded outwards? Is it all the same? Is everyone, you know, about the international, I guess, collaboration sort of side of the mission operations. >> Yeah, we hope so. >> Okay. >> We hope that influences everyone that we work with. >> Yeah. >> Although, I will say, you know, every country or every flight control team, kind of, around the world has their own kind of culture and personality in a way. So, we're actually learning a lot from them, and hopefully, they're learning a lot from us being that we've been in the business for a really long time. So. >> Yeah. >> We are very tradition in how we approach things from a foundational principle, but we're still learning new things every day. So, we're also trying to improve and be agile and in our operation and improving how we operate as well. So. >> Yeah. A lot has changed, you know. You guys are training all the time, thinking about all these different scenarios that might, that might happen. But then, also evolving, you know, like you said, culture, but also the technology. And just things are expanding, things are growing. So, kind of fitting along with that. So, but, I think that's about all the time we have, so. >> Okay. >> For the listeners, if you want to know more or you have a suggestion of what we could talk about on this show, or if maybe you have a question for Mary you want to know more about Mission control. Just stay tuned to after the music here and learn how to submit those ideas. Mary, thank you so much for coming in the podcast today. Mission Control, like I said in the beginning, is I think one of the coolest parts of NASA, especially JSC, but honestly, just that, it's amazing. It really is cool what you guys do and the things that. I think it's because of the operational aspect of Mission Control that we were able to land on the moon, and I think that's really cool. And, I think it's just amazing that you're a part of it. So, I'm very happy you were able to make some time out of your busy schedule. So. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> It was my pleasure. >> Absolutely. [ Music ] >> Houston, go ahead. >> Space shuttle. >> Roger [inaudible]. >> Shuttle has cleared the. >> [inaudible] for all mankind. >> Huge honor to break a record. >> Not because they are easy but because they are hard. >> Houston, welcome to space [echo]. >> Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, Mrs. Mary Lawrence is a Flight Director in Mission Control Houston, and mostly, she works missions related to the International Space Station. If you want to know more about what goes on in some of those missions that she is controlling and some of those, what was it? High tempo missions, you know? You can go on nasa.gov/iss to learn the latest of all the high tempo activities going on in the International Space Station. On social media, we're very active. On Facebook, it's the International Space Station. On twitter, it's @space_station, and on Instagram, it's @iss. Think we're verified on all those different platforms, so just go to any one of us, follow us along on our journey. And, we'll show you all the cool stuff going on up there. But, you know, Mission Control, we're studying a lot more things and training for a lot more activities including, and we alluded to, Orion. Go to nasa.gov/orion. Learn everything about that, and you know, we have verified accounts across all social media as well as commercial crew, nasa.gov/commercialcrew. Those are the missions where some of our astronauts are going to be flying on vehicles that have been designed and created by commercial companies in conjunction with NASA including SpaceX and Boeing, and we have some folks that are going to be flying on that coming up here soon. So, go to that website and stick along for that journey, and I think we have some social media sites associated with there, too. So, I think they're all verified. Pretty sure. Just look for the little checkmark. So, just use #asknasa on any one of those platforms to submit an idea for the show. Make sure you mention it's for Houston, We Have a Podcast, and maybe we'll address your question in the future on one of the future episodes. We have a pretty big bank now of a couple episodes that we've been recording over the past couple months, so we may be a while until we get to your question, but I promise, we will. So, this podcast was recorded on June 19th. Thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stoll, and Brandy Dean for helping set this up. And, of course, thanks to Mrs. Mary Lawrence for coming on the show. We'll be back next week. See you then.

Strong Artificial Intelligence and National Security: Operational and Strategic Implications

DTIC Science & Technology

2015-05-18

including Tesla/Space X founder Elon Musk and theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking, released an open letter warning of the existential risk presented by...the MIT Aeronautics and Astronautics Department’s 2014 Centennial Symposium, Elon Musk , a member of FLI, said that creating such a capable...pentagram and the holy water, it’s like yeah he’s sure he can control the demon. Didn’t work out.” Elon Musk , interview by Jaime Peraire, 2014

hwhap_Ep13_First Flight

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-10-06

>> HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST. WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL PODCAST OF THE NASA JOHNSON SPACE CENTER, EPISODE 13: “BEFORE HIS FIRST FLIGHT.” I’M GARY JORDAN AND I’LL BE YOUR HOST TODAY. SO THIS IS THE PODCAST WHERE WE BRING IN THE EXPERTS, LIKE NASA SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS, SOMETIMES EVEN ASTRONAUTS, AND THEY ALL TELL YOU THE COOLEST THINGS GOING ON HERE AT NASA. SO TODAY, WE’RE TALKING WITH MARK VANDE HEI. HE’S A U.S. ASTRONAUT HERE AT THE JOHNSON SPACE CENTER IN HOUSTON, TEXAS, AND HE JUST LAUNCHED TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION ON SEPTEMBER 12th, 2017 TO GO TO SPACE FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME. WE HAD A GREAT DISCUSSION ABOUT HIS EXPECTATIONS FOR FLYING TO SPACE AND SOME OF THE WORK AND HIS TRAINING THAT HE HAD TO GO THROUGH TO GET READY FOR HIS VOYAGE TO THE STATION. SO WITH NO FURTHER DELAY, LET’S GO LIGHTSPEED AND JUMP RIGHT AHEAD TO OUR TALK WITH MR. MARK VANDE HEI. ENJOY. [ MUSIC ] >> T MINUS FIVE SECONDS AND COUNTING. MARK. [ INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER ] >> HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST. [ MUSIC ] >> ALL RIGHT, WELL, THANKS FOR COMING TODAY, MARK. I KNOW YOU’RE VERY BUSY, ESPECIALLY COMING SO CLOSE TO YOUR LAUNCH DATE. SO THAT’S SEPTEMBER AGAIN, RIGHT? >> IT IS SEPTEMBER 13th. >> IT IS SEPTEMBER, OKAY. SO THAT’S WITH-- NOW, IT’S KIND OF CHANGED UP A BIT, RIGHT? SO NOW WE’RE TALKING-- YOU’RE LAUNCHING WITH ALEXANDER AND JOE, RIGHT? >> THAT’S CORRECT. >> ALEXANDER MISURKIN AND JOE ACABA. SO, I MEAN, THIS IS YOUR VERY FIRST FLIGHT COMING UP SOON, SO YOU’VE BEEN BUSY TRAINING FOR YEARS. I MEAN, YOU WERE SELECTED IN 2009, IF I’M NOT MISTAKEN, RIGHT? >> THAT’S CORRECT. >> THERE’S A LOT OF TRAINING TO BE HAD SO, I MEAN, LET’S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS. LIKE, WHAT WERE YOUR-- WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS AND WHAT ARE YOU PREPARING FOR REALLY? I MEAN, WHAT DOES AN ASTRONAUT NEED TO KNOW BEFORE THEY LAUNCH? >> SO, THE PRIMARY THING WE NEED TO KNOW IS HOW TO-- I WOULD SAY THE PRIMARY THING WE NEED TO KNOW IS HOW TO FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS. >> ALL RIGHT. >> BECAUSE WE REALLY ARE SERVING AS THE EYES AND HANDS OF A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT AREN’T THERE WITH US BUT ARE ABLE TO SUPPORT US. >> MM-HMM. >> SO THAT’S THE PRIMARY THING. YOU ALSO NEED TO KNOW HOW TO WORK WELL WITH THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT YOU’RE LIVING WITH. >> THAT’S RIGHT. >> AND MAKE SURE YOU TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING’S FULLY FUNCTIONAL, AND THEN AFTER THAT I WOULD SAY WE HAVE TO HAVE ALL THE TECHNICAL SKILLS TO DO OUR JOB THAT ARE OPERATE THE SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS AND BE ABLE TO KEEP THE SPACE STATION ACTUALLY RUNNING. >> NICE. NOW, I MEAN, SO WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ON A PREVIOUS EPISODE WITH RANDY BRESNIK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO LEARN, BUT JUST LIKE AN OVERVIEW OF SOME OF THE THINGS, LIKE, IN TERMS OF KNOWING WHAT TO DO ON THE STATION. >> MM-HMM. >> YOU’RE TALKING ALL THE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, RIGHT? SO, KOMRADE DESCRIBED MORE FIXING THE TOILET. >> YEAH, YEAH. >> AND YOU KNOW, LEARNING HOW TO DO AN EVA AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. >> YEAH. >> SO IS THAT KIND OF WHAT YOU’VE BEEN DOING OVER THE PAST-- >> ABSOLUTELY. I’VE GOT-- KOMRADE’S GOING TO BE THE COMMANDER SO THERE’S SOME-- CERTAINLY SOME ADDITIONAL THINGS HE’S GOT TO LEARN. >> OKAY. >> BUT, BY AND LARGE, THE CREW MEMBERS ON THE SPACE STATION, WHEN THERE’S NOT AN EMERGENCY TAKING PLACE, WE’RE ALL KIND OF EQUAL. >> MM-HMM. >> CERTAINLY THE COMMANDER, WHEN AN EMERGENCY IS HAPPENING, HE’S-- THAT’S THE PERSON THAT’S MAKING THOSE TOUGH CALLS AND PULLING THE TEAM TOGETHER. >> MM-HMM. >> AND HE WILL ALSO COORDINATE ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM. BUT, CREW MEMBERS ON THE STATION ARE GENERALISTS. WE HAVE TO HAVE A SKILL SET THAT WILL ALLOW US TO DO WHATEVER THE GROUND NEEDS US TO DO AND THAT DOES INVOLVE EVA TRAINING, OF COURSE. >> MM-HMM. >> THAT INVOLVES ROBOTICS TRAINING. THAT INVOLVES MEDICAL TRAINING, TOO, JUST IN CASE SOMETHING COMES UP, WE’LL HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER. THAT’S BEEN PRETTY INTERESTING. >> YEAH. >> DID KOMRADE TALK AT ALL ABOUT THAT? >> ABOUT THE-- WHICH PART? >> THE MEDICAL TRAINING? >> YEAH, OH, YEAH. I MEAN, JUST A TINY LITTLE BIT. WE ACTUALLY ONLY HAD ABOUT 25 MINUTES TO TALK, SO HE TALKED-- I MEAN, MOSTLY A LITTLE BIT. HE SAID, I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO-- YOU HAVE TO KNOW KIND OF THE BASICS OF MEDICAL TRAINING IN CASE THERE’S AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, BUT HE ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE-- YOU CAN CALL DOWN TO DOCTORS AND THEY CAN WALK YOU THROUGH SOME OF THOSE THINGS. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND I GUESS THAT KIND OF HELPS, RIGHT? BECAUSE ESPECIALLY NOT BEING A DOCTOR AND YOU GUYS-- ONE THING I SAID LAST TIME WAS YOU HAVE TO BE A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND A MASTER OF ALL IN SORT OF A-- IN A WAY, I GUESS. YOU HAVE TO REALLY KNOW THE SYSTEMS. >> IN A WAY, BUT THE GROUND IS ALWAYS THERE TO HELP OUT. >> THAT’S TRUE. >> FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAD AN EVENT THAT INVOLVED US SIMULATING THAT ONE OF THE CREW MEMBERS NEEDED CPR. >> MM-HMM. >> AND IT HAD BEEN SIX MONTHS AT LEAST, MAYBE EVEN A YEAR, SINCE MY PREVIOUS TRAINING ON THAT AND THE INSTRUCTORS DID A GOOD JOB OF SAYING, “OKAY, GO FOR IT.” SO, I KNEW I SHOULD DO CHEST COMPRESSIONS. I KNEW I SHOULD GIVE-- DO BREATHS PERIODICALLY. >> RIGHT, RIGHT. >> BUT, I WASN’T 100% CERTAIN OF WHAT NUMBER OF BREATHS, WHAT NUMBER OF REPETITIONS. >> RIGHT. >> SO I JUST STARTED, AND THEN THEY REMINDED AS PART OF THE TRAINING THAT, “HEY, LOOK, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT UNCERTAINTY-- YOU DID A GOOD JOB OF GETTING STARTING, BUT THE GROUND’S THERE TO HELP ANSWER THAT QUESTION. YOU COULD’VE GOT-- SAID, “HEY, WE NEED THIS CONFERENCE RIGHT NOW AND LET’S GET A DOCTOR TALKING TO US AND MAKE SURE WE’RE DOING THE RIGHT THINGS.”” >> MM-HMM. >> SO BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO KNOW SO MUCH SOMETIMES THE DETAILS-- THE GROUND CAN REALLY HELP YOU OUT WITH THAT. >> YEAH, AND THEY’RE THERE 24/7, RIGHT? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> SO YOU CAN CALL DOWN AND SAY, “HEY, SOMETHING’S GOING ON. I NEED HELP.” >> YES. YES. >> AND YOU GUYS WALK THROUGH ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT THINGS. SO, I MEAN, ON TOP OF JUST TRAINING FOR SOME OF THE THINGS ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION THAT YOU’RE GOING TO BE DOING, ESPECIALLY EMERGENCY SITUATIONS, YOU GO THROUGH OTHER TYPES OF TRAINING TOO, RIGHT? DON’T YOU DO SURVIVAL TRAINING AND THINGS LIKE THAT? >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. WE HAVE THE-- FIRST OF ALL, THERE’S LAND SURVIVAL TRAINING-- ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU DO AS ASTRONAUT CANDIDATES. >> MM-HMM. >> I BELIEVE THE NEXT CLASS IS GOING TO DO THAT AT FORT RUCKER, IT’S AN ARMY BASE. >> OKAY. >> THEN, THERE’S LAND SURVIVAL TRAIN-- NO, I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT. THERE’S LAND SURVIVAL TRAINING THAT WE DO AS ASTRONAUT CANDIDATES. >> RIGHT. >> AND THEN, THE NEXT SURVIVAL TRAINING YOU DO IS ACTUALLY AFTER YOU’RE ASSIGNED TO A SOYUZ CREW. THERE’S WINTER SURVIVAL TRAINING IN CASE YOUR SOYUZ LANDS SOME PLACE WHERE THE SEARCH AND RESCUE FORCES CAN’T GET TO YOU AS QUICKLY AS YOU’D LIKE. >> OH. >> AND YOU MAY HAVE TO BE SOME PLACE IN THE WINTER IN RUSSIA AND HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE FOR A COUPLE DAYS. >> OH, WOW. >> WORST CASE. >> RIGHT, RIGHT. >> SO WE DO THAT TRAINING. THAT’S ALSO A VERY GOOD TIME FOR THE CREW TO BOND WITH EACH OTHER, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. >> YEAH. >> THERE’S ALSO NOMINALLY, THE SOYUZ LANDS ON LAND. >> RIGHT. >> BUT, WE ALSO HAVE WATER SURVIVAL TRAINING. >> OKAY, JUST IN CASE IT DOES LAND ON WATER. >> JUST IN CASE. WELL, IF THERE’S A REALLY URGENT NEED TO DESCEND. >> RIGHT. >> AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT WHERE ON THE EARTH WE HIT. >> RIGHT. >> POSSIBLY, IF IT’S THAT-- NORMALLY, WE’RE VERY-- >> A LOT OF BAD THINGS HAVE TO HAPPEN IN A ROW TO GET TO THAT POINT. >> YES. WE REALLY WANT TO LAND IN SPECIFIC PLACES, BUT JUST IN CASE, THERE’S THE OPTION. MUCH OF THE EARTH IS COVERED WITH WATER, SO WE LEARNED HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT SITUATION AS WELL. >> RIGHT. SO, YOU DID DO THE WINTER SURVIVAL TRAINING, RIGHT? YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT. WHAT ARE-- DO YOU HAVE ANY GOOD STORIES OF-- YOU SAID IT WAS A GOOD TIME TO BOND WITH YOUR CREWMATES, SO ARE THERE ANY GOOD STORIES THERE? >> SURE. SO, THE TRAINING CONSISTS OF STAYING UP. FOR US, WE STAYED UP FOR TWO NIGHTS. >> MM-HMM. >> THE FIRST NIGHT YOU EGRESS THE SOYUZ CAPSULE THAT THEY PUT OUT IN THE FOREST. WE’VE GOT A REALLY GOOD SET OF COLD WEATHER GEAR THAT WE PUT ON. >> MM-HMM. >> AND SO, WE PUT ALL THAT STUFF ON, AND THEN WE USE THE SEAT LINERS, THAT ARE MOLDED TO US, THAT ARE IN THE-- I WOULD CALL IT KIND OF LIKE A BUCKET INSIDE THE SOYUZ. >> OH. >> WE CAN TAKE THOSE OUT AND USE THOSE AS SLEDS. SO WE PUT A BUNCH OF GEAR ON THAT. >> OH, I SEE. >> AND YOU GOT TO DRAG THOSE THROUGH TO A PLACE TO FIND A PLACE TO SET UP CAMP. >> COOL. >> OF COURSE, THE PARACHUTE THAT THE SOYUZ LANDS WITH IS HUGE, SO THAT’S A MASSIVE RESOURCE OF CLOTH. >> MM-HMM. >> SO THE FIRST NIGHT, WHAT WE DID IS HAD TO SET UP A LEAN-TO AND USED BOTH TIMBER THAT WE FOUND IN THE AREA, AND STRINGS FROM THE PARACHUTE, AND THE ACTUAL CLOTH FROM THE PARACHUTE, AS WELL AS A LOTO OF BRANCHES TO SET UP A SHELTER. BUT, THAT WAS REALLY-- THAT NIGHT WAS ALL ABOUT THE FIRE. >> OH. >> BECAUSE THE LEAN-TO JUST KEPT US FROM LOSING ALL THE HEAT, BUT WE WERE KIND OF SLEEPING-- THERE WAS TWO PEOPLE KIND OF SLEEPING ON TOP OF EACH OTHER JUST ABOUT-- >> SORRY, A LEAN-TO IS LIKE-- IS THAT A SHELTER THAT, I’M ASSUMING, LEANS UP AGAINST SOMETHING? IS THAT WHAT THAT IS? >> A LEAN-TO-- IMAGINE IF YOU HAD A PLANE THAT WAS-- LIKE, A HALF OF A ROOF. >> OKAY. >> AND ALL IT IS IS ONE WALL THAT GOES FROM MAYBE ABOUT WAIST HIGH DOWN TO THE GROUND, WITH ENOUGH SPACE UNDERNEATH IT SO THAT TWO PEOPLE COULD BE SLEEPING UNDERNEATH IT WITH THE LENGTH OF THEIR BODIES FACING OUT TO THE OPEN. >> I SEE, OKAY. >> AND WHAT WE DO WITH THAT IS WE LIGHT A FIRE ON THE OPEN SIDE SO THAT THEY GET A LOT OF WARMTH, AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE THAT BACKDROP HELPS REFLECT SOME OF THAT HEAT DOWN TOWARDS YOU. >> NICE. BUT, IT DOESN’T TRAP ANY OF THE SMOKE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? >> IDEALLY, NO. >> YEAH. >> NO. BUT, THAT’S WHY I SAID, IT’S ALL ABOUT THE FIRE. >> RIGHT. >> IF THE FIRE GOES OUT, THAT LEAN-TO IS REALLY WORTHLESS. >> RIGHT. >> SO, ONE PERSON’S AWAKE AND CONSTANTLY CUTTING WOOD, BECAUSE TO KEEP THE FIRE GOING IT’S AMAZING HOW MUCH WOOD YOU NEED IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. >> WOW. >> WE DID THAT. MY TWO RUSSIANS THAT I-- INITIALLY I WAS GOING TO LAUNCH WITH TWO RUSSIANS, SO I DID THAT WITH TWO RUSSIANS. >> I SEE. >> THEY HAD BOTH DONE THIS BEFORE. THEY WERE REALLY, REALLY GOOD WITH THE MATERIAL WE HAD. >> NICE. >> AND WERE SMART ENOUGH THAT THEY KNEW THAT THE NEXT DAY WE’D HAVE TO SET UP A TEEPEE. SO, OUR LEAN-TO KIND OF HAD A FEW PIECES THAT WE COULD USE FOR THE TEEPEE READY TO GO, SO WE JUST HAD TO CHANGE THE LEAN-TO AND WE KIND OF TURNED IT INTO A TEEPEE ON THE NEXT DAY. >> OH. >> SO, THE TEEPEE WAS GREAT. WE-- IT’S MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE. IT HAD A MUCH SMALLER FIRE INSIDE THE TEEPEE. >> OH, OKAY. >> SO, YOU HAD TO MAKE THE TEEPEE ON THE SECOND DAY BECAUSE IT’S-- I GUESS, IT’S MORE INTENSIVE TO BUILD? IS THAT WHY? >> IT TAKES LONGER TO BUILD. >> I SEE. >> BUT, IT’S ALSO MUCH BETTER SHELTER. >> OKAY. >> SO, IT’S THE TYPE OF THING THAT-- QUITE HONESTLY, I THINK ALL OF US WOULD’VE PREFERRED TO GO RIGHT TO THE TEEPEE, BECAUSE-- I MEAN, I’M NOT 100% CERTAIN IT REALLY IS-- TAKES LONGER TO BUILD, BUT THE RUSSIANS WANTED US TO HAVE THE EXPERIENCE BUILDING BOTH TYPES. >> I SEE. >> AND TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TOOK TO LIVE IN BOTH OF THEM. >> OKAY, OKAY. >> YOU NEED A LOT LESS LUMBER TO KEEP THE TEEPEE WARM, BUT AGAIN, WE WERE BOTH-- WE WERE EXPERIENCING BOTH SITUATIONS. >> MM-HMM. WOW. AND THEN, I GUESS, YOU HAVE SURVIVAL TRAINING. WHAT OTHER KINDS OF THINGS DO YOU GO THROUGH? >> WELL, ONE OF THE BIG DEALS FOR ASTRONAUTS THAT WORK AT NASA IS WE COME FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS-- >> OKAY. >> --FROM MICROBIOLOGIST TO NAVY SEALS. SO, WE’VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A CULTURE WHERE ALL THOSE PEOPLE CAN COME TOGETHER AND OPERATE IN A-- OPERATE HIGHLY TECHNICAL MACHINES IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE IF YOU MESS IT UP YOU COULD DIE. >> RIGHT. >> SO, ANOTHER THING THAT’S REALLY VERY, VERY INTERESTING IS WE USE T-38s. IT’S A-- IT’S THE SAME TYPE OF AIRCRAFT THAT THE AIR FORCE USES TO TRAIN PILOTS. >> OKAY. >> SO WE USED THOSE. >> MM-HMM. >> THE NICE THING ABOUT IS, MUCH LIKE-- WE CAN’T FLY PEOPLE IN SPACE VERY OFTEN, BUT WE CAN PUT PEOPLE IN THESE JETS VERY OFTEN AND IT-- YOU HAVE TO-- THE JET MOVES REALLY, REALLY FAST, SO YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO THINK FAST. YOU’VE ALSO GOT TO COORDINATE WITH THE GROUND AND THEY WILL DIRECT YOU WHAT TO DO, AND AT TIMES YOU HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT REQUIRE YOU TO SAY, “HEY, I GET WHAT YOU JUST SAID, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO DO THIS BECAUSE WE’RE IN A TOUGH SITUATION,” FOR EXAMPLE. >> OKAY. >> AND YOU HAVE TO COORDINATE WITH THE OTHER CREW MEMBER BECAUSE IT’S A TWO COCKPIT AIRCRAFT. THERE’S A PILOT AND TYPICALLY WE CALL HIM A BACK SEATER. YOU WORK AS THE NAVIGATOR AND COMMUNICATOR IN A NOMINAL SITUATION. >> AND WAS THAT YOUR JOB? >> WELL, BECAUSE I’M NOT A MILITARY PILOT, YES. >> OKAY. >> SO ALL OF THE FRONT SEATERS ARE MILITARY PILOTS IF THEY’RE ASTRONAUTS, AND THEY ARE INSTRUCTOR PILOTS, TYPICALLY FROM THE MILITARY AS WELL IF THEY’RE NOT ASTRONAUTS. IT’S A GREAT DEAL TO HAVE TO GO FLY AROUND IN A JET AS PART OF YOUR JOB. >> RIGHT. DID YOU END UP FLYING A FELLOW ASTRONAUT? OR DID YOU FLY WITH ONE OF THE PILOTS THAT THEY HAD, I GUESS? >> INITIALLY, YOU FLY WITH INSTRUCTORS. >> OKAY. >> BUT, BY AND LARGE, ALMOST EVERY FLIGHT IS WITH THE-- ANOTHER ASTRONAUT PILOT. >> I SEE. DID ANY OF THEM MESS WITH YOU AT ANY TIME OR TRY TO MAKE YOU THROW UP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? >> NO. SO, ONE TIME THOUGH-- SO ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ALWAYS TELL-- BECAUSE THEY’RE VERY EXPERIENCED AND WE’RE NOT, IT’S REAL EASY TO JUST ASSUME THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO DO EVERYTHING. THEY CAN FLY THAT JET COMPLETELY BY THEMSELVES. >> AWESOME. >> SO IT CAN BE A LITTLE INTIMIDATING WHEN YOU GET IN THE BACK SEAT. YOU KNOW THE FRONT SEATER CAN DO EVERYTHING BY THEMSELVES. >> MM-HMM. >> BUT, THEY REALLY WANT YOU TO BE ENGAGED AND RECOGNIZE THAT IF THEY DO SOMETHING STUPID THAT WOULD KILL THEM IT’S GOING TO KILL BOTH OF US. >> RIGHT. >> YOU’RE A NANO SECOND BEHIND THEM. AND WE TRAIN AND THE ASTRONAUT PILOTS ALLOW US TO DO EVERYTHING. THEY’LL ALLOW US TO FLY THE JET, DO THE COMMUNICATIONS, DO THE NAVIGATION, JUST TO GET GOOD AT THAT, BECAUSE THERE’S A-- FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMETHING HAPPENED TO THE PILOT, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO THAT. >> RIGHT. >> AND IT’S MORE FUN FOR US. AND ACTUALLY, A LOT OF THE ASTRONAUT PILOTS HAVE EXPERIENCED WITH BEING AN INSTRUCTOR PILOTS, SO THEY’RE GOOD AT THAT. >> MM-HMM. >> WELL, ONE TIME, BARRY WILMORE WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE I WAS PAYING ATTENTION, AND I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE CLIMBING TO A SPECIFIC ALTITUDE, AND JUST MAYBE ABOUT 500 FEET BEFORE I NEEDED TO START LEVELING OFF, HE SAID, “SO, WHERE DO YOU GO TO CHURCH?” AND I STOPPED PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE JET AND THEN I STARTED TALKING TO HIM. AND THEN HE DID THAT ON PURPOSE SO THAT HE-- SO THEN I RECOGNIZED I NEED TO PRIORITIZE WHAT I WAS DOING TO THE JET MORE, AND SO THEN HE WAITED UNTIL I WAS REALLY FLYING STRAIGHT THROUGH THE ALTITUDE I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LEVELING OFF AT AND SAID, “CHECK YOUR ALTITUDE.” AND THEN I DID. ANOTHER TIME, WE’RE NOT-- AS A BACK SEATER, I’M NOT ALLOWED TO FLY WITHIN 200 FEET OF THE GROUND, BUT YOU CAN FLY TOWARDS AN AIRPORT, GET TO 200 FEET, AND THEN ACT LIKE THERE’S A PROBLEM ON THE RUNWAY, AND THEN BASICALLY ADD POWER TO THE JET AND GO THROUGH THE TAKE OFF PROCESS. >> I SEE. >> WELL, EARLIER ON IN MY TRAINING, I WAS FLYING WITH ANOTHER GUY AND HE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF LETTING ME MESS UP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BEFORE HE’D CORRECT ME SO THAT I WOULD LEARN. SAME TYPE OF THING, I GAVE IT A LOT OF POWER, I STARTED CLIMBING. >> MM-HMM. >> I DIDN’T-- I WASN’T EXPERIENCED ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE THAT RIGHT AFTER I STARTED CLIMBING I NEEDED TO REDUCE THE POWER. >> OH. >> SO, I WAS REALLY, REALLY SPEEDING UP AND I ONLY HAD TO CLIMB UP TO 3,000 FEET, WHICH YOU DO REALLY FAST IN THAT JET IF YOU HAVEN’T TAKEN THE POWER OUT. >> WHOA. >> AND SO, SAME THING, I GOT TO 3,000 FEET, I WAS CLIMBING REALLY, REALLY FAST, HE SAID, “CHECK YOUR ALTITUDE.” AND MY IMMEDIATE RESPONSE WASN’T TO TAKE OUT THE POWER, IT WAS JUST TO PITCH THE NOSE FORWARD, WHICH MEANT THAT ANYTHING THAT I HAD LOOSE IN THE JET JUST HIT THE CEILING BECAUSE I JUST WENT DOWN SO FAST ALL THE SUDDEN. >> WHOA. >> REALLY GOOD TRAINING. >> YEAH. >> I DIDN’T FORGET THAT LESSON. >> YEAH. THAT’S GOOD THAT YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS KEEPING EACH OTHER IN CHECK. I’M SURE THAT ALL YOUR ASTRONAUT-- YOUR FELLOW ASTRONAUTS ARE CONSTANTLY DOING THIS, RIGHT? THEY’RE GIVING YOU ADVICE AND ANYTHING LIKE THAT. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> NOW, YOU BEING A FIRST TIME FLYER, I’M SURE THEY’VE GIVEN YOU SOME OF THOSE EXPERIENCES, ESPECIALLY SOME OF YOUR CLASSMATES, RIGHT? >> MM-HMM. >> SO WE HAVE REID WISEMAN, AND I’M TRYING TO THINK. >> MIKE HOPKINS. >> MIKE HOPKINS. >> KJELL LINDGREN. >> KJELL-- ALL THESE GUYS HAVE FLOWN BEFORE. >> KATE RUBINS. >> YEAH, THAT’S RIGHT, KATE MOST RECENTLY. SO, HAVE THESE GUYS GIVEN YOU SOME ADVICE, COME TO YOU AND SAY, “HEY, THIS”-- YOU KNOW, ANY KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE WATCHING OUT FOR? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> YEAH. >> AND NOT JUST THEM, ALL OF THEM. >> RIGHT. >> EVERYTHING FROM IF YOU’RE HAVING A BAD DAY DON’T TALK TO IT ON THE-- DON’T TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT IT ON THE RADIO, TO EXPECTATIONS ON HOW TO-- AS YOU’RE GETTING READY FOR THE LAUNCH AND YOUR FAMILY’S IN KAZAKHSTAN, GETTING READY FOR THAT, WHAT TO EXPECT OUT OF THAT. >> ANY GOOD NUGGETS THAT THEY’VE TOLD YOU? >> CHRIS CASSIDY TOLD ME THAT ONE OF THE THINGS TO DO WHEN YOU’RE DOING A PROCEDURE IS TO MAKE SURE-- THERE’S NOTES BLOCKS IN A LOT OF THE PROCEDURES. >> MM-HMM. >> AND HE SAID, “THE NOTES BLOCKS AREN’T REQUIRED FOR US TO READ.” >> HMM. >> BUT, YOU REALLY NEED TO READ THOSE BECAUSE THEY TYPICALLY GIVE YOU THE BIG PICTURE. >> HMM. >> AND SO, WHEN YOU READ THOSE CAREFULLY, THEN AS YOU’RE DOING THE STEPS IT’LL PREVENT YOU FROM DOING THOSE STEPS BLINDLY, WHICH HELPS YOU BE A LITTLE MORE ACCURATE IN HOW YOU’RE DOING THE PROCEDURE. SO IF YOU KNOW WHY YOU’RE DOING THIS PARTICULAR THING THEN IT’S A LOT EASIER TO RECOGNIZE WHEN YOU’RE PRESSING THE WRONG-- ABOUT TO PRESS THE WRONG BUTTON BECAUSE IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE. >> I SEE. >> MAYBE YOU MISREAD THAT STEP LATER ON. >> OKAY, SO LIKE, ALL THE LITTLE DETAILS, I’M SURE. >>THERE’S A-- OH, YEAH. YES, YES. >> SO, I MEAN, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU-- THAT ANY ASTRONAUT HAS GIVEN YOU SO FAR JUST TO ALWAYS KEEP THIS IN MIND. I GUESS, THE NOTES IS ONE OF THEM, BUT ESPECIALLY-- MAYBE SOYUZ ASCENT OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE LEAN BACK. I REMEMBER, WHAT WAS-- I WAS TALKING WITH SHANE KIMBROUGH JUST RECENTLY AND THEY SAID ONCE HE GETS TO A CERTAIN POINT YOU GOT TO MAKE SURE YOU STRAP DOWN, OTHERWISE YOU’RE GOING TO GO FLYING UP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ANY KIND OF PIECES OF ADVICE LIKE THAT? WELL, IT DOESN’T EVEN HAVE TO BE OPERATIONAL. IT COULD BE YOU’RE GOING TO THE BATHROOM AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU TURN THE FAN ON FIRST OR ONE OF THOSE THINGS. >> MM-HMM. >> I’M SURE YOU GO THROUGH ALL OF THOSE THINGS. >> KEEP TRACK OF YOUR STUFF. SO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE’RE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH ON EARTH IS WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING DOWN IT’S DOWN. >> MM-HMM. >> AND WE TEND TO THINK OF LEAVING THINGS ON A TWO DIMENSIONAL SURFACE AND STAYING THERE. >> YEAH. >> BUT, YOU HAVE AN EXTRA DIMENSION IN SPACE AND YOU HAVE TO PUT A LITTLE EXTRA EFFORT INTO REMEMBERING, LIKE, ANOTHER DIMENSION THAT IT COULD BE SOME PLACE ELSE, TOO. >> THAT’S RIGHT. >> THAT CAN BE CHALLENGING FOR PEOPLE, IS JUST REALLY SLOWING YOURSELF DOWN ENOUGH TO LOOK AT WHERE YOU PUT SOMETHING AND VISUALIZE WHAT’S AROUND YOU. BECAUSE YOU COULD COME BACK TO THE SAME PLACE, AND IF YOU WEREN’T VERY DELIBERATE ABOUT LOOKING AT THAT PLACE FROM AN ORIENTATION THAT YOU ALWAYS TAKE, YOU MIGHT COME IN THERE UPSIDE DOWN AND BE LIKE, “WELL, I REMEMBER PUTTING IT SOMEWHERE IN HERE, BUT NOTHING LOOKS-- I CAN’T PICTURE IT IN THIS SPOT.” >> YEAH. >> SO, THINGS LIKE THAT. >> I REMEMBER TALKING TO MIKE HOPKINS A COUPLE-- WELL, PROBABLY MORE THAN A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, BUT HE-- ONE THINGS THAT ALWAYS STUCK WITH ME WAS HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HE WAS WORKING ON THIS RACK, I GUESS, AND HE HAD TO PULL IT BACK AND GET TO-- GET BEHIND IT. AND JUST THE WAY THAT HE WAS DOING IT, HE JUST-- IT WAS HARD TO REACH. AND I DON’T KNOW IF HE’S TOLD YOU THE SAME STORY, BUT IT WAS HARD TO REACH AND HE CALLS TO THE GROUND, TELLS HIM HIS PROBLEM, AND HE’S LIKE-- AND THEY’RE LIKE, “WELL, FLIP UPSIDE DOWN.” AND HE’S LIKE, “OH, YEAH, I CAN DO THAT.” AND SO, I GUESS YOU’RE TRAINING ON THE GROUND, BUT YOU DO HAVE THE LIMITATIONS OF GRAVITY ON THE GROUND EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE ALL THESE MOCK UPS. BUT, FLIPPING UPSIDE DOWN WAS-- IT SOLVED THE PROBLEM IMMEDIATELY. HE GOT A WHOLE NEW VANTAGE POINT, BUT YOU CAN’T PRACTICE FLIPPING UP ON-- IN 1G ON THE AIRPLANE. >> YOU CAN'T. YEAH, DEFINITELY CAN’T. >> OH. SO AN ASTRONAUT CLASS, JUST ACTUALLY RECENTLY GOT SELECTED. DOES THIS BRING BACK ANY KIND OF ANY MEMORIES OF WHEN YOU GOT SELECTED AS AN ASTRONAUT BACK IN 2009? >> YES, DEFINITELY. I’VE SEEN A LOT OF THOSE ASTRONAUT HOPEFULS THAT HAVE BEEN EITHER IN THE GYM. >> YEAH. >> OR GOING TO THEIR INTERVIEWS OR WHATEVER. THAT IS AN EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER. I DON’T ENVY THEM AT ALL. >> BECAUSE YOU WENT THROUGH IT. >> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH. >> YEAH, YEAH. >> IT’S-- I THINK I DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF ASSUMING THERE WAS NO HOPE THAT I WOULD GET THE JOB AND THAT MADE IT A LOT LESS STRESSFUL. IN FACT, THE ONLY TIME THAT I GOT KIND OF LIKE, “WHOA, BE CAREFUL,” WAS WHEN I THOUGHT I HAD JUST DONE SOMETHING REALLY, REALLY SUCCESSFUL AND MAYBE THERE’S A CHANCE I’LL GET THIS JOB. I THOUGHT, “NO, NO, NO. DON’T DO THAT TO YOURSELF.” >> BECAUSE THAT’S WHEN YOU GET-- YOU MAKE YOURSELF ALL NERVOUS, RIGHT, I GUESS? >> THAT’S WHEN YOU-- IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, THEN IT’S NO BIG DEAL. >> RIGHT. >> I JUST WOULD’VE-- IF I DIDN’T GET THE JOB I WOULD’VE HAD-- STILL HAD A REALLY COOL EXPERIENCE GETTING THE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE OF WHAT THE ASTRONAUT SELECTION PROCESS IS LIKE, IF NOTHING ELSE. >> YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT IS IT LIKE, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU SAY IT’S STRESSFUL AND THERE’S THINGS, BUT WHAT ARE THEY DOING THROUGHOUT THIS INTERVIEW PROCESS? >> WELL, I WOULD SAY IT’S-- I’M CERTAIN THAT THE PROCESS THAT THIS CLASS THAT REALLY HASN’T BEEN SELECTED YET, BUT IS IN THE PROCESS OF FINISHING BEING SELECTED. >> UH-HUH, AT THIS TIME THROUGH. >> I’M SURE THEIR-- I KNOW THEIR PROCESS HAS CHANGED SINCE WE WENT THROUGH, BUT THERE’S PSYCHOLOGICAL EXAMINATIONS THAT WE DID. >> OH, WOW. YEAH. >> THERE WAS GROUP PROBLEM SOLVING EXERCISES THAT WE DID. THERE WAS A LOT OF MEDICAL EXAMS, ESPECIALLY BY THE SECOND INTERVIEW. A LOT OF THAT IS CHECKING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON’T HAVE ANY MEDICAL ISSUES. >> RIGHT. THERE ARE-- OF COURSE, THERE’S AN INTERVIEW. EACH TIME YOU COME TO VISIT NASA, THE FIRST TIME AND THE SECOND TIME, THERE’S AN HOUR LONG INTERVIEW. >> MM-HMM. >> THERE-- >> SO, IT’S TO TIMES THAT YOU COME? YOU COME-- >> WELL, THE FIRST TIME-- >> OKAY. >> FOR MY CLASS, THE FIRST TIME THEY INTERVIEWED PEOPLE THEY INVITED 120 PEOPLE TO COME. >> OKAY. >> AND THEN, OF THAT 120 THEY PARED IT DOWN TO 40 OR 50 FOR A SECOND INTERVIEW. >> WOW. >> AND BECAUSE THE MEDICAL EXAMS, YOU CAN IMAGINE ARE SO EXPENSIVE, THEY ONLY GIVE THE MEDICAL EXAMS MOSTLY TO THAT SMALLER GROUP. >> MAKES SENSE. I MEAN, HONESTLY, LIKE TO BE AN ASTRONAUT, NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SUPER SMART AND BE ABLE TO GET ALONG WITH YOUR CREWMATES AND EVERYTHING, BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU’RE IN TIP TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE AND THAT NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG. YOU WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY GET THE CALL TO BE-- >> YES, YEAH. >> WHAT WAS THAT LIKE? WHERE WERE YOU? >> I WAS ACTUALLY IN THE MISSION CONTROL CENTER WORKING AS A CAPCOM THAT DAY. >> OH. >> SO IT WAS-- I’M PRETTY SURE THEY DIDN’T KNOW WHERE I WAS. I ANSWERED MY CELL PHONE AND IT WAS TOUGH BECAUSE I WAS SO EXCITED, BUT I WASN’T IN A SITUATION WHERE I WAS ALLOWED TO ANNOUNCE IT TO ANYBODY. >> RIGHT. >> SO I’M SITTING AROUND A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT I’M WORKING WITH AND I JUST WANTED TO CHEER, BUT I JUST-- AND I HAD TO-- BUT, I WAS STILL WORKING ON CONSOLE. I HAD TO BE LISTENING FOR THE CREW TO CALL AND I HAD TO BE LISTENING TO WHAT THE GROUND WAS TALKING ABOUT. >> YEAH. >> SO I HAD TO JUST ACT LIKE IT DIDN’T HAPPEN AND JUST GET BACK TO WORK. >> SO, IN THAT SITUATION, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, YOU’RE ONLY ALLOWED TO TELL VERY FEW PEOPLE, LIKE YOUR WIFE AND YOUR PARENTS. >> I TOLD MY WIFE-- YUP. >> AND THAT’S PRETTY MUCH IT. >> YEAH, I THINK I SENT MY WIFE AN EMAIL, TOLD HER WHAT HAD HAPPENED, AND THEN ONLY ABOUT THREE HOURS LATER DID I-- THAT I SENT HER ANOTHER EMAIL THAT SAID, “OH, AND DON’T TELL ANYBODY ELSE.” >> OH. [ LAUGHING ] >> YEAH, LET’S JUST SAY THAT WASN’T QUITE AS SUCCESSFUL AS I SHOULD’VE MADE IT. >> OH, MAN, THAT HAD TO BE-- I CAN’T EVEN IMAGINE JUST GETTING THAT CALL. THAT WOULD BE-- >> I WAS-- YEAH, I WAS PRETTY EXCITED. >> YEAH. >> LET’S GO BACK TO SOME OF THE OTHER TRAINING. SO YOU HAVE-- WE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE JUST TRAINING FOR ON ORBIT, SURVIVAL TRAINING. HOW ABOUT, I GUESS, SOYUZ TRAINING. NOW, YOU SAID THAT NOW THEY SWITCHED THE CREWS AROUND AND NOW YOU HAVE TO LEARN A LOT MORE. NOW YOU HAVE TO-- YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE KIND OF NOT THE HOT SEAT BUT I GUESS ONE OF THE HOT SEATS? IS THAT HOW THAT WORKS? >> YES. >> OKAY. >> AS I INITIALLY STARTED TRAINING I WAS IN THE RIGHT SEAT. >> OKAY. >> WHICH HAS VERY LIMITED RESPONSIBILITIES. THE CREW-- WELL, EXAMPLE, JACK FISCHER AND FYODOR YURCHIKHIN, WHEN THEY LAUNCHED THEY DIDN’T HAVE ANYBODY IN THE RIGHT SEAT. >> RIGHT. >> THEY DON’T-- YOU DON’T NEED SOMEONE TO BE THERE. >> OKAY. >> THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE MORE UNCOMFORTABLE FOR-- IT’S VERY, VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE A RIGHT SEATER, AND I REALIZED THAT WHEN I STARTED TRAINING AS A LEFT SEATER BECAUSE YOU NEED SO MUCH MORE TIME TO TRAIN AS A LEFT SEATER. >> MM-HMM. >> YOU DON’T ALWAYS HAVE THE RIGHT SEATER THERE. AND SO, JUST HAVING AN ADDITIONAL PERSON WHO YOU CAN SAY, “HEY, REMIND ME WHEN-- TELL ME WHEN FIVE MINUTES GOES BY,” OR “CALCULATE AT WHAT RATE THE PRESSURE'S DROPPING SO THAT WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH TIME WE HAVE TO-- CAN WE WAIT TO LAND AT OUR NOMINAL LANDING SPOT? OR DO WE HAVE TO START THE LANDING PROCESS IMMEDIATELY, WHEREVER THAT TAKES US?” I’M TALKING ABOUT SITUATIONS IN THE SIMULATIONS IN RUSSIA WHERE THEY’RE MAKING IT A REALLY BAD DAY IN THE SOYUZ. >> RIGHT. YEAH. >> SO, WHEN I CHANGED TO BEING A LEFT SEATER IT WAS A LOT-- YOU’RE REALLY HELPING TO OPERATE THE SPACECRAFT. >> MM-HMM. >> THE TRAINING’S GOOD, BUT YOU CAN IMAGINE THE FIRST TIME YOU’RE IN THERE PRESSING BUTTONS AND RECOGNIZING THAT, “IF I MESS THIS UP THIS IS REALLY GOING TO BE BAD.” AND I’VE DONE IT SO MANY TIMES NOW THAT I’M WELL PAST WORRYING ABOUT THAT. >> OH, YEAH. >> BUT, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES ON AND IT’S-- THE TRAINERS THERE DO A REALLY GOOD JOB OF MAKING YOU READY FOR A REALLY, REALLY BAD DAY, BUT EVEN GIVEN SIX MALFUNCTIONS-- WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE SIMULATIONS THAT I DON’T THINK I’LL EVER FORGET WAS WE WERE DOCKING WITH THE SPACE STATION AND THIS-- THE AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS TO DOCK HAD STOPPED WORKING, SO THE COMMANDER HAD TO TAKE OVER AND DO EVERYTHING MANUALLY. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THEN, WE GOT UP TO THE SPACE STATION, WE MADE CONTACT WITH THE SPACE STATION. I WAS EXPECTING THE SIMULATION TO END AT ANY MOMENT, BECAUSE ALL WE HAD TO DO AT THIS POINT WAS-- THE WAY THE SOYUZ DOCKING MECHANISM WORKS IS THERE’S A PROBE THAT STICKS OUT THE FRONT, AND THEN ONCE IT MAKES CONNECTION WITH THE SPACE STATION THEN THE NEXT STEP IS YOU RETRACT THAT PROBE AND THAT DRAWS THE TWO SPACECRAFTS TOGETHER. >> OKAY. >> SO WE’RE IN THAT SITUATION, WE’RE CONNECTED NOW TO THE SPACE STATION, BUT THE RETRACTION MECHANISM DIDN’T WORK. >> OH. >> SO WE COULDN’T GET THAT LAST DISTANCE TO CLOSE THE GAP WITH THE SPACE STATION. AND SO, WE’RE GOING THROUGH THE TROUBLESHOOTING FOR THAT. IT WASN’T-- NOTHING HAD TO HAPPEN SUPER FAST. >> MM-HMM. >> WE HAD TIME, SO WE’RE KIND OF GOING THROUGH THAT PROCEDURE. >> OKAY. >> AND THEN, IN THE MIDST OF THAT, SUDDENLY SIMULATED SMOKE STARTED COMING FROM UNDERNEATH THE SPACECRAFT. >> FANTASTIC. >> SO HERE WE ARE-- SO IN THE MIDST OF THAT, WE HAD A FIRE WHERE WE COULDN’T GET TO THE SPACE STATION. WE HAD TO DO AN EMERGENCY UNDOCKING AND THEN HAD-- SO WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE EMERGENCY DESCENT PROCESS. >> WOW. >> AND IT WAS JUST TOTAL-- IT WAS A LOT OF-- TONS OF STUFF HAD TO HAPPEN REALLY FAST AT THAT POINT. >> WOW. YEAH, BECAUSE I MEAN, IF YOU’RE GOING THROUGH THE SIMULATION YOU THINK, LIKE YOU SAID, THIS IS THE LAST THING. >> YEAH, I WAS MENTALLY KIND OF ON THE, LIKE, WINDING DOWN, LIKE, “OKAY, IT WON’T BE LONG NOW AND WE’LL BE DONE.” >> YEAH. >> AND THEN, IT WAS LIKE A WHOLE OTHER SIMULATION STARTED. >> WOW. OH, MY GOSH. THE THINGS YOU GUYS HAVE TO GO THROUGH IS JUST UNREAL. >> BUT, IT’S REALLY KIND OF COOL, TOO. >> IT IS. IT IS. BUT, THAT’S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, RIGHT? SO A LOT OF THE-- A LOT OF THE TRAINING IS NOT ONLY KIND OF UNDERSTANDING THE SYSTEMS AND DOING JUST THE DAY TO DAY STUFF, BUT REALLY, “HEY, IF THIS SCENARIO HAPPENS, THIS IS WHAT YOU DO. IF THIS SCENARIO”-- LIKE, A LOT OF PROCEDURAL STUFF. >> AND NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WE’RE DOING IT AS A CREW BECAUSE THE STYLES OF EACH PERSON ARE DIFFERENT. AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS OF THAT SOYUZ COMMANDER ARE FOR ME AS A LEFT SEATER VERSUS THE CREW WHO HAD TRAINED FOR YEARS TO DO THAT ROLE WHERE I WAS GETTING ANOTHER SIX MONTHS TO DO THAT. >> YEAH. >> SO THE TEAMWORK ASPECT IS HUGE. >> RIGHT. I MEAN, THAT’S TRUE FOR SOME OF THESE THINGS, BUT ALSO, I GUESS, EVA TRAINING, TRAINING IN THE NEUTRAL BUOYANCY LABORATORY. >> YES. >> SO I’M SURE YOU’VE DONE THAT BEFORE, RIGHT? >> A LOT, YUP. >> YEAH, SO WHAT KIND-- HOW OFTEN HAVE YOU BEEN IN DOING THAT KIND OF TRAINING AND SORT OF WHAT IS IT LIKE? >> BEFORE I GOT ASSIGNED, I DID IT ABOUT AN AVERAGE OF SEVEN TIMES A YEAR. >> OKAY. >> AND I THINK I WAS KIND OF PUSHING TO GET MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT. >> OKAY. >> NOW THAT I’VE BEEN ASSIGNED, IT’S PROBABLY BEEN A LITTLE LESS THAN THAT. >> INTERESTING. >> BUT, IT’S ALWAYS A SIX HOUR-- IT’S TYPICALLY SIX HOURS UNDERWATER-- >> RIGHT. >> --IN THE EXTERNAL MOBILITY UNIT IS WHAT WE CALL IT, THE SPACEWALKING SPACESUIT. >> MM-HMM, EMU. >> MM-HMM. AND JUST IN CASE PEOPLE AREN’T AWARE, THE WAY THAT WORKS IS THERE’S DIVERS THAT ARE AROUND US TO HELP BALANCE THE SUIT TO MAKE IT AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE A SIMULATION OF WEIGHTLESSNESS. >> RIGHT. >> IT’S-- BECAUSE OF THE AIR VOLUME IN THE SUIT AND THE FACT THAT THE SUIT IS ACTUALLY QUITE HEAVY, IT WOULD BE REALLY EASY TO END UP IN A SITUATION WHERE YOUR LEGS ARE REALLY, REALLY LIGHT AND YOUR CHEST IS HEAVY, AND YOU WOULDN’T HAVE THE STRENGTH TO FLIP YOURSELF SO THAT YOUR FEET ARE BACK UNDERNEATH YOU AGAIN. >> RIGHT. >> SO THE DIVERS WILL HELP TRY TO MAKE IT SEEM A LITTLE MORE LIKE YOU’RE OUT IN SPACE, HOWEVER, THE SUIT IS FLOATING. YOU’RE NOT FLOATING INSIDE THE SUIT. >> YEAH. >> SO IF YOU’RE UPSIDE DOWN IN THE SUIT THEN ALL THE WEIGHT OF YOUR BODY MIGHT BE RESTING ON YOUR SHOULDERS, SO IT’S-- IT CAN NEVER BE A PERFECT SIMULATION. >> YEAH. I GUESS, I MEAN, FROM WHAT I’VE HEARD IS KIND OF-- SO, LIKE YOU SAID IT, YOU’RE UNDERWATER IN THIS HUGE POOL THAT’S LIKE 40 FEET DEEP, JUST ENORMOUS, AND THEY HAVE FULL SCALE MOCKUPS OF THE ISS UNDERNEATH SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY KIND OF FEEL LIKE WHAT IT WOULD BE TO BE ON THE STATION AND HAVE KIND OF THE MUSCLE MEMORY TO KNOW, “OKAY, THIS IS HERE, AND THIS IS HERE, AND THEN THIS HANDRAIL’S HERE,” SO YOU KNOW KIND OF WHERE TO GRAB ON AND EVERYTHING. BUT, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IS YOU’RE RIGHT, IT’S PROBABLY AS CLOSE TO SIMULATING WHAT IT’S LIKE TO ACTUALLY DO A SPACEWALK AS POSSIBLE. >> MM-HMM. >> BUT, FIRST OF ALL, YEAH, IF YOU’RE UPSIDE DOWN IN SPACE, THAT’S IT, YOU’RE JUST UPSIDE DOWN BUT YOU’RE STILL KIND OF FLOATING IN THE SUIT. >> MM-HMM. >> WHEREAS, YOU STILL HAVE GRAVITY ON EARTH, SO YOU’RE RIGHT, YOU FEEL THE WHOLE WEIGHT. BUT THEN ALSO MOVING, YOU STILL HAVE THAT WATER RESISTANCE, RIGHT. >> THAT’S TRUE. THAT’S VERY TRUE. >> SO I GUESS THINGS FLY A LITTLE BIT QUICKER IN SPACE THAN THEY WOULD IF YOU WERE TO TOSS THEM OR MOVE YOUR HAND OR SOMETHING IN UNDERWATER. AND I’M SURE YOU’VE KIND OF NOTICED A LITTLE BIT OF THAT, RIGHT? AND MAYBE THE DIVERS ARE SORT OF-- ARE SORT OF PUSHING THINGS A LITTLE BIT FASTER SO THAT IT SIMULATES IT? >> NO, WE-- I THINK SOMETIMES BECAUSE IT’S SO HARD FOR THE DIVERS TO TELL WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO DO. >> OKAY, YEAH. >. THEY TEND TO LIKE LET YOU DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, UNLESS THEY CAN TELL IF THERE’S A SITUATION WHERE IT’S CLEARLY NOT. OR, YOU MIGHT-- WHAT I STARTED DOING WITH THE DIVERS IS I REALIZED THAT SOME THINGS THERE’S NO NEED FOR YOU TO FIGHT THROUGH JUST TOUGHING SOMETHING OUT. >> MM-HMM. >> SOMETIMES THEY’LL SAY-- WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A BODY RESTRAINT TETHER. >> OKAY. >> IT’S KIND OF LIKE A SNAKE THAT YOU CAN RIGIDIZE IN A CERTAIN SHAPE. >> MM-HMM. >> AND IT’S LIKE A THIRD ARM. YOU CAN USE IT TO ATTACH YOURSELF TO THE SPACE STATION SO YOU HAVE TWO HANDS FREE AND YOU CAN DO WORK. >> MM-HMM. >> OR, IF YOU HAVE A LARGE WHAT WE CALL AN ORU, AN ORBITAL REPLACEABLE UNIT. >> OKAY, IT’S LIKE A SPARE PART ALMOST? >> A SPARE PART. >> YEAH. RIGHT. >> IT COULD BE VERY LARGE. IT COULD BE REALLY TINY. >> OKAY. >> YOU CAN ATTACH THAT TO THAT BODY RESTRAINT TETHER AND TRANSLATE ALONG AND IT'LL JUST BE THERE. >> OKAY. >> WELL, IMAGINE THAT THAT THING WANTS TO FLOAT UP TO THE SURFACE OF THE WATER. >> RIGHT. >> OR WANTS TO SINK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE POOL. THE DIVERS WILL HOLD ON TO THAT, BUT THEN YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE THIS ARM STICKING OFF OF YOUR HIP AND IF A DIVER DOESN’T REALIZE THAT YOU’RE TRYING REALLY HARD TO ROTATE TOWARDS YOUR RIGHT SHOULDER YOU’RE NOT JUST TRYING TO ROTATE YOURSELF, YOU’RE SUDDENLY TRYING TO ROTATE THIS DIVER WITH A TANK WHO’S HOLDING ON TO THAT. >> RIGHT. >> SO WHEN I REALIZED THAT THAT BECOMES AN ISSUE SOMETIMES IS THAT I JUST SAY, “HEY, I’M NOT SURE WHY, BUT I’M HAVING A HARD TIME ROTATING TOWARDS MY RIGHT SHOULDER.” AND THEN SUDDENLY IT’LL BECOME VERY EASY TO ROTATE TOWARDS MY RIGHT SHOULDER. >> SO YOU DON’T HAVE DIRECT COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE DIVERS THEN? >> OH, THERE’S UNDERWATER SPEAKERS. >> OH. >> SO EVERYTHING YOU’RE SAYING-- IF THERE’S A LOT OF NOISE UNDERWATER, BECAUSE WHEN WE DO SCUBA STUFF SOMETIMES IT IS HARD TO HEAR. >> UH-HUH. >> WHEN YOU’RE BLOWING BUBBLES OUT, THERE’S A LOT OF NOISE FROM THE BUBBLES. BUT IF THEY STOP BREATHING FOR A MOMENT THEY CAN HEAR WHAT YOU’RE SAYING AND THEY’RE REALLY, REALLY GOOD ABOUT KEEPING TRACK OF WHAT WE’RE SAYING. >> THAT’S RIGHT. YEAH, AND THEY DO-- I MEAN, I’VE SPOKEN WITH DIVERS IN THE PAST AND THEY DO-- SO YOU GUYS DO SIX HOUR KIND OF SIMULATIONS UNDERWATER AND THEY DO TWO HOUR ROTATIONS. >> MM-HMM. >> AND IT’S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE ASTRONAUTS ARE IN THE EMUs, SO YOU GUYS HAVE THE LIQUID COOLING GARMENT, AND YOU GUYS ARE AT A PRETTY GOOD TEMPERATURE. BUT FOR THEM, TWO HOURS IS A LONG TIME TO BE IN THE POOL AND THE TEMPERATURES, SO THEY DO THAT KIND OF ROTATION THING. >> YEAH, THAT’S TRUE. YEAH, IT’S ALSO PARTLY BECAUSE IT’S SUCH-- THEY’RE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SAFETY AND IT’S A VERY-- THEY’VE GOT TO BE VERY, VERY ATTENTIVE SO THEY GOT TO MAKE SURE THEY’RE SUPER ALERT. AND THERE ARE LIMITATIONS FOR HOW LONG YOU CAN DIVE ON THOSE TANKS. >> YEAH. YEAH. SO, I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK ABOUT WITH BEING AN ASTRONAUT AND PREPARING TO BE AN ASTRONAUT IS JUST HOW PHYSICALLY ABLE YOU HAVE TO BE. YOU HAVE TO-- BECAUSE YOU’RE TALK-- I MEAN, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SPACESUITS, THESE ARE VERY HEAVY AND BEING ABLE TO SPEND SIX HOURS UNDERWATER IN A POOL, NOT EATING, YOU KNOW, I’D BE SO HUNGRY AFTER SIX HOURS. BUT, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHAT DO YOU DO TO STAY HEALTHY AND TO MAKE SURE YOU’RE PHYSICALLY AT YOUR PEAK TO MAKE SURE YOU’RE ABLE TO DO ALL OF THESE CRAZY THINGS-- SURVIVE IN RUSSIA IN THE WINTER, AND STUFF LIKE THAT? >> SO, I HAD A BOSS ONE TIME WHEN I FIRST-- EARLY IN MY ARMY CAREER, THAT SAID MAKE PHYSICAL TRAINING THE FIRST PRIORITY OF EVERY DAY. >> HMM. >> AND I THINK SOMETIMES WE DON’T GIVE OURSELVES PERMISSION TO DO THAT. WE MIGHT FEEL A LITTLE GUILTY, LIKE IT ALMOST SEEMS SELFISH. >> YEAH. >> BUT, BECAUSE MY BOSS TOLD ME THAT, IT REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT STUCK WITH ME AND I REALLY I CAN’T AFFORD TO ALWAYS MAKE IT THE FIRST PRIORITY OF EVERY DAY. >> MM-HMM. >> BUT, I’VE RECOGNIZED THAT IT REALLY DOES NEED TO BE A PRIORITY AND THE NICE THING ABOUT THIS JOB IS THE JOB GIVES US OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT. >> MM-HMM. >> IT’S GOT A GREAT FACILITY. WE’VE GOT GREAT TRAINERS AND WE’VE ALSO GOT-- IF WE INJURE OURSELVES WE’VE GOT PEOPLE THAT’LL HELP US GET REHABILITATED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. >> AND YOU GUYS-- THE ASTRONAUTS ACTUALLY HAVE THEIR OWN GYM HERE, RIGHT, AT THE JOHNSON SPACE CENTER? >> IT’S ACTUALLY NOT REALLY CALLED THE ASTRONAUT GYM. >> OH, OKAY. >> IT’S MORE DESIGNED TOWARDS A REHABILITATION FACILITY. >> OH. >> SO, WHEN PEOPLE COME BACK FROM SPACE, WE NEED-- THEY’VE GOT TO READAPT TO LIVING IN GRAVITY AGAIN. >> RIGHT. >> AND THAT’S REALLY THE PRIMARY FUNCTION. >> MM-HMM. >>IT WORKS OUT THAT AS A SECONDARY BENEFIT OF THAT IS WE GET SOME REALLY GOOD WORKOUT FACILITIES. >> THAT’S RIGHT. I REMEMBER TALKING WITH, AGAIN, SHANE KIMBROUGH A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I THINK AT THIS POINT. YEAH, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND HE HAD-- I GOT THE CHANCE TO TALK WITH HIM JUST TWO DAYS AFTER HE LANDED. >> MM-HMM. >> AND HE WAS ALREADY WORKING OUT. IT’S CRAZY. I MEAN, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT BEING DIZZY JUST RIGHT AFTER LANDING, AND THEN, BAM, HE’S UP ON HIS FEET AND BEING REHABILITATED. >> MM-HMM. >> THAT’S CRAZY. SO, ARE THERE ANY OTHER SORT OF TRAINING ASPECTS THAT, LIKE, WE NEED TO KNOW BASED-- >> INTERESTING STUFF? >> YEAH, INTERESTING STUFF THAT YOU GO THROUGH THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, A CIVILIAN LIKE US DON’T REALLY GET TO EXPERIENCE. YOU KNOW, I KNOW ABOUT THE SURVIVAL TRAINING, ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU DO TO PREPARE FOR BEING ON ORBIT, LEARNING ALL THE SYSTEMS, LEARNING HOW TO DO EVAs, ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. >> YEAH, THERE’S ANOTHER FACILITY THAT I THINK IS REALLY, REALLY NEAT. IT’S CALLED THE VIRTUAL REALITY LAB HERE AT JOHNSON SPACE CENTER. >> OH. >> HAVE YOU EVER BEEN OVER THERE? >> YOU KNOW, I’VE SEEN IT. OH, IS THAT THE ONE WHERE YOU SIT IN THE CHAIR AND THEY PUT THE GOGGLES OVER YOU AND YOU HAVE THE HANDS-- YES, I’VE DONE THAT, YEAH. >> THAT’S AMAZING. THERE’S TWO THINGS THAT I’VE REALLY GOTTEN A KICK OUT OF LATELY DOING OVER THERE. ONE IS THE-- PRACTICING USING THE SAFER-- >> OH, OKAY. >> SO, EVERYTIME WE DO A SPACE WALK, WE’RE ALWAYS TETHERED TO THE SPACE STATION, SO THAT-- AND WE’RE LOCALLY TETHERED, SO IF YOU LET GO, YOU SHOULD STAY RIGHT WITHIN HANDS REACH OF SOMETHING. >> RIGHT. >> BUT ALSO ANOTHER, MUCH LONGER TETHER, JUST IN CASE WE MESS THAT UP, THAT WILL KEEP US SAFELY ATTACHED TO THE SPACE STATION. BUT IF WE MESS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS UP, THERE’S ALSO A THING CALLED THE SIMPLIFIED AID FOR EVA RESCUE. IT’S CALLED A SAFER. >> SAFER. >> IT LOOKS LIKE A BACKPACK THAT WE WEAR THAT’S BASICALLY A JET PACK. >> YEAH. >> BUT IT’S GOT VERY LIMITED RESOURCES AND YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT. SO, TO PRACTICE FLYING YOURSELF AS AN INDEPENDENT SPACECRAFT BACK TO THE SPACE STATION REQUIRES A LITTLE BIT OF TRAINING. SO, WHAT THEY DO IN THAT TRAINING IS THEY’LL TELL YOU, “OKAY, HERE’S WHERE WE’RE GOING TO START. YOU CAN SEE THE SPACE STATION RIGHT THERE.” I MEAN, YOU’RE WEARING THOSE GOGGLES, SO YOU CAN LOOK IN ANY DIRECTION AND YOU SEE EITHER STARS OR THE EARTH OR THE SPACE STATION. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THEN, THEY’LL SAY, “OKAY, WE’RE GOING TO START THE SIMULATION.” AND THEY’LL PUSH YOU OFF OF THE SPACE STATION. >> WHOA! >> SO THE SPACE STATION WILL BE SPINNING AND YOU’LL BE-- THE DISTANCE WILL BE INCREASING BETWEEN YOU AND THE SPACE STATION. >> SO YOU’RE SORT OF TUMBLING IN THIS SIMULATION, RIGHT? >> YES, ABSOLUTELY. >> OH, WHOA! >> AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME FOR-- THEY KNOW THAT IT TAKES SOME TIME TO DEPLOY THE SAFER AND THE HAND CONTROLLERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. >> OKAY. >> SO, MAYBE TEN SECONDS. I CAN’T REMEMBER EXACTLY. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THEY’LL TELL YOU-- BECAUSE, YOU’RE INITIALLY-- THEY DON’T HAVE A MOCK UP WHERE YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY DEPLOY THE SAFER. YOU START OFF WITH HOLDING IT IN YOUR HANDS. >> OH. >> BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT’S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME, THEY DON’T LET YOU START IT RIGHT AWAY. >> MAKES SENSE, OKAY. >> SO THEY’LL SAY, “OKAY, NOW YOU CAN START IT.” BUT, THE FIRST THING YOU’VE GOT TO DO IS CALL THE GROUND AND SAY, “HEY, THIS IS EV2. I’M NOT CONNECTED TO THE SPACE STATION. I’M HEADING NADIR AND I’M DEPLOYING THE SAFER.” WHICH, YOU CAN IMAGINE, WOULD BE A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE SITUATION. >> OH, YEAH. YEAH, THAT’S A VERY CALM WAY OF SAYING, “HEY, I’M PLUMMETING TOWARDS EARTH, BY THE WAY.” >> AND IT’S A PRETTY SLOW SPEED, THANKFULLY. >> THAT’S TRUE. >> BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A SPEED WHERE YOU PUSHED YOURSELF OFF. >> OKAY, OKAY. >> BUT THE SAFER’S REALLY NEAT. ONCE YOU DEPLOY IT, IT WILL STOP ITSELF. SO, YOU MIGHT BE SPINNING, BUT ONCE YOU-- IT’S GOT SENSORS, SO IT WILL STOP ALL THE ROTATIONS. SO, YOU’LL BE FIXED IN ONE LOCATION. IT MIGHT BE LOOKING AWAY FROM THE SPACE STATION, BUT AT LEAST YOU’RE NOT ROTATING ANYMORE. AND THEN WE’RE TRAINED FIRST TO YAW, TO FIND THE SPACE STATION. >> OKAY. >> AND THEN-- SO WE START THAT YAW AND THEN ONCE YOU GET TO THE RIGHT STOP PLACE, THEN YOU PRESS A BUTTON AND IT’LL STOP THAT ROTATION AGAIN. >> FANCY. >> BASICALLY, YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN IMPULSE. DON’T USE UP MUCH OF THE RESOURCES. >> RIGHT. >> YOU WAIT, BE PATIENT, WAIT FOR THE SPACE STATION TO BE LINED UP, AND THEN YOU STOP IT, AND THEN YOU CAN ADJUST YOUR PITCH. >> OKAY. >> GIVE IT JUST A LITTLE BIT, BE PATIENT, WAIT SO YOU’RE JUST LINED UP. AND THEN YOU CHANGE IT FROM ADJUSTING ROTATIONS TO ADJUSTING THE TRANSLATIONS. >> OKAY. >> SO, IDEALLY, AT THAT POINT, YOU’RE LINED UP EXACTLY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, WHICH SHOULD BE EXACTLY WHERE YOU LEFT FROM, AND THEN YOU JUST GIVE IT A POSITIVE X. SO YOU START TRANSLATING DIRECTLY TOWARDS IT, JUST A LITTLE BIT. AND, IF YOUR AIM IS GOOD, YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE TO MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS AND YOU HAVE PLENTY OF RESOURCES TO GET BACK. >> ALL RIGHT. >> IF YOU MESS UP-- MAYBE YOU FORGOT HOW TO CONTROL IT-- YOU COULD BURN THROUGH HALF OF YOUR STUFF AND JUST COMPLETELY MISS THE SPACE STATION. >> OKAY, SO, IT’S NOT LIKE A JETPACK HOW YOU WOULD IMAGINE IN LIKE A SCI-FI MOVIE, WHERE YOU’RE JUST KIND OF ZOOMING AROUND. IT’S STOP, PRESS A BUTTON, TURN, PRESS A BUTTON, LEAN FORWARD, OR WHATEVER IT IS. >> YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDO ANY OF THOSE THINGS. >> RIGHT. >> YOU WANT TO DO EVERYTHING-- YOU WANT TO BE VERY CALM ABOUT IT. >> VERY METHODICAL, YEAH. >> AND THEY’LL DO IT AT A VARIETY OF LOCATIONS. THEY’LL DO IT FROM DIFFERENT VELOCITIES OF SEPARATION. >> OKAY. >> SO, THAT’S REALLY GOOD TRAINING. >> YEAH. >> ANOTHER THING-- DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? >> NO-- WELL, I MEAN, THE ONE THING I WAS GOING TO ASK WAS: DO YOU GUYS HAVE A COMPETITION TO SEE HOW ACCURATE YOU CAN GO ON THAT FIRST-- BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU’VE GOT TO LINE UP AND THE HOPE IS THAT YOU PRESS THE BUTTON ONCE AND THEN YOU GO RIGHT WHERE-- DO YOU GUYS HAVE COMPETITIONS TO SEE WHO’S THE MOST ACCURATE? >> I HAVEN’T EVER WALKED OUT OF THERE AND TRIED TO COMPARE HOW MUCH PROPELLANT I HAD LEFT TO SOMEBODY ELSE. BUT MAYBE THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD THING TO DO IN THE FUTURE. WE’LL HAVE LIKE AN ASTRONAUT OLYMPICS. >> YEAH, THAT WOULD BE FUN. >> THAT WOULD BE REALLY FUN. >> YEAH! >> OR REALLY HUMBLING. >> YEAH! GO THROUGH THE TRAINING AND SEE-- DO LIKE LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT. >> “HOW’D YOU SCORE?” >> “I HAD THIS MUCH PROPELLANT LEFT.” >> “OOH! I HAD THIS MUCH.” >> NO, BUT GO ON. YOU WERE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE. >> OH, ANOTHER THING THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY INTERESTING IN VIRTUAL REALITY LAB IS THEY TRAIN YOU HOW TO DO MASS HANDLING. SO, YOU PUT ON THOSE GLASSES AGAIN. >> OKAY. >> THIS TIME, AGAIN, YOU’RE SITTING IN THE CHAIR. BUT THEY HAVE, BASICALLY, HANDLES, LIKE WE WOULD HAVE FOR AN ORU. >> MM-HMM. >> IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT, IN SPACE, HAS A MASS OF 1,000 KILOGRAMS. IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT’S 200 KILOGRAMS. BUT THEY CAN SET UP THE COMPUTER, THE SIMULATION TO OPERATE THAT WAY. AND IT’S ATTACHED TO A BUNCH OF STRINGS IN EACH DIRECTION. >> OH. >> SO, YOU CAN START IT MOVING AND YOU’LL FEEL THE FORCE. AS YOU GET IT MOVING-- YOU CAN IMAGINE IF IT’S A TON-- >> RIGHT. >> AS YOU GET IT MOVING, IT’S HARDER TO GET IT TO STOP MOVING. AND MAYBE IT’S HARD TO GET-- >> OH. >> SO THINGS ARE, WE CALL IT, WEIGHTLESS. >> RIGHT. >> BUT THEY HAVE A LOT OF INERTIA. THEY HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF INERTIA AS THEY HAVE ON THE GROUND. >> MM-HMM. >> IF SOMETHING WEIGHS A LOT, IT’S GOING TO TAKE MORE FORCE TO GET IT STARTED MOVING-- >> MM-HMM. >> --AND MORE FORCE TO STOP IT MOVING. AND IT’S A REALLY INTERESTING-- IT’S THE CLOSEST TO DEALING WITH WEIGHTLESSNESS THAT I’VE EVER FELT, BECAUSE I HAD A LARGE OBJECT THAT I NEEDED TO LINE UP OVER SOME PINS. AND THEN, ONCE I GOT IT OVER THE PINS, I HAD TO LOWER IT DOWN. THE FIRST TIME I DID IT, I THINK, AS MOST PEOPLE WOULD, YOU HAVE A TENDENCY TO WANT TO BE MOVING IT ALL THE TIME. SO, I GRABBED THIS OBJECT. IT SEEMS REALLY HEAVY. I GET IT STARTED MOVING, BUT I KIND OF KEEP PUSHING IT. I’M USING MY STRENGTH TO KEEP IT MOVING. >> RIGHT. >> AND THEN, I HAD TO USE EVEN MORE STRENGTH TO GET IT TO STOP MOVING. THE SECOND TIME I DID IT, I REALIZED THAT ONCE I GOT IT STARTED MOVING I COULD ALMOST-- I COULD TAKE MY HAND-- BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY MOVING. NOTHING’S GOING TO STOP IT FROM MOVING. >> MM-HMM. >> SO, ONCE I GOT IT JUST MOVING REALLY SLOWLY I JUST PUT MY FINGERTIPS ON THOSE HANDLES AND THEY KEPT MOVING. >> OH. >> AND THEN I JUST-- VERY RELAXED AND VERY CALMLY WAITED FOR IT TO GET TO THE RIGHT SPOT. AND I GAVE IT VERY LITTLE PRESSURE TO STOP IT, THIS MASSIVE OBJECT. >> WOW! >> AND THEN I-- WHEN I WANTED TO MOVE IT DOWN-- I JUST GAVE IT A LITTLE BIT OF A NUDGE. AS SOON AS I KNEW THAT IT WAS MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, I JUST USED MY FINGERTIPS AND LET IT GO. AND I SUSPECT, WHEN YOU’RE IN SPACE, DOING A SPACE WALK THAT, BECAUSE WE’RE IN THE POOL, YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE THIS TENDENCY, WHEN WE WERE TRAINING AS A NEWBIE, TO WANT TO FEEL LIKE YOU’VE GOT TO CONTINUOUSLY FORCE YOURSELF TO KEEP MOVING. >> RIGHT. >> BUT ONCE YOU START GETTING YOURSELF TO MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, YOU JUST HAVE TO USE FINGERTIP PRESSURE TO TEND YOURSELF AND MAKE SURE YOU’RE CONTINUING TO DO THE RIGHT THING. >> SO, THAT’S THE NICE PAIRING BETWEEN DOING SIMULATION RUNS IN THE NEUTRAL BUOYANCY LABORATORY AND THEN GOING TO THE VIRTUAL REALITY AND DOING-- YOU JUST GET A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. >> EXACTLY. IN THE NBL-- IN THE NEUTRAL BUOYANCY LAB-- >> YEAH. >> YOU CAN MOVE 100 METERS. >> MM-HMM. >> IN THE VIRTUAL REALITY LAB, YOU CAN MOVE ABOUT A FOOT. YOU CAN MOVE SOMETHING ABOUT A FOOT. SO, IT’S REALLY JUST A FINE TUNING OF THINGS. >> IT’S THE LITTLE THINGS. BUT THEY’RE REALLY IMPORTANT, RIGHT? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> KNOWING THAT IF YOU TRY TO TUG THIS BIG, MASSIVE OBJECT REALLY, REALLY FAST, IT’S GOING TO BE REALLY HARD TO STOP. >> YES. >> THOSE ARE LITTLE THINGS BUT, ALSO, EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, MARK, THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO ACTUALLY SIT DOWN AND TALK THROUGH SOME OF THE ASTRONAUT TRAINING AND WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE SELECTED AS AN ASTRONAUT, ALL OF THE ABOVE. I KNOW YOU’RE VERY BUSY, SO I KNOW THIS IS A BIG CHUNK OF TIME FOR YOU. SO, THAT WAS AWESOME. BUT, FOR THE LISTENERS, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE, AND FOLLOW MARK’S JOURNEY ONCE HE GOES TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION, STAY TUNED UNTIL AFTER THE MUSIC CLOSING CREDITS THAT WE HAVE HERE AND WE’LL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHERE YOU NEED TO GO. SO, THANKS AGAIN, MARK, FOR COMING ON THE SHOW. >> THANK YOU. [ MUSIC ] >> HOUSTON, GO AHEAD. >> I’M ON THE SPACE SHUTTLE. >> ROGER, ZERO-G AND I FEEL FINE. >> SHUTTLE HAS CLEARED THE TOWER. >> WE CAME IN PEACE FOR ALL MANKIND. >> IT’S ACTUALLY A HUGE HONOR TO BREAK THE RECORD LIKE THIS. >> NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE EASY, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE HARD. >> HOUSTON, WELCOME TO SPACE. >> HEY, THANKS FOR STICKING AROUND. SO, TODAY WE TALKED WITH MARK VANDE HEI. HE’S GOING TO BE LAUNCHING TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION LATER THIS YEAR OR MAYBE RIGHT NOW, DEPENDING ON WHEN THIS PODCAST GETS POSTED. BUT MARK IS ON SOCIAL MEDIA. HE’S ON TWITTER @ASTRO_SABOT. THAT’S S-A-B-O-T, AND YOU CAN FOLLOW HIS JOURNEY ABOARD THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION AS HE TALKS ABOUT HIS DAY-TO-DAY LIFE AND MAYBE TAKES SOME PHOTOS FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT 250 MILES ABOVE THE EARTH. YOU CAN ALSO SEE HIS JOURNEY AT NASA.GOV/ISS. WE HAVE UPDATES ALL THE TIME ON WHAT’S GOING ON ABOARD THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION. SOME OF THE RESEARCH STUDIES AND EXPERIMENTS THAT MARK WILL BE TAKING PART OF WHILE HE’S ABOARD. ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WE’RE VERY ACTIVE. JUST GO TO FACEBOOK, TWITTER, OR INSTAGRAM. ON FACEBOOK IT’S INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION, ON TWITTER IT’S @SPACE_STATION, AND ON INSTAGRAM IT’S @ISS. WE’LL BE FOLLOWING MARK THROUGHOUT HIS JOURNEY AND POSTING PICTURES OF HIM AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE’S DOING WHILE ON THAT ORBITING COMPLEX. YOU CAN ALSO USE THE #ASKNASA ON ANY ONE OF THOSE PLATFORMS AND SUBMIT AN IDEA FOR THE PODCAST, MAYBE ASK ANY QUESTIONS, AND WE’LL MAKE SURE TO ANSWER IT IN A LATER PODCAST. THIS PODCAST WAS RECORDED ON MAY THE 4th. THAT’S RIGHT, WE RECORDED TWO PODCASTS ON MAY THE 4th. MAY THE FOURTH BE WITH YOU. SUPER LATE. I’M STILL GOING TO SAY IT. AND SPECIAL THANKS TO JOHN STOLL, ALEX PERRYMAN, PAT RYAN, AND JOHN STREETER FOR MAKING THIS PODCAST HAPPEN. AND THANKS AGAIN TO MR. MARK VANDE HEI FOR COMING ON THE SHOW. WE’LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

Empirical Evaluation of a Model of Team Collaboration Using Selected Transcripts from September 11, 2001

DTIC Science & Technology

2009-06-01

close coordination between the FAA and NORAD is required in order to maintain safety of the U.S. airspace. In order to interpret how the FAA and...386 Sergeant Bianchi: Hi, Sergeant Lucas calling from Lotus . MISC MISC MISC 387 Sergeant Bianchi: Yeah. MISC MISC MISC 388 Sergeant Lucas...TIE These guys have been sitting here and messing with this stuff. TIE US TIE You need some kind of food . TIE MISC MISC Sir

HWHAP_Ep3_Landing From Space

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-07-21

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 3, Landing from Space. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So on this podcast, we bring in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, pretty much all the folks that have the coolest information, the stuff you really want to know -- right on the show to tell you about everything NASA, everything from extraterrestrial dirt to the unknown parts of the universe. So today, we're talking landing from space with Dr. John Charles. He's the chief scientist for the NASA Human Research Program here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, and we talked about the more human side of space -- specifically, what happens to the human body in the microgravity environment and what that means for adjusting to life back on Earth, even on other planets, like Mars. I also had the chance to catch NASA Astronaut Shane Kimbrough just two days after landing from a 173-day mission aboard the International Space Station, and he gave a firsthand experience of what it feels like to adjust back to Earth's environment after living in space for that long. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. John Charles and then NASA Astronaut Shane Kimbrough. Enjoy. [ Music ] Host: All right. Dr. Charles, welcome. Is it, should I say Dr. Charles or John? John Charles: Call me John. Host: John, okay. [laughs] All right. Well, John, thanks for coming on the show. We always seem to end up in the same circles first with the landing on Mars video and with speaking presentations, and, you know, you were the first person I thought of when we had this topic. But what's cool about this one is for this particular podcast, I actually got a chance to talk to Shane Kimbrough two days after he landed, which was awesome. I mean, he was really tired, but it was pretty cool to talk to him. Not to say that you're not a special guest, but-- John Charles: I'll try not to be as tired as you are. [ Laughs ] Host: Well, we're doing this I guess after lunchtime, so I can understand. John Charles: Yeah, that's possible. Yeah. Host: It is. But what's cool is that he was just getting adjusted to Earth. It was perspective, of such a unique perspective. He just came down, and he was still getting adjusted, and that takes weeks, right? That takes-- John Charles: Yes, it may take -- well, some folks say it takes as long to respond to or adjust back to Earth as it did in flight. So there is going to be ongoing adjustments, especially in the areas of, say, the bone loss, that will take months, and months, and months before they even come back to what they were approximately before flight. Host: Yeah. I mean, even some astronauts say they have, they still have dreams about floating. I mean, even floating and-- John Charles: Yeah. Host: They kind of, I guess their body just doesn't know where they are. John Charles: That, it's certainly, it is certainly a monumental experience, and I cannot imagine ever getting tired of it or used to it. I understand Peggy Whitson was excited to get the mission extension of three more months. Host: Right. John Charles: And she said she was actually interested in going back again. So I think once you've experienced the wonders of weightlessness, and the awesome view out the window, and all the other parts of going on a spaceflight these days, it's not something you ever get used to, and it probably colors your dreams for many, many years to come. Host: That's beautifully put way. John Charles: Thank you. Host: A beautiful way of saying it. But that's what I guess, you know, for, at least for Shane Kimbrough is kind of I guess happy to be home. You know, when we were interviewing him, his wife was not too far away. So he was, you know, I'm sure he's happy to see his family. John Charles: Sure. Host: But I was thinking, you know, why don't we start off with that conversation with Shane Kimbrough? Because he does talk about a lot of the human aspects, and he just says, you know, I'm dizzy and this is how I'm feeling. So I thought it would be cool if we kind of elaborated on that a little bit after. But first, let's start with Shane Kimbrough's interview. We do have to go back in time, so producer Alex, let's cue the wormhole sound effect thingy. [ Music ] Host: So if you need to take a breather, you know, let me know because it's just like talking, and then talking-- Shane Kimbrough: No, no. It's— Host: And then talking, and then talking. Shane Kimbrough: Good. [laughs] Let's knock it out. Host: Oh, man. So, wow. Okay, I know it's been a busy couple of days for you, but, you know, thanks for taking the time to actually set, you know, ten minutes aside to have this conversation. You just landed two days ago. That's pretty crazy. [laughs] But since we only do have, like, a short period of time, I thought we'd start, and if you can just kind of take us through the journey of starting at when you were saying your final goodbyes to Peggy, and to Thomas, and Oleg, and then you just closed the hatch, and then that journey all the way to where you, bam, smacked the ground. Shane Kimbrough: All right. Yeah, we were, you know, it was an anticipated moment when we were going to say goodbyes. We'd kind of been sitting around for about an hour waiting on the time to, when Sergey, the Soyuz commander, came and said, "It's time to go." So we did say our goodbyes. We gave hugs to all the other crew members we were leaving, like you said -- Peggy, and Thomas, and Oleg. We spent about four-and-a-half months together with them, so we spent a lot of time together, so we got to be really good friends and crewmates. So it was great with them, but it was, you know, we were heading home, and so we had to say our goodbyes, quickly shut the hatch right after we say goodbyes, and then we started preparing our vehicle with leak checks and everything, trying to make sure we were leak tight before we departed from the Space Station. Host: So a lot of, like, a lot of right to the procedures, right. Not a lot of reflection time. Shane Kimbrough: Absolutely. Host: Just right into it. Shane Kimbrough: We didn't have any time to mess around [laughs] because you, we do a leak check, then we get in our space suits, and then we get in the descent module, close the hatch to the other module, and then we depart pretty quickly. So all had to happen, you know, by the procedure. If we had any hiccup in that, then we wouldn't have been leaving that day. So it was pretty pressure packed trying to get to the undocking time. And so we undock, and then we actually, after you undock, you have about an hour and a half, which is an entire revolution around the Earth, to really not do much. So we took a little nap [laughs] because we were-- Host: Well deserved. Shane Kimbrough: Really tired. I mean, they had us on a crazy sleep shift on the last day. And so we were pretty worn out. So we took a little nap and then got ready after that for the deorbit burn, which is a pretty big emotional event when the big engine fires off-- Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: And puts you on a trajectory to enter the Earth's atmosphere at the correct angle so that you actually make the landing site and make sure the vehicle's pointed in the right direction so you don't burn up when you're coming through the atmosphere. So that's obviously a plus. Host: So you didn't really feel the deorbit burn, right? You mainly felt the reentry? Is that what-- Shane Kimbrough: You do feel the deorbit burn-- Host: Oh. Shane Kimbrough: Because the engine kicks in and it's, you know, it's kind of like a kick in the pants, and you're thrown back in your seat. Host: Oh, wow. Shane Kimbrough: And it, you know, lasts I think about a couple minutes. So, you know, it's a sustained kind of pulse, and-- Host: You feel it that whole time, right? Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, you're feeling it. I mean, initially, you feel it a little more, and then you get used to it. Host: Right, right. Shane Kimbrough: And so then you're kind of getting ready to come back through the atmosphere, then separation of our descent module in the [inaudible], the habitation compartment happens. That's kind of like just an explosion, right. [laughs] So you feel it. You hear it. You see things flying by the windows from the other module that just came apart. So that's pretty interesting. Host: Yeah, not a boring ride. Shane Kimbrough: No, [laughs] not a boring ride. And then, we're kind of getting ready for the next big event. There's always, I mean, four or five big events along the way. The next one was parachute opening. Of course, after you started pulling, you're feeling the effects of gravity, all right. So we were pulling and we ended up pulling them 4.3 g's I think. So we felt like 4.3 times your body weight. Host: Wow. Shane Kimbrough: Which, after microgravity, felt like about 20 times your body weight. Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: And so that built up, and we kind of just felt it building. We're watching the meter go up, and, man, I was like, wow, that's a lot. And then, right after that, the parachute, you know, started coming out, and that was really an emotional event because it's really dynamic, [laughs] I guess is the best word. And it kind of throws you around really drastically four or five times, and, you know, it's completely normal. But until you go through it the first time, which is my first experience, I was like, there's no way this can be normal. Host: Yeah. [laughs] Shane Kimbrough: But it is, and that's the way they do it, and it's just the parachute coming out and getting set up and the risers getting in the right position. And then, once that's done and then it's kind of a peaceful ride until you crush into the ground. Host: Yeah, yeah. [laughter] Okay, so the swinging back and forth, how would you compare that? Is it -- I'm thinking of an amusement park ride, right. It's got to be more intense than that, right? Shane Kimbrough: It is, but, you know, I don't know if there's one out there that just really slams you to the right [laughs] and slams you to the left, and you do that five or six times, you know, in a -- you know, I can't think of one that does that, but that's what it was like. I couldn't believe it. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah. Host: I guess that's why they, you know, they kind of strap you into that thing real tight, right, because you're-- Shane Kimbrough: Right. Host: Getting bounced and kicked in, like, all-- Shane Kimbrough: Exactly, yeah. Host: Directions. Shane Kimbrough: So as we come in, you start, the advice I got was as soon as you start feeling the g-force, start pulling on your straps as much as you can to really get you down into that seat-- Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: So that you're not just secured but, you know, getting ready for the impact of the landing as well. Host: So is it fair to say that that landing was the hardest impact, probably? Shane Kimbrough: Oh, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. No doubt. Host: How did that feel? Shane Kimbrough: it was, you know, I've heard it called like, it's like a really bad car crash, and now I can confirm that that is accurate. Host: Wow. Shane Kimbrough: So you hit just really hard. And in our case, we hit twice really hard, so. Host: Oh. [laughs] And then, you roll around, right? Shane Kimbrough: And then, we rolled some more too just for added effect, so. Host: And then, you said, I remember you saying, because we did it in like a bunch of other events before this, but you said, like, you were in a position where you were just kind of dangling a little bit, right? Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, so I was kind of on-- Host: You were-- Shane Kimbrough: Top looking down at the ground, but-- Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: In that case, I was hanging from my straps. Host: Wow. Shane Kimbrough: Really uncomfortable feeling for about five minutes, five to ten minutes until they could get there and roll the vehicle kind of to the normal position. Host: Oh, that's it. Just five to ten minutes, and then they were there. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah. It was very likely we had perfect weather that day. The search and rescue forces saw us the whole time. And really, right after the parachute opened, they tracked us all the way to the ground, so they were right there-- Host: Wow. Shane Kimbrough: In about ten minutes and got us out pretty quickly. Host: So when that door opened and they pulled you out, what was that feeling? Was it relief or was it just more of the, you know, just here's the next step kind of thing? Or, like, describe those emotions. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, so the hatch, they opened the hatch, the search and rescue forces. And they're familiar faces from our training in Star City, Russia. I mean, they're Russian-- Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: Folks. But it was nice to see their smiling faces. And then, I saw my flight sergeant from NASA and the Chief Astronaut Cassidy right there as well. So, you know, we were all smiles and waving. We all felt great at the time. And getting out is very challenging because it is so small, like we were talking about earlier. Host: Right. Shane Kimbrough: But they have to help you out. You can't get out on your own for gravity for one, and then it's just too tight and too small. You can't even really get to unstrap yourself. They have to get in there. It's that tight. Host: Wow. Shane Kimbrough: Like, you can't move your hands enough to unstrap most of your straps, so they get in there and help you out doing that as well as pulling you out of the vehicle. Host: Yeah. So okay, when you first, you know, you're pulled out of the capsule. You have fresh air, familiar faces. Obviously, that's a great moment, but so now you're kind of, you're back on Earth. You can feel it, right? What's, how are you feeling -- do you feel sick? Do you feel, is it mostly happy? Is there overwhelming feelings? What's going on? Shane Kimbrough: I think people have felt all those things you've mentioned. [laughs] I really felt great. I love smelling that fresh desert air. It was kind of like a 60-degree day in Kazakhstan. Feels beautiful. The wind was blowing. It was just awesome to have that sensation of nature again for me. And then, just seeing friendly faces and knowing I was going to get to talk to my family pretty soon after that was pretty special. Host: Yeah, that's amazing. What was the, so what was the main thing you noticed about the way your body was adjusting to life back on Earth? Shane Kimbrough: Well, to not move your head around is great advice, I guess. [laughs] Yeah, because that really provokes some folks to get sick, so-- Host: Okay. Shane Kimbrough: I really try to keep my head focused straight ahead. If anybody was talking to me, I would make them come right in front of me so I didn't have to kind of, because the natural tendency is to just look at them, right, but that really gets your-- Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: Inner ear spinning up pretty well and-- Host: It must've been hard because there's a lot happening, right? People are-- Shane Kimbrough: There is. Host: All over. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: So I heard people to my side, and I was, I just told them, "Hey, come right in front of me so I can see you [laughter] because I'm not going to turn my head." Host: Yeah, exactly. So-- Shane Kimbrough: And it seemed to pay off, so. Host: Yeah. Well, okay, so besides feeling sick, were you weak, like are, can you move around, or what was the-- Shane Kimbrough: You can move around a little bit. Host: Okay. Shane Kimbrough: They were carrying us. You know, I wasn't walking anywhere at the time, and they had people that carried us to where we were sitting there for a while. And then, after that, they carried us to the medical tent. But once we got in there, then it was a bunch of testing, and walking, and with your eyes closed and open, and just crazy things. And, [laughs] you know, just trying to-- Host: You just don't get a break. Shane Kimbrough: See where you're at. [laughter] Host: You just don't get a break. And then, they throw you-- Shane Kimbrough: Yeah. Host: On, what is it? To get a helicopter, and then the helicopter-- Shane Kimbrough: Yeah. Host: To a plane. Shane Kimbrough: Right. Host: You're off to Houston. Shane Kimbrough: Exactly. Host: Did you -- I'm guessing you slept on the plane, right? Shane Kimbrough: I did. I slept-- Host: Yeah. Shane Kimbrough: Really well on the plane, so it was good. [laughter] Host: I probably should've start off this -- I just realized -- but how are you feeling now? Shane Kimbrough: I'm feeling, yeah, I'm feeling really well compared to what I thought I'd be feeling at this point. It's only two days after I landed, like you mentioned earlier, and I really feel great. I had a great workout today, which I think really made me feel better. Host: Oh, wow. You're right back into it. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, so we got about a 45-day program of working out and getting you rehabilitated, back to your full strength. Host: Okay. Shane Kimbrough: But it should only take maybe a week or so to get there, and then from there, we'll just build on whatever strength I have. Host: All right. All right, well, one more question, then I'll let you go. What was the first thing you ate when you got back here? Shane Kimbrough: [laughs] A lot of people are asking me that, and [laughs] it's a really boring answer, but it was a banana-- Host: Oh. Shane Kimbrough: Because that's something [laughs] I hadn't had in-- Host: A banana. Shane Kimbrough: A while. I was really wanting some fruit, and-- Host: That's true. It's not, yeah. Shane Kimbrough: I had a banana and an apple and had a bunch of those on the plane. [laughs] Host: Okay, so once you're -- how about this? -- once you're well enough, what's the first thing you're-- Shane Kimbrough: Yeah. Host: Going to eat? Shane Kimbrough: I think we're going to do some Italian tonight, which I've been thinking about. Host: Oh. Shane Kimbrough: So that's good. And then, Mexican probably here in the next few days as well, so. Host: All right. All right. >> It'll be good. Host: Definitely two good ones. Well, Shane, thank you for spending these couple minutes with me. Shane Kimbrough: My pleasure. Host: Thanks. Shane Kimbrough: Thanks, Gary. Host: Cool. [ Music ] Host: All right. Producer Alex, we're going to have to work on that wormhole sound effect. Come on. That was quite a ride. I mean, I was, [laughs] I honestly felt sick just listening to the way that he was going down. But there was a lot going on for every step of the way, so, I mean, first off, you know, what are those changes that he was talking about that makes him feel so, you know, so off when he lands on the ground? John Charles: The human body goes through many changes in weightlessness and the rest of spaceflight. I'm always interested most in weightlessness. I don't like the term microgravity. I think that's unnecessarily accurate. Host: There's a lot of synonyms, or syllables. John Charles: It's, yeah, a lot of syllables too. [laughs] But the weightlessness has profound effects, and I like to say that it's evolutionarily unanticipated. There's nothing that has ever happened to us in our lives and in all of the lives of everybody that lived before us, all the way back to as far as you want to go, that is weightlessness. Now, even floating in water is not weightlessness because you're still subject to gravity. The parts of your body that are denser go to the bottom and the parts of your body that are lighter float to the top, and that's true even in the vestibular system. The organs of balance he was talking about. Being dizzy. Those are not weightless, even underwater. The only time they're weightless is if you fall off a cliff, and then the effect is very short lived. Host: Right. John Charles: You don't get a chance to enjoy it very much. Host: Right. John Charles: So this is a real opportunity to, for the body to experience something that it's never experienced before ever, and not surprisingly, there are changes that occur in the body, and the changes might be summarized by the concept that the body economizes its metabolic energy. It doesn't waste energy supporting metabolic processes it doesn't think it needs. And nobody, you can't tell your body, hang on to that because you're going to need it eventually. The body doesn't talk to you in that sense. The body responds -- and by this, I mean the autonomic processes, the physiological processes -- respond to the environment that they have seen recently and are seeing at the moment. So as far as the body is concerned, gravity went away and it's never coming back. And so what do I need to do to be more effective metabolically in the environment that I will see forever? Host: It's just the body adapting to a new environment. John Charles: It's to a new environment. And luckily, the body adapts nicely to the weightless environment-- Host: Right. John Charles: Because it really is sort of a step down. It's less hard to do almost everything metabolically in weightlessness, and the body doesn't know that you're going back to Earth with gravity, so you have to fool the body to get back to, to get ready to go back to Earth. So you go through the changes of weightlessness, and these metabolic efficiencies I'm talking about include not maintaining bone strength. You don't need bone strength in weightlessness, and the body says, great, I'm not going to spend metabolic energy on that anymore. I'm going to dedicate it to something else. Host: Right. John Charles: You don't need muscle strength. You don't need cardiovascular strength so much. You don't need all of the intricate understanding of how to respond to gravity. You don't need to keep track of where all your joints are, your limbs, and all that kind of stuff. Host: Because all of that is gone in the weightless environment. John Charles: That's right. Host: It's just, you don't need your bones because you're not pressed up against anything. John Charles: You're not-- Host: You're just floating. John Charles: You're not supporting yourself anymore. Host: Right. John Charles: There is a residual bone strength, a residual bone volume or density that you will probably plateau at. If you stay in space forever, you will never become like the guys were in WALL-E when they had no bones. Host: [laughs] Yeah. John Charles: Just the big blobs of jelly. Host: That's right. John Charles: That would never happen. You probably, based on other studies and clinical experience, you'd probably lose up to 40% of your bone mass eventually. That is after years, and years, and years. Host: Wow. John Charles: So you, I mean, even so-- Host: Is this saying that you're not working out during those years? John Charles: Yeah, assuming you're just weightless. Host: Assuming you're just weightless. John Charles: Assuming you're just weightless and not working out, that's right. Host: Okay. John Charles: Which would be I think my preferred lifestyle. [laughs] I'd like to be weightless and not working out. But that, see, Gary, that's the answer, though, is the way we fool the body or don't fool the body. We just change the conditions is by working out. So the astronauts work out two hours a day every day, including resistive exercise, my favorite. I call that weight lifting in weightlessness. Host: Right. John Charles: And that's all done with hydraulics and computers. And then, or aerobic training -- exercising on treadmills, and bicycles, and maybe a rowing machine someday. And what that does is put a load on the bones, and the muscles, and the cardiovascular system, not the vestibular system, not the organs of balance, but all the other systems mimicking the absence or the effect of gravity, which is then absent in that environment. Host: So that's, so they're doing those you said aerobic and resistive. So that's the, I guess like you said, though, in space, the weight-lifting machine-- John Charles: Right. Host: Sort of with hydraulics-- John Charles: Right. Host: And that simulates weight lifting. And then, you also have aerobic exercise, which is the treadmill and the bicycle. John Charles: The bicycle. Host: So you have to do this I believe two and a half hours every single day-- John Charles: Yeah. Host: In order to maintain everything? John Charles: Right. And that's a total of two plus hours a day. That includes breakdown, and setup, and changing your clothes, and all that stuff. So you do-- Host: Oh, yeah. John Charles: You know, multiple tens of minutes at each. Host: I see. John Charles: And different exercises on different days. And I think one day is actually a free form. You can do whatever you want. But, you know, the other days are fairly prescribed. But what that does is put a load on the bones, and the muscles, and the cardiovascular system, and other organs as if they were doing something against gravity. It's not the same, but it's close. Host: So that's the way that you're saying you're tricking your body-- John Charles: You're tricking your body. Host: Into thinking that, you know, you don't need, you still need to maintain the muscles. Hold on. John Charles: Right. Host: Stop. You know. John Charles: You're maintaining them for something else. You're maintaining them for exercise and not for fighting against gravity. Host: Right. John Charles: But it has the beneficial effect in many cases of being appropriate for gravity. And in fact, the resistive exercises that we're doing now seem to minimize the loss of bone structure that occurs in weightlessness that has been seen on previous missions. So the Advanced Resistive Exercise Device, the ARED, may well be the way that we protect bones and muscles in the future on Mars missions. Host: Oh. John Charles: It may be that we're able to go on really long missions without losing much calcium and without changing the structure very much of the bones. And it's not the loss of calcium per se that's the problem. It's where the calcium comes out of. The bones are developed in everybody whilst you're growing up. Host: Right. John Charles: You're, when you're growing up, you know, you're, first, you're born with a skeleton, and then you spend the first 18 years of your life banging yourself around, and jumping up in trees and off of hillsides, and falling, and jumping, and running, and pulling, and lifting. And all that stuff shapes your body. Host: Yeah, and that's in childhood. John Charles: Right, and that, [laughs] well, I saw people do it. [laughs] Like I said, see previous comment. Host: Right, right. John Charles: But that shapes your body and gives you the structure you need to keep doing that for the rest of your life. And then, at some point, that, those structures, those facets are completed, and you can then go and do useful things with the body that you've built up over the first 18 plus years of your life. Host: Right. John Charles: So when you go into weightlessness, you start eating away at that in the absence of gravity, and if you come back to the Earth, you restore some of that, but you don't restore it the way it was originally. You restore it to the way it needs to be now, which means you don't go back inside the bones and reestablish the framework, the structure. And the bones actually have structure inside of them. The outside is called the cortex, and it's a thick layer. And then, on the inside are the trabeculae, and the trabeculae are like a framework. Think of a lattice work inside of your bones. And those, that lattice work is genetically engineered by you as you grow up to respond to the forces you're putting on bones. So it puts down calcium where the forces are the greatest and it doesn't put down calcium where the forces are not the greatest. But that's the structure you take with you for the remainder of your active life, unless you go into weightlessness. In which case, that obviously gets eroded gradually but persistently over the time in weightlessness. So your bones actually do lose calcium, do lose mass, bone mass, and you lose strength of the bones. Not, so far, not enough to cause you to fracture when you come back to the ground. There have been a couple of astronauts who have fractured bones in the post-flight period, and we have analyzed those, and they would've fractured their bones if they had never flown in space. They just caused an impact that broke bones, and that's just what happens. Host: They were trying to run up and down trees like their childhood days, right? John Charles: Well, they, yeah, nothing quite so [laughs] glamorous. One guy fell off of a stage after a public affairs presentation. He just-- Host: Oh no. John Charles: He didn't fall off. He tripped because there was something on the edge of the stage, so-- Host: Oh. John Charles: It was unavoidable whether he was an astronaut or not and whether he'd flown in space or not. Host: Right. John Charles: So we don't see bone-breaking episodes in astronauts that would not have broken their bones beforehand, but there's the risk that with even longer flights, longer than six months like Shane was on and longer than one year like Scott Kelly and Mikhail Kornienko were on, and perhaps, you know, two-and-a-half year Mars missions might be getting close to the threshold where you might start seeing a slight possibility, increased possibility of breaking bones under normal circumstances. Not during the mission, but after the mission when you're back on the Earth. You know, that's sort of, after 30 months, that's when you start getting close to that threshold. Host: So it has to do with the time that you're in the weightless environment? John Charles: It seems to be an ongoing process. And like I say, though, that process seems to be interrupted by the heavy resistive exercise. Host: Right. John Charles: So that sort of stretches that period out. So you're not at risk if you keep doing your heavy resistive exercise. But that's an interesting question too, and you haven't asked me that one yet, but I'll go ahead and answer it because-- Host: [laughs] You were just reading my mind. John Charles: Yeah. That is, are we going to do resistive exercise on the Mars missions? And the answer is I hope so. Host: Right. John Charles: But we probably will not be using the ARED. The ARED is a very large device that takes up an entire module on the-- Host: Right. John Charles: Space Station. It's a node, which is, that's a module. And we don't have, probably will not have that kind of real estate, that kind of volume available for that kind of device. So right now, what the Human Research Program is doing is trying to understand which of the exercises on the ARED are the most effective in protecting which of the bone facets that are important to protect. And then, building a smaller device that'll just do those. A tailored, specialized device. So this is maybe an important point to make, and that is astronauts will go on missions and will suffer deficits -- deficits that we know how to protect against because we can't afford to protect against them within the limited constraints of a spaceship. So we will give them a device that gives them certain exercise capabilities to protect them against deficits that we think are the most important. But we may be allowing the rest of other aspects of the, say, the other aspects of the skeleton to go ahead and atrophy just because we don't have the flexibility and the resources to protect them against that. We don't think that's going to put them at an increased risk because they're not going to be doing things that will need those aspects on the skeleton, for example. Host: Right, so you've prioritized and you-- John Charles: We had to prioritize lots and lots of things when we start talking about a Mars mission. Host: Right. Yeah. No-- John Charles: I knew we wanted to talk about a Mars mission [laughs] because that's the only thing you talk to me about ever. Host: [laughs] Well, we were getting there. John Charles: Yeah. Host: I was taking baby steps. John Charles: Yeah. Host: And you just jump right there. John Charles: I did. I did. Host: [laughs] I guess, so how would the exercises, since we are on Mars now, how would the exercise work on Mars, you know, if you're talking about landing on -- would you kind of use sort of the same thing, or can you afford a different type of exercise? John Charles: Well, it's going to have to be tailored for the Mars environment, and for the Mars environment means both exercising at one-third of a g, or 38% of Earth's normal gravity -- we call that a third of a g -- on Mars. And also, being appropriate for the spacecraft that will land on Mars. And you raised a very important question. I hope you realized you raised it because it's an important question. Host: [inaudible] intentional. John Charles: And that is, that's, it's a matter of economics to get to Mars. First, you got to build a spaceship, and then you got to send it there with fuel. And fuel is the coin of the realm in space. It takes lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of fuel to get any place. And if you get there, then it takes even more fuel to slow you down and land safely. So everything on the surface of Mars will be mass constrained and volume constrained because mass, volume requires mass. You know, if you build a small room, it's got less mass than a big room. So we are going to be focusing on not only what we can put into the Mars transit vehicle, which will be constrained by the volume of the vehicle, but also what we can land on Mars, which will be constrained by the volume of the lander and the mass capable of landing. So it may well be that we figure out, we hope we figure out a way to use that one-third of a g on Mars as a way to supplement some of the exercise that they would normally be doing in their mini-gym inside the Mars lander or the Mars habitat. Host: Right, so when you're thinking about a Mars mission, it kind of goes back to that idea of prioritizing, right. So just as you're going to prioritize which parts of the body are the most sensitive-- John Charles: Right. Host: The most important for you to maintain, when you're sending stuff to Mars, you got to prioritize which things are the most important things to bring, to send, and make sure they're really small, and light, and don't take up a lot of space. John Charles: Small, and light, and don't take up a lot of space, and don't take a lot of energy, don't take a lot of mass, power, volume, which are the-- Host: Right. John Charles: Important constraints of a spaceship. And just think, we started talking about this because I was trying to make the point that Shane's body is not back to normal yet still. It's, his bones are going to take months to get back to normal. But other organ systems may respond more quickly. Host: But they will get back to normal? His, is the months? John Charles: See, here's a metaphysical question -- what does normal mean in a case like this? Because your bone changes normally over the course of your lifetime, including over every six months. You know, he was gone for six months. His bone was going to be atrophying a little bit anyhow. Host: Right. John Charles: So we're not going to get him back to what he was before flight. And why would we? Because he wouldn't be at that condition now after his landing if he'd just been walking around the Earth for six months. Our goal is to get him back to where they need to be to live a full, happy, functional life here on Earth. But it's, you can't, you know, you can't go home again. You can't go back to your old skeleton again. It just, this is, things are different [laughs] with time in life, and that's doubly true for time spent in space. Host: Yeah. It doesn't matter. You're always going to, just going to get older. Time's-- >> You're going to get older. Host: Just going to go forward. John Charles: That's right. Host: But you, I guess, you know, bones are not the only thing you have to think about, right? You have to-- John Charles: That's correct. Host: Think about a lot of other things. Shane mentioned, you know, when he landed and they pulled him out, he couldn't even turn his head. He was extremely dizzy. John Charles: And see, I think this is the other extreme. The bones are the, some of the slowest to respond in spaceflight and some of the slowest to respond post flight during the recovery back on Earth, but the vestibular system is probably the fastest responder. The vestibular system is the organ system of balance, and it allows us to stay upright. We are constantly making adjustments in our bones and our muscles and the way they're lining our, lining us up. I mean, the old illustration is imagine balancing a broomstick. Remember broomsticks? We used to have brooms and broomsticks. And imagine balancing a broomstick upright on your, on the palm of your hand and all the adjustments you have to make to keep that upright. Host: Right. John Charles: That's how it is when you're walking. When you're walking and standing on one foot or even standing on two feet, your body is constantly adjusting its center of balance and its center of mass to stay over the center of pressure of the feet so you can stay upright. And that all requires sensors in the skin, sensors in the soles of the feet, sensors that detect the angles between the ankle, and the shinbone, and all the other bones, and the organs of balance inside the inner ear. And Gary, even though we're on a podcast, I am automatically pointing at my ears because the organs of balance are behind the inner ears. Host: I can see. John Charles: Yeah. Host: [laughs] But I guess no one else can. John Charles: Nobody else can. [laughs] But this organ system is exquisitely tuned to respond to motion and to respond to gravity. There are parts of it that detect how you move your head, and now I'm twisting my head left and right because that causes a sensation in my inner ear, which then is, at a most simple case, is translated to my eyeballs. So my eyes counteract the motion on my head so I can keep continuing to look at you while we're talking. But there are other organs that detect my tilting my head left and right, and those are the balance. So those are the otoliths. The other ones are the semicircular canals. But the otoliths, the otolith is ear stone, oto-lith. Host: Okay. John Charles: And those are little stones inside little sacs of fluid inside your head which detect which way down is. And those are the ones that are the most immediately affected by spaceflight and weightlessness because if your whole existence is predicated on detecting down and somebody takes away down, then what do you do? And that's sort of how the vestibular system responds to weightlessness is it spends a lot of time the first several hours or several days saying, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. My only job is to detect down and there is no down. What do I do now? Now, I'm built, you know, the organs of balance are built to detect motion and to detect directions of acceleration, so they may get more sensitive. In fact, the little otoliths in your ears might become bigger. They might accrete more of the mineral that they're made of because they, they're sure there's a down there someplace and that if they could only get heavier, they might be able to detect it again. Host: And this is over the first couple days of the spaceflight? John Charles: Over the, it's over the course of the spaceflight. Host: Oh, over the -- wow. John Charles: Over the course of the spaceflight. Over the course of the first few days -- thank you for bringing me back to the point at hand -- [laughs] over the course of the first few days, essentially the brain says, you know what? You guys are just making gibberish. You're not making any sense anymore. I'm going to start ignoring you. Now, the brain doesn't actually use words. It just sort of economizes the metabolic energy. It says, I'm not going to put so much metabolic energy into the nerves that come from the vestibular system because-- Host: Right. John Charles: I'm just getting gibberish from there and it just, it makes my, the stomach part of me sick. Let's just not pay attention so much to that anymore. And in fact, on Skylab, the American space station in the 1970's, when there was a rotating chair onboard specifically to see how often we could make astronauts sick in spaceflight -- rotating chairs are good ways to make people sick. If you rotate them and ask them to move their heads while they're rotating, that's a great way to be sick. Host: Oh, yeah. I remember those chairs. John Charles: Turns out after a few days in weightlessness, astronauts couldn't be made sick anymore by moving their heads while they were rotating because the-- Host: Yeah. John Charles: Organs of balance had adapted and also because the stimuli were different. Host: I've seen that video of Tim Peake, where I think it was Tim Peake and Tim Kopra, when they were both on the International Space Station-- John Charles: Yeah. Host: Kopra took Peake and just spun him around really, really, really fast-- John Charles: Yep. Host: And then stopped him suddenly. And Peake had like one moment where he stopped suddenly where, I mean, the whole time he was spinning, he didn't feel a thing. John Charles: Yeah. Host: And then, he stopped suddenly. He's like, "Okay, I'm dizzy for a second." And now he's good. John Charles: It's gone. Host: Yeah. John Charles: So there are quick responses, but as I say, you know, the organs of balance, vestibular system continue to, like I say, try to find gravity. And so they may actually increase the mass of the little stones inside your inner ears. And that's kind of an interesting novelty that nobody's figured out yet whether, what the functional -- operational, I should say -- significance -- functionally, we know what it means -- but operationally, what does it mean in terms of your ability to stand upright after you land on Mars? Or things like that. So there's lots of more, lots of research on, some topics for research that we can do in that domain. But the point I was trying to make originally is that this is a quick-responding organ system. Then, slightly slower will be the organs of your cardiovascular system. And those are all fluid based in the sense that they, you're a big, pressurized bag of fluid. Nothing personal, but all of us are. [laughs] And our goal is to stay pressurized by the function of our heart so that the blood can then perfuse the brain and also the blood pressure we carry around with us, 120/80, when the doctor does your blood pressure, tells you, yes, 120/80. Host: That's a good one. John Charles: That's the pressure that you need to get through the muscles when you're exercising. The, when your muscles are exercising, they're constricting and contracting. They're squeezing down the blood vessels. It takes a certain amount of blood pressure to push through there to deliver the nutrients that the muscles need to continue exercising. That's where your 120/80 comes from. And you have to continue building that pressure up. But in weightlessness, you're not exercising so much anymore. You're floating freely. You're relaxing, and your blood vessels are dilating, and your pressure, you'd actually lose blood volume in space. You may lose about a liter of blood in space. Host: Wow. John Charles: You may actually lose, that's about a blood donation, about the same amount as they take out of you when you donate blood, half a liter or a liter. Host: Huh. John Charles: Yeah, that's because the body's, the fluid distribution builds into it an assumption that a lot of your fluid is going to be down in your lower limbs because of gravity, and your lower limbs have a lot of veins, which are very floppy and good places to sequester extra fluid that you don't need, extra blood you don't need. And in weightlessness, that fluid is all shifted into the upper direction, and it's-- Host: Oh. John Charles: There's not a lot of extra venous volume in the upper part of the body, and so the body says, aha, I've got a, I've got too much fluid onboard. I know what to do in a case like this. Decrease thirst, increase urination, you know, eliminate fluid elsewhere, shift it into other parts of the body, which has the effect of causing your body to lose blood volume over the course of the first few weeks in spaceflight. Host: That was going to be my question. John Charles: Yeah. Host: Where does that liter go? Okay. John Charles: Liter goes out, becomes tomorrow's coffee. Host: Yeah. [laughs] John Charles: You remember the old analogy about the water recycling system. Host: That's right. John Charles: So that fluid volume is appropriate for your time in weightlessness. And again, one of those tricks that you pull on your body is that you come back to the Earth after your time in weightlessness and suddenly that fluid drains back down to the lower part of the body. And then, suddenly, the upper part of the body is volume deprived, and that's when you may feel a little bit light headed, a little bit weak. Astronauts wear compression garments in the lower body -- in the legs, especially -- to squeeze to make sure the fluid stays up in the upper part of the body and not pooling in the lower part of the body. Shane was wearing those compression garments that are called Cantaver [phonetic] garments. That's the Russian name for Cantaver. [laughs] And it-- Host: Nice translation. John Charles: Yeah. I'm good at that. But that, those are very effective techniques, and we are, we have other capabilities like that as well. But the point is during, while he wasn't being sensitive to emotion by not turning his head very much, he was also, his body was functioning to keep the blood flowing to the upper part of his body through his brain so he could continue to function normally. That's all part of the early re-adaptation process as well. Host: That's right. John Charles: So the vestibular system is quick responding. The cardiovascular system is slightly slower. Along the way, you lose muscle mass because you're not hefting your body mass around, and they have to rebuild that when you come back. And then, out there at the, sort of the tail end is your skeleton. What we haven't talked about before, yet, though, are things like your radiation tolerance, or radiation exposure, I should say. Host: That's right. John Charles: That doesn't plateau. That doesn't decrease. That doesn't accommodate because you keep getting exposed to radiation, and radiation has a cumulative effect. The more you-- Host: As long as you're in space-- John Charles: As long as you're in spaceflight. So that's an ongoing issue, and that's something we will have to deal with going to Mars because you're exposed to even more radiation when you leave Earth's magnetic field and are-- Host: Right. John Charles: Exposed to the deep-space radiation. And then, the other aspects, of course, are the psychological aspects of spaceflight. And if you think what I've described to you before is complicated, you ain't seen nothing yet because the psychology [laughs] is one of the most self-regulating and self-protecting let's call it organ system that we have until it's not anymore. And so you adapt, you accommodate, you adjust. All those A words are the way that your [laughs] psychological aspects function in normal, everyday life and especially in spaceflight. Host: Yeah. John Charles: But you're exposed to stresses that are the most unique that anybody's ever been exposed to in spaceflight. And if we're talking about a Mars mission, we're talking about let's call it two and a half years just you and three other people face to face in the volume of a couple of Space Station modules maybe with the pressure and the eyes of the world on you to make sure you, to wonder if you succeed. So there's no pressure, obviously. And the, nobody can help you when you're on your way to Mars. At least, they can't help you immediately. There's going to be, when you get to Mars, you may be eight minutes away from Earth by radio. Host: Right. John Charles: At the midpoint of your stay on Mars, you might be 40 minutes away, 20 minutes away one way by radio. Host: Yeah. John Charles: So if you have a problem and it takes longer than, it takes less time than 20 minutes to fully express itself, and you don't know what you're doing, then you've got a big problem. Host: That was one thing Shane said. He said, five minute, he landed. Five minutes, and everyone was, you know, taking him out of the capsule. John Charles: That's right. Host: And you're right. You're not going to have any-- John Charles: That's right. Host: Not only no help, but it's going to be a while until actually someone talks to you. John Charles: I like to paint a picture for people, and that is if you're the first person on Mars, you're climbing down the ladder, and you stumble and fall face first into the Mars dust, [laughs] the bad news is that everybody on Earth will see it because they're all going to be watching the live stream. Host: Of course. John Charles: But the good news is it'll be 20 minutes before they see it. [laughs] So you've got a few minutes of relief before you have to explain to the entire universe how you stumbled your, for your first step on Mars. Host: [laughs] That would be pretty cool if that was the actual video of-- John Charles: Yeah. Host: The first person stepping on Mars. [laughs] So obviously, you know, you have to be thinking about, you know, this is, obviously, you are thinking about, you know, this is kind of what that's going to look like if someone's going to land on Mars. You know, what are we doing to sort of get them ready for that? One of the things I think, I'm pretty sure Shane mentioned was they sat him in the seat and, for a while, and then they took him right to a tent and started doing some field tests on him. John Charles: Yes, they're, exactly, and that's exactly what we called it. We call it the field test. It is, it's one of our Human Research Program investigations. It's a joint investigation by the U.S. and the Russians. The U.S. and Russian investigators Millard Reschke and Inessa Kozlovskaya are very longtime investigators, and they both have been anxious to do this kind of research on the adjustments of the sensorimotor system and the neurovestibular system to gravity after a long-duration spaceflight. We started doing this a few years ago. Chris Cassidy I think was the, actually the first guy to do it on his Soyuz landing. Host: Oh. John Charles: And we've been doing it pretty consistently since then to try and build up a database of responses so we know what an average, and, you know, what the statistical mean is, and what the variation is. Host: Nice sample size. John Charles: Nice sample size. Host: Right. John Charles: And it's also very dramatic, and it's also, it's a, an important set of things to do. But what it does briefly is after they're extracted from their Soyuz -- and you heard Shane talk about how they got out of the Soyuz with a lot of assistance. Nobody going to help you on Mars. Your vehicle has to be designed appropriately for you to get out on your own. Then, they set him in a chaise lounge for a little bit and have a brief public affairs event there on the steps of Kazakhstan, and that's a good chance for them to catch their breath. And then, they're carried, not walked, but they're carried into the medical tent. And inside the medical tent, in privacy because of human research concerns-- Host: Right, makes sense. John Charles: They are unsuited -- that is, their space suits are taken off -- and then, then if they volunteered for this investigation, they go through a stylized set of motions. And they start off with being seated in a chair and just being asked to stand upright and stand quietly for 30 seconds or so. Host: And that must be hard, though, right? John Charles: That's a substantial stress, a substantial [inaudible]. Host: Yeah. John Charles: Sonny Carter back on STS-33 I think it was said -- and that was after a five-day flight -- said the hardest thing he had to do on his spaceflight was stand up for the first time after a spaceflight out of the chair in the shuttle. Host: Wow. John Charles: So that was after just a few days. Now, this is after six months or so of weightlessness. Host: Right. John Charles: So that's the stress. We're watching their blood pressure, their heart rate, as well as their balance. And then, sort of to add insult to injury, one of the early things we do then is to lay them on the floor in the face down, in a prone position, and then ask them to stand up again. And it's, to mimic, it's called recovery from a fall. So the idea is that they have stumbled on Mars or they've stumbled on the Earth and they find themselves face down in the red dust on Mars like I've mentioned before. How long does it take to get back up again? And that we can quantify how long it takes them to stand up, to go through all the complicated motions of getting up on your hands, and getting up on your knees, and then finding a way to balance yourself and get back up. That's a very integrated physiological and, or musculoskeletal activity, and it's, it can be quantified. And then, once they've got them standing up again, and I always haste to add that no astronauts are actually pushed over. They're asked to lay down gently and then stand up. Host: [laughs] That's funny because that would be very rude. John Charles: That would be another good video. [laughs] But then, we make them walk an obstacle course to see if they can do it. And the obstacle course is actually, as Shane described, walking in a straight line with your eyes closed, or with your eyes open and then with your eyes closed. And sometimes, you know, eyes closed, you veer because you're using the, your visual system is your dominant way to orient yourself in the absence of a functional vestibular system and in the absence of a fairly relaxed set of somatosensory sensors. Those are the sensors that detect pressure on the bottom of your feet and at the angles of the joints, you know -- your ankle angles, and your elbow angles, and things like that. So walking with eyes open is always a challenge. Walking with eyes closed is almost always impossible because you veer immediately left or right because you just can't orient yourself in the absence of any inputs. And the inputs you're receiving are those that your brain has decided six months ago to ignore, and inputs that it wanted us, wanted to keep you've now deprived yourself of because your eyes are closed. So there's a little bit of a stressor there. And then, there are other things that we ask them to do as they sort of gradually move through this set of activities -- moving heavy masses back and forth as if they were unpacking a Mars lander and getting things set up on the surface of Mars, and, you know, just a bunch of generalized things like that involving motions, bending, twisting, standing still, you know, things like that. So-- Host: So how long does that usually take? John Charles: It's about 45 minutes-- Host: Wow. John Charles: In the tent, and that's only a subset. When they get back to Houston, there's a much longer set of measure, of activities they go through, and that'll be 24 hours after landing. Host: Right. John Charles: But we also test them in the airport in Karaganda, which is where the helicopter takes them after they land. Host: Right. John Charles: Or we test them in the airport either in Norway or in Scotland, depending on where the jet lands to refuel on the way-- Host: Their layover, right. John Charles: On the way back. Their layover. Host: Yeah. John Charles: So that gives us, you know, minutes, and hours, and then a day of adaptation. And then, we watch them for several days post flight up to potentially even several weeks post flight to track their full recovery back to normal. And this is specifically to quantify the responses, the re-accommodation and re-adaptation back to gravity so engineers can design habitats and landers for Mars missions, and they'll know what capabilities astronauts will have to design around. Host: Right. John Charles: Now, smart fellow that you are, you're going to say, but John, you already said that Mars has only one-third of a g, and here we are making them do all this stuff at one g. Host: Again, you're reading my mind. [laughs] John Charles: We've worked together so much, I can anticipate your, almost your next thought. But the deal is, yes, we are making them do it at one g when normally on Mars they'd be at one-third of a g. All we've got is one g, and this is the closest we can get to that situation, so we have to-- Host: Right. John Charles: Make the appropriate adjustments, if we think it's necessary, to compensate for the fractional gravity. But right now, in answer to your next question, we don't have any information on what fractional gravity does. And so we just have to assume that it will be as unpleasant, uncomfortable, difficult as one g is. And then, once we get experience at fractional gravity, like if we go to the Moon and get one-sixth of a g experience or if we land on Mars, and do it a few times, and say, you know what? That was not as hard as we said it was going to be. It's going to be easier here at one-third of a g. We can make the appropriate adjustments. Host: Right. There's a lot deeper of a story here, I can tell. John Charles: Yeah. [laughs] Host: There's a lot of different directions we can go, but I'm going to ask one more question, and then we're going to let you go. So, you know, you have all these field tests, and you're kind of preparing for what, you know, what we have to do in order to make a Mars mission work. So I do have one, like, theoretical question for you: In a perfect world, if you were to land on Mars, what would you want that to look like? I'm guessing, I mean, can it be as simple as they land on Mars and they're good? They get out of the capsule. Or is there, you know, is there other things that we are going to have to sacrifice based on the knowledge we have now to make that as easy as possible? John Charles: I think the answer is going to be yes and yes. Host: Awesome. John Charles: I think astronauts come in varieties just like other people do, and some people will have problems accommodating, adjusting, adapting, and others will not. Some folks are going to be able to land on Mars, and bounce right up, and feel like they want to go to work. We're probably going to insist that the landing vehicle be able to accommodate them for a couple of days. Host: I see. John Charles: Because we don't want to bet that they're all going to be perfect, they're all going to be bulletproof. And by perfect, I mean in this particular regard. Because they're all going to have, they're all going to be perfect in some way. It's not just, you know, the, not just the '70's kids. [laughs] We're all perfect in some way, but they're all not going to be perfect at adjusting to Mars. There's going to be some that are slower, and some that are faster, and some that are sort of run of the mill. We have to accommodate all of them because you can't leave the guy behind that's not feeling the best, then go and start exploring Mars. Host: Right. John Charles: So the goal is to make the landing vehicle as lightweight as possible. Previous discussion about mass, and power, and volume. Host: Right. John Charles: Which means minimize the amount of mass that you dedicate to life support systems. You don't want to build a two-week life support system into the lander if you're only going to use it for a couple of days, then you're going to feel good enough to go out and then traipse across the desert to the habitat that's waiting for you with all the life support you can use inside of it. Host: Right. John Charles: But you don't want to carry excess life support, but you don't want to carry too little life support in case it turns out to be, just by the luck of the draw, you've got four people that are going to have a tough time readjusting, and-- Host: Yeah. John Charles: They don't want to get, put their space suits on and stumble across Mars face down into the dust, you know. Things like that. Host: Yeah [inaudible]. John Charles: So what I would like to see the landing on Mars look like is that the entire crew feels good, and it was the luck of the draw that we got four people that just turned out to feel good this time. They're, they understand the importance of the design of the habitat, of the lander, so they take their time getting suited up and making the excursion out. Maybe they, maybe we're clever on the first landing and we don't make them actually walk very much at all. We make them have a radio-controlled rover that deploys from the habitat, and comes over, and is waiting out their front door on the lander. And they get into that, and they drive off to the habitat, and they get in, and set up housekeeping instead of actually having to stress themselves for the first time in a six- or eight-month period of time after they transited to Mars. Host: That's a cool concept. Nice. John Charles: So, you know-- Host: Valet service. John Charles: Yeah, valet service. [laughs] And it might be even, may be even a self-driving car, so maybe Uber or-- Host: Yeah. [laughs] John Charles: Google's going to have something to say about it. Host: That's right. John Charles: And then, they gradually become accustomed to their environment on Mars so they can go to work on Mars. The habitat will have the gym, whatever it looks like, as well as the food, and the fresh water, and the fresh air. But the point of all this is not to cater to the astronauts. The goal is to make sure that the astronauts are, as I like to say, in the best condition of their lives when they land so they minimize the time they spend readapting-- Host: Right. John Charles: Because the Mars missions will be the most expensive undertakings humanity's ever embarked upon. Host: Sure. John Charles: And if we want to have a second, and a third, and a fourth, and a fifth one, the first one had better be productive. And the way to be productive is to be in good condition so you can get to work as quickly as possible, allowing for the accommodation time of a few days, or a week, or so, and then get to work, and show us why we sent you to Mars, and make those Nobel Prize winning discoveries on Mars so that Congress, and the parliaments of all the partner agencies, and everybody, all the taxpayers, think, yeah, that was a good thing. We want to do that some more. [laughs] We'll have more Mars missions and build up the flow to Mars and the infrastructure for Mars. So it's, it sounds like I'm altruistic, but Gary, you know me well enough to know that [laughs] I'm not altruistic. I want the astronauts to be in great condition when they land on Mars not just for themselves but for us too because if we have hopes of becoming a multi-planet society, our first emissaries to other planets will have to be, will have to demonstrate how productive we can be in other planets, and that's really the goal here. Host: John, I want you to lead the charge and lead us [laughs] all the way to Mars. John Charles: I'm not going to Mars, then. Host: You'll be the guy landing. [laughs] John Charles: I want to stay at home and cheer them on. Host: [laughs] Well, this was awesome. Thanks for coming on the show and talking about, you know, really analyzing what Shane was feeling and what, why we are doing what we're doing, you know, obviously for later missions and landing on Mars. So obviously, you know, there's something that, there's some stuff that Dr. Charles was not able to address today, so for those listening, if you want to know more or you have a suggestion on what we need to talk about, stay tuned until after the music to learn on where and how you can submit some ideas. So John, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. John Charles: Delighted. Thank you [inaudible]. Host: Glad to have you, and we'll probably have to have you again. John Charles: Okay. [ Laughs ] [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So I hope you enjoyed our talk with Dr. John Charles and Astronaut Shane Kimbrough. If you want to learn more about kind of all the things that specifically Dr. Charles talked about, there's, we actually have a website for that, per usual -- nasa.gov/hrp. This is the website for the Human Research Program, and you can learn about everything that they're studying there. All of these things that Dr. Charles was talking about -- the human body, bone density, even we have some stuff about the twin study that happened just actually a couple years ago now when Scott Kelly launched in 2015. So you can find all that information there. A lot of the research that's done and especially with Shane Kimbrough on the International Space Station was done up there on that orbiting complex. You can go to nasa.gov/iss to learn about the latest updates on the International Space Station -- all the latest blogs and scientific findings. We also have a lot of cool pictures that we like to put up on that website. On social media, we're very active. Facebook is the International Space Station. That's their Facebook page. On Twitter, we're @space, underscore, station. And on Instagram, it's @iss. If you want to submit an idea or you have a question about something that we talked about on the podcast, just use that hashtag #asknasa on your favorite platform. Doesn't matter. We'll check them all. And we'll make sure that we address it on one of the next podcasts that we do. And maybe we even will make a whole podcast out of, episode out of it. So this podcast was recorded on April 19th thanks to John Stoll and Eric Sparamin [phonetic] for helping to produce the show. Thanks again to Dr. John Charles and Shane Kimbrough for coming on the show. See you in 6.79 sols. Get it because the Mars? Okay. See you next time.

Ep32_African American History Month

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-02-16

>> Houston, We Have A Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 32, African American History Month. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your co-host today, along with Kai Harris, the Lead Budget Analyst for Propulsion and Power Engineering Division, and the chair of the African American Employee Resource Group. Kai, thanks for coming on! >> Hey, Gary! Glad to be here! >> So we have these groups here at the center called, Employee Resource Groups, and Kai here is the Chair of the African American Employee Resource Group, so, we teamed up to do a special episode for African American History Month where we'll be bringing in four guests that specialize in different areas across the center to do four unique segments. >> That's right! We're very proud of our employee resource group, and we have folks with the right range of skills. Today, we have guests involved in life support systems, an Orion flight controller, robotics engineering, and human health and performance. >> Awesome! I'm excited that we can bring everyone together for this episode. So this is pretty cool, because you'll see, all in one episode, how many things are going on at the same time. So, with no further delay, let's go lightspeed and jump right ahead to talk with our guests from across the center for African American History Month. Enjoy! [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] Alright, Kai, thanks for helping me open up this episode, but before we go to our first guest, I kind of wanted to set some context about ERGs, these employer resource groups. So, you can kind of start off by talking about, what is an employee resource group here at the Johnson Space Center, and then about yours, the African American Employee Resource Group. >> So the mission of the AAERG is to serve JSC as a catalyst to strengthen JSC recruitment, onboarding, retention, engagement, and development of African Americans at JSC. That's contributing to the maximum inclusion and innovation of the JSC workforce, and enhancing success of the NASA mission and vision. We do a lot of outreach events through the community. We feel it's important to have a focus on the community, let them know that there are people out there at JSC who look like them who work here, kind of give them hope that they can also work here. We also promote STEM a lot. We bring in speakers and we focus a lot on developing our employees. We have several training sessions throughout the year, we have speakers come in, and it's all about helping to make JSC an even better place to work. >> Awesome! Alright, well, I'm excited to kind of kick this off. So, alright, Kai, who is going to be our first guest today? >> First is Antya [phonetic] Chambers. She's the Thermal and Humidity Control Subsystem Manager of the ISS in the Life Support Systems branch. She started here as a co-op and has worked on a lot of different projects in her time here. >> Alright, well, producer Alex, let's play the wormhole sound effect and get right into that talk. [ Sound Effects ] Okay, so -- so you started your journey here as a co-op, right? >> I did! I started -- basically, I got into -- so I went to the University of Texas at Austin, where I pursued a degree in -- in aerospace engineering, and -- but prior to that, when I was in high school, I participated in the Texas Aerospace Scholars Program. I believe they've updated it, since then, the name of it. >> Yeah, I think it's NCOS [phonetic] now, it's national community colleges that they bring -- they bring community college students from all over the nation, I think, now, yeah. >> Wow! That's awesome! No, they -- I remember it was advertised in my high school, hey, we're -- NASA's looking for high school students to come to NASA and have mentor -- NASA engineer mentors and I was -- I hopped right on it and I went to NASA for about a week. We had like a series of assignments up until that point, and spent a week at NASA and learned about the co-op program, and how it was like one of the primary hiring grounds for -- for students or for full-time employees, and I was sold. So, when I -- the very, very, very [Gary laughing] first career fair at University of Texas, I was a freshman, and the NASA booth was the booth that I went to first. Handed me resume, and that following year, they were actually hiring sophomore-level [laughing] students. I interviewed and was offered a co-op at NASA. So I was really excited! >> Alright! And the co-op is -- it's a rotational program, right? So you go multiple times? >> Yeah, they -- it -- it was called, when -- back in my day, the cooperative education program. I believe it's now called Pathways. >> Yes. >> The Pathways Intern Program. >> Yes. >> But it's still the same thing. Basically, you would go to NASA for a semester or a quarter, depending on the school that you go to, and kind of rotate between NASA and your school until graduation. And, on average, it kind of extends the graduation date for about -- by about a year. >> Okay. >> Which is well worth it by the way! [Laughter] Any type of on the job experience that you can get, especially in engineering, to figure out is this really, really what you want to do, the better. >> Yeah, I was Pathways too, and... >> Awesome! >> Yeah! So I -- I came in, but I was a non-technical major, so I did the two summers, one semester rotation, and so I was delayed by just a semester, but, again, totally worth it, because -- because it's... >> And look where you are! >> Here I am! Here I am talking to super cool people like you! So, you're -- so you were a co-op going on as a -- was it engineering? You have an engineering background? >> Yes, yep. I was an aerospace engineer, and so I believe it was my sophomore year I -- I entered into, and the first group that they put me in was the pyrotechnics area, and... >> Playing with fire! >> That team is amazing! And it was a great introduction to what NASA was. I remember I, when I first got there, I'm like, oh, Dr. so and so, Dr. so and so, because I thought everybody at NASA had to have a PhD, and then they like let it ride for maybe a day, because [Gary laughing] they thought it was funny, and then they're like, well... >> Yeah, yeah, I'm a doctor, yeah. >> Right! They're like, no, no, no, not everybody at NASA are doctors, and so -- and then I kind of learned about how diverse the workforce is, not only from an engineering standpoint, but in the levels of education standpoint, and how they came together as a team. >> Definitely. So is that where you transitioned into? Were you -- did you transition to propulsion? Or did you kind of go into something else when you went full-time? >> Oh, so -- so pyros, so what I did, so I did pyrotechnics for my first tour, and then my second tour was in the trajectory operations, and it was then the mission operations director, and now it's, I believe, the flight operations director... >> A lot of changes. >> Yeah, they change. And then the third co-op tour was spent in aircraft operations director, which I believe has also changed now. And so I was looking at more atmospheric flight, and then the final one was in the systems test branch in my current division, which is the crew and thermal systems division. And so -- and we, the division, kind of focused on life support systems and life support for the astronauts and support for the crew. And so, after I did my final tour in the crew and the thermal system division, I was given a job offer, once I returned to school, and now the rest is history, I spent pretty much my whole career in the same division, but I switched branches within there, so. >> I see. >> I went to the extravehicular activity tools, I went and I worked on the tools for Hubble Space Telescope, and then I moved to RCC plug repair, reinforced carbon carbon, which is the material that the -- the tiles are made -- are -- well, the shuttle is now retired, but the leading edge of the wing of the shuttle and repair tools for that. And then I moved to spacesuits, and then, right now, I'm in life support systems. So, environmental control life support systems. >> See, now you're just bragging! Because [Antya laughing] you're all over the place! So you started with pyrotechnics, then you got trajectory, then you're doing airplanes, then you're doing life support systems, and then you're making tools for -- for Hubble. This is crazy! That's the most insane resume I've ever seen! But going -- I wanted to kind of skip around to that part where you were talking about tools for Hubble. >> Sure! >> You actually designed the -- because -- because, you know, Hubble wasn't designed to be serviced, but it -- but then you had to figure it out, right? Because of the -- the astigmatism, so -- so what tools were you making? What were you working on? >> So, it was interesting with Hubble. How the project -- when it -- it was initially introduced to me, I was like, oh my gosh, these are old tools, because these tools were actually a set of tools that were already used for Hubble throughout multiple service missions, and so some of those tools were older than I was. And they actually had handwritten drawings [laughter], so they weren't even -- they weren't even computer-generated drawings, and so -- so the idea is that you would get these sets of tools and get them ready for the next servicing mission. There were, however, some tools, like the manipulator foot restraint, which required a lot more additional engineering, a lot more support, and -- and so that became a bigger project than was anticipated, and it's actually featured in the Smithsonian right now if anybody wants to go and see it. >> What? [Antya laughing] >> After a -- yeah, after the final servicing mission with the STS 125, they retired most of the Hubble tools and some of them were submitted to the Smithsonian, so. >> Right, because they had to be specially-designed for that, right? >> Exactly. >> Because it was such a unique sort of thing, and this -- you had to create, what was it, it was a foot restraint, a special foot restraint? >> Yeah, so what the foot restraint, it's -- it allows the crew member -- so the robotic arm of the space shuttle would grab the foot restraint, the astronaut would then lock themselves into place, and then the arm operator inside the space shuttle would pretty much put the astronaut on the end of the foot restraint, in the location that they needed to work. And we ran into quite a few problems with the MFR, trying to get it prepped for this flight, from everything. It's -- it's a -- it was probably a great experience in showing how hardware ages, especially space hardware. And then all of the updates that you're going to have to do in order to get it ready for flight, and so, we had -- we failed thermal testing, we failed vibe testing, we failed all sorts of testing, and we had to do fault tree investigations, and we finally got the final product so that we could use it for Hubble. >> Wow! Alright, and then it -- and then it worked, right? >> It worked great! >> It did what it needed to do, and the astronauts were able to go out and fix Hubble and get those -- some of those images that we see now for the past however many years, incredible! >> Yeah, it was a -- it was a very humbling experience, because they mentioned that if the MFR wasn't available, they would have lost hours of crew time, and ability to do as much of the servicing as they would have -- would have been able to do otherwise. >> Wow! >> No pressure! >> Yeah [Antya laughing], right? >> But it was great because we got a lot of chance to work with a lot of different centers, Kennedy Space Center for the launch then prep and stowing it on the space shuttle, and then, of course, Goddard Space Flight Center which was the lead for the actual Hubble mission. So it was -- it was really great across center work, great teams that were involved there. >> Wow, what an experience! So cool. But then you -- you said most of your career has been in, is it life support systems? Is that -- is that kind of what you're focusing on? >> So I am in life support systems right now. The division that I'm in, the crew and thermal systems division, they have branches and so the first branch, when I was a co-op, I did the systems test branch, which the -- the vacuum chambers that are very popular, the -- I think it's one of the largest ones in the world are chamber A where we actually tested Apollo, and then when I was hired on full-time, I worked in the EVA tools and equipment branch, which is where the Hubble tools fell, and then I worked into the space -- rotated into the spacesuit branch where I -- I worked a lot with the space, the new spacesuit, or the spacesuit interface for the Const -- the Constellation program, which is now Orion, the Orion project. And then, from there, I rotated into life support systems, which is where I currently am. >> Okay, and you have some cool projects that you've done there, right? >> Yes! >> One of the -- one of the more important ones is the water recycling system on -- on the International Space Station, right? >> Yeah, they have -- so water is very heavy and very expensive to launch. We do launch it, still, but one of the goals of the Space Station too is to try to develop, you know, closed loop life support systems, which are especially useful for long-term missions that are out of low-earth orbit. And so, one of the things that we do is we try to recover water from urine, which is -- a lot of people are like, oh my god, urine! [Gary laughing] But -- but it's actually interesting. The water that we reclaim from urine is actually cleaner than probably any water that anybody on the ground will ever drink, and so, I have not tried it, but we don't [laughter] get any complaints that I know of from the crew, I guess. But -- but at the time, what we were looking at, we were looking at 75 percent water recovery. We -- our target was about 85 percent water recovery, but the problem is is that the more water you reclaim out of urine, there's salts that are leftover, and so those salts can create precipitation when mixed with our pretreatment solution. We pretreat the urine. One, it helps stabilize the urine, and also so that we can actually process it, but the problem is is that the pretreatment we were using at the time was sulfate-based, and it would inter -- it would form a precipitate in the urine that was not ideal and what it would do is clog up our systems, and so, what we had to do then was we decided to take kind of the sulfate aspect out of it and make it a phosphate-base solution. And so -- so we changed the pretreat, which was still a relatively strong acid, not quite as strong as sulfate, so we had to make it a little bit stronger, so that we can increase our water recovery from the kind of 72/74 percent water recovery to about 85 to close to actually 90 percent water recovery. >> Wow! >> And so it's -- we are very, very proud of that, so just think that, you know, of the urine you're looking at, if you like look at urine, 85 percent of that can be reclaimed as water and recycled, and the crew can -- can drink it, they can do whatever they need to do that's water-related on station. >> The cleanest water that you'd never try! [Laughter] >> That I would never try! But it's funny, some of the engineers have, like, you know, water bottles on their desks saying, oh, this is so and so's urine! It's just...[Gary groaning]. But it's water! But it's -- it's -- but it's a great team, it's great to see how kind of desensitized everybody gets to talking about urine or, really, anything related to the human body, we -- we -- it becomes, like, oh, well, you know, how do we do this? How do we treat skin cells? How do we treat condensate? How do we treat, you know, it's like -- it becomes like, how do we integrate better the human body and everything that it needs, how can we make that more of a closed-loop system relative to the spacecraft it inhabits, and so, it's quite a challenge, and, as a result, we have a lot of spinoffs as a result that we try to take -- that we try to distribute to the -- the general populous, I guess. >> That's right. We always brag about one of the technologies in the water recycling system has been brought down and used in third world countries to kind of help recycle some of the water or, I guess, treat some of the water so -- so it's drinkable, it's potable. >> Yeah, it's -- it's the goal. Ours is a little more toxic, but we are looking at non-toxic forms in order to try to implement on a mass scale too. So, yeah, we're... >> Alright! >> Water reclamation is definitely something that we're interested, you know, of course on this planet, and it's actually another example of in the pursuit of trying to do closed-loop life support on space station or any NASA endeavor, we get these kind of spin-off technologies that actually bring the rest of the world with us. >> Oh, fantastic! [Antya laughing] So cool. And that's the -- so you kind of mentioned it, and I wanted to touch on briefly, is the ultimate goal is -- is closed loop, and that means that it's -- it's all feeding itself, the water, the air, everything is sort of being recycled and I guess you can say the -- the goal was perfection, is to do it in a way that where you don't need to resupply anything, it's just kind of feeding on itself. >> Yeah, limited waste is always -- always our goal. Now, there are some missions that it would make more sense having open-looped systems, just because they're shorter, but for -- if we're looking at deep exploration, the more closed-loop and less waste that we have, the less that we have to bring with us, the better. And so, that's always -- always one of the goals, the major goals. >> Yes. Because resupplying that ship that's far, far away is going to be pretty difficult. >> Right! It's not like going to the local grocery store and saying, oh, well, [laughter] let's just get some more water or get some more food. >> Yeah. >> How do we make it so that we're less dependent on outside resources? >> Exactly. So I kind of wanted to end with the project that you're working on now, and that's ammonia emergency response? Is that right? >> Yes, that's correct. I am currently -- so we have, on space station, an emergency scenario, we use ammonia as a coolant on space station, and -- and the emergency scenario, there's a possibility that some of that ammonia could leak inside space station, and ammonia is very, very toxic to humans. And, you know, it's 3,500 parts per million concentration of ammonia would lead to one breath to death, and at much lower concentrations, you can smell it, it would start degrading. It's -- you're -- you can't see very well. Ammonia loves water, and so, and we're -- we have a lot of things [laughing]. >> We're mostly water. >> Right. And so, and it also has an adverse effect on our skin at some of these concentrations too. And so, as a result, my team helped develop the ammonia emergency response, how should the crew respond to this emergency event? And the -- the emergency stakeholder community, we have a large community that determined that we do need a way that we can scrub the ammonia from the air, as well as provide an alternate air source or air supply to protect their lungs and their eyes, in this case, as they're trying to escape from space station. And so how the scenario would go is that you would have an ammonia alarm on station, the crew would don a -- it's a quick don mask, or QDMA, that has a pure O2 source, but it's only for about 7 and a half to 15 minutes. So they're going to have to switch eventually. >> Okay. >> What they do is they -- they close their hatches as they go to isolate their escape vehicle. They close the hatch, and this is the commercial crew vehicle -- vehicles that we're talking about, and you close the hatches, the ammonia scrubber, which is going to be already in there, would be turned on, it would clean that environment. The crew would have to switch to a -- a secondary source, which is going to be breathing air, because we're worried about flammability issues. So you're looking at maybe 23 to 24 percent O2 instead of 100 percent that they're original source was. And so, basically, they would have to wait about 30 minutes, is the target. 30 minutes or less to completely scrub that environment, and once the environment is clean, they can get off of their mask and they can get prepared to undock from station and return home. >> Alright! >> And so that's the whole [laughing] scenario. >> So your job is to work on the whole scenario, or just the quick don mask, or? >> So, initially, I developed the -- the scenario, pulled in all of the stakeholders, and it's a rather large community. We looked at operations, we looked at our different providers, we looked at safety, the flight doctors, everybody came together and pulled together, I pulled together that story, and from there, we were granted funding in order to build the ammonia scrubber, which I'm the project manager of right now, and then a technical type manager on the NASA side for the CCV emergency breathing air supplier, CEBA, [phonetic] which is the secondary source that the crew uses in the vehicle. >> Alright! Alright, so you oversee a lot. [Laughter] Wow! >> And so it's -- it's a lot of integration, but I'll tell you, the -- the teams are impressive, everybody's goal is the same, they want the crew to be safe and return home, and everybody's motivated to that end. So it's -- it's -- it's great to see a plan come together. >> Yeah, absolutely! Wow! What an amazing scenario! Hey, Antya, thank you so much for coming on and kind of sharing your experience. So cool! What an amazing career! Thank you so much for coming on! >> Thank you! Thank you for having me, I really enjoyed it. >> Of course! [ Sound Effects ] Alright, that was awesome! Talking with Antya, she kind of made me feel...like I needed to improve my resume a little bit [laughing]. Alright, so, Kai, who's next? >> Next is Gavin Guy. He's a Robotic Engineers working in the Software, Robotics, and Simulation Division. He started working at JSC after getting his BS in electrical engineering from the University of Houston, go Cougs, and has now been full-time at JSC for a little over three and a half years. >> Alright, let's -- let's go right through the wormhole to that talk. Go producer, Alex! [ Sound Effects ] Okay, so, Gavin, thanks for coming on! So you started...did you start as a co-op or an intern? >> I started as a co-op in the fall of 2011. That sounds right. >> Alright, cool! So, another co-op that we have here. We just talked to Antya, and she's -- she was also a co-op, me here -- me too, so, great program! Definitely gets you in the door! [Laughter] So, do you do all of your rotations in engineering? >> I did not. My first rotation was in the spacecraft software engineering branch, which is in the same division I am in now, but a different branch. And then my second one was in FOD, where I worked with the Spartans. And then my final one is -- was in the ER5, which is my current branch, the dynamic systems test branch. >> Okay, so a little bit of the same division, but then you kind of dabbled in flight control for a little bit, right, with FOD as a Spartan, and they do the thermal systems, right? >> They did. At the time, the external thermal, and the power systems for ISS. >> Alright, cool! >> I might be wrong on that. >> But now you're in -- and that's our -- that's our [inaudible] code, I guess, is ER5, and that means engineering and then for the robotics, what is it, software robotics and simulation division? Is that what it is? >> Yes. [Gary laughing] Software robotics and simulation division, yes. >> Okay, so you kind of work with some of the robotic -- some robotics for space station, primarily, right? >> I -- so my group is robotic test systems, and they support either [pause] tool development, system, like a payload development, or station testing analysis. So, for instance, if something like one of the tools, like a robot, micro [inaudible] tool had some issues, or someone -- some unknown -- things that weren't fully understood, we did some analysis on that using our engineering unit and our test systems to understand and analyze the situation and try to get some feedback as to what they could be and best ways to move forward. >> Okay. Cool. So one of the -- one of the pieces of equipment, and this is very visual, because you're doing this -- all of this in a lot of the work in building 9, right? And building 9 is our sort of playground, I guess you could say [Gavin laughing]? You've got the mockups of the International Space Shuttle, you got mockups of the Orion, but then you have this whole robotics side where you have all of these, you know, all these robotic elements that you've built over time, but then also places to test some things, and one of them is ARGOS, right? >> Correct. >> So what's -- what's ARGOS? >> ARGOS is our microgravity simulator, that stands for Active Response Gravity Offload System. It's easiest visualized as an overhead crane system for people, but it's -- it's fully robotic, has a pretty good control system. It has a vertical and a horizontal component, and the vertical component is track -- has inline fore sensors [phonetic] which keeps track of the payload attached to it and can simulate either the martian or lunar gravity, or different microgravity situations, and we've used it for testing things like Robonaut, which is on International Space Station. They have an engineering unit, and they test out some of their ISS operations in ARGOS. We've done suit evaluation testing, just understanding the suit requirements in a dynamic gravity offloading test setup. And we've also -- we've supported things like rovers, like we have our Resource Prospect Rover here at JSC that we're working on, which is supposed to be a rover that does drilling operations sometime in the future. >> Alright! So, you put it on this -- on this system, this ARGOS, and, you know, you say there's a payload that goes in it, and that is -- that is the thing that you're testing, whether it's a person in a suit or the robot or whatever, and then it can kind of simulate whatever gravity you want to program into it, so microgravity or lunar gravity, martial gravity, that kind of thing, right? >> Exactly. >> Okay. So what are some of the tests that you've been kind of setting up? I'm sure it's like this big crane system, but then you kind of have this -- this floor where you can set up a test or -- or practice something. So, what's some of the things you've been running? >> So lately, they've been doing things related to our alpha magnetic spectrometer. >> Okay. >> Which is AMS for short. It's -- currently, they need to do some EVAs to repair some things on the deployed system, and they've been testing out their -- their, essentially their steps, right? So it's better to understand those kinds of things on the ground where things are easy to -- to say, oops, we didn't plan for that. So, understanding that if you're coming into something in a -- in a gravity offloading scenario, these are the things we're going to try to do and with our suits, the specific suits we're using for EVAs, these are our limitations for this specific task, expect this when you're doing it, and they can kind of practice that here on the ground and understand it better, before they send tools or -- or do the procedures that they'll do on the day of the EVA. >> That's right, okay, so you kind of set up where the alpha magnetic spectrometer is on the station and kind of give, here's going to be the lay of the land when you actually do the spacewalk, and then you kind of run through your procedures to say, okay, I'm going to grab onto this handrail and fix this element in this position. >> Right. >> And then if that doesn't work, okay, maybe we should switch the procedures to do maybe a little bit of that? >> Right. So it gives the -- the team that's developing the procedures and the tools and the -- the supporting that EVA effort [phonetic] test system to really understand what's going on and the scope of -- of that work. >> So it's pretty collaborative then. You guys are working with the extravehicular office, right? You're working with some of those guys who are developing the procedures and all doing this test together? >> Right. So, I think the main people is EC? I don't really... >> Another engineering branch? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So there's also EVA involved indirectly, I'm sure, and even directly maybe, but it's -- it's a pretty big -- they learn a lot from doing these kind of things. >> Cool! Is there a lot of changes that go with ARGOS? Are you kind of reprogramming it or -- or adding new features to it? Is it kind of an evergoing project or is it this -- is it this test bed that you use and it's pretty good and runs well on its own? >> We go through different phases, right? So, currently we're in a pretty -- we're in an operational phase where we're mostly supporting test -- test scenarios, but there's definitely improvements we can make in the system. It has great capability right now, but we have ideas for -- for upgrades and things, so we always continually try to research and develop as we go. But it is fully operational, human certified test system, that we have in building 9. >> Alright! Yeah, human certified, right? Have you ever -- have you ever actually strapped yourself in and gone on a run? >> I have actually! [Gary laughing] Yeah, yeah, fairly recently. >> Is it -- is it different? So you've actually kind of felt this simulated micro -- was it microgravity, or did you do another type of...? >> I did microgravity, yeah, and horizontal configuration. >> Okay. How was it? >> It was great! It was -- it was a great experience, for sure. So, you know, I -- I simulated going across ISS using the handrails, and kind of, you know what that's like, and, you know, so it was -- it was awesome! It was a great experience, I was free floating, you know? Like able to push off with a single finger and -- and just feel like I float, which is -- which is nice. >> Wow! Were you fully suited up or were you kind of? >> I didn't do the -- the full suit. >> Okay. >> So I was doing, it's called short sleeve, it's kind of just like your -- your regular activewear type scenario. >> Oh, okay. Okay. But it's kind of cool because you said you can just poke -- you can just point -- poke, and then your whole body will float in another direction. >> Yep, and then laws of physics kind of are simulated within the system, so, you know, if there's nothing to stop you and you're offloaded in the environment, then you kind of just float away. >> [Laughing] Did you -- did your body get used to it pretty quickly or was it very new and hard to adjust? >> For me, it was fairly new and hard to adjust, so, it's -- it's -- and I think if you're not used to it, you don't use your body efficiently, and so you -- it's actually a workout, right? So it's like, oh, man, I don't know how to exist in this environment, and I'm using, I think I'm supposed to use muscles, but you prob -- there's -- the astronauts seem to be fine when they're in there, or the crew, the [inaudible] and the -- the crew -- the crew members that -- that interface with our system, but. >> Particularly the flown ones, or even just like astronaut candidates that haven't flown, but just they're just that good, I guess, I don't know. >> Yeah, at least they're better than me, is what I would say [laughter]. Yeah, so. >> Oh, I'm sure the flown astronauts probably have the -- the easiest adjustment, like, you strap them in and they're ready to go, they're moving around like -- like an ice skater on ice or something, I don't know. >> Yes, definitely. >> Yeah. Very cool! >> It was awesome getting in. I think before I came to NASA, at University of Houston, I was like, early on, like, oh, man, I want to -- I really want to work for NASA, they're working on cool, innovative things, and so I think I, like years -- like a year before I got co-op offer, I received a call from the ARGOS project manager at the time, which was Larry Dungan, and he kind of told me what it was about, and I was like, oh, that'd be awesome to work on, and now, many years down the line, I'm working on a system which is pretty cool. >> Wow! Alright! So your introduction to NASA was someone actually calling you up and saying, hey, this is some of the cool things that you can expect here. >> Yep. >> Very cool! So, what other things can you find in building 9? Are you working exclusively in building 9 on different projects or is it -- are you kind of working...? >> That's the main things I've been doing lately is in building 9. So one of the other projects I support is the Dexterous Manipulator Testbed. >> Okay. >> DMT. >> Okay. >> So, that -- that's a robotic manipulator. The -- we're going through an upgrade effort at the moment. We had a two-arm hydraulic system before, and it -- it was mainly used as a -- as a test bed, people have used it for things such as understanding things that Dexter, which is on International Space Station, our special purpose Dexterous Manipulator. >> Yeah. >> To -- to understand how payloads interface with that robotic system and kind of understanding what forces they can tolerate in terms of insertion forces for doing change out -- change out operations for batteries on station and different ORUs, and so, we're going through an upgrade process, where we're going to put in an electric arm. In the past, we've typically tested only one arm at a time, so we've kind of gone from a two-arm system to a one-arm system, and we're going to go ahead and, of course, keep our dynamic -- dynamic simulations in the loop, and so that we can understand how -- how best to send up or use or evaluate new payloads, or understand things that need to interface with the -- with the robotic manipulators really. >> Alright. >> Yeah, so, it's going to be pretty -- a pretty cool capability. >> Yeah! That's great because, you know, EVAs or spacewalks can be sometimes a little bit dangerous, you can say, I mean, it's -- it's -- there's always the chance of micrometeorite impact and you have to make sure you go through the procedures, and astronauts are very good at practicing for those to understand, you know, what's going to happen and -- and how to do the maneuvers, but if you can do the entire thing robotically, the Dexter goes on the end of the station's robotic arm and can do actual swaps. They can replace -- they can replace components of the space station without astronaut involvement, they can begin doing science while this robot it fixing the outside. >> Right. >> That'd be cool. >> Definitely. And on, like, unloading cargo vehicles as they come up and things like that, and so as -- as -- as ISS moves forward, they're going to need to try to -- to use that capability as much as they can, and so. >> I'm just thinking I just want one for my house so I can just repair different parts of the house, and I don't have to -- I could just sit and eat and watch TV, and have this Dexter doing all the work for me! >> Yeah, that'd be awesome! >> [Laughing] Alright, one thing before -- before I let you go is, one of your current projects is a -- is a -- it's called, Habitable Airlock, is that what it is? >> Yes. >> Yeah, what's that all about? >> So, Habit -- Habitable Airlock is -- is a -- it's a cabin concept that we're working on here at JSC, where typically as astronauts need to go do EVAs, they have to go through an airlock and they're typically trying to adjust their pressure environment and they have to spend several hours getting -- getting like accumulated to where they're going to go to. And so, in general, there's not a lot of functional things they can do in the airlock while they're doing that, and the goal for this -- this habitable airlock is to make it so that while they're doing the -- the getting in the process of having to prep for an EVA, they can exist and be habitable and still do like science tasks and still be functional during that time, so they can essentially just use it as they would use any other part of -- of their system. And so it's a -- it's supporting our -- our deep space gateway mission that we're -- we're exploring, and so, yeah, it's -- it's supposed to be pretty cool. >> Yeah! >> We're working on that right now. >> That's great! So it's -- it's designed for a microgravity environment rather than like I guess a plant -- a planetary airlock between -- between the habitat and the outside where you would do spacewalk, this would be kind of a test for the deep space gateway, that's pretty cool! >> Yeah. >> Alright! A lot of cool projects going on in building 9. Well, Gavin, thanks for coming on and telling us a little bit about what you do, this is awesome! >> Yep! Thanks for having me! >> Of course. >> Definitely. [ Sound Effects ] Alright, that was awesome! I felt like I -- I was riding on ARGOS while he was doing [laughing] -- talking about that -- that machine. So, Kai, who's going to be our next guest? >> Next we have Mohammed Sibu [phonetic], he's a Flight Controller for the Exploration Mission Program, Orion Space Vehicle for EM1. Mohammed also has a bachelor's in mechanical engineering from Georgia Tech University. >> Alright! Producer Alex, bring us through the wormhole! [ Sound Effects ] Okay, cool, Mohammed, thanks so much for coming on! So, you are working to become a flight controller for the Orion spacecraft, right? >> Yes. >> So, I guess, there's -- there's a lot of you, right? Is there a whole group of people training for this one mission, EM-1? >> Yeah, so we have some of the past shuttle flight controllers coming back on board and now they're transitioned to the exploration mission. And in addition to that, we have a new group of flight controller millennial generation that we all got hired around the same time. Some a few -- a little bit -- tad bit older than us, but I think we're all in the same age range, and right now we're all certifying this year, hopefully certified by the end of this year, to become flight controllers for the EM-1 mission. >> That's awesome! Alright, so we got -- I know, a couple friends of mine actually, are over doing flight controllers for International Space Station, but this is -- this is a totally different thing, right? This is for the Orion spacecraft. So what is -- what's -- what's this EM-1 mission? What are you training for? >> So the EM-1 mission is to fly Orion, I don't think -- a few people, if you are not aware of what Orion is, Orion is the next United States based vehicle that's going to fly beyond earth's orbit. Beyond -- beyond earth's low-earth orbit. And I think on the first mission, EM-1 is unmanned crew. So I think this is kind of testing Orion, and giving us a test high-level objective to see, okay, is it safe enough to put a crew on board? So I think -- so EM-1 is the first mission, is scheduled to fly in 2019, followed by EM-2, we can talk about that later, but... >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're training for multiple missions then or is it -- are you training exclusively for -- for exploration mission 1? >> So, I think, so, right now, how the transition, speaking vaguely, but the goal is to train for EM-1 and you get certified for exploration. And hopefully you get grandfathered in for the future exploration mission, because you've done a rigorous training and hopefully they won't fly too far apart. >> That's right. Well, it's -- it's kind of -- so you're training to -- it's called flight controllers, because you guys are monitoring all of these different components of the flight, of -- of exploration, mission one. So, what -- are you training for something specific or are you training to have a more broad aspect of -- of flight controlling, what's -- what's your training like? >> So I think, so it's a myriad of things if you really talk about that, because it's not only focusing on one technical aspect, of course like monitoring the vehicle, understanding what's going on as it relates to spaceflight, but also getting some of the soft -- soft skill that you don't really practice on a daily basis as being concise and talking to a lead director, making sure that you get across certain information, and you don't give the excessive details. So I think, so some more of an overall perspective from [inaudible] not only as an engineer, on a technical basis, but also as a concise interpreter to talk to people. So I think, so... >> Yeah. >> Both sides -- both sides of the ballgame, or the coin. >> Yeah, and then it's pretty translatable, so you can, I guess that would be translatable to future missions. So if you train for exploration mission 1, you'd be able to say, okay, I can do similar operations for -- for another exploration mission because you get these -- these skills. So you're training to become a flight dynamics officer, right? >> Yeah, the FIDO. >> Okay, so what's FIDO? >> So, FIDO, I think, so, the FIDO is the flight -- it's the flight position, it was really exclusive for shuttle when we were flying in the shuttle days, but our primary purpose is to monitor the vehicle from launch all the way back to entry. And by monitoring, we're monitoring, where is the vehicle's position? The velocity, making sure we're in the right velocity. The orientation of the vehicle, just make sure that it's dynamically suitable for flight, wherever we're positioned, from -- all the way from launch, even prelaunch, I think, so we verify a lot of things, like not going to go into the technical stuff, like the loads on the vehicle, to the launching of the vehicle, to even on orbit, and final reentry when we come back down. >> Okay, so, I mean, there's a lot of different things to monitor. So the FIDO is monitoring site, it sounds like more location, right? Where is it? And then you're reporting to the room, this is where it is, right? Okay, and then the velocity, make sure it's the right speed, because all of this is planned ahead of time, right? All of this is, at this point, it's going to be at this velocity, and things like that, right? >> Yeah, to a given extent. I think, plus or minus, of course, like nothing ever goes as planned. You can -- you have seen that in the flight world and the space world, of course. We protect, to a certain extent, plus or minus, we predict us to be able to discern velocity to make it there, but... >> Yeah, and just -- just talking to different flight controllers, it seems like one of the hardest aspects of becoming a flight controller is not so much everything goes according to plan, it's preparing for, if something were to go wrong, this is what you would do, right? So you are -- are you training in simulations where something goes wrong and you have to sort of... >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I think, so a lot of that we've been doing now, so, I think, so, we're not as far ahead as ISS going on, where they can have a lot of integrated sims for multiple people, so, right now, each division or each discipline are having internal sims, like we have paper sims right now, and the focus of the paper sims, it's not only on learning the technical tool that you use everyday, but making sure that communication, like the soft skills that you've talked about are appropriate, where you -- you talk to your flight or your -- the flight director, whoever you're reporting to, and you're concise, you give them what information they need to know at that time. Of course, you can talk for as long as you want to, but sometimes a lot of the information, it's not necessary. So I think, so being more concise, learning the protocol and how to talk on the flight. I think, so it's definitely a protocol to talk on the flight. And, to be honest, like, I'm sure you know about it in talking to your friends that are flight controllers now. The hardest part about being flight controllers is not learning the technical stuff, but it's really showing that you have the discipline and some of the soft skills in talking -- on talking on a loops. That that's where a lot of people just get wind out. >> Yeah. Yeah! Because if, you know, you have to make sure you're communicating! That's the whole point of mission control is to make sure everyone is talking to each other and everyone is aware of the situation and things like that. Making sure that you have a great relationship, I guess with your fellow flight controllers, right? >> Completely agree. I think, so the relationship is key, and that's what we try to build upon in the preflights, and I -- people from the shuttle day, they've been talking to the older, more tenured flight controllers there. That was one thing they focused on, I think, so, leading up to flight, it's not only getting to know your tools, knowing your flight rules and how you operate the vehicle, but knowing the people that you work with, and knowing how -- not knowing them like the back of your hand, like a [inaudible], but just knowing the soft skills there, learning soft skills, learning what you need to improve on. So, because they tell you, by the time it comes to flight, you guys are more of a family. You guys are more of a family and you know how each person operates there. So, I completely agree with you on that. So that's one of the main things that we try to focus on. >> So, during your training, are you sitting with I guess a shuttle expert, a shuttle FIDO? Is a shuttle FIDO kind of training you and telling you all of these, like, literally saying, this is how -- these are the soft skills you need, these are the skills you need. Do you have like a mentor in this whole process? >> Yes. I think, so, that's one thing I love about my division and where I work in the FIDO group, and I think so it's a dynamic division there. We're fortuitous enough to have a lot of, an ample amount, of FIDOs who have served in the shuttle days, and even some people who serve -- who worked some of the first few shuttle missions. >> Alright! >> Shuttle missions. So, I think, so, we're just fortuitous enough to just gain all that knowledge there, and, of course, every new FIDO is given a more tenured FIDO as a mentor there. So they work with them and we have weekly, weekly to monthly meetings, up to each individual, to just learn, soak the lessons learned that they had in their earlier day then try to transition it to what we're -- we're expecting to face there. So, yes. >> Yeah. >> So it's just been a great opportunity. >> So what things have changed, just between a FIDO that was training during the shuttle days, and now for this new future exploration, of -- of exploration mission 1. I'm sure technology has progressed, I'm sure that maybe there's been lessons learned along the way that have changed, what are some of those changes? >> So, of course, I think, so, anybody can say this along the lines, just even looking at it, technology is completely different. >> Yeah. >> We have so much now that they didn't have that day. The training flow is a tad bit more condensed, just because of the timeline, of course. We try not to be because with shuttle they had sims back-to-back, they had so much time, and an ample of people to just like train close, so, you really got tested. Versus now with explorations, you know, we're trying to do the best that we can. Like I told you before, a lot of the training is not as advanced as ISS or shuttle was back in the day, we're trying to build it up, built it on the go, but still keep that detail, sense of detail, to make -- ensuring that everybody's trained appropriately, and we're not putting someone who is inappropriately trained on flight there, because, of course, it's the best of the best. If you can't talk on the loops, or if you don't know the technical material, you will not fly. >> Yeah. >> So, as far as changes, I think, sort of technology is one, I think so the training material is another one, of course, and increasing training material, you have to make sure everyone's confident, even the older FIDOs have to make sure -- come along with technology there, and the timing, the timing is more shorter than before there, so. [Inaudible] I could say, so, I think, so, as far as technology and timeline. >> Yeah, wow. A lot of changes, but it seems like, you know, you have so much mentorship and so much experience with you that it's, I guess you can say it's a little bit easier, maybe, because yes, this is a new -- a new type of mission, a new form of exploration, but it -- you can take some of those lessons from the Apollo days, you can take some of those lessons from -- from the shuttle days, and kind of fit it, all this experience, into this mission, and then it's kind of comforting to know that whenever this mission flies, you're going to have, like you said, the best of the best in that room monitoring the spacecraft as it goes. So who else is -- is in the room? So you've got a FIDO, FIDO is monitoring the vehicle itself, what other -- what other console positions are there for EM-1? >> So, I think, so, in -- in addition to FIDO, a lot of, so I think, so a lot of the console positions are just as similar to shuttle, just as similar to shuttle, such as we have someone responsible for GNC, Guidance Navigation Control, we have a prop guide [inaudible] officer, we have thermal guys there, so a lot of -- a lot of the flight controllers in shuttle mimic our -- the same supporting Orion. We have a landing support officer, like I told you, we have the different -- we have [inaudible] and FIDO for the launch, then we have orbit ones, then we have an entry one, three different positions, three different disciplines. You have the flight director who kind of coordinates everything with them and all of the flight controllers report to the flight director to give him a -- a report on the status there, and he kind of siphons that information to direct what's going on there. And, yeah, we have a PA guy, public affairs guy, who's always there, you know, just to make sure that we get everything. We have doctors there, doctors and surgeons to talk to the astronauts there. We have a power guy there, so, I think, so, those are just like -- like I said -- like I said, I could go on for days on the positions there [Gary laughing], I think, so, in summary, we have close to the same amount of flight controllers in the shuttle days, position wise, as for exploration. >> So how about EFT-1, exploration flight test 1 that we flew back in, is -- it was 2014, right, December 5th, 2014? Is a lot of those the same console positions for EM-1? >> Yeah, a lot of them for the same console position for EM-1. So, I think, so like I said, exploration flight test was, like what you said, the flight test to see how things operate post the shuttle, so there, so, yeah, so a lot of positions are the same. Some more, I think a few got added on more, I can't tell you specifically, not to my knowledge, but I think so. A lot of them are the same. >> Okay. Okay. So, how about the -- the training and the simulations? Are those, I mean, they sound rigorous, are they really tough? >> Yeah, they're really tough, like I said, prior to going to it, you go through a rigorous amount of training because even prior to these paper sims, or our simulations that we do go through, the same scrutiny is applied there versus that, you know, you have your mentors and you work with your team there, but if your mentor or your team lead doesn't feel that you're ready to be put in the sim there, you will not be put in the sim. Of course, you -- you fly how you train, you fly how you train, so if you're not putting in the work to train or show your proficiency or your excellence there, you're not going to be put in that seat to flight there. So, we take the same mentality versus training. So if you're not ready to be put in a sim, they're not going to put you in the sim in there. So, on that aspect, it is rigorous training, because it kind of puts a lot of responsibility on the individual, like myself there, to make sure that I not only know the technical stuff, but I'm also working on my communication, make sure I'm concise, and that -- you can do that to various outlets where, you know, you see these ISS flight controllers, and a lot of us, we sometimes just shadow the ISS flight controllers, like, can we just sit down with you and hear how you talk, how you talk to flight directors there, and just pick up little stuff and ask questions, like, why would you ask this? So, I agree with you. So, the training and the sims are very rigorous, like I said, they try to make sure that you're the top of the top before you -- they put you in that seat for sims because I think so leading up to that is training for flight. >> Yeah, yeah, well, you know, man, I can -- I can hear your passion, as you're explaining this, and I think you're going to be in the room with the best of the best, for sure. Alright, so before -- before I let you go, I would -- I do want to ask, what is going to -- is going to change between EM1 and EM-2? I know the major thing is that's going to be a crude mission, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, besides that, besides, of course, training the crew, that adds on a whole other level of.... >> Complexity. >> Yeah, not a -- yeah, so many words that you could apply to complexity, but not only that, kind of the design of the vehicle is changing a tad bit. It's like now we'll be flying on EUS, EUS I think, so that's a more upper stage vehicle. So, you kind of have to train your mentality on your structure, how you -- how you tackle -- how you tackle flight, how you tackle flight, and more constraints are added to, really more constraints are added that you have to be aware of when you're flying there. Like I said, I want to -- I -- the reason why I'm hesitant is because I want to talk more technical stuff, but then, again, I know the audience is probably just going to get lost in the words there. So, lost in the words there. So, I think, so just adding too is more risk and more constraints to the vehicle there. So those are the two things that will majorly change for EM-1 -- from EM1 to EM2 that we have to be cognizant about. >> A lot of challenges ahead! But I'm glad that you're the person that's going to be tackling. Mohammed, thanks so much for coming on and explaining what you do and those great missions that we are looking forward to. >> Thank you so much, Gary, thank you for taking time to interview me. >> No problem, man! [ Sound Effects ] Alright, awesome! Can't wait for EM-1. We have one more to go, who's our last guest. >> Okay, last is Macretia [assumed spelling] [inaudible], she's the Deputy Division Chief of Business and Information System Services in Human Health and Performance. >> Alright, quite a mouth -- mouthful [laughing]. Yeah, alright, let's go right ahead to that talk, she had a great conversation about leadership and her -- her -- her experiences there and how she translates those skills, so, Alex, take us through that final wormhole! [ Sound Effects ] Macretia, thanks so much for -- for coming on. You have an interesting story of kind of moving around and -- and transferring these skills from one place to another. So, where did you start here? >> I started my career quite many years ago, in the 90's, in the mid-90's. I started out as an ISS flight controller before we were even flying ISS, so I had the privilege in -- at that time, to become one of the very first mission control specialists for my system, for data systems. So that's how I started my career here at NASA. >> Alright! What's -- what was data systems? What were you focusing on? >> Focusing on computer networks and all of the software onboard the International Space Station. Because we built the space station as a puzzle or in pieces, it was a very huge undertaking to perform all of the upgrades needed to continue to expand the ISS. >> Because it was constantly changing. >> Right. So, as ISS was changing, so was software changing, so was hardware changing, so with every module we were bringing on new networks and new computers and we were upgrading and expanding the communications and data systems as -- as we went. So our responsibility was to make sure that all the upgrades took place, and those upgrades, we upgraded the ground because we didn't have any big storage devices on -- on board at that time, it's different now. So we had to orchestrate everything from the ground. So it was a lot of ground testing, a lot of integration with other centers, KSC, Marshal, of course here in Houston with her contractors. So it was a really great opportunity to work with international partners and so many people. I never would have imagined that I would have worked with a number of people and the different types of people that I worked with that early on in my career. So, it was a good -- a good experience for me. >> Definitely! And then it sounds like though, your role, being trained as one of the first flight controllers to look at data systems, it kind of gave you this new perspective that you could pass onto others. So that's kind of where you transition to -- were you mentoring and training and that sort of thing? >> Absolutely! I think you hit the nail right on the head. It was almost you're a specialist in your area, but you really were expected to transfer that knowledge to enable that consistency of cognizance, and, you know, that high degree of technical competency to others who were coming on later. So I quickly had to learn some key leadership skills. >> [Laughing] Alright, so then you -- like now you're training some people and you're -- you're developing these leadership skills, I'm guessing people to notice that, right? >> Absolutely! I had some very good mentors early on. I would say that my first branch chief that I had, he was an amazing leader. He taught me to pay attention, not only to what's going on technically, but to also understand and develop some understanding of culture and what's working in the organization, what doesn't work in the organization, who's excelling in the organization, so he really gave me some insight on how to get stronger as a leader, and he just helped me in that working all together. So, that -- that really helped me, just as a stepping stone to where I would continue on later. >> So would you say that the mission control and the flight control has kind of its own culture? >> It really does. It's a very interesting place. It's quite amazing, by the way, and anyone that's ever worked in the front room in mission control will tell you, there's really nothing like it. >> Wow. >> There -- the communication scheme is tailored for that room. The energy in the room is -- is -- it has its own energy, you can feel it when you -- when you walk into the room, but it's very -- very technical, and yet it's very formal, and it has a caring feel to it, because you're there to take care of that vehicle and ultimately to make sure that the crew succeeds. >> Yeah. >> And that ownership, in it's your responsibility. And when you're in that chair, if something happens that's related to your system, you have nowhere to deflect. It's your responsibility, so you have to have that component of leadership, ownership, to be able to sit in the chair and make the decisions to help the mission succeed. >> Right, this culture of accountability, but also collaboration, because, yes, you're responsible for that system, but you have so many people helping you. >> Absolutely. And you have to draw on the expertise of everyone in the room while respecting that, of course, the flight director is the ultimate decision maker. >> Alright. So, what are some of those cultural elements that -- that you sort of pass on and -- and -- when you're mentoring others, what -- what sorts of advice and tips do you give them to help them succeed in that environment? >> Well, definitely, you hit on one of them, accountability is one of the most important things, being present, being accurate, having quality work, being timely, and certainly if you do not understand, ask the questions early on so that you don't get to the end of your training flow or to the -- to the most important parts and not have the information or knowledge that you need. So I would say accountability is one thing, and establishing your network too, as well. None of us can do this together, it takes -- alone, it takes teamwork. This is a huge team effort, and to think that you can do it alone is incorrect in this environment, so, certainly encouraging people to rely on the team, various people have different expertise, so identify what those expertise are, and lean on those people so that you can get stronger in those areas. So accountability and -- and teamwork. Also, technical competency. You have to have a certain degree of technical competence in the environment to really survive and really be seen as a contributor in the team. So you have to then know yourself, identify your strengths, identify what drives you, try to understand what -- try to find something in your system or something around that really interests you, that you have a passion about, so that you become really, really good at doing that one thing so that you can then shine. So those are just a couple of things I always share with people. And then one important thing I always share with them is to keep the lines of communication open with your team and especially with your management. I often tell people that your managers are very busy, I'm busy a lot, but it doesn't hurt for you to sometimes come in and let me know what you're doing for me. >> Yes. Yes, that kind of openness. Right? Because it's that team environment translates to just the communication within the organization, as well, not just in the room. Do you find yourself kind of transferring these skills to your personal life too? Because it sounds like they're very transferable, this idea of open communication. >> That's funny that you would ask that, because I, you know, my husband used to work here, and he was actually the first African American flight director that we ever had here at NASA Quad C, [inaudible]. So, yeah, and I worked with him on console, believe it or not, as a -- an Odin officer. And so I worked with him on console, but, you know, we often have a conversation that some of the leadership tenets and skills that we learn here at NASA, we use them in our day-to-day lives. >> Yeah, yeah! >> We really do, and rearing our children, that accountability, responsibility, I'm constantly talking to them about being a team player, being accountable, you know, [laughing] and -- and making great decision making. I'm constantly talking to my son who is 11-years-old about how important it is to own it and really be transparent. So, absolutely, yes, I do that. >> You have to do it! This works in mission control, you have to do it! [Laughter] So this -- it sounds like you've taken these skills and sort of just, you -- you learn them, you develop them, you know, now you're bringing them into your own lives. Is that -- you kind of -- then you started transferring to other places and bringing these skills to all different parts of JSC, right? So where -- where did you go next after -- after this data systems flight controller? >> I was data systems team led, I became than a branch chief in the same area. What was interesting about that branch chief assignment, I became a branch -- I was a station flight controller at first, and when I became a branch chief, I was a branch chief in the data systems are, and, at that time, we had both shuttle and station component. So, I was very familiar with shuttle because of my experience in assembly in building the International Space Station, however, I've never managed a shuttle team before. So that was somewhat of a -- of a challenge for me. But the leadership aspects of the job, I learned very quickly, the leadership aspects of the job were very similar. >> Huh. >> There were just some key things I needed to understand about processes and the way things worked and the shuttle culture to really help me be a better leader for them. But leading people, the keys for leadership work, no matter what team you're leading. >> There you go! You just take the same leadership skills and apply them to...okay, how does this culture work? What is this team like? How can I kind of insert myself into this world and let them trust me and kind of guide them? >> Absolutely. >> Alright! So then you, again, you're rocketing right up, you're a branch chief now. >> I was branch chief for data systems, I've been moved over [chuckling] -- we -- you know, we like to reorg here at NASA, so we re-org'd and what we did, we saw that shuttle was going to be ending soon, so a few years prior to that, we wanted to get out in front of that in mission operations and create opportunities for people to do, cross pollinate and do other things, so that when shuttle retired, that they would have different skills. So, what we did is we combined flight control and training. They were two separate organizations, but we put them together. And so then my new organization brought the astronaut trainers and flight control trainers, and along with -- with flight controllers. Now, it's all the business of flight operations, but they're different perspectives from a training or instructing perspective, and you've got the flight control perspective there, and you have shuttle and station. So, I took the role over in the communications and data systems for station. But in that role, it was ISS, all ISS, but training in flight control. And so I did that, same thing, using some of the same skills, learning some new skills to go along with it, because the big challenge in that one is a lot of change going on, and people were concerned about the shuttle retirement. So, I had to quickly develop trust of the team and I used a lot of transparency in working with that team. I found that just telling that what I knew really, really helped to keep the team gelled together and with the other leadership skills. And from there, I went off to headquarters, and I did an -- a temporary assignment in a program assessment area, and that was an amazing opportunity. I got a chance to work with some of the high-level leaders, AAs, I sat on the APMC, took notes for the APMC at the agency level, and it really gave me a perspective of what funnels from JSC and other -- other centers up to headquarters. So, while that was somewhat of a, I call it I was a glorified secretary assignment. It really exposed me to the matters that were discussed, the behaviors of the top level leaders, of the agency, the big concerns that were being worked, and I had the privilege of being there when constellation was being discussed and decisions were being made. >> I see. >> So, I saw a lot. I heard a lot. I learned a lot. >> Okay! >> In that experience, and then I came back here to the center, after a year of doing that, and I accepted a rotational assignment over in the OCFO, and I was the Deputy Division Chief for the central budget office, so I learned more about budgets and how money funnels into this center, and I worked with -- with that team to help resolve some -- somethings that were going on in the team, help improve some processes, so I was really proud of my support that I provided to that area. And when -- after that assignment was over, MOD, at the time, which is now FOD, offered me an assignment to go over to the electrical power system, I was there for three years, and then I moved over to environmental systems to help with some leadership challenges that were there, and I just [laughing] -- sounds like I'm just -- I'm moving around, but... >> They wanted you to move so you can fix it! >> I spent four years in the environmental systems, and when things started feeling like they were running smoothly, I think I started getting a little bit bored. And so, I feel like I needed another challenge. >> Yeah, fix it, move on. >> And so I moved on, I took a -- I applied for and was selected at the Deputy Division Chief of the Business and Information Systems over here in Human Health and Performance. >> Alright, and that's your current role right now? >> That is my current role. >> And it's brand new for the journey! Wow, what a journey! It sounds like -- that's what it sounds like, it sounds like you went to -- you went to an area, you kind of developed this system of leadership and here's how things are working, and then kind of made it run efficiently, and then you moved on and you fixed another area. So those -- those, like you said, I think the big takeaway here is those -- those leadership skills are transferable. They are extremely transferable. >> I think they transfer to any industry, it really is its own competency. I heard, we had a directorate chief many years ago, his name was Allen [assumed spelling] [inaudible], and he presented himself as a leadership expert. I never really heard that before, and that sort of rang with me, and he really instilled in us that while technical is important and it is, and we are all to be, you know, technically-competent, leadership is also important, and running a business and being a leader in an organization. It's as important as your technical. >> Wow, okay. So, before I let you go, I do want to pick your brain for one big leadership tip that you've taken with you from place to place. What is one of the, maybe a strategy or just an approach, that makes your leadership technique successful? >> Okay, I think transparency is important. Often communic -- I don't really have an agenda. So, there's no hidden agenda. But there -- if there are things, if there are elephants in the room, if there are things that we need to correct and -- and proved, I'll be very honest with the team about, you know, about things that we need to -- to improve, in a transparent way. So building that trust with your team, being very transparent, is very important. I think how you start with the team is really, really important. And one of my logos is, you know, together, everyone achieves more, and that's team. >> Yes. And you need trust to have a successful team. Fantastic! Macretia, thank you so much for coming on and telling your story and giving me some great leadership tips. Amazing. Such a great story, and -- and an amazing career. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you! [ Sound Effects ] >> Alright, Kai, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today and helping me to put this together, introduce our guests. This is kind of cool because it's -- it's a brand new format. We see a mashup of all these different areas, and it kind of gives you this nice snapshot of everything going on at the center. So, you know, all of these things going on at once. So, thanks, again, for helping me to put this together! >> Thank you! And it was an amazing experience, and we hope everyone learned something today. >> Definitely. [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] Hey, thanks for sticking around! So, thanks, again, to Kai for kind of helping bring this together for this special episode for African American History Month. Great celebration, and I'm glad we have employee resource groups here on center to help us celebrate that. So if you want to know more about what's going on here at center, that's nasa.gov/johnson, you can see all of our various events that we have going on here at the center, otherwise, you can follow us on social media. Per usual, the NASA Johnson Space Center accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Facebook it's, NASA Johnson Space Center, Twitters, it's @NASA_Johnson, and Instagram is @nasajohnson. You can use the hashtag, ask NASA, on any one of those platforms to submit an idea for the show and we'll make sure to either make a whole episode out of it or maybe we'll answer it on a future episode of Houston, We Have A Podcast, just make sure to mention it's for the show. So the credits for today, this podcast was recorded on January 31, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Kelly Humphries, and Kai Harris for helping to put this together! And thanks again to all of our guests for coming on the show, Antya Chambers, Gavin Guy, Mohammed Sibu, and Macretia [inaudible]. We'll see you next week!

Mississippi Headwaters Reservoirs Oral History Interviews, Series 2

DTIC Science & Technology

1988-06-01

falls in wash dishes; we went over them falls in nude , we went over them with our clothes on; you name it and we did it on that dam, you know. And ah...remember he come fished with us. He was married to a girl from Bemidji. INT: Ah,ha. . ML: Yeah. INT: So. ML: Boy that was a big day down around the... teens , but it was all cutover timber. Did you know very much, or meet . very many of the Indian people who lived in the area ,.- when you were

Wealthy in Heart: Oral History of Life Before Fort A.P. Hill

DTIC Science & Technology

2011-05-01

of his breakfast (Laughing). He never got fat . HELEN KOCSIS WIZESNINSKI He [grandfather] used to work early, and then they’d come home and they’d...fruit jars . . . Yeah, canned it that way. And the fat portion of the hogs were cooked and made into lard, and that was your shortening for your...couldn’t make his biscuit and molasses, so he kept eating. He was not fat , though, he was a small man. I had to bring wood in to have plenty of wood in

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 50: DNA Sequencing

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-06-22

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 50, DNA sequencing. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. On this podcast we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers and astronauts, all to let you know the coolest information about what's going on right here at NASA. So today we're talking about DNA sequencing on board the International Space Station with Dr. Sarah Wallace. First a little background, DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid. This basically serves as a blueprint for any organism. DNA provides detailed instructions on how to make a living thing what it is, whether it's a banana tree, bunny rabbit or human being. DNA sequencing is when you take a small sample of a living thing, such as a mold from the kitchen sink or cheek cells from your mouth and extract the DNA from the cells. Then you determine the order of the nucleotide basis. This is the order then that's matched with the patterns of known organisms. Thirty years ago, first-generation DNA sequencing machines could easily take up an entire laboratory's worth of space. Now we're using a sequencer on the International Space Station that could literally fit inside of a pocket. So today, we're talking with Dr. Sarah Wallace who was instrumental in developing this sequencer as part of a multicenter effort led right here at the Johnson Space Center. I'm particularly excited about this interview because DNA sequencing can be used for all sorts of beneficial things in space from monitoring the crew members' health to identifying microbes, and even potentially detecting life in the solar system. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Sarah Wallace. Enjoy. ~- [ Music ] Host: Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Very excited for this topic because DNA sequencing, this is relatively new for spaceflight in particular, but it sounds super cool, but if you kind of know what it is. And that's the thing is whenever I was like cool, yeah, DNA sequencing in space. What is that? So, if we can just start there. What's DNA sequencing? Sarah Wallace: Sure, so DNA sequencing, like you mentioned, not new to labs here on Earth. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Definitely brand new to space. Traditionally, you know, we've been doing DNA sequencing on the ground for a couple decades now through different methods of doing it. But it's definitely evolved to the point where the instrumentation could be small and portable enough that we could do it in space. The old, most of the sequencers, the other two that I have in my lab, they're very large. They're sensitive to vibrations. They require a large power draw. As you know, those are not things that are awesome for spaceflight. Makes things a little difficult. So when this new technology came out that would really let us achieve the same thing, which is obtaining the sequence of DNA in a smaller platform, that's what's really allowed us to do it in space. So really, DNA sequencing is just that, just determining that order of those four bases, the A, the G, the T and the C, that if you sometimes see all those kind of, just looks like a bunch of letters and looks like it doesn't mean anything. But that's that sequence that makes up every living thing. And so this instrument is letting us determine that sequence. Host: So I hate to back up even further than that, but you're talking to a marketing major here. So if we're to backup to DNA and these four letters, what is that? Sarah Wallace: So they're made of, these are the nucleotide bases, so that's really a sugar phosphate backbone that you have these, the bases on. So, do you just want me to say deoxyribonucleic acid? Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Okay, like I didn't know, like am I going too simple? Okay. So deoxyribonucleic acid, and so this is really, again, like it makes up every living thing. And so it's, you know, one of the basic building blocks, or the basic thing that makes up these blueprints that we know all lifeforms on Earth have this very similar, incredibly similar structure that if we can determine the sequence, that can tell us, either tell us all about that living thing, even if it's something small like a microorganism. Even tells who that living thing is. So it's really just an abundance of information that we can get on something. Host: So, basically, the order of these four things spread out over how many characters? Millions? Or is it millions? Sarah Wallace: Yeah. Yep, depending on if we're talking about for a human or for a plant or for bacteria. You're going to have different size genomes. So this makes up your genome. And so what those four letters do is that they code for genes. So a sequence of these four letters make up a gene. And it's those genes and the way that they get turned on and off that tells our bodies how to respond to certain environments, and they're telling our cells when to grow and when to, you know, all these different things. So by looking at the DNA, we have the genes. And then we need to take it a step further to look at the RNA which is, DNA is transcribed into RNA. And so by looking at the RNA, which is what our next experiment is going to do, that gets back to the telling us which genes are on and off. So the DNA in theory should always be the same, unless it's changed by something like a mutation. Now your gene expression, that's something that's changing all the time. And we do that by measuring the RNA. Host: Interesting. This is a complicated world. Sarah Wallace: It is. I'm sorry. I'm not doing a good job. Host: No, you're doing great. It's me who didn't study enough in school. Sarah Wallace: Well, and I'm jumping ahead and all over the place. Host: But if I were to sort of take it down to my brain capacity, this, a gene, for example, is, and correct me if I'm wrong, the color of your hair. So a gene is going to say, you have brown hair. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: And then this sequence is going to say, this person is going to have brown hair based on this gene. Sarah Wallace: Right. Host: Okay. Sarah Wallace: Yeah. Host: But it doesn't, it's not like it's going to identify this long string of letters and just like this is Dr. Sarah Wallace. Sarah Wallace: We're getting there. Host: Really? Sarah Wallace: Yeah, we're getting there. So with a microorganism, that's exactly what it's going to do. It's going to tell me who that microorganism is. And for me as a microbiologist, that's what I want to know. Host: That's awesome. Sarah Wallace: I want to know, yep, I want to know who that is that could potentially make the crew sick or be a problem to the ISS environment. A lot, there's a lot of companies, I'm sure you've seen the commercials on TV for send us your DNA sample, and we'll tell you all about you. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: They're getting into the, it's getting pretty specific to where if you, you know, you can find out a lot about somebody's background, their heritage, maybe what certain, you know, diseases they might be more likely to have. So it's, we're kind of right at that point I think. And again, I'm a microbiologist, not human. But a dose of the human genomes. But we're kind of right at the cusp of where that's really starting to take off to where you could start looking at things like personalized medicine based on your genome. And that's really where a lot of research is headed. Host: Is it fair to say that that's huge. Sarah Wallace: Uh-huh. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Yeah. Host: That's a big one, right? Sarah Wallace: Yeah. And, you know, especially for NASA. These are, you know, we have a, you know our crew is, you know, they're a healthy population. So, you know, we're not looking necessarily if they have these diseases, but if there were a way where we could understand if a crew was more, would metabolize a certain nutrient better, or there was a way we could alter it based on their genome, that may be a countermeasure for being able to, you know, if certain nutrients are limited or, you know, the body isn't absorbing them, that you could really handle that at the level of the genome. Host: So you can basically identify where the gaps are, and you say you need this extra nutrient. Okay, add this to the diet. Or, yeah basically -- Sarah Wallace: Or if they're taking it in, but they're just not metabolizing it. And so they're getting plenty of it, but it's being excreted in their urine because their body isn't metabolizing it as well as somebody else's. So maybe there's other things that you can do to help them increase their metabolism of that nutrient. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: But the research is already kind of headed in that direction. Host: Like maybe some sort of pharmaceutical that can help them to digest or something like that. Sarah Wallace: Same thing. Same thing, yep. Yep. Host: Okay. Sarah Wallace: And maybe someone is more prone to be susceptible to a certain type of pharmaceutical or somebody else wouldn't be. And those are things that we're starting to really look at the level of the genome to provide insight towards. Host: Wow, okay, so I guess, there's a lot of things to look forward to in the future, but in terms of DNA sequencing, I guess right now on the Station, we'll start with what are we doing now? What are we learning now on the Station with sequencing? Sarah Wallace: So our very first experiment on the biomolecule sequencer -- Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Dr. Aaron Burton was the principal investigator of that experiment. That was really to take this new piece of technology, this very small sequencer that, again, the output of what it gives you is the same as these big ones. It just does it in a very different way. But does this even work in microgravity? Before we start developing a lot of ways to prepare the sample, does this thing even work? So that was the first experiment. And that's the one that, you know, Kate Rubins, I think that picture's been seen a lot, her holding it with her success, the first DNA sequencing. And that's really what it was. We prepared the DNA on the ground here on Earth. And then we launched the DNA. We launched the sequencer. And everything worked beautifully. Much better than we could have expected. And so then the follow one that we were already working on at the same time, we had gotten funding to develop, was that sample prep process. Because the sequencer is no good if you don't have a way to prep your sample. And every sequencer, this very tiny one to the larger ones, you have to put the DNA in a state that the sequencer can recognize it or read it. So that sample preparation part is key no matter what DNA sequencer you're using. So that was really where the, where some of the got yous would be is how do I basically put my entire molecular biology lab on ISS? And so what we were really doing was finding ways, you know, using what was already out there and technology that was already up there, and just how can we tweak procedures to make this as easy for the crew to do as possible but get us meaningful science. Host: Did size have a lot to do with it? You were constrained on how much you can bring up and how much you can have, you know. Sarah Wallace: Exactly. Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sarah Wallace: Size and power and, you know, something that we use a lot of on the ground is a centrifuge. And while there are centrifuges up there, they're not, they're not exactly the same ones we would use for this type of, you know, to do the molecular biology where you just quickly pop in a little tube in and out. They're very specialized. So they weren't available to us. So it was actually a piece of equipment that was already up there that was called mini PCR. And that PCR stands for the polymerase chain reaction. And that process is just amplifying DNA. So you can think of it kind of like a photocopier for DNA. So if you have a very little amount, you can turn it into a lot. And that's a common first step in any molecular biology process but especially DNA sequencing. That's usually a first step thing you're going to do. So that was already on board. It was actually, the Genes in Space program, which is a high school student, high school students get involved, and they can propose an experiment. So the first molecular biology experiment ever done in space as a high school student, which I think is just cool. I just think, you know, way to go. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: And so we were able to partner with them, our biomolecule sequencer and mini PCR, and we became Genes in Space-3. And so what that was, Genes in Space-3 was really to show that we could go all the way from a sample to an answer. And what we chose as our sample for that was actually microorganisms that have been collected from and cultured on ISS as part of my lab's normal job is to monitor the ISS air, water and surface for what's growing up there. So we already have this stuff growing up there, but it wasn't a part of our process. So we were able to pull in some of those bacteria and actually have the astronaut sequence them on board, which is the first time we've ever identified anything off planet Earth. So super exciting. Host: So the sample was the stuff that's growing. What's growing? What's growing up there? Sarah Wallace: Well, it's not all necessarily growing, but some of it is. There's everything. So ISS has a microbiome just like we do. So, every, you know, we don't send up a sterile vehicle. We don't send up sterile crew. We don't send up sterile anything. You know, cargo, hardware, food, everything has microorganisms that it's taking up there. Host: It's as sterile as we can make it, but -- Sarah Wallace: Well, and we do our best to reduce potential pathogens from getting up there. But as I think we're starting to learn, there's a healthy balance. There's very beneficial microbes. And we're still working on understanding how those in the environment interplay with us as humans in our daily life. That research is just starting to get underway. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: But, what we want to do is make sure that some of those potential pathogens that we carry with us aren't there in high abundance to where a crew could come in contact with them, or they would get into the water system and something could foul up the water system and cause problems for the vehicle that would be a problem for everybody. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: So that's part of our normal. We've been doing that since the beginning of Station. Host: Right. Sarah Wallace: And the astronauts actually are physically culturing the bacteria and the fungi that are up there. Host: Is this a normal part of living in a contained environment, I guess? No matter what kind of contained environment, there's going to be this microbiome -- Sarah Wallace: Absolutely. Host: these fungi bacterial that are just going to. But you have to learn to coexist with them in this type space. Sarah Wallace: Absolutely. Right. Host: And that's really what it is. Sarah Wallace: Yeah, and really just reducing the risk. If we find something that, there are definitely things we carry as people, but you know, they're fine when they're on us. But we don't want them out in the environment in high numbers where the crew has a scrape or something. They accidently bump up against it. They get it in there. You know, there's, we just want to have the environment be as free of those types of things as possible. Host: Sure. Sarah Wallace: And also the things, like I said, that could foul up one of the environmental life support systems because something's growing in them. Which is something we have to keep a close eye on. So, that's really the why we do this monitoring in the first place is just to see, making sure the environment is leading to the least amount of risk possible. Host: So what's the normal monitoring that you do? And then what was this, you said there was a sample and then answer section of the DNA. Sarah Wallace: Yes. Yep. Host: So what are those two components? Sarah Wallace: So the normal monitoring is this basic have the astronaut collect from the air, the water, the surface, a sample, and actually grow the bacteria and the fungi. That's what we do all the time. Host: Cool. Sarah Wallace: Then we get about an idea of about how many is there, but we have no idea what it is. And as a microbiologist, I would argue that oftentimes, with some of these environmental bugs, sometimes what it is can be more important than how many there are. When you drink water, you're drinking bacteria, and it could be in relatively high number. They don't hurt you, but if just a few of the wrong type are in there, you're in for a rough night. And anybody that's ever had food poisoning or anything kind of knows, yeah. You don't want the crew to experience that. So, it's really important to know what it is, not just how many there are. So we, up until very recently, we have never been able to have that answer in space. We have to wait until those samples come back to the lab on the ground here and for our microbiologists to be able to process them and provide an answer. And we do that through DNA sequencing. So now, with Genes in Space-3, we were able to take one of those samples that we would normally return, and we were able to actually have the astronaut take some of the cells that had been grown and put them through our mini PCR process into the MinION, which is the DNA sequencer, and actually, we were able to get the data down of what was growing on those petri dishes before we even got the petri dish back. So that was, again, that's really something we need to be able to enable, you know, human exploration beyond ISS. So it was, for me, that was one of the most exciting moments I've ever had in my career was seeing, you know, sitting there watching the data come down and watching us analyze it and see the IDs pop up, just because it's not a capability we've ever had. Host: Yeah. So you're basically scrubbing the station and putting it into here, hey, is this going to hurt me. And then you put it through the DNA sequencer, and you can find out pretty quickly, no, I'm good. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: And that's really the benefit rather than waiting for a return mission. Sarah Wallace: Exactly. Exactly. Host: Okay, yeah. Sarah Wallace: Yep, because imagine if you're not on ISS, and you have a limited supply of antibiotics -- Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: If you have a wound infection, do you treat it with the antibiotic, because maybe it's something we need to worry about. Or, is it an acne-causing bacteria? Like, don't waste the antibiotic. Let's save it. Because we can't resupply. And same thing with the disinfectant wipe. If something's growing up on station, which we've seen it, do we need to waste all of our disinfectant wipes to go clean that up? Or is it something that we don't need to worry about until later down the road? So it's really those types of questions that we get into that I think the sequencer is going to be hugely powerful in helping us address. Host: Yeah, just basic, yeah, okay, I can coexist with this for a while. It's not going to hurt me. But then also, identifying okay, this, if I have this particular type of bacteria, now you're talking about efficiency of pharmaceuticals. You're talking about, you don't waste, don't waste this one, because it's not going to work. Because the DNA sequencer identified it as this, therefore, you need to use this pharmaceutical. Sarah Wallace: Different, yep. Host: Wow, that's significant. Sarah Wallace: Yeah, and it's just, you know, and this is, again, this is all very micro-specific, because that's what I do. But those things we talked about early on, that's really the research is starting to be there on the human health front. You know, how are humans responding to things and, you know, measuring changes in the crew members' gene expression and things like that that really, you know, I think, so much beyond just microbes. But for now, the microbe part for me is just huge and exciting. Host: You're right, there's those steps, right. Let's deal with the microbe now, but then eventually, we'll be able to identify, that's Sarah Wallace. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: We'll get there. You know, we sort of addressed it in the beginning, but I don't think I circled back to it. One of the main things for the MinION is what you called it right, whenever you were first testing it on board the station was to see does this thing work in microgravity. Sarah Wallace: Correct. Host: So, what were the concerns that it wouldn't? Sarah Wallace: Well, everything, the way that the sequencer works, your DNA is in a fluid. It's in a buffer. And there's some salts, some other things that, there's, that when you turn on the sequencer, basically these things start to flow through these proteins. These are actual proteins. We call them nanopores. So it's a nanopore sequencer. So they're the same type of proteins that your cells have and my cells have that let ions in and out of our cells. It's those same proteins in a membrane. And as the DNA, well, let me back up, as those salts that are in the buffer flow through there, a current is created. As the DNA molecule passes through, it changes that current. It's the change in current that the software then takes and changes it into the AGTC sequence that we're looking for. So with that, the fluid and the buffers, all of that, any time there's fluidics involved, you never quite know in microgravity. Host: Yes. Sarah Wallace: On the ground, we have issues where if accidently when you're loading your sample a bubble is introduced, that bubble is very problematic. Was that going to be the same in space? So it was some very, pretty simple fundamental questions in terms of just the operation of such a small device and, you know, the crew working on a small scale. Then back to kind of the fluidics issues with bubbles, things that we just really didn't know until we got it up there. Host: Yeah, one of the things I always go back to with fluids is, I mean, if you just see any video of water is space, it's one of the coolest things to watch. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: Because you think, the primary force on Earth that controls water is gravity. That's what helps it stick to a cup. But at the same time, you're going to get little sweat beads, and that's the surface tension. Surface tension dominates in microgravity. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: And I could see that really, really messing with, but I mean, so you said you didn't have any problems. How much of it was because you had Kate Rubins, who's an expert in this sort of thing, dealing with it versus the capability of the machine. If you said everything's working perfectly, I'm thinking it's the latter. Sarah Wallace: I think, I think it's the latter as well. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: I think that, right now we've been so fortunate. We've had Kate Rubins and then Peggy Whitson. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: So couldn't, yeah, couldn't ask for better hands in terms of come from a lab. I mean, that's what, these are scientists. Host: They're scientists. Sarah Wallace: That's what they do. Host: Right. Sarah Wallace: So for them, it wasn't a foreign thing. We have, again, microgravity isn't at play here, but we have had multiple astronauts test this for the last two NEEMO expeditions, which is the NEEMO is a, it's Nasa Extreme Environment Mission Operations. So it's Florida International University owns this habitat that sits on the ocean floor off the coasts of Key Largo. Host: Aquarius. Sarah Wallace: There we go. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Thank you. And every, NASA rents it out for a couple weeks during the summer to send some of their astronauts to train. So last two summers we've had a lot of different astronauts get their hands on it from this, so we've actually had far more than just Kate and Peggy run the sequencer. And in extreme environment, we just haven't, we're working on writing up those papers, and they just haven't gotten talked as much about. But I think that speaks to the, just the device itself and how well it was designed, that it really is, we're doing something very, very complex. But the system is pretty simple to use, and then I like to think that the process that we've developed to do the sample prep is also pretty simple. Of course, there's, we're trying to make it better and even more simple and more automated. But it's working, and we're really excited to see where it all goes. Host: So what were they identifying in Aquarius? Were they scrubbing like the ocean floor or something? Sarah Wallace: So here's the kicker with this. So we are still focused on the inside of the habitat. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: But what we were doing was we were having the crew swab a surface. That swab was going directly into the process. So we were removing the need to first culture the microorganisms. So how great would that be if we didn't, if we have potential pathogens, if the crew never has to turn them from, you know, a couple hundred maybe on the surface to millions. And we could remove that step completely. And so what we do right now is a culture-dependent process. What I hope to see in the future is a culture independent process. That's what we've been working on getting ready at NEEMO for our next spaceflight investigation. Host: So I might be missing a step. Is this that PCR component where you're making a lot of copies and -- Sarah Wallace: Kind of. Host: Okay, okay. Sarah Wallace: So we'll still need PCR, but PCR you can think of PCR as copying the DNA. Host: I see. Sarah Wallace: That culture, you can think of the actual, they're growing. They're living, they're growing, those cells are dividing. So you're amplifying the material, but those cells are living, you get the big fuzzy spots from the fungus and the big colonies from the bacteria. So removing that part. So you would still amplify the DNA, but you would never have to increase the number of organisms that you had originally in your sample, Which culture, that's what you're doing, you're increasing the number of living organisms. Host: Okay, what's the, is there a fancy culturing process in order to make sure that these things, or is it just, what do you do to culture them? To make sure that they go through this process. Sarah Wallace: That's, it's the same way, it is good old microbiology 101. The same way, if you ever took a class where you went and streaked something out and streaked it across the plate, that's the exact same thing the astronauts are doing. Host: That's what you're doing. Okay. Sarah Wallace: There's, picture a petri dish with the food in there, and that's the same thing. So it's the way microbiology has been done since the beginning. The way we've been doing microbiology since Apollo. Host: Wow. Sarah Wallace: It's great. It's the gold standard. It's you know what you have, you know. There are some drawbacks, as are with anything. And I just think moving away and not needing to do that in the future would be huge. Host: Yeah. It seems like there's a lot of microbiology components to flying in space that maybe you wouldn't normally think about. Sarah Wallace: I think, yeah, I think we're a little underrated. I don't think people think enough about us. There are, I mean, and it's, I think a lot of people, you know, take it for granted. We, you know, keeping the crew safe and healthy is what everybody who works for NASA in some way, shape or form is, that's what we care about. But if anybody's ever, you know, you've had strep throat, you've had, you know, something, a cut that gets infected. You know, you've been plagued by these things. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Infectious disease is an issue that everybody has dealt with. And just because we send astronauts up there, they may not be exposed to the flu virus or the cold virus as often as we are, but they're carrying up those bacteria and things with them that could potentially make them sick. Host: That's right. And how cool would it be if you can just use this mini PCR, and you have a little bit of a cough. And you take a little swab and put it into the mini PCR, and you're like okay, this is this kind of flu or common cold or something. And then okay, I need to take these antibiotics or something. Sarah Wallace: That's my goal. So the two-part. You do that, you just, whether it's a swab or, you know, you just something into mini PCR and then into the MinION. So we amplify it, and then we sequence. Host: Amplify, sequence. Sarah Wallace: And then that will give, and that's, we're doing that right now with just the swab. So I can envision it, you know, as the technology becomes more sensitive and we start to understand this kind of culture-independent data better, and develop proper standards and controls, I can really see it going in that direction. Host: So you talked about Genes in Space-3. And I know there's been more. So what's the sort of progress that you're taking to learn more and more about this study? Sarah Wallace: So, the biomolecule sequencer was the first. Host: Okay. Sarah Wallace: That's the, we're going to, that's what we called the MinION. That is the actual, is the company name of the sequencer. We call it the biomolecule sequencer. Host: It's a commercial off-the-shelf product, right? Sarah Wallace: Exactly. Host: Okay. Sarah Wallace: Oxford Nanopore Technologies and really the only sequencer out there that I can put in my pocket and fly to ISS. You know, it's really that small. Host: Wow. Sarah Wallace: And it's smaller than your smartphone. So the other, and then mini PCR is also extremely small. So the first one was just a biomolecule sequencer. Genes in Space at the time, we were not collaborating with them. That was a high school student's experiment, just to show same thing, DNA can be amplified in space. Host: Right. Sarah Wallace: And then we collaborated, and that was Genes in Space-3. And we're continuing our collaborations. The next investigation is called BEST, the BEST experiment. Host: Very humble. Sarah Wallace: Right. Stands for Biomolecule Extraction and Sequencing Technology. Really, what we're going to do with that is just everything we can. We're going to take advantage while we have a little bit left of this extra crew time, of this crew member, we're going to take advantage of as much science as we can get done. So that swab process I as talking about, where we just have them swab and stick that swab directly into the process, never culture anything. We're going to try that out. We are also going to do some evolution-type experiments. We're going to send up some bacteria that are common water bacteria that, you know, no one, that are very, they're safe to handle. Send them up and have them grow and then have the crew do some transfers of them. So we get a lot of generations of them reproducing. And see if we can start to see by sequencing their entire genome, see if we can start to see any changes due to mutation. And so this is something that, you know, a lot of people have been working on trying to define a mutation rate. It's hard if you don't have a proper ground control where you're tracking the same thing. And so people ask me all the time as a microbiologist, well, do things mutate? I don't know, because the staph aureus that we isolated from the Space Station, I don't have that exact staph aureus before it launched. So I can't say if it mutated. But this, we will have, we'll be able to start to get some insight into maybe how susceptible, at least this organism, is to radiation and if we can see any changes at the level of the genome. So then the next experiment, and I'm equally excited about all of them, but I'm very much excited about this one. Host: You can tell. Sarah Wallace: We will be sequencing RNA directly. This is a big deal because this is really the only platform out there that you can do direct RNA sequencing. Most of the time, you're converting RNA back into cDNA to be able to sequence it when you're doing these types of experiments. But with the Nanopore sequencer, we can sequence RNA directly, meaning we don't have to do a lot of things to change it. So I'll tell you why this is important. You yourself have your DNA in you right now that is, it says who you are, and it makes you up. But it doesn't tell me anything about what you are experiencing right now. If I'm just looking at the DNA, actually there are ways that it could tell me some things. But we'll keep it simple. So, but if I want to know things about how you're responding to your environment, I want to know what genes are being turned on and turned off. Because let's just say you have 100 genes. You have much more than that, but let's say you have 100. You don't need all 100 all the time, so your body is not going to waste energy expressing all 100 all the time. So maybe right now, sitting here talking to me, you're just trying to keep your eyes open, so you're only using those 20 to do that. Host: I'm trying to pretend I'm smart. That's what I'm doing right now. Sarah Wallace: You're doing a great job. So if I wanted to know that this environment of me talking to you is doing, I would want to know which genes are turned on and turned off. Host: Okay. Sarah Wallace: In space, that is kind of the goal is how are organisms, how are living things responding to space. And how we do that is looking at what genes are on and what genes are off. So to turn a gene on and off, you transcribe it into RNA. So that DNA makes RNA, which eventually goes on to make a protein, which will do something. But it's that RNA that's telling, that we can look at and see what kind of environment you're in. So we know the gene expression changes. Every time we've done a spaceflight experiment or we look at a living thing, we see their gene expression changing. That's just, it does because you're in a, you need certain things in space. Certain genes need to be on and off that aren't the same as they would be on Earth. Whether it's due to radiation or microgravity or you're changing your diet. All of these things. We're really now just trying to understand all this and pick it apart. So if I have a capability to where I can sequence RNA directly without having to turn it back into cDNA, which we do for most of the sequencers on Earth, and I can do it right there, I can gain a lot of insight into how these things are responding and when. And it's really important, because they change over time. And so to be able to track that and do it would give us just a huge amount of insight that we haven't had. So with this experiment, that's what we're going to do is we're going to sequence RNA directly and actually have the crew, RNA is a little less stable than DNA. It's a little bit more difficult to work with. So have the crew go through all the steps of preparing it and sequencing it. Host: So I'm trying to think of an example to sort of wrap my brain around this. So if you were to swab, I guess, some of the microbiome [phonetic] in this station, right, and then we'll just say the DNA would tell you this is kind of microbiome it is. What would it say, what would the RNA tell you about how it's reacting? What do you expect? Sarah Wallace: That's what it was. So the DNA would tell me who is there. Host: Yes. Sarah Wallace: The RNA would tell me what genes were being turned on and turned off. So it would tell me what that system, as the whole, what they are doing. So are they metabolizing the surface that they're on? Are they being able to, are they producing, are they giving off some kind of, you know, different compound? Or is it just a simple, are they just respiring? So it would tell us the function more what they are doing. It gives more towards that functionality. And so, with our cells, it tells us, again, are you able, are you building up muscle? Are you tearing down muscle? Are you, those types of things that -- Host: Wow. Sarah Wallace: Yeah. To really get at what's going on in the whole system. Aaron is my analogy guy. I should have asked him for a good analogy. Host: That's a great analogy. Sarah Wallace: He's good. But that's, it's really, it's what, the DNA tells you what capabilities are there. The RNA tells you what's actually happening. Host: So it's like, okay, so I'm going to scale it up a bit to humans. And tell me if I'm wrong again. Sarah Wallace: Okay. Host: So, the DNA would tell you, this is, let's just say Gary's flying in space. This is Gary. He has brown hair and, you know, brown eyes, and he's this tall. That's what the DNA tells you. The RNA is going to tell you he is losing muscle in this area. His eyes are changing this way, and he's kind of nervous and scared about doing this podcast. Sarah Wallace: Yes. Host: Yes, that's what it would tell you. Sarah Wallace: There we go. Yes. Host: Okay, good. Sarah Wallace: Yes. And all those little things about, all those different systems and how they're functioning together and separately, you know, and just how everything you said. Host: Okay. All right. Very interesting stuff, and especially there's a lot of applications that can go forward. I did want to circle back to just microbiology and you. How did you sort of get into this world that turned from microbiology to space microbiology? Sarah Wallace: So it all started space for me. I'm one of -- Host: Space first, okay. Sarah Wallace: I'm one of those, yep. So I am very fortunate to have grown up in a small town in Kansas. That small town in Kansas was located within about an hour drive to another small town in Kansas, Hutchinson, Kansas, which is home to the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center. I tell everybody if you're a space nerd, you have to go there. It's the largest collection of spaceflight memorabilia anywhere in the world, both US and Soviet at the time, Russia now. Just a phenomenal collection. Apollo 13 is there. I think the Liberty Bell is traveling around, but it was there. It's where we're sending pieces of mission control to get restored. So it really, it really is like, this is where you go to nerd out. Host: Yeah, that'll get you into space. Sarah Wallace: And they had a space camp, so I know it's not the space camp in Huntsville. But I went to that space camp. And so, just really, my sixth grade science teacher, Jim Lester, just really, he inspired the love of space in me. And not only did we take tests over, you know, the solar system, like all sixth graders do, but we took tests over NASA history. And I just loved it. So, when I, it was really when I got to undergrad, I knew, I was always a biology girl. I was never that strong in math and engineering, so thank goodness that I didn't need to do a whole lot of it. I had to do well in those classes to do well to get into graduate school. Host: Yep. Sarah Wallace: But my strength was always more in the life sciences in biology and chemistry. And so when I got into undergrad, I really, I didn't know, but there was a professor there that had some NASA funding doing kind of astrobiology-type work. And he was like, come work in my lab for a little while, and that's where I streaked my first plate as a microbiologist, and that was it. I was hooked from that day. And so, it was like how do I combine my love of microbiology with my love of NASA? And I found the University of Texas medial branch down in Galveston, which has a phenomenal PhD program in microbiology in case the whole space thing didn't work out, I would have a microbiology, you know, degree from a good world-renowned program. So I was fortunate enough to, and then have that proximity, so was able to get a fellowship to do my research, my PhD research here at NASA. And then just never left. Host: Yeah. You know, I hear that narrative a lot where you go for something knowing that if you were to just stay there, you'd be happy anyway. I see that all the time. And I think it's such a good piece of advice, because if your ultimate goal is astronaut, which it is for a lot of people. Sarah Wallace: It is for a lot of people. Host: You know, you've got to take steps that if you were to no get to eventually astronaut, you would be happy for the rest of your life in whatever. I love that, yeah. I think it's a good piece of advice. Sarah Wallace: Great plan B. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: And also, you know, STEM is so important, but I always tell kids, you have to be good in all of them. Find the one you're passionate about, and if you struggle as you get into some of the harder math classes, that's okay. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Or if you struggle in, you know, you don't care about the biology, but you really like the chemistry. Whatever it is, you know, I just I think that's good too. Host: Just hang in there until you swab a plate. Sarah Wallace: Exactly. And once, it's magic once that happens. Host: I love it. I love it. You know, talking about, you know, passion for space and sort of going down this path to eventually do microbiology for NASA, there's one story that's just, it's stuck in my head. And that's last year when Hurricane Harvey happened, and gosh darn we still needed to sequence that DNA in space, you were calling Peggy Whitson from your house because we were all trapped because of the storm. Sarah Wallace: Yes. Host: How was that experience? Sarah Wallace: That, I was going to say, getting the data was probably the highlight of my life. That actually was probably the highlight of my life. So, the way we did Genes in Space-3, we did it in two separate portions so that it would be just easier to schedule and that kind of thing. So, the first part was to have Peggy collect some of those cells that were growing and put them in mini PCR. And then it can stop, and after that point, whenever there was time again, to come back and collect that. There was a little more prep she had to do to sequence it. So come back, get the DNA that had been amplified, and then finish prepping it for sequence and actually sequencing. So we had done the first part a week or two before Harvey hit. Everything went well. But of course, I'm just waiting, like knowing it's so close. Let's get these IDs. So, it gets put on the timeline for that Monday morning, and Harvey hits. And it became very apparent that the, the Center, it wasn't like you could come in. It was like you're not coming in. The Center was closed, and -- Host: The gates were under water. Sarah Wallace: Yes. Host: You literally like could not physically couldn't. Sarah Wallace: I could not. I could not leave my house. Host: Yeah, yeah. Sarah Wallace: It was awful for anyone that lives here understands. So, but me, you know, yes I'm worried about the house and the cars and all those things, my family. Should have said that first. But you know, for me it was like, we have the schedule, you know, the crew's up there. They're still doing their stuff. We need to support. So I'm usually enabled to talk them through the procedures just in case they have any questions or anything. So I usually communicate with them. I had taken my, everything home to be able to connect to the voice loops that allow us to communicate with the crew. But of course, my, the firewall was blocking my connection for my internet from home. So that's when the people at Marshall Space Flight Center, the POIC folks were like, that's it. We'll patch you through to Peggy. And Peggy, she didn't know, she just thought I was talking to her like normal. But I'm in my house, in my sweatshirt, and it's raining and cold, and on my cellphone. And I usually have video. I can usually see what the astronauts were doing. This time I did not. I was blind. Host: Wow. Sarah Wallace: So I was really, I had my procedure book. I knew where she was in the process. I knew what she was doing, so I was able to walk her through it. Went off without a hitch, like thank goodness there were no weird things that had to be troubleshooted. Everything went perfectly. And as the sequencer, what's really cool about the sequencer is as it's sequencing, you're getting the data near real time. So, I don't know if things are successful. I know what Peggy's told me. But the folks at Marshall were able to get a camera view on the Surface Pro 3 that we had running the sequencer. And they were able to get a screen shot of me that confirmed to me that it was successful. So, we knew pretty soon after Peggy had hit go on the sequencer that it was at least sequencing something that was the size of the gene we were looking to sequence. And so, that was just, that was one of the most exciting moments. And when I got that text from Marshall with that picture, I sent to, you know, my whole team. And it was just a super, super exciting moment. And it really was. It was like this, you know, not only this experiment but just science in general was not stopped because of Hurricane Harvey. And I just think that that's, being here in Houston, and I just, I think that's such a cool story. And for me personally, just because it was a huge, a huge first in space. You know, if you think about what we were doing, we took bacteria that had been collected from and cultured entirely in space, and then we sequenced them and got the AD entirely in space. So we did all of this that normally takes the whole lab off of the planet. And I mean, it was just a big huge first, and we're really excited. Host: And you still got the data in your living room on a cellphone. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: And like you said, doing it blind. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: Doing it, just reading the procedures, not getting a video feed. Sarah Wallace: Yep. Host: That's a testament to the technology, but then also, just the communications from mission control. It's a, that's a huge accomplishment really. Sarah Wallace: Thanks. And the people at Marshall, like they were, they knew that, you know, they're always running the payloads, but they knew that time especially that there just wasn't anything we could do from here. So they were awesome. Host: Yeah. Now really, I absolutely love that story. It's really, really cool. I wanted to kind of end with sort of looking ahead. You know, we're talking about a lot of stuff going on the Station, and we've definitely hinted in the beginning of the evolution of what's possible with DNA and RNA sequencing. There's just, there's so much ahead. What are some of the implications whenever we are starting to go beyond lower Earth orbit and starting to travel now deeper into space? Now you're talking about transiting to Mars on, you know, several month, several year-long missions. You're talking about going to the moon and even beyond, you know, thinking really way ahead. How is DNA sequencing and RNA sequencing really going to help you along the way? Sarah Wallace: So I think for me personally, it's going to be, it's all about the microbes. It's being able to know if a crew member has an infectious disease that we can diagnose it. If their vehicle has something, we can diagnose it. And then we can provide the proper course of remediation. Which if we're far away from Earth, that's going to be really critical that we get that data. For my friends that work on more the side of the humans and not just the microbes, I really think what we're going to start seeing is the use of this technology to monitor the way humans are responding to spaceflight, in whatever it is, if it's in terms of a certain, you know, the diet that they're eating or an exercise, you know, regime that they're doing. Whatever it is, how are they responding to it? And is it the way we think, or should it be altered and tweaked? That's the kind of thing that I'm seeing now being done, research here on Earth that, you know, hopefully it can start to be applied to NASA. And I know many of my colleagues are looking at that to really have that, you know, how is astronaut Gary responding? What do we need to do to make his response better, healthier, stronger, all of those things? Then on the turn of that, I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. So I mentioned my colleague, Dr. Aaron Burton who is the PI of the biomolecule sequencer. Host: Right. Sarah Wallace: So for me, the sequencer is the here and now with the microbes. For him, it really is this future. Is this device a first-generation device that is along the lines of what some day detects life beyond Earth? And why we're so excited about the sequencer is because, as I was describing the way it worked with that change in current. So it's not detecting DNA or RNA per se. It's detecting a biomolecule that's going through its pore. It can be anything that's going through that pore. You just need to know what the signature is and have your database to be able to match it up to. So he has colleagues, and they're working on things that are, you know, it's not like DNA or RNA as we know it. They call it XNAs, and it's something that maybe, if life weren't like what we expect it to be, this technology could detect it. So it's far out there, but you know, it's really not that far out there. If maybe this is version one of what that device some day is. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: So to be able to detect life beyond Earth, and you know, have this thing strapped to a rover or in an astronaut's hand on another planet, I think, is something that's definitely the something that folks in the astrobiology world are really excited about. Host: Yeah, maybe not identify right off the bat, but at least start to identify -- Sarah Wallace: Right. Host: and realize what this is, because. Sarah Wallace: So, just having something that you knew came from biological origin. It wasn't, you know, it came from something living, it is truly a biomolecule. Not just, you know, oh we found amino acid, but it didn't come from something living. No, this was from something living. Host: Yeah. And it has to, does some of it have to do with, and this can be a whole tangent of a conversation, but, you know, when we're talking about DNA and RNA and identifying these proteins, there's a difference between these proteins. Which I think, I forget which one, but there's a difference between left-handed and right-handed, and all the ones on Earth are one of the two, I forget. Sarah Wallace: Yes. Host: If they're left-handed or right-handed. I think left-handed proteins. Sarah Wallace: I'm not going to jump in there. Host: Okay, yeah. Sarah Wallace: And that is, that's out, if you want to do another one on taking that spin, you need Aaron Burton. That's what he does. Host: Right. Sarah Wallace: So yeah, but yes. Host: Okay. Sarah Wallace: And that's, you know. Host: Is that that XNA kind of going down that path. Sarah Wallace: So kind of. It's just, it's not the, you know, it may not be the AGTC that we're so used to seeing. It might be something totally different. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: And this, this technology could detect it. And so there's researchers out there working on ways to, you know, throw anything you can at it and see what it can detect. And also, you know, making it more robust and durable to survive a trip to Enceladus or Europa, or you know, wherever they're going. So, but I leave all that to Aaron. So. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: He can give you good answers there. Host: I just think this is a fascinating topic, not only because of what we're doing right now but then exactly what we're talking about now, what we can do in the future. For space exploration, but then also, kind of bringing it down to Earth. Sarah Wallace: Yes. Host: That would be huge if you can identify like an illness, like right off the bat, and know exactly how to treat that. There's some significant Earth benefits. Sarah Wallace: Yeah, can you imagine going to your doctor's office and right away walking away with a confirmed, it's you know, it's this. You need, you know, it's a staph infection. But not only is it I staph infection, it's resistant to these, these, these antibiotics. So we're putting you on this antibiotic. Knowing that. Just like walking away and knowing that, not needing further tests or anything like that. I really think that's kind of what this, the ease and the portability of use of this technology, I really think that's a great prime target for them is really. And I think you're going to see, you know, you're going to go to your doctor and they're, well let's just take a look at your whole genome and let's see if you are, you know, it's. You can pay right now to have it done for fun, you know, the 23 and Me. Host: Oh yeah. Sarah Wallace: But it's really, I think, might be coming. And then that gets into all kinds of ethical things. But, you know. Host: Sure. Oh yeah, if you want gene editing, and that's a whole different, that's one of those other tangents we can take and do a whole other episode. Sarah Wallace: And human genetic data is, which I love sticking with the microbes. Host: Yeah, yeah. Sarah Wallace: Yeah. All kinds of issues when you start talking about human data. Host: Well still some breakthrough stuff just going on in the world in microbes. Sarah Wallace: Absolutely. Host: Yeah, yeah. Sarah Wallace: And they're, you know, like we talked about earlier. We, it's an important thing that we do, you know. It's, if anybody's ever really had a bad night in the restroom because of food poisoning or something along those lines, and knows how extreme it can be, it's not something we want the crew to experience. Host: Oh, for sure. Sarah Wallace: And that's just one example. Host: Yeah. Well Sarah, I really just wanted to thank you for your contribution to the space program. But I'm sure you're not the only one making all these breakthroughs, are you? Sarah Wallace: Yep, no. As I've said, my colleague Dr. Aaron Burton was the PI originally, and he's still, it's really, there's been a team of four of us all the way through. So Aaron Burton, Kristen John, Sarah Stahl and myself. So really, the four of us, we've had lots of other collaborators. But we've been the four key people who have done all of this. Host: Wow. Just that small of a team making these -- Sarah Wallace: We're a small team. Host: Yeah. Sarah Wallace: Yeah. Host: Well, hey, thank you so much for your contributions. Again, to the whole team, but also to you, Sarah, for coming on the podcast today. Sarah Wallace: Thank you very much. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today we talked to Dr. Sarah Wallace about sequencing DNA and RNA in space. This was episode 49 of Houston We Have a Podcast, but they're not really in any particular order. So you can go back and listen to another episode if you want. We talked a little bit about Dr. Aaron Burton. And that was an episode called The Search for Life. You can go back and listen to when we're talking, we almost went on a tangent about the difference between left-handed proteins and right-handed proteins. We get into that a little bit in that episode The Search for Life. You can go back and listen to that. They're in no particular order. So trust me, all of them are good. And this was from a completely unbiased opinion. Otherwise, you can listen to other NASA podcasts. We have Gravity Assist up at headquarters hosted by Dr. Jim Green, if you're really into planetary science. Otherwise, we have our friends over at the Ames Research Center that have the podcast called NASA in Silicon Valley that talk about the things they're doing over there in California. And they also do some of the research aboard the International Space Station just like we do here at the Johnson Space Center. And we also talked about during this podcast our friends over at the Marshall Space Flight Center over in Huntsville, Alabama do. It's sort of a cross-center thing. But you can see some of the things that they're doing over there. If you want to know what's going on aboard the International Space Station besides DNA sequencing, NASA.gov/iss is a great place to do that. Otherwise, NASA.gov/hrp is a good place to see some of the other human research program elements that we're doing. Dr. Sarah Wallace is part of the microbiology lab here, and there's a lot of other human research aspects to, I guess, just flying humans in space but also aboard the International Space Station and beyond. On social media, we're on the International Space Station account. You guys should know this, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Go to any one of those accounts and use the hashtag ask NASA on any one of the platforms to submit an idea for the podcast. And then we'll make sure to mention it on a future episode or make a whole episode out of it. This podcast was recorded on April 17, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Isidro Reyna., Pat Ryan, Bill Stafford and Junie Hayes [phonetic]. And special thanks to Thalia Petrinos [phonetic] for writing the questions on today's episode. Thanks again to Dr. Sarah Wallace for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

Youth advocacy as a tool for environmental and policy changes that support physical activity and nutrition: an evaluation study in San Diego County.

PubMed

Linton, Leslie S; Edwards, Christine C; Woodruff, Susan I; Millstein, Rachel A; Moder, Cheryl

2014-03-27

As evidence grows about the benefits of policy and environmental changes to support active living and healthy eating, effective tools for implementing change must be developed. Youth advocacy, a successful strategy in the field of tobacco control, should be evaluated for its potential in the field of obesity prevention. San Diego State University collaborated with the San Diego County Childhood Obesity Initiative to evaluate Youth Engagement and Action for Health! (YEAH!), a youth advocacy project to engage youth and adult mentors in advocating for neighborhood improvements in physical activity and healthy eating opportunities. Study objectives included documenting group process and success of groups in engaging in community advocacy with decision makers. In 2011 and 2012, YEAH! group leaders were recruited from the San Diego County Childhood Obesity Initiative's half-day train-the-trainer seminars for adult leaders. Evaluators collected baseline and postproject survey data from youth participants and adult group leaders and interviewed decision makers. Of the 21 groups formed, 20 completed the evaluation, conducted community assessments, and advocated with decision makers. Various types of decision makers were engaged, including school principals, food service personnel, city council members, and parks and recreation officials. Eleven groups reported change(s) implemented as a result of their advocacy, 4 groups reported changes pending, and 5 groups reported no change as a result of their efforts. Even a brief training session, paired with a practical manual, technical assistance, and commitment of adult leaders and youth may successfully engage decision makers and, ultimately, bring about change.

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 22: Astronaut Health

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-12-07

[00:00:00] Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, we have a podcast! Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 22, Astronaut Health. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So on this podcast, we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all the coolest people! We bring them right here on the show to tell you about more everything NASA. So today, we're talking about astronaut health with Natacha Chough. She's a flight surgeon here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, and she gave a great description about what a flight surgeon does and how they work with astronauts to monitor their health during spaceflight. So thanks to future doctor spaceman for the suggestion on Twitter for an episode with a flight surgeon. If you have suggestions for the topic you'd like to hear on the show, let us know! You can find where to submit everything at the end of every episode. No, I'm not going to reveal it right up front, you got to listen to the whole thing. Plus, this is a really good conversation anyway. You're going to really enjoy it. So, with no further delay, let's go lightspeed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Natacha Chough. Enjoy! [00:00:59] [ Music ] [00:01:12] [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] [00:01:18] [ Music ] Host: Now, we'll -- we'll start with something happy. Natasha, thanks so much for coming on the show, ran into your profile as part of Peggy's NASA Village Project, you're one of the many people that supported Peggy Whitson, right, during her flight. So how was it -- what was it like working with the space ninja? [00:01:36] Natacha Chough: So I think as anyone who works with Peggy will tell you, she is awesome at what she does! [Laughing] And she's just a joy to watch. Plus she's a wonderful person, which just makes it even better. [00:01:46] Host: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. Just in the few interactions I've had with her where, you know, interviews or her dealing with media, just, you know, sitting down in the chair with a lot of people looking at her, lights, cameras, and she's just laughing, having a good time. It's just, you know, you really appreciate that when you're on -- when you're on the behind-the-scenes stuff and you know the pressure that goes into it. But you were -- for supporting her, you're a flight surgeon, right? [00:02:07] Natacha Chough: So I wasn't assigned to her as her crew surgeon, but I was -- after her landing, her in two fish [phonetic], I was the physician on the NASA aircraft that brought them back to Houston. [00:02:19] Host: Oh, okay. So you were out -- you were out in Kazakhstan then? [00:02:23] Natacha Chough: So, actually, this landing happened right after Harvey, and because of the multiple personnel impacts that NASA had, including to our aircraft operations division, we weren't able to get our aircraft staged in Kazakhstan in time for their landing. So, what happened was we got the help from the European Space Agency, so they had an aircraft and they went and got our crew in Kazakhstan and brought them back to Cologne, Germany, use the headquarters, and then we went to Cologne to pick up our crew there. [00:02:52] Host: Okay. [00:02:52] Natacha Chough: So that was like a total modified... [00:02:54] Host: Yeah! [00:02:55] Natacha Chough: ...expected direct return operation, yeah. [00:02:57] Host: So you went from Houston to Germany then? Okay. And you were -- so you were -- so what is -- what is that? What's a doctor on-call? [00:03:04] Natacha Chough: We call it the air doc. [00:03:07] Host: Air doc. [00:03:07] Natacha Chough: Yeah. So NASA has an aircraft that we use to bring back our crew from landing within 24 hours, and the -- the purpose of that is just so the science and research folks can get data as soon as possible once the crew returned, just because there's a lot of physiologic changes that happen. You know, not only right after landing, but in the -- the hours and days that follow. [00:03:30] Host: Okay, yeah, and you have to just kind of -- so, what's your job? Your job is to monitor it, record it, to help it? [00:03:36] Natacha Chough: We do take some samples and stuff in flight on return, but, you know, the crew can be pretty symptomatic in terms of like returning to a 1G environment, and so we kind of mitigate a lot of the symptoms that they're having, motion sickness, that type of thing, in the early hours, post-landing. [00:03:54] Host: So now you're a -- you're a flight surgeon now, right? Who's your crew members that you're working with? [00:03:59] Natacha Chough: So currently I'm assigned to Jeanette Epps, and she's launching next spring. [00:04:03] Host: Okay. Okay. So you -- what's some of the stuff you have to do this early ahead of time? [00:04:08] Natacha Chough: So right now, we just did her L minus 6 months physical, make sure that, you know, she's still within standards for long duration spaceflight. She's actually out of the country right now because in this part of the pre-launch timeframe, she and Alex [inaudible], he's a crew member, and then Sergei [inaudible], the Russian crew member, they're all serving as the backup crew to the prime crew that's launching this December. [00:04:33] Host: Oh, okay. So they're out there with Scott Tingle and [inaudible] and those guys? Okay, cool. Very cool. So you're -- you don't have to follow them for that then? You get to stay here? [00:04:43] Natacha Chough: Yeah. In the meantime, you know, there's a lot of just like pre-travel prep, making sure all of us, including the docs, are up on our immunizations for, you know, upcoming travel. In the next few months before launch, we'll also get together with her in our pharmacy, and make sure that she's got any prescription meds she takes on a regular basis put in these ISS medical accessory packs, people take, you know, nutritional supplements or daily vitamins or whatever, we make sure that all that is packed for them and any motion sickness meds they might need on the way up. [00:05:13] Host: Okay. So how long have you been in the flight director, or not flight director, flight surgeon role? [00:05:18] Natacha Chough: So I got hired on full-time here a little over two and a half years ago. [00:05:22] Host: Okay, cool. Alright. So let's -- let's back up just a little bit from -- from all this and talk about, what is a flight surgeon? Right? Let's start -- let's do that. [00:05:32] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so I got to tell you it is the coolest, yet most misleading job title there is, because we don't fly in space, and the vast -- vast majority of us aren't actual surgeons. What a flight surgeon is is a medical doctor who takes care of pilots and astronauts. But the job title is a total misnomer, it's kind of like -- I think of like the surgeon general of the United States, right? So most of these aren't actual surgeons. So for those who are listening who aren't military buffs, basically, dating back to like early wars, actual surgeons were the predominant type of medical doctor on the battlefield, and then that term has stuck in the military at NASA. And the flight part of the job title indicates, you know, that we take care of pilots and astronauts, but it also implies that we have at least some flying experience ourselves, either as private pilots, student pilots, or, you know, riding in the backseat of the T38, the NASA training jet, along with our crew members. So, that flight experience is actually key to understanding the physiology of the flight environment that our patients experience, as well as the psychology and the human factor aspect of like how they interface with engineering design and aircraft controls, and all that's especially important for maintaining crew safety. [00:06:42] Host: How about that? So what are some of the main differences then? Like what -- what separates, you know, what makes you have that flight thing? What are some of the considerations whenever I guess the human body is in flight? [00:06:54] Natacha Chough: Right. So, in flight, depending on the different types of maneuvers you're going to be doing, like if you've been to an airshow, aerobatic pilots can do, you know... [00:07:04] Host: Crazy stuff! [00:07:04] Natacha Chough: A lot of [inaudible] maneuvers, and depending on the order in which they do them, it can change, you know, blood rushing to your head versus blood rushing to your feet, and if you do that [laughing] in a very provocative way, you run the risk of what pilots refer to as graying out or blacking out and losing consciousness momentarily. So you never want those types of incapacitating events to happen in flight. And that's what we try to prevent. Another big thing that we learn about is hypoxia, right, so lack of oxygen. And so if you're cabin, for whatever reason, depressurizes and you are, you know, at the equivalent of tens of hundreds of feet, you know, above sea level, that's going to feel a lot different than a cabin that's pressurized to a more normal environment. So our regular aircraft that all of us fly commercially, like a Southwest aircraft, for example, is pressurized to 8,000 feet and most of us can tolerate that, but if you have a depressurization and all of a sudden you're at the equivalent of 30,000 feet, obviously, your time of useful consciousness, or the amount of time it's going to take before you pass out because you -- there's not enough oxygen up there at that altitude is, you know, goes down to seconds. [00:08:13] Host: Wow. [00:08:14] Natacha Chough: So those are the types of things that we have to learn about, and then, you know, we train along with crew to understand what our particular symptoms are in that situation, because it can be a little bit different for different people. Some people get a little bit loopy. Some people have spotty vision, some people get shaky, it really depends. [00:08:31] Host: Oh yeah, there's -- is that -- is it hypobaric chamber? [00:08:36] Natacha Chough: Hypobaric. Yep. [00:08:37] Host: Hypobaric, where they actually -- they'll do that, right? [00:08:39] Natacha Chough: Exactly. [00:08:40] Host: You go in there, they'll bring down the pressure, and they'll just like watch you and then write down some stuff. I actually had a friend that did that. She works in the MBL, and hers was actually -- she said she -- nothing happened to her. And I was like, oh, that's cool, and she's like, no. [00:08:55] Natacha Chough: That's actually bad. [00:08:56] Host: Yeah! Exactly! And it's because, right, you need to think about your symptoms. [00:09:00] Natacha Chough: Right. And if you don't have any symptoms, you could pass out like that, and we never want that to happen when you're at the controls of an aircraft or, you know, if you're on an EVA and that happens for whatever reason. [00:09:12] Host: Okay. So, do you understand -- when you're a flight surgeon, you understand the -- what happens for your -- the crew members that you're taking care of? [00:09:21] Natacha Chough: Right. And another thing that they do in training is a CO2 exposure class. So carbon dioxide is different on station than it is on earth, right? The levels are different. Because here on earth, if a room gets stuffy, we can just open the window, you can't really do that on station. So, crew are exposed to about 8 minutes of carbon dioxide. It's basically they're breathing into a bag and they're rebreathing their -- their own expired air during these 8 minutes. And they write down their symptoms for that, as well. And that's really important because if levels tend to creep up on station, they have an idea, from this exposure class, you know, what their symptoms are and whether it's potentially attributable to the CO2 levels on station. [00:10:06] Host: Wow. There's a lot of tests for [laughter] being a flight surgeon where they just put you through the ringer! Alright, well, we're going to deprive you of like pressure and see what happens. Alright, keep breathing your own CO2, see what happens. What other kind of tests are like that? [00:10:19] Natacha Chough: Well, I've definitely done the hypobaric -- hypobaric chamber, you know, hypoxia demonstration more times than I can count now. So I think I've lost enough brain cells at this point, but, you know, a lot of it too is -- is written tests and stuff as you're going through like medical specialty training, so. [00:10:34] Host: Okay. Because I know like they -- they do egress training for -- I've seen the ones for Orion, I think, where they actually jump in and I don't know if there's some health considerations there for where a flight surgeon would be for that test. [00:10:46] Natacha Chough: There are. So, you know, Orion is supposed to splash down in the water, and after you've been in space for a long time, that rocking motion in the spacecraft can be really provocative when you're already motion sick, and so, you know, there's certain parameters as to how much rocking we would like versus -- versus not, and, you know, what all that is going to look like. So, people way smarter than me are working on that. [00:11:10] Host: [Laughing] So, when you're -- when you're assigned a crew member, what -- at what point do you start working with them, and at what point do you kind of say, you're done, and you kind of can go onto the next crew member or something? [00:11:22] Natacha Chough: So we usually get assigned to them about a year in advance or so. [00:11:26] Host: Okay. Of their launch? [00:11:28] Natacha Chough: Of their launch. Yeah. It can be as soon as like -- as early as 18 months pre-launch. And so it definitely ramps up like exponentially the closer you get to launch. Like I mentioned, if, you know, if you're in Star City is the physician and you're supporting them through some of the Russian medical training that they do there, when they're here doing training in the MBL, the MBL during their suited run, we also support their vacuum chamber runs in Building 7, which is where they test their AVA suit and make sure that it functions at vacuum. And then there's, on the medical side, there's actually a lot of medical training that they crew get, because there's no requirement right now that there's a physician on station, but each expedition is assigned to CMOs, or chief medical officers, and those are US OS crew members who have a little bit of additional medical training, and so that can include, you know, putting in stitches or temporary dental fillings if needed, those types of things. [00:12:32] And so we've got -- we work with really talented nurses who help train our crew on how to draw their own blood, how to start IVs, all that type of thing. [00:12:40] Host: Oh, okay. And a lot of them are doing studies like that, just normally, right? [00:12:44] Natacha Chough: Some of it is research-based. [00:12:45] Host: Some research-based stuff, I guess besides the medical side, but, okay. So then you -- if they -- if there's no physician on the station, the backup is to have a physician on the ground, right? That's the -- that's the normal way of doing things, and flight surgeons sit in mission control. So is that part -- like, how often are you doing that? [00:13:05] Natacha Chough: So, when you're assigned to a mission, you're on counsel a few times out of the week and -- and that's only because you rotate with other crew surgeons who are working that same expedition. [00:13:16] Host: Oh, okay. So, you're -- it's not just you, it's like a team. [00:13:18] Natacha Chough: It's like a team of 4. Right? So like each Soyuz launch, on the NASA side at least, has one prime crew surgeon and one deputy crew surgeon who's their backup, essentially. And then it's usually two Soyuz crews at a time, and so that's what makes up the -- the four docs that kind of rotate sitting in console. [00:13:35] Host: There you go. So what are you looking at when you're on console? [00:13:38] Natacha Chough: So on console, on a regular day, we mostly focus on the -- the station, what we call the bio environmentals. I like to call it the vital signs on station. Right, so like, what's the CO2 level today? Like what's the pressure, you know, in the modules that the crew is working in, what's the O2 level? What's the temperature? What's the humidity? And then we look at their timeline everyday, so as you probably know, the schedule for each crew member is planned out to like 5 minute increments. [00:14:06] Host: Oh yeah. [00:14:07] Natacha Chough: So, there's always reviews of plans for, you know, the current day, one day out, three days out, seven days out, and so we're just verifying to make sure that, you know, everyone's got two hours of exercise blocked off that, you know, on most days, unless there's an extenuating circumstance, everyone's eating lunch together, because that's really good for, you know, crew psychology, and then making sure that there's nothing, you know, that's unnecessarily interrupting sort of their wind-down period at the end of the day before they go to sleep. It's kind of like if you got called about something for work at like 9 o'clock at night. You know what I mean? So, we try and like really minimize that kind of thing, and then, overall, we also have to approve any overages to their kind of weekly duty hours to make sure that they're not, you know, at risk of bringing out for like working too long of a week, and so if -- if that ever happens, we have weekly meetings with the flight director to make sure that that time is made up the following week, if they get a day off or some time off, subsequently. [00:15:06] Host: So you must be really close with the astronauts then, because you're the one that actually protects them from working. [00:15:10] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, the role of the flight doc these days, you know, back in World War I when flight docs were started, I feel like there was a little bit of animosity, right? [Laughing] Like between flight docs and -- and military fliers, because, you know, the best that you could ever do is come out even from an employment with your flight doc. You know, the worst that you could come out is that they would ground you for some medical reason, but these days it's a lot more -- we're definitely their advocate, right, and want to make sure that we create an environment that is conducive of them, you know, flying happily and safely and healthily. [00:15:46] Host: Yeah. I mean, what -- what is -- what does a flight surgeon do to make sure that they are in a state of mind where they can perform hundreds of experiments and -- and do all the tasks that are assigned to them on a daily basis? [00:15:58] Natacha Chough: So that's actually something that our behavioral health and performance group focuses on, and we work in consultation with them, but, essentially, we've got crew psychologists and crew psychiatrists that are assigned to each crew member, and then, you know, before their mission, they meet with them on a regular basis, and then during the mission, they have what they call PPCs, or private psychological conferences every couple of weeks, and those docs also will be in touch with the crew member's family. Especially after events like Harvey, right? Something totally unplanned and that can be a huge stressor for -- for folks on orbit and their family members on the ground. [00:16:40] Host: Oh, yeah. [00:16:40] Natacha Chough: Yeah. So, they're very good about, you know, before astronauts are even selected, like screening for people who are psychologically, you know, very stable. Once they're selected, making sure that they have all the resources that they have pre-mission, during mission, they talk about, you know, if there's bad news, how do you want it to be delivered? Who do you want to deliver the news? How do you want them to deliver it? So, that group is really, I think, paramount to crew well-being, and then keeping the family members in the loop as well with regular communication. [00:17:14] Host: So that's -- that's just not flight surgeon job then, is it? [00:17:17] Natacha Chough: No, it's more -- yeah, it's BHP. [00:17:19] Host: BHP. Yeah, exactly. What -- what qualifies an astronaut as being able to go to space, medically, healthy? [00:17:26] Natacha Chough: So, what we look for is overall medical fitness for the pressures of spaceflight, and that begins, like I mentioned, with, you know, selection criteria during the application process. So once they're selected, if they have an illness or an injury, we get them treatment and the specialty care that they need, and then we have an air medical board that actually reviews their case files on a regular basis to recertify them for flight if they happen to be grounded for whatever reason. It's actually similar to how the military and the FAA medically certify their pilots. And as a taxpayer, for those of you listening out there, so these processes are also in existence to help keep the general public safe. So, in general, the FAA has a role to keep the risk of a pilot having an incapacitating medical event to less than 1 percent. [00:18:15] Host: Alright. [00:18:17] Natacha Chough: So, we kind of follow very similar standards. But in order for crew to stay healthy, essentially, they have to train, right? So, like I mentioned, we work with really talented physical trainers, psychiatrists, psychologists, pharmacists, nurses, to make sure that our crew are not only physically and mentally ready for long-duration spaceflight, but they're also capable to administer medical care to each other if necessary. [00:18:45] Host: Okay, are you overseeing their -- their workouts and stuff like that? Or is that a totally different thing? [00:18:50] Natacha Chough: So that's the job of our ACERS, so those are astronaut strength, conditioning, and rehab specialists, it's their personal trainers, essentially. So when crew go to orbit, they are actually given what we call an exercise prescription. And they've got different goals that they can work towards and -- and modify if needed in space, and all of that, essentially, is part of our -- it's actually I think one of our most successful countermeasures, right, is maintaining your bone and muscle mass. So we know that maintaining your muscle mass with resistive exercises and getting some sort of impact exercise, like on the treadmill, is really helpful in preventing bone loss and muscle weakness post-flight. [00:19:30] Host: Yeah, definitely. What about -- you said there was a pharmaceutical component to there, are they making sure that they get doses of certain medicines to stay healthy? Like, I don't know if they do calcium supplements or something like that? [00:19:41] Natacha Chough: So, we actually, yeah, we have a great pharmacy here at JSC, and pharmacy helps pack any, you know, regular prescription meds that people fly with, and in addition, you know, they can let us know, there's been some research, there hasn't been enough, but, you know, certain meds just don't do well in space for reasons that we still don't completely understand. So, some -- some medications, if they're in liquid form, will bubble or foam too much to be of any use in space. It's harder to draw them up in a syringe, because you don't have that air -- same air, fluid separation that you do with gravity. So we can't fly those meds, because it's -- it wouldn't be useful. [00:20:19] Host: Right, but they're probably meds that you would need, right? So is there a workaround? [00:20:24] Natacha Chough: So there are alternative meds that we can fly instead, in the meantime, and then we also have medical kits on station with Tylenol and ibuprofen and things like that, if people happen to -- to need those during their mission. [00:20:34] Host: So those -- that's kind of the essential, like, if you're going to fly, this is probably what you're going to need, you know, like the -- stuff like that, just in case some small thing were to come up, oh, I got a slight headache, boom, good to go. [00:20:45] Natacha Chough: Exactly. [00:20:45] Host: Okay, cool. What else besides Tylenol, I guess, that they would -- that they would need? [00:20:49] Natacha Chough: There's antibiotics onboard. If there's, you know, any sort of infection, but it's also, you know, kind of like what you have in your kitchen -- kitchen cabinet. Or, sorry, in your bathroom cabinet [laughing], so Pepto, you know, those types of things. [00:21:03] Host: Okay, cool! [00:21:04] Natacha Chough: But the quarantine process is actually pretty interesting. So I haven't been through that yet myself. I'm the prime doc for Jeanette, so I'll be in quarantine with her, but essentially we go from Star City, Russia, you know, where they train with the Russians, and the entire crew then flies down to Baikonur, Kazakhstan together. And then the prime crew and their prime docs will be in quarantine in Kazakhstan for about two weeks leading up to launch, and so everyday, you know, we take temperatures and do a quick physical exam and there's a Russian epidemiologist down there who's really strict about, you know, who he lets in to visit the crew and stuff, so no kids under 12, that type of thing. And anyone who does want to visit the crew has to, you know, have, you know, written evidence of like 3 days of like no fevers, and... [00:21:54] Host: Wow! [00:21:55] Natacha Chough: Yeah [laughing]. [00:21:56] Host: Alright, pretty -- I mean, it is strict for that reason. Right? They don't want to bring anything up there. So what's the -- have you been in the quarantine environment? [00:22:03] Natacha Chough: No, this will be -- I've visited it, but I haven't stayed there. [00:22:06] Host: Oh. So for Gen X launch, that will be the first time you're going to -- you're going to do it. Okay. [00:22:11] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so I've toured it. There's like a gym, you know, there's a place where they eat meals together and they have folks who are in quarantine with them, like cooks who stay there and cook for them, as well. [00:22:22] Host: Who have also gotten the check? [00:22:24] Natacha Chough: Exactly. Yep. [00:22:25] Host: So it's like a little place for them to live for how long? [00:22:29] Natacha Chough: About two weeks. [00:22:30] Host: Two weeks? Oh, wow. Okay, that's longer than I thought. Yeah, because, you know, you don't want anything to develop, how about that? [00:22:36] Natacha Chough: Right. And then, you know, obviously, flu vaccinations, depending on what time of year you're launching are important for everyone, going down range, to have as well. [00:22:44] Host: Absolutely. Alright, so then they're quarantined and then they go up to the International Space Station. You said they have very limited training when it comes to -- that, you know, they can do small things, but what sorts of things do you prepare for and prepare your crew members for for an emergency? [00:22:59] Natacha Chough: So, actually, they go through what we call megacode training, and so this would be like worst-case scenario, right, like if someone needs CPR. So, we work, again, with our -- our nurse trainers, typically they're nurses with ER backgrounds, and then the flight surgeon, as well, is watching the crew kind of go through this training after they've had a few sessions of hands-on, you know, training with us prior. So, and this is done in the -- the ISS mockup actually. And so we have an AAD [phonetic] on station, if needed. And so they run through, you know, a very modified, but basic algorithm that they would go through in that situation. [00:23:34] Host: Alright. So, okay, and -- and -- in this situation, are you on console helping them out? [00:23:40] Natacha Chough: Yes. So we would, you know, we always have a crew surgeon on console during normal working hours, and then we're on call the rest of the time when we're assigned to that mission. So, if we're not sitting in console on a regular shift, we would get called in for that. [00:23:56] Host: Alright. So no vacations then. You got to stick around in case someone gets pulled in, but that's good, right? Because then, you know, the crew members flying know that, alright, in case of an emergency, I know my -- my flight surgeon's going to be there. So whenever you're designing, you know, procedures, I guess, to do, do you, you know, practice knowing about microgravity? Like, okay, the AAD is going to have to -- we're going to have to do it this way because, you know, you can't just lay someone down, maybe strap them down or something like that? [00:24:24] Natacha Chough: Right. So we actually have a crew medical restraint system on station. And so, the crew know, you know, to put an incapacitated crew member there so that, you know, they don't float away. It's a lot different than it would be on earth. And so, yes, all our procedures are written to -- to account for the microgravity environment. [00:24:40] Host: Okay. Cool. Is there any -- any concerns from the flight surgeon area? Some unique things that flight surgeons in -- at NASA have to deal with that maybe other flight surgeons in the military don't have to worry about because of the microgravity environment? [00:24:55] Natacha Chough: So the biggest thing I'd say, like you mentioned, is, you know, medications, especially like liquids that don't separate from air, and so we're still trying to figure out, you know, how to -- how to work around that [inaudible] is that we do want to fly, but currently can't. [00:25:08] Host: Okay. So it's really just the limitations that... [00:25:10] Natacha Chough: Yeah, and so, you know, they're -- they're industry filters and stuff that -- that neonatal ICUs and that type of thing have worked with and could potentially be helpful. [00:25:20] Host: Cool. So, flight surgeons, I'm trying to think about like your -- your total duties, and they seem -- they seem pretty widespread, right? Like, so you're working with the crew before they launch, when they launch, in mission control, you even talked about some travel, right? You were flying out to Germany, have you been to Kazakhstan or Russia too? [00:25:39] Natacha Chough: Yeah. So, I'm one of the contractor docs, and so part of my job is to be in Star City, Russia where the crew train on Soyuz systems. And so I'm there two to three months out of the year. And that's actually really fun, I kind of like that, it's a very, like, family environment and the crew get together at night and we have family dinners and things like that. [00:26:01] Host: Oh, wow! So it's nice and tightknit. Like, family dinners where? Where they're staying? [00:26:05] Natacha Chough: Yeah, where they're staying. [00:26:06] Host: Okay. [00:26:07] Natacha Chough: Yep. And then -- so I've been to Russia for that and then, yes, I've been to Kazakhstan for a landing as -- as the air doc again on the NASA aircraft. [00:26:16] Host: Cool. NASA aircraft. So that -- was that the G3? [00:26:21] Natacha Chough: It was the G3, now it's G5. [00:26:23] Host: G5. Okay, so then that's the one they take from -- from where to where? [00:26:28] Natacha Chough: From Kazakhstan to Houston, and that's the direct return, what we call direct return within 24 hours of Soyuz landing. [00:26:33] Host: Oh, okay. So you're just watching the recently-landed astronauts and kind of taking care of them? Very cool. Did you take some of the helicopters out to the landing site and all that? [00:26:43] Natacha Chough: I have not actually . So I was on a Russian helicopter for Kate Rubins' launch, I was her deputy crew surgeon. And so for launch, the prime crew doc is, you know, near the launch site with the guest and family members, and then the backup doc, or the deputy doc, which was myself, is in a Russian surgeon rescue helicopter in the event that there's any sort of like launch abort scenario. We would be the ones to fly out to wherever the capsule would have aborted to. [00:27:13] Host: Oh, okay! First responders, boom, you're going. Alright. But you actually did -- you said you flew in the helicopter for Kate Rubins' landing? [00:27:20] Natacha Chough: So you -- they have the blades spinning, but you're staying on the tarmac until you get verification that they've reached orbit. [00:27:28] Host: Okay. [Laughing] Very cool. So what do you have to -- what do you have to study? What do you have to do to be a flight surgeon? Like what's your background? [00:27:35] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so my background is emergency medicine. And then to work at a NASA as a flight surgeon, you need to do an additional residency, and that's medical [inaudible] for specialty training [laughter]. And that residency has to be in aerospace medicine, not flight surgery, that's not a thing. So the expectation, essentially, is that you're a competent physician in whatever your chosen specialty is. [00:28:01] Host: Okay. [00:28:01] Natacha Chough: Before you pursue aerospace medicine because it's such a small and specialized field. I get a lot of questions actually from med students asking what they should specialize in if they want to become a NASA flight surgeon, and I always say, just choose what you love. Because if you love it, you're going to do it better, and that's what people are going to notice, and that's when doors are going to open to you. Because we've had neurologists, urologists, OB/GYNs, become flight surgeons and work here. So it's all about what you enjoy doing. [00:28:26] Host: Yeah, because they're really good, and you said yours was emergency medicine? [00:28:29] Natacha Chough: Yep. [00:28:29] Host: So what was -- what was that -- what were you doing before -- before NASA then in emergency medicine? [00:28:34] Natacha Chough: I actually went straight from emergency medicine residency to the UTMB Aerospace Medicine training program. [00:28:40] Host: Oh, okay. [00:28:41] Natacha Chough: So, yeah, I was just working, you know, 60 to 80 hours a week... [00:28:44] Host: Wow! Alright. [00:28:45] Natacha Chough: ....in the hospital before -- before doing the aerospace program. [00:28:49] Host: Alright. So then what was the aerospace program, how did that -- how do you translate emergency medicine into an aerospace environment? Like, what was different? [00:28:57] Natacha Chough: How did I transition it? I guess the emergency part applies to aerospace medicine in the event of, you know, like a mishap. So -- or planning for a mishap, but not necessarily hoping that that's what happens, right? So it's all about preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. So, emergency medicine, background-wise, can help you figure out what equipment you might need to pack or what equipment you can leave behind. What type of personnel and staffing and other resources you might need at different stages of like a rescue scenario. [00:29:31] Host: Yeah, because I guess you would have to operate assuming that you might have to do something maybe on a site, you know, so you're going to have to bring everything with you or something like that. [00:29:39] Natacha Chough: And you always have to think one step ahead, right? So like let's say I do this first step and it works, but then something else, you know, changes with the patient after that. Then what do I do? And so you have to kind of work out these mental algorithms instead, every possible scenario. [00:29:55] Host: And then from there, you kind of came into the world of NASA, I guess, through... [00:30:01] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so the UTMB Aerospace Medicine program is actually joint with NASA, and so we do some of our rotations here when we are in training, and so one of the ones is working -- is rotating through the flight medicine clinic. And so you're doing some of the astronaut physicals at that time. And then you've got other projects, operationally, that are given to you by different preceptors and mentors. One of my favorite ones was actually doing a one-month rotation with the BHP psychologists and psychiatrists. Just because it's not my specialty, and so I still find it like super interesting though to -- to work with them and see, you know, the types of issues that they deal with, and then interface with the -- the operational flight docs. [00:30:45] Host: Alright, very cool! And now -- now you're here at NASA, now you're a flight surgeon, what's -- it seems like, you know, like I said before, your duties are widespread and you're all over the place, but what's like a -- what's like a day-to-day sort of in the life of a flight surgeon? [00:31:01] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so, it's funny, people are always asking, like, what's a typical day for you? And I'm like, well, I -- I wouldn't say we have typical days, I would say we have typical weeks, but everyday can be a little bit different. So, we are in an engineering community, right? So we're the minority and a lot of times we're looked to as medical consultants, and with station being as complex of a program as it is, there are a lot of meetings with all these different disciplines to make sure that we're doing the right thing and maintaining the health and safety of the crew at the top. So, a lot of times, you know, I'll have a day that's nothing but meetings [laughing], with, you know, potentially questions for me about making, you know, just verifying that like what we're doing isn't medically contraindicated or unsafe in any way. You know, another day I might have my crew member doing a suited run in the MBL and so I'll be there observing that. You know, and another day I might have a couple of meetings in the morning and then in the afternoon my crew member will have some training, medical training, that I'll be attending and just making sure if they have any questions that I'm there. [00:32:05] Host: Okay. Yeah, it seems like your role is more -- is more operational, right? So if something's happening, like, boom, you're there. So, the Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory, that's a good one, right? That one's where the astronauts actually get suited up and practice doing a spacewalk in the pool. [00:32:19] Natacha Chough: Exactly. [00:32:19] Host: Right? So what's -- what's your role? Do you go behind the scenes and kind of check them out beforehand and afterwards? Or is it more you're just kind of standing by watching? [00:32:26] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so everyone who goes in the pool gets a dive physical beforehand. [00:32:29] Host: Dive physical, okay. [00:32:30] Natacha Chough: And then during the run, which is typically about 6 hours, I'll be on the loop just listening and making sure, you know, if there's any medical concerns, they can always request a private loop with the MBL medical director. But as their assigned flight surgeon, it's always good for us to be there, as well, just so we're aware of any issues. [00:32:48] Host: Yeah. Privacy is pretty important when it comes to this stuff, right? [00:32:51] Natacha Chough: Absolutely. [00:32:51] Host: Absolutely, yeah. So that -- your job is kind of -- is kind of like that, right? Whatever you do, you have to make sure that you are protecting the privacy of the astronaut's medical information. So, how does that work I guess in an environment where everyone's talking to each other? Especially in mission control. [00:33:10] Natacha Chough: Yeah. I guess it's not too different from the hospital environment. I think, you know, there are people who interface with us, for example, a biomedical engineer who have essentially [inaudible] of like, you know, a HIPAA, understanding of the HIPAA laws and medical privacy laws and privacy act. [00:33:27] Host: Oh, because they're hearing some of this information too? [00:33:29] Natacha Chough: Right. And, you know, the -- the ones who are involved in these types of conversations are involved because it's a need-to-know basis. And so that's essentially how we operate. [00:33:37] Host: Okay, cool. And you guys have private medical conferences with the astronauts too, right? Like every once in a while, you're checking in. So that's -- is it more of just that? It's just checking in, seeing how everything's going? [00:33:49] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so it's once a week, and it's for about 15 minutes, and it's a video conference direct to station with a crew member on a private loop, and, you know, it's all documented in -- in the chart, the medical chart, from that encounter, will go into the electronic medical record, and so we can always look back and see if there's something that we've been tracking over time, you know, how it's been progressing, but it is mostly a check-in, but, you know, every once in awhile, something will pop up. We know that there are slight immune system changes in space, so, people can get rashes or, you know, just feel stuffier, have allergy-type symptoms. And so a lot of times that's what we deal with. [00:34:31] Host: Okay. So it's -- how much of it is, you know, I guess you're recording, just checking in, and then, you know, sometimes you're going to have to deal with stuff like that, right? So how do you deal with it when you're down here in mission control, but your patient is up in space. [00:34:46] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so that's the art of telemedicine, right, is you can't see and touch and feel your patient yourself. And so we rely on their preflight medical training that we talked about. So they're taught to use, you know, how to use a stethoscope, how to take a blood pressure, how to measure heart rate, that type of thing, and then we have the magic of camera technology up there, so, you know, they can actually look in their crewmates ear and take a picture of what that eardrum looks like and send it down to us. Or they can just take a picture of a rash that's developed and send that down to us, and then, you know, during the private medical conference, we can ask all the other questions, we want to know, how long has it been there, and, you know, is it getting better or worse and what makes it better or worse, those types of things. [00:35:29] Host: Are the things that are normal for spaceflight, like, are there particular, you know, microgravity rashes or something like that that's just typical for being in a space environment or something like that? [00:35:41] Natacha Chough: Rashes can develop, yeah, so that's probably not uncommon, and it's because airflow on station is different than on earth, right? Like particles have weight to them here and there's constant airflow that moves things to different areas. So air doesn't -- heavier molecules don't dissipate or, you know, sink the same way on station. If you're staying motionless, the air particles around you are just going to heat up and you kind of have this like cloak of warmth, right? Or... [00:36:13] Host: Woah! [00:36:14] Natacha Chough: Another example would be if you unpacked something and it had, you know, particles of dust, the dust isn't going to like fall to the ground. [00:36:24] Host: Oh, it's going right up. Yeah. [00:36:25] Natacha Chough: So eye complaints can be a common thing that we hear about after something like that. So we've got protective equipment up there. If -- if we think something's going to be particularly hazardous for them to open or unpack, we recommend that they wear goggles and that type of thing. [00:36:39] Host: Wow! I would not have thought the -- like a heat shield, I guess, that's -- like happening because of the [inaudible]. That's interesting. [00:36:46] Natacha Chough: It's actually documented in Lost Moon, Jim Lovell's book about Apollo 13, when they had to turn a lot of the power systems off, it was really cold in there, but they found if they didn't move around as much, their body heat actually heated the air particles around them. [00:37:02] Host: Woah! [Laughter] That is wild to think about! So that's what I was talking about when I was asking, like, what are some of the microgravity things that are just different? That's perfect! That's exactly what I was -- I would have never thought, like, so -- so if you just stay still, you stay warm, because you're kind of moving, it's just a different air environment. How about that? So I guess are you the one in charge, though, if they are unpacking something, for example? Like, you say, hey, you definitely have to wear goggles for this or something like that? [00:37:31] Natacha Chough: It actually depends on who owns the hardware. But there's a lot of other system interfaces that I'm not privy to that I think come into play, and the biomedical engineer helps us out with that, as well. So they kind of -- biomedical engineers essentially are what -- we call them the nuts and bolts, they work with the nuts and bolts of medical hardware, right? So if the ultrasound machine breaks, they troubleshoot that. If the human breaks for whatever reason, like that's our job, we're the blood and guts. [00:37:58] Host: [Laughing] The blood and guts. [00:37:59] Natacha Chough: Yeah, but the rashes, going back to the rashes, so the -- the reason sometimes rashes develop is, so, back to our example of unpacking something that's new, maybe it's off gassing some sort of particles and those particles, if they're not circulating in the air the same way that they do on earth, can sort of linger in one space, maybe near your skin or something, and that sort of exposure with I guess not as efficient airflow as you would have on earth may make the skin react a little bit. But there's also, like I mentioned, some immune changes that happen and some rashes and allergy-type symptoms can be related to that, as well. [00:38:36] Host: Oh, because your immune system isn't operating as -- as much so you react, I guess, a little bit more? [00:38:42] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so we -- that's something we don't totally understand yet. And even on earth, the immune -- immunology is one of the least understood medical specialties out there. Things are always changing. [00:38:53] Host: See, I don't understand why I get a flu shot sometimes, and then a month later I get the flu! [Laughter] I don't understand. I should be completely protected! And I know there's, like, you know, changes in strands or something. So, anyway, but, yeah, no, a lot of different things to -- to think about, I guess, from -- from your end, especially just -- that's a totally different world. Are you -- are you measuring some of these things over -- over time? And then understanding trends? Like, are there certain trends that you've seen just from studying astronauts in space for so long? [00:39:26] Natacha Chough: So we've got a group of epidemiologists, and then folks on the research side who are studying particular, you know, body systems, for example, like you're in chemistry or whatnot, those are the ones who are typically measuring those types of trends. [00:39:40] Host: Okay. [00:39:40] Natacha Chough: Yeah. And so anything that goes into our electronic medical record, we can have the epidemiologists look at and they can, you know, identify trends and they can control for changes in like the CAT scan machine that was used from this mission to this mission, and control for age or gender or whatnot, and so it's a lot of number crunching and, you know, doing statistics and making sure that any trends or changes that we're seeing are statistically significant. [00:40:05] Host: Okay, yeah. Because I know, like, you know, just understanding, like just basic, when you go to space, this is something that happens sort of things. Right? So your immune system gets a little bit weaker, your -- your muscles and bones start to, you know, get a little bit weaker and disappear so you have to build it back up and do this exercise all the time. Just medical things that you have to think about, you know, the human body, how it reacts to space. And these are things, these are lessons that we can take to missions beyond low-earth orbit too, right, to -- to station, our past station to, you know, the moon, deep space, Mars, all of that stuff. So how is the role of a flight surgeon going to change as we -- as the communication starts to get a little bit, you know, longer. Because when we go out to Mars, you're talking about when earth and Mars are at their farthest point away from each other, that's like a 40-something minute round trip for communication. [00:41:01] Natacha Chough: Yeah. Yeah, so, and the question is, right, like, do you then have a requirement to have a doctor onboard? And not only that, but what if the doctor is the one who is sick and becomes the patient, then what? Right? Because when you fly in an aircraft, you've got a pilot and a co-pilot, but if you've only got one doctor, I don't know, like, is it enough for someone else to, you know, be trained as a mid-level provider, like a physician assistant or a nurse practitioner or is it enough to have just in time, like on-orbit, you know, refresher training videos for a non-physician to be able to do a medical procedure? Do we need, you know, minimally-invasive surgery type capabilities on these spacecrafts? And those are all questions that, like I said, people way smarter than me are -- are looking into and challenges that we still need to address. [00:41:51] Host: Wow. Yeah, because there's -- there's a lot of different considerations. We just did a podcast pretty recently with Orion, and they were talking about just, like, for example, oxygen or something, right, like oxygen is super important to have on the spacecraft, but you can only put so many oxygen generators on the spacecraft before it becomes a little bit, okay, let's -- let's calm down. You know, because you have backups, but you can't just make -- keep making backups until you're perfectly fine. So the same with the physician's, right? You can't just have, like, an army of doctors going to space because, you know, it's just you need those other things, right, you can have a doctor, but then you need -- if you're doing Mars exploration, maybe a geologist, maybe an engineer, maybe a pilot, you know, you need all of the above, nice like diverse group of -- of astronauts who can do -- do it all in the -- in one mission. [00:42:40] Natacha Chough: Yeah, and I think also the -- the crew psychology is going to change a little bit. [00:42:45] Host: Oh yeah. [00:42:46] Natacha Chough: And so, you know, people have talked about, what's the ideal crew make up? Should they all be all one gender, should they have an even number versus an odd number? Because if you have an even number and you have a disagreement and you vote on something, what do you do if you have a tie? But if you have an odd number of crew members and there's one person who's the tiebreaker, are they then sort of, you know, like labeled as... [00:43:08] Host: Yeah. [00:43:09] Natacha Chough: You know? [00:43:09] Host: She's inside [inaudible] that guy or something. [00:43:11] Natacha Chough: And then there's questions about what kind of -- what degree of assertiveness or leadership do you want your commander versus someone who fosters more equality in community in a multi month, like, transit phase from earth to Mars, where there's not a lot going on, so do you really want somebody who's like super dominant on you all the time about something... [00:43:31] Host: Yeah. [00:43:31] Natacha Chough: ...when there's not a lot of operational things happening. [00:43:35] Host: Yeah. [00:43:35] Natacha Chough: Yeah, so a lot of -- a lot of factors there are going to be in play, but I think crew psychology and wellness is going to be huge. [00:43:43] Host: Oh yeah. I would assume that whatever crew they choose to do these deep space missions, they're going to be, you know, be able to do it all in a sense. They'll be super qualified people that have multiple disciplines, and when with the most recent astronaut class, that's reflected there too. You've got doctors with flight time, you've got Navy Seals slash doctor, you have, to know, an engineer in four different disciplines, so, you know, you got all of these people that can -- that can do it all. It's pretty cool. [Laughing] I guess from a flight surgeon perspective, you'd probably go more towards the -- the redundancy in doctor ability, like a doctor and then someone trained mid-level with the doctor, physician? [00:44:26] Natacha Chough: Potentially. Yeah, I mean, I guess I haven't really thought about it too much. I was just kind of like throwing out ideas, but [laughter], I mean, it's always good, you know, to have backups and potentially backups to your backup, so. [00:44:38] Host: So how about whenever, I mean, you know, we're going -- we're going out, way out into space, but I'm going to pull back for just a second. Like, your first -- your first time going out over to overseas, to support like a crew thing. I'm only asking -- I'm asking this selfishly because I'm about to go over to Kazakhstan myself. So what was -- what was that like, that experience of -- of, you know, working with the crew before a launch or after a landing or your first time? [00:45:05] Natacha Chough: So it actually felt very natural to me, and I think part of the reason is because I was a Peace Corp volunteer like before I went to medical school, and I was -- I lived in that region of the world. So I was doing service in Turkmenistan, and so to be in Kazakhstan was almost like coming home. So I felt very comfortable and part of that experience really turned me onto the International Space Station program because of the international cooperation part of it. So going over there was actually really fun for me, I really enjoyed it. And as to like the actual pre-launch experience, so as the deputy crew surgeon, for my first mission, your job is to take care of the family and launch guests that are invited. And so, you know, some folks aren't frequent international travelers, and Kazakhstan is fairly remote, so, you know, if you've got medical conditions, you know, I was trying to remind people to bring all their prescription meds that they're going to need, because we don't always necessarily have what they're going to need. We do carry a small medical pack with us with some like sleep meds and, you know, allergy meds, that type of thing, in case it's needed. [00:46:13] And then really it's just getting to know them, getting to make sure that your prime surgeon who's locked in quarantine has everything they need. If not, you know, we can arrange to -- to have extra supplies brought into them, you know, medically, if -- if they need something. And then the day of launch, depending on what time you launch, this may happen earlier or later, but I got up super early with our, you always have a nurse with you when you're going out into the field, and so we had the search and rescue forces pick us up in a van, and we went to the remote airport where their helicopter was staged to stay on the helicopter and wait for launch, and then once we got word that the crew had reached orbit, then the helicopter blade stops spinning and then we just go back to the hotel. So I -- on an ideal day, on launch, you're actually not doing too much, because things are working as they should. [00:47:08] Host: Right. Because your job is to be there, like, the helicopter blade spinning is the perfect analogy to, you know, if something goes wrong, you're getting in the helicopter. Right? That is your job. Otherwise, the blade stops spinning. So, that's exactly, cool. Wow, alright, a lot of -- a lot of cool stuff to do as a flight surgeon. Is there anything I missed about flight surgery, because a lot of this is very foreign to me because I, you know, medical stuff goes like right over my head [laughing], but I try -- I try to do my best to kind of summarize everything into something that's, you know, that we can tell out to the world and that makes a lot of sense and kind of encapsulates the story of astronaut health. [00:47:50] Natacha Chough: Oh, so there was one thing I was going to say. So, and this is kind of like a misconception that I think is important to clear up for folks out there who are interested in becoming a flight surgeon or who are in medical school. [00:48:00] Host: Yeah. [00:48:01] Natacha Chough: So, some flight surgeons have gone on to become astronauts, and subsequently flown in space, but they're in the minority. So being a flight surgeon is not a shortcut to becoming an astronaut, I'm sorry if I'm crushing any dreams out there, but we get to do a lot of what an astronaut does, except fly in space. So we're with them for a lot of the training they do, and, you know, while space is, no doubt, the best part of being an astronaut, it's a pretty small percentage of their career, so, like, I don't feel too bad about my job, I actually love my job, and it's -- there's another doc in our group who refers to it as being like, taking care of Lewis and Clark. And so I think that's totally appropriate and it's super rewarding. We are one of the first faces they see, you know, on landing. So if you see the -- the PAO shots of the crew getting pulled out of the Soyuz, we're like the, you know, the other person in the blue flight suit in the corner [laughing], making sure they're okay along with our -- we've got great Russian field medical nurses that help us out with taking vitals and all of that, so. [00:48:58] Host: That's right. You're there for every step of the way, except on the International Space Station. [00:49:02] Natacha Chough: That is okay. [00:49:03] Host: Yeah, that's -- oh, really, you wouldn't want to -- you wouldn't want to fly? [00:49:07] Natacha Chough: Oh, no, I just mean, you know, this job is so rewarding for me as is that I'm happy as a clam. [00:49:13] Host: Hey, yeah, you can't complain, because you're doing -- you're doing some really, really cool stuff. That's really awesome. Yeah, well if you -- if you do, you know, want to be a flight surgeon slash astronaut, there -- is it -- is it Kell Lindgren [phonetic]? [00:49:26] Natacha Chough: Kjell. [00:49:26] Host: Kjell Lindgren, yeah, Kjell Lindgren was a flight surgeon turned astronaut, right? [00:49:31] Natacha Chough: And Mike Beret, Tom Marshburn, and then Serena Aunon-Chancellor [phonetic] next year. [00:49:36] Host: What? Oh, all of them? [00:49:37] Natacha Chough: They were all previously flight surgeons. [00:49:39] Host: Ahhh, so you say it's low, but there's quite a few [laughter], there's quite a few! And, you know, definitely a medical doctor, I think, would be up there for someone who's essential on a deep space mission. I definitely think, you know, for missions beyond, they're going to be -- they're going to be up there. Because the human body is like -- it's one of the things we're focusing on when we're doing studies on the International Space Station, right? Like, studies on the human body, but then it's going to be a huge factor for missions beyond, because there's different things you have to worry about. [00:50:09] Natacha Chough: And we're the most annoying variable, I would say, right? Like, to -- to an engineer's who's focused on, you know, the spacecraft and things being like within binary ranges, we have the most variables within our physiologic system to -- to have the potential to drive folks crazy. So sometimes we'll get questions, you know, like, well, what's, you know, how low can this temperature be, or whatever, like, well, it depends. It depends on, you know, [laughing] all these different factors. And so I know that's -- that's hard to hear sometimes. So, you know, we have to -- to bound the question appropriately and then, you know, start from a place that's, you know, medically, ethically, you know, safe for the crew, and then that's your starting point to -- to work from there. [00:50:51] Host: Yeah. Yeah, and it's just -- it's got to be so cool just working with an astronaut throughout the whole thing. Have you ever done the 0 gravity flight? [00:50:58] Natacha Chough: Yes! Yep, that's part of our training as well. [00:51:00] Host: Alright! So that's -- so that's pretty close to space, right? [00:51:03] Natacha Chough: Yeah. [00:51:03] Host: You kind of feel the microgravity. [00:51:06] Natacha Chough: It's for 30 -- about 30 seconds at a time. Yeah, it's pretty much exactly how I imagined it like in my dreams as a kid. It was actually super fun, and it's -- it felt like Christmas [laughing]. That's like the best way I can describe it. [00:51:18] Host: Wow. Did you -- were you there as a flight surgeon like with an astronaut, or were you there for something else? [00:51:24] Natacha Chough: I was there as like an aerospace medicine resident in training. It was sort of just like an exposure flight for me. [00:51:31] Host: Yeah [laughing]. [00:51:31] Natacha Chough: It was super fun! [00:51:33] Host: Alright. Something definitely cool to get exposed to, right? That's like a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing. That's pretty cool. [00:51:40] Natacha Chough: I'll take that over the, you know, losing brain cells in the hypoxia chamber [laughter]. [00:51:43] Host: Yeah! Unfortunately, that's something you've done multiple times. Multiple 0 gravity flights would be pretty cool. Alright. Alright, well, Natacha, thanks so much for coming on the show. I think this was a nice -- nice overview of what a flight surgeon does and how it helps in, you know, every step of the way for Lewis and Clark, I love that analogy, that's perfect. So, thanks for coming on the show and talking about what a flight surgeon does. [00:52:03] Natacha Chough: Thanks for having me! [00:52:04] Host: Very cool. [00:52:05] [ Music ] [00:52:14] [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] Host: Hey! Thanks for sticking around. So today we talked with Dr. Natacha Chough about her role as a flight surgeon and what that has to do with astronaut health. If you want to know what's going on in the role of human research and how that applies to spaceflight, NASA,gov/hrp is a great resource for all of that. Everything human research and how that applies to spaceflight. If you go to NASA.gov/iss, you can figure out all the stuff going on on the International Space Station, and a lot of that has to do with some of the human research we're doing, as we talked about it in this episode. Otherwise, on social media, you can follow us Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, follow the International Space Station accounts, they're verified and, you know, we got a lot of followers, so you can find us pretty easily. But just use the hashtag, AskNASA, on any one of those platforms, if you want to ask a question about the show, and actually that's where I found the recommendation for this show, is actually on Twitter. [00:53:19] So, I'm paying attention to all of that, just make sure to mention it's for Houston, we have a podcast, and then -- and then we'll go from there! So, the credits for today go to John [inaudible] and Alex [inaudible]. Thanks again to Dr. Natacha Chough for coming on the show this week. This podcast was recorded on November 15th. We'll be back next week!

HWHAP_Ep4_Space Food

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-07-28

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 4, Space Food. I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host today. So this is the podcast where we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all the coolest people that tell you all the coolest parts about NASA. So today we're talking about space food with Takiyah Sirmons, she's a food scientist here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. And we had a great discussion about the science behind what astronauts eat, what it is, how they make it and how they have a long shelf life and what happens to an astronaut's palate after living in space for several months. So with no further delay let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Takiyah Sirmons, enjoy. [ Music ] Host: Okay, well Takiyah thank you so much for taking the time to come here today and talk about space food. This is one of my favorite topics because it's space food, right. Right, when you think about astronauts you think about what do they eat in space and then you have all these preconceived notions about what they eat in space. And so I thought first of all I think we should start the episode before we even get into anything by just debunking a couple of myths, right. Takiyah Sirmons: Let's debunk those myths. Host: Let's debunk it right off the bat, did NASA invent Tang? Takiyah Sirmons: NASA did not invent Tang. Tang was already in existence, it was created in the late 50s by a company called Mission Foods and we flew it in the early 60s when we were trying to figure out our food system. So John Glenn tasted Tang in space and it boosted its popularity and ever since then it's been synonymous with the space program but we did not create it, we just purchased it, repackaged it and then sent it into space. Host: See I feel like that's just always one of those things people always bring up though. They say oh Tang that's such a NASA thing and I guess they just got tied together for whatever reason. But they did use Tang. Takiyah Sirmons: We did use Tang, we still use Tang. We still use Tang until today but we did not invent it, we did not. Host: It's just because of that rehydratable, the idea that you don't have to ship up these bags of water, you can just ship up bags of powder. Takiyah Sirmons: Yah, powder flavored essentially so it's already convenient, you just put it into the beverage, package and you add water to it and you have a great flavored beverage. And it worked we don't try to reinvent the wheel here and we had a product that was on the market that was great so we just sent it. Host: All right, cool, all right there's one more that at least comes to the top of my head and you might be able to add a couple more but astronaut ice cream. Takiyah Sirmons: Oh, astronaut ice cream, that's been plaguing the crew for a long time now. So the ice cream that you see in the novelty stores with the strawberry, vanilla, chocolate swirl. We have never sent anything that is remotely like that. Host: That's what I thought, yeah. Takiyah Sirmons: Back in the Apollo days we sent ice cream one time and it was the cube form, so if you think back to tube and cube days it was a pressed food substance that was coated so it didn't have a lot of crumbs. Host: Interesting. Takiyah Sirmons: And it flew one time at the request of an astronaut and it hasn't flown since, no one else has requested it after that. From time to time the astronauts get ice cream if there is a science experiment that requires refrigeration or a freezer on the way back. We will load up the empty unit with ice cream or if it's plugged in, if it's powered up. And they'll get ice cream single serve ice cream every once in a while but it's very, very rare. Only other time that they may have had ice cream was during the sky lab days and that's because we had refrigeration and a freezer on that particular vessel. Host: That makes sense, okay. Well, I feel like those astronauts should consider themselves real lucky because they are the few that actually get to have it sometimes. >> Every once in a while. Host: Ice cream in space, so cool. Okay so it's nice to see you again after the super bowl thing that we did. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, that was the last time we got together. Host: Exactly, it was so fun, so they had super bowl live downtown and NASA just came up and did like a culinary event and we talked about food science. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah. Host: We talked about you know, what we have to do different because it wasn't really a cooking show, it was like this is what NASA does even though we were preparing meals and having everyone sample them, it was pretty cool. And there is, you're not considered chefs right, you're considered food scientists because there's a whole different mindset when it comes to food in space, right? Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, so you're taking a product that everyone is used to, everyone is familiar with food, food is very important, our emotions are tied to food and you're getting it to last for an extended period. And so I think that's where the beauty of this profession comes in, you're solving problems with an everyday product that you need, you need for life. Host: So is that kind of the main purpose of space food is your job to make the food las as long as possible or is there more to that? Takiyah Sirmons: Well, there's a nutrition component obviously so it's a prepackaged food system so imagine if you were on a diet plan and the only thing that you could have is what a company sent you in a box. You know you need to make sure it is nutritionally sound, that the calories are balanced and that it tastes good. Because if you've eaten the same product for over I want to say six months or so you're going to get tired of it. So that's where we come in to play is we want to have foods that are nutritious, that offer a wide variety but they're also appetizing at the same point. And it's a really delicate balance, a lot of people think that oh it's just food, you can just make it but it's a lot of moving parts that go into making space food. Host: Yeah, yeah, there really are so like let's just go right into it, right so space food, why are we talking now about space food versus just -- do they have a kitchen up in the International Space Station right now, what is different about space food? Like the overall concept of it? Takiyah Sirmons: The difference is that it's already prepared for you, so most of the food that they have it's a prepackaged food system like I said before so we do all of the cooking and all of the processing here on earth. We send it up and they can either reheat it in the case of thermal stabilized products that I'll guess we'll get into in a minute. Host: Sure. Takiyah Sirmons: And then they'll add water to our rehydratable products. And so all of the cooking and all of the preparation has been done for them they just need to prepare it in that moment how they're going to eat it and then if they want to remix the foods in any ways, then they have the opportunity to do that. But there's no room for a kitchen, they have a food preparation area where they can make the meals and then eat them on the go and they are also very limited in the amount of time that they have. So anything that we give them they have to be able to heat up in about 15 minutes or so and then go onto the next task. So it's not enough time in the day for them to actually cook foods. Host: Right, they have like -- what do they allot, like an hour for like lunch but they don't even allot too much time, they allot sometime in the beginning and at the end of the day but not really like -- I think they allot like an hour for lunch. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, yeah. Host: So that's pretty much it. Takiyah Sirmons: It's a really tight window, so I mean if you want just eat and relax during that time you don't have the time to actually prepare the food. Host: Makes sense, okay so it's not ingredients based packaging, it's meal based packaging. Takiyah Sirmons: It is meal based packaging, so we package entrees separately and then we have a number of side dishes, a number of snacks, a number of deserts and they can pick and choose from any menu of items that they want or any variety that they want. Host: So they pick and choose all the time or do they have like specific like for on this day you're going to eat this for lunch, so they don't like have meal planning. Takiyah Sirmons: No, so we put together what's called a standard menu and it's basically a suggested menu that would get them to the amount of calories that they need per day. But when they eat it's prepared pantry style, so we'll send up a container that has x amount of side dishes, x amount of entrees, x amount of vegetables and they can pick from those containers. We only as that they open one container at a time and so that's how we know if the inventory is getting low, we just assume that they've eaten everything in that container once it's opened. Host: Got it, you have to keep track so -- Takiyah Sirmons: We don't mandate that they eat according to a certain menu, we've tried that in the past and we've seen that it doesn't necessarily work. The only time that they have to eat according to a specific menu is if they are participating in a nutritional study. So they're tracking actual foods that they have and how their bodies react to that. That's the only time but that's never the entire duration of their stay. Host: Yeah, they have experiments like that, right where they're actually doing sort of like meal planning. Takiyah Sirmons: Correct they have shorter duration experimenting, during that time we'll track exactly what they eat and have to eat according to that menu but outside of that they just kind of grab what they want. Host: Okay, so that's what they do for the most part. Takiyah Sirmons: For the most part. Host: Yeah, they're just going in and having whatever they feel like having that day. I know so Peggy she got her mission extended and she's starting to get to that point where she's out there for a long time and starting to you know, the menu can only be so big, so -- what was her favorite that she just mentioned, chicken, was it chicken fajitas that was her favorite. Yeah, but you obviously have your favorites and things that are good but then you're going to have -- you can't please everyone right. It's just like any food at home right. So everyone has their preferences. Takiyah Sirmons: Everyone has their preference and after a while they start remixing meals, we make a mac and cheese product and we make a chili product and you can mix them together and make chili mac and cheese. And they do that all the time, eating the same thing for six months, you're like okay I got to find a new way to develop this product. Host: Okay, so you open up some containers and like you said they're pantry based organizations so you have like you're snacks, pet package and you have like everything, so how are the meals and you hinted at this before, like thermostabilized is one way of packaging a meal, right, so. Takiyah Sirmons: It's one way of preserving a food product, so everything that we send to the International Space Station has to be shelf-stable. We don't have refrigerators, we don't have freezers, we only have that for a short period of time during sky lab days and that was like our early stab at a space station type vehicle. Right now we don't have the power to support those type of preservations so refrigerators or freezers so everything is shelf-stable meaning that we have to preserve the foods before we send them out of earth. So the primary methods are thermostabilized which is essentially canning but in a flexible pouch. So if you've seen MRE pouches that the military uses. Host: Yeah, meals ready to eat, they're just like these brown rectangular packages. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, so we use the same technology, basically a canning system. So a giant pressure cooker you kill any bacteria using heat as well as pressure and -- Host: Thermostabilized [cross-talk]. Takiyah Sirmons: And so about half of our foods are produced that way and then other foods are produced the freeze drying and I think most people are familiar with freeze dried foods. You basically pull all the moisture out of a food product so that nothing can grow. And both products are great because they're light-weight, where we can pack more into our containers because they don't weigh as much and all they have to do is add the water back when they get to the space station. Host: Nice, is there a benefit to doing one versus the other for particular foods? Takiyah Sirmons: So, it depends on the foods product some can't withstand the processing for thermal processing so say if you have a product that has a lot of cheese in it you have a lot of negative effects when you apply that high of a temperature to it so those do better when you freeze dry them. And so sometimes we can try the foods both ways and you'll see which ever one comes out better. It just depends on the food product. Host: Nice, okay for the rehydratable ones, I'm guessing so since the thermostabilized, MRE you can technically just rip open the package and start eating, right. Takiyah Sirmons: You can heat them up and eat them. Host: Oh, so they do have the ability to heat them up. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, they have a small food warmer on station that they can put their pouches into, they don't get terribly hot but I mean it's warm enough so that you can enjoy it. Host: Okay, so it's like the space version of I guess a microwave but just not as fast maybe. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, exactly. Host: And then so for the freeze dried ones that one they actually have to rehydrate, right, they have to stick it in the machine that gives it water and then what do they let it sit for a while? Takiyah Sirmons: Correct, they have a rehydration station on [inaudible] and on all of our food products we tell them how much water they need to add, whether or not it's room temperature or has to be warm water. They'll inject the product and it rehydrates within 10 to 15 minutes. Again, they don't have a lot of time to wait for their products to rehydrate and then they can put it in the food warmer if they want it warmer or they could put it into a small chiller if they want it cool. And then they're able to enjoy the product that way. Host: Nice. Takiyah Sirmons: It takes a little bit longer to prepare than the thermal stabilized products but I think the quality sometimes is a lot better. Host: Interesting, okay yeah because it goes through -- okay I guess the process of that makes it actually taste better. Takiyah Sirmons: Well, the texture is preserved a little bit, if you imagine just cooking something, basically cooking it to death versus something where you pull the water out and then you add it back into the same place, it's a slightly better texture. Host: Oh, okay, see these are things I'm thinking like regular food, like cooking over a pan you know, you don't normally think about this stuff. Okay so I've seen that machine before that they use to rehydrate their meals. They have a dial like you said they can put a certain amount of liquid into it, so however many milliliters it takes to rehydrate that particular food. Takiyah Sirmons: Yes. Host: So, what foods take a little bit more water than others and why? Takiyah Sirmons: It depends, products that have obviously if you have more of a food product in the package it's going to take slightly more water. Depending on if there's sugar in the product or not that may not require as much water to rehydrate. They also adjust the amount of water that they put in so we may be do our testing on earth and say hey you need 75 milliliters, they may not like their food that watery so they'll just dial it back a little bit. So it just really depends on the product and preferences once they get into space. Host: Yeah, so I guess they just learn from experience in that kind of instance whereas it's just like oh that one was a little bit too watery for me, maybe next time I'll use the same thing because it was good but just a little bit less water. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, and it takes a couple of times to I guess learn the product. Host: Nice. So you work in the food lab so I'm assuming you've tried a bunch of the different meals so. Takiyah Sirmons: I like food. Host: Yeah, so what are some of your favorites? Takiyah Sirmons: I really like the meatloaf, I think it's really flavorful, it's better than the meatloaf that I make at home, I don't know if that's saying a lot. I'm really fond of anything sweet so the dessert category I'm always dipping in a dessert category, we have chocolate pudding cake, lemon carrot cake, cherry blueberry cobbler so those are probably some of my favorites. Host: I've tried the cherry blueberry cobbler. Takiyah Sirmons: Do you like that? Host: That one is really good, yes. Takiyah Sirmons: Anything sweet I think is [inaudible]. Host: So, I know in space I think it's a little bit different because I guess there's something where the astronauts over time start to lose a little bit of their taste sensitivity, so they start to enjoy spicier foods but is there a reason for that? Takiyah Sirmons: So the perception of taste changes a little bit. Number one they're in microgravity so there's a fluid shift and so it's kind of like eating with a head cold. There's still flavor there but everything is muted and so the preference for spicy foods is because you can always taste spicy food it gives you a little bit more kick. And so we always provide a variety of condiments. They have pepper on station, not in the powder form but -- not in the granulated form I'm sorry, it's dissolved in an oil so they can squeeze a drop and touch it to the product and they can spice up their foods. We have a number of hot sauce, hot sauce is always on the menu, different kinds of hot sauce. Host: I love hot sauce, I would bring so much hot sauce if I went up to orbit. Takiyah Sirmons: Well, you live in Texas [cross-talk] so a lot of hot sauce to spice up their foods. One of the favorites is shrimp cocktail because it has a spicy kick in it and I guess anything, yeah spicy food. Host: Anything spicy, yeah so how about sweet, is sweet a little bit enhanced or is the sweetness muted so they add more sugar or something like that? Takiyah Sirmons: You know, I've not heard that they add more sugar, I haven't had very many complaints about sweet products, I think it comes down to a preference if you like sweet products before you go into space you'll still have a sweet tooth when you go into space and vice-versa. Host: Okay, does preference change at all? Takiyah Sirmons: I've heard that preference does change so before any crew member goes into space they sit down with our dietician and we have one dietician on staff who essentially shows them the entire menu, so they'll work their way through all 200 different menu items. Host: Sounds like a great day, a great day. Takiyah Sirmons: They do it over several days, maybe four different times they have lunch with us and it's just so they know what to expect and they understand how the food is going to taste when they get into space. Or hopefully how it's going to taste when they get into space. They rate all the products and then items that are scored pretty high, we add those to their crew specific container which is essentially like a bonus container, it's separate from the standard menu so it's just for that particular crew member. And we do that in case they really like one item and we don't provide enough of it in the standard menu, they can have some just for themselves. Host: All right. Takiyah Sirmons: So we've heard that they come into evaluate food and they score it really high and then when they get into space they say oh I don't want this product anymore, so it's really hard to accommodate that. Host: Wow, that would stink if you had to -- if you really enjoyed one item and you're like for example the cherry blueberry cobbler and you're like oh that's my favorite dessert I'm going to have a bunch of that and then you put it in your personal and you take up all this space then you're like I really don't want it, I've had too much cherry blueberry cobbler. Takiyah Sirmons: You know what I mean, you live and you learn. Host: Yeah, I guess. Takiyah Sirmons: They trade a lot of foods on space station, so if you said you wanted one product and it doesn't taste the same when you get into space, I'm sure someone else would like that product. So it works out usually. Host: So I mean beyond preparing specifically for the International Space Station because that's where we're flying right now. You sit them down and you go through the whole menu to select what they're going to have aboard but is there any other, are there any other processes before they go up where you are preparing in a sense? Takiyah Sirmons: Preparing them for -- Host: Preparing either the meals or like how do you get ready for that, so do you sit down with the dietician and then select your meals and then you are busy preparing that food for the next couple months, like what other steps are there? Takiyah Sirmons: You mean in the lab where we prepare? Host: Yeah in the lab, yeah. Takiyah Sirmons: Oh, so we keep inventory, so like I said before all the food is packed according to category and we ask that they just open one container at a time per category. So once they've opened it, they'll scan it and we'll get a message saying hey they've opened their breakfast items which means that that is no longer in inventory. So we'll at that point go and prepare more breakfast items in the lab and have them available for the next shipment. Host: So yeah, yeah so it's more like you're watching what everyone is doing in orbit. It's not necessarily like you know, they sit down, like this is what I want and then you're preparing their meals for their orbit specifically. Takiyah Sirmons: No, no, no, no we don't do it that way because they eat according to a standard menu, no for their crew specific containers if it's something that we don't have on the menu, so say we send up granola bars, a generic form of granola bar. If you have a certain brand that you're loyal to we will go to the store and buy that brand for you as long as it's flight compatible. Meaning that it doesn't have a lot of crumbs, it's not very liquidy. It's not going to produce a lot of free liquid in space. We'll repackage it and send it into space for you so those items we will do on a case by case basis. If you say you know, I really like this brand of chocolate granola bar we will go and get that for you and package it. Host: All right, okay, I'm trying to think of other things that I would probably want to package but I'm thinking of a lot of crumby stuff so that's one thing they have to be wary of right, is because crumbs are not good to have on orbit because I guess they fly around. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, I mean it's a closed environment, if you don't eat it in space it's going to float around and it's going to stick somewhere. It may get stuck in your eye, it's going to get stuck in equipment, we just don't know where it's going to land to we try to avoid that we don't send chips into space for that reason but you can have crackers. Host: Oh, okay because they're less crumby, okay that makes a lot of sense. So I know another one is bread, right you can't ship bread up because bread is crumby and instead they use tortillas. Takiyah Sirmons: Right, they have tortillas and we have one type of bread product that we send up and it's extended shelf life bread and we purchase that and then we send it into space. But primarily when they want to have a sandwich or something on the go they use tortillas because it's just really convenient. Host: Yeah. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, so traditional bread that you find on the shelf we can't send that up, the shelf life isn't long enough and then it produces too many crumbs. Host: All right, so what else has the food lab learned just from, now that you've been flying space, flying food to space for so long, what have you sort of learned along the way. Like bread for example, thinking about crumbs, what other things have you learned along the way and kind of adapted to the menu that you have now. Takiyah Sirmons: Gees, lessons learned from flying in space. I'd like to say that the hardest thing to control is the human factor of eating in space. So like I said before we don't dictate what they eat in space because we've tried that in the past and it doesn't necessarily work. Host: Because they want to eat what they want to eat. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, and I mean that's a human factor that you can't control for. So you have people who are very brilliant people that are going into space but there's a psychological component that goes along with eating and when you eat something it reminds you of home, there's comfort foods that you have, you can't always mandate what someone does or doesn't want to eat. And so I think that's been one of our, I guess our biggest lessons learned. Host: So I guess it's a lot of planning then is really what the lessons come down to as you're trying to plan something diverse or if someone wants something you can deliver [inaudible]. Takiyah Sirmons: Right and that's been the driving force behind the food lab here at JSC, we started from tube and cube days and we were providing nutrition but it was very good, it wasn't very appetizing and we learned quickly that you had to provide something that at least mimicked or resembled food here on earth. And so that's what we've been doing sense the beginning of the space program when we were allowing humans to eat in space is just trying to improve it. And get something that's closer to what you normally have here on earth. Host: So I mean working with space food and designing food that has to be nutritionally balanced for the astronauts, what have you learned that you've taken into your personal life about food. Little tips and tricks that maybe us at home can take into account. Just like maybe I should have you know, I know there's a lot of fad diets out there right, so people are eliminating carbohydrates starting to eat more proteins. Or something like that, is there anything that you've learned just from creating food for astronauts on board? Takiyah Sirmons: I would say that seasonings go a very long way. Prior to coming into the food lab I seasoned everything with salt and pepper. And we had a large sodium reduction initiative in our food lab a couple years ago, we were finding that the astronauts, some of the astronauts were having vision problems from having high blood pressure in space [cross-talk]. So we reduced the sodium to reduce blood pressure and a long with that you had to reformulate a lot of your products and figure out different ways to season them. And don't under estimate the power of good seasoning, with herbs and spices and so now in my personal life I season a lot more with those. They're slightly more expensive but they go a further way than just salt and pepper. Host: So it's eliminating sodium from your or at least reducing sodium. Takiyah Sirmons: We're not eliminating it. Host: Reducing and then seasoning them with different things other than salt. Takiyah Sirmons: Yes, in my personal life I've learned how to do that. Host: Okay, all right, that's a good one, I'm going to take that one back and I'm the same way I like putting salt and pepper on everything. Because it's a good neutral seasoning and it enhances the flavor of whatever you're eating without necessarily changing it and yeah but I guess that's a bummer because I really like salt. Takiyah Sirmons: You can have your salt. Host: Okay so up on board they're going to have their preferences, right, we've been talking about this but do they share meals, right and this in an International space station, so do they share internationally? Takiyah Sirmons: So the U.S. provides about half of the food for the International Space Station and then our international partners, primarily Russia provides the other half of the foods. The astronauts that come and evaluate foods in house, they are U.S. astronauts but it's not uncommon once they get into space to begin trading food with the Russians and vice-versa. So it's a lot of trading that goes on it just kind of depends on their preference, if they see something they like then they'll try it and then they can request Russian food in their crew specific containers if they really like an item. So the next time we have a vehicle go up we can send those foods. But very common for them to trade foods amongst themselves. Because we get curious after a while. Host: Yeah, what are you guys eating, I want to know what that is, so. And they package theirs differently right, so you're talking about in the U.S. we package, thermostabilized, we do the dehydrated or what did you say, freeze dried. Takiyah Sirmons: Freeze dried foods. Host: Freeze dried foods and they do theirs in cans. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, they still use a can system which means that their food warmer is slightly different so they have a -- their food warmer allows you to drop the cans into a slot and they warm it that way. And our foods obviously don't fit in that particular configurations. So it's very different, the one advantage to moving to a flexible pouch which we use is that it's a light lighter so you can send more food up. Host: Oh, okay, nice yeah I do like -- it's something you have to think about right especially when you're launching things to space you got to make sure that weight is money right. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah weight is money. Host: Yeah, so you got to reduce that and that makes a lot of sense. So going back to the lab, you know, when you're talking about sharing but you do have to prepare it and you said you're preparing -- you realize the inventory of what's on board and then prepare it that way. What's that like, what does preparing entail, like are you making dish by dish and putting them into packages. Like what's the process to get from a meal here on the ground packaged and ready to go, shipped up to the International Space Station? Takiyah Sirmons: So it's kind of a batch process, we will make maybe 100 pounds of food, 80 to 100 pounds of food depending on the process we'll determine how long it takes so with thermal stabilized foods you'll make a large kettle and then you'll put the food into individual servings sizes and so one of those collectable pouches is a serving of food. So say you take 160 grams, you'll package it, you'll seal it and then you'll put the entire batch into a retort, which is basically a giant pressure cooker. And that retort will run at a high temperature, high pressure for say an hour and then you'll take all those packages out, inspect them one by one and then they will be stored until it's time to send those. For freeze dried foods the process is a little bit longer because it can take up to a week to remove all that moisture in our freeze driers. So the process starts about the same, you'll buy ingredients from the grocery store, you'll inspect all of the ingredients. Make your batch of foods and then you'll either freeze dry them into individual servings or into one large pan, And then from there you take the pan of product and then you'll put it into individual servings, package it and then store it until you're ready to use it. So quite a long time, it is a process. Host: But you have to do that right, you can't, you've got to make sure the food is going to be good. Takiyah Sirmons: Correct. Host: When you send it up both in terms of taste obviously but in terms of quality. Takiyah Sirmons: Correct, correct. Host: Okay, so let's see we talked about shelf life, it's one of the more important things, so you're going through this process for a reason, it lasts a long time. Takiyah Sirmons: Right. Host: So what is a typical shelf life of space food? Takiyah Sirmons: Again it depends on the product, we try to have an inventory that will last for at least six months. Six months on space station, our thermostabilized foods because of the processing those can last from one year up to two year and then it can last beyond that depending on what the product is. But we definitely shoot for at least six months on space station and that just allows us enough time to prepare more foods and to get another vehicle up. Host: So what are the steps that need to happen to take it beyond that? Takiyah Sirmons: So if we needed to extend it beyond whatever shelf life we assigned it. Host: Yeah. Takiyah Sirmons: So we have a control set that we have on earth, it's housed here at JSC, anytime that we make a product and we package it we'll pull a couple samples and keep them in storage here. And so if there's a situation where we have to extend the shelf life we as a team will evaluate those products and make sure that it's till acceptable. So if I'm not going to eat it on earth, I would never ask you to eat it in space. So we don't do anything we're not willing to [inaudible]. Host: Okay, so you prepare it to last that long, you've packaged it, you've gone through that whole process what about getting it to space, how does that happen? How do you get from the lab and I guess how much do you put in a single cargo vehicle to get to space? Takiyah Sirmons: So there's no solid answer for that it really depends on how much space is available on that vehicle and what the inventory looks like on ISS. Host: So it's constantly changing. > Takiyah Sirmons: > It's constantly changing, no vehicle has the same amount of weight put into that. With that being said we don't have our own vehicle that we use, we use commercial vehicles, so Space-X and Orbital now those will dock with the International Space station, they'll unload the food and they will load up any trash or anything that needs to come back or experiments that need to come back. We don't send that on our own. Host: Oh, okay, so it changes just based on whatever you have available on that [inaudible]. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, it's all inventory driven so whatever is available in space that will dictate what we make on earth as well as what we package and what we send on the next vehicle. Host: But I'm assuming you have plenty of food on the International Space Station, right, so they'll never -- there's a very low chance that they'll actually runout. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, they'll never be in a situation where they're running out of food, they may not have all the variety that they like. They might be down to peanut butter and something they don't necessarily like but they will never runout of food. It's set up so that they have a reserve of food at all times. Host: All right, so what's some of the more creative things you've seen astronauts do with the food because you said they are prepared in a way that you can just heat them up and eat them as is because they're already meals. But are they adding stuff together and -- I mean the chili mac and cheese sounds amazing. Takiyah Sirmons: It is amazing. Host: Yeah. Takiyah Sirmons: Oh gosh I guess they make a little bit of anything, we filmed a video a couple of months ago, we had two astronauts come in and show us some of their treats and I think I was the most blown away with the space smores. They a chocolate brownie I want to say they put peanut butter paste and then cookies on the outside and I was actually really impressed with the flavor of that. And that's not anything that I would have thought of but I guess if you're in space for six months and you've been eating the same food you kind of think of different ways to consumer it. Host: Wow, if you're going to snack in space you're going to snack right, the space smore that sounds amazing. Awesome, okay so we've been talking a lot about the International Space Station and it seems like we're in a system where we're still learning and you're learning how to do different things to make it as efficient as possible and it sounds like it's very efficient right now the way that food is delivered, eaten, the whole process. But for deep space what has to change and I'm assuming shelf life is at the top of that list but you know, we've already brought down the weight so much with the freeze drying capabilities but what do we have to do to prepare for a mission to deep space and to Mars? Takiyah Sirmons: Well, your right shelf life is our number one concern. We can make foods that last two years easily, that's what we've been doing for the International Space Station. When you start talking about going to Mars you're looking at a five-year shelf life. And that's because they're have been talks of prepositioning the foods, so we launch the food ahead of the crew. The crew travels, completes the mission and then we have to have food that will last to come back. And so no one has ever done a five-year shelf life, it's not something that's necessarily desired in industry because it doesn't make money, the quicker you can turn product over the better for our food company. And so no one is really testing out to five years and so that's been a challenge for us, not only quality wise but nutritionally. We have to make sure that vitamins are stable, vitamins and minerals are stable through the entire duration of the mission so that you don't have astronauts that are malnourished at the end of their stay on Mars. You know, so that's been a challenge, that's what we're looking at now, a lot of projects that have starting now are looking at the shelf life of food up to five years. Host: So I mean you can obviously store food for long periods of time, what about a growing food? Is the food lab a part of any experiments where you're talking about planting vegetables or something like that and growing them in a different environment? Takiyah Sirmons: Well, we're not growing plants at the food lab, a lot of that work is housed out of Kennedy Space Center in Florida. And so they are growing different dwarf vegetables with the expectation that that would supplement the foods system but not necessarily be the full menu. So we still have to have a standard menu that will provide the core amount of calories. And then there's a certain amount of food that you can grow to increase their variety. And so we've partnered with them on a couple of their projects, mainly for the sensory component so seeing whether or not those products taste good and whether or not consumers can tell the difference between a product that was grown in the greenhouse versus something that you would buy in the grocery store. And so we've done a little bit of work with them on that. Host: All right, all right that sounds awesome. Takiyah Sirmons: They can have a salad in space. Host: Yeah, cut up some fresh tomatoes or something. Takiyah Sirmons: They goes a long way, if they haven't had a salad in a while then you'd be very thrilled to have one in space. Host: That is true, they did something on International Space Station recently, right the veggie experiment. Some lettuce, Scott Kelly and Kjell Lindgren and some of those guys actually got to taste it up in orbit and they said it tasted like arugula. Takiyah Sirmons: Oh, okay, arugula is tasty. Host: So it would be good for a salad right, sprinkle a little arugula on a salad, I mean I'm imagining eggs benedict right now, I'm super hungry. Takiyah Sirmons: We're not there yet. Host: One, day, one day, oh okay all right so is there anything that you've learned you know, about astronauts, just anything new. I know taste buds maybe change but is there anything that they brought down with them from their experience on orbit that has kind of changed the way that. Or maybe not exactly changed the way but just added something to the way that you process food, make food, something like that. Takiyah Sirmons: I think the preparation component has changed a little bit, we're constantly getting feedback, like we mentioned before the amount of water that it takes to rehydrate a food item. We may get feedback that says hey when we were up there it took more than 15 minutes so you guys might want to look at your formula again. Or it didn't take that much water, I had to add water, so those are things that help us improve the products for the next crew that goes up. And so we're constantly depending on astronauts for their feedback so that we can optimize any formulas that we have in house. Host: All right, cool, all right I just know from talking to different astronauts their experience with making food and eating food and it's always visually just a cool thing to watch, right because they, a lot of them end up playing with their food. Takiyah Sirmons: Playing with your food. Host: It's a very cool thing to play with, right, they bring out the different colored candies and they flow. Yeah and they flow and they're making water bubbles and drinking that, I guess are all the drinks powdered and then they have to rehydrate. Takiyah Sirmons: Yes, every drink that we send whether it's coffee, coffee with sugar or just a hint of lemon, it goes in a powder form and then they add water to it. And all of our beverages have a clamp on them, it's to prevent that bubble from floating around in space but if you want to play with your food you just remove the clamp and then over time liquid will come through the straw and start to bubble at the top, so. Host: There you go. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah the eating experience is very different, you have to think more about it when you're in space just to make sure you're not making a mess everywhere. Host: So I mean I should have asked about that, just drinking, just coming out of a pouch, you have a straw coming out of a pouch, you have to clamp the straw otherwise -- Takiyah Sirmons: It won't happen fast but eventually over time you'll start to see a large bubble at the top and if you're not watching it then that can fall off. Host: So the bubble appears at the top of the straw and then I guess. Takiyah Sirmons: Then you can play with it. Host: You can play with it, yeah but eating though I guess we talked about making and eating but we didn't really talk about the actual process of eating. So when you open up a package is the food flying out or does it stick to the inside of the package. Takiyah Sirmons: So surface tension will keep the food in the package, it will keep it on the fork, they all have metal utensils that they use and they just clean it with wipes after they're done with the food product. Because you can't have free water, they can't wash dishes but they can sanitize and clean them. The overall experience is a little different because number one your food is floating and then you're floating in space. And so when we package food we use vel coins on the back of every product and that's so that you can literally stick it to the wall and your food doesn't float away. And so say if you're snacking while you're doing something else, you have your food product there you have your beverage there and it's stuck to one place. You can't just sit it on the table and walk away, like we have the luxury here on earth, your product will be somewhere else. Somewhere else in the space station. Host: That's interesting, you called it a vel coin? Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah a small Velcro coin. Host: Okay, like a circular, so then it sticks to that and then the food is inside the package just with the surface tension. Takiyah Sirmons: Right it stays in the package it just makes sure your food is where you left it when you turn your back. Host: Okay. And then whenever you're scooping it out with your fork or spoon or whatever it's not sticking just because you know, when you think about soup is the first thing that comes to mind. You scoop your soup and it stays at the bottom of the spoon because of gravity but because if you're scooping I don't know they probably don't have soup, do they have soup? Takiyah Sirmons: No, they have a number of soup items. They have soup, some of them have solid pieces in them so they eat them with a spoon and then we have a couple of them that it's just more of a broth and so you can drink those with a straw. So they have a number of soup products. Host: And does it stick to the -- Takiyah Sirmons: It sticks to the spoon. Host: No way it sticks to the spoon, that's really cool, awesome. All right I have so many more questions I just want to make sure that I get them all. Okay, so you're sticking it to the wall and they have like a -- I'm throwing up some air quotes here, so a dinner table right, it's just a table that's kind of diagonally against the wall but they have like tape and Velcro on it right. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah so they can stick their food product down. And it's still a communal experience, no one wants to eat alone, unless they decide to, we don't dictate that. Host: Sometimes they're busy right. Takiyah Sirmons: Sometimes they're just busy but I mean it is set up so they can at least have the community aspect of eating, breaking bread together. Host: Breaking bread, yeah all having a meal together, that's pretty awesome. Okay, do you notice that they eat together more often or do they kind of just rush eat? Takiyah Sirmons: That I actually don't know they choose to do it one way or another. And I imagine it will depend on their schedules as well as the crew member themselves. Host: I've seen sometimes where they have an experiment and it's too vital that kind of bleeds over into their lunch time and so their lunch time is pushed to a different time and it doesn't overlap with other crew members. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah, so they don't always eat together. Host: I was just curious on what they do in those instances, I'm assuming they just like they rehydrate their package, go do some work, come get their package, eat along the way so -- Takiyah Sirmons: Just a normal day at the office, I've had those days. Host: It's just crazy, I noticed you know, some astronauts when I was talking to them sometimes they just take that stuff for granted right, like I forget who was saying but this is not necessarily food but obviously you know, you're floating your food over on the side and working. And you're not really thinking about it. But your food is floating right next to you. I guess eventually you get in a groove when you're up there for so long that there was one astronaut talking about working out. And you know the ARED, the advanced resistance exercise that simulates weight lifting, it's positioned right, I guess if you were looking at the configuration of the International Space Station above the cupola. So when you're working out and doing bench presses you just see the earth right down -- Takiyah Sirmons: It's a beautiful sight. Host: Above you I guess it depends on -- yeah and they're taking it for granted, like awe man this workout is really hard [cross-talk] I've seen that one before, you know. I'm sure that not all of them are like that but there comes a point where you know, you're doing the same thing. They're working out two and a half hours a day, every single day. So eventually you know, things get a little bit more repetitive and I can understand it, but still very, very cool. Takiyah Sirmons: They work out a lot so they have to eat a lot, they eat a lot than you would on earth, so. Host: Oh, they do, their calories are increased? Takiyah Sirmons: They have more calories on average, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they're working out so much and then also it takes a little bit of energy to stay upright in zero gravity. We take for granted that when we sit in a chair we want to be sitting upright, whereas they're constantly bobbing and weaving. So they have to exert that energy to stay up right. Host: There's no real sitting right, they kind of like hook their feet underneath one of those hand rails and then they have to, yeah you're right they're bobbing because they have to stay in one position unless they kind of get their footing, right. Takiyah Sirmons: Yeah. Host: Interesting, do you notice that they come down, I guess this is kind of subjective but do they come down in better shape than they went up or worse shape or how does that change? Takiyah Sirmons: It kind of depends on the person, so NASA in general they take the health of the astronaut very seriously. Host: Of course. Takiyah Sirmons: And so that is part of the reason why they workout so much, that's to combat muscle loss as well as bone loss. And so they probably work out more than they would maybe on earth, depending on the person. We try to make sure that their food is nutritionally sound so that if you're someone who is not constantly paying attention to your diet before going into space it will be an improvement for you. But a lot of them are already very health conscious. So it really depends on the person and what state they were in before, but in general we don't notice those changes as much as we used to in the past. Host: I guess that's good, right because then there's not really negative -- well, you have counter measures against those negative things. Takiyah Sirmons: Right, right. Host: So you're eating healthy, you're exercising regularly so you come down. Takiyah Sirmons: To make sure you're in reasonably good health when you come back and that's an overall mission of the space program to make sure there aren't lasting effects of going into space. And obviously the more that we have astronauts in space, the more we learn and we try to combat those effects. Host: Right and the International Space Station is perfect for that right, it's like a big you know, it's a laboratory that you can practice this over and over and then if you go do another mission then you're well-prepared because you have all this data from collected from the International Space Station, very cool. Well, Takiyah I think that's about all the time we have for the listeners if you want to know more have a suggestion on what we should talk about stay tuned to after the music to learn how to submit those ideas. Takiyah thank you so much for coming it's always a pleasure talking to you, space food is one of my favorite things to talk about. And I know we were just talking beforehand but we might have to do another episode on the history of space food. Takiyah Sirmons: That would be very interesting. Host: Yes, okay and I'm sure there's more so we'll do another episode but thank you again, it's been an absolute pleasure. Takiyah Sirmons: Thank you. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around, so today we talked with Dr. Takiyah Sirmons about space food and the space food that they make is mostly right now, well almost entirely, for the International Space Station. And you can see some of the pictures that some of the astronauts share of the food that they're eating on the International space Station by going to NASA.gov/ISS. We have a lot of blog posts and photos that we release regularly, some of them are about space food but you can also learn what's going on aboard the International Space Station like what experiments they're doing and some of the latest updates on what's being done onboard. On social media we're very active on Facebook it's International Space Station, Twitter at space underscore station and on Instagram is at ISS. If you use the hashtag ask NASA on anyone of those platforms and submit an idea or maybe a question for the show we'll make sure to address it in a later episode of Houston We have a Podcast. This podcast was recorded on July 5, 2017. Thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stoll and Bill Jesse and thanks again to Dr. Takiyah Sirmons for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

F*** Yeah Fluid Dynamics: Inside the science communication process

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sharp, Nicole

2016-11-01

Communicating scientific research to general audiences may seem daunting, but it does not have to be. For six years, fluid dynamics outreach blog FYFD has been sharing the community's scientific output with an audience of nearly a quarter of a million readers and viewers of all ages and backgrounds. This talk will focus on the process behind science communication and some of the steps and exercises that can help scientists communicate to broad audiences more effectively. Using examples from the FYFD blog and YouTube channel, the talk will illustrate this communication process in action.

hwhap_Ep39 BEAM and Expandable Spacecraft

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-04-06

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have A Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 39, BEAM and Expandable Spacecraft. I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host today. So, this is the podcast where we bring in the experts. You know this, guys. NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all to let you know the information-- the coolest info right here at NASA. So, today we're talking about expandable tech and expandable modules and a commercial module on the International Space Station right now called BEAM, or the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module. We're talking with Rajib Dasgupta and Gerard Valle. Rajib Dasgupta is now the material process engineering system manager for commercial crew, but he was the former project manager for BEAM through most of the beginning of the project. And Gerard Valle is now the project manager for the project. He used to be the BEAM structures lead. We talked about the beginning of the project with Rajib and more on what BEAM and expandable modules are made of, how they work, and what's in store for the future with Gerard. Thanks to Max exclamation point on Twitter for the suggestion to do an episode on BEAM. So, with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Rajib Dasgupta and Mr. Gerard Valle. Enjoy. [ Music ] Host: We'll talk about BEAM today. So, basically the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module, right, that's the acronym. I had to make sure I memorized that before today. So, the whole idea was basically it's an expandable module, not like the aluminum shell that comes up exactly like it's sent up, this thing is expanding, right? That's the whole purpose of the expandable technology? Rajib Dasgupta: Correct. Host: OK. So, then when did this all start? When-- how did expandable tech come to be? Rajib Dasgupta: Well, expandable technology from a NASA standpoint started around mid-90's, 1995, 1996-- 1996 to be precise with the TransHab project when NASA embarked in a pretty large-scale development project into space inflatables and expandables. And the whole concept of expandable was design a habitable structure with of soft goods, nonmetallics, for it to be lightweight. And also, the other concept was to have a very small launch volume, typically in the ratio of 20-25% of the full expanded volume, which you can pack pretty tightly and then launch using minimum storage space in the launch vehicle in the fairing and then once you're in orbit you expand it and get the full volume. So, essentially two benefits. Host: All right. Rajib Dasgupta: One is the smaller volume for launch and the other one is lightweight, of course. Host: Makes a lot of sense because you-- even with a larger module, it has to fit in this-- in the fairing, right? OK. So, that's a huge benefit because you can launch something a lot larger, right, and then kind of pack it down. Rajib Dasgupta: Pack it down. Host: So-- Rajib Dasgupta: And, in fact, the smaller ball-- the fact that we could pack BEAM to its smaller volume enabled us to launch in the cargo Dragon trunk. Because the trunk-- the cargo trunk only had so much space and the packed BEAM was about the largest volume you could launch in the cargo Dragon. Host: I'm imagining an analogy. I'm imagining like if you're going on a camping trip, you wouldn't pack your tent fully, you know, set up in the back of your trunk. You have to collapse it first. Rajib Dasgupta: Collapse it, yes. Very similar concept. Host: OK, yeah. But that was the idea, right? You didn't have to-- you didn't have to purchase a larger vehicle. It could be shipped up in the trunk of the SpaceX with fully pressurized cargo on the other side, right? Rajib Dasgupta: Absolutely. With our existing launch capabilities. Host: Oh, amazing. All right. So, going back to TransHab. Rajib Dasgupta: Right. Host: So, the beginning of this idea of expandable technology. What was the project there, this development project? Rajib Dasgupta: It was basically to develop a very large-scale expandable. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: Or inflatable. Much larger than BEAM. Host: Oh, OK. Rajib Dasgupta: But a full-scale space station compatible hab module to be completely made of an, you know, expandable structure. That was the whole purpose. And that enabled us to do some very detailed research and development and testing of expandable and inflatable materials and structures. And that went on for three years through '99 when Congress decided to cancel that program. At which point, NASA actually licensed the patent-- there were three patents that came out of that whole effort and then after that-- after the cancellation of the TransHab program, NASA decided to license the patents to Mr. Bigelow in Bigelow Aerospace and that's how Bigelow Aerospace really got into this kind of technology development and they further developed it into a mission-ready flight-ready structure. OK? Host: I see. So, there's three licensed NASA technologies that are now over in Bigelow's hands and that's what they used to develop the expandable module that we see on the space station today? Rajib Dasgupta: Well, they did further developments on that. Host: I see. Rajib Dasgupta: But they took the, you know, that was their baseline. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: That was their starting point. And then they did further testing and development, obviously, and that, you know, that involved to my knowledge significant amount of private enterprise funding from Mr. Bigelow to develop those technologies from that starting point into something that we could fly on station. Host: OK. And a lot of it-- and a lot of it has to do with-- and we can get more into this when we talk with Gerard, too. But more of the structure itself is a lot of layers. Is that part of the technology? Rajib Dasgupta: Yes. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: It comprises of several layers, each performing its own function. Host: That's right. Yeah. And about consolidating that, but each one, like you said, serves its own function so you kind of need that. OK. So, then how did the concept for BEAM start? When did we start moving from licensing this-- Rajib Dasgupta: So, happened in 2010. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: Precisely in April or May of 2010-- April 2010 when NASA-- for the ISS program, NASA Headquarters had what is called a broad-agency announcement, which is call-- like, simply like call for proposal-- Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: For ISS technology development and research, right? And then-- so, Bigelow Aerospace did provide a detailed proposal in that call and proposed that they would fly a small-scale inflatable habitat or expandable habitat on station for technology demonstration. So, that's when it started, 2010, in the mid-April timeframe. And then we got that proposal on the NASA ISS program side and did feasibility assessment from that and then that's how it started, basically. Host: So, Bigelow and NASA have been working pretty closely then from 2010-- Rajib Dasgupta: From 2010 onwards. Host: OK. So-- and how was the relationship there? It was mostly I guess Bigelow doing a lot of the technology development, but what was NASA's role? Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. So, Bigelow was doing most of the technology development of the expandable structure, but NASA's role was to integrate that structure onto the ISS in a safe-- in a safe manner, which does not, you know, compromise the safety and integrity-- structural integrity of ISS. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: So, that was NASA's role mainly. So, integrate that expandable structure onto the launch vehicle, which is Dragon and Falcon, and then on orbit deploy it and deploy it safely and demonstrate the technology for Bigelow. Host: So, there were a lot of I guess constraints for sizing because it had to fit in a launch vehicle, right? But then also for the way it connected, making sure that all the hooks and switches connected, it was going to get power, it was going to get atmosphere, all of that kind of stuff, right? So, then I guess there were-- did NASA have to do a lot with the fault safes I guess? Because, you know, making sure that-- this is a test technology, so making sure that you're right and if-- in instance that there were some sort of instance where you would need to shut it off, I guess-- were you developing procedures for that or technology for that? Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Host: So, what were some of the things? Rajib Dasgupta: Well, you know, some of the things-- like, for example-- just you said the size, right? So, the size-- very interestingly enough, the size of BEAM was tailored according to what we could launch in Dragon. So, Bigelow came up-- the original proposal had a different size. So, we had to resize it so we could launch it in Dragon. OK? So, that's one. Then the connection, you talked about the mechanical and electrical connection. So, NASA provided through another commercial company called Sierra Nevada a port-- a common porting mechanism that Bigelow attached to their module so that that common porting mechanism could attach the BEAM module to Node-3 aft. So, as you know, we have common attach mechanisms on ISS, so we had to provide that. OK? So, those are the two examples of, you know, what we had to integrate, but there were several other things, like loads and dynamics. And when it would deploy, we needed to make sure that the deployment activity or the deployment did not impart a lot of dynamic loads on ISS structure because, you know, when you deploy it from a collapsed to an expanded state, there is some loads that's imparted back to ISS. We had to make sure that those loads were within ISS margins. So that-- and there are several other safety considerations, you know. Flam-- flame resistance was another big safety consideration because the module was-- the module was completely nonmetallic and full of fabrics. Host: That's right. Rajib Dasgupta: Off-gassing was another consideration because, again, the module was completely-- then external contamination was another consideration. All those-- all those-- big, big safety items were really what we worked on to protect ISS. But at the same time, we tried to make sure that the technology demonstration of the BEAM module was done in an acceptable manner. Right? Host: But it also seems like the idea of protecting ISS ultimately benefits the module itself, right? This idea of making sure that it's, you know, that-- that it's going to have this many loads, it's not going to impact the structure of the International Space Station. That could be translated to another BEAM project or the idea of making sure the fabrics are flame resistant. Again, flames in space not good, so it's perfectly translatable to their own technologies. Rajib Dasgupta: Absolutely, absolutely. So, these are considerations that, you know, long-term could be used in, you know, expandable technology, further development of expandable technology, let's say for exploration or something. These are the same considerations we have for deep space exploration. Host: Yeah, yeah, right. So, taking the same technologies, going further out, even-- I'm sure there's discussions of expandable technologies on-- for planetary bodies too and surfaces that have microgravity environment. Rajib Dasgupta: Right. Host: Yeah. So, perfectly translatable. Rajib Dasgupta: Yep. Host: So, how about the journey of BEAM? Where was it constructed and all the way its journey up to the International Space Station? Rajib Dasgupta: So, BEAM was constructed over at Bigelow Aerospace facility at Las Vegas, Nevada. And then, once it was fully done, the flight module was fully done, it was shipped over to the Kennedy Space Center launch complex 40 annex where the Falcon 9 and Dragon launches. But first it was there in the SpaceX cargo processing facility where we did a lot of the integration work. The final integration work and the sensor work and cleaning-- we did final cleaning of the module and then put it inside the trunk. OK? So, way-- the way Dragon integration works, they integrate the payload inside the trunk separately and then once the payload is integrated inside the trunk, then the trunk goes and gets integrated on the rest of the Dragon capsule and then one step ahead then the Dragon capsule gets integrated into Falcon 9. So, it takes place in steps. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: So, we first integrated the payload onto the trunk. That was our job. And once we finished that, we came back. And then the SpaceX team took it from there and integrated it into the launch vehicle. Host: Was it expanded on the ground at any point during this process? Rajib Dasgupta: No. Host: So, it was always in this packed configuration. Rajib Dasgupta: It was always in-- the flight module was always in the packed configuration, yes. Host: OK, so test modules I guess-- Rajib Dasgupta: Test modules and qualification test modules were expanded on the ground. Host: OK. Very cool. Host: So, then they launched-- was it April 2015? Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah, actually the exact date was April eighth of 2016. Host: Twenty-sixteen, OK. Rajib Dasgupta: The BEAM was launched and it reached ISS on April 10th of 2016. Dragon, of course, has a two-day journey to ISS, 48-hour. And then the Dragon got to port to ISS and sat there for a little while. It's normal, OK? And then on May 28th is when-- well, in May, beginning-- middle of May is when we started expanding BEAM. OK? We took it out from the Dragon trunk robotically with the ISS-- the space station arm. And then brought it on its final home on Node-3 aft. And then, after that, we started deploying it or expanding it. And, finally, we got it deployed on May 28th, 2016. Host: OK. Rajib Dasgupta: To be exact. But we had some challenges during expansion. Host: I see. What were those challenges? Rajib Dasgupta: Well, it was not opening up. As simple as that. Host: Yeah. Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. And basically-- again, to protect ISS from a load standpoint, the procedures we had was not to open those inflation tanks initially because that would impact-- impart a lot of impact loads on ISS. So, the procedures we had was to slowly inject ISS through the IMV, the inter-module ventilation valve to expand BEAM. But I guess we were injecting so little air into it, it was not-- and coupled with the fact that-- it-- the flight BEAM was sitting in that packed configuration for almost a year-- Host: Oh, right. Rajib Dasgupta: And the fact also that we were introducing so little air, that was not enough to overcome the stiction between the layers. Imagine if you have several layers of fabric pressed onto each other and sitting there for year or two, you know, they'll have some stiction in there and that was the whole problem. It was not separating. So, finally we-- the mission team, you know, was very smart enough to develop some alternate procedures where they would introduce a larger amount of air to have a little bit force to expand and slowly and slowly BEAM surely expanded. Host: So, then how did everything perform? What was the-- what were some of the-- Rajib Dasgupta: Oh, immaculately. Host: Really? Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. Once we expanded BEAM, everything performed really well. The crew went in there and we introduced ISS air, we started exchanging ISS air. It was clean and there was no fault or anything like that. Everything was fine. Everything-- in my opinion, everything behaved as it was-- as it was designed. That was a really good, good story for Bigelow Aerospace because I think they did a good job in designing the whole thing. Host: That's a great feeling too when you work on something for so long and you open-- you know, you see the crew members opening the hatch and everything's exactly how you expected. Rajib Dasgupta: Right. The only thing is it didn't expand initially-- Host: That's true. Rajib Dasgupta: Because the original design was made to be expanded with those inflation tanks and we didn't use it because of safety reasons, of course. ISS safety reasons. But-- so, there was a little bit of trial and error in the expansion. Once it expanded, it behaved like it was designed. Totally. Host: So, BEAM has its own inflation tanks that it-- Rajib Dasgupta: Eight. Eight of those tanks. Host: OK. And that would be used if it wasn't attached to the International Space Station? It could basically expand on itself? Rajib Dasgupta: It could. But even on BEAM while attached to station, the whole idea was to expand it to its full shape with ISS air at minimal pressure and then you release those tank airs to expand it to its full pressure. Host: I see. OK. Rajib Dasgupta: So, first with ISS air slowly expanding it to its shape. At that point, there would be literally no pressure. Very little pressure inside the module. And then, once it's fully-- attains its shape, in other words, the forward to aft bulkhead has its full separation per design in the expanded state, then you release those air tanks and fully pressurize BEAM. Host: OK. Very cool. What inside-- inside, were there experiments, I guess, to-- you know, like you said, this is a technology demonstration, so what were some of the things in the planning phase to test the technology? What equipment was used? Rajib Dasgupta: Well, primarily we had four different kinds of sensors. One was-- one primary set of sensors was measuring the radiation environment inside BEAM. The other two set of-- one-- another set of sensor was there to measure the deployment loads. In other words, how much load the BEAM bulkhead got imparted when it was deploying. So, obviously that sensor was not required after deployment. That was just to collect the deployment data. And then another one was-- is-- the sensor is to generate orbital debris data. Debris. Micrometeoroid orbital debris impacts. Now, interestingly enough, BEAM is in a position on ISS where the debris environment is pretty benign, so we don't expect to get a lot of debris hits, but the researchers still found this data interesting. So, we put that sensor in there and then there were some thermal sensors also to measure the temperature environment inside. Host: That's right. Rajib Dasgupta: So, essentially, everything to characterize the structure and the radiation environment. Structure and radiation environment. Host: That's interesting about the micrometeoroid impacts. I wouldn't have thought about it before, but like you said, it's on the aft end, the back end of the Space Station. So, you've got the Node-3 is right in the way of all the stuff. OK. Rajib Dasgupta: It has its own natural shielding from Node-3. That's right. Host: OK, but you're still getting pretty good data then, right? Rajib Dasgupta: Yes. I believe we are getting very good data and performance of BEAM overall has been very, very good. I mean from a condensation or, you know, regular structural integrity standpoint, it's been very, very good. And, actually, Jay-- you know from Gerald Valle that ISS has decided to extend BEAM's life. Host: That's right. Rajib Dasgupta: Beyond its two-year operation life. Host: That's right. Nice little foreshadowing there because we're about to talk to Gerard next. So, this is pretty cool. All right. So, thanks so much for coming on Rajib. I just wanted to-- before I kind of wrap up, I wanted to say, you know, what-- I wanted to ask what was-- how long were you with the BEAM project before you moved on to this new role? Rajib Dasgupta: You know, I was there-- I was the first to be employed with BEAM or work with BEAM and so I was there right from April 2010 when the first proposal came. So, I was leading that whole feasibility assessment effort and everything and then I saw it until pretty much deployment and on-orbit operation. So-- Host: All right. Rajib Dasgupta: So, I pretty much followed the project through until it got installed in ISS and started operating safely. Host: So, you saw the whole thing then, right? Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah, basically I saw the whole thing. Yeah. Host: All right. Well, hey, you're the perfect person to have on this, right, because you saw the whole history of it. So, I really appreciate you coming on today. Next, we'll talk to Gerard about some of the current projects and, like you foreshadowed, some of the future of BEAM. So, again, Rajib, thank you so much. Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah, thanks. Host: All right. Gerard, thanks for coming on the show today. I'm glad we could actually make the time to talk about BEAM, especially-- so, we just had a conversation with Rajib Dasgupta about the history, but now you're the current project manager, right? Gerard Valle: Correct. Host: But you've been a part of, you know, BEAM for a while. You started as a structures lead, right? Gerard Valle: Yes, struct and mech system manager. Host: OK. Very cool. All right. So, why don't we-- since Rajib kind of covered the history of BEAM and kind of where it started and all the way through its deployment, why don't we start with just what is BEAM because I don't think we've kind of covered that quite yet. Gerard Valle: Yeah, so Bigelow-- I mean BEAM stands for Bigelow Expandable Activity Module. It's basically an expandable module, also sometimes called inflatable, but it has currently birthed to Node-3 aft on ISS. It was launched on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket back in April of 2016 and it was birthed and deployed in May of 2016 and it's currently a technology demonstration, you know, experiment with a two-year certified life. And there's currently an effort to extend the life of BEAM to the end of ISS life as well as utilize BEAM as a stowage module. Host: Oh, wow. OK. Lots going on. So, after it was deployed, it kind of went through a couple of these tests, right, where it was-- the whole point of BEAM was as kind of a test module, right, to kind of test this technology. Gerard Valle: Right. So, when they first put it on orbit they, you know, did leak checks and made sure that it checked out fine and then the crew ingressed and they spent a couple days putting in a suite of sensors, you know, that can measure temperature, you know, pressure, they can measure micrometeoroid orbital debris impacts, thermal temperatures I think I mentioned already, and then also radiation. So, radiation performance. Host: Very good. Is some of the data being analyzed right now or do you have some kind of oversight of how it performs right now? Gerard Valle: Yes. We basically get periodic data reports. The crew ingresses periodic and goes in and grabs some of the data. It gets downlinked and then we process a lot of that data and then we produce quarterly reports that get sent back to NASA headquarters. Host: Oh, nice. So, it's still going on then. How long is-- how long will the astronauts be doing that? Gerard Valle: So, it's got a two-year certified life, so the plan was to go through probably May, June of 2018, but then ISS has shown an interest of actually-- you know, they're running into some stowage, you know, potential stowage issues come up with some new racks coming on board, so they're looking for a little additional space and they're looking at utilizing BEAM to offload some of the stowage, you know, constraints. And so, yeah, we're currently looking at that and then once that happens, then we'll just continue taking data, being as it's already up there and you've already got the instrumentation in place. Host: Yeah, why not? You have the two-year certified life, but then they've assessed that, yeah, it can stay there longer and serve as a great place to store things. Gerard Valle: Yep. They're currently undergoing the stress analysis and fracture and fatigue analysis to extend that life, but things actually look pretty good from the initial assessments. Host: Very cool. OK. So, when you're looking at BEAM, I mean this-- the whole concept of an expandable module is very different from the modules that are currently on the station. What are some of the essential differences between, you know, your regular module-- let's just say the Destiny-- Destiny Module-- the US laboratory and BEAM, what are the essential differences? Gerard Valle: So, the big difference is it's expandable, so, you know, it takes a lower fairing, you know, a smaller volume to launch it. So, we know this was able to be launched in the trunk of Falcon 9, you know, Dragon and, you know, then expanded to a full diameter. And so, for a long-term space mission, you can actually, you know, launch a larger core and then expand that to a much larger module. So, really it's the expandable portion and then, you know, most of your-- like your Destiny model module is made out of metallic structure, all metallic for the most part, and then BEAM actually has a metallic, you know, portion as well as fabric structure, you know, so that helps with the expansion. Host: All right. OK, cool. So, is it-- is the expandable module lighter? Is it kind of the same weight? Is it-- I'm imagining since it's smaller, it must be lighter, right? Gerard Valle: Well, once you expand it, you know, it, you know, becomes much larger. The micrometeoroid orbital debris protection system, that's usually one of your more heavy, you know, layers, because, you know, it's-- you know, you have the same requirement. And so, you know, you're not seeing great mass savings. What you do see is mass over volume-- Host: I see. Gerard Valle: You know, savings, and so you can basically launch a smaller volume and then get bigger once you're on orbit and so your mass and volume ratios are better than your traditional, you know, aluminum modules. Host: There you go. So, it's not just this fabric module that expands in space. There are layers. There are intricate layers in this module, right? Gerard Valle: Absolutely. So, I can't really, you know, talk about the BEAM layers as they're, you know, proprietary, what I can talk about is like TransHab, you know, BEAM was-- as Rajib mentioned was based off of TransHab and TransHab had a shell construction, you know, with a variety of layers. So, there's an inner layer to protect the bladder. The bladder keeps the gas in. There's a structural restraint layer, which is kind of like the leather of a football. I mean high strength, of course, you see much higher loads. Host: Oh yeah. Gerard Valle: And then, of course you have your micrometeoroid orbital debris layers, which are offset, and then of course you have your thermal protection layers, which are passive-- you know, it's a passive thermal protection system. And then, finally, for low-Earth orbit, you have the outermost layer, which is the atomic oxygen protection layer. Host: OK. All right. So, each layer has a very, very specific purpose, right? Gerard Valle: Yeah, we actually looked at trying to combine some of these layers-- Host: Oh yeah. Gerard Valle: And it-- you know, it-- there were inefficiencies. So, I think, yeah, they each have to serve their purpose and serve them well. Host: There you go. OK. So, I mean one of the main things about being an expandable module is the expansion itself. So, how does an expandable module expand? Like how did BEAM expand? Gerard Valle: So, it's, you know, relatively straightforward. You basically, you know, you release it so, you know, it has some type of, you know, restraint system that keeps it from expanding, you know, during an ascent. Once you get on orbit, you basically cut those restraints and so now it's free to expand and then you just start putting gas in, which in this case is air, breathable air, and then of course that-- the air, you know, creates the pressure inside and that, you know, drives it out until it finally takes its final shape. Host: Interesting. OK. So-- and that happened once it was actually attached on the station, right? You attached it first and then started pumping air into it. Gerard Valle: Yep, exactly. Host: OK. Very cool. So, inside, once it actually-- once it actually expanded-- I don't remember-- I believe-- was it Jeff Williams was the first crew member to enter the BEAM? Gerard Valle: I believe so. Host: Yeah, he said it was a little bit chilly, which he's a native Wisconsin, so obviously he was able to take it pretty easy, but inside, was it-- what was revealed once he actually went inside? What's the inside structure look like? Gerard Valle: So, you can see the inner liner, you know, obviously that's, you know, the bulk of the structure, but then you also have the metallic bulkheads, the fore and aft, and then of course there's a stabilization structure going between fore and aft and so you can see those four bars going between the two bulkheads. And of course, you know, at the back towards the aft portion, they had all the pressurization tanks, like scuba tanks, and stowage locker and basic shear panels that help carry loads during the initial launch. Host: OK. So, all of that was for launch, but do they just stay there after it's deployed, or do they serve a purpose, like, on the day to day? Gerard Valle: So, a lot of that hardware has since been removed. The pressurization tanks, the little stowage locker-- most of the big stuff to make way for the stowage that I mentioned earlier. Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. So, that's-- so, that's-- OK. They've kind of cleared this out so you can actually stow it. How-- is there a plan for how things are going to be stowed? Are you going to use, like, elastic straps or-- I mean because-- and the inside is just like this open shell, right? Gerard Valle: Sure. Well, there's-- I mentioned there are some bars that kind of go between the fore and aft bulkheads and so you can actually tie to those bars. So, they have what they call M1 and M3 bags and so they're already actually have them in place empty, tied into BEAM on the outer portion and then the crew can still ingress in the middle and then of course start putting stuff inside those bags. Host: OK. Very cool. All right. So, the whole-- again, to reiterate, BEAM is a test. You know, they were testing this technology on the space station because it was a great place to do so, right? The space station provided power, provided air to actually test the structure of BEAM, this experiment module, right? So, what are-- so, you kind of already alluded to some of the tests that were going on, but what did that process look like? Did-- were they constantly taking readings or was it more like, you know, check everything and then close the door? Gerard Valle: Well, I mean, they initially did the initial checks and so that took a little while and then they closed the door and then they go back in every, you know, two to three months and then pull data. They do microbial swabs, air sampling, and so, you know, that's all, you know, great. The, you know, the radiation they had some, you know, passive little, you know, sensors that just stay on BEAM and so they have to go in there and take them back to the ground. They have other ones that look like a little thumb drive and those are more active and those are always on and measuring and so you can actually download that data but in real time you have to downlink it and then process it. And then as well as the temperature data, that-- they, you know, download that as well and downlink it. And then of course the impact detection system, you know, that is a more complex process where they actually downlink that data and then some NASA engineers out at Langley process that data and they were able to triangulate and tell where, you know, the module got impacted, whether it was inside or outside and the amount of energy that they expect, you know, hit the module. Host: OK. And they're still analyzing that or they finding some things that maybe they want to change for the next BEAM or the next expandable module? Gerard Valle: Yeah, they're-- it's-- like I say, it's an ongoing effort and we plan to keep it going once we extend the life and make it a stowage module. Host: OK. Were some of these instruments taken up on BEAM and then once it expanded they just kind of stayed there, or was it more of the astronauts came in and started placing these things around and what parts of BEAM actually? Gerard Valle: So, there was a-- on the aft bulkhead, which the whole thing was compressed when it started, and so they had some accelerometers that they put on the aft bulkhead and so during inflation they can actually measure how it accelerated during expansion. All of the other sensors were set up separately and the crew went in and then outfitted the module once it was fully expanded and pressurized. Host: OK. So, right now it's-- I'm trying to imagine where it is on station. You said the aft bulkhead. It's actually attached to the aft side-- the back-facing side of Node-3. Is that right? Gerard Valle: Yeah, Node-3 aft, correct. Host: Yeah, and that's where the exercise equipment is, that's kind of where the Cupola is. They've got another storage module there actually right now, the PMM, right? Gerard Valle: Yeah, so they actually have to move the ARED out of the way to ingress into BEAM. Host: Oh, really? Gerard Valle: Yeah, so that's part of the ingress, you know, plan. Host: Oh, OK. Cool. So, would it be-- the ingress plan, does that mean-- does that mean ARED is going to have to be moved every time they want to enter BEAM or store something or are things going to be kind of shifted around? Gerard Valle: No, that's the nominal plan. They move ARED before they go into BEAM. Host: Oh, every time? OK. OK. So, it's kind of like long-term storage then, right? It wouldn't be any kind of short-term thing? Gerard Valle: Correct. Host: Yeah. OK, that makes a lot of sense. OK. So, now BEAM is kind of-- you said about to wrap up its testing. We're looking at kind of a mid-2018 timeframe, but then, you know, you said it's going to stay there and be a storage facility for-- on the International Space Station. Is there-- is there an end date to that or will it be kind of as long as possible? Gerard Valle: Yeah, exactly. It's as long as possible. So, obviously once you-- once you, you know, put everything in there, you'd like to leave it there as long as you can. So, the ideal goal is through the end of station life and it'll be dependent on the analysis that comes back from Bigelow Aerospace. Host: All right. Very cool. All right. So, the point of-- again, to reiterate-- the point of BEAM is a test. It's to take a look at expandable technology and see what else can we do with it. And I know there are some plans, right, because this is a-- this is a technology that was originally developed at NASA and licensed by Bigelow, correct? Gerard Valle: Correct. Host: OK. So, they have plans for this expandable tech. What's-- what are they looking to do? Gerard Valle: So, the big thing on their-- or near-term thing on their, you know, plans is the B330. So, BEAM is about 16 cubic meters. The B330 is 330 cubic meters, so much larger, you know, multiple, you know, levels. So, it's really, you know, exciting. It's basically the similar size to what the original TransHab design was. And then, of course, they're looking at all different-- a lot of different options for the B330. Possibly putting one on the International Space Station. It has a precursor for other mission-- advanced exploration missions, as well as looking at it for lunar surface, cislunar, as well as Mars and transit to Mars. Host: Wow. I mean I imagine that's-- even when it's not expanded, that still has to be a pretty heavy thing to launch into space. What kind of vehicle would take that up? Gerard Valle: I mean, you know, you could use any shuttle class, so like anything that's as big as a shuttle. So, you know, the, you know, the SLS could take it up, actually could bring it up on the smaller SLS. The Block 1, Block 2, and then of course if you have larger vehicles then, you know, that, you know, makes things even easier or you have alternate vehicles or modules you can launch. Host: Very cool. So, you can attach part of it to the International Space Station, there's a chance for it to be somewhere in low-Earth orbit, but then there's planetary versions too. You can actually design an expandable module for a planetary surface then or like a lunar surface? Gerard Valle: Absolutely. Host: Ah, very cool. Gerard Valle: Yeah, so there's actually-- as part of the next step, they're actually looking at, you know, utilization on ISS and utilization on the lunar surface and how the different architectures. At the Bigelow Aerospace website, they actually show, you know, lunar, you know, multiple modules on the lunar surface. Host: OK. Very cool. And there's-- yeah, no, there's a-- definitely a case for having this expandable technology as a habitat that can go on the lunar surface or Mars, but have you worked with some designs in the past and-- because you said you were working with TransHab as well too, right? Gerard Valle: Sure. I was the shell lead back during TransHab and then of course I worked other, you know, smaller modules, helping develop that technology throughout the years. So, it's been a big part of my career and a lot of fun and interesting and it's very exciting to see a private company, you know, utilize it and launch multiple modules. The Genesis modules back in '06 and '07, you know, summer of '06 and '07. And then, of course, to be a part of BEAM and actually see it, you know, launched and utilized on the International Space Station is very excited-- very exciting. And I'm especially excited about B330 because I would just love to see a module of that scale, you know, on the International Space Station or, you know, any of these other architectures that we've discussed. Host: Yeah. A giant expandable module with multiple floors-- I don't know what you would call it, multiple layers, multiple levels-- that's pretty cool to actually work on something like that. So, as the-- as the-- you said the shell lead. Is this the outer-- were you focusing on a single layer when you were working on that structure or were you kind of doing the whole outside, I guess? Gerard Valle: Yeah, it was for all of the fabric structure. So, everything from the inner liner that I described-- bladder, restraint layer, MMOD, thermal protection system, you know, as well as the atomic oxygen layer for low-Earth orbit. Host: OK. Has a lot of the technology kind of remained the same or has there-- has there been significant improvements as you've been working on it over time? Gerard Valle: Well, you know, NASA has done, you know, some improvements, but really, you know, Bigelow Aerospace, they've invested, you know, quite a bit of money and improved a lot of areas and so-- I mean they're-- they've actually made it a, you know, a flight-proven, you know, man-rated TRL 9 system. So, yes, absolutely lots of improvements and great work out there at Bigelow Aerospace. Host: Very cool. Is there any plans for NASA to use expandable technology? I mean-- I guess either working with Bigelow, because you said maybe Bigelow can develop something and then NASA can purchase that service, but is there any work on the NASA end? Gerard Valle: So, I think NASA's still in the evaluation stage. You know, I know they have that next step that I mentioned earlier and so, you know, there's Bigelow Aerospace as well as other private companies that are looking at expandable technology and so they're gathering data and seeing where it best fits in the architectures, but there's no firm plans, like, you know, plan to put an inflatable on, you know, the lunar surface right now, but there's still-- it's still in the trade space, so that's exciting. Host: Very cool. So, how about the relationship between NASA and Bigelow? I'm trying to understand just-- so, you're working-- you're the project manager for BEAM right now and working with Bigelow, is it on a daily basis? Are they-- are you working with their engineers or how does that relationship work? Gerard Valle: Yeah, we have a biweekly meeting, you know, for-- we call it a biweekly, you know, it's a technology meeting between Bigelow and NASA as well as all the different areas. And so, you know, we work down and in-between those meetings we'll have, you know, off-- especially with the stowage module, we'll meet with them-- you know, a lot of it's just emails or tele-- phone calls and stuff, but there's a lot going on and so, yeah, we'll meet with them periodically and, you know, good engineers and good people to work with for the last, you know, several years. Host: Very cool. Where is-- where's Bigelow based out of where they're working on some of this technology? Gerard Valle: They're North Las Vegas is where their base is. Host: OK. Very cool. Do you travel out there sometimes or is it mostly telecons? Gerard Valle: Not as much lately. It's mostly telecons and sometimes they come up here, but during the actual design and development, you know, I was out there a little bit more and so it was, you know, exciting to see their facilities and the actual module come and, you know, come and developing and being built and inspected and tested. So, you know, that was great. Host: Very cool. Do they-- do they manufacture all of the tech-- all of the layers and all of the parts of the-- of Bigelow expandable module there in Las Vegas or is it-- are the parts brought together somewhere else? Gerard Valle: Yeah, that I'm not 100% sure. I know they do a lot there, but I'm sure they outsource some things as well. Host: Yeah, definitely. I didn't know if-- is-- are some of the layers I guess NASA technology? Is any of it developed here and then shipped out to Vegas? Gerard Valle: No, no. They're definitely a fully independent company and so they're doing their own thing. You know, we will, you know, work with them if we see something that we, you know, think is a little risk or have a concern and so we'll talk to them about that and have meetings and splinter-- and work together and then of course, like I say, they're great at solving problems. So, you know, we've had a great experience working with them over the last few years. Host: Fantastic. Very exciting to see, you know, the success of BEAM so far and the fact that, yeah, let's keep this-- let's keep this activity module there and just use it as storage and then to hear some of the plans going forward and the possibilities of this expandable tech is pretty cool. So, Gerard, I really wanted to thank you for coming on the podcast today. Gerard Valle: Yeah, thank you. Good. Host: Yeah, this is a nice overview of BEAM and thanks again to Rajib for coming on and kind of describing the history, kind of getting the full picture of this whole story of expandable tech. So, again, I appreciate you coming on and wish you the best of luck for the remainder of BEAM's test up through the middle of the year. Gerard Valle: Great. Thanks. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, today we talked about the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module with Gerard Valle and Rajib Dasgupta. A little bit about the history all the way through the potential future of expandable modules in space. Pretty cool stuff. If you want to know more about Bigelow Expandable Activity Module, you can go to nasa.gov/iss to get some of the latest updates on how that is working on the International Space Station. It's right now, as Gerard said, being used as sort of a storage module and going to be on the ISS for the long haul, which is pretty cool. You can also see some updates on the International Space Station Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, just use the #askNASA on your favorite platform to submit an idea or ask a question or maybe submit a suggestion for an episode of the podcast, just like Max with an exclamation point did for this episode. Other podcasts, you can also check out other NASA podcasts like Gravity Assist hosted by Dr. Jim Green that talks about planetary science or you can talk about NASA in Silicon Valley hosted by our friends over at Ames Research Center that talk about a lot of other components on the International Space Station and are doing some pretty cool stuff on Twitch TV. So, this podcast was recorded on February eighth and February 20th. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Dan Huot, Steve Munday, Pat Ryan, Bill Stafford and Kelly Humphries. Thanks again to Rajib Dasgupta and Gerard Valle for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

Youth Advocacy as a Tool for Environmental and Policy Changes That Support Physical Activity and Nutrition: An Evaluation Study in San Diego County

PubMed Central

Edwards, Christine C.; Woodruff, Susan I.; Millstein, Rachel A.; Moder, Cheryl

2014-01-01

Background As evidence grows about the benefits of policy and environmental changes to support active living and healthy eating, effective tools for implementing change must be developed. Youth advocacy, a successful strategy in the field of tobacco control, should be evaluated for its potential in the field of obesity prevention. Community Context San Diego State University collaborated with the San Diego County Childhood Obesity Initiative to evaluate Youth Engagement and Action for Health! (YEAH!), a youth advocacy project to engage youth and adult mentors in advocating for neighborhood improvements in physical activity and healthy eating opportunities. Study objectives included documenting group process and success of groups in engaging in community advocacy with decision makers. Methods In 2011 and 2012, YEAH! group leaders were recruited from the San Diego County Childhood Obesity Initiative’s half-day train-the-trainer seminars for adult leaders. Evaluators collected baseline and postproject survey data from youth participants and adult group leaders and interviewed decision makers. Outcomes Of the 21 groups formed, 20 completed the evaluation, conducted community assessments, and advocated with decision makers. Various types of decision makers were engaged, including school principals, food service personnel, city council members, and parks and recreation officials. Eleven groups reported change(s) implemented as a result of their advocacy, 4 groups reported changes pending, and 5 groups reported no change as a result of their efforts. Interpretation Even a brief training session, paired with a practical manual, technical assistance, and commitment of adult leaders and youth may successfully engage decision makers and, ultimately, bring about change. PMID:24674636

F*** Yeah Fluid Dynamics: On science outreach and appealing to broad audiences

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sharp, Nicole

2015-11-01

Sharing scientific research with general audiences is important for scientists both in terms of educating the public and in pursuing funding opportunities. But it's not always apparent how to make a big splash. Over the past five years, fluid dynamics outreach blog FYFD has published more than 1300 articles and gained an audience of over 215,000 readers. The site appeals to a wide spectrum of readers in both age and field of study. This talk will utilize five years' worth of site content and reader feedback to examine what makes science appealing to general audiences and suggest methods researchers can use to shape their work's broader impact.

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 48: Moon Rocks

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-06-08

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 48, Moon Rocks. I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host today. So, in this podcast, we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all to let you know the coolest information about what's going on right here at NASA. So, today, we're talking to the keeper of all moon rocks in the world, Ryan Zeigler. Well, technically, they're all held here at the Johnson Space Center by NASA in the Lunar Curation Facility. But Ryan is the lunar sample curator here in Texas and he's also a planetary scientist. We had a great discussion about moon rocks, like the reason why we brought them back from moon during the Apollo Program, more about the facilities that keep them, and also what we're still learning from them. So, with no further delay, let's go lightspeed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Ryan Zeigler. Enjoy. [ Music ] Host: Ryan, thanks for taking the time to come on the podcast today. I can't believe it, but we're actually finally going to talk about moon rocks. Ryan Zeigler: I know, I mean you'd think this was a cursed subject or something. Host: Well, it's interesting because -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- all of the moon rocks that were collected on the Apollo missions are here, correct? Ryan Zeigler: Most of our here, about -- about 85% are here or maybe 80% are here, 5% are out with scientists, and about 15% are at a secret remote storage facility at White Sands, so -- Host: Oh, okay. Ryan Zeigler: Not that secret, I guess, so. Host: The secret's out now. Okay. So -- but -- but the moon rocks were collected on just human missions, right, not robotic missions? Ryan Zeigler: For NASA, yes. Host: Okay. Okay. So, were there other lunar acquisition -- like robotic ones? Ryan Zeigler: Yeah, so the Soviets had three Luna missions -- Luna 16, 20, and 24, and they collected about a pound of samples. Host: Oh, really? Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Yeah. Host: Robotically? Ryan Zeigler: Robotically, yup. Host: Okay. Very cool. Must have been a different profile. But we went a couple times, right? We did -- we did Apollo, you know, 11 through 17. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. We had six missions that landed on the surface. Host: Exactly. All right, a lot of moon rocks. So. So, let's talk about moon rocks, themselves, because, you know, how I imagine it is just, you know, gray rocks. But I'm sure -- and I'm sure as -- from a geologist's perspective, there are interesting ones and there are -- there are not so interesting ones. And there was -- there was just some decision-making that went with the acquisition of them. Ryan Zeigler: No, absolutely. And you're right, though. If you look at moon rocks, most of them are kind of boring to look at. I mean they have a bit of an image problem. Most of them are sort of gray rocks but there's a few things about them that really set them apart. They're really old. They formed on a body with no atmosphere, so there's a lot of micrometeorite impacts into them. There's a lot of things that set them apart from Apollo's -- from terrestrial samples. And so, they are really interesting to scientists for a lot of those reasons, yeah. Host: For sure, definitely. So, some of the first ones were collected from NASA on Apollo 11, right? Ryan Zeigler: Yes. Host: Awesome. So, how much -- do you know how much they collected? Ryan Zeigler: It's about 25 kilograms, so about -- a little over 50 pounds. Host: All right. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Host: But I guess it felt different when they were actually collecting it. Ryan Zeigler: Well 1/6 as much. Yeah. I know. I mean everyone was super strong on the moon and it was great. You could jump super high, except for the spacesuits, I think. Host: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, what did they used to collect it? Was it kind of bending over and picking it up or was it -- Ryan Zeigler: Well, they couldn't bend over very well and that was good for us because that kept them from touching them with their gloved hands because the gloves were a source of contamination. So, they had specially designed tools made out of either stainless steel or aluminum. And so, they -- like, basically one of those long claw things you see that -- like the t-rex with the two claw things, that's kind of like that, only NASA, so it was made of steel. Host: Okay. Ryan Zeigler: And then they had sieves and they had some rakes. And so, they had a couple different instruments -- tools to help them collect them. Host: Okay. And that was all planned ahead of time. They knew that the -- did they understand the surface of the moon before they went? Ryan Zeigler: They understood it pretty well. What they didn't -- they underestimated how important the impacts were on the surface. And on Earth, impacts are a relatively minor thing because we've got an atmosphere. So, you see shooting stars at night and that's little sand sized stuff being burned up. On the moon, all of that stuff, it's the moon going several kilometers per second. So, it's a much finer grained place and there's just -- yeah. So, the tools they use evolved over time. On Apollo 11, they had one set. And by Apollo 17, they had a much more evolved set. They learn from being there and sort of redesigned them on the fly, so to speak. Host: Okay. That makes sense. You go on the surface and you have people actually using the tools and then providing real-time feedback. Ryan Zeigler: Exactly. Host: Hey, this worked, this didn't. I need this bigger, this smaller, this longer, whatever, so. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. So, when they collected them, what was that process like? Did they kind of put it into bags and seal them up or was it like a bin? Ryan Zeigler: On Apollo 11 especially, because they didn't collect that many rocks, I mean 50 pounds sounds like a lot, but rocks are heavy. So, they had a special box with a metal-on-metal knife edge seal that allowed them to seal them away. And so, they would collect them with the tool, put it inside a Teflon bag, roll up the bag, and then the bag would go in the box. Host: Okay. Ryan Zeigler: And then at the end of Apollo 11, just before they were sealing them up to put them inside, Neil Armstrong looked at it and thought that the box looked kind of empty, so he got his shovel out and literally just shoveled a bunch of dirt into the box around all of the other samples. Host: Really? Ryan Zeigler: It's -- almost as an afterthought. And it ended up being like 11 kilograms or something. And it being almost a quarter of the sample they brought back. Host: Whoa. Ryan Zeigler: And it ended up being the largest single sample from Apollo 11 and probably one of the most important. And it was just -- he just looked at it and thought, this is silly, I'm going to go all the way to the moon and I'm going to bring back a half-full box of rocks. So, he shoveled some dirt in, sealed it up, and that came back. On later mission, when they started collecting more rocks and would fit in the rock boxes, some of them came back just in the Teflon bags, sealed up tight, like cookies or coffee or something. But those probably saw a little bit of atmosphere. Host: Oh, okay. So, the idea was to protect it from the Earth's atmosphere, once it got back, to avoid. Ryan Zeigler: Exactly. But the boxes are heavy and so they couldn't bring 10 boxes to bring back all those samples. So, they decided that for some samples, just being sealed up and minor exposure to air would be okay. Host: Okay. So, why did the dirt ended up being one of the more important pieces of Apollo 11? Ryan Zeigler: Well, one of the things they didn't realize -- because the impacts are so important on the moon, and a lot of the material just gets spread around. And so, the dirt -- the soil -- the regolith, official -- is the technical name for it -- is a really good average composition of a large area on the moon, whereas the rocks mostly come from that local area. So, you collect the rocks, you learn a lot about the local area. You collect the soil, you learn about the local area, but also exotic stuff coming from farther away. And it being so big, and hey, us having so much of it, everyone wanted Apollo samples when they came back, and obviously, we had a very limited mass. And so, them bringing back more than they expected opened up new studies just based on mass availability. And we also used those as a goodwill sample. We -- every country on Earth in 1970 got a piece of the moon as a gift that came from that soil -- that big shoveled soil. They took out the bigger particles, put them in plastic, took some flags they had flown to the moon, put it on a plaque, and they just handed it out to everybody. It was great, yeah. Host: I wish I -- Ryan Zeigler: All because -- all because Neil thought to shovel in a [inaudible] we're real close, so. I call him Neil, so. No, I mean all because he had the -- you know, the foresight to do something like that. Host: Exactly. So, what was interesting about the Sea of Tranquility, whenever they were picking the location for Apollo 11? Ryan Zeigler: Honestly, I think it really came down to safety. I mean they had some really strict constraints. They -- first time, they wanted something near the equator, so they used less Delta V, less fuel. They wanted something flat, so they'd have to worry about landing on, you know, a crater, which they almost did anyway, and they had to avoid it. So, a lot of it came down to it had to be on the equator and it had to be flat. And then they used spectroscopy. They looked at the light and it was bouncing off the surface and trying to find a place that was slightly unusual. And it turned out, Sea of Tranquility had a lot of titanium in it. And so, the light bouncing off it looked a little different and so they thought, let's go try that place. And then when they went to 12, they had similar constraints, but they went to the other end of the spectrum. And they got low titanium basalts. And so, you know, science wasn't driving the landing sights at that point, but they were still trying to maximize how much science they could get out of it. Host: Right and, you know, priority one was safety. Priority two was all right, in terms of the safest areas we could land, this one is also -- Ryan Zeigler: Exactly, that's how they did it. Yeah. Host: Okay. Cool. So, what's -- what was interesting about titanium then? Ryan Zeigler: On Earth -- I mean this is sort of a technical detail that almost no one's going to care about. But on Earth, you know, basalts only have a weight percent of titanium, 1% titanium. And on the moon, that's 8 or 9% titanium, and it tells you about the interior of the moon and what was melting to form these basalts. And it's quite different than Earth. And so, it was telling us about how the moon formed and evolved, all from one rock on the surface. And it wasn't the whole story, but it sure got things moving in the right direction. Host: All right. Ryan Zeigler: Otherwise, we've been wasting our time for 45 years. Host: Well, then so that was just a piece of the story. And then you went to -- we went to different areas to kind of let -- you know, we have these Apollo missions, let's use them to our fullest advantage. Let's figure out this story of the moon. So, what were some of the decisions -- and you said Apollo 12 was lower titanium -- but what were some of the other decisions for the later missions? Ryan Zeigler: So, for the later missions -- if you look up at the moon at night -- and this is super basic, but there's dark parts and light parts. And the first two missions went to the dark parts, those are mare basalts, like you would get in Hawaii. And then there was the bright parts, which actually make up about 80% of the moon, so they need -- they were like, we need to go to one of these bright parts and see what make up the Highlands. And so, same constraints, Apollo 14 landed pretty close to Apollo 12, near the equator, but in the Highlands. And then they got those samples back and realized, wow, everything's an impact, everything's a breccia, a rock made of pieces of other rock. It's like a jigsaw puzzle almost. And then after that, when they got to 15, 16, and 17, those were the J missions, so they had a Rover, they had much more -- better suits, they had a lot of other stuff. And so, then they were able to go to more technically challenging sites that were, at the junction, between the bright parts and the dark parts mostly. And so, also, I mean I'm sure you know this and all of the pilot -- all of the Apollo astronauts are pretty much test pilots. So, just landing on a flat bit, I don't think he was doing it for them. And so, Apollo 15 and Apollo 17, when you hear the astronauts talk about what it was like to land there, like landing in this little narrow valley on Apollo 17, and Apollo 15 landing and coming over this huge mountain. And then having to get down really fast and land onto -- before the big canyon. Host: Canyon. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. You know, and so, you know, they were able to do more technically challenging things with flying too. Host: Okay. Yeah. Well, that was -- that was their thing, right? Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Host: But then on -- was it Apollo 17, Jack Schmitt, now you finally have a geologist, right? Ryan Zeigler: Right. I mean, and Jack had played a really important part. I mean Jack comes to all of our science conferences. Jack has PhD in geology. He's way smarter than I'll ever be, and he still comes to all of the -- all of the conferences and many, many, many a debate ends with, well, when I was on the moon -- and that's when you know you've lost the argument because he's really [inaudible]. You know, you don't get to use that. No, Jack was there. And so, he was able to help select the sites but when they were on the ground, he was -- you know, everyone got a -- basically a master's degree in geology as part of their training. But he already had a PhD and was one of those people who trained the other astronauts in geology. And so, he really was able to spot and collect things from a different perspective. Host: Okay. And was -- did he have a part in deciding where they were going to land and what things to pick up and bring back? Ryan Zeigler: I'm sure he did. And I mean he started to tell a story at a meeting a couple months ago, about well, that's not how we selected that site. And he never finished the story, so I don't have the whole story yet. But I don't think the sites were selected that far ahead of time. As they were leading up to a new mission, the scientists and Jack, because he's one of the scientists, would get together and talk about where they wanted to go from science priorities. And then the mission safety people would be like, yeah, we're not landing in the middle of Tycho Crater, that's crazy, and then there would be some back-and-forth. And -- but yeah, no, Jack was definitely part of that discussion. Host: Okay cool. So, what were -- what were some of the -- besides titanium -- what were some of the more interesting things that you found? Because there's a finite number of samples we have from the moon, right? So, what are -- were some of the most interesting things that we found from those samples? Ryan Zeigler: Well, they're really old. I mean -- and that's -- that sounds very basic. But essentially, every rock from the moon is older than every rock on Earth. It's not perfectly true. There's some overlap in the middle. There's like four places on Earth where they're that old. But it turns -- so the moon is just an ancient body. The fact that everything was either a volcanic process of basalts, like what you'd see in Hawaii, or breccia, something from impact, that threw people off. There was no water on the moon and that's not true anymore. But compared to terrestrial rocks, which every rock you pick up on Earth has a mineral with water in it and they couldn't find any water in lunar samples until about 10 years ago. And it was only when instruments had evolved to the point where they could measure lower concentrations and new scientists came along and said, this doesn't make sense. We need to re-examine these. And so, there was a little bit of missed from earlier. But the moon is a very dry place and that throws people off. Host: So, you said there's-- parts of it, you said it's not true anymore. Ten years ago, we discovered there's a little bit of water on the moon. What was the instrument that found that and where is it? Ryan Zeigler: It was something called the SIMS, the secondary ion mass spectroscopy. And so, what you do is you take the sample, you bombard the surface with ions, either positively or negatively charged, and then that sputters off what's there. And before, we were using an electron probe, where you're doing essentially the same thing, but with electrons. And they just -- they started looking at a mineral called apatite and on every other planet where you find that mineral, there's water in it. And then when they started looking at it on the moon, there was a fair amount of water in it. And so -- and it was one of those cases where the analytical instruments in the '70s were very good, and Apollo helped revolutionized them. But the little bit of water -- the little bit that was missing, they just assumed was analytical error, and it was very hard to directly detect water because you're not doing it by mass, you're doing it by energy and so -- anyway. So, they -- so this -- these new instruments -- which weren't new in the -- in the 2000s. They were invented in the -- in the '80s. But by the 2000s, when new scientists came along, that's when they started to figure it out. Host: Okay. Isn't it also true that there are -- on the polar ends of the moon, there are [inaudible] shaded areas that have I guess never seen the Sun, are their deposits of water there too? Ryan Zeigler: Almost certainly. We have limited direct evidence of that, but we have a lot of circumstantial evidence. There's extra hydrogen there, so what's the hydrogen there as? They -- you get a different radar back scatter out of there and one of the only things that causes that is ice. And so, they did have the L Cross mission, which landed in one of these permanently shadowed regions, put up a plume of debris, and then it flew through it. And they did detect water, and so we do have some direct evidence, but -- so that's a different kind of water. So, I'm talking about water that came from the interior of the -- of the -- of the planet. And the water that's at the poles probably is from comets and meteorites slamming into the surface over time. And the ice that's in that, sort of migrating along the surface, and then freezing down in these cold areas. And so, I -- you know, I'm talking about intrinsic water to the moon versus external water. The external water might be more interesting for like refueling spacecraft someday. Intrinsic water, it's very minor and so it's always going to be of geologic interest, but probably not economic importance. Host: I see. So, when you say that you were looking at rocks and using these instruments to find little -- you know, use a different type of method to discover the water inside the rock, that was here on Earth, right? That was here -- Ryan Zeigler: All of that was done on Earth. In fact, the -- in Apollo missions -- I mean you see the Mars missions now and they have Rovers and they do all these cool measurements on the -- on Mars, they didn't do that on Apollo. They had some surface experiments where they did some geophysical experiments on the surface, but that was on the moon, as a whole, and not on the rocks. The rocks were really not studied until they came back because anything they might have done on the surface could be done much better back on Earth. And since they knew they were bringing the rocks back anyway, they didn't spend any mass, or time, or energy on that. They just collected the rocks and brought them back. Host: Plus, you risk the chance of contamination. Ryan Zeigler: Exactly. I mean we have a lot of talk now about, you know, what could be done on samples like on the way back and the answer is always like, don't touch the samples, just bring them back. Just don't touch the samples. We'll do it when you get them back here. And we is not me, and we is not NASA. We, is this -- the larger scientific community on the planet. And so, I keep using the royal we. And as my dad always asked, do you have a mouse in your pocket? No, it's just, you know, it's a very large and active science community that studies all these samples. Host: Well, and the -- and one of the more important parts about that is there is a finite number of samples that you have, right? Ryan Zeigler: There is. There is. Host: So, whenever they're bringing these samples back, the story from the Apollo days, what were some of the facilities that they were bringing them back to? What were some of the methods to make sure that they were acquired safely and properly? Ryan Zeigler: So, they had designed Building 37 here at Johnson Space Center was the Lunar Receiving Lab and they finished that in 1967, so a couple years before it came back. Because they had no real idea what lunar samples were like and because everyone has read War of the Worlds, they actually designed it as a quarantine facility. And so, both the astronauts and the samples went into quarantine for 21 days after Apollo's 11, 12, and 14, to make sure all the bugs from the moon didn't kill all life on Earth. And now once they got to the surface and they realized there was no water, and really no atmosphere, and they already knew that, they're like, there's no bugs in these samples. But through an abundance of caution, for the first three missions, they kept the quarantine going. And so, that was a facility designed to keep everything in, so everything leaked in. And the problem with that is everything leaks in on the samples, and we're trying to keep the samples clean. And so, once they realized, no, this isn't -- you know, this isn't a concern, we're not trying to keep the bugs in. They redesigned laboratories in the building next door -- in Building 31. And within about three or four years, they moved over and put most of the samples there in a positive pressure laboratory, where everything leaked out and everything leaked away from the samples. And the samples were stored in glove boxes surrounded by nitrogen and no one ever touched them, no one ever breathed on them, or coughed on them, like me. And so, yeah. So, that was -- that was a pretty quick change they had to make. Host: Okay. So, some of the later Apollo missions -- the samples collected from those I guess have some of the more pristine samples that you have here because of this method? Ryan Zeigler: Sort of. I mean there's more of them and so some of them were able to be held in reserve. But all of them originally came back and were open and then -- and initially analyzed in their lunar -- in the LRL, in the Lunar Receiving Lab. And then it wasn't till like '73, '74, when all of the samples got moved over to the next -- to the next thing, so yeah. Host: So, then the actual study of -- or the actual process of studying, what's that like? What is -- what do you do to actually figure out what's inside? Ryan Zeigler: Wow. There's so many different studies. So, I've been the Apollo curator for about six years now and I've had almost 400 individual requests to analyze sample. So, I'd like to go through them one by one -- no? Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. No, it could be a long podcast. You know, if you -- if you look at all of the collections in total, a lot of effort goes into dating the samples. And you would think, yeah, we already know the date of them. Well, as instruments and scientists get better -- oh, man -- the way they age date the samples has been refined over time. And there's a couple different camps still trying to figure out exactly the age of the moon. A lot of study has been on the new water they found. But there's even esoteric things. Like a guy in the UK wanted samples to do spectroscopy to figure out if he could see life on planet -- on exoplanets. And so, all life on Earth has a chirality, it's all left-handed or right-handed, and I'm not a biologist, so I don't remember. But if you look at the light that reflects off an atmosphere with that light in it, can have a chirality to it. And so, they're from orbit and Earth, they're trying to do that. And one of the main sources of contamination for them is light bouncing off the moon. So, he needed to see what light bouncing off the moon looked like to put into his equations to understand whether they could see life on exoplanets from their atmospheres -- from spectroscopy of their atmospheres. And so, every-- I mean everything in between. It's just crazy how diverse Apollo samples and samples, in general, can be used. Host: So, it's fair to say you're still studying them though, right? Ryan Zeigler: Oh, absolutely. This year, I -- you know, we have -- a new batch of requests just came in and we have 36 new requests for the -- to be considered by the committee that reviews all of these and they'll do that next month, so. I -- they might find out about it on here. They don't know how many we got, so they might be a little dismayed at how much work they have to do. Host: We'll put this out a little bit later, so we don't have any spoilers. Ryan Zeigler: No, that's okay. They wouldn't listen to me anyway. Host: Okay, so when you're cracking them open -- and some of the -- some of the first times you were actually -- you -- now you have scientists that have their hands on these lunar samples -- the first time. Ryan Zeigler: They better not. Host: Well, oh, okay. They have -- they have protective gloving -- gloves and -- Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Host: Proper equipment to analyze the samples for the first time, first time humans have ever done that. What were some -- was some of the first things that they wanted to look at and some of the first things that they found? Ryan Zeigler: So, some of the very first measurements that were done, after the Apollo 11 samples came back, were actually done here. So, the LRL was both the containment facility and the curation facility, but it also had a certain number of built-in instruments to do some of these initial preliminary examinations. And one of them was to look at the radiation in the sample. Now everyone hears radiation and thinks, Chernobyl or -- no, what they're trying to see is the natural radiation that every rock has. And so, they built a special pit underneath Building 37 that was lined with dunnite, a special type of rock from Earth, battleship armor from pre-nuclear tests. So, the -- it could drive down the low levels of natural background radiation. Put the samples in front of a detector and then see just how much radiation was coming off of these. And so that was one of the very first things done. They had a gas lab to see what kind of gases came off it, whether there was a, you know, measuring the solar wind. So, it was -- it was measurements like that that were initially done at Johnson Space Center. And then almost immediately after those initial measurements were done, they went out to I think 50 or 60 different groups around the country who were pre-approved, and they all had different stuff they were doing. Host: Unbelievable. So, I guess to work with this and to find out something specific, right, if you wanted to find out something more about radiation, there's something special that you have to design, something special that you have to do. It's not just chiseling at it and looking at it and say, ah, there's the radiation. There's like this huge -- this very unique type of experiment and facility that you have to design. Ryan Zeigler: Right. And that particular facility was both expensive and time-consuming. And so, that was the kind of thing that NASA was going to take on, where -- because they could use Apollo money on it. And then other things that didn't require quite such specialized equipment, that could be done better by the experts in those individual fields at the different universities and other institutions. Host: There you go. Okay, so I'm assuming that one of the main objectives, when you have these samples of moon rocks, is to find out what happened to the moon. What was the formation of the moon? So, does some of your findings support Giant Impact Theory? Ryan Zeigler: I think, at this point, pretty much all of the findings support Giant Impact. Now there's still -- yeah. I mean there's still a little bit of debate about how big the impactor was, or the exact timing, or -- but as far as I know -- and I go to all of these conferences, whether I like it or not, I'm -- and, you know, keep an eye on these guys. And no, I mean everyone -- no one's arguing about -- at these science conference -- whether there was a Giant Impact. They're arguing about the details of the Giant Impact. I know there are one or two holdouts, but that they are being increasingly marginalized, just by the -- by the data that's coming off the samples. Host: So, we can pretty much sit down and say, yeah, it was some kind of Giant Impact Theory that formed it. Ryan Zeigler: At this point, yes. I mean, although if you'd asked me 10 years ago if there was any water on the moon, I would have said absolutely not and everyone agrees on that. And so -- but there's physics involved here and I don't understand physics because I'm a geologists. But I mean the angular momentum of the Earth-moon system and the spin and all that, that's really hard to do any other way. And that's not going to change, like we're not going to learn how to measure angular momentum better. So, I don't think the Giant Impact is going away, yeah. Ryan Zeigler: Okay. Okay. That's fair. So, kind of going back to some of the facilities that you have. I'm imagining -- I'm imagining these guys in gloves and you said, oh, no, they're not going to be touching it. They're going to be wearing proper equipment and they're going to be using -- you know, they're going to make sure they're not -- nothing's going to get contaminated. What does that look like? What is this -- you say, bunny suit? Ryan Zeigler: Well, so in our lab, if you want to come and study the samples -- so, yeah, you would put on a full bunny suit. Think white polyester suit head-to-toe. Host: Okay. Ryan Zeigler: Basically, a pair of coveralls, cloth gloves, a hat. Not -- we don't have to wear masks most of the time. And then over boots. And then you go into a laboratory that's sterile -- not sterile because they're -- that's very clean. And then the samples are inside the cabinets. And then you put your hands through neoprene gloves and then if you needed to handle the samples, themselves, on the inside of the neoprene gloves -- excuse me -- you would put Teflon gloves. And so, you can only touch the samples with Teflon, or aluminum, or steel. So, you would have to actually handle the samples in our laboratory through three layers of gloves, inside of a controlled atmosphere cabinet. Yeah. And so, now not everyone in their own lab has to do that because we have to keep the samples ready for anyone to do anything, as near as we can. If somebody knows that they're not going to contaminate the samples by handling them in air, what -- when I did this at Washington University in Saint Louis, before I came here, we had a clean flow bench. We would take the samples to JSC [inaudible]. We would open them, we would pour them out, then you rinse them off with acetone, you get some of the dust off. Picked them up with tweezers, never touched them with my hands, despite what the pictures show. And then we would get them ready and when we send them off to the reactor to do -- to do -- to do measurements and stuff like that. So, clean space, controlled atmosphere, but not a controlled atmosphere -- sorry. Not inside of a nitrogen glovebox. And that's -- most people don't have the glove boxes we have. They cost a quarter of a million dollars each and there's all this infrastructure that goes into it, so. Host: Wow. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. No. Host: Take your moon rocks very seriously. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah, well we spent 24 billion dollars to bring them back, we ought to -- we ought to keep -- you know, okay, we're trying to keep them safe for long term. Host: Exactly. And like you said, you're still studying them and there's still a lot of things to be discovered. So, the last thing you need is to -- is to waste any of the samples. Ryan Zeigler: You don't get to have two bad days in curation. You have one bad -- you can't un-contaminate a sample. If something goes wrong and water got on the samples, it's always going to have had water on it and it will eliminate certain number of measurements. And so, no, we -- yeah, you're right. We do -- we have procedures -- I mean I used to make fun of procedures before I came to NASA. Now I really make fun of procedures, but I understand why they're important and why we have them. And so -- and we have like 160 of them to run the lab and all the different things we have to do to them. Yeah. Host: Wow. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Auditors love us because we've got everything written down. It's great. Yeah. Host: Okay. So, then that brings me to the thought that there's a finite number of -- or finite amount of moon rocks that you have. So, how do you keep track of it? How do you make sure that you have -- that you're taking advantage of this finite amount? Ryan Zeigler: With great effort. So, every sample that we loan to a scientist to do study on -- to do a study on, we keep track of. And everything's a loan and they have to return it. So, if they destroy it, as part of the analysis, then great, then they have better have had permission to do that. Then that's great, we mark that off. But anything else, they would study, and they would come back. And so, once a year, I send them all an inventory, and they have to check off and they say, yes, I have all these samples or no I don't, in which case bad things happen. And no one ever says, no, I don't. They're very, very conscientious. And so, 125 inventories a year gets sent out and I have to -- you know, we all - we all take care of it. Now we do in -- an internal inventory with JSC security where once a year -- or once every other year, they come by and they ask us to find every sample for them. And so -- yeah, no. And so, we have to meet the same bar as everyone else, just every other year, because we have 100,000 samples and most scientists have 50 or 100, so. Host: So, the interesting thing about the moon rocks is that you're still -- you've collected them so long ago but you're still finding stuff out, right? And so -- so what are the -- some of the more recent findings that you've been having? Ryan Zeigler: Well, one of the more recent findings that has come out and in the last five or six years was that perhaps the Solar System didn't form the way we originally thought it did. People noticed that there was a preponderance of samples on the moon that are 3.9 billion years old. Now the age, itself, doesn't matter to you or me. But within the Solar -- and they were all formed by giant impacts. Now 600 million years after the Solar System formed, there shouldn't be a bunch of giant impacts. Everything should have quieted down by that. So, for -- to explain the lunar samples, they had to come up with a new dynamical model for the evolution of the entire Solar System. So, originally, it was -- the new one was called the Nice Model because it was formed by a bunch of scientists in Nice, France, which I hope is true or I'm going to get phone calls. And that said that Jupiter, and Saturn, and Uranus, and Neptune all formed in much closer to the Sun. They gravitationally interacted and then they spread out 3.9 million years ago. And when they did that, they took all of the asteroids and comments and spun them around the Solar System and that caused the Giant Impacts. Now people don't like the Nice Model anymore. Now they have something called the Grand Tack Model, but it doesn't matter. Any of the models for planetary formation actually have to explain the ages that we see in the Apollo samples. Now the ages, themselves, are actually old. They figured that out early on. But no one noticed how many ages were 3.9 and put two and two together with what it meant for the Solar System, as a whole, until more recently. And so -- you know. So, when people ask me what moon rocks can tell you about, I say, well, where Jupiter formed. And they always look at me like I'm lying. Host: Well, it's kind of amazing how we can find so much about our Solar System, just from studying so close to home. I've had a couple conversations with some -- some of the meteorite sample curators and like -- [ Inaudible ] Host: Yeah, I've had conversations with all of them and just the stories that you can find from analyzing these rocks are fantastic. Ryan Zeigler: And it's really nice because the meteorites are all really old. So, almost all the meteorites are older than all the Apollo samples. And all the Apollo samples are older than the Earth. And so, each of them gives you a different window into how the Solar System formed. And if we only had one, we wouldn't know the whole story, or even if we only had two. Having all three is really important to understanding how things work. Host: So, looking towards the future, are there missions that you are kind of planning for for possibly extra curation missions or anything that is going back to the moon to analyze something new? Ryan Zeigler: Well, I mean there was just a big announcement yesterday, obviously, that, you know, NASA is refocusing on the moon and I think want to send people back to the moon. And there was some talk about robotic missions, both to do in situ science, science on the surface, but also to hopefully bring back some samples. I stayed at Wash U to be part of the Moonrise Team, which was a new frontiers mission, so a billion dollar mission, to bring back samples back from the far side. We came in second twice to Juneau and OSIRIS-REx, I'm not bitter, especially while I was at the Juneau -- at the -- at the OSIRIS-REx launch. No. And then this most recent time, they just down selected Caesar and Dragonfly as the finalists for the next round of New Frontiers, so Moonrise won't go either. But within those two, Caesar is a sample return mission. It is a sample return mission from the surface of a comet. So, there was a Rosetta Mission by Europe and it went and it -- you know, it went into orbit around a comet. And then sent a lander and then studied that and I don't know that much about it. And I don't know that much about Caesar yet because it's brand new. But their plan is to bring back samples from the surface, both gas and ice, and I think rock samples, back from the surface of a comet, to Johnson Space Center, where we will curate them. So, we're going to have to figure out how to curate gas and ice. Host: Oh, yeah. Ryan Zeigler: And it's not that we don't have an idea. We do but we have never had to do it before. And so, we're going to spend the next -- luckily, we have about 15 years to build up the capabilities to get ready for that. Host: Okay, so capabilities in terms of facilities. Ryan Zeigler: Right. So, I mean keeping ice cold is easy. There's lots of ice labs around the country. But if you want to treat that ice like we treat rocks, where you're going to subdivide it, and that's different. If you want to work on it cold, that's harder. And also, there's cold and then there's cold. So, minus 20, great, that's easy. We can do that with a freezer. Minus 80, oh, that takes robotics and [inaudible] minus 160, like do you really want to keep it like the temperatures on the comet, itself? And these are things we still don't know all the answers to and we don't even know the requirements yet. But this is going to be what we spend the next decade figuring out. Host: Okay. All right. Well, best of luck to you. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Yeah. Host: It's going to be a long process. Ryan, thank you so much for coming on. That was -- that was fantastic to learn about everything -- all these moon rocks. I've been dying to have this conversation. Ryan Zeigler: It was my pleasure. Host: Fantastic. And it's crazy what the moon rocks can tell you, just from looking at these and that we're still finding stuff out and just, you know, the story of water that has to -- you have to rethink these thoughts that -- and findings from decades ago because there's something new that we found. So, it'll be interesting to see what comes up in the future. Ryan Zeigler: Yeah. Absolutely. Host: All right. Very cool. Thanks for coming on. Ryan Zeigler: All right. My pleasure. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, today, we talked with Ryan Ziegler about moon rocks and the facilities that are keeping them. And honestly, we're still hurting so much from these rocks. If you want to know more about the rocks, you can go to the ARES site, that's our Astromaterials group. It's ares.jsc.nasa.gov. You can go to that site also to find out how to get your hands on a meteorite sample if you actually want to study meteorites or moon rocks. On social media, you can follow the NASA Johnson Space Center accounts or the Astromaterials accounts, they have their own on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. You can go to any one of those accounts and use the hashtag ask NASA to submit an idea or question for the show or for I guess any other reason. But if you want it to be brought right here on Houston, we have a podcast, just make sure to mention the show, and then we'll actually bring it on, maybe answer it, or dedicate an entire episode to it. We have done in the past. This podcast episode was recorded on February 14, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, and Tracy Calhoun, and Jenny Knotts. Thanks again to Dr. Ryan Zeigler for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

"Yeah, We Serve Alcohol, but … We Are Here to Help": A Qualitative Analysis of Bar Staff's Perceptions of Sexual Violence.

PubMed

Powers, Ráchael A; Leili, Jennifer

2016-01-01

This study is an exploratory analysis of how bar staff perceive their role in preventing sexual harassment and assault. In particular, through qualitative focus group interviews, this study explores bar staff's attitudes surrounding sexual harassment/assault, how they currently handle these situations, and their opinions regarding programs and policies that currently mandate responsibility. Six major themes emerged including their hesitation to discuss sexual violence, their unique position as a service provider, their lack of knowledge (but eagerness to learn), and their reliance on stereotypical scenarios of sexual violence and interventions. These findings are situated in a framework for understanding barriers to bystander intervention and implications for community-based bystander programs are discussed.

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 1: International Space Station

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-07-07

>> Houston, we have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode one, International Space Station. I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host today. So, on this podcast, we'll be bringing in the experts-- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts-- pretty much all the folks that have the coolest information, stuff you really want to know, right on the show and tell you more about all things NASA. We're talking everything from extraterrestrial dirt to the unknown parts of the universe. So, today, on the first episode ever, we're talking International Space Station with Dan Huot. He's the public affairs office for the space station program here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas and we had a great discussion about what the International Space Station is, how it works, what it's made of, and why it's there. So, with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Dan Huot. Enjoy. [ Music ] >> T minus five seconds and counting. Mark. >> Here she goes. >> Houston, we have a podcast. [ Music ] >> That's true. Very true. So, anyway, let's begin. I figured you're the perfect person to have here, being the public affairs officer of the International Space Station. You talk to scientists, astronauts, engineers constantly, so you're very aware of what's going on and everything about the space station. So, for those of you listening, I think this is a good opportunity to learn just everything about it. Right? So, start from the very beginning. What is it? >> Everything. Awesome. Well, to start, in the beginning-- no. So, the space station is-- it's a giant spaceship. I mean it is-- it is the largest spacecraft that humans have ever built. And we haven't been flying in space for too long, relatively, I mean we've been up there for 50 or 60 years, but the space station is kind of the pinnacle for what we've built so far. It is massive. I mean this thing supports multiple people. It's been up there-- at least pieces of it-- since 1998. So, that's another one of those factoid alerts that we always like to tell people. If you were born after the year 1998-- spacecraft's always been up there, but if you were born after the year-- after November of 2000, as long as you've been alive, human beings have been living and working in space. >> Wow. >> We are aliens. We are a space-faring species. We are the ones off the planet. We've had people up there every single day for-- as of right now, over 16 years. I mean that is mind-blowing. And they're doing stuff every single day that's either going to impact us here on Earth or get us ready to go further out. I mean that is the purpose of the space station. That's why it's up there. That's why we have this huge thing floating above us. >> So, you say stuff, we're doing stuff every day. Obviously, living up there I think is like a-- is a big part of it, right? We're-- like you said, we're explorers, we're space farers. What is the stuff that's actually, you know, that has that impact? >> It's a lot of stuff. It's a lot of stuff. And I mean it is-- it is-- and it's divided up. It is as simple as just living in space. Just everything you do in space is a little bit different than the way you do it down here on Earth. I mean it could be anything from going to the bathroom to how you eat to just how you get your water. Everything is different. >> So, it's like a way to practice, really, for-- >> It is. >> For things further out. Because it's not really far up, right? It's only 250 miles. If you think about it, we're still in the Earth's protection. Like, we're still protected by the Earth's magnetic field. >> Well, space is funny in that going up-- it feels like it's so far away, space, but it's 250 miles. That's not that far. I mean I feel like the city of Houston is 250 miles. It's not, but I mean 250 miles in a car is a short road trip, but 250 miles straight up, that's a rocket ride. That's a slightly different road trip, but it is-- it isn't that far away. I mean we still kind of are right on the doorstep. There's a really great quote in the paramount of space movies, Armageddon, where Owen Wilson says, you know, we're not even in outer space yet. This is just like the beginning. And that's kind of where the station is. It's in space, it's in what we call low Earth orbit. So, still pretty close. I mean they could get in a Soyuz spacecraft and be back on the ground inside of a couple hours. So, I mean you're still right on the doorstep. You're not really way out there yet, but it's getting us ready to go way out there. >> Well, that's the whole-- so, NASA describes it as Earth-reliant, right? So, I kind of like the way they section it off, right, Earth-reliant means exactly what you said. Right? So, if something goes wrong, you can just hop in a spacecraft and be home in three hours and it's easy to get stuff there because it's only a-- I mean some Soyuz rides have been as little as six hours, right? >> Relatively easy. >> Relative-- >> Going to space is, yeah-- >> It's only rocket science. >> Don't want to trivialize it. It's still-- and even-- that's-- I even have to admonish myself. It's still not easy to go to space. It's still-- I mean it is rocket science. It's literal rocket science, which is hugely complex and there's always inherent risk and all these other things, but when you start comparing it to, you know, going to Mars or our far-flung aspirations of spreading throughout the solar system and the galaxy and everything, when you compare it to that, it's, you know, doing hand quotes, easy. But it's still a monumental undertaking. >> Yeah. And that's why-- so, we're doing that-- just like you said, in the future we want to go farther. Right? So, we want to go to Mars, we want to really just expand our presence in the solar system. So, the International Space Station is a great way to practice that. It's a good-- like you have a good understanding of what it takes to live in space, to operate in space, you could do a ton of science and learn how things interact and then, if you learn how things interact, you can design better systems to make them work better. I think one of the ones-- I think-- capillary action I think was a great one. Like the way that fluids move in space is kind of cool because they sort of like create a ball and there's no down, so if you're trying to design like a system that-- like a rocket system in order to propel fuel, you need to-- the fuel isn't going to go down, right, it kind of needs to have that sort of capillary action and a path to get there. Like little-- those little tiny things are things that make the huge difference in being able to kind of explore the solar system. >> Well, it all comes to-- down to gravity and that's kind of the ultimate differentiator between why everything we do in outer space is different from the way we do it on Earth. >> Totally. >> Some of the stuff you touch on is very apt. I mean just moving fluids where, you know, here on Earth we almost take it for granted that everything settles towards the bottom. So, in plumbing systems and everything you can use that to your advantage. In space, you don't have that and that affects everything from moving rocket fuel to, you know, I'm an astronaut and I need to get a drink of water. Well, that system has to be specifically designed to work in the absence of gravity. >> Yeah. >> And we've had a lot of practice, you know, since we've been flying in space, since the 60's, but the station is really the first place you've had on this scale-- there have been space stations in the past, both from the U.S. and Russia, but the space station is really the modern cutting-edge test bed for just doing and learning everything about living in space. And so you have all of these different technologies that, like I said earlier, everything you do in space is different from the way you do it on planet Earth where, you know, you have oxygen, thanks to natural cycles. And you have trees scrubbing carbon dioxide from your atmosphere and producing oxygen back for you. You have water and lakes, reservoirs coming-- literally raining down on you from the sky, where in space none of that exists. >> You have to create it. >> You either have to bring it with you or find a way to create it. >> Yeah. >> And that's something that we're doing on the station right now, where you're trying to-- and that's one of those key-- we always talk about the different technologies that you need and technology is a really broad term, but one of the ones that is a lot probably easier to understand is how we get those things. How you get the water, how you get the air, just for the crew members. And one of the things you've got to remember is, again, so we're close to Earth right now, so we can launch water. We can launch air. We can launch all of these things to these crew members, but when they go to Mars, there's no resupply ship. There's no, you know, hey, the water tank's getting low, let's, you know, stop off here and tap it off. You can't do that. So, you've got to bring everything with you and everything is heavy. So, the more stuff you bring with you, the more fuel you need, the more expensive your mission, and then it just kind of compounds on and on and on and on and on. I'm going to ramble here for a while because I love this subject. >> OK. Well, I'll kind of-- I'm not going to stop you, I'm going to kind of, like, redivert you. So, one of the things on the International Space Station they're doing now to do exactly that, so you said things are heavy, right, water. Water especially is very heavy. >> Yes. >> I forget the cost per pound to order-- in order to launch water. >> Always varies. >> Oh, it always-- OK, that's good to know. But I know the-- like, one way they're actually doing-- like, helping that out for long-duration missions is recycling. And the recycling system is just top notch. So good that they actually brought the technology back down to Earth and it actually is helping out third world countries with, you know, not access to any kind of clean drinking water. It's-- like the filtration system is that good. They drink their own urine and they capture sweat and stuff like that, right? >> They do. And that's always a fun ew [phonetic] moment for little kids and stuff when you tell them that, but-- and there's the famous astronaut saying that yesterday's coffee is tomorrow's coffee. To where-- that's what you have to do when you have these weight limits and you're in this environment where, you know, outside your four metal walls is just a vacuum of nothingness. You have to find ways to conserve all of those things and we know very well here on planet Earth that conservation is a very important facet of life. They try to do it through recycling and any number of things. It's 10 times more important when you're in space and there is no, you know, corner store that you can run to and, you know, pick up some water. >> The only things you have are the things you bring with you. >> And so to recycle the water, they actually-- and they do, they collect water from all different sources, whether it's the astronauts' urine, which is a major source, their sweat, condensation in the cabin, any kind of wastewater gets fed through a treatment system which, you know, purifies the water and then puts it back out on the other side for them to continue to reuse. And the percentages seem to vary, but I mean we're reclaiming at least 85% of the astronauts' urine back into potable water. So, drinkable water. I mean that's incredible. And, as you alluded to, we've actually taken that water recycling technology and made it available and it's been used in disadvantaged areas of the world that don't have access to clean drinking water and so that's just a great example of here's a technology that we need for outer space, you know, we're trying to solve a problem off this world where we have the problem, and then we find a completely different use for this technology that it wasn't necessarily designed for. I mean our scientist didn't set out to develop a water filtration system for places without clean drinking water on Earth. >> Right. >> But it ended up having a use there and that's-- we call them spinoffs and that's-- you know, there's a lot of famous ones throughout NASA's history. That's just an example of one that came about with all the work being done on the space station. >> Oh, yeah. You've heard of-- there's a lot of them, right? There's like-- memory foam is another one and like insulation for your house. Stuff like that. Like that-- all that stuff-- >> There's a lot and we produce something called Spinoffs Magazine where-- I mean it goes through just about every spinoff-- every technological spinoff that's come from space-based research that's used here on Earth. And that's just a symptom of doing research and development of this kind of funded research and development. People can find novel uses for technologies that were designed for one thing in a completely different field. >> Totally. OK. So, let's take a step back and so we're talking about like all the experiments and like the reason that we're up there. Who's up there right now? So, you said like, you know, if you're 16-and-a-half, right, I think is the number-- if you're 16-and-a-half or younger, you've never lived in a time where people haven't been in space. How many people are in space right now? >> Six. >> Six. And it-- it's international, right? So, we got-- we have two Americans, right? >> Yeah, so international is the first word in the name of the station. >> Sure. >> It's the International Space Station, so there's always an international crew up there. Right now, there's two Americans, Peggy Whitson and Shane Kimbrough, one French astronaut, Thomas Pesquet, and three Russian cosmonauts. And so you have crew members-- we've had crew members from-- and I'd have to look up the exact number, but I mean countries all over the glob have flown crew members on board the space station. >> Oh, yeah. I want to say 18 I think is the number. >> I think 18 is the latest and you've had well over 200 individuals travel to the space station and it is this global effort. You have 15 countries that are considered the main partnership, so these are the countries that signed all the papers and did everything back in the 90's to form this partnership and you have five main agencies. You have NASA here in the U.S., the Canadian Space Agency right to our north, European Space Agency, which actually incorporates a lot of different space agencies from all over Europe into one larger conglomeration. The Russian space agency, Roscosmos, and the Japanese space agency called JAXA, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. >> Right. >> And so lots of agencies, but all of this alphabet soup comes together to make the station possible and so everything that gets done just about is done in this big collaboration. So, you have these countries with drastic language barriers, cultural differences, sometimes governmental differences all working together on this massive multibillion-dollar piece, science research project. >> I think it's fair to say that space exploration is really a global interest, right? I mean-- exploring the cosmos, it's not just a U.S. unique thing. It is really an international effort to make that possible. >> It's something that will-- as it does now and will certainly in the future involve the human race, not just one country. I mean especially as we continue to expand upon what we've done on the International Space Station and we've even recognized that future missions, there's a lot of reasons to increase international collaboration, whether it's drawing on other countries' expertise, you know, one country's much better at doing one type of engineering than we are and vice versa or they have some kind of novel science. There's also the pooling of resources, which is-- can a lot of times be a major driver. Going to Mars, going to other places is going to be very expensive. >> Yeah. >> And so it makes a lot more sense to shoulder that burden across several countries who all have this kind of shared interest will probably have different main goals, which is true. It's even true on board the space station. Different agencies have different priorities for their research, but we all have that common goal of exploring space, improving the situation for people back here on Earth, and trying to push out further into the cosmos, into the galaxy, into, you know-- making Star Wars a reality. That kind of thing. >> Well, Star Trek. >> Or Star Trek, yeah. Star-- yeah, Star Trek is probably-- >> Star Wars, we don't need to fight. >> Yeah. >> See, when-- I think one of my favorite things really when you think about like global participation is the way that the modules were designed. So, like each of them were just given like specifications this is how it needs to be built and they built them all over the world and then launched them up into space and connected them for the first time in space. Really, everyone had to be working together constantly to make sure that actually happened. And then you have to launch into space, then you have to connect it in space, make sure it works, make sure all the systems are integrated. That's crazy. >> It is. And, again, that comes back to you have these countries with, I mean, language barriers and just completely different ways of engineering and everything, but we built the station piece by piece in outer space. Like you just said, none of these things were connected on the ground the first time, so you better make sure that when you send it up to space it's going to-- like you didn't build a square peg for a round hole kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> So we had-- we-- there are definitely ways to share that knowledge, to share the technology, to make sure that all of your, you know, you can agree on standards, essentially, to make sure everything talks to each other, all the different electronics or all the different structural systems, all these different things. But it was still monumental to build this piece by piece. I mean it was literally done piece by piece. You had elements launched on either Russian proton rockets or carried up in the space shuttle where it would arrive, a big robotic arm would reach in and grab it out of the shuttle payload bay and then they'd attach it and you might have to do space walks and I mean unfurling solar arrays and all of these, you know, gigantic tasks. And it was done piece by piece by people talking and working together all over the planet. And there's really not another engineering project or even big project like that that exists. >> I think it's-- it has been described as one of the greatest engineering feats in human history. >> Not to toot our own horn, but we would certainly-- I would certainly argue that building a football-sized million-pound spacecraft in space is definitely up there. >> Yeah. That is-- I-- yeah, I would rank it number one, but yeah, who am I to say, right? >> We're biased. >> A little bit biased. >> We're a little biased. >> So, OK, let's kind of think about like what it looks like, right, and how it operates. So, we talked about how you don't have access to-- you can't just walk outside or you can't drill for more resources. Everything has to be there, so it's got to have power, it's got to have air, it's got to have water, have all these things. So, let's-- power. Where does it get its main power? >> The sun. >> The sun. >> Everything comes from the sun. It's incredible. And a lot of spacecraft do this because you have the sun. I mean the sun is-- we have solar energy here on Earth, but in outer space you can have even more direct access to the sun. >> It's a very readily-available energy source in space. >> That we know how to harness. >> True. >> We know how to make solar arrays and we have gigantic ones on board the station. So, every-- all the power on station is generated through solar energy. And we had talked about-- they see 16 sunrises and sunsets a day. So, about half the time, they're in complete darkness, so there is no sun. So, what you have is you have these great big solar arrays that are generating power and then there's a bunch of batteries on board and the solar arrays are just charging up those batteries for every time they slip behind the Earth again and they're in nighttime. Those batteries are just supplying power to everything, but it's 100% solar, renewable, clean sun energy. >> Very true. >> it's all solar energy. >> And they're massive, right? Is it-- I think it's-- they actually-- they're so big and they produce so much power that actually they do have to like kind of get rid of some of that power because it's kind-- it's a little bit redundant, right? Just in case one of them breaks, like you still have enough power to power the whole thing. >> You do have redundancy built in. Redundancy is one of our favorite words. Redundancy is a fancy word for back-up plan and at NASA we always-- you have back-up plans for your back-up plans. So, yeah, even if you lose-- we call them power channels-- if you lose one, you lose two, you can still power the majority of all of your systems on board. And even going beyond that, if you lose, you know, a much larger amount of power, you can still power your key systems and everything. You might just power down other things temporarily while you fix the problem. But it-- they generate pretty much a comparable amount to keep everything that we want on board and that's all the life support, that's keeping the lights on, that's running all of the experiments on board, all of the different hardware, just keeping the station, you know, oriented in the right attitude and flying it and any time-- I mean everything. Everything, everything, everything is powered by the solar arrays and it-- I mean it doesn't generate an overwhelming excess of energy by any means, because, again, you are spending a lot of time in darkness, so those batteries are getting used pretty much constantly. >> Oh, yeah. >> We're in the process of swapping the batteries. We're upgrading. >> Yeah. >> We've already upgraded one-fourth of them. >> We switched out nickel hydrogen for lithium ion, right? >> That is correct. >> That's right. Lithium ion. They're way more efficient, right? >> Yeah. But that-- I mean that's the power story. It's all solar energy through those big-- and they are very large and we come back to the football field, the American football field and now that-- >> We haven't clarified yet, have we? >> That the solar arrays are basically-- each solar array is the size of an end zone and there are eight of those. Yes. That are the size of an end-- or-- >> Think like a pair of four of them, right? >> Pair of four, so-- >> Yeah. >> Four. It's tough because like one pair is actually two array blankets and-- but they're very large. >> Yes. Yeah. OK. So, that's power, right? So, we already talked about water because you need to recycle water and make sure you have enough and water is very expensive to launch and if you recycle it it's a lot more efficient and it's very, very clean. So, what about air, right? We-- that's one thing-- you know, you think about like what a human needs-- shelter, water, food-- you don't really think about air because-- but it's something you definitely need in space. >> That's-- again, that's something we kind of take for granted that air is just-- it's air. It's everywhere down here, but up there you're in a sealed environment. You're basically in a big sealed tin can and you need to fill that with air. So, they-- we can launch air, just like we can launch water. You can launch a tank of super pressurized air, usually in its liquid form, and then feed it into the atmosphere, but the main way we get it is from water. We use a system called the oxygen generation system that actually takes water, splits the atom-- not splits the atom, but splits the-- a water molecule into oxygen and hydrogen and then we can take that oxygen and pump it into the atmosphere. And they aren't in a pure oxygen atmosphere, so there's other stuff in there. There's a lot of nitrogen, so-- >> Very similar to Earth's atmosphere, right? >> Yeah, they're basically in the exact same composition atmosphere that we have on Earth. And actually the same pressure too. So, there's no big difference there. That feeds into some of the stuff they have to do for space walks, but that's a completely different tangent I can go on. But-- so, we split the water molecules so then you have your oxygen which you can just feed directly back into the cabin and then you have hydrogen which you can vent overboard if you just build up a bunch of excess hydrogen or there's a process in a payload up there. It's used as more of a technology demonstration, so it's not really in the critical path, so it's not a critical piece that we have to have running at all times, but it's called the Sabatier. It uses the Sabatier process where you can take that hydrogen that you had left over from your water and then you can take the carbon dioxide that gets scrubbed out of the atmosphere by a different device, you split that carbon dioxide, you now have oxygen and then you have your leftover hydrogen. You combine those two and you've got more water. >> Boom. >> And so you can kind of build-- the ideal is to build-- we call it a closed loop. So, everything that gets put into this life support loop-- it's a big circle-- just constantly gets recycled. You've got your water, you drank your water, you recycle your water, you take some of that water and you turn it into air and oxygen, you take that excess hydrogen and you combine it with CO2 that the astronauts are breathing out and you make more water. And so it's all just kind of constantly going around in a circle and that way you get the absolute most out of everything you send up there. >> That's crazy. You actually have to create an atmosphere, right, up there? >> Yes. >> It's not like Earth where it kind of does it for us. You actually have to make it work. That's crazy. I like the Sabatier system. That's cool. You said it was a technology demonstration. I thought it was like part of the whole thing because I know they called it a partially closed loop because, like you said, you can eject the hydrogen if you have too much, right, so it's-- but yeah, same-- kind of the same concept. So, OK, so they have air, they have water, they have power, they have all kinds of stuff. So, let's talk about like I-- the-- some of the experiments. I know one of the biggest one is the experiment on themselves, right? So, you-- in order to actually function beyond low Earth orbit and actually function in space, you have to learn how the human body reacts in space and what happens. So, I think the biggest thing-- maybe it's not the biggest thing, but it's definitely very important is bone loss and muscle degradation. Right? So, that is if you're in space for too long and you're just kind of floating around, your bones start to exhibit symptoms of osteoporosis and your muscles start to degrade. So, how do they counter that? >> Yeah. Well, when we talk research, there's really-- there's kind of two different camps. There's the research that we're doing on board the station to get us ready to, you know, go on to Mars, explore the solar system, all of those other things, which is a lot of what you were just talking about, and then there's the research that has direct applications on Earth and we can dive into that too. That's research flown by commercial companies, by, you know, academia, taking advantage of this microgravity environment because we've seen there's a lot you can learn by taking gravity out of the equation. But, to the first camp, to the, you know, studying the people, the astronauts are guinea pigs kind of thing. The human body is an incredible machine and it's incredible at adapting to different environments. I mean that's both a gift and a curse because when you go into outer space-- I mean your vestibular system, so your sense of up is down, down is up, your balance, all of that goes all out of whack, but within about a day or two, most astronauts don't have the nausea anymore, their body is used to it already and they're able to live and work, which that's incredible. That's a great advantage to just getting into a new environment and hitting the ground running. The problem with that is when you get to an environment where you have gravity again, hitting the ground running can be very problematic because your body, when it's not-- when gravity is not pulling down on you-- so, you and I right now, I mean gravity is pushing down on you at all times and that builds up muscles in your hips and bones in your hips and that's why your legs are strong enough to just hold you upright because they're constantly fighting against that force. On places like the space station, that force disappears and so your body says, hmm, well, I don't need these muscles anymore, so it stops feeding nutrients to those and so you can actually-- astronauts will dispel-- so, in their urine they'll get raised levels of calcium because their bones aren't needing it as much because their bones aren't, you know, getting that much force just by existing. >> They're getting rid of the calcium because you're right, it doesn't-- the body is saying you don't need this anymore. >> And so understanding a lot of those processes is important because-- I mean if the astronauts were just going to stay in microgravity forever, not that big of a deal because their body just adapts and I mean they become space people. But astronauts come back to Earth. Astronauts will walk on Mars where there is gravity-- less gravity, but still gravity and you're going to need to walk around in a pretty heavy space suit and things like that. So, finding ways to counteract-- we call them countermeasures-- for all the ways the body adapts is-- it's something that we've been doing pretty much as long as we've been doing spaceflight, but we've really aggressively pursued it on board the space station. So, for example, bone loss and muscle loss. We've actually pretty much reversed for the most part all of the bone loss and muscle loss. You'll still see changes in bone density in some of the crew members, but a lot of them aren't losing that bone mass, that muscle mass that was such a problem in early long-duration spaceflight. And we do that through exercise. That is-- that is the main driver. There's exercise and there's nutrition, but exercise, the crew members are working out about two hours every single day. I don't know about you, but I don't work out two hours every single day. >> Thirty minutes, I'm pretty much done. >> Yeah. Even that can be hard for some people to find, but the crew members, two hours every single day and that's exercise both cardio and resistance. So, they have a number of devices up there. They have a treadmill, which, again, you need to remember everything-- and this is the running theme-- everything we do in microgravity is different. So, you can't just hop on a treadmill. You'll just float away and you'll just be pumping your legs in microgravity and that does nothing for you. So, the treadmill actually has a harness with basically bungee cables that pulls them down towards the treadmill so that way you're getting the force on your legs, you're actually exerting more force, and you can-- you can run. It's the closest you can get to just running in space. And I mean we've had astronauts run marathons on the treadmill and that's one of their key devices. They also have something called the advance resistive exercise device. I've stayed away from acronyms as much as possible-- >> You're doing a great job. >> So far. But they inevitably come up. We call it ARED and it is-- it's their-- it's basically their home gym on board the station. Now, again, you can't just pick up a heavy weight and do some curls and, you know, get a workout. >> Weight lifting makes no sense in microgravity, yeah. >> There's microgravity-- so I mean they can-- they literally move several-hundred-pound modules and pieces of hardware all the time. And so, to help simulate weight lifting, it actually uses a series of pneumatic tubes to simulate force and they can actually simulate up to 600 pounds of force. >> Nice. >> Which some of the astronauts, their squat-- their squat number goes up when they're up there and it's slightly misleading because they're not squatting their own body weight like they are here on Earth. >> Right. It's still 600 pounds. I don't think I could-- >> Well, I don't think any of them do 600 pounds, but they have the option if we ever get some powerlifters. >> One day. >> Up on board the station. And then they also have a stationary bicycle and then there's another treadmill. So, there's actually-- well, there's two treadmills on board the station, but-- I mean they use all of those two hours a day just-- and that's just to maintain that bone and muscle. And there's also ways you can help that process through nutrition. We're constantly looking is there a better way for them to work out, should they do-- I mean there is something-- there are research projects like Sprint where does it make sense for them to work out, you know, a lot harder but for shorter amount of time. >> Like high intensity interval? Yeah. >> Because two hours is a long time every single day. >> Right. >> That's a lot to ask. But, so-- >> And crew time is very valuable, right? Because they-- I mean you're talking about, like you said, 200-- I think it's 200 experiments per increment, right? And astronauts-- >> Two-hundred-and-fifty is the usual-- is the usual number. In like a six-month span, 250 experiments will happen on board the station. >> That's crazy. So, yeah, crew time is very valuable and that's two hours gone every day from experiment time just to maintain bone and muscle mass. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> But I mean that's just one part of what changes when you're in microgravity. >> Oh, yeah. >> I mean there are-- they-- we-- your body actually has less blood in it by the time you come home. Your heart can change sizes because it doesn't work as hard to pump the blood. And then one of the big outstanding ones that we're still addressing is vision changes. And that's something that we knew about, but was never really considered a huge deal-- not a huge deal, but never really considered a major impact until within the last couple of years when we had a significant amount of astronauts returning from these really long stays in space and reporting that their vision was worse. And it's normal to come back to Earth and have a couple of changes that linger for a little while, but for these crew members, the vision never got better. >> Wow. >> And that's a concern. If you send somebody to Mars and in the nine months or however long it ends up taking to get there, all of the sudden they go from 20/20 to needing glasses to needing even stronger glasses that they don't have available and they land on Mars and they can't see, that's a big issue. >> That's a big one. >> And so we're trying to figure out exactly why this happens. There's a number of good ideas, good hypotheses. We think we know, but we're still doing a lot of tests to figure out exactly why it happens. And, just like the bone and muscle, how do we stop that from happening? >> Hmm. So, you've got to find those countermeasures to make that happen. Wow, that's really intense. I mean imagine get-- like landing on Mars and you can't see anything. >> It'd be kind of a buzzkill. Travel 60 million miles and get out and everything's blurry. >> Yeah. >> That wouldn't make me happy. >> So, I know like when-- here's another thing. When astronauts-- so astronauts-- now they're doing-- on the International Space Station, pretty regularly they're doing long-duration increments, right? So, they're doing six months at a time. >> Yes. >> So, this is longer than any of the shuttle missions, a lot of the missions before it, and it's all to practice for missions beyond low Earth orbit. But when they come back to Earth, right, they generally-- right now they come back in a Soyuz, land in Kazakhstan and then we have recovery teams that go out and get them. But they have a hard time walking, right? When they first-- when they first get out. >> Some do. And so that's part of, again, the human body reacting to the different environments. When astronauts first get into space, some will have nausea, some will have some adverse reactions to being in microgravity. The same is true when you're in microgravity for a really long time and you come back down to Earth. All of the sudden there's this huge weight pressing down on you that hasn't been there for the last six months or for however long you were in there. There's-- your inner ear goes crazy and like, oh, all the fluids pulling down again. Where am I? There used to be no up and down, but now all the sudden there's definitely a down and so it can be tough just to-- just to walk. I mean we-- we will-- we have teams that pretty much carry the astronauts out of the spacecraft and then on to a medical tent. So, we try to minimize any of that real discomfort and things like that for these crew members, but they are still test subjects and so we still do stuff to them. >> Right. >> And part of that is when-- let's say you're the first person to go to Mars. When you land, there's not going to be anybody there to pull you out of your capsule or help you set up camp. >> Right. >> Or anything like that. >> I'm on my own. >> You're on your own. And so we need to make sure before we send somebody how much can they do on their own. And we have these crew members coming back from extended periods in space and we have ability to test them. And now every astronaut is an incredibly gracious person because not-- a lot of this testing isn't glamorous and it can be-- >> You used the word guinea pig. >> Uncomfortable-- they are guinea pigs in almost every sense of the word where they are subjecting themselves to pokes, prods, blood samples, all these different things-- >> For science. >> For science. >> Right. >> For science! Yeah. But one of the things that we do-- and we started doing this in the last couple years-- is called the field test. >> Right. >> So, they'll come home. They'll land in the middle of Kazakhstan, pull them out of the capsule, and then we subject them to a series of-- they sound really simple, but it's just functional tests and it's things like walking a straight line, sitting down and standing up, laying down and standing up. Standing up and having somebody push you a little bit. It's all these things that, you know, that sounds-- that sounds really easy. Like, can I stand up? I can be an astronaut. Well, after spending six months in space, can be a little jarring. It can be a little difficult. And all of that feeds back into the research of, OK, I'm a Mars astronaut, I've been in space for, you know, six to nine months on this trip. I'm now in a gravity environment. You need to design the spacecraft, the habitat, everything to understand that, hey, for the first couple hours, this person might have to just sit in their chair and do nothing or, no, we can reasonably expect them to pop up and, you know, do these simple things. They might not be able to get out of their spacesuit for a couple of hours-- all of these different things have to be figured out before you just shove people into a spacecraft, kick them off the planet and send them somewhere else. But we're doing that. We're doing that right now. >> Yeah. Man, their job is not done when they hit the ground. >> Oh, no. >> You're finally-- you know, after six months being away from home, you hit the ground and you're like ah, finally done, and then they make you stand up, sit down, do all kinds of crazy stuff. >> And it doesn't stop there. >> Oh, that's right. >> And it's-- and, again, when I say they are truly gracious people, they have to sacrifice a lot for this. I mean, you know, obviously they get the great view and they're in outer space and that's amazing, but I mean just training for these missions is usually about two years. So, that's two years of you in intensive training, a lot of travel to all the other partner countries where they train you on different things, six months, so, you know, off the planet with you and just, you know, five of your closest friends, but away from all of your family, everything else happening in your life down here on Earth. You can't-- beyond a phone call and an email, you can't really interact with it. And then when they come home, we shove them in a tent and push them around and make them stand up and do all these other things and then fly them back and then the testing continues. I mean they keep giving samples. They keep doing eye exams. Scott Kelly landed in his one-year mission a little over a year ago. He was just here doing more tests. >> Right. >> I mean it is a real commitment on behalf of these astronauts to do these flights in space. But, again, what they're doing is going to help future astronauts, it's going to help future explorers, I mean everybody down the line will benefit from the work that they're doing. >> That's right. You have a diverse crew of-- or astronaut class, I guess. All the astronauts, they-- you've got all kinds of different people and they all do the same thing. So, you-- so the more that you do, the more you really have an understanding of what's going to happen-- in general, like on average-- I mean it's like a big sample size. Right? So, when you're doing an experiment, you just keep doing the experiments and big sample size and you can learn a lot. >> Yeah. And any researcher will tell you that you need more subjects. You need as many subjects as you can. They always want more people. The more the better, the better the results you can get and it's a good point when you say, like, they're diverse. They are-- where if you think the early days of astronauts, it was, you know, all male test pilots. That's all-- that's all it was. >> Right. >> Now you still have, you know, a lot of military astronauts, but it's a much more heterogeneous mixture. There's a lot of different parts in there where you have a lot more scientists, you have teachers, you have engineers, you have-- I mean we have an astronaut who was up there last year who's a biomedical scientist who has done research on, you know, AIDS in Africa-- like all-- they come from all of these different walks of life. >> Yeah. >> And because a lot of the work that they're doing on station right now, it's not like it used to be. I mean you're not flying a space shuttle anymore. You are essentially a researcher or a research subject for six months while you're up there. So, they're coming from all walks of life now and that's going to continue and just expand more as more and more types of people and more and more people gain access to space, which is the ultimate goal. I mean, ultimately, we want everybody-- if they want-- to be able to go to outer space. >> Right. >> I mean I want to go to outer space. >> I think-- I want to say we all do, but I know there's-- I know there's people who don't. They're like oh, I'm fine on the Earth. Yeah. >> Again, it's-- so, there's always the inherent risk in everything and there are people who, you know-- there's always somebody who doesn't like something. That'll never change, but I mean-- >> Well, regardless, that's what the International Space Station is hoping is to accomplish. It's really helping us to understand that so that that can actually be a possibility later. And the more we do it, the more we learn, the more it can actually become a reality. The fact that it's a reality now is pretty awesome that we can actually do this. Well, Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show. I think that's about all of the time we have today. >> I feel like I just got started. >> I know. >> I've left out so many things that people are going to yell at me about. >> Well, I have like a bunch of questions in front of me, I don't think I-- I think I asked one. I think we just kind of talked afterwards, but thanks again for coming on. Probably have to do another podcast just on the International Space Station, right? >> Oh, we're going to have to do-- >> That was just like skimming the surface. >> Dozens. >> International Space Station one, two, three-- yeah, 12, 13. >> Let's make it an anthology. >> That'll be awesome. Dan, thanks again and stay tuned for-- after the credits or music here to learn where you can submit your ideas and all that kind of stuff. [ Music ] >> Houston, go ahead. >> Space shuttle. >> Roger, zero-G and I feel fine. >> Shuttle has cleared the tower. >> The [inaudible] for all mankind. >> It's actually a huge honor to break a record like this. >> Not because they are easy, but because they are hard. >> Houston, welcome to space. >> Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, today we talked a lot about the International Space Station, but really just kind of skimmed the surface. If you really want to dive deep into some of the topics that we talked about today and maybe some things we didn't talk about, just go to nasa.gov/iss. That's our homepage. That's where all the latest scientific experiments and updates and findings and everything going on with the International Space Station, launches, landings, it's all updated regularly. We have a blog that we like to maintain on that page, as well as all the astronauts that you can follow, the ones both on space station and not on the space station. On social media, we're very active. On Facebook, it's International Space Station, Twitter at space underscore station, and on Instagram it's at ISS. Go to any one of those platforms and we update those regularly. You can even use the hashtag AskNASA on your favorite platform to submit an idea or maybe a question that you have for this podcast. Just make sure to mention that it's for Houston, we have a Podcast or maybe HWHAP I guess would be the acronym for that. Probably have to fix that, but just mention us and we'll try to address your question in one of the later podcasts. This podcast was recorded on March 17th, 2017. Thanks to Alex Perryman [assumed spelling] and John Stohl [assumed spelling] for helping record the episode and, of course, thanks to Dan Huot for coming on the show. So, this show is intended to be weekly and we have a few episodes kind of sitting in the bank, so it may be a few episodes before we get to your question on social media, but please keep them coming. And thanks for listening. So, until next week.

Disseminating General Relativity for 21st century astronomy

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Crosta, Mariateresa

2015-08-01

The talk aims to present two outreach projects - initially developed for the ESA Gaia satellite, a multidisciplinary mission launched on December 19, 2013 - available to the OAD community: NeST and "The Meaning of Light".NeST is an interactive educational tool, that displays how the theory of GR rules the Universe, it creates a performance physically "belonging" to the exhibition space and moving through it, materializing what J.A. Wheeler said "mass tells space-time how to curve, and space-time tells mass how to move"."The Meaning of Light" is a short motion comics, part of an extensive outreach program called "The History of Photons" whose main theme is the story of a beam of stellar photons that, after leaving the progenitor star, propagates through the Universe and, once intercepted come into contact with a team of scientists: here begins their adventure to be taken "back" home and in doing so the scientists, and the spectators, are driven to discover the wonders of which the light are the bearers.The description of the journey of the photons becomes, therefore, an opportunity to easily tell the fascinating topics of Astrophysics and General Relativity, i.e. the complexity and the infinite beauty of the Universe in which we live.For this movie a new theme song was produced, "Singing the Stars", whose refrain (Oh Be A Fine Girl / Guy Kiss Me Little Thing, Yeah) adds to the famous mnemonic for stellar classification (OBAFGKM) the new stellar types LTY discovered in recent years.

HWHAP_Ep5_Astronaut-Training

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-08-04

>> HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST. WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL PODCAST OF THE NASA JOHNSON SPACE CENTER, EPISODE 5: ASTRONAUT TRAINING. I’M GARY JORDAN AND I’LL BE YOUR HOST TODAY. SO THIS IS THE PODCAST WHERE WE BRING IN THE EXPERTS-- NASA SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS, ASTRONAUTS-- ALL TO TELL YOU THE COOLEST THINGS ABOUT NASA. SO TODAY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT ASTRONAUT TRAINING WITH RANDY BRESNIK, KNOWN BY HIS COLLEAGUES AS KOMRADE. HE’S A U.S. ASTRONAUT HERE AT THE JOHNSON SPACE CENTER IN HOUSTON, TEXAS. WELL, ACTUALLY, HE’S IN SPACE RIGHT NOW. HE JUST LAUNCHED FROM THE BAIKONUR COSMODROME AND ARRIVED AT THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION LAST WEEK, JULY 28th, TO START HIS LONG DURATION SPACE FLIGHT. BUT BEFORE HE LAUNCHED I HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH HIM, AND WE HAD A GREAT DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT ASTRONAUTS HAVE TO STUDY, KNOW, AND ENDURE TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN SPACE. SO WITH NO FURTHER DELAY, LET’S GO LIGHT SPEED AND JUMP RIGHT INTO OUR TALK WITH MR. RANDY BRESNIK. ENJOY. [ MUSIC ] >> T MINUS FIVE SECONDS AND COUNTING. MARK. [ RADIO CHATTER, MUSIC ] >> HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST. [ MUSIC ] >> ALL RIGHT, WELL, THANKS FOR COMING, RANDY. I KNOW YOU HAD SOME BACK TO BACK STUFF GOING ON TODAY, SO I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING ACTUALLY THE TIME TO SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH ME FOR JUST A LITTLE BIT. AND SO CLOSE TO YOUR LAUNCH, TOO. I KNOW, LIKE, THIS-- IT’S GOING TO BE PRETTY BUSY UP UNTIL THE TIME THAT YOU ACTUALLY ARE IN SPACE. AND MAYBE BY THE TIME THIS PODCAST ACTUALLY GETS LAUNCHED, YOU WILL ACTUALLY BE THERE, SO THIS WILL BE KIND OF APPROPRIATE WITH HOW BUSY AND HOW QUICKLY THINGS ARE MOVING. SO TODAY, I KIND OF WANTED TO TALK ABOUT ASTRONAUT TRAINING. YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO PREPARE YOURSELF TO GO TO SPACE, AND THERE’S JUST SO MUCH-- IT HAS TO BE SO DIVERSE. NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO BE A JACK OF ALL TRADES, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE SORT OF LIKE A MASTER OF ALL OF THEM. I DID WANT TO START OFF WITH, THOUGH, FIRST OF ALL-- I’M READING YOUR NAME HERE. IT’S RANDY “KOMRADE” BRESNIK. WHAT’S THE STORY BEHIND KOMRADE? >> IT’S A CALL SIGN FROM THE MARINE CORPS. I COME FROM THE FIGHTER COMMUNITY, WHERE I WAS FLYING F-18s. AND TYPICALLY WE’VE ALWAYS HISTORICALLY GIVEN CALL SIGNS TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO WORLD WAR II-- “PAPPY” BOYINGTON. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE NICKNAMES THAT PEOPLE HAD. “INDIAN JOE” BAUER, YOU KNOW, WAS A SQUADRON COMMANDER BACK WHEN THE SQUADRON I WAS IN WAS IN WORLD WAR II. AND SO WE HAVE THESE CALL SIGNS, AND YOU GET ONE EITHER FOR YOUR NAME OR FOR SOMETHING YOU DONE STUPID. [ LAUGHTER ] AND SO AN EXAMPLE THAT MAKES IT REALLY EASY FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND IS THERE WAS A GUY WHO WAS IN TRAINING COMMAND. HE’S OUT THERE DOING [ INDISTINCT ] QUALS FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND IN THE CATAPULT GETTING READY TO GET LAUNCHED OFF THE BOW OF THE SHIP. THOSE THINGS ACCELERATE YOU FROM 0 TO 150 KNOTS IN UNDER 2 SECONDS. AND SO YOU ARE GOING FLYING BECAUSE THIS THING HAS SO MUCH MECHANICAL POWER. >> YEAH. >> WELL, HE KEPT HIS FEET ON THE BRAKES. [ LAUGHTER ] BRAKES WERE NOT GOING TO HOLD AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER FROM LAUNCHING HIM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE CATAPULT LAUNCHES, THE BRAKES-- THE BRAKES-- HE WAS HOLDING-- THE TIRES BLOW. AND SO HE ENDED UP WITH THE CALL SIGN “BAM BAM.” [ LAUGHTER ] AND SO, YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T HAVE ANYTHING THAT STUCK UNTIL I GOT TO THE F-18 TRAINING SQUADRON, AND ON MY FIRST FLIGHT WITH A MARINE INSTRUCTOR. AND HE ASKED IF I HAD A CALL SIGN, AND I SAID, “HEY, THEY’VE GIVEN ME THIS, THAT, THAT..." AND HE SAID, “NO, THOSE ALL STINK. I’LL THINK OF SOMETHING.” AND SO WE GO FLYING IN THE F-18. I HAD AN AMAZING TIME. YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE PLANE I ALWAYS WANTED TO FLY. IT WAS JUST A PHENOMENAL AIRPLANE. AND HE COME BACK IN THE DEBRIEF WHEN WE’RE DONE AND HE GOES, “ALL RIGHT, I HAVE A CALL SIGN FOR YOU.” I’M LIKE, “OKAY,” KNOWING THESE THINGS SOMETIMES CAN STICK. HE GOES, “BRESNIK, BRESNIK. THAT SOUNDS LIKE BREZHNEV. WE’RE GOING TO CALL YOU KOMRADE. KOMRADE BREZHNEV. [ LAUGHTER ] AND THAT WAS IT. AND I-- YOU KNOW, HERE I AM QUITE A FEW DECADES LATER, AND HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING STUPID TO GET A NEW ONE. [ LAUGHTER ] >> BREZHNEV AFTER THE SOVIET LEADER? >> LEONID BREZHNEV, YEAH. >> OKAY, AND I GUESS EVERYONE CALLED EACH OTHER KOMRADE AS LIKE A-- >> THAT’S-- DURING SOVIET TIMES THAT WAS HOW EVERYBODY ADDRESSED THEMSELVES. >> HOW-- OKAY, I GET THE REFERENCE NOW. SO JUST AS A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND, BUT-- YOU’RE NAVY AND MARINES, IS THAT CORRECT? >> I AM A-- THE OVERALL ARCHING IS NAVAL AVIATOR, WHICH INCLUDES THE NAVY AND THE MARINE CORPS AVIATORS. WE WEAR THE SAME WINGS ON OUR FL-- WE EARN THE SAME WINGS IN FLIGHT SCHOOL AND WEAR THE SAME WINGS ON OUR FLIGHT SUITS. >> OKAY, SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LAUNCHING OFF OF CARRIERS AND THE MARINES-- >> RIGHT, THAT’S PART OF OUR OVERALL NAVAL AVIATOR TRAINING. SO I WAS TRAINED TO LAUNCH OFF AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER-- LAUNCHED A T-2, A-4, AND AN F-18. BUT THEN AS A MARINE WE DEPLOY EXPEDITIONARITY-- IS THAT EVEN A WORD? [ LAUGHTER ] >> WE’LL MAKE IT A WORD. >> WE’RE EXPEDITION BASED, BUT WE’LL LAUNCH AND ESTABLISH FORWARD BASES AND FLY OUT OF THERE, SO JUST FLYING OFF THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER. >> OKAY, OKAY. NOW, YOU’RE GOING TO BE LAUNCHING SOON-- OR, DEPENDING ON WHEN THIS PODCAST IS RELEASED, YOU’RE IN SPACE RIGHT NOW-- BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR FIRST RODEO, RIGHT? YOU’VE BEEN IN SPACE BEFORE. YOU LAUNCHED IN 2009 ON STS-129 ABOARD ATLANTIS. HOW WAS THAT? >> STS-129 WAS REALLY NEAT. I HAD, FORTUNATELY, A REALLY GREAT CREW. WE HAD TWO MARINE TEST PILOTS, WE HAD TWO NAVY TEST PILOTS, AND WE HAD TWO SMART GUYS. [ LAUGHTER ] OUR SMART GUYS-- YOU KNOW, LELAND MELVIN, HERE HE IS, HE HAD BEEN DRAFTED INTO THE NFL, PLAYING FOOTBALL, BUT HAD A CAREER-ENDING INJURY, BUT HE FINISHED HIS EDUCATION, WENT BACK AND GOT HIS MASTER’S, BECAME A NASA ENGINEER, AND THEN BECAME AN ASTRONAUT. >> AWESOME. >> YEAH, AND THEN BECAUSE WE HAD THE TWO MARINES, YOU NEED TO, YOU KNOW, RAISE THE AVERAGE IQ ON THE FLIGHT, AND SO WE HAD BOBBY SATCHER, WHO IS MIT PhD IN CHEMICAL ENGINEERING, AND THAT WASN’T ENOUGH SO HE WENT TO HARVARD AND BECAME A MEDICAL DOCTOR AS WELL-- YOU KNOW, ONCOLOGIST. AND SO HE WAS THERE TO TRY AND MAKE US ALL LOOK GOOD. >> MM-HMM. >> AND GREAT GUYS. BUTCH WILMORE, MYSELF, AND BOBBY WERE ALL FIRST TIME FLYERS. >> YEAH. >> BUT THE OTHER THREE EXPERIENCED CREW WERE PHENOMENAL MENTORS AND TAUGHT US HOW TO DO WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO ON OUR TRAINING SO WHEN WE WERE ABLE TO GO TO SPACE WE WERE ABLE TO EXECUTE VERY WELL, AND, YOU KNOW, HIT ALL THE TASKS WE NEEDED TO DURING THE MISSION AND CALL IT A SUCCESS. >> NOW, COMPARED TO LIKE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION MISSIONS NOW, I MEAN, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SIX MONTHS ISH ON THE SPACE STATION. >> YEAH. >> THIS WAS RELATIVELY SHORT, RIGHT? JUST OVER TEN DAYS ABOARD. SO I MEAN, YOU REALLY HAD TO SOAK IT ALL IN FOR THOSE TEN DAYS. >> AND IT IS-- WE SAY THE SHUTTLE FLIGHTS WERE A SPRINT AND A STATION FLIGHT IS A MARATHON, YOU KNOW. >> RIGHT. >> YOU-- FOR A SHUTTLE FLIGHT, YOU TRAINED FOR EVERY MINUTE OF THAT FLIGHT BECAUSE IT’S ALL-- ONCE YOU LAUNCH, YOU’VE GOT EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY CHOCK FULL OF EVENTS. >> RIGHT. >> AND SO YOU’RE ABLE TO PRACTICE AND REHEARSE THAT. >> MM-HMM. >> WHEREAS, SPACE STATION, WE DON’T HAVE THAT LUXURY. I MEAN, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING NEXT WEEK BECAUSE SOMETHING MAY BREAK, OR SOMETHING MAY CHANGE, OR PRIORITIES MAY BE ADJUSTED. AND SO WE DO SKILLS BASED TRAINING SO THAT IF I CAN DO THIS PARTICULAR TASK, WELL, I CAN DO A HUNDRED TASKS LIKE THAT. >> AND THIS IS FOR THE SPACE STATION. >> FOR SPACE STATION. >> YEAH. >> AND SO WE DO THE SKILLS BASED TRAINING SO I’VE GOT SKILLS IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT AREAS, AND WE’LL SEE HOW THAT SKILL WILL BE PUT TO USE MAYBE 10 OR 20, 30 DIFFERENT AREAS DURING THOSE 6 MONTHS, BUT I DON’T SIT THERE AND REHEARSE WHAT I’M DOING DAILY. >> RIGHT. SO WHEN YOU WERE ON THE SHUTTLE, YOU DID TWO EVAs, RIGHT? SO YOU REHEARSED THOSE. >> WE DID. >> AND YOU HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH-- YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT YOU WERE DOING. THIS WAS IN THE NEUTRAL BUOYANCY LABORATORY THAT YOU DID THAT? >> THE NEUTRAL BUOYANCY LAB-- WORLD’S LARGEST SWIMMING POOL. >> RIGHT. >> SIX MILLION GALLONS OF WATER. >> A LOT OF WATER. >> YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE SPACE STATION’S UNDERNEATH IT. WE USED TO HAVE THE SHUTTLE IN THERE WHEN WE WERE FLYING SHUTTLE. >> RIGHT. >> AND-- I DON’T KNOW. I’M TALKING WITH MY HANDS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THIS IS A PODCAST. [ LAUGHTER ] BUT YOU KNOW, IT’S JUST A PILOT THING. >> YOU LOOK GOOD WHEN YOU’RE DOING IT. I DON’T-- I CAN JUSTIFY THAT. [ LAUGHTER ] >> AND YOU KNOW, WE REHEARSED EACH EVA SIX OR SEVEN TIMES. I MEAN, EVERY SINGLE TIME, EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE DOING VERY WELL. AND HERE I AM, YOU KNOW, MONDAY I’M GOING FOR MY LAST NBL RUN HERE BEFORE THE FLIGHT. >> MM-HMM. >> AND YOU KNOW, WE’VE DONE A HANDFUL OF RUNS OF A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF SKILLS, NOT KNOWING IF I’LL DO ANY OF THOSE PARTICULAR THINGS I REHEARSED, OR I’LL BE DOING STUFF I COMPLETELY DID NOT REHEARSE. BUT I’VE GOT A WIDE ENOUGH SKILL BASE TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, DO ANYTHING THAT COMES-- YOU KNOW, THAT WE END UP HAVING TO HAVE HAPPEN, EITHER PLANNED OR UNPLANNED. >> YEAH, I MEAN, I HEAR A LOT OF TIMES THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU GO INTO THE NEUTRAL BUOYANCY LABORATORY AND IT KIND OF BECOMES ALMOST MUSCLE MEMORY. YOU KIND OF LIKE KNOW WHERE YOU’RE GOING, YOU KNOW THE, I GUESS, LAY OF THE LAND A LITTLE BIT. >> THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT. >> YEAH. >> YOU KNOW, WITH ANY OF THE TRAINING WE DO, SPACE IS SUCH A UNIQUE ENVIRONMENT PHYSICALLY, BECAUSE YOUR BODY’S FEELING THE WEIGHTLESSNESS. >> MM-HMM. >> VISUALLY, BECAUSE YOU’RE SEEING THE WHOLE EARTH GO UNDERNEATH YOU, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU’RE OUTSIDE IN THAT SPACE SUIT-- YOU KNOW, YOUR OWN PERSONAL SPACECRAFT-- AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU’RE UNDERNEATH AND YOU’RE HOLDING ONTO SOMETHING, AND YOU LOOK DOWN AND YOUR WHOLE LIFE HAD TOLD YOU-- “WOW, THERE’S NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND THE EARTH BUT MY BOOTS, AND THAT’S 200 MILES. IF I LET GO, I’M GOING TO FALL.” BECAUSE YOUR WHOLE LIFE HAS TAUGHT YOU THAT HERE ON EARTH. >> YEAH. >> AND IT’S A PHYSICAL THING YOU HAVE TO OVERCOME. AND SO TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE MUSCLE MEMORY TO GO, “I JUST GO TO THIS SPOT. I PUT MY TETHER HERE. I PULL OUT THIS PIECE OF EQUIPMENT,” YOU CAN RELY ON THAT AND GIVE YOU THE COMFORTABILITY OF THE TRAINING. >> MM-HMM. >> THEN YOU’RE ABLE TO NOT HAVE IT BE SUCH AN OVERWHELMING OR PHYSICALLY STRESSFUL EVENT. >> OKAY. WELL, SO ONE COOL THING ABOUT YOUR TWO EVAs IS SOMETHING HAPPENED IN BETWEEN THERE. YOU WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT? >> SURE. I LEFT EARTH WITH MY WIFE AND SON WATCHING, AND MY DAUGHTER, WHO WAS NINE MONTHS IN THE WOMB AT THE TIME. [ LAUGHTER ] AND YOU KNOW, THE FUNNY THING WAS THE MORNING OF THAT LAUNCH WE STRAP IN, AND THE WEATHER WAS IFFY, AND REALLY, IT WAS GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE A FEW MINUTES BEFORE LAUNCH, YOU KNOW, UP UNTIL 15 MINUTES BEFORE LAUNCH, OUR COMMANDER, WHO HAD THE BEST VIEW, WAS KIND OF GOING, “YEAH, IT’S NOT LOOKING SO GOOD, GUYS.” AND SO WE STARTED KIND OF GETTING PREPARED THAT HEY, WE MIGHT ACTUALLY SCRUB. AND WE’RE HEARING THE CALLS OVER THE RADIO, AND THE GUY WHO’S THE S.T.A. PILOT SAID, “HEY, THERE’S A HOLE THAT’S COMING OVER HERE,” AND WE CAME OUT OF A NINE-MINUTE HOLD BECAUSE THERE WAS A HOLE THAT WAS JUST ALIGNING WEATHER-WISE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO LAUNCH, AND WE CAME OUT OF THAT NINE-MINUTE HOLD GOING, “WE’RE GOING.” WE WERE LIKE, “WOW, THAT’S GREAT!” BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THAT POINT, I KNEW THAT, HEY, I WASN’T GOING TO BE AROUND FOR THE BIRTH OF OUR DAUGHTER. >> RIGHT. >> AND SO WE LAUNCH, WE GET GOING ON THE MISSION, WE GET DOCKED TO THE SPACE STATION, WE KNOCK OUT OUR FIRST SPACEWALK. I’M THE I.V., OR THE GUY BEING BASICALLY THE DIRECTOR OF THE TWO GUYS OUT THERE ON THE EVA. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THE PLAN WAS, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE SHE HAD TO BE INDUCED, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE HER DELIVER THE NEXT DAY, BEFORE MY FIRST EVA. AND SO THEY INDUCED MY WIFE, AND ABIGAIL DIDN’T COME OUT. >> OH! [ LAUGHTER ] >> SHE DID NOT COME. AND SO WE WAKE UP THE NEXT MORNING, AND I’M EXPECTING TO WAKE UP THE MORNING OF MY FIRST EVA AND FIND OUT THAT MY WIFE GAVE BIRTH. WELL, SHE’S STILL IN LABOR. THAT’S NOT GOOD. AND SO-- BUT THE EVAs HAPPEN, AND WE PRACTICE IT THESE SIX TIMES, AND THE MISSION’S GOT TO GO, SO I HAD TO COMPARTMENTALIZE AND GO, “OKAY.” AND WE HAD THE THING-- YOU KNOW, ONCE WE START PREPPING FOR THE EVA, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER HAPPENS, I DON’T FIND OUT ABOUT IT TILL WE ACTUALLY COME BACK IN THE DOOR. SO, GET SUITED UP TO OUR WORK, GO OUT THE DOOR FOR MY FIRST EVA. YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT IT AFTERWARDS I WAS KIND OF EXPECTING WHEN I CAME BACK IN THAT-- TO HEAR THAT SHE WOULD’VE BEEN BORN. >> YEAH. >> AND JUST THINK, “WOW, WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT I’M OUTSIDE ON A SPACEWALK THE SAME TIME MY WIFE’S GIVING BIRTH TO OUR DAUGHTER?” AND SO WE COME BACK IN, YOU KNOW, PUT ON THE RACK, AND THEY PULL OFF OUR HELMET, I’M LIKE-- >> “IS SHE BORN? IS SHE BORN?” >> NOTHING! STILL IN LABOR. >> NO! [ LAUGHTER ] >> SO I’M FEELING REALLY BAD FOR MY WIFE. >> YEAH. >> YOU KNOW, SOMETHING US MEN JUST REALLY DON’T UNDERSTAND, AND TO HAVE IT GO THAT LONG, I KNOW IT’S JUST VERY PAINFUL. AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS. BUT IN THE END, SHE GOT TO BE THERE AND GIVE BIRTH TO OUR DAUGHTER. AND SO THE NEXT-- THAT NIGHT, GO TO SLEEP, AND EXPECTING TO HEAR IN THE MORNING THAT OUR DAUGHTER WAS BORN. I ENDED UP HAVING TO GET UP TO USE THE FACILITIES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, AND I SAW THE KU BAND PASS, SO I QUICK CALLED DOWN, AND GET A HOLD OF HER SISTER ON THE CELL PHONE, AND SHE’S LIKE, “SHE’S STILL IN LABOR.” >> STILL! OH, MY. >> SO I-- YEAH, THEY WERE PRETTY BUSY DOWN THERE, SO I JUST KIND OF PUT THE PHONE DOWN ON THE TABLE NEXT TO THE-- IN THE DELIVERY ROOM, AND SO I WAS ABLE TO HEAR THE SOUNDS OF THE DELIVERY ROOM UNTIL THE KU PASS WENT DOWN, AND TURNS OUT SHE WAS BORN ABOUT 20 MINUTES AFTER THE KU PASS ENDED. >> NO! YOU JUST MISSED IT. >> SO WHEN I GOT UP THE NEXT MORNING, THE MORNING WAKE UP SONG WAS “BUTTERFLY KISSES” THAT MY WIFE HAD PICKED OUT AS THE SONG TO PLAY THE MORNING OUR DAUGHTER’S BORN. >> SO YOU KNEW. >> THAT’S HOW I KNEW, BUT I HADN’T HEARD FROM MY WIFE YET. I SAID, “THEY’RE PLAYING THE SONG. DOES THAT MEAN IT HAPPENED?” SO A FEW MINUTES LATER, THEY PATCHED MY WIFE THROUGH, AND I WAS ABLE TO TALK TO HER. >> THAT IS AMAZING. TALK ABOUT-- I MEAN, YOU USED THE WORD COMPARTMENTALIZE. THAT, I CAN’T EVEN IMAGINE. YOU’RE LIKE-- YOU’RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR WIFE, AND YOU’RE LIKE, “BUT I HAVE THIS EVA TO DO, AND I NEED TO FOCUS.” >> THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, SP-- OUR WHOLE SHUTTLE CREW AND OUR WHOLE STS-129 TEAM AND OUR WHOLE SPACE PROGRAM GOT US TO THAT POINT TO DO THAT EVA TO DO THIS CONSTRUCTION STUFF. >> RIGHT. >> AND YEAH, THERE’S NOT-- FAILURE’S NOT AN OPTION, YOU KNOW. YOU’VE GOT TO FOCUS. >> YEAH. >> AND THEN, CERTAINLY, WHEN YOU’RE OUTSIDE IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL SPACE SUIT-- SPACECRAFT-- YOU KNOW, IN THE MOST INHOSPITABLE LOCATION KNOWN TO MAN BECAUSE IT’S +250 DEGREES IN THE SUN AND -250 DEGREES IN THE SHADE, THERE’S NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. AND SO YOU HAVE TO COMPARTMENTALIZE, AND SO AS A PILOT AND A TEST PILOT THAT WAS THE MOST-- YOU KNOW, THE CULMINATION OF MY CAREER. “I’M IN SPACE. NOW I’M GOING ON A SPACEWALK. THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!” AND THE VIEW WAS JUST INDESCRIBABLY BEAUTIFUL. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THEN THE VERY NEXT DAY, TO HAVE SOMETHING SURPASS THAT WAS JUST VERY FORTUNATE, VERY BLESSED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT. >> WOW. >> I WISH I COULD’VE BEEN THERE FOR MY WIFE AND BEEN THERE AT THE DELIVERY, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS NOT THE PLAN FOR US, AND SO WE WERE JUST GIVEN GRACE WE WERE ABLE TO DO OUR JOBS IN RESPECTIVE AREAS OF THE PLANET-- OR OFF-PLANET-- AND GOOD NEWS AFTER THAT. AND THE NEXT DAY, WAITING THE WHOLE DAY, YOU KNOW, WAITING UNTIL I COULD FINALLY SEE PICTURES. >> RIGHT. >> AND GET A LITTLE VIDEO SENT TO ME. AND THEN A FEW MINUTES AFTER THAT, I WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO GET ON A TWO-WAY VIDEO CONFERENCE WITH MY WIFE AND SEE HER, AND HEAR HER LITTLE VOICE. AND THAT WAS PRETTY SPECIAL, BUT LITERALLY, MY COMMANDER WAS AT THE NODE 2 WAITING UNTIL I FINISHED, KIND OF TAPPING HIS WATCH, BECAUSE AS SOON AS I HUNG UP FROM THAT VIDEO CONFERENCE, I HAD TO FLOAT DOWN INTO THE AIRLOCK AND CLOSE THE HATCH, AND BOBBY SATCHER AND I HAD TO DEPRESS FOR-- DOWN TO 10.2 PSIs FOR THE OVERNIGHT CAMP-OUT TO GET THE NITROGEN OUT OF OUR BODIES FOR THE EVA THE NEXT DAY, WHERE NOW I’M THE EV 1, I’M THE LEAD FOR THE SPACEWALK. >> OH, WOW. >> SO BACK TO THE-- COMPARTMENTALIZE TO THE LAST SPACEWALK OF THE FLIGHT. >> WOW. ALL RIGHT, “MY DAUGHTER’S BORN. THAT’S COOL. OKAY, NOW I’VE GOT TO GO--” YEAH, I-- THAT’S JUST WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. AND THEN THAT WAS A, I GUESS, OVERNIGHT PURGING. THEY DON’T DO THAT ANYMORE, RIGHT? THEY JUST DO-- >> WE DON’T-- WE DO IT-- CALLED IN SUIT LIGHT EXERCISE. >> I SEE. >> WHERE WE’RE ABLE TO USE LESS OVERALL OXYGEN FROM THE STATION TO BE MORE EFFICIENT WITH THE OXYGEN WE HAVE UP THERE. >> AH, MAKES SENSE. OKAY. WELL, SO NOW YOU’RE GEARING UP FOR A SIX-MONTH JOURNEY. SO TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SORT OF TRAINING THAT HAS TO GO-- YOU KNOW, I GUESS, A LITTLE BIT-- HOW IS IT DIFFERENT IN GENERAL FROM SHUTTLE TRAINING? BUT JUST WHAT ALL DO YOU HAVE TO DO TO PREPARE YOURSELF? LIKE, WHAT KINDS OF TRAINING DOES AN ASTRONAUT HAVE TO DO TO BE UP THERE FOR SIX MONTHS? >> CERTAINLY THERE’S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, STATION TRAINING BECAUSE YOU’RE UP THERE FOR SO MUCH AND YOU’VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO DO EVERYTHING. YOU’VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO EXECUTE THE PAYLOADS AND EXPERIMENTS. AT THE SAME TIME, YOU’VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO DO THE EARTH’S OBSERVATION. YOU’VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO DO THE EVENTS, SO TALK TO PEOPLE DOWN HERE ON THE EARTH AND SHARE THE EXPERIENCE, ON TOP OF BEING THE JANITOR. YOU’VE GOT TO CLEAN UP THE VENTS AND WIPE DOWN THE HANDRAILS, AND MAKE SURE THE STATION IS IN CLEAN SITUATION. >> YEAH. >> WE’VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO FIX THINGS THAT BREAK. TOILET BREAKS, YOU’RE NOT CALLING THE PLUMBER. YOU ARE THE PLUMBER! >> YOU ARE THE PLUMBER. >> YEAH, YOU ARE THE SCIENTIST, YOU ARE THE PLUMBER, YOU ARE THE FIX AND REPAIR MAN. >> YEAH. >> AND SO THAT’S WHERE A LOT OF THE TRAINING IS, IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE SKILLS BASED STUFF IS HOW DO I GO AHEAD AND FIX THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF THING? HOW DO I WORK THIS TYPE OF FITTING, WHICH IS ON A HUNDRED DIFFERENT PIECES OF EQUIPMENT, BUT I KNOW HOW TO WORK THAT FITTING, YOU KNOW? >> I SEE. >> IMPORTANT STUFF, LIKE OUR REGENERATIVE ECLS SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL AND LIFE SUPPORT-- THE OXYGEN GENERATOR, THE CARBON DIOXIDE SCRUBBER, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. >> GOT TO LEARN HOW TO FIX THAT, YEAH. >> REALLY IMPORTANT TO STATION, AND SO WE’VE GOT TO LEARN IN DEPTH HOW TO FIX THOSE IF THEY BREAK. >> RIGHT. >> THAT’S THE STUFF THAT WE REALLY-- YOU KNOW, WE’RE PROVING-- I SAY IT’S A PROVING GROUND FOR EXPLORATION, BECAUSE WHEN WE LAUNCH TO MARS, WE CAN’T HAVE SPARE SETUP. WE CAN’T, IF THERE’S A PROBLEM, JUST DEORBIT AND COME BACK TO EARTH IN A COUPLE HOURS. WE’VE GOT TO HAVE IT ALL THERE. IT’S ALL GOT TO WORK, AND IT’S GOT TO KEEP WORKING FOR YEARS AT A TIME TO BE ABLE TO GET THERE, DO OUR MISSION, THEN COME BACK. >> YEAH. >> AND SO WE’RE PROVING THOSE TECHNOLOGIES NOW. >> THAT’S AMAZING. >> AND WITH THE CURRENT TIME WHERE WE DON’T HAVE THE SHUTTLE AND WE DON’T HAVE OUR STARLINER OR OUR DRAGON CREWED VEHICLES YET, OUR ONLY WAY TO SPACE IS THROUGH OUR RUSSIAN PARTNERS. >> THAT’S RIGHT-- SOYUZ. >> AND SO 60% OF THE TIME OF MY LAST YEAR AND A HALF HAS BEEN IN RUSSIA. >> OH! >> TRAINING TO LAUNCH, YOU KNOW, RENDEZVOUS, DOCK, AND THEN LAND ON THE SOYUZ. >> SO WHAT’S YOUR ROLE ON THE SOYUZ? >> ON THE SOYUZ I’M IN THE LEFT SEAT, WHAT THEY CALL THE FLIGHT ENGINEER. >> OKAY. >> AND SO MY RUSSIAN CREWMATE, SERGEY RYAZANSKY, IS IN THE CENTER SEAT. HE’S THE COMMANDER OF THE SOYUZ. AND SO BETWEEN THE TWO OF US, WE WORK AND RUN ALL THE SYSTEMS WITHIN THE SOYUZ. AND THEN OUR FLIGHT ENGINEER NUMBER 2-- NOW, BECAUSE WE’VE CHANGED CREWS A LITTLE BIT HERE RECENTLY-- >> RIGHT. >> PAOLO NESPOLI FROM ITALY. AND SO THE THREE OF US WILL BE LAUNCHING JULY 28th. >> SO 60% OF YOUR TIME, I GUESS, YOU SAID FOR THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF HAS BEEN OVER THERE-- WOW. THAT’S-- IT MUST BE A COMPLICATED SYSTEM THEN, RIGHT? >> IT’S COMPLICATED. THERE’S ALSO THE RUSSIAN SEGMENT TRAINING THAT WE GET, BECAUSE THAT’S A GOOD HALF A STATION. WE TYPICALLY DON’T WORK DOWN THERE DAILY, BUT ESPECIALLY JUST BEING-- I GUESS I’LL BE THE COMMANDER OF THE ISS FOR EXPEDITION 53. I KIND OF NEED TO KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON IN THE WHOLE STATION. >> YEAH. >> SO I GET TRAINING SO I CAN BE HELPFUL TO THOSE GUYS, KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON, AND THEN IF NECESSARY, MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON THE HEALTH OF THE ENTIRE SPACE STATION. >> THAT’S AWESOME. SO WHAT KIND-- YOU KNOW, YOU’RE THERE FOR SO LONG. WHAT ARE YOU GOING OVER? ARE YOU GOING OVER MOSTLY HOW TO WORK THE THING? OR, YOU KNOW, IF THIS GOES WRONG, THIS IS WHAT’S-- LIKE, EMERGENCY SITUATIONS? >> MOSTLY THAT. >> OH, I SEE. >> AND THAT’S THE SAME THING, BECAUSE IT’S A DYNAMIC FLYING VEHICLE. THAT’S THE DANGEROUS PART OF THE MISSION. >> MM-HMM. >> SAME THING WITH SHUTTLE. WE DID SO MANY SIMS JUST FOR ASCENT, ENTRY, AND LANDING. >> MM-HMM. >> AND FORTUNATELY, THE MAJORITY OF THAT TRAINING THAT WE GOT, WE NEVER HAD TO USE. BUT IF YOU HAD TO USE IT, YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT, YOU KNOW. AND IT WAS VERY TIME CRITICAL, SO THAT’S WHY COSTS AND REHEARSAL OVER THOSE THINGS. >> RIGHT. >> NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU’RE IN RUSSIA AND DOING THIS STUFF IN RUSSIA, AND THAT THERE’S A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA MARGIN THAT YOU HAVE TO ADD FOR THAT, BECAUSE THAT’S NOT ONE OF THE EASIER LANGUAGES. >> I HEAR THAT’S ONE OF THE MORE DIFFICULT PARTS OF TRAINING, IS RUSSIAN LANGUAGE. THAT’S-- YOU’RE RIGHT, IT’S VERY DIFFICULT. I’M STARTING TRAINING HERE IN THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS, AND I’M NERVOUS. I’M VERY NERVOUS. [ LAUGHTER ] SO I MEAN, BEING AN ASTRONAUT, THOUGH, IS NOT JUST FLYING THE VEHICLES AND FIXING STUFF, YOU KNOW. YOU HAVE TO BE IN TIP TOP SHAPE, RIGHT? THERE’S A PHYSICAL ELEMENT TO IT. EVERY ASTRONAUT IS JUST IN SUPER GOOD-- DO YOU GUYS HAVE LIKE-- DO YOU HAVE PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS? LIKE YOU HAVE TO WORK OUT THIS MUCH TIME? OR, YOU KNOW, EVEN MEDICAL-- DO YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO, IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, PATCH SOMEONE UP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? >> ALL RIGHT, SO SOUNDS LIKE TWO QUESTIONS THERE. >> I GUESS IT IS TWO QUESTIONS, YES. >> YEAH, CERTAINLY THE WORK OUT POINT, THE BETTER SHAPE YOUR BODY IS IN, THE BETTER IT WILL BE ABLE TO RESPOND AND ADAPT TO ZERO GRAVITY AND THEN MAINTAIN ITSELF WHEN IT DOESN’T HAVE GRAVITY TO HELP KEEP YOUR BONES STRONG AND YOUR MUSCLES STRONG AND ALL THAT. SO THAT’S CERTAINLY ONE OF THE BIGGER CONCERNS ABOUT LEAVING, YOU KNOW, YOU VAN ALLEN RADIATION BELT, WHICH PROTECTS US HERE IN LOW EARTH ORBIT AND ON THE PLANET, AND GOING TO FAR OFF DESTINATIONS. HOW DO WE PROTECT THE PHYSICAL BODY OF THE CREW SO THAT WHEN THEY GET TO SOMEWHERE THEY CAN DO THE EXPLORATION WE WANT TO DO? >> MM-HMM. >> SO THERE’S A LOT OF US EITHER-- THE PROTECTION FROM RADIATION, THERE’S PROTECTION FROM ZERO GRAVITY, AND WE DO HAVE A LOT OF COUNTERMEASURES DOWN. THAT’S WHY SPACE STATION AND BEING UP THERE FOR SIX MONTHS GIVES US REALLY GOOD INSIGHT, IS TO DO-- YOU KNOW, SINCE YOU DON’T GET THE SUN. YOU KNOW, CAN WE UP YOUR VITAMIN D? CAN WE GET THE CERTAIN DIET? CAN WE GET THE PROPER EXERCISE WITH AEROBIC AND ANAEROBIC EXERCISE TO KEEP THE BODY FROM, YOU KNOW, DETERIORATING IN ZERO G, WHICH IT WOULD NORMALLY DO. YOU KNOW, THEY SAY BEING UP THERE IS LIKE A PERSON HAVING OSTEOPOROSIS. AND SO YOU CAN’T JUST DO NOTHING, OTHERWISE YOU COME BACK IN BAD SHAPE HAVING LOST A LOT OF BONE. >> SO YOU TRAIN HOW TO USE THE, I GUESS, WORKOUT EQUIPMENT. >> RIGHT, THE WORKOUT EQUIPMENT, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AMAZING. THE ADVANCED RESISTIVE EXERCISE DEVICE IS A [ INDISTINCT ] THAT DOES ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT STUFF, AND PEOPLE ARE COMING BACK IN BETTER SHAPE THAN THEY LEAVE SOMETIMES. PART IS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO DEDICATE A COUPLE HOURS EVERY DAY TO WORKING OUT. >> RIGHT. >> YOU KNOW, YOUR BODY-- YOU KNOW, HERE ON EARTH, STANDING UP AND SITTING DOWN OUT OF A CHAIR, GETTING OUT OF BED, GETTING OUT OF YOUR CAR, WALKING TO WORK-- THOSE LITTLE THINGS THAT YOU DO IF YOU’RE NOT QUOTE “EXERCISING” LIKE WE WOULD THINK, YOU’RE STILL-- YOUR BODY’S MOVING. IN SPACE, YOU’RE FLOATING AROUND. YOU’RE NOT DOING ANYTHING DIFFICULT ALL DAY LONG. SO THAT’S THE ONLY EXERCISE YOU REALLY GET. >> AH. YEAH, BECAUSE OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE THAT KIND OF NATURAL DETERIORATION. >> YEAH. >> WOW. WE HAD AN EPISODE BEFOREHAND WHERE WE TALKED WITH JOHN CHARLES, WHERE IF YOUR BODY DOESN’T NEED YOUR BONES AND MUSCLES BECAUSE IT’S NOT USING IT AS MUCH, THEN YOUR BODY SAYS, “ALL RIGHT, WE DON’T NEED TO PUT ANY ENERGY TOWARDS THAT.” >> EXACTLY. >> YEAH. >> AND SO THEN THE MEDICAL QUESTION, YEAH, I MEAN, THERE’S NO DOCTORS THERE. SO WE TRAIN TO KIND OF HAVE TELEMEDICINE AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT ARE REALLY-- TECHNOLOGY’S REALLY ALLOWING US TO DO WELL NOW THESE DAYS. >> MM-HMM. >> WE’RE THE EYES AND EARS FOR THE DOCTOR. WE’RE LIKE SPACE EMTs. WE CAN DO THE INITIAL TRIAGE. AND WE TRAIN FOR SOMEBODY WHO’S NOT BREATHING, OR SOMEONE WHO’S HAD-- THEY DON’T HAVE A HEARTBEAT. >> RIGHT. >> WE CAN TAKE CARE OF ALL THAT STUFF ON ORBIT, STABILIZE HIM, AND THEN GET THE DOCS INVOLVED AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO FOLLOW-ON TREATMENT, OR, IF NECESSARY FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCY, EVACUATION OF THE SPACE STATION. >> AND YOU GUYS ARE RUNNING THROUGH THESE PROCEDURES KIND OF REPETITIVELY, I WOULD ASSUME, RIGHT? YEAH. >> YEP, GOT TO BUILD THE MUSCLE MEMORY, YOU KNOW. AND FORTUNATELY WE’VE GOT GREAT PROCEDURES AND GREAT TRAINING THAT ALLOWS IT TO BE-- OKAY, WE CAN GET THE PERSON TO HERE BY STUFF THAT WE’VE LEARNED AND MEMORIZED, AND THEN WE OPEN UP THE [ INDISTINCT ] AND GO, “OKAY, HERE’S WHERE WE’RE AT.” AND THEN WE CAN SYNC UP WITH THE GROUND AND GO, “HERE’S WHAT’S NEXT. HEY, DOC, YOU GOT ANY OTHER IDEA? HERE’S A VIDEO CAMERA PICTURE OF THE PATIENT. HERE’S WHAT WE’RE SEEING. OKAY, WE ALL AGREE. WE SHOULD GIVE HIM THIS PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, MEDICINE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT THEY NEED.” SO IT’S REALLY A GROUP EFFORT. >> I’M IMAGINING-- I WAS A LIFEGUARD WAY BACK IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND I’M IMAGINING JUST KIND OF LIKE THAT BUT A MILLION TIMES MORE COMPLICATED. BECAUSE IT’S THE SAME THING, RIGHT? YOU’RE SITTING AND WATCHING A POOL, BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE SOMETHING GOES WRONG AND YOU’VE GOT TO KNOW WHAT TO DO. SO YOU HAVE KIND OF A UNIQUE SET OF EXPERIENCES. NOT ONLY ARE YOU AN ASTRONAUT, BUT YOU’RE AN AQUANAUT AND A CAVENAUT. I WANT TO START WITH THE CAVENAUT. WHAT IS A CAVENAUT? WHAT DID YOU DO IN A CAVE? I GUESS YOU LIVED IN A CAVE, RIGHT? >> WE DID. THE EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY, BACK IN 2011, STARTED THIS EXPEDITIONARY AND EXTREME ENVIRONMENT TRAINING CALLED CAVES. >> OKAY. >> AND THEY ORIGINALLY PLANNED IT AS KIND OF A COOPERATIVE BEHAVIOR THING, KIND OF MORE OF A-- HOW DO YOU GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE IN-- YOU KNOW, PUT THE ASTRONAUTS ALL TOGETHER AND PUT THEM IN LITTLE STRESSFUL SITUATIONS AND SEE HOW THEY EVOLVE, AND HOW THEY-- YOU KNOW, THE PERSONALITY SKILLS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. >> MM-HMM. >> AND IT WAS IN THE CAVES, THE VAST, VAST UNDERGROUND CAVE SYSTEM IN SARDINIA, ITALY, WHICH IS AN ISLAND OFF THE WEST COAST OF THE MAIN BODY OF ITALY. >> OKAY. >> AND SO YOU START OUT, JUST LIKE ON ANY TRAINING, WITH BASIC CAVING STUFF, AND RAPPELLING, AND CLIMBING. AND THEN YOU WENT INTO [ INDISTINCT ] IN A DAY WHERE YOU’RE IN THESE REALLY NARROW CAVES AND IT’S REALLY WINDING ABOUT, GETTING LOST, AND NAVIGATION, AND BEING ABLE TO GO THROUGH SQUEEZES, AND NAVIGATING THROUGH TINY AREAS OF THE CAVE TO BE ABLE TO OVERCOME ANY CLAUSTROPHOBIA OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. ANOTHER DAY WE DID A WHOLE SPACE PHOTOG-- OR CAVE PHOTOGRAPHY AND HOW TO MAP OUT AND ALLOW US TO MAKE MAPS FROM THE DATA WE COLLECT IN THE CAVES, FROM LASER RANGE FIRED, HOW BIG IS THE ROOM, WHAT SHAPE IS IT, HOW IS THE INCLINATION. PUT THAT ALL TOGETHER TO THE FINAL EXERCISE, WHICH IS A WEEK UNDERGROUND. AND YOU HEAD IN A KILOMETER AND A HALF FROM THE OPENING OF THE CAVE. >> OOH. >> AND THAT’S WHERE THE BASE CAMP WAS. [ LAUGHTER ] AND WE’RE IN THIS TENS OF KILOMETERS LONG CAVE, AND THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THE MAPS ENDED, AND OUR JOB WAS TO GO OUT EVERY DAY AND MAP OUT NEW PARTS OF THE CAVE. SO WE DECIDED WHAT HOLE, DARK SPOT, TO GO INTO AND CHECK OUT-- SEE IF THAT WAS A DEAD END OR IF THAT WAS SOMEWHERE TO GO, AND GOING BACK FURTHER AND FURTHER INTO THE CAVE. AND YOU KNOW, IT’S AMAZING GOING THROUGH A TINY AREA-- KIND OF LIKE SQUEEZING THROUGH A TOILET SEAT, ALMOST, YOU KNOW-- AND OPENING UP TO A CATHEDRAL SIZED ROOM UNDERGROUND. YOU’RE GOING, “HOLY-- I’M UNDERGROUND. LOOK AT THIS HUGE AREA!” >> WHOA. >> THERE WERE NO TRAILS, NO LIGHTS, NO GUARDRAILS. >> RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU’RE MAPPING IT, YOU’RE DISCOVERING IT. >> YOU’RE MAPPING IT. YOU FEEL-- VERY FEW HUMANS HAVE EVER SEEN THIS. >> RIGHT. >> AND IT’S UNLIKE ANYTHING YOU’VE EVER SEEN ON THE EARTH OR SEEN PICTURES OF. I MEAN, IT’S JUST-- >> WOW. >> AND SO YOU GOT THIS REAL FEELING FOR EXPLORING. YOU’RE LIKE, “OKAY, I’M EXCITED AND READY. HEY, WE CAN EITHER GO THIS WAY OR THAT WAY. LET’S GO THAT WAY TODAY AND LET’S SEE WHAT’S OVER THERE!” >> THAT’S SO COOL. >> AND SO IT WAS REALLY, REALLY AN ENJOYABLE THING TO DO WITH THESE OTHER PEOPLE, OTHER ASTRONAUTS WHO ARE JUST AS EXCITED ABOUT THIS EXPLORING, TOO. AND REALLY APPLICABLE TO WHAT WE DO IN SPACE, BECAUSE WHAT THEY FOUND FROM DOING THESE CAVES EXERCISE IS THAT THERE’S A LOT MORE SPACE APPLICATIONS THAN THEY THOUGHT. BECAUSE IN SPACE, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS, BECAUSE EVERY 45 MINUTES, YOU GET A SUNRISE, AND THEN A SUNSET, AND THAT GOES-- HAPPENS 16 TIMES A DAY. >> RIGHT. >> WELL, IN A CAVE IT’S DARK ALL THE TIME, SO YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS. YOU COULD JUST BE MARCHING ALONG, DOING STUFF AND REALIZE, “OH, MY. WHY DO I FEEL TIRED? OH, I’VE BEEN UP FOR 20 HOURS!” YOU KNOW, “I FORGOT TO EAT!” BECAUSE IT’S JUST-- I DIDN’T HAVE, “OH YEAH, IT’S LUNCHTIME,” YOU KNOW. >> YEAH, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO ADJUST, LIKE MAKE UP, ALMOST, A BIOLOGICAL CLOCK AS YOU DON’T HAVE A SUN. >> AND THEY’RE LIKE-- SO THERE’S NO GUARDRAILS, THERE’S NO PATHS. THERE DEFINITELY IS AN APPARENT FEAR OF DEATH. YOU COULD BE DOING STUFF WITH YOUR-- ATTACHED ONTO A GUIDELINE, AND IT COULD BE 200 FEET-- IF YOU TAKE A SLIP AND YOU’RE NOT ATTACHED, YOU’RE 200 FEET. >> WHOA. >> I MEAN, IT’S VERY MUCH LIKE BEING IN SPACE WHERE IF YOU’RE ON A SPACEWALK AND SOMETHING GOES WRONG AND YOU’RE NOT TETHERED PROPERLY, YOU KNOW, IT’S A BAD DAY. >> WOW. DID YOU-- I MEAN, ONCE YOU GOT SET UP, I GUESS, ON BASE CAMP, DID YOU LIGHT UP EVERYTHING SO YOU COULD SEE A LITTLE BIT? OR WAS IT PRETTY MUCH-- >> YOU HAD YOUR HELMET LIGHT. THAT WAS IT. >> THAT WAS IT? THE ENTIRE TIME? >> AND YOU GOT USED TO IT. AND THAT WAS PRETTY NEAT. AND SO THAT MADE PHOTOGRAPHY REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE WHAT YOU WOULD DO IS YOU’D PUT THE THING ON MANUAL, OPEN THE SHUTTER, AND THEN YOU’D TAKE A FLASH. AND YOU’D HIT IT A COUPLE DIFFERENT TIMES AND JUST POINT IT AT DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE CAVE, TRYING TO NOT POINT IT AT THE CAMERA, KIND OF SHIELD IT WITH YOUR BODY, SO YOU COULD LIGHT UP DIFFERENT CELLS. SO IT WAS KIND OF LIKE PAINTING BY THE NUMBERS. YOU’RE JUST PAINTING WITH LIGHTS, WITH THE FLASH, OR EVEN FLASHLIGHTS. YOU COULD ACTUALLY DO, YOU KNOW, SQUIGGLES AND WRITE WORDS WITH THE FLASHLIGHT AND WHAT IT WAS SHOWING ON PLACES. >> WOW. >> SO YOU THEN CLOSE THE SHUTTER AND SEE WHAT SHOWED UP ON THE SCREEN, SEE WHAT YOU GOT, BECAUSE YOU COULDN’T TELL-- THERE WAS FLASH AND LIGHTS MOVING ALL AROUND DURING THE PICTURE. AND THEN YOU LOOK TO SEE WHAT IT ALL AMALGAMATED TO AT THE END. IT WAS REALLY NEAT. >> THAT’S AMAZING. WOW. I GUESS-- WHAT WAS IT LIKE SEEING THE SUN FOR THE FIRST TIME AFTER BEING THERE FOR SO LONG? >> IT WAS REALLY BRIGHT. AND I WAS IN THE CAVE WITH THOMAS PESQUET AND TIM PEAKE. AND WHEN WE CAME OUT, THOMAS WAS LIKE, “THE SKY IS A DIFFERENT BLUE. THEY CHANGED THE BLUE!” IT WAS JUST SO VIBRANT. AND THE OTHER THING THAT WAS SO AMAZING WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SIGHTS AND SOUNDS AND SMELLS IN THE CAVE ARE ALL VERY-- YOU KNOW, VERY MUCH THE SAME. AND WE CAME OUT AFTER THAT WEEK, AND LITERALLY, YOU COULD SMELL EVERY BUSH, AND THE DIRT, AND THE GRASS. I MEAN, IT WAS JUST SHOCKING, JUST SO SENSORY OVERLOAD WITH YOUR SMELL. >> YEAH, BECAUSE I GUESS YOUR BODY ADAPTED TO NOT-- >> TO NOT HAVING IT. >> YEAH. >> AND SO VERY MUCH LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR PEOPLE COMING BACK FROM SPACE STATION, WHERE YOU DON’T HAVE THE FRESH SMELLS, OR THE BREEZE FROM THE WIND THAT MODULATES. YOU HAVE THE CONSTANT BREEZE OF THE AIR DUCTS AND THE VENTILATION SYSTEM. AND CERTAINLY THE SMELLS ARE PRETTY STANDARD UP THERE. AND YOU COME BACK AND YOU JUST-- YOU KNOW, FEELING THE GRASS UNDER YOUR TOES, AND THIS AND THAT. I MEAN, WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE LANDING IN DECEMBER. I’M LIKE-- SMELL-- I’M SURE SNOW WILL HAVE A SMELL WHEN I COME BACK, LIKE, “THAT’S FRESH SNOW! THAT’S AWESOME.” [ LAUGHTER ] >> OKAY, SO WE HAVE LIKE ONE MORE MINUTE, BUT I DID WANT TO ASK, I WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ABOUT THE AQUANAUT EXPERIENCE, WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO LIVE UNDERWATER. >> THAT WAS AMAZING, TOO, BECAUSE I’VE BEEN SCUBA DIVING FOR YEARS, AND JUST LOVED HOW UNIQUE THAT ENVIRONMENT IS, THE WILDLIFE UNDERNEATH THERE. AND THE AQUARIUS HABITAT RIGHT NOW IS THE ONLY THING ON THE PLANET WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO LIVE UNDERWATER. >> WOW. >> THERE’S ACTUALLY BEEN LESS AQUANAUTS-- PEOPLE THAT’VE SPENT MORE THAN 24 HOURS UNDERWATER-- THAN THERE HAVE BEEN ASTRONAUTS. >> OH! >> AND SO THAT’S A PRETTY INTERESTING FACT. >> YEAH. >> AND THE INTERESTING THING LIKE THAT IS, AGAIN LIKE THE CAVES, THERE IS AN APPARENT FEAR OF DEATH. I MEAN, YOU’VE GOT-- YOU’RE 40 FEET UNDERWATER, BUT ONCE YOU’RE SATURATED, THAT’S NOT SAFETY. SOMETHING GOES WRONG WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT, YOU CAN’T JUST DO AN EMERGENCY ASCENT. GOING TO THE SURFACE WILL KILL YOU. >> YEAH. >> YOU HAVE TO GET BACK INSIDE, AND WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, USE THE HABITAT AS A HYPERBARIC CHAMBER. >> WOW. >> AND SO YOU ARE-- YOU’VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT’S GOING ON. AND SO BUDDY CHECKS, CHECKING YOUR GEAR, JUST LIKE WE DO ON SPACEWALK, VERY IMPORTANT. KNOWING WHERE YOUR BUDDY IS AND WHAT HE’S DOING, IN CASE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM THAT YOU CAN GO OVER SOMEWHERE AND BUDDY BREATHE. THINGS LIKE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO BE IN YOUR MIND THE WHOLE TIME YOU’RE DOING A SIMULATED SPACEWALK UNDERGROUND. AND THEN BE ABLE TO LIVE UNDERWATER AND SEE THE CYCLES OF THE FISH, AND WHAT FISH WERE ACTIVE AT DAYLIGHT, WHAT FISH WERE ACTIVE AT NIGHTTIME, YOU KNOW. AND JUST SEEING THAT WHOLE THING UNFOLD AROUND YOU EVERY DAY JUST MADE IT A REALLY AMAZING EXPERIENCE. AND YOU’RE IN THIS HABITAT THAT’S THE SIZE OF LIKE A SCHOOL BUS-- THERE’S SIX OF YOU LIVING AND WORKING FOR A WEEK! AND YOU’VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OVER ANY INDIVIDUAL ISSUES YOU MIGHT HAVE, AND BE ABLE TO BE AN EFFECTIVE MEMBER OF THE TEAM. AND BETWEEN THOSE DIFFERENT EXTREME ENVIRONMENTS, THE HOPE IS THAT WHEN SOMEONE FINALLY GETS THE CHANCE TO GO TO SPACE, THAT IT’S JUST ONE OF MANY EXTREME ENVIRONMENT THINGS THAT THEY CAN ADD TO THEIR REPERTOIRE. IT’S NOT SUCH A HUGE, OVERALL ASSAULT ON THEIR SENSES AND THEIR PHYSICAL BEING BECAUSE THEY’VE BEEN IN EXTREME PLACES BEFORE. THIS IS JUST ONE MORE, RATHER THAN THE FIRST ONE THEY SEE. >> YEAH, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU’RE TAKING LITTLE THINGS FROM EACH EXPERIENCE. YOU KNOW, FROM THE CAVENAUT, YOU’RE TAKING ADJUSTING YOUR BIOLOGICAL CLOCK. FROM AQUANAUT, YOU’RE TAKING, YOU KNOW, THE COMRADERY AND BUDDY CHECKS, MAKING SURE EVERYONE’S OKAY. OBVIOUSLY THERE’S GOT TO BE MORE, BUT JUST THAT WHOLE ROUND EXPERIENCE MAKE YOU LIKE TRULY A NAUT. I DON’T KNOW, AN ALL-NAUT? I’M MAKING UP WORDS HERE. ANYWAY, WELL, KOMRADE, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW. I KNOW YOU’RE A VERY BUSY MAN. SO JUST BEST OF LUCK TO YOUR MISSION. MAYBE BY THE TIME THIS IS UP HERE YOU’LL ALREADY BE UP THERE, SO AGAIN, BEST OF LUCK TO YOU. FOR THE LISTENERS, IF YOU WANT TO STAY TUNED TILL AFTER THE LITTLE MUSIC HERE, WE’LL TELL YOU HOW YOU CAN FOLLOW KOMRADE ON HIS JOURNEY. HE’S ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND INSTAGRAM, IF I’M CORRECT, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >> ALL RIGHT, SO WE’LL TELL YOU ABOUT THAT AFTER THE SHOW. SO THANKS AGAIN, KOMRADE. >> MY PLEASURE, AND GOOD LUCK WITH THE PODCAST. >> THANKS. [ MUSIC ] [ INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER ] >> WELCOME TO SPACE. >> HEY, THANKS FOR STICKING AROUND. SO TODAY WE TALKED WITH ASTRONAUT RANDY “KOMRADE” BRESNIK. AND HE IS VERY ACTIVE ON SOCIAL MEDIA-- FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND INSTAGRAM. ON FACEBOOK, HE’S NASA ASTRONAUT RANDY “KOMRADE” BRESNIK. ON TWITTER, @ASTROKOMRADE AND ON INSTAGRAM, ALSO @ASTROKOMRADE. YOU CAN FOLLOW HIM ON ANY ONE OF THOSE ACCOUNTS. YOU CAN ACTUALLY JUST SEARCH AND FIND-- JUST SEARCH RANDY BRESNIK AND HE’LL PROBABLY POP UP. HE’S VERIFIED ON ALL THE OTHER ACCOUNTS. AND HE SHARES PICTURES OF HIS EXPERIENCE ONBOARD, AND SOME IMAGES OF THE EARTH, SO PLEASE FOLLOW ALONG. IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE WHOLE JOURNEY OF THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION-- THAT’S WHERE HE IS RIGHT NOW-- THAT’S ALSO ON ALL OF THOSE PLATFORMS-- FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND INSTAGRAM. ON FACEBOOK, IT’S THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION PAGE. ON TWITTER, @SPACE_STATION AND ON INSTAGRAM, IT’S @ISS. JUST USE THE HASHTAG #ASKNASA ON ANY ONE OF THOSE PLATFORMS AND YOU CAN SUBMIT AN IDEA TO THE PODCAST, OR MAYBE ASK A QUESTION, AND WE’LL MAKE SURE TO ADDRESS IT IN ONE OF THE LATER PODCASTS. THIS PODCAST WAS RECORDED ON MAY 4th, SO MAY THE 4th BE WITH YOU. IT’S PROBABLY WAY TOO LATE FOR THAT, BUT THAT’S OKAY. WE’RE RECORDING IT ON MAY 4th. I’M REALLY IN THE MOOD. THANKS TO JOHN STOLL, ALEX PERRYMAN, PAT RYAN, AND JOHN STREETER FOR HELPING OUT WITH THIS EPISODE, AND THANKS AGAIN TO MR. RANDY BRESNIK FOR COMING ON THE SHOW. WE’LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

hwhap_ Ep36 Teacher on Board

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-03-16

Dan Huot (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center. This is Episode 36: Teacher on Board. I'm Dan Huot, and I will be your host today. If you're new to the show, we bring in NASA experts, the scientists, the engineers, and astronauts all to tell you everything NASA. So today we're talking with Ricky Arnold. He's a US astronaut, and he's about to launch to the International Space Station in March for his second space flight and first his ride up in a Russian Soyuz. We talked about his education, how he started out as an accountant and then went to marine sciences, went on to a teacher, and eventually became an astronaut. He flew on the Shuttle, and now he's about to fly on the International Space Station. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Ricky Arnold. Enjoy. [ Music ] Host: So Ricky Arnold, teacher, astronaut, world traveler, and now most importantly, Houston, We Have a Podcast guest. Ricky, thanks so much for joining me this morning. How are you doing? How's training going? You getting ready to go to space? Ricky Arnold: Oh, yeah. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. I'm getting close. I only -- this is my -- I'm finishing up my US training this week. I've got a couple of weeks off to kind of take care of things here, around the office, and at home. I head over to Russia in early February. And we do all of our final training for the Soyuz, for our launch vehicle to get us to the Space Station and back, take our final exams, and then head off to Baikonur and launch in March. Host: Big test day coming up. Ricky Arnold: We have our finals coming up. So -- you're never through with final exams. Host: Yeah. No matter what you think, kids, the test will always come back around. So I notice you're already doing stuff for science right now. They already have you giving sample and all kinds of things. Ricky Arnold: Oh, yeah. Host: This isn't just a six-month stint you guys sign up for, is it? Ricky Arnold: No, no. In addition to the training, you are a test subject. So one of the big things we're trying to learn on the International Space Station is how does a human body change in outer space? And if those changes are for the worse, what are some countermeasures we can use to help protect astronauts? So when we go off into deep space for really long stays, how can we protect people who are going to go execute those missions? So I've started as a test subject last year. And I've been providing stuff to our doctors in the clinic and will continue to do that on the International Space Station, send it home. And then when I land, the journey continues in terms of being a test subject. I was telling you, I can come back to NASA for the rest of my life once a year for a physical just so the doctors can keep tabs on what has happened after spending time in outer space. Host: That's a long project. Ricky Arnold: It's a long project. Host: That's a long project. All right. Well, I want to kind of dive into how Ricky Arnold became an astronaut. Because you have a pretty unique journey for somebody in the astronaut corps. And there's one thing I wanted to jump on right off the because -- Ricky Arnold: It is atypical. Host: I was a business major in school. And I see you had a bachelor's degree in accounting. Ricky Arnold: That is true. Host: How did that come to pass and how the heck did they let a business major into the astronaut corps? Ricky Arnold: I went to off to college when I was 17 years old. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was out of town. The week you went up and got all the freshman counseling and orientation. So I literally arrived on campus with classes starting in three days and signed up for no classes. I found out where I was living, and I met with a counselor. And he said, "Well, what are you good at?" And meanwhile he's looking at the roster of classes to see what's even available. Because most of the stuff's already been filled up. And then he said, "Are you good at numbers?" I'm good at numbers. Okay, good, Accounting 101's opened up. Oh, okay. So I ended up taking an accounting class. And I've always been okay with numbers. And still wasn't really sure exactly what I wanted to do, so I took Accounting II. Ended up my sophomore year taking the hardest part of accounting, which is the intermediate accounting, which is kind of where people decide to drop out of accounting because it's very, very complicated classes. And I got through that. And at that point, I had signed up and taken a geology class as an elective. And it was a geology class and really enjoyed it. And I had an interest in science from when I was much younger. And so then I took Biology 101. And these were just as my electives while I was still getting my accounting degree. And I took biology -- the second, Biology II. I ended up with a biology minor to go along with my bachelor's degree in accounting. Host: I bet you were a rare breed. Ricky Arnold: I was. People, on the roster, when I would show up for these advanced-level biology classes, the teachers, they always had the majors listed there. They said, "Hey, Arnold, are you in the right class?" Said, "Yeah, yeah, I'm just taking this for fun. I'm taking this morphology of the halophytes just for fun." Host: Oh, that sounds like a blast. Ricky Arnold: And much like many students who went off to school, you know, I didn't have unlimited resources for college. So I needed to graduate with a degree. But by the end of my sophomore year, beginning of my junior I already knew I really wasn't going to make it as an accountant. I had other things I wanted to do. But I went ahead and got my degree and then continued taking electives in community college while working to get into graduate school at the University of Maryland in marine sciences. Host: And so you graduated with the BS in accounting, and then you just pivoted -- because it sounds like you found something -- Ricky Arnold: I did. Host: -- that you were interested in. Ricky Arnold: Right. But I just couldn't stay at college forever. So I went to work, I went to community colleges, took chemistry, physics, calculus, all the things I needed to do to get into graduate school to pursue an advanced degree in the sciences. Host: And so where did you go to grad school? What was that degree? Ricky Arnold: Went to University of Maryland. And they have a marine and estuarine environmental science program. Because we are right -- you know, I grew up right by the Chesapeake Bay. Host: I grew up in Delaware. Ricky Arnold: Oh, so you know exactly. So you can't limit yourself to oceanography in Maryland because there's too many different types of bodies of water. So they cover all their bases -- marine and estuarine. And it was a research-based program. I worked over at the Horn Point Environmental Lab on my project and actually did some -- I ended up doing some sediment geochemistry of the Severn River right near Annapolis. So we're a subtributary of the Severn River. So yeah, it wasn't a typical journey. Host: Well, so you got the biology. Ricky Arnold: And then how did you end up teaching? Host: Well, yeah. And so did you -- was teaching ever kind of in your mind at that point when you were going through school? Because, again, we're hopping around. [ Multiple Speakers ] Ricky Arnold: It's not like a lot of people I work with who knew they wanted to fly airplanes and go to space when they were three years old -- that just wasn't me. When I got out of school, I had a temporary job down in DC. And this was a time where Christa McAuliffe was, you know, announced as being one of the members of the Challenger mission. And I remember thinking distinctly like, "Wow, that's pretty impressive that NASA recognizes the kind of people we have working in our nation's public schools." Host: Oh, yeah. Ricky Arnold: And but it really wasn't -- that certainly probably played a role in formulating an opinion of being an educator. But one of the jobs I was working while I was taking classes at community college, I got a job at the United States Naval Academy working in the oceanography department. And I was just taking care of their scientific equipment. I was doing the maintenance for their equipment. I was going out on the yard patrol vessels where you're doing projects and I was deploying the equipment for professors and students. And I also got to work with some of the midshipmen there. And that's really what set the bit. Okay, you know what? I think this is something I really want to do. So my plan at that point -- finally a light bulb went off a couple years after getting out of college. Host: I'll be a teacher. Ricky Arnold: I'm going to be a teacher. And I have all my prerequisites to get into graduate school. So I'm going to go get my teaching certificate, do my student teaching. And then almost as soon as I started teaching, I took job in Charles County, Maryland. And my second semester teaching there, the second half of the year, I started taking classes at the University of Maryland in their graduate program and then enrolled the following fall. So it was busy. I was a first-year teacher starting my second year of teaching, going to graduate school at night in the sciences. And it was pretty busy. But I knew what I wanted to do at that point. So I was doing a job I loved. And my evenings were spent in science and my weekends. So it was all good. Host: What did you start off teaching? Ricky Arnold: I started off teaching middle school science. Host: Okay. Ricky Arnold: Yeah. Host: And so what grades -- because -- Ricky Arnold: Seventh grade to start off with. And I think I had two eighth grade classes as well. Host: But you went on to teach high school, right? Ricky Arnold: I did. Host: Did you have a favorite grade to teach? Ricky Arnold: Well, I -- yes, I liked teaching high school, some of the advance college preparatory classes just for the material and the learning. But my favorite class to teach -- which is my background's really in biology. Host: Yeah. Ricky Arnold: I taught an eighth grade physical science class, which was a combination of introductory physics and chemistry. And I just really enjoyed that a lot because there's so many foundational principles there. If you can teach a kid to read a periodic table -- not memorize it, which is what I was taught to do -- but to actually read it and -- [ Multiple Speakers ] Yeah, the material. All you need to know about chemistry's right here and how atoms work together. So I just found it was just the right amount of material to kind of spark a kid's interest in that field and set them on a trajectory where if they showed up in a chemistry class in high school or in college that they would have the tools to be successful. Host: So I mean, I could trace back to a teacher very vividly who kind of set me on my on path. Do you kind of wonder if you were able to? Because, I mean, now you're an astronaut and it's a very visible job. But like you said, it was pretty incredible for NASA to recognize the people who are doing this stuff in public school. Ricky Arnold: Right. Host: Did you ever think about that, you know, you're setting these kids hopefully up for a life in the sciences or math or anything like that? Ricky Arnold: I hope so. I mean, you know, there are kids when they walk into your classroom, you know they're going to be remarkable things. And if I played -- you know, it's possible I played a small part in it. But it's unlikely. There are kids who come who just -- you know they're going to go off and do amazing things. But that's only a handful, right? Everyone else, I think, is more like I was. And I wasn't really all that certain. So. Host: Just trying to find your way still? Ricky Arnold: Yeah, yeah. So just to present options and let them know there are exciting career choices out there. I still keep in touch with a few former students. And like I said, some have gone on to do amazing things. And but, you know, I don't know that -- maybe I played a small part. But, you know, there's a reason you go to school for 12 years before going to college. It's you get different teachers, different experiences, different backgrounds. And I think that all shapes the whole. Host: All right. So you're busting in Maryland, you're going to school, you're teaching; how the heck did you end up in Morocco? How did that happen? Ricky Arnold: Yeah, I love to read when I was a -- I still love to read. And I'm kind of a victim of my love of reading. Because I like reading about different places, and different cultures, different things, different ideas. And I had been teaching for four years in Maryland. I had just finished graduate school and graduated. And I picked up a Washington Post on a Sunday morning and there was an advertisement in the classified section, which I hardly ever looked at but this Sunday I happened to. And it said -- the headline was "Are you interested in teaching overseas?" I was like, "I'm interested in going overseas. I hadn't really considered teaching there as a means to get there." So I called the number and went to this presentation. It so happens the gentleman who was putting this thing on had been a headmaster at a school in Tangier, Morocco. So he started off telling the story about, you know, living in exotic Morocco, his experience. And I was like, "Oh, wow. This is something that" -- Host: Sign me up. Ricky Arnold: Really, sign me. How do I do that? Well, it doesn't quite unfold like that. You go to these interview fairs. We actually went into a big room and they had the jobs posted on the walls from different locations all around the world. So you could be going to -- there's the international school of Tanzania. We have these openings. There's the international school of you name it. And I ended up getting hired as a biology -- high school biology and middle school teacher and science teacher in Casablanca, Morocco. Host: Wow. Ricky Arnold: And so [Laughs] a year later after going to that thing, I was stepping off a plane in Casablanca and making my way to my new apartment in North Africa. Host: I mean, that had to be -- had you ever traveled outside the country before that? Ricky Arnold: You know, my wife and I were both teachers. And we were newly married, too, when we moved there. No, I'd been to -- Host: Did you at least leave Maryland? Ricky Arnold: I'd left Maryland. I'd been to Ecuador because a gentleman who worked in Charles County would put together these trips in the summer, like, professional development programs. And one of them was down to the Galapagos. So I'd been down there. I'd been probably to Canada and maybe to Mexico but not really. Host: Not something just totally outside your element? Ricky Arnold: Not -- not -- yeah. Host: I mean, what was it like to make that move? Ricky Arnold: I don't know, I just enjoyed the community that we got to know. I enjoyed the diversity of ideas with the students that you taught. We had kids from all over the world, the different languages and the opportunity to try to learn some languages. It was challenging, but I think it was a very, very rewarding part of my life. Host: But that was just stop number one. Ricky Arnold: Yeah. Host: Where else did you teach? Ricky Arnold: Yeah, we lived in Casablanca for three years. And my daughter was born when we were living there. My oldest daughter. We then moved to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and my youngest daughter was born there. And we lived there for five years. And then I think we had enough -- we had the Mediterranean climate, we had the desert -- and we ended up going to the jungles of Indonesia, teaching at a small school in [inaudible] or West Papua, Indonesia. So on the island of New Guinea. And then two years there. And then finally a year in Bucharest, Romania. And from there I was hired to come to NASA. Host: And so everything we do now with the Space Station is international -- it's right there in the name. Did your experience, you know, kind of being a little bit of a globetrotter there for a little while, did that play into your role as an astronaut now? Do you look back and say, "I'm really glad I did that because none of this seems so daunting"? Ricky Arnold: I'm glad I did it for myself just because of the opportunity for learning. But I naively -- when I came here for my interview, I really had no false expectations about getting a job as an astronaut. I mean, when I applied, I thought, "Hey, this is going to be a really, really awesome rejection letter to hang in my office." Host: This will be a good story [Laughs]. Ricky Arnold: Yeah, this will be a good story. And then when I got the interview and I came in here, I was like, well -- I mean, I really had no expectations. But then I thought -- we have this one-hour -- the interview process itself is a week. Most of it is medical. There's all kind of aptitude tests and those kind of things, along with some tours. But you have a one-hour interview with a fair number of highly-experienced astronauts and some other folks with the agency. And it's like, "Well, when I get to that interview, surely they're going to ask me about my international experience." And so I thought that might be kind of a good thing to be able to talk about. Host: Yeah. Ricky Arnold: And it turns out in between when I got out of school and was working those jobs to get into graduate school, I had worked on a sail training vessel for not quite a half-year. We sailed all over the Atlantic. And I was an assistant science on board this vessel. It was like, you know, four months, five months. I figured that's hardly even worth mentioning on a resume. That was the only thing the interview committee asked me about. And now it makes sense. I was deploying scientific equipment in an extreme environment, you know, late at night, you know, early in the morning. There was always an element of risk involved with the job. You were living on a small ship with 30-some other people and you were part of the crew. So -- but I do think -- getting back to your question, I mean, at least having some experience overseas kind of prepared me for the travel back and forth to Russia and the amount of time we spent there and in Germany and in Japan as well. Host: Wow. Well, so now you're getting ready to fly. This will be your second time. Ricky Arnold: Right. Host: You've been to the Space Station once? Ricky Arnold: Right. Host: But that was short. Ricky Arnold: It was. Host: It's going to be a whole new ballgame. Ricky Arnold: Sure is. Host: Are you really excited about this? Are you excited? Because we always hear from astronauts when they did the short Shuttle missions, it was like you're just getting a little taste of it and you never really feel like you're there. You can't soak it in. Are you really look forward to kind of stretching your legs and hanging out in microgravity for six months? Ricky Arnold: Well, I am. I mean, six months is a long time. And so that's going to be a completely different mind shift from a very short duration mission where you just got to go, go, go, go, go, go, and then sleep when you get home. You just can't do that for six months. Host: No. Ricky Arnold: However, you know, it was really exciting part of my career to be able to go help finish the construction of the International Space Station. After we left, we were able to go from three to six crew, start doing a lot more of the science. And, of course, we're just a small part in the chain. But we provided the power to make all that happen. And that was really exciting. But now I get to go kind of live and work there. You know, the assembly's pretty much done. We're just going to go up and take advantage of everyone else's hard work and then try to do a good job, you know, doing what the Space Station was intended -- why it was built. Host: Well, I mean, last time, so you were building it. This time you're going to be one of those scientists. Does that almost have you more excited because of your background of always being interested in that kind of stuff? Ricky Arnold: It does. It's a bit intimidating, too. When you go to the Space Station, your building part of it. We knew after one EVA that our mission was more or less a success. Right? We were up there on the fifth day in space, we got the S6 truss installed. The next day we deployed the solar arrays. Another book checked. And then anything after that was kind of gravy, right? It worked, it was all good. Here your responsibility, you know, there's a lot of people around the world who have spent their entire career trying to get a payload into space or an experiment in space and you don't want to be the link that makes -- that kind of crushes their dreams, you know? Because you made a mistake. And it's going to happen, right? But you got to minimize it and, you know, just go up and do the best job you can. Host: And as a former teacher, can I call you a former teacher? Ricky Arnold: Sure. Host: Or do you still consider yourself a teacher? Ricky Arnold: Kind of still. Host: Are you going to go back to teaching? Ricky Arnold: Maybe. Maybe. I've thought about it. I'm right now at the halfway point. I've been an astronaut as long as I've been a teacher. But I still kind of call myself a teacher. Host: Well, astroteacher Arnold. Ricky Arnold: Yeah [Laughs]. Host: So you're not going to just be doing the science, you're going to be bringing the Station into classrooms down here on earth as part of the Year of Education on Station. Ricky Arnold: Right. Host: I mean, talk a little bit about what your role is going to be. You're not the only one doing that? Ricky Arnold: No, no. And, you know, we've used the ISS as an education platform in the past, certainly. But by sheer coincidence, we ended up with two additional slots on the International Space Station, which means there will be one more American there for an entire year. And those two Americans both happen to be classroom teachers -- Joe Acaba, who's up there now, and me, who will launch in March. So we have people who have that background for a continuous year. And we have more crew time available to pursue education pursuits. So we won't be the only ones doing the -- providing the educational outreach. Certainly our crew mates will be part of it. But it's because we're there. It's a nice story of, "Hey, we've got teachers in space for a year." And we're certainly going to be highly involved in what's going on. But our crew mates -- it's going to be a shared effort. And I'm really excited about continuing to highlight the International Space Station as a platform for education. Host: Is there any project in particular you're excited about that you guys are going to be doing, you know, either really soon or down the road while you're up there? Ricky Arnold: Well, absolutely. The thing that I'm most excited about is I think I mentioned earlier about the Challenger mission? Host: Mm-hmm. Ricky Arnold: Did I mention that earlier? Host: Yeah, you did. Ricky Arnold: I thought so. Host: You said you were watching it on TV. Ricky Arnold: I was watching it, exactly, exactly. Host: That kind of planted a little seed. Ricky Arnold: Planted a seed, thank you. And, you know, I've kind of always wondered -- it was just such an amazing thing that NASA was trying to offer to the education community. And I kind of always wonder what became of that? What became of those lessons after that sacrifice? And there's been amazing things done. There's the Challenger Center have started up in carrying that mission forward. The Onizuka Foundation. I'm going to leave people out, but there's been families and concerned people who surrounded that mission who went on and did some really good things in education. But I always kind of wondered what happened to the things Christa was going to do on orbit? And so Joe and I are -- and we're going to announce it here shortly -- but Joe and I are going to have the opportunity to conduct some of the lesson plans that Christa McAuliffe was going to do while she was on Challenger back in 1986. Host: All right. And so -- Ricky Arnold: Which I think is really cool. Host: No, I mean, that's -- that's incredible. And it does kind of bring it full circle as NASA -- we started the educator focus back then, we're doing it now. So I mean, you got to just be excited to get up there. Ricky Arnold: Yeah. And hopefully inspire other teachers out there to pursue degrees in -- you know, advanced degrees in science -- you know, direct in science. Not science education. But as a scientist and consider, you know, maybe coming to NASA at some point and continue the mission. Joe and I are the only two left. Barb Morgan left a few years ago. Dotty Metcalf-Lindenburger left shortly after Barb. And then it's just Joe and I are the only two left. So we got to hand off the baton to someone. Host: No pressure. Ricky Arnold: No, no pressure at all. Host: So aside from all that, anything you're just really excited about getting up there to do? Any science you've seen going on recently; you really want to do some space walks; anything that's -- Ricky Arnold: Oh, well, you know -- Host: -- on the Ricky Arnold bucket list for Space Station? Ricky Arnold: Doing another spacewalk would be -- would be awesome. The science we're doing up there, I -- really excited to be a part that. Just because we're really working hard to improve life here on earth. But from a purely selfish standpoint, I'm just look forward to having some time to look out the window. The look -- I'll never forget my first look at earth from space. And that image is kind of embedded in my mind and I think always will be. But on the Shuttle we just didn't have a lot of time for just looking out the window and admiring Earth. You get a real sense for this is all we got right now. The planet's beautiful, we're all in it together, and there's a lot of nothing that surrounds us. And so just appreciate the earth from low-earth orbit and maybe encourage people to take better care of it. It's the only thing we got right now. Host: All right. Well, I know I got to let you go back and do astronaut stuff. Ricky Arnold: Yeah, I know. Host: One final question. Ricky Arnold: Sure. Host: You've been an astronaut now as long as you've been a teacher, and you said, you know, maybe you'll go back and teach. What would you go teach? Would you go back and do eighth grade science? What would you go do, you think? Ricky Arnold: That's a good question. I think I would probably go back to middle school, seventh or eighth grade. I just enjoy work working that age group. You know, they're still figuring things out, they're still open to ideas. They're still by and large enthusiastic about learning. I just -- there's something to me that -- I didn't intentionally become a middle school teacher, but it was something that I really, really enjoyed. And I just found it a very rewarding job. And so will I consider it? I still got a little bit more time here at NASA and some more things I want to accomplish here. But, you know, who knows? Host: Yeah. Well, I mean, being a teacher from space has got to look good on the resume. You'll be competitive. You'll be competitive for the job. Ricky Arnold: If I can get a job, yeah, exactly. Host: All right. Well, again, Ricky Arnold, soon to be International Space Station resident on board coming up in March. Thanks for joining me today, man. Ricky Arnold: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. [ Music ] Houston, go ahead. [Inaudible] Space Shuttle. Roger, zero G and I feel fine. Shuttle has cleared the [inaudible] We came in peace for all mankind. It's actually a huge honor to break a record like this. Not because they are easy but because they are hard. [Inaudible] Houston, welcome to space. [ Music ] Host: Hey, everyone, thanks again for listening. If you want to follow Ricky while he's onboard the International Space Station, head over to Twitter and you can follow him @Astro_Ricky. And as always, you can follow us online at NASA.gov/ISS for all the latest on the International Space Station and on our various social media accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And as always, you can use #AskNASA on your favorite platform to submit any ideas for a podcast. Just make sure to mention it's for Houston, We Have a Podcast. This podcast was recorded on January 18th. Thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stoll, Pat Ryan, John Streeter, Greg Wiseman, and Ryon Stewart. And, of course, thanks again to Mr. Ricky Arnold for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

hwhap_Ep14_ Robotic Arms In Space

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-10-13

>> HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST. WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL PODCAST OF THE NASA JOHNSON SPACE CENTER EPISODE 14: ROBOTIC ARMS IN SPACE. I’M GARY JORDAN AND I’LL BE YOUR HOST TODAY. SO IF YOU’RE NEW TO THE SHOW, THIS IS WHERE WE BRING IN NASA EXPERTS-- SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS, ASTRONAUTS-- ALL TO TELL YOU THE COOLEST STUFF ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON HERE AT NASA. SO TODAY WE’RE TALKING WITH TIM BRAITHWAITE. HE’S THE CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY’S LIAISON MANAGER HERE AT THE NASA JOHNSON SPACE CENTER IN HOUSTON, TEXAS. AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE ROBOTIC ARMS IN SPACE, WHICH IS PERFECT BECAUSE ASTRONAUTS ABOARD THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION ARE GOING TO PERFORM THREE SPACEWALKS IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER. AND IN ALL THREE THE ASTRONAUTS ARE WORKING ON THE CANADARM2, WHICH WE’LL BE TALKING ABOUT IN THIS EPISODE, ALONG WITH HOW IT WAS DEVELOPED AND HOW IT WORKS TODAY, HOW THE TECHNOLOGY HELPS PEOPLE HERE ON EARTH, AND WHAT’S COMING UP IN THE FUTURE. BUT FOR A LOT OF EPISODES, WE TIE TOPICS TO WHAT’S GOING ON TODAY HERE IN SPACE, AND TRY TO EXPLAIN IT AT A HIGH LEVEL. WE’RE ALWAYS LISTENING TO WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT, AND WE’RE LOOKING ON SOCIAL MEDIA ESPECIALLY. SO IF YOU’VE LISTENED TO PREVIOUS EPISODES, WE TELL YOU WHERE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS SO WE CAN PUT IT IN THE PODCAST AT THE END OF EVERY EPISODE. SO I WANTED TO ANSWER THIS TWITTER QUESTION FROM JENNIFER, WHO ASKED AFTER THE MISSION CONTROL EPISODE, “WHEN YOU RUN AN EXPERIMENT, ARE SCIENTISTS INVITED TO THE MISSION CONTROL CENTER?” SO I WENT AND DID SOME DIGGING AND FOUND OUT THAT SOMETIMES THEY COME TO MISSION CONTROL HOUSTON, BUT A LOT OF THE TIMES THEY’RE PATCHED THROUGH FROM THE PAYLOAD OPERATIONS INTEGRATION CENTER AT MARSHALL SPACE FLIGHT CENTER IN HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA. THEY’RE PATCHED ALL THE WAY UP TO THE ASTRONAUTS ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION. OTHERWISE THEY CAN BE PATCHED THROUGH FROM A REMOTE LOCATION, AND THEY SORT OF HELP WALK THE ASTRONAUTS THROUGH SOME OF THEIR TASKS, AND SOMETIMES THEY CAN JUST KIND OF WATCH AND MONITOR AS THEY’RE DOING IT. SO ANYWAY, TODAY WE’RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT ROBOTIC ARMS IN SPACE WITH MR. TIM BRAITHWAITE. SO WITH NO FURTHER DELAY, LET’S GO LIGHT SPEED AND JUMP RIGHT AHEAD TO THAT TALK. ENJOY. [ MUSIC ] >> T MINUS FIVE SECONDS AND COUNTING-- MARK. [ INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER ] >> HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST. [ MUSIC ] >> SO THANKS FOR COMING ON, AND I KNOW IT’S BEEN PARTICULARLY BUSY RECENTLY, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER WE HAVE A FEW SPACEWALKS GOING OUT THAT ARE PARTICULARLY FOCUSING ON ROBOTIC ARMS, RIGHT, SPECIFICALLY THE CANADARM2? >> EXACTLY. THIS FIRST SPACEWALK ESPECIALLY, ON THURSDAY THE 5th IS PRETTY MUCH ENTIRELY DEDICATED TO REPLACING ONE OF OUR TWO LATCHING END EFFECTORS ON CANADARM2. >> OKAY, AND WHAT’S A LATCHING END EFFECTOR? >> THE ARM IS MORE OR LESS SYMMETRICAL, AND AT EACH END YOU KIND OF CALL IT THE WORKING HAND OF THE ARM. >> OH, OKAY. >> --IS WHAT YOU CALL THE LATCHING END EFFECTOR. WE USUALLY CALL IT A LEE-- L-E-E. >> OKAY, LOTS OF ACRONYMS HERE. >> IT’S NOT A HAND IN THE SENSE THAT IT HAS FINGERS, BUT THERE ARE GRASPING, GRAPPLING AND LATCHING MECHANISMS THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO CAPTURE A FREEFLYING CARGO VEHICLE IN SPACE, OR STEP ONTO ANOTHER MODULE ON THE SPACE STATION AND MAKE THAT THE NEW OPERATING BASE, THEN RELEASE THE OTHER END AND THE ARM CAN WALK END OVER END. >> OH. >> BUT THE LATCHING END EFFECTOR PACKAGE IS A BIG THING-- IT’S A SORT OF CYLINDER A LITTLE OVER A METER LONG, WEIGHS OVER 200 KILOGRAMS. >> WOW. >> SO IT’S A BIG PACKAGE. THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT MECHANISMS WITH GEAR TRAINS OF THEIR OWN, LOTS OF ONBOARD ELECTRONICS, WHAT WE CALL A FORCE END MOMENT SENSOR. SO WHEN THAT LEE IS THE TIP OF THE ARM, IT CAN ACTUALLY SENSE HOW HARD IT’S PUSHING AGAINST SOMETHING OR HOW HARD SOMETHING IS PUSHING BACK. AND THAT’S VERY USEFUL IF WE ARE INSERTING A BIG ITEM, LIKE THE JAPANESE CARGO VEHICLE HAS AN EXTERNAL PALLET THAT WE EXTRACT AND THEN REINSERT LIKE A DRAWER INTO A CHEST OF DRAWERS. AND IMAGINE IF YOU’RE DOING THAT AT HOME, BEING ABLE TO FEEL HOW YOU’RE LINED UP AND FEEL THE FORCES ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. THAT’S A VERY USEFUL THING TO GETTING THE DRAWER ALL THE WAY IN SUCCESSFULLY. >> RIGHT. >> AND THE SAME SORT OF PRINCIPLES APPLY WITH CANADARM2-- THAT FORCE END MOMENT SENSOR CAPABILITY IS VERY USEFUL. BUT THAT’S ALL PART OF THAT BIG, PRETTY COMPLEX PACKAGE IN THE CANADARM2 LEEs. >> OKAY, SO LATCHING END EFFECTOR. AND WE CAN GET INTO SOME OF THE MORE SPECIFIC THINGS LATER HERE, AND JUST FOCUSING ON HOW THAT WORKS AND WHAT IT CAN GRAB. BUT I REALLY WANTED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION TODAY BECAUSE OF THIS, RIGHT-- YOU KNOW, WE’RE REPLACING A LATCHING END EFFECTOR, AND WE HAVE SOME REGULAR MAINTENANCE, TOO, COMING UP WITH SOME OF THE OTHER SPACEWALKS. BUT REALLY, THIS KIND OF BEGS THE QUESTION FOR JUST A ROBOTIC ARM, THE IDEA OF A ROBOTIC ARM IN SPACE. SO IF YOU COULD KIND OF GIVE LIKE A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF WHAT A ROBOTIC ARM IN SPACE DOES-- BECAUSE IT IS SIGNIFICANT. >> THE ROBOTIC ARMS DO A LOT OF THINGS. AND OFTEN, THINGS-- HONESTLY-- THAT YOU DIDN’T NECESSARILY ANTICIPATE. SO GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE SPACE SHUTTLE PROGRAM, WHEN NASA WAS PLANNING OUT ITS SPACE SHUTTLE BACK IN THE ‘70s. >> YEAH. >> THEY STARTED A DIALOGUE WITH THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT. THIS WAS ACTUALLY BEFORE THE CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY EXISTED. BACK THEN IT WAS THE NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL OF CANADA. >> OH. >> AND THEY STARTED A DIALOGUE, AND BY SORT OF THE MID 1970s HAD AN AGREEMENT GOING FORWARD THAT CANADA WOULD PROVIDE WHAT WE CALLED A REMOTE MANIPULATOR SYSTEM. AND THAT’S THE ROBOTIC ARM, THAT FAMILIAR ARM THAT YOU SEE IN ALL THOSE PICTURES OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE. >> YEAH. >> AND THE FIRST CANADARM, AS WE CALLED IT IN CANADA, FLEW ON STS-2. >> ON THE SPACE SHUTTLE? >> ON THE VERY SECOND FLIGHT THAT THEY FLEW AN ARM ON THAT-- THERE WASN’T AN ARM ON EVERY SINGLE SPACE SHUTTLE FLIGHT. THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE THERE WAS, AND THEY DEPLOYED IT AND SHIPPED IT OUT AND STARTED LEARNING WHAT AN ARM COULD DO FOR YOU. THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT WAS THAT THEY MIGHT DEPLOY SATELLITES OUT OF THE PAYLOAD BAY, CATCH SATELLITES AND SERVICE THEM OR BRING THEM BACK TO EARTH. BUT WHAT WE SAY OVER THOSE FIRST YEARS OF OPERATION WITH THE SPACE SHUTTLE WAS THAT THEY WERE THINKING OF THINGS THAT THEY HADN’T ANTICIPATED. I REMEMBER ONE CASE IN PARTICULAR-- THE SPACE SHUTTLE SOMETIMES VENTED FLUIDS OUT THE SIDES-- THEY JUST VENTED STUFF OVERBOARD. AND ONE TIME, THE VENT WASN’T WORKING QUITE RIGHT AND AN ICICLE GREW OUT OF THE SIDE OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE. >> OOH. >> AND THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT-- IT MIGHT BREAK OFF DURING REENTRY, MIGHT BE A PROBLEM. >> YEAH. >> SO THEY PLANNED THIS OPERATION NO ONE EVER IMAGINED THAT THEY WOULD KNOCK THE ICICLE OFF WITH THE ROBOTIC ARM. >> NO WAY! >> AND THAT WAS ONE OF MANY-- AND THERE WERE OTHER THINGS, TOO-- TRYING TO THROW A SWITCH ON THE OUTSIDE OF A ROTATING SATELLITE USING THE ARM. JUST THINGS YOU HADN’T THOUGHT OF, AND THAT’S THE GREAT POTENTIAL FOR FLEXIBILITY THAT THIS SORT OF ROBOTIC ARM CAN GIVE YOU. YOU HAVE A CAPABILITY TO GO LOOK AT THINGS UP CLOSE BECAUSE THERE’S A CAMERA ON THE END. >> OH, OKAY. >> YOU-- I MEAN, DURING THE COURSE OF THE SPACE STATION PROGRAM, YEARS LATER, WE STARTED CAPTURING FREEFLYING CARGO VEHICLES. THE VERY FIRST ONE WAS THE JAPANESE CARGO VEHICLE, HTV-1. I THINK THAT WAS IN 2009. >> OKAY. >> AND THAT WAS YEARS AFTER THE ARM ARRIVED ON SPACE STATION BACK IN 2001. AND ALL THIS WORK-- AND ACTUALLY, SOME EXPANSION CAPABILITY OF THE ARM TO SATISFY ALL THE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS SO WE COULD DO THAT-- YOU HAVE THIS BIG SPACECRAFT GENTLY FLY UP UNDER THE SPACE STATION AND SIT THERE, AND THE ARM WOULD REACH OUT AND SECURELY GRASP IT AND THEN ATTACH IT TO THE SPACE STATION. I MEAN, THAT’S-- AGAIN, PART OF THAT EXPANDING CAPABILITY THAT’S BEEN SO NEAT. >> YEAH. I MEAN, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE HUMAN ARM, RIGHT, YOU THINK ABOUT JUST THE FACT THAT IT’S GOT THAT JOINT-- AND THEN AT THE TIP OF IT IS THE HAND. AND THE HAND IS NOT MEANT FOR JUST ONE TASK, RIGHT, THE HAND IS MEANT TO DO A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND KIND OF MANIPULATE. WAS THERE SOME SORT OF ENGINEERING THAT WENT INTO THE HAND OR THE ROBOTIC ARM THAT SORT OF EMULATES THAT OF A HAND TO BE AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE WITH ALL THESE TASKS HERE THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT? >> WELL, JUST AS WITH A HUMAN ARM, WE CAN MAKE OURSELVES TOOLS THAT WE WOULD GO USE. >> YEAH. >> WE HAVE THE SAME CAPABILITY TO GO DO THAT WITH ROBOTICS. FOR THE CANADARM2 END EFFECTOR, WHICH IS QUITE SIMILAR TO IT-- IT’S EVOLVED FROM THAT ORIGINAL SHUTTLE ARM END EFFECTOR-- IT WAS DESIGNED IN PARTICULAR TO BE ABLE TO RELEASE A SATELLITE, TO DEPLOY IT IN SPACE, AND NOT LEAVE ANY RESIDUAL RATES ON IT. IT HAD TO BE ABLE TO LET IT GO AND NOT HAVE IT BE MOVING OR TUMBLING OR ANYTHING. IT HAD TO LET IT GO AND IT WOULD BE PERFECTLY STILL, AND THEY COULD BACK AWAY WITHOUT ANY RATES ON IT SO THAT THE MECHANISMS THAT WE HAVE WITH THE-- WE HAVE THESE STEEL CABLES WHICH WE CALL SNARE CABLES. >> YEAH. >> AND THAT WHOLE ASSEMBLY IS DESIGNED TO BE ABLE TO LET IT GO AND HAVE IT BE PERFECTLY STILL. SO THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THAT. >> OKAY. >> BUT FOR SPACE STATION, THE PROPER NAME OF OUR WHOLE SYSTEM, THE WHOLE SUITE OF ROBOTICS, IS ACTUALLY THE MOBILE SERVICING SYSTEM. WE ARE THERE-- THESE CANADIAN ROBOTS ARE HERE TO SERVICE THE SPACE STATION. WE’RE HERE TO DO MAINTENANCE. >> OH! >> SO BEYOND JUST THE CANADARM2-- WHICH IS A BIG ARM, DOES A LOT OF HEAVY LIFTING-- IT CAN MOVE REMARKABLY LARGE, MASSIVE OBJECTS-- WE ALSO BUILT A TWO-ARMED MAINTENANCE ROBOT WHICH WE CALL DEXTRE. IT’S THE SPECIAL PURPOSE DEXTROUS MANIPULATOR, BUT WE CALL IT DEXTRE. >> SURE. >> IT LOOKS-- IT’S GOT TWO ARMS. IT LOOKS A LITTLE BIT LIKE A GUY, BUT IT’S ACTUALLY REALLY BIG. BUT THESE DEXTROUS ARMS, WHICH HAVE A SMALLER AND DIFFERENT KIND OF END EFFECTOR ON THOSE SMALLER ARMS, THEY’RE ABLE TO DO MORE DEXTROUS TASKS, MORE REFINED-- WE CAN REPLACE SMALL ELECTRONIC BOXES ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE SPACE STATION. WE’VE DONE THAT A FEW TIMES NOW WITH POWER CONTROLLER MODULES THAT NEED TO BE REPLACED. >> MM-HMM. >> OTHER BOXES WHICH WERE DESIGNED FOR ROBOTIC MAINTENANCE. THE INTERFACES ON THESE BOXES MUST MATCH THE DESIGN OF THE HAND THAT THESE END EFFECTORS, WHETHER ON DEXTRE OR ON CANADARM2. BUT IF IT’S DESIGNED FOR THAT-- AND WE’VE DEMONSTRATED WE CAN DO A LOT OF REALLY COOL MAINTENANCE THAT RELIEVES THE SPACE STATION CREW FROM HAVING TO GO OUTSIDE AND DO SPACEWALKS, WHICH ARE VERY COOL, BUT THEY TAKE A LOT OF TIME. >> RIGHT. >> AND THAT ALLOWS-- FREES THEM UP TO STAY INSIDE AND DO SCIENCE AND RESEARCH, DO ALL THAT GREAT STUFF. >> ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, THE WHOLE BENEFIT OF SENDING HUMANS OUT TO DO SPACEWALKS IS-- YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THEY CAN MAKE DECISIONS REAL TIME, AND IT’S REAL QUICK ON WHAT THEY CAN DO. BUT THEY HAVE HANDS-- THEY CAN USE TOOLS, AND THOSE TOOLS ARE MEANT TO OPERATE AND FIX THINGS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE STATION, BUT YOU’RE SAYING THAT DEXTRE, IN A WAY, AT THE END OF THE CANADARM2 CAN ACCOMPLISH A LOT OF THOSE TASKS AND THEN DO SOME OF THE SERVICE WORK THAT THE ASTRONAUTS WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE TO DO. >> RIGHT. I MEAN, DEXTRE IN ONE SENSE IS A TOOL. >> HMM. >> THE ROBOTS THEMSELVES, THEY ARE NOT THINKING FOR THEMSELVES. WE CAN’T-- WE’RE NOT YET AT THE POINT WHERE WE CAN TELL IT, “GO CHANGE OUT THAT BOX,” AND IT GOES AND DOES IT ON ITS OWN. >> AS COOL AS THAT WOULD BE. >> AS COOL AS THAT WILL BE, AND THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN THAT WILL BE. HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT THERE YET. >> OKAY. >> WHEN WE STARTED OUT, WHEN WE FIRST LAUNCHED THE ARM, JUST LIKE THE SHUTTLE ARM, ON SPACE STATION, WE HAD A SYSTEM THAT HAD TO BE OPERATED BY THE CREW ON ORBIT. AND THERE IS WHAT WE CALL THE ROBOTICS WORKSTATION-- ONE IN THE LAB MODULE, ONE IN THE CUPOLA WHERE ALL THE WINDOWS ARE. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THE ASTRONAUTS CAN BE THERE, AND THEY CAN OPERATE THE ARM. AND THEY HAVE HAND CONTROLLERS, AND THEY THROW THE SWITCHES, AND THEY HAVE MONITORS THAT SHOW THE CAMERA VIEWS FROM CAMERAS ON THE ARM, CAMERAS ELSEWHERE ON THE STATION. AND WHAT WE REALIZED ACTUALLY AFTER THE ARM WAS FLOWN WAS THAT AS MUCH WORK AS WE DO ON SPACE STATION, WE COULD DO THIS FROM THE GROUND-- WE COULD REMOTELY OPERATE THESE ROBOTS SAFELY FROM THE GROUND. AND DURING THE COURSE OF SPACE STATION ASSEMBLY-- AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS, ESPECIALLY MOSTLY FOR CANADARM2, WAS ASSEMBLY OF THE SPACE STATION. THERE WERE VERY FEW PIECES OF-- BIG PIECES ON THE U.S. SEGMENT OF THE SPACE STATION, WHETHER MODULES OR BIG PIECES OF TRUSS, THAT WEREN’T HANDLED BY CANADARM2. >> WOW. >> YEAH, I MEAN, WHETHER-- I MEAN, OFTEN THE SHUTTLE ARM HAD TO TAKE THESE THINGS OUT OF THE PAYLOAD BAY OF THE SHUTTLE WHEN IT CAME UP, HAND IT OFF TO CANADARM2, AND THEY WOULD THEN BE INSTALLED. AND THE STATION WAS BUILT UP IN THAT WAY. SO CANADARM2 IN A VERY REAL SENSE ASSEMBLED THE SPACE STATION. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> BUT ONCE WE GOT PAST THAT, WE REALIZED WE CAN DO A LOT OF THIS WORK BY REMOTELY OPERATING THIS SYSTEM FROM THE GROUND, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE OPERATE DEXTRE. IF WE’RE GOING TO GO DO MAINTENANCE-- ONE OF THOSE POWER CONTROL MODULE REPLACEMENTS-- DOING IT ROBOTICALLY CAN TAKE ACTUALLY QUITE A LONG TIME. ALL THE END TO END WORK, GETTING THE SPARE, GETTING TO THE WORKSITE. >> YEAH. >> PULLING THE OLD ONE OUT, PUTTING THE NEW ONE IN-- THAT CAN ACTUALLY TAKE A COUPLE DAYS EVEN, IN A LONG, COMPLEX CASE. AND THE ASTRONAUTS ONBOARD ARE TOO BUSY FOR THAT. >> YEAH. >> SO WE FIGURED-- WE WENT THROUGH THIS LONG PROCESS, A LOT OF IT DEALING WITH THE SAFETY PROCESSES, MAKING SURE WE HAD WHAT WE CALL ENOUGH FAULT TOLERANCE THAT NO ONE FAILURE COULD REALLY LEAVE US IN TROUBLE DURING THE COURSE OF THIS-- AND ESTABLISHED WHAT WE CALLED GROUND CONTROL. AND IN FACT, TODAY, MOST OF THE ROBOTICS WORK THAT GOES ON ON SPACE STATION IS DONE CONTROLLING OUR ROBOTS FROM THE GROUND-- WHETHER HERE AT MISSION CONTROL IN HOUSTON, OR WE HAVE A SUPPORT CONTROL CENTER IN MONTREAL IN CANADA THAT CONNECTS HERE TO MISSION CONTROL, AND THAT ONE UNIFIED CANADIAN/AMERICAN TEAM OPERATES THE ARM FROM THE GROUND. >> WOW. >> AND THAT’S A TREMENDOUS TIME SAVING FOR THE ASTRONAUT CREW, BUT ALSO AN AMAZING ENHANCEMENT FOR THE WHOLE PROGRAM, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS US TO JUST DO SO MUCH MORE THAN WE OTHERWISE WOULD. >> SO WHEN IT FIRST-- YOU MENTIONED WHEN IT FIRST LAUNCHED, THE CANADARM2 TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION, IT WAS WORKING HAND IN HAND WITH SHUTTLE ARMS, RIGHT? YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT A HAND-OFF. THAT WAS ALL OPERATED BY ASTRONAUTS, BOTH THE SHUTTLE ARM AND THE CANADARM2 FROM THE SPACE STATION? >> ABSOLUTELY, AND AT THAT TIME, WE HAD TWO FLIGHT CONTROL TEAMS, BECAUSE WE HAD THE SPACE SHUTTLE ROBOTIC ARM FLIGHT CONTROLLERS-- AND ALTHOUGH IT’S ALSO A BIG WHITE ARM THAT SAYS CANADA ON THE SIDE, IT’S ACTUALLY QUITE A DIFFERENT SYSTEM UNDER THE SKIN, SO WE HAD THOSE GUYS, THOSE FLIGHT CONTROLLERS WHO BUILT THOSE PROCEDURES, WORK WITH THE SHUTTLE ASTRONAUTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT PROCEDURE WOULD GO JUST RIGHT. AND THEN ON THE SPACE STATION SIDE, WE BUILT THE PROCEDURES FOR OUR SYSTEM, WORKED WITH THAT CREW AND ORCHESTRATED WHAT WERE SOMETIMES FAIRLY COMPLEX HAND-OFF OPERATIONS. >> HUH. YEAH, I MEAN, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IN SPACE, TRAVELLING AROUND THE EARTH AT 17,500 MILES AN HOUR, TWO SHIPS PRETTY MUCH TRAVELLING THAT FAST TOGETHER AND HANDING OFF STUFF TO EACH OTHER. >> IT’S-- THE COMPLEXITY OF-- ESPECIALLY DURING THOSE SPACE SHUTTLE MISSIONS, THE WHOLE DAY WAS TIMELINED SO TIGHTLY THAT EVERYTHING HAD TO GO JUST RIGHT. AND WE’VE GOT, IN THOSE CASES-- AND THIS IS WHAT I USED TO DO. WHEN I FIRST CAME TO HOUSTON, I WAS WORKING ON THE SPACE STATION ROBOTICS FLIGHT CONTROL SIDE. I WAS WHAT THEY CALLED A ROBO. THAT WAS THE NAME OF OUR-- THE FLIGHT CONTROL DISCIPLINE. >> AND YOU WERE IN CHARGE OF THE CANADARM2? >> RIGHT. >> OKAY. >> AND WE HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE TWO BIG ROBOTIC ARMS-- WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, NEVER BUMPED INTO ANYTHING, INCLUDING EACH OTHER. SO YOU KNOW, MONITORING THE VOLUMES THAT THEY’RE WORKING IN, MAYBE MAKING SURE THAT WHILE ONE OF THEM’S MOVING THE OTHER ONE’S NOT-- ALL OF THE STEPS THAT YOU WOULD LOGICALLY TAKE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE ALL THE MOVING PIECES ARE. >> YEAH. >> AND A HAND-OFF, SOMETHING THAT YOU AND I WOULD DO TRIVIALLY SITTING HERE HANDING A PEN FROM ONE ARM TO THE OTHER. >> MM-HMM. >> AGAIN, EVERYTHING’S MORE COMPLICATED WHEN YOU’RE DOING IT WITH SPACE ROBOTS. >> YOU’RE DOING IT FROM FAR AWAY, IN SPACE, SEVERAL ROBOTS, SEVERAL TEAMS. >> RIGHT, AND ALSO, THE-- WE DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT THE SOPHISTICATION THAT WE HAVE WITH OUR OWN ARMS. WE CAN EXACTLY WHEN SOMEBODY’S PULLING TOO HARD AND LET GO REFLEXIVELY. THE ROBOTIC ARMS AREN’T INSTRUMENTED QUITE THAT WELL, SO A LOT OF THE WORK THAT WE DO IS TO ANALYZE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LOADS ARE NOT GOING TO BE SO LARGE THAT THE ARM GETS DAMAGED, OR THE OPERATING BASE THAT IT’S WORKING FROM GETS DAMAGED, OR THE PAYLOAD THAT WE’RE HANDING OFF GETS DAMAGED. AGAIN, THE COMPLEXITY OF THAT BIG PICTURE IS REALLY REMARKABLE. >> SO I MEAN, IN SPACE, THOUGH-- YOU THINK ABOUT IT-- I MEAN, THERE’S-- YOU DON’T REALLY HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GRAVITY. SO WHEN YOU’RE HANDLING THESE OBJECTS, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT WHEN HANDLING LARGE PAYLOADS? >> WELL, AND THAT’S RIGHT, BECAUSE NOTHING-- THERE’S NOT REALLY WEIGHT. >> MM-HMM. >> BUT THERE IS STILL MASS. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND WITH MASS COMES INERTIA AND MOMENTUM. >> YES. >> AND ANYTHING THAT YOU GET MOVING YOU’RE EVENTUALLY GOING TO HAVE TO SLOW DOWN. AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT MANEUVERING MODULES AROUND. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE OFTEN JOKE THAT THESE ROBOTS, GOSH, THEY MOVE SO SLOWLY. >> RIGHT. >> AND THAT’S NOT TO SAY THAT THEY COULDN’T MOVE FASTER, BUT IF THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE CONSEQUENCES. WE HAVE SEEN-- YOU GET MODULES MOVING REALLY QUICKLY AND THEN ALL OF THAT MOMENTUM HAS TO BE TAKEN OUT AT THE OTHER END OF THE MOTION. >> YOU’VE GOT TO STOP, YEAH. >> OTHERWISE THE STATION’S ORIENTATION WOULD HAVE TO ADJUST TO THAT. >> OH, ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, EVEN THE STATION’S ORIENTATION CHANGES WHEN ASTRONAUTS ARE WORKING OUT. AND THEY BUILT SYSTEMS TO MITIGATE THAT. SO IF YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT A REALLY LARGE OBJECT, I MEAN, YOU DON’T DO IT RIGHT AND YOU CAN FLING-- YOU CAN-- YOU KNOW-- >> YOU CAN FLIP THE STATION OVER. >> YEAH. >> BECAUSE THESE MODULES OFTEN WEIGH TENS OF THOUSANDS OF POUNDS. >> WOW. >> AND AGAIN, WE MANEUVER THOSE WITH GREAT CARE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE MANAGING THAT MOMENTUM IN AN INTELLIGENT WAY SO THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE MOMENTUM DOESN’T GET THE BEST OF US. >> SO BY MANAGING MOMENTUM, THAT’S WHERE MOVING THINGS SLOWLY FROM POINT A TO POINT B COMES INTO PLACE. >> THAT’S RIGHT. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND I’M GUESSING THERE’S SOME SORT OF SPECIAL TECHNIQUE, TOO, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU’VE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO START A MOTION, BUT THEN ALSO STOP. IS THERE LIKE A SLOW ACCELERATION AND THEN A SLOW DECELERATION? IS THERE A FANCY TECHNIQUE YOU GUYS USE? >> I’M NOT SURE HOW FANCY A TECHNIQUE IT IS. >> OKAY. >> YOU MAKE SURE YOU’RE NOT GETTING IT GOING TOO FAST. YOU WANT TO-- THE ARM IS DESIGNED TO MOVE THINGS IN STRAIGHT LINES. IF THAT IS OUR DESIRE-- CERTAINLY IF WE ARE BERTHING A MODULE INTO THAT BERTHING INTERFACE ON THE SPACE STATION, IT NEEDS TO GO IN RIGHT ALONG AT A PERFECT, ALIGNED AXIS FOR THE MECHANISM TO LINE UP PROPERLY. AND WE CAN DO THAT, AND AGAIN, THAT GENERALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN PRETTY SLOWLY, BECAUSE IF YOU PUSH TOO HARD, AGAIN, IF YOU’RE PUSHING THAT DRAWER INTO YOUR CHEST OF DRAWERS AT HOME, IF YOU PUSH IT TOO HARD, IT’S GOING TO BANG AT THE BACK. OR IF YOU’RE PULLING IT OUT, AND IT STICKS, AND YOU PULL HARDER AND HARDER AND HARDER, ALL OF A SUDDEN WHEN IT LETS GO-- WE’VE ALL FELT THAT-- ALL OF A SUDDEN IT JERKS OUT AT US. >> YEAH. >> AND WE WANT TO AVOID THAT SORT OF MOMENTUM RELEASE ON THE SPACE STATION. >> ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, IT SEEMS PRETTY INTUITIVE TO US, RIGHT-- YOU KNOW, IF YOU FEEL SOMETHING PULLING TOO HARD, THEN PULL A BIT HARDER OR SOMETHING, MAKE IT COME OUT, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. AND YOU CAN MAKE THOSE DECISIONS REAL TIME, BUT IF YOU’RE DESIGNING A SYSTEM TO DO THAT, YOU’VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT ALL THESE MINUTE LITTLE THINGS. I KNOW-- I MEAN, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE I DO COMMENTARY SOMETIMES IN MISSION CONTROL, AND WE’LL DO THAT FOR CAPTURING CARGO. SO WE’LL CAPTURE A SPACEX DRAGON OR AN ORBITAL ATK CYGNUS VEHICLE. AND YOU KNOW, IT’LL HAVE THIS MOTION WHERE IT CAPTURES, AND WE’LL ACTUALLY GO OFF-AIR FOR A LITTLE BIT ONCE IT’S CAPTURED. WE’LL SAY THE CAPTURED TIME, AND THEN WE GO OFF-AIR FOR ABOUT AN HOUR, MAYBE AN HOUR AND SOME CHANGE, AND THEN WE’LL COME BACK ON WHEN IT’S IN BERTHING POSITION. BECAUSE IT’S THIS BIG PROCEDURE, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT HAS TO TURN, AND WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN, SO THERE’S LITTLE COMMENTARY WE CAN ADD BETWEEN THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THAT PROCEDURE IN ORDER TO BERTH IT. >> RIGHT, AND THAT CARGO VEHICLE, WHICH WEIGHS PROBABLY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF POUNDS, IS GOING TO BE FLIPPED AROUND, MANEUVERED AROUND REALLY SLOWLY SO THE SPACE STATION’S MOMENTUM MANAGEMENT SYSTEM CAN SORT OF KEEP UP WITH ALL OF THAT AND ALLOW THE SPACE STATION TO MAINTAIN THE PROPER ORIENTATION, KEEP THE SOLAR ARRAYS POINTED AT THE SUN, KEEP THE ANTENNAS POINTED AT THE SATELLITES. >> WOW-- JUST A LOT OF THINGS YOU HAVE TO THINK OF. BUT YOU KNOW, KIND OF GOING BACK TO THE HISTORY, YOU BRIEFLY MENTIONED THAT, I MEAN, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION THAT STARTED WITH NASA AND-- I’M SORRY, IT WAS NOT CSA AT THE TIME, IT WAS-- >> CSA WAS ESTABLISHED BY AN ACT OF PARLIAMENT IN 1989. >> OH, OKAY. >> AND BEFORE THAT, CSA-- CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY-- DIDN’T EXIST. IT WAS THE NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL. >> OKAY. >> AND THAT WAS SORT OF THE ORIGINAL SCIENCE ORGANIZATION WITHIN THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT THAT ESTABLISHED THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH NASA, WORKED WITH CANADIAN INDUSTRY TO DESIGN AND BUILD WHAT WE CALL THE CANADARM, THE REMOTE MANIPULATOR SYSTEM. >> YEAH. >> AND THEN PROVIDE THAT TO BE PART OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE PROGRAM. >> OKAY. SO WHAT WAS THE-- WHY DID NASA GO AND HAVE THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NATIONAL RESOURCE COUNCIL? SO WHAT WAS IT-- DID YOU ALREADY-- WERE YOU ALREADY INVENTING ROBOTIC ARMS? >> I THINK AT THAT TIME, THE ROBOTIC ARM WAS A RELATIVELY NEW CONCEPT. >> OKAY. >> THERE WERE ENGINEERS WHO REALIZED THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD DO. THE INDUSTRIAL GROUP THAT WAS PART OF THAT, WHICH INCLUDED WHAT WAS THEN SPAR AEROSPACE, WHO WERE THE PRIME CONTRACTOR FOR THE ROBOTIC ARM, THEY ALREADY HAD A HISTORY WITH ANTENNAE AND SPACE MECHANISMS THAT WENT ON SATELLITES. AND I THINK THIS WAS A NATURAL EXPANSION OF SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD DO. AND IT WAS KIND OF A REVOLUTIONARY DESIGN. IT WAS CERTAINLY NOT SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN DONE IN SPACE BEFORE. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND ONCE THAT CAPABILITY ARRIVES AND YOU START USING IT-- JUST AS WHEN YOU GET A NEW TOOL AT HOME-- IT’S COOL, AND YOU PLAY WITH IT. AND ONCE YOU START PLAYING WITH IT, THEN YOU REALLY START TO SAY, “HEY, I COULD USE IT FOR THIS. I COULD USE IT FOR THIS.” AND AS I WAS SAYING BEFORE, WHEN LITTLE CONTINGENCIES COME UP, YOU GO, “OKAY, WELL, LET’S GO TAKE A LOOK AT IT WITH THE ARM.” SO YOU CAN GET THE ARM IN A NEW POSITION IT’S NEVER BEEN IN AND POINT A CAMERA TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOMETHING. >> RIGHT. >> GO KNOCK THAT ICICLE OFF-- WHATEVER THE NEW CAPABILITIES ARE. AND THAT’S WHAT ROBOTS BRING, IS THIS ABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR ENVIRONMENT AND EXPAND YOUR CAPABILITY. >> SO WHENEVER-- YOU SAID THE FIRST CANADARM FLEW ON STS-2, RIGHT? AND THAT WAS RELATIVELY QUICKLY-- IT WAS ALREADY ON SHUTTLE FLIGHTS. SO WHAT DID YOU START LEARNING THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF-- I GUESS YOU WENT ON MORE SHUTTLE FLIGHTS AFTER THAT, RIGHT? THE CANADARM 1? >> RIGHT, THE ORIGINAL CANADARM. I DON’T KNOW THE PROPORTION OF HOW MANY FLIGHTS IT WAS ON, HOW MANY IT WASN’T. MOST TIMES THAT THEY NEEDED TO DEPLOY A SATELLITE-- SOMETIMES THE SATELLITES WOULD-- THERE WOULD BE A MECHANISM THAT WOULD JUST SORT OF POP IT OUT OF THE PAYLOAD BAY. >> YEAH. >> BUT OFTEN, IF THERE WAS A SATELLITE CAPTURE THAT NEEDED TO GO ON, YOU NEEDED THE ARM TO HAVE THE SHUTTLE FLY UP-- THE ARM WOULD THEN REACH OUT, GRAB THE SATELLITE, AND THEN MAYBE BERTH IT INTO SOMETHING IN THE PAYLOAD BAY. IF THERE WERE SPACEWALKS, YOU COULD PUT AN ASTRONAUT IN A FOOT RESTRAINT STANDING ON THE END OF THE ARM, AND HAVE THE ARM MANEUVER THAT ASTRONAUT AROUND. >> OKAY. >> BECAUSE AGAIN, IN SPACE, YOU’RE NOT STANDING ON ANYTHING. YOU’RE NOT MOVING IN THE CONVENTIONAL SENSE THAT WE ARE USED TO, WORKING ON A WORKSITE HERE IN 1 G. >> RIGHT. >> SO IT WAS JUST A SERIES OF MORE AND MORE EXPANSIVE CAPABILITIES. AND THERE ARE ACTUALLY SOME REALLY NEAT PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THOSE EARLY SHUTTLE MISSIONS. THEY WERE EXPERIMENTING WITH BUILDING TRUSSES. THIS WAS BEFORE SPACE STATION, AND THEY WERE IMAGINING HOW SPACE STATION MIGHT BE BUILT. AND SOME OF THOSE EARLY CONCEPTS WERE SORT OF STICKS AND BALLS, AND THEY WOULD MAKE THESE BIG TRUSSES AND MANEUVER THEM AROUND. >> THAT’S AMAZING. SO WHEN YOU’RE LEARNING ALONG THIS WAY, YOU HAVE A NEED-- FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE IT SAYS, “HEY, WE NEED A-- WE HAVE SOMETHING COMING UP WHERE WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO PROBABLY PUT AN ASTRONAUT AT THE END OF THIS ARM.” SO DO YOU DEVELOP TOOLS THAT THEY CAN INTERACT WITH IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN SO THEY CAN PUT THEIR FEET IN THERE? >> RIGHT, THE ARM WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO BE FITTED WITH SOME SORT OF SOCKET OR FIXTURE. SO WHAT THEY CALL A FOOT RESTRAINT COULD BE REALLY SECURELY ATTACHED, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE LAST THING YOU WANT IS YOU PUT IT ON BUT THEN WHEN YOU’RE STANDING ON IT, IT FLOATS OFF. >> YEAH. >> SO IT’S ALL ABOUT CREW SAFETY, AND THE CREW HAS GOT TO BE SAFELY ATTACHED AND THEN SAFELY TETHERED IN A REDUNDANT WAY SO THEY DON’T FLOAT AWAY. BUT YEAH, EVERY TIME WE HAVE A NEW CAPABILITY LIKE THAT, OFTEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE HARDWARE AND GO, “OKAY, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO AND ADJUST OR ADD?” BUT A THING TO REMEMBER THERE-- ON THE SPACE SHUTTLE PROGRAM, THE SPACE SHUTTLE CAME HOME AFTER ITS MISSION, WHETHER IT WAS ONE WEEK, OR TWO WEEKS, OR WHATEVER IT WAS. >> RIGHT. >> AND THE GUYS AT SPAR WOULD GET THAT ARM BACK, AND THEY WOULD GET TO LOVINGLY DOTE OVER IT AND SEE HOW IT WAS DOING. >> YEAH. >> AND THEN PREPARE ANOTHER ARM. AND THERE WERE A FEW ARMS THAT I THINK GOT ROTATED BETWEEN THE SPACE SHUTTLES. THEY COULD BE TAKEN OFF AND PUT BACK ON. >> RIGHT, THERE WERE MULTIPLE SHUTTLES AND MULTIPLE MISSIONS. >> RIGHT. >> YEAH. >> SO THAT SORT OF ADJUSTMENT COULD BE MADE RELATIVELY EASY. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND WHAT WE HAVE NOW ON SPACE STATION IS THAT CANADARM2 WAS LAUNCHED IN APRIL 2001 ON A SPACE SHUTTLE MISSION. IT WAS ATTACHED TO THE SPACE STATION AND HAS BEEN THERE EVER SINCE. >> STILL WORKING. >> STILL WORKING, YES. STILL WORKING MORE THAN 16 YEARS LATER. >> WOW. >> AND THAT’S JUST A WONDERFUL THING, AND WHAT WE’VE REALLY SEEN IS THAT ESPECIALLY IN RECENT YEARS, THE PACE OF THE ROBOTICS WORK HAS JUST BEEN INCREASING. I TALKED ABOUT THE FREEFLYING CARGO VEHICLES. THE VERY FIRST ONE-- AND WHAT A MILESTONE THAT WAS-- IN 2009 WITH THE FIRST JAPANESE CARGO VEHICLE. AND THEN THE U.S. COMMERCIAL VEHICLES STARTED FLYING-- THE SPACEX DRAGON AND THE ORBITAL ATK CYGNUS VEHICLES. AND THEY DID THEIR DEMO FLIGHTS, THEN THEY WOULD START-- AND THE PACE HAS BEEN INCREASING. SO NOW WE DO ONE OF-- WE ARE CAPTURING A FREEFLYING CARGO VEHICLE EVERY MONTH OR TWO. >> THAT’S RIGHT-- WE HAVE TWO COMING UP IN NOVEMBER. >> RIGHT. THIS YEAR, THIS CALENDAR YEAR, 2017, ALL GOING WELL, WE WILL HAVE DONE SIX FREEFLYING CARGO VEHICLES. LAST YEAR I THINK IT WAS FIVE. >> WOW. >> THE PACE IS ALWAYS INCREASING. AND THE SPACE STATION PROGRAM IS REALIZING, TOO, THAT OUR ABILITY TO DO MAINTENANCE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE ISS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT, VALUABLE THING. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND NOW THAT WE’VE DEMONSTRATED THAT WE’RE ABLE TO DO IT-- AND JUST AS WITH US AS HUMANS, THE FIRST TIME YOU DO SOMETHING, YOU ALWAYS THINK ABOUT IT A LOT MORE, IT ALWAYS SEEMS A LITTLE BIT HARDER. BUT ONCE YOU’VE DONE SOMETHING A COUPLE OF TIMES, YOU KIND OF GET THE HANG OF IT. >> YEAH. >> AND NOW WE’VE DONE A FEW MAINTENANCE TASKS WITH THOSE POWER CONTROLLER MODULES. WE RELATIVELY RECENTLY DID WHAT’S CALLED A MAIN BUS SWITCHING UNIT, WHICH IS PART OF THE SPACE STATION POWER SYSTEM. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THE DEMAND IS INCREASING. HEY-- WE’VE DONE THIS BEFORE. CAN WE SLIP THIS TASK IN BETWEEN THIS FREEFLYING VEHICLE AND THIS FREEFLYING VEHICLE? SO THE EFFORT-- THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT THE ROBOTS ARE CONTINUALLY DOING JUST SEEMS TO BE INCREASING, AND THAT’S THE REALLY EXCITING PART IS BECAUSE THE SYSTEM WAS BUILT TO BE USED. IT’S WORKING FABULOUSLY WELL. >> YEAH. >> AND THE MORE WE USE IT THE MORE THE APPETITE OF THE PROGRAM TO USE IT MORE-- BECAUSE WE CAN ACCOMPLISH MORE-- THAT APPETITE’S INCREASING AND THAT’S JUST GREAT. >> SO USES-WISE IT’S GOING UP. AND YOU SAID THERE’S A LOT OF STUFF THAT IT’S DOING, ESPECIALLY YOU WERE TALKING A LOT ABOUT CAPTURING CARGO VEHICLES. SO WHEN-- EVEN COMMERCIAL COMPANIES ARE DESIGNING THEIR CARGO VEHICLE-- THEY SAY, “WELL, HOW-- WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN ONCE IT GETS TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION?” AND THEY THINK, “WELL, THERE’S A ROBOTIC ARM. THE ROBOTIC ARM CAN CAPTURE IT AND THEY CAN DO THAT.” SO, I MEAN, YOU’VE GOT A LOT OF MISSIONS AND A LOT MORE TASKS COMING UP. AND YOU SORT OF HINTED AT IT, BUT WHAT IS IT DOING IN BETWEEN THESE CARGO MISSIONS? IT’S CAPTURING CARGO WHEN IT COMES TO THE STATION, BUT WHAT ELSE IS IT DOING? YOU MENTIONED THAT MPSU WAS ONE OF THEM-- THE POWER UNIT. >> RIGHT. WELL, THERE IS STATION MAINTENANCE AND ACTIVITIES. >> MM-HMM. >> BUT OFTEN, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF THE SPACEX DRAGON VEHICLE, IT HAS IN BEHIND THE PRESSURIZED MODULE THERE IS WHAT WE CALL THE TRUNK, AND THAT’S A CYLINDRICAL SPACE THAT’S OPEN AT THE BACK AND THEY HAVE BEEN FLYING EXTERNAL CARGO IN THE TRUNK. AND THAT CARGO CAN ONLY BE EXTRACTED USING OUR ROBOTS. >> OH, YES. >> SO WE WILL-- FOR EXAMPLE, COMING RIGHT UP AT THE END OF THIS YEAR, SPACEX 13 IS GOING TO HAVE THREE ITEMS IN THE TRUNK THAT ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE DEPLOYED. SO AFTER THE BIG ARM CAPTURES THE DRAGON, BERTHS IT TO THE SPACE STATION, THEN WE’RE GOING TO GO HAVE THE BIG ARM PICK UP DEXTRE AND THEN WITH DEXTRE REACH INTO THE TRUNK AND TAKE THOSE THREE ITEMS OUT AND DO WITH THEM WHATEVER THEY ARE. MORE AND MORE LATELY, WE HAVE BEEN HANDLING SCIENCE PAYLOADS FOR EXTERNAL. IT’S NOT ACTUALLY MAINTENANCE. IT’S PART OF SPACE STATION SCIENCE THAT WE’RE ABLE TO SUPPORT WITH THE CANADIAN ROBOT. AND THOSE PIECES OF SCIENCE HARDWARE WERE MADE TO BE ATTACHED TO THE STATION TRUSS OR ONE OF THE MODULES SOMEPLACE. SOMETIMES WE TAKE OLD EXPERIMENTS OR OLD HARDWARE THAT’S NO LONGER NEEDED, THERE’S NOT ROOM FOR IT ANYMORE ON THE SPACE STATION, WE NEED THE ATTACHMENT POINT SO WE’LL PUT IT BACK IN THE TRUNK FOR IT TO BE DEORBITED. >> OH. >> AND THE STUFF IN THE TRUNK DOESN’T RETURN TO EARTH IN THE CONVENTIONAL SENSE. IT BURNS UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE. >> RIGHT. >> BUT IT NEEDS TO BE OFF THE STATION. SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO TAKE OUT THE TRASH, OTHERWISE THERE’S NO ROOM IN YOUR HOUSE ANYMORE. YEAH. I MEAN, THAT-- I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT AS AN ANALOGY WHILE YOU WERE DESCRIBING THAT. IT’S KIND OF LIKE YOU HAVE A SHIPMENT TO-- THAT’S DELIVERED TO YOUR HOUSE AND THEN YOU HAVE A ROBOT UNPACK IT FOR YOU AND PUT IT WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE. I THINK WE SHOULD PUT SOME OF THESE ROBOTIC ARMS IN OUR HOMES. >> THERE YOU GO. >> BECAUSE I REALLY DON’T WANT TO UNPACK MY GROCERIES ANYMORE. >> WELL, THERE YOU GO. >> I COULD JUST HAVE A CANADARM TO DO IT. >> AND OFTEN, AFTER YOU TAKE-- AFTER YOU TAKE THAT DELIVERY AT HOME THERE’S ALL THESE BOXES THAT YOU THEN GOT TO GET RID OF. >> YEAH. RIGHT. OH, YEAH, SO THEN IT CAN PACK OUT ALL MY GROCERIES, PUT IT IN THE FRIDGE, AND THEN THROW AWAY ALL THE BOXES THAT IT CAME IN. THERE YOU GO. >> THERE YOU GO. >> YEAH, YOU HAVE A LOT MORE CAPABILITIES TOO, BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED THE DEXTRE TOO. SO THE LATCHING END EFFECTOR CAN GRAB X, Y, AND Z, RIGHT? BUT, MAYBE IT CAN’T GRAB MLB, BUT IF YOU ATTACHED THE DEXTRE TO IT, DEXTRE CAN GRAB MLB, RIGHT? SO IT THAT KIND OF HOW IT WORKS? IT HAS DIFFERENT THINGS THAT IT CAN GRAB, DIFFERENT FINGERS? >> RIGHT, AND WITH DEXTRE, WE HAVE A MUCH MORE REFINED PRECISE CAPABILITY. >> MM-HMM. >> AND GIVEN ITS SIZE, IT’S LIKE OVER-- TRYING TO REMEMBER IN MY HEAD. IT’S OVER 17 METERS LONG, THE BIG ARM. >> WOW. >> IT STILL CAN PRECISELY POSITION ITS TIP TO WITHIN A COUPLE OF CENTIMETERS. >> HMM. >> BUT WITH DEXTRE, THOSE SMALLER ARM’S DESIGNED WITH MUCH MORE REFINED END EFFECTORS. THE PRECISION THAT IS POSSIBLE IS ACTUALLY KIND OF MILLIMETER LEVEL. >> WOW. >> AND WE SEE THAT LOOKING THROUGH-- WE HAVE A BORESIGHT CAMERA IN THOSE DEXTROUS ARM END EFFECTORS AND WE CAN SEE OURSELVES MANEUVERING DOWN ONTO THE GRASP FIXTURES. AND IT’S A VERY PRECISE CAPABILITY. SO IF WE NEED TO REMOVE SOME POWER CONTROLLER MODULE, THE POSITIONING REQUIREMENTS ARE FAIRLY TIGHT. >> YEAH. >> AND WITH DEXTRE WE HAVE THAT CAPABILITY AND IT’S PRETTY REMARKABLE TO SEE WHAT’S POSSIBLE. >> THERE YOU GO. DEXTRE CAN GET EXACTLY TO WHERE YOU NEED TO BE BY A MATTER OF MILLIMETERS. >> RIGHT. RIGHT. AND ALSO, WITH THAT FORCE IN MOMENT SENSING CAPABILITY THAT I DESCRIBED THAT WE HAVE WITH CANADARM2, WE ALSO HAVE IT IN DEXTRE’S DEXTROUS ARMS. >> OKAY. >> SO AGAIN, WHEN YOU’RE INSERTING A BOX INTO A SLOT, YOU REALLY VALUE THAT ABILITY TO DETECT THOSE SIDE FORCES. >> YEAH. >> AND MAKE SURE YOU’RE NOT GETTING IT BOUND UP. >> WOW. AND ALL OF THIS IS BEING OPERATED FROM THE GROUND, RIGHT? >> CONTROLLED FROM THE GROUND. >> SO WHO’S-- I GUESS, IS IT-- I ACTUALLY FORGOT TO ASK YOU THIS QUESTION NOW THAT I’M THINKING ABOUT IT. BUT, YOU SAID YOU WERE A FLIGHT CONTROLLER FOR A WHILE, YOU WERE ROBO. WHO WERE YOU TALKING TO TO PULL OFF SOME OF THESE MANEUVERS? BECAUSE YOU SAID IT’S A BIG COORDINATION ACT OBVIOUSLY ON YOUR END. THERE’S A DECENT AMOUNT OF COMMUNICATION THAT NEEDS TO GO BY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. >> WELL, AT THE VERY BEGINNING, AND I WAS A ROBO IN THOSE VERY FIRST YEARS STARTING IN 2001. >> MM-HMM. >> AT THAT POINT, WE WERE NOT YET ACTUALLY DOING GROUND CONTROLLED MOTION. THAT DIDN’T START UNTIL YEARS LATER, UNTIL AFTER I ACTUALLY HAD MOVED OUT OF THAT JOB. >> OH. OH, OKAY. >> WE WERE STILL COMMANDING OUR SYSTEM, SO WE WOULD POWER UP THE-- WE WOULD POWER THE SYSTEM UP BECAUSE THERE’S NO MOTION INVOLVED. BUT WHEN YOU POWER UP YOUR COMPUTER YOU PUSH THE BUTTON THAT STARTS THE POWER, YOU MIGHT DO THE LOG-IN, YOU MIGHT LOAD SOFTWARE IN A PARTICULAR WAY. >> MM-HMM. NONE OF THAT ACTUALLY MOVED ANYTHING. >> OH. >> WE SEND ALL OF THOSE COMMANDS. WE COULD ALSO PAN AND TILT THE CAMERAS. >> HMM. >> WHICH IS ACTUALLY MOTION IN A SMALL WAY. >> YEAH, YEAH. >> BUT, THE FLIGHT CONTROLLERS, THE COORDINATION IS THROUGH THE FLIGHT DIRECTOR. >> AH. >> AND FOR THE ROBOS, IT’S HOUSTON FLIGHT. >> OKAY. >> SO THAT’S OUR DIRECT REAL TIME AUTHORITY COMES FROM THE FLIGHT DIRECTOR. THAT’S WHO WE REPORT TO. >> OKAY. SO OKAY, YOU WERE MOVING HOUSTON FLIGHT I’M GOING TO DO-- MANEUVER X, Y, Z. >> EXACTLY. AND COORDINATING WITH THE OTHER FLIGHT CONTROLLERS IN THE ROOM. >> RIGHT. >> BECAUSE WE POWER CERTAINLY COMMUNICATIONS, ALL OF THAT INTERACTION NEEDS TO GO ON TO MAKE SURE-- AND THE TIMING JUST RIGHT, MAKE SURE IF THE CREW ARE EXERCISING AND THERE’S A LITTLE BIT OF VIBRATION, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STAY AWAY FROM THAT ON THE SCHEDULE. >> MM-HMM. SO, SAY FOR EXAMPLE WE WERE DOING A-- WE’RE DOING A MANEUVER TO CAPTURE THE DRAGON, FOR EXAMPLE. AND SO, THE CREW IS THE ONE THAT ACTUALLY CAPTURES THE DRAGON NOW, RIGHT? SO THEY’RE-- >> RIGHT, THAT’S ONE THING WE DON’T DO FROM THE GROUND IS THE PREFLIGHT CAPTURES AND RELEASES. >> SO THEN AFTERWARDS, YOU HAVE TO MOVE IT INTO ITS BERTHING POSITION AND YOU DO THAT FROM THE GROUND, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> SO, WHO IS DOING THAT-- IS THERE COORDINATION WITH THE ROBO CONSOLE ON-- IN MISSION CONTROL HOUSTON, IS THERE A CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY INVOLVEMENT AS WELL? >> THE ROBO CONSOLE-- THE WAY IT WORKS IS WE HAVE THE FRONT ROOM, WHICH IS WHERE THE FLIGHT DIRECTOR IS. >> OKAY. >> AND USUALLY THE ROBO IS THERE, BUT ALSO HERE IN MISSION CONTROL THERE IS WHAT THEY CALL A BACK ROOM. >> OKAY. >> AND THERE ARE TWO MORE SUPPORT ROBOTICS FLIGHT CONTROLLERS WHO TALK TO THE ROBO AND THEY’RE PART OF THAT TEAM. >> OKAY. >> THERE IS ALSO A BACK ROOM IN MONTREAL. >> AH. >> SO THOSE SUPPORTING FLIGHT CONTROLLERS-- OR NOW, EVEN SOMETIMES EVEN THE ROBO, HIM OR HER SELF, CAN BE UP THERE IN MONTREAL, STILL TALKING TO HOUSTON FLIGHT. >> RIGHT. >> THAT COMMAND IN CONTROL LINE OF AUTHORITY STILL WORKS IN JUST THE SAME WAY. IT’S JUST A MATTER OF LOCATION. >> THERE YOU GO. >> AND AS WE’VE LEARNED WITH GROUND CONTROL ROBOTICS, LOCATION CAN BE WHERE YOU WANT IT TO BE. >> EXACTLY. WELL, I MEAN, ALL THIS STUFF THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IS GOING ON IN SPACE, SO AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THAT COORDINATION. AND IT’S A TEAM EFFORT, TOO. IT’S NOT JUST ONE GUY ON THE GROUND DOING THE WORK. I MEAN, YOU’RE WORKING WITH A DECENT TEAM. >> RIGHT. >> WHEN YOU’RE DOING THESE MANEUVERS. SO THAT’S FANTASTIC. BUT, YOU KIND OF MENTIONED-- SO GOING BACK TO CANADARM2, YOU MENTIONED IT’S BEEN UP THERE SINCE YOU SAID 2001? >> YUP. >> AND IT’S 16 YEARS OF OPERATION, WHICH IS AWESOME. >> PART OF THE SPACEWALK STAT ARE-- THAT WE’RE DOING HERE IN OCTOBER ARE FOR MAINTENANCE, RIGHT? SO IT NEEDS REGULAR MAINTENANCE. SO WHAT’S SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE’RE DOING OVER THESE SPACEWALKS? >> WELL, EVEN THE MAINTENANCE SYSTEM ITSELF NEEDS TO BE MAINTAINED. >> THERE YOU GO. >> SO HERE WE ARE, AND THAT’S WHERE WE’RE GOING TO BE THIS THURSDAY. >> OKAY. >> THE LATCHING END EFFECTORS, THE LEEs ON CANADARM2 HAVE DONE ALL THIS HEAVY WORK OVER ALL THESE YEARS. AND WHAT WE HAD STARTED TO SEE A FEW YEARS AGO, MAYBE THREE YEARS AGO, IS WE HAD STARTED TO PERCEIVE SOME DEGRADATION IN THE LEE MECHANISMS AND WE WERE ABLE TO MONITOR THAT. WE SEE WITH SOME PRECISION THE CURRENTS AND THE RATES ON THE MOTORS. >> HMM. >> AND WE COULD SEE FROM THE TELEMETRY DATA DOWN FROM THE ARM THAT SOME OF THE MECHANISMS WERE SOMETIMES A LITTLE BIT STICKY. >> OH. >> AND WE TALKED-- STUDIED THAT A LOT. >> YEAH. >> TRENDED THE DATA AND IN 2015 THAT ANALYSIS LEAD US TO HAVE SPACEWALKING ASTRONAUTS GO OUT AND LUBRICATE THESE MECHANISMS IN THE CANADARM2 END EFFECTORS. >> OH. >> SO THE GUYS WENT OUT IN SPACESUITS AND THEY HAD-- THEY TOOK A WET LUBRICANT. IT’S SORT OF THIS GRAY GOO. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THEY WERE ABLE TO PUT THAT INTO THE MECHANISMS THAT WERE EXPOSED ON THE LATCHING END EFFECTOR TO MITIGATE THAT STICKINESS THAT WE HAD BEEN STARTING TO SEE. >> OKAY. >> AND THAT DID INDEED IMPROVE THINGS. WE SAW SOME IMPROVEMENT RIGHT AFTER THAT IN BOTH CASES. >> YEAH. >> BUT, IN THE CASE OF LEE-A, WE-- THERE’S TWO ENDS OF THE ARM. WE SIMPLY CALL IT A AND B. >> OKAY. >> AND IN THE CASE OF LEE-A, WHILE THERE WAS SOME IMPROVEMENT IT STILL WAS KIND OF GOING DOWNHILL AND WE COULD SEE THAT. >> OH, OKAY. >> AND WHAT WE SAW IN AUGUST-- I THINK IT WAS AUGUST 22nd, WE WERE GOING TO WALK THE ARM OFF TO GO-- I ACTUALLY FORGET WHAT WE WERE GOING TO GO DO. WE WERE GOING TO WALK OFF NODE 2 ONTO OUR MOBILE BASE SYSTEM. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THE LATCHES ON THE LEE-A ACTUALLY STALLED DURING THE COURSE OF THE GRAPPLE. >> OH. >> AND THAT’S QUITE UNUSUAL. >> OKAY. >> SO THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION THAT EVENING ON CONSOLE AND REAL TIME AND THEY RELEASED IT BACK OFF. WE TALKED ABOUT IT SOME MORE AND DECIDED, “YOU KNOW WHAT? WE’RE GOING TO DEFER THIS TASK, WE’RE GOING TO STAY HERE ON NODE 2 BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO BE.” AT THAT POINT I THINK IT WAS JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AWAY, WE WERE GOING TO UNBERTH AND RELEASE SPACEX DRAGON 12. >> OKAY. >> WHICH WAS ONBOARD THE SPACE STATION AT THAT TIME. >> YEAH. >> AND HANDLING THE DRAGON VEHICLES-- WE ACTUALLY DON’T USE THOSE LATCHES. WE JUST USE THOSE SNARE CABLES. >> OKAY. >> WHICH IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE SHUTTLE ARM USED TO WORK. SO WE DECIDED TO STAY THERE. WE REALLY WANTED TO PROTECT THAT SCHEDULE. >> RIGHT. GET IT OUT IN TIME. >> SO THE VISITING VEHICLES CAN ARRIVE AND DEPART ON SCHEDULE. >> MM-HMM. >> DID THAT, RELEASED THE DRAGON. THAT WENT PERFECTLY WELL. AND SINCE THEN-- SINCE WE HAD BEEN ALREADY TALKING ABOUT END EFFECTOR MAINTENANCE WE WERE ALREADY WORKING WITH THE SPACE WORK EXPERTS HERE AT JSC TO START PLANNING AN END EFFECTOR REPLACEMENT. SO THAT WORK WAS ALREADY GOING ON. >> OKAY. >> SO WHEN WE HAD THIS LATCH STALL WITH LEE-A, WE SORT OF ADJUSTED OUR PLANS, SAID, “OKAY, WE’RE GOING TO GO DO LEE-A. WE’RE GOING TO DO IT RIGHT AWAY SO WE CAN GET CANADARM2 BACK UP TO FULL OPERATING POTENTIAL SO WE CAN GO DO EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED TO DO.” >> ALL RIGHT. >> SO THAT GOT SCHEDULED IN FOR THIS THURSDAY. >> ALL RIGHT. SO LEE-A-- IS IT BEING-- IS IT A SWAP? ARE YOU REPLACING IT FOR A NEW LATCHING END EFFECTOR? >> THERE IS ALSO PART OF OUR SYSTEM-- WE HAVE CANADARM2, WE HAVE DEXTRE, WE ALSO HAVE WHAT WE CALL THE MOBILE BASE SYSTEM. >> OKAY. >> AND THIS IS A STRUCTURE THAT RIDES UP AND DOWN THE SPACE STATION TRUSS ON A LITTLE TROLLEY CALLED THE MOBILE TRANSPORTER. >> OKAY. >> SO THAT MOBILE BASE HAS FOUR OPERATING BASES FOR THE AMR, SO THE ARM CAN WALK ONTO IT AND GO RIGHT DOWN THE TRUSS. >> COOL. >> BUT ALSO, ON THE MOBILE BASE THERE IS ANOTHER LATCHING END EFFECTOR AND IT'S IN FACT AN IDENTICAL UNIT TO THE ONE THAT’S ON BOTH ENDS OF CANADARM2. WE USE THAT FOR TEMPORARILY STOWING LARGE ITEMS THAT WE’RE MOVING AROUND OUTSIDE. >> HMM. >> SO IF WE NEED TO DO MAINTENANCE OF SOMETHING BIG-- >> OKAY. >> --THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF TIMES WHEN THE-- WHEN A PUMP PACKAGE FAILED THAT WAS PART OF THE THERMAL CONTROL SYSTEM. AND THE PUMPS ARE BIG AND THEY NEEDED TO BE TEMPORARILY STOWED BEFORE THEY COULD BE DEORBITED. >> YEAH. >> AND WE WOULD STORE THOSE ON THAT END EFFECTOR ON THE MOBILE BASE. SO THAT’S A LEE. ALTHOUGH, IT’S BEEN IN SPACE SINCE 2002, 15 YEARS. >> WOW. >> IT’S ACTUALLY ONLY BEEN USED 15 TIMES. SO WHEN WE USE IT, IT’S VERY IMPORTANT. >> YEAH. >> BUT WE ACTUALLY ONLY USE IT RELATIVELY RARELY. >> YEAH. >> SO ON AVERAGE, ONCE A YEAR. SO WHAT WE’VE GOT, LOOKING AT THAT END EFFECTOR ON THE MOBILE BASE, WE’VE GOT THE IDEAL SPACE LATCHING END EFFECTOR. NOT ONLY DO WE KNOW THAT IT MADE IT UP HILL SAFELY AND IT’S IN SPACE, WE’VE ALSO BEEN CHECKING IT OUT ONCE A YEAR. >> SO IT IS UP TO SPEED. YOU’RE LIKE, “EH, WHY DON’T WE JUST USE THIS ONE.” >> SO WE’RE GOING TO USE THAT. SO WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DO THIS THURSDAY IS WE’RE GOING TO MOVE THE TIP OF THE ARM WE LEE-A RIGHT NEXT TO WHERE THAT MOBILE BASE END EFFECTOR IS. >> RIGHT. >> AND THE EVA CREW ARE GOING TO SWAP THE TWO. >> THERE YOU GO. OKAY, SO THAT’S A BIG PART OF THE FIRST SPACEWALK. >> RIGHT. AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT RESTORES CANADARM2 TO MUCH IMPROVED OPERATING POTENTIAL. WE’VE GOT A LEE-A THAT WILL THEN HAVE WORKING LATCHES, WE CAN GO DO-- WE’VE GOT ORBITAL ATK-8 COMING RIGHT UP. >> YES. >> I THINK IT’S 0A-8. >> OA-8, THAT’S RIGHT. >> AND WE ACTUALLY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE WORKING LATCHES FOR THAT BECAUSE THE CYGNUS VEHICLES LIKE POWER RIGHT AFTER THEY’VE BEEN CAPTURED. AND TO GIVE THEM POWER THE LATCHES HAVE TO WORK. >> OKAY. >> SO WE ARE EAGER TO GO RESTORE THAT CAPABILITY. WE’LL THEN HAVE THIS SOMEWHAT DEGRADED END EFFECTOR ON THE MOBILE BASE AND A COUPLE MORE SPACEWALKS THIS MONTH, BUT THEN AT LEAST ONE MORE IN JANUARY. AND WE’RE GOING TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF A SHELL GAME. WE’RE GOING TO ALSO SWAP OUT LEE-B OFF CANADARM2, BECAUSE THAT ALSO-- IT’S NOT AS DEGRADED AS LEE-A, BUT THERE’S ALSO WE’D LIKE TO MOVE IT AROUND. >> RIGHT. >> WE WANT TO LEAVE LEE-B ON THE MOBILE BASE AS THAT END EFFECTOR FOR STOWING THINGS. >> OKAY. >> IT IS A LITTLE BIT DEGRADED, BUT GOOD ENOUGH THAT WE THINK IT’LL PROBABLY LAST THE REST OF THE PROGRAM. IF WE ONLY USE IT ONCE PER YEAR, WHICH HAS BEEN OUR AVERAGE. >> YEAH. >> IT’LL LAST FOR YEARS. IT’S LIKE DOG YEARS. IT’LL LAST A LONG TIME. AND LEE-A WE WILL ACTUALLY TAKE OFF AND BRING INSIDE THE SPACE STATION. >> HUH. >> AND THE TWO EVA-- SOMETIME IN JANUARY, WE’LL SEE THE TWO SPACEWALKING CREW MEMBERS BRING THIS BIG OIL BARREL OF A PACK-- AN END EFFECTOR PACKAGE INTO THE AIRLOCK WITH THEM. AND WE WILL ACTUALLY BRING IT DOWN TO EARTH INSIDE A DRAGON VEHICLE. >> OH, IT CAN FIT WHERE? IN THE TRUNK OF IN THE PRESSURIZED? >> WELL, REMEMBER, THE TRUNK BURNS UP. IT NEEDS TO COME DOWN ON THE INSIDE OR IT DOESN’T REALLY COME HOME. >> OH, SO IT’S GOING TO BE COMING IN THE PRESSURIZED PART? >> RIGHT. >> OKAY, VERY COOL. >> AND WE’RE GOING TO HAVE THAT. IT’S A BIG EXPENSIVE PACKAGE. WE REALLY DON’T WANT TO BURN IT UP. SO WE’RE GOING TO GO TO ALL THAT TROUBLE TO BRING IT DOWN, SEND IT BACK TO OUR PRIME CONTRACTOR IN BRAMPTON, ONTARIO, IS MacDONALD DETTWEILER. >> OKAY. >> THEY ARE THE EXPERTS AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE THE TASK OF REFURBISHING THIS LATCHING END EFFECTOR THAT’S BEEN IN SPACE FOR 16 YEARS. AND WHAT A WITNESS TO THE SPACE ENVIRONMENT AND TO SPACE HISTORY THIS THING HAS BEEN, RIGHT? >> YEAH. >> IT’S BEEN THERE FOR MOST OF SPACE STATION ASSEMBLY. >> RIGHT. >> AND ALL OF THIS MAINTENANCE, EXPOSED TO THE ENVIRONMENT, ALL THE ATOMIC OXYGEN, MICROMETEORITES, ALL THE PROPELLANT FROM ALL THE JETS, ALL THE LOADS THAT IT’S EXPERIENCED. AND THEY’RE GOING TO SORT OF PEEL IT BACK, REFURBISH IT, AND THEN RETURN IT TO FLIGHT STATUS. SO WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER END EFFECTOR SPARE READY WHEN WE NEED IT. >> WOW. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU GOT IT PLANNED OUT? SO YOU’VE GOT NEW END EFFECTORS COMING ON AND YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE REFURBISHED END EFFECTORS THERE. SO THAT’S PRETTY COOL. HOW MANY END EFFECTORS TOTAL THEN ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THROUGH THE END OF THE LIFE OF THE STATION? THAT WAS GOING TO BE-- >> WELL, THERE ARE TWO ON CANADARM2, AND WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SWAPPING OUT BOTH OF THOSE IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. >> RIGHT, RIGHT. >> THERE’S ONE ON DEXTRE, BECAUSE WHEN WE PUT DEXTRE DOWN THERE’S AN END EFFECTOR ON THE BOTTOM. >> OKAY. >> THERE’S THIS ONE ON THE MOBILE BASE I’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. >> RIGHT. >> THERE IS A-- WE’RE USING THAT ONE ON THE MOBILE BASE AS A SPARE. >> UH-HUH. >> THERE IS ANOTHER ACTUAL SPARE STORED ON THE SPACE STATION TRUSS OUTSIDE SORT OF IN A BOX SAFE, WAITING TO BE USED. AND THAT ONE WILL GO ONTO CANADARM2 IN JANUARY. >> YUP, YUP. >> AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE ANOTHER ONE ON THE GROUND RIGHT NOW THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO LAUNCH IN A FEW MONTHS TIME. >> HMM. >> WE CALL THAT OUR LAUNCH ON NEED END EFFECTORS, SO YOU NEED TO HAVE ENOUGH OF THESE THINGS SO THAT THEY CAN FAIL AND YOU HAVE TIME TO REPLACE THEM BEFORE YOU NEED ANOTHER ONE. >> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE A AND B WAS IT? ARE THE TWO THAT ARE ON THE ARM RIGHT NOW? >> RIGHT. >> SOUNDS LIKE THEY’VE BEEN DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB SO FAR. >> SIXTEEN YEARS, GIVEN THE COMPLEXITY AND, I MEAN, THE HARSH ENVIRONMENT, AND ALL THEY’VE ACCOMPLISHED, IT’S ACTUALLY AMAZING THAT THEY HAVE LASTED THIS LONG. >> YEAH. >> I WAS ON THE PROGRAM EARLY ON LOOKING AT THOSE DESIGNS, WE ARE PRETTY PLEASED THAT THESE THINGS HAVE LASTED SO LONG. WE EXPECTED MAYBE WE’D HAVE TO DO MAINTENANCE LIKE THIS EARLIER THAN WE HAVE. SO NO COMPLAINTS. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU GOT A LOT OF PLAN B, C, D, ALL THE WAY DOWN TOO. >> THAT’S THE WAY WE ROLL HERE IN HUMAN SPACEFLIGHT. >> HEY, THAT’S PERFECT, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU’RE SAYING, “OH, WE NEED-- THIS ONE’S NOT WORKING AS WELL AS IT COULD. OH, WE GOT A SPARE OVER HERE, AND A SPARE OVER HERE, SPARE OVER HERE. WE’LL TAKE THIS ONE OVER HERE.” SO THAT’S NOT BAD. A WHILE AGO--NOT A WHILE-- JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO YOU TALKED ABOUT IT CAN MOVE ON THIS MOBILITY UNIT, RIGHT? IT CAN WALK. THAT IS KIND OF A UNIQUE THING, RIGHT? SO WHEN YOU’RE THINKING ABOUT A ROBOTIC ARM, IT’S NOT JUST AN ARM THAT’S ON THE SIDE OF THE STATION AND CAN GRAB THINGS. THIS THING CAN MOVE TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATION. HOW DOES THAT WORK? >> WELL, THE ARM CAN WALK END OVER END. THAT’S WHY WE HAVE AN END EFFECTOR AT EACH END OF THE ARM. >> UH-HUH. >> ONE’S THE BASE. THE TIP OF THE ARM, JUST LIKE THE BASE, CAN REACH ANOTHER OPERATING BASE AND GRAPPLE IT, ENGAGE, CONNECT ELECTRICALLY. >> YEAH. >> POWER DOWN, POWER UP FROM THE NEW BASE, AND THEN LET GO AND WALK END OVER END. >> WOW. >> AND THE MOBILE BASE SYSTEM ON THE MOBILE TRANSPORTER AS I DESCRIBED HAS THESE BASE PLUGS ON IT. SO THE ARM CAN WALK ONTO THERE RIGHT OUT PORT OR STARBOARD TO THE EXTREME END OF THE TRUSS EVEN, DO WORK OUT THERE. >> YEAH, WHEREVER YOU NEED IT. >> WHEREVER IT NEEDS TO BE, AND THAT’S ANOTHER REALLY COOL ENHANCEMENT OVER THE SHUTTLE ARM SYSTEM. WHEN YOU LOOKED OUT THE AFT-- THE PAYLOAD BAY WINDOWS ON THE SHUTTLE, THE ARM WAS ALWAYS THERE. THE SHOULDER WAS ALWAYS EXACTLY IN THE SAME PLACE ON THE PORT SIDE OF THE VEHICLE. AND THIS IS A NEW SYSTEM, IT’S A NEW ENVIRONMENT. >> YEAH. >> AND SPACE STATION IS A BIG COMPLEX STRUCTURE. THERE’S ALL SORTS OF PLACES YOU MIGHT NEED TO BE. AND IN FACT, RELATIVELY RECENTLY, WE EVEN INSTALLED A BASE POINT ON ONE OF THE RUSSIAN MODULES, WHAT WE CALL THE FGB. SO THE FORWARD MOST PART OF THE RUSSIAN SEGMENT NOW HAS A POWER AND DATA GRAPPLE FIXTURE ON IT. AND THE ARM CAN WALK ON THERE TO REACH EVEN FURTHER BACK IF IT NEEDS TO AND WE’VE DONE SOME SURVEYS FROM THERE. >> OH, THERE YOU GO. SO POWER AND DATA GRAPPLE FIXTURE, THAT’S-- WHEN IT’S WALKING IT NEEDS TO GRAB ONTO ONE OF THOSE IN ORDER TO GET POWER AND DATA SO YOU CAN SEND THE COMMANDS? >> TO BE A BASE POINT, THAT’S RIGHT. >> YEAH. >> IT NEEDS ELECTRICAL POWER. THE ARM IS ALL ELECTRIC. >> UH-HUH. >> THEY ARE DC ELECTRIC MOTORS-- >> YEAH. >> --ON EACH OF THE JOINTS AND EACH OF THE MECHANISMS ON THE END EFFECTOR. AND OF COURSE DATA, IT SEEMS LIKE WE DON’T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT A COMPUTER THESE DAYS. THE ARM HAS ONBOARD COMPUTERS THAT CONTROL EACH JOINT AND EACH JOINT HAS A COMPUTER THAT CONTROLS THE MOTOR MODULE. >> YUP, BECAUSE IF YOU SEND IT A COMMAND YOU WANT IT TO DO WHAT YOU’RE ASKING TI TO DO. >> RIGHT. AND ALSO, THOSE COMPUTERS GATHER THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE INSIGHT INTO WHAT THE ARM IS DOING AND HOW THE ARM IS DOING. >> YEAH, THERE YOU GO. OH, WELL, THAT’S WHERE YOU’RE GETTING THAT DATA WHERE YOU CAN FIND OUT, “OH, THIS IS DEGRADING A LITTLE BIT AND WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIX IT.” >> YEAH, “THAT MOTOR’S DRAWING A LITTLE BIT MORE CURRENT THAN WE THOUGHT. LET’S GO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.” >> MM-HMM. ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, SO NOW THE CANADARM HAS BEEN UP THERE FOR 16 YEARS, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT ROBOTIC ARMS THAT HAVE BEEN THOUGHT ABOUT SINCE THE ‘70s, AND THEN YOU STARTED FLYING IN THE ‘80s. THIS HAS A LONG HISTORY OF ROBOTIC ARMS. HAS ANY OF THE TECHNOLOGY BEEN BROUGHT DOWN TO EARTH IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM? >> IT HAS. >> OKAY. >> AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS AND THE ONES I CAN THINK OF RIGHT HERE ARE MOSTLY MEDICAL. >> HMM. >> IT’S POSSIBLE TO DO VERY, VERY FINE, EVEN MICROSCOPIC SURGERY WITH VERSIONS OF ROBOTIC ARMS. >> OH. >> AND THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THAT’S BASED ON, AS IT TURNS OUT, IS DIRECTLY DERIVED FROM THE WORK THAT WE’VE DONE ON SPACE STATION WITH CANADARM2. >> HOW ABOUT THAT. >> SO THERE’S A SYSTEM IN THAT WAS DESIGNED IN CANADA CALLED NEUROARM, WHICH HAS DONE BRAIN SURGERY AND THERE’S A GROWING LIST OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HELPED BY THAT. THERE’S A SMALLER PEDIATRIC VERSION CALLED KIDSARM. >> OH, WOW. >> AND THERE IS-- LET ME THINK, THERE IS A SYSTEM CALLED IMAGE GUIDED AUTONOMOUS ROBOT, IGAR, WHICH GOT SOME RECOGNITION. AND THAT’S-- IT’S ABLE TO DO BREAST CANCER SURGERIES FOR VERY SMALL PROCEDURES. >> WOW. >>SO THIS TECHNOLOGY IS PROLIFERATING. >> YEAH. I MEAN, SO YOU PRETTY MUCH JUST TAKE THE CANADARM2, WHICH IS HOW LONG DOES IT STRETCH? FIFTEEN METERS IS IT? OR IS IT-- >> NO, WAS IT 17 OR 18 METERS, I THINK. >> SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN? OH, OKAY. I’M THINKING 15, BUT OKAY. YEAH, 17 OR 18 METERS, YOU BRING THAT DOWN TO A SMALLER SCALE IN A WAY, RIGHT? >> WELL, AND IT'S NOT EVEN JUST THE PHYSICALITY OF IT. >> OKAY. >> IT IS THE TECHNOLOGY OF CONTROLLING COORDINATED MOTION IN VERY REFINED WAYS. >> RIGHT. RIGHT. I MEAN, VERY MICROSCOPIC MOVEMENTS LIKE YOU WERE SAYING. >> RIGHT. >> AND IS THAT-- SO YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE THIS RESPONSIVE TECHNOLOGY WHERE IF YOU’RE MOVING IT CAN FEEL THE TURN AND STUFF LIKE THAT. IS THAT PART OF IT TOO? >> I THINK A BIG PART OF IT IS THE ABILITY TO OPERATE THE ROBOT IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU CAN GUIDE IT VISUALLY. >> OKAY. >> WORKING INSIDE-- LIKE, WORKING CT SCAN ENVIRONMENTS WHERE YOU HAVE ALL OF THE SENSORS SO YOU CAN REALLY SEE WHAT’S GOING ON INSIDE SOMEONE’S BODY AND THERE’S THE ROBOT ACTUALLY OPERATING RIGHT THERE WHILE THE SCAN’S GOING ON. >> AH, OKAY. >> BUT ALSO, AT A MICROSCOPIC LEVEL. BECAUSE WE HUMANS-- IF YOU REDUCE EVERYTHING TO A SMALL ENOUGH SCALE IT’S ACTUALLY DIFFICULT TO CONTROL THINGS THAT PRECISELY. BUT THE ROBOT, IF YOU GEAR EVERYTHING DOWN THE ROBOT CAN REALLY HELP YOU WITH THAT. >> OH, YEAH. >> SO IF-- YOUR HANDS MAY NOT TREMBLE, BUT WHEN YOU’RE AT THE MICRON LEVEL YOUR HAND’S REALLY TREMBLING AND YOU’RE NOT EVEN AWARE OF IT. >> YEAH. >> BUT THAT’S THE LEVEL OF CONTROL THAT THEY’RE ABLE TO PROVIDE WITH THESE MICROSCOPIC BRAIN SURGERY ROBOTS. >> HOW ABOUT THAT. >> AND THAT’S REALLY HELPING PEOPLE, AND THAT’S EXCITING. >> THAT’S VERY EXCITING. I’M THINKING ABOUT-- THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND IS THREADING A NEEDLE WITH YOUR HAND, HOW DIFFICULT THAT IS JUST OUT OF SCALE. YOU GET TO THAT SMALL AND YOU START SHAKING AND YOU CAN’T SEE. >> RIGHT. >> BUT IF YOU GET THE INSTRUMENTS YOU CAN DO IT. >> AND YOU’RE TALKING EVEN SMALLER THAN THAT. >> WOW. OH, YEAH, YOU’RE RIGHT, BECAUSE MICROSCOPIC. >> RIGHT. >> SO WE ONLY HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT SO I’LL KIND OF-- WE’LL LEAVE OFF WITH THIS: WHAT’S THE FUTURE OF ROBOTIC ARMS? IS THERE GOING TO BE A CANADARM3? OR IS THERE THINGS YOU’RE THINKING ABOUT FOR MISSIONS BEYOND INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION? >> WELL, WE ARE THINKING ABOUT CANADARM3. >> OKAY. >> AND WHAT WE DO IN THESE PROGRAMS, CERTAINLY WHAT WE DID WITH CANADARM2, IS WE LOOKED AT OUR EXPERIENCE ON THE SHUTTLE. >> MM-HMM. >> AND WE TOOK THAT OPERATING PARADIGM AND SAID, “OKAY, WHAT DID WE LEARN? WHAT MORE CAN WE DO?” AND SURE ENOUGH, IF YOU LOOK AT CANADARM2 IT’S MORE COMPLEX, BUT IT’S A MUCH MORE CAPABLE SYSTEM. WE’RE LOOKING AT WHAT A CANADARM3 COULD BE. AND ONE THING THAT WE ARE HEARING A LOT ABOUT IN OUR MODERN WORLD IS AUTONOMY. >> OH. >> WE HEAR A LOT THESE DAYS ABOUT SELF-DRIVING CARS. >> YUP. >> BECAUSE THE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY NOW EXISTS WHERE THE COMPUTERS CAN PROCESS, AND MAKE SOME OF THOSE DECISIONS, AND CAN DO THE TAKE ME FROM POINT A TO POINT B. >> RIGHT. >> WHEREAS JUST EVEN-- EVEN A FEW YEARS AGO, THAT WASN’T EVEN CONCEIVABLE. >> MM-HMM. >> WE ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT WHAT IT WOULD TAKE FOR TO START INTRODUCING MORE AUTONOMY INTO THESE SORT OF ROBOTS. >> THAT IS EXCITING. >> RIGHT. AND AGAIN, AND WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT-- I DON’T NEED TO NAME THE MOVIES, BUT I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT ROBOTS GOING CRAZY AND ACTING INDEPENDENTLY. >> SURE. >> IT’S ABOUT-- YOU CAN CALCULATE THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO GET FROM THIS ARM POSITION TO THIS ARM POSITION, THEN YOU CAN GRASP THAT GRAPPLE FIXTURE, THEN YOU CAN CHANGE BASE. >> MM-HMM. >> AND THE ABILITY, PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, IS THERE TO GO DO THAT AND WE’RE STARTING TO LOOK AT HOW WE MIGHT INTRODUCE THAT INTO A SPACE ENVIRONMENT. >> HOW ABOUT THAT. THAT’S PRETTY EXCITING-- AUTOMATIC. >> AND AGAIN, THAT’S AN ENHANCEMENT IN TERMS OF SAVING TIME. WE’RE ALREADY SAVING TIME FOR THE ASTRONAUTS BECAUSE THE GROUND IS DOING IT. BUT NOW, WE CAN ACTUALLY SAVE TIME SO THAT THE GROUND CONTROLLERS DON’T HAVE TO BE THERE FOR EVERY SINGLE STEP, EVERY SINGLE COMMAND. >> MM-HMM. >> AND INDEED, THESE DAYS, IF WE LOSE COMM WITH THE SPACE STATION, IF THERE’S WHAT WE CALL AN LOS, A LOS OF SIGNAL, PERIOD-- >> RIGHT. >> --WE HAVE TO SIT AND WAIT. HOWEVER, WHAT IF YOU GET YOUR COMMAND IN BEFORE YOU LOSE COMM AND THE ROBOT CAN BE THERE WAITING FOR YOU-- AT THE END OF ITS MANEUVER WAITING FOR YOU WHEN YOU COME BACK IN. >> BECAUSE LOSS OF SIGNALS CAN BE-- CAN GET UPWARDS OF TENS OF MINUTES. SO YOU COME BACK AND IT’S ALREADY PART OF THE WAY THROUGH THE JOB. THAT’S NOT BAD. >> IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT’S GOING ON, BUT YEAH. AND AS YOU START TO GO FURTHER AFIELD, IF YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT-- WELL, EVEN THE MOON, BUT CERTAINLY MARS WHERE THE LATENCIES, THE RADIO DELAYS ARE SUCH THAT SENDING A COMMAND AND THEN WAITING TO SEE THAT IT COMPLETED CORRECTLY BEFORE YOU SEND THE NEXT ONE. >> YES. >> IF THE ROUNDTRIP FOR THAT IS 40 MINUTES, THEN THAT’S REALLY GOING TO SLOW EVERYTHING DOWN. BUT, IF YOU CAN TELL YOUR ROBOT, “GO MOVE FROM HERE TO THERE AND CHECK BACK WITH ME WHEN YOU’RE DONE.” THAT’S JUST GOING TO INTRODUCE A CAPABILITY-- IT’S NOT JUST MAKING IT MORE EFFICIENT, IT GIVES YOU A CAPABILITY THAT YOU DIDN’T HAVE BEFORE. >> HOW ABOUT THAT. THAT’S REALLY EXCITING. CAN’T WAIT. IS THERE A CHANCE THAT CANADARM3 IS GOING TO BE ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION SORT OF THING? >> NO, I THINK-- WE ARE GOING TO USE THE MSS, THE MOBILE SERVICING SYSTEM, AND CANADARM2 AS SORT OF A TEST BED FOR THAT TECHNOLOGY. >> OH, OKAY. >> WE HAVE THIS AMAZING ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE HAVE A MONITORED ENVIRONMENT, WE HAVE THINGS THAT NEED DOING. >> YEAH. >> WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN IT BECAUSE THERE’S ASTRONAUTS. AND ALSO, SOMETIMES WE DO ROBOT SELF MAINTENANCE. WE HAVE REPLACED A FEW OF OUR OWN CAMERAS WITH THE ROBOT, AND THAT’S REALLY COOL. >> YEAH. >> BUT WE HAVE THIS ENVIRONMENT THAT IS REALLY IDEAL TO DEVELOP SOME OF THAT NEXT GENERATION EXPLORATION TECHNOLOGY AND WE’RE STARTING TO LOOK AT THAT. >> WOW. VERY EXCITING. ALL RIGHT, WELL, TIM, THANKS FOR COMING ON THE SHOW TODAY. IT SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY DECENT KIND OF OVERVIEW OF ROBOTIC ARMS HISTORY, AND CAPABILITY, FUTURE. THAT’S AWESOME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> IT’S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE. THERE’S A LOT GOING ON. >> ABSOLUTELY. WELL, SO FOR THE LISTENERS, IF YOU STICK TOWARDS THE END OF PODCAST WE’LL TALK ABOUT-- TIM AND I KIND OF MENTIONED THE SPACEWALKS THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING, OR THAT ARE GOING TO HAPPEN HERE IN OCTOBER, SO YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AND WHERE TO GO FOR QUESTIONS AND IDEAS. SO THANKS AGAIN, TIM. >> THANK YOU. [ MUSIC ] >> HOUSTON, GO AHEAD. >> I’M ON THE SPACE SHUTTLE. >> ROGER, ZERO-G AND I FEEL FINE. >> SHUTTLE HAS CLEARED THE TOWER. >> WE CAME IN PEACE FOR ALL MANKIND. >> IT’S ACTUALLY A HUGE HONOR TO BREAK THE RECORD LIKE THIS. >> NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE EASY, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE HARD. >> HOUSTON, WELCOME TO SPACE. >> HEY, THANKS FOR STICKING AROUND. SO TODAY, WE TALKED WITH MR. TIM BRAITHWAITE ABOUT ROBOTIC ARMS IN SPACE AND WE REALLY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC BECAUSE WE HAVE THREE SPACEWALKS IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER AND ALL OF THEM HAVE TO DO WITH IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM WITH DEALING WITH THE CANADARM2 ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION. TWO OF THEM RIGHT NOW HAVE ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED. THERE WAS ONE ON OCTOBER 5th AND ANOTHER ONE ON OCTOBER 10th. THE ONE ON OCTOBER 5th WAS THE ONE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, ME AND TIM, IN THIS EPISODE WHERE THEY REPLACED A LATCHING END EFFECTOR. AND THE THE LAST ONE, THEY WERE ACTUALLY USING THE LUBE THAT HE ALSO TALKED ABOUT TO GREASE UP THE INSIDE OF THE LATCH. WELL, THEY HAVE ONE MORE COMING UP AND IT’S GOING TO BE I GUESS AT THE TIME OF THIS RELEASE WILL BE NEXT WEEK ON OCTOBER 18th. SO YOU CAN TUNE IN AND KIND OF WATCH WHAT A SPACEWALK IS ALL ABOUT, YOU CAN GO ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION FACEBOOK ACCOUNT. WE’LL BE DOING A FACEBOOK LIVE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE THING, BUT YOU CAN ALSO GO TO NASA TV OR WHEREVER YOU GET NASA TV. I THINK IT’S ON USTREAM AS WELL. IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG, JUST KIND OF GET THE HIGHLIGHTS OF EVERYTHING, WE DO EVERYTHING ON SOCIAL MEDIA, SO INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION FACEBOOK ACCOUNT IS A GREAT PLACE TO GET THAT INFORMATION. OTHERWISE, YOU CAN GO TO TWITTER, WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE LITTLE SNIPPETS. YOU KNOW TWITTER. WHAT AM I TELLING YOU ABOUT TWITTER FOR? AND INSTAGRAM @ISS. SO YOU CAN USE THE HASHTAG #ASKNASA ON YOUR FAVORITE TO SUBMIT AN IDEA FOR THE PODCAST, OR MAYBE DURING THE SPACEWALK COVERAGE YOU CAN ASK A QUESTION AND WE’LL TRY TO GET TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE. I KNOW I’LL BE ONE OF THE COMMENTATORS FOR THE SPACEWALKS COMING UP. AND WE REALLY TRY TO ANSWER SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS DURING THE-- DURING COMMENTARY SO YOU KINDA OF UNDERSTAND WHAT’S GOING ON. SO PLEASE, ASK THOSE QUESTIONS AS IT’S GOING ON. OTHERWISE, YOU CAN SUBMIT QUESTIONS FOR THE PODCAST. JUST PUT IN-- MAKE SURE IT’S MENTIONED FOR “HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PODCAST” HWHAP. ACTUALLY, THAT’S HOW I GOT THAT QUESTION FROM JENNIFER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE EPISODE. I WAS-- I’M SEARCHING FOR THAT STUFF, SO DON’T THINK I’M NOT PAYING ATTENTION. SO THIS PODCAST WAS RECORDED ON OCTOBER 3rd, 2017. THANKS TO ALEX PERRYMAN-- WHO ALWAYS HELPS OUT WITH EVERY EPISODE-- JOHN STOLL, DAN HUOT, AND OF COURSE THE PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICERS, THE COMMUNICATORS AT THE CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY. THANKS AGAIN TO MR. TIM BRAITHWAITE FOR COMING ON THE SHOW. WE’LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

hwhap_Ep26_Can You Hear Me Now

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-01-05

Production Transcript for Ep26_Can You Hear Me Now.mp3 [00:00:00] >> Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 26, Can You Hear Me Now? I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host for the very first episode in 2018! Happy New Year! So on this podcast, this is where we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, flight controllers, all the coolest people! We bring them right here on the show to tell you all the coolest stuff about what you want to know, about what's going on here at NASA. So, today, we're talking about space communications and communication networks with Bill Foster. He's a ground controller in mission control Houston, and we had a great discussion about how space communication works, what it'll look like in the future, and why it's so important to make missions successful. So with no further delay, let's go lightspeed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Bill Foster. Enjoy! [00:00:45] [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] [00:01:09] >> Touch on this later if you want to, but one thing that I always wondered about, you know, the Apollo 13, the movie, you see them entering the blackout, and then there's this big tension because they're not talking after they're supposed to be out of the blackout. [00:01:22] >> This is after reentry, right? [00:01:24] >> Yep. Reentry, and everybody's worried and a minute goes back and, you know, the blackout is pretty predictable. You know when you're going to lose contact, you know when you should get it, so, there's no contact. Two minutes later or so, they make contact. [00:01:40] >> Yeah. But that's a tense two minutes! [00:01:42] >> So I went over -- I was at the space center Houston the other night when they premiered the mission control film. [00:01:49] >> That's right! [00:01:50] >> Which included that aspect of it, and afterwards, Krafton and Kranz and Lonny [phonetic] were all in front taking questions. Somebody asked them, why was the blackout longer than expected? And Kranz's answer was, we were so happy to hear them, we didn't really care. [Laughing] Then somebody finally answered the question. [00:02:12] >> Yeah. [00:02:13] >> For reentry over water, there was no ground station nearby, and they used what's called an ARIA, a-r-i-a aircraft. [00:02:23] >> Okay. [00:02:23] >> And what they said was, probably the, you know, the areas were always somewhat unreliable in a quarrying contact. They just may have been pointing -- looking the wrong way or they may have had an equipment issue onboard, but, you know, they came out of the blackout right when they should have, but it just took a couple of minutes for the aircraft to lock up on them. [00:02:45] >> Oh, wow! [00:02:46] >> So that was interesting. [00:02:47] >> Yeah! Well, how about that? Did -- are we recording? Yeah! [Laughter] We got it! Awesome! Well, that's great! Okay, so for those, yeah, we are -- I have Bill Foster here with me. He is a ground controller in mission control, and he did -- he's ground control -- at the ground control console in the mission control center in Houston for the International Space Station. I got to ask him, to start off, how's Major Tom? [00:03:13] >> We're still looking for him. [00:03:14] >> Oh, okay. [00:03:14] >> And we had a big setback early last year, we think we may have lost all hope of finding him when David Bowie passed away. [00:03:22] >> [Laughing] Yeah. Oh, that's an oldie, but I had -- I mean, how often can you do that, right? [00:03:27] >> I bring that up frequently when I'm talking to people, and that's one of the first things, we're still looking for Major Tom. It's not quite as good as it used to be. [00:03:37] >> [Laughing] I don't know, I think it's pretty good. I was dying to say that for -- for this podcast. But, so today we're going to be talking about space communication, how that works. You know, when you think about mission control Houston, you know, the center of talking with people in space and other centers, really, how does that work? You know, that's -- that's really the main question, and the thing I really want to answer. So, first of all, if you had to describe a ground controller in one or two sentences, what does a ground controller do? [00:04:06] >> TDRSto toilets. [Laughter] Three simple words. [00:04:10] >> Yeah! TDRS to toilets, okay. [00:04:12] >> Ground control is responsible for making sure our communications with the space station and any other human spacecraft is maintained, and that's the [inaudible] part of it, tracking and data relay satellite. That's the geosynchronous communication satellites we use to -- to talk to spacecraft today. And the toilet reference is just we also are responsible for anything to do with the mission control center facility itself. [00:04:37] >> Oh, I see. [00:04:38] >> I have grabbed a mop and headed into the ladies room one time many years ago. [00:04:42] >> Really? [00:04:43] >> Yeah, so. [00:04:43] >> Wow, okay, so that's -- I like that! So your control of the satellites, the TDRS satellites, and we'll talk about those later, but those -- those are the satellites that are way out in space, right? 23-ish... [00:04:52] >> 22,300 miles up. [00:04:54] >> That's it. Yeah, okay, all the way out there, down to the toilets that are right next to you in mission control? Wow. [00:05:01] >> We had a, coincidentally, had a power hit that affected pretty much all of JSC today. [00:05:05] >> Yeah, we just had it here too! [00:05:07] >> Yeah, so that was a big thing in the control center this morning, you know? Fortunately, our -- our backup battery systems and our diesel generators out back all kicked in and there was virtually no disruption to operations in the control center. So the ISS mission, they lost air conditioning in their room for about half an hour, you know, that wasn't enough time for it to heat up appreciably, but, beyond that, there were no notable impact. Some of the simulations, like the one that I was on, and the ISS simulation, they were affected, because the simulator building does not have the backup power. So, yeah, that took about an hour, hour and a half hit to the simulations, but the MCC stayed up. [00:05:51] >> Alright, all part of your day-to-day jobs, right? Is maintaining the power. So you do the -- are you in charge of the backup power too? [00:05:58] >> We -- we have to be aware of it. The Center of Operations Director here at JSC provides that power to us. They -- they maintain and -- and operate all of the systems, the diesel generators, the -- the large banks of batteries that are always online, but if we have a power issue, like we did today, then the GC is the first person that the flight director goes to to find out what's happening, and we'd have to make sure that our backroom support personnel are working with the center ops personnel to understand what happened, and to take whatever steps are necessary to ensure it's no impact, or minimal impact, operations. [00:06:38] >> Nice. Okay, well, okay, so, another, you know, a big thing that we really want to talk about today is -- is your responsibility, as ground controller, is the communication networks that gets us, you know, you in mission control, and -- and everyone there, especially CAPCOM oht, talking with the folks in space. That's really the thing. So, how is that set up? How do you go from the headset down in mission control to, you know, whatever the, I forget what the device is called, but where the astronauts talk into? [00:07:05] >> Well, it's -- it's a complicated system, but, as you said... [00:07:09] >> It's a loaded question, I guess. [00:07:10] >> Everyone in the control center has a headset all, you know, our biggest tool is communications, whether it's looking at data coming down to us, being able to send commands up, talking to the crew, or talking to each other. So we have our voice system that we call, DVICE, Digital Voice Interface Communications Equipment, say that a bunch of times. [00:07:30] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, is it -- you pronounce it device or is it d-vice? You just do device? [00:07:35] >> I do device, but some people say, d-vice. [00:07:37] >> Okay. [00:07:37] >> But it's just, d-v-i-c-e. [00:07:39] >> Oh, okay, so, I boxed out the E, there it is. [00:07:42] >> Sort of stutter into it. So DVICE is a digital voice communication system. So when you put on your headset and you plug it into the console, the jacket that connects it to DVICE, and then you log into your DVICE, that's establishing a connection into a computer in another part of the building, and once you pull up a given voice conference, or we call them loops to talk on, when you talk, the DVICE system turns that into -- to bits, 1's and 0's, sends it over a fiber optic cable down to the computer system in the bottom. Sends it back out to anybody else that's listening on that loop, turns it back into audio. When CAPCOM talks on it, on the -- the space-to-ground loops, it goes down to DVICE, gets turned into audio, gets sent over to what we call air-to-ground voice equipment, or AGVE, that equipment takes it and modulates it, adds it to the command link that we have going up to the space station. [00:08:46] So it produces a combined 32 kilobit link that goes up to the station that has two voice channels, and, I'm sorry, 72 kilobit link, has two 32 kilobit voice channels and a 6 kilobit command channel in it. And onboard the station, the voice is pulled out, turned back into audio that the crew can hear, when they respond, the reverse process happens. It gets digitized, sent down on the link, sent over to AGVE, turned back into a voice signal, goes into DVICE where it's digitized again. Goes out on the fiber optic cables back up to the CAPCOM or anybody else that's listening to the space-to-ground and turned back into audible voice that you can hear. [00:09:30] >> Oh, wow. [00:09:30] >> So whether you're talking to the crew or I'm talking to someone at White Sands, New Mexico, that's the ground station for our TDRS satellites, or anywhere else in the country, or talking to our counterparts in Japan or Germany, our -- our Marshall Space Flight Center, that same process is happening, converting it into digital signals, sending it through land-based communications lines to other control centers where their voice system converts it back into something that's audible for the controllers on that end of the loop. [00:10:01] >> Wow! Okay, so, I'm imagining when it gets through the fiber optic cable to the part where it actually sends it to space, right, so you get -- you get to that, is that -- is that a dish? I'm imagining a dish. [00:10:12] >> At a certain point, it goes through a couple of dishes. [00:10:15] >> Oh, okay. [00:10:16] >> So -- so from the MCC, it goes out on just commercial T1 lines, basically, just communication lines. It goes to White Sands, New Mexico, it goes through a lot of processing equipment there, and then it goes into this large dish that's communicating with the TDRS satellite. So there -- there's a composite K-band signal, and K-band is a fairly large bandwidth signal that we send up to the -- the satellite. Now the TDRS uplink to the TDRS satellite is much larger because it combines not just ISS for mission control, but potentially other spacecraft users. [00:10:57] >> Hmm, so you share that -- those satellites? [00:10:59] >> Yeah, so that one dish going up to the satellite is going to a TDRS satellite that has two single access dishes, and each of those dishes can be pointing at a different spacecraft. It also has an array of what they call multiaccess dishes that could be going to up to six other additional satellites. So that uplink from the ground could be supporting up to 6 or 7, maybe even 8 different spacecraft. [00:11:26] >> Wow. [00:11:27] >> From the TDRS spacecraft, we always use, for -- for ISS or any human spacecraft, we use a single access dish. So we're the only customer on that particular dish on the TDRS satellite that's pointing at our spacecraft, ISS this case, and it's sending -- it takes that big KU output going up to it, and breaks out just mission control's communications, which contains the command and voice and video signals, because we're going to also send video or other information up to the space station. And sends it out on either S band or K band links to the spacecraft. [00:12:09] >> Wow. [00:12:10] >> So the S band link has just the commands and voice part of it. The K band link has two voice channels, typically does not have command data, although it could under certain circumstances, but it also has file uplinks, video uplinks, we can send video programming up to the crew. Now, the crew was there for six months at a time. [00:12:31] >> Right. [00:12:32] >> They get off work at the end of the day, they can't close the door, go get in their car and drive home. [00:12:36] >> Right. [00:12:37] >> But just like anybody else, it's nice to relax after work. So we have the ability to send up sports programming, news programming, depending on the crew, some of them just want to see video coming up from the control center, see the people that are supporting them. [00:12:52] >> Oh, cool! [00:12:52] >> So we had the ability to send programming up to them. They also had a lot of pre-recorded material onboard, DVDs, Blu-Rays, whatever, they can pick a lot of what they want ahead of time, to take up with them. [00:13:06] >> Very cool! So how -- I'm guessing this whole thing, right, of sending information on the S bands and K bands, all the way to the...is that instantaneous? All of that happening, like, as fast as I can snap my finger, or is it happening [inaudible]? [00:13:19] >> It's happening at the speed of light. [00:13:20] >> Oh, okay. [00:13:21] >> But consider light travels 186,000 miles per second, when you're going from here to White Sands, that's not that far compared to the speed of light, but now you go from White Sands 22,300 miles up into space, now you're getting a little bit of distance there. And then 22,300 miles, maybe 100 miles, back down to the orbiting spacecraft, but, of course, they're not necessarily directly under TDRS, so, you know, it could be a lot further than that. [00:13:51] >> Right. [00:13:52] >> So -- so just consider, it's about a 45,000 mile round trip to get there. Well, now you're talking about a significant fraction of the speed of light, up to a fourth, maybe even a little bit more than a fourth of that, so you are starting to talk about [pause] in the quarter to half a second delay, particularly if it's -- it's roundtrip, we talk to them, and they respond. Well, now you're going 90,000 miles roundtrip, plus the time it takes for the crew to hear what you're saying and respond to it. So, if you're talking to the crew from the ground, I've only done this once, and I've seen other people that don't do it often do the same thing, you talk. They don't respond in what your mind assumes as a normal response time. So you think they didn't hear you, and you start talking again, and about that time, their response is coming in. So it's -- it's real easy to talk over each other. So the -- the experience, CAPCOM, knows, say what you're going to say, wait, the response will be coming, and... [00:14:56] >> Oh, wow. [00:14:57] >> ...continue that way. [00:14:59] >> That's awesome! I didn't know. I mean, that -- I would have -- I would have thought it was instantaneous, but when you talk about, you know, the space station is 250 miles above the earth, that's not that far compared to 23-ish,000 miles for the -- for the satellites to go up and down. So, some recent news, is very soon, I forget how many days, well, at least by the time this comes out, it probably will have already happened, but at the time of this recording, April 13th, it hasn't happened yet, an ultra-high definition video.... [00:15:30] >> April 26th, I think. [00:15:31] >> April 26th, yeah. [00:15:32] >> We saw some words on that today, coming up, making sure our ground controllers that will be on console are ready to support that, to go ahead. [00:15:38] >> Yeah, so does that -- does that use the same network? [00:15:40] >> Yes. [00:15:41] >> Oh, and it can support ultra high definition? [00:15:43] >> Yeah, right -- right now, the -- the Space Station can support up to a 25-megabit uplink to the station using K band. So that's a pretty big pipe. But it can support up to 300 megabits downlink. [00:15:58] >> Oh! [00:15:58] >> You know, so that 4K ultra video, high-definition video, is going to come through that 300 megabit link down, that same link also supports 6 standard definition video channels down, to normal high-definition channels down, plus a lot of telemetry data, all the voice that comes down, so it -- you know, we're still not using all of it. [00:16:24] >> Yeah, wow! [00:16:25] >> However, the purpose of the Space Station is science, and science, sending a lot of the science data down does take a lot of bandwidth, and there are plans in work that are going to upgrade that downlink to a 600 megabit capability. [00:16:38] >> Oh, very cool. [00:16:39] >> Yeah, so. [00:16:39] >> Are you talking about videos for science too? Or -- or mainly, I guess everything, right? [00:16:44] >> Everything. [00:16:44] >> Yeah, like all data and video and audio, everything, so. [00:16:49] >> Everything in that -- that big pipe coming down. [00:16:52] >> That's -- it's got to be a big pipe to support all that stuff. [00:16:55] >> Yes, sir. [00:16:56] >> So let's go -- let's go back 23,000-ish miles above the earth to the TDRS satellites. So, you know, we keep -- we keep saying, TDRS , TDRS , TDRS , but, you know, what is that? What is that network? [00:17:07] >> Yeah, the TDRS network was established back in the early part of the shuttle program. You know, prior to that, and I guess you can take a step back to fully understand it, you know, look back at where we were with Mercury. When the Mercury program came, there was a need to get data from a spacecraft and to communicate to the spacecraft, but nothing existed. And NASA established a manned spaceflight network putting ground stations around the world, they looked at the -- the orbital track that a spacecraft was going to go on its first few orbits, launching due east from Kennedy Space Center, or, at that time, Cape Canaveral. And they placed ground stations to cover a lot of that area, in Africa and Australia, Bermuda, across the United States. So you had ground stations in Corpus Christi, for instance, in California, so when you launched, the spacecraft would go over those ground stations, and -- and if it was a straight overhead pass, it could last as long as eight minutes. [00:18:21] And during that time, you could communicate with it, but for Mercury, they really didn't have a good way to get the data back to the control center at Cape Canaveral. So they... [00:18:29] >> Oh, so this is going to the ground stations, right, not to the...? [00:18:32] >> Right, so they sent people out there and they had teletype communications between the ground stations and the mercury control center, where information could be passed back and forth to the people on the ground or the people back there. Well, they knew, as we were moving into Gemini and beyond, that that wasn't going to work. [00:18:49] >> Right. [00:18:50] >> Mission control in Houston was designed to have an integrated communications network, which was -- became known as the NASA communications network, or NASSCOM, that would connect all of this together, but you still had the limit that the spacecraft had to be over a ground station. And because of the way they were placed, for 2 or 3 orbits, you could have maybe not quite half of the orbit covered by ground stations, maybe less, but you'd have a lot of that where you can communicate with it. And that's how we did Apollo. Now for Apollo, they also used several tracking ships and aircraft to cover areas where there were no ground stations, but they knew there was going to be critical events happening. And those were all tied together, and all the data did go back to mission control in Houston. So we didn't have to send personnel out to the ground stations for Gemini, Apollo, or beyond, all of that came into the control center. [00:19:48] >> So there were no satellites established at this point, right? All -- all the information from the moon was going to all these different points on the earth? [00:19:54] >> That's correct. When we landed on the moon, when the first steps on the moon, I believe that was coming to us through Australia, through the Canberra, or -- oh, which station? It wasn't Canberra, but one of the stations in Australia. [00:20:07] >> Wow! [00:20:09] >> And all being relayed back to us. So, in fact, there was a -- a big controversy, not sure it's ever been completely settled about what Neil Armstrong actually said when he landed -- when he took his first step on the moon, was that, one small step for man or one small step for a man. And he claims he said a man, but you don't hear it, there's a lot of effort, including someone that had tapes from the Australian ground station in his attic [laughing], which probably about 10, 15 years ago were -- were discovered and sent back and I don't think that's still solved the mystery. The assumption was that it -- it came down clearly to Australia, but it was distorted in the transmission back to the control center. And I don't think we've ever really resolved that. So, officially, it's one small step for man. [00:21:02] >> Right. Oh, wow! How about that? Just a little bit of a -- little bit of a gap there. I remember seeing that, just because I was trying to come up with a name for this podcast, and I was like -- I was looking through like historical quotes and stuff, and I was like, I wonder if I can take like a, you know, one small step for man, or something like that? And I found, like, a little parentheses over a, because I guess there was this controversy around it. [00:21:24] >> And, again, I don't know that it was ever resolved. [00:21:26] >> Wow! [00:21:27] >> But we still, again, we still had these gaps in between ground stations that was a concern. And -- and moving into shuttle, which was going to be a -- a -- it never panned out to be what it was going to be, but a -- a reusable spacecraft that could be launched many times in the same year, you know, 30, 40, 50 flights a year, for the same orbiter. That would have been nice [laughter]. But communications was going to be even more important and -- and that's where they working to the -- the space network, the -- the -- all the ground stations were part of the ground network. There's also a deep space network, and when we went to the moon, we used the deep space network that was -- it's based out of the jet propulsion laboratory. [00:22:11] >> Okay, in California? [00:22:12] >> Right. So when you go above -- too far above low-earth orbit, then ground stations, normal ground stations, and their intent is no longer suffice, and you need the -- the very large ground stations, antennas that the deep space network provides, and instead of an antenna so much tracking a spacecraft, it goes across the horizon, the earth is tracking the spacecraft as it rotates around the world, when it gets far enough out. [00:22:43] >> Yeah. [00:22:43] >> But the antenna is still moving a little bit, but a lot slower for than something in low-earth orbit. [00:22:49] >> Were there -- were there large gaps then? If -- if there were all these [inaudible]? [00:22:52] >> For when you get far enough away, and the moon's far enough away, there are no gaps. You handover between Canberra, Australia to Goldstone to Madrid, and those are the three major, the main ground stations in the deep space network, and we will be using that again when we start flying the Orion missions. [00:23:12] >> Alright! So, yeah, it would have been -- I went out to JPL back in October, as a familiarization visit, to -- to look at the Goldstone location, to look at their operations at JPL and to start learning how the ground controllers here at Houston are going to be scheduling those assets in a similar way that we schedule the space network assets. [00:23:34] >> Oh, so the deep space network, you gotta -- you gotta share too, right? [00:23:37] >> Yeah. And the difference there, when we -- when we schedule a space network assets, which are used by a lot o of other users in low-earth orbit, we have to forecast roughly 17 days ahead of time to -- to schedule what we think we're going to need for a week's worth of -- of passes, so, tomorrow we'll be sending in a schedule request for a week that begins two weeks from Monday. [00:24:09] >> Oh, wow. [00:24:10] >> For the JPL, for the deep space network, you put those types of forecast requests in months in advance. [00:24:16] >> Oh. [00:24:17] >> And, you know, one of the things we look at, well, you know, for Orion missions, you almost certainly going to have a launch slip. So months in advance, we say, we're launching this day, we need this support based on our trajectory here, here, and here, and all of a sudden, we slip a day, and all of that's out the window. [00:24:36] >> So during an Orion mission then, so, I guess, you know, you'll be communicating with Orion, but then there's going to be periods during that mission, whatever -- whatever it may be, where you're going to have to trade off and maybe someone else is going to have to take priority for a little bit? [00:24:51] >> It's very possible. [00:24:52] >> Okay. [00:24:52] >> Yo uknow, for any mission, you've got periods that are higher priority than other periods. So you don't have to maintain constant communications with the spacecraft, and we don't with ISS. You know, we frequently have 20, 30 minute gaps, unless we need to have continuous comm. Same thing with -- with Orion. You know, when you're getting ready for a maneuver or an orbital burn or an inner-planetary burn, then you want to have communications, you want to be able to talk to the crew, you want to be able to look at the data coming from the spacecraft, particularly after the burn to make sure that it actually did what you expected it to do. So, during those periods, we will -- we will have solid communications for as long a period as we need to. But during quiescent periods, it's not as important, you know, you don't have to stay in touch the whole time, and other users, you know, are out there that, you know, you got to program Pluto, well, they want communications too. [00:25:54] >> Yeah! Yeah! Well, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So I'm thinking, I mean, right now, I was just reading about Cassini. Cassini's going to start making passes on the inner rings and then, you know, make a controlled entry into Saturn to... [00:26:08] >> Suicide. [00:26:09] >> Yeah, suicide dive, kind of, so, you know, it doesn't affect [inaudible] or tighten or anything like that, and can cause contamination, so, you know, not to be -- not to be mean, but that's one less spacecraft we have to worry about on the deep space network [laughing]. [00:26:23] >> Well, and you're right. You know, it's really not a huge issue sharing times, again, for -- for most of the planetary spacecraft that are out there, it's not that difficult for them to plan months ahead of time. You know, they know when we're going to do this burn in a year and a half. You know, so they can plan when they need that communication. [00:26:45] >> Yeah. You guys must be really good at scheduling, if you're planning that far in advance. [00:26:51] >> Well, I got to -- got to admit, I admire the people at JPL, because the detail they go to, particularly if they're doing a -- a course correction, you know, want to sling around a planet and get a gravity assess to go somewhere else, you know, just the planning for when to make that happen is incredible, but then you also want to have that communications to verify that it's doing what you're doing. And, of course, when they do that, you know, when we're talking to the space station, we talked about the delay, it's -- it's near instantaneous, within a -- a quarter to half a second roundtrip. When you're talking something out of Pluto, it's hours. [00:27:33] >> Right. [00:27:33] >> You know, it's literally hours. It -- it was sort of funny watching some of the Mars landings, and you would see the people at JPL and their control center, and they would get data back that, you know, reentry has started, and they're up jumping and cheering, you know, and I'm thinking, we don't do that! Sit down! Behave yourselves! [Laughter] But, be it, there's nothing they can do at that point. That reentry started 20, 30 minutes ago. [00:28:01] >> Right! At that point, it's like -- it's like a replay. [00:28:04] >> Chutes are out! Yeah! Jump and down! You know, it's -- come on, you know, but, you know, for us, when the shuttle landed, chutes were out, you know, we still had work to do, and this was virtually real-time, so it's -- you know, you couldn't jump up and down and shout and whatever, but for JPL, yeah, that's okay. They're watching events that happened. You know, it may have already crashed and burned by that time, but they don't know it yet. [00:28:30] >> Yeah. [00:28:31] >> And, fortunately, in most cases, it didn't, and it lands very nicely and the rovers are wandering Mars, doing great things, years beyond what they were planned to do! So we got to admire those people out there. [00:28:42] >> Oh, yeah! Curiosity... [00:28:43] >> However, if you go to their control center, right in the center of it, they got this little glass, plexiglass plate with an emblem down there that declares they are the center of the universe. I don't know about that [laughter]. [00:28:58] >> A little egotistical, but okay. [00:29:00] >> It's a great place. [00:29:02] >> Oh, yeah. So they were using the deep space network then to watch... [00:29:04] >> Yeah, so they almost exclusively used the deep space network. [00:29:08] >> Okay, but I would say we use for the International Space Station the TDRS satellite. [00:29:13] >> Right, the space network. We -- we use the G and the ground network for space station, very rarely we use Wallops and White Sands and Armstrong, they're VHF radio capability as an emergency voice capability for the space station. We don't -- I don't think we've ever had to actually use it in an emergency situation, but we schedule passes several times a year to provide proficiency training for the ground stations, and also for the crew and operating the radios to talk to us. So, you know, we do that, but that's the only time we actually use ground station. For normal communications, it's all space network, TDRS. [00:29:58] >> So, the TDRS satellites, you said, you know, some of them are pointing towards the spacecraft and some of them are pointings out towards other things, and this is -- and this is a communication network that you have to share. But, you know, that -- that's 23,000 miles up, there's -- there's several satellites around the earth, right? [00:30:16] >> Yes. there are. [00:30:17] >> So how many are there, and how do they talk to each other? [00:30:21] >> We're [inaudible], I say our, the space network, I believe, on their 12th satellite on orbit. The first one was launched on STS6, back in the 1983 timeframe, I believe. It had problems getting up there. The -- the booster that was supposed to take into geosynchronous orbit malfunctioned. [00:30:46] >> On the satellite? Or on the...? [00:30:49] >> Yeah, for the TDRS satellite, it had an inertial upper stage booster... [00:30:54] >> Oh, okay. [00:30:54] >> That was attached to it that was going to burn, take into geosynch, then the booster would drop off. [00:30:59] >> Okay. [00:31:00] >> And the burn didn't happen correctly. It ended up in a very elliptical orbit, thousands of miles below where it should have been. [00:31:09] >> Oh, so I guess it's unreliable at that point, right? [00:31:12] >> What they had to do on that one, because each satellite has a certain amount of fuel onboard, propellant to basically keep it in its orbitor, to make slight adjustments if they need to drift it to a different part of the earth. They had to use a fair amount of that propellant to gently boost it up into the right orbit. So that -- that reduced its overall lifetime, it's no longer operational, but it did provide great support for many years. So that first one covered the Atlantic Ocean region. [00:31:46] >> Oh, okay. So, 23,000 miles up, that's -- you get that sliver, and I guess, you know, they used all the propellant to... [00:31:53] >> To get it up there, so you get almost a third of the earth. [00:31:55] >> A third of the earth, okay! That's decent. [00:31:58] >> So, and we use that beginning with STS-8, and -- which, before that point, the shuttles were using ground station just like everything else before it, every other spacecraft before that. So, you know, we had the limitations. You first orbit, you had a good amount of communications, first three orbits, and then you drifted off range of most of the ground stations. You might end up with an 8 minute pass every orbit or every 90 minutes. [00:32:25] >> Wow! [00:32:26] >> So, you know, from a control center standpoint, you know, that gives you a chance for a bit of a break, but we don't want that long of a break. We want to stay in touch with them. [00:32:35] >> That's right. 8 minutes is a long break, but, you know... [00:32:37] >> So when the first TDRS got up, we didn't cover a fair part of the orbit -- of half of the earth. Yeah, so starting somewhere with the Pacific to right before the Indian Ocean, you could cover communications. Then we later put up the next TDRS, and, unfortunately, it was destroyed in the Challenger accident. So the second TDRS never made it into space. STS-26, the return to flight, put up for the third TDRS, which became the second operational one, and that closed most of the orbit. You had a -- a -- sort of a banana-shaped sliver over the Indian Ocean that became known as the zone of exclusion. [00:33:22] >> Oh. [00:33:22] >> Where you didn't have communications. And the biggest problem there is, you've got to, you know, picture the TDRS satellites, they have to communicate through a ground station, and that ground station is in White Sands, New Mexico. So they have to be able to see White Sands. So you -- you put one satellite as far east of White Sands as you can, but still maintain good connection with the ground. You put the other one as far west as you can covering the Pacific Ocean region, but still being able to see the ground. [00:33:55] >> And then the other one on the other side? [00:33:57] >> Well, at -- at that point, that's all we had. [00:34:01] >> Oh! [00:34:01] >> But we did -- I think there was 7 TDRS that went up on shuttles before they started going through the expendables to put them up. [00:34:10] >> Oh, okay. [00:34:11] >> But, you know, we eventually got enough to have spares on orbit and solidly cover the east and west side. In the late 90's, there was a scientific satellite, it may have been TRN, but I forget specifically, they had a spacecraft emergency. And as part of the recovery of that, they really needed to have continuous coverage around the earth. So that zone of exclusion was a big hindrance to them. And they took one of the spare satellites, drifted it over the Indian Ocean, they brought up a ground station in the Canberra, Australia, one of the old deep space network stations, I think we still use it for deep space, but they put a capability there to talk to TDRS. And then sent back that -- sent that back to White Sand, so we -- we were able to close the ZOE. [00:35:03] >> Nice. That happened when? [00:35:07] >> I want to say '99, but it was the late -- it may have been, maybe it was the early 90's. Somewhere in the 1990's. So when I started as a GC, it was already there, and that was '97, so it was before '97. [00:35:22] >> Okay. [00:35:24] >> They -- yeah, we need this, and so they built a permanent ground station on Guam, which is known as the Guam Remote Ground Terminal, GRGT, and so we have that today, there's, you know, and so we have that today, you know, for space station, we have a satellite we call 275, it's -- which is the longitude that it's at. And we use it to cover the gap. For a long time, there were limitations to that, for instance, the ground link between Guam and White Sands didn't have enough bandwidth to cover video. So if we were only 275 satellite, we could cover the -- the telemetry and command and voice gap, but you couldn't get video up or down through that. Last year, I believe it was -- they upgraded the link between there and now we can have full video service, full bandwidth, so regardless of where we are in the world, we can have a full communications with the International Space Station. [00:36:28] >> Nice! [00:36:29] >> There's five satellites that we -- that the ISS uses. There's two over the eastern region, what we call TDRS East and TDRS Spare. There's two over the western region, TDRS West and a TDRS that we just refer to it by longitude, 171. [00:36:47] >> Okay. [00:36:47] >> And then we have 275 over the Indian Ocean. So we'll use three of them, you know, one east, one west, and one in the Indian Ocean to cover the entire orbit, if we need to, for -- for EVAs and spacewalks, for robotics operations where we need to have a good link to the ground. We'll declare a TDRS critical period, and for a period of several hours to maybe a day or more, we will schedule constantly during that period. If we don't have critical activities going on, then we'll schedule around important events. If there's a private conference with the crew, we want to make sure that we have good S band coverage, preferably good K band coverage if it's a private family conference where we're setting up a video teleconference capability, then we want to have that K band covered. So, the -- the ops plan control -- controllers in there that look at what's being planned, one of their backrooms generates the TDRS coverage request that says these are the times we really need to have that coverage, which is given to another position called pointing, which then uses tools that they have that -- that takes in the altitude timeline of the space station. [00:38:10] Which is important, because you need to know how the station is pointing it in a particular side to know whether it has a good -- a good view of a TDRS satellite or whether there's blockage to some of its antennas. And then they design which satellites were used at any given time, and that all goes into a forecast request that's provided to my position, the ground controllers, and then we work with the people out of White Sands to physically schedule those satellites for the time required. [00:38:40] >> I see. And so the ops planner, that's -- that's another flight controller position, right? Your ground control, ops planner, they're the ones planning out and they -- they determine those times and they send the information to you. [00:38:50] >> They take inputs from the increment lead team that says this is what the crew needs to do at any given time, and they pull all the science inputs and the crew inputs and everything into one, big package and have to come up with a plan of what coverage is needed to support that. And then it goes, like I said, to pointing, who determines what works and what doesn't work. You know, we have to be in view of the satellite, but we also have to have good antenna coverage for S band, S band is a lower data rate, and its -- doesn't require as precise pointing. [00:39:29] >> Okay. [00:39:29] >> So, the coverage for S band is a lot better, generally. K band is a very much higher rate signal that has a dish antenna on the space station that has to be precisely pointed at the dish antenna of the TDRS. And depending on the attitude of the space station, there's plenty of times where solar rays, trusses, or other structure of the space station block that. [00:39:54] >> And those are predictable, right? So even though you schedule, you prioritize the schedule for, say, a spacewalk, and you prioritize the schedule, you're still going to have little periods of -- of interruptions, and it's because of that? [00:40:06] >> Exactly. And -- and because of that, you know, you have two satellites over the east, two over the west. Sometimes you've got bad KU coverage over one of those satellites, but just because of a slight difference, maybe 3 to 4 degrees difference on orbit, but that's at 23,000 miles up, so that's quite an angular distance. You may have better coverage over the other -- from the other satellites. So pointing, they'll look at their tools and they'll say, well, normally, we would use TDRS East to cover this part of the world, but for this particular request, or requirement, TDRS Spare is going to provide better coverage. :45 Or normally we would take TDRS East until we run out of view of it, and then if we needed 275, hand up to it, or maybe that last portion of the pass is bad coverage, but 275 is good, and since we can do video through that now, then we can move on. They'll say, let's schedule this for that period of time. [00:41:05] >> Right. So there's a lot -- there's a lot going on behind the scenes that creates that clean coverage that we're just not aware of. There's handovers and all kinds... [00:41:13] >> That's all the forecast period. That's saying nothing ever changes, but it does change frequently. So in the real time period, you know, we -- once the forecast is scheduled and set, you enter the real time period about a week before you actually start using that. Which means pointing outcomes and says, well, the trajectory has changed a little bit since we generated that forecast request. Or this spacewalk has been added here, or something else, due to some reason that wasn't predicted ahead of time, and now we need different coverage. So that then comes into a -- a system where they generate a -- what we call a flight note that says, change up our coverage based on this, and the flight director will have to approve that, and then the GC, my position, will go work with White Sands and say, we -- we need to give up this time, but get this time, and White Sands may say, well, another user has that time, so what's the priority? [00:42:16] You know, can we bump the other user or, you know, is it a TDRS critical period that's driving that? In which case, we probably can bump the other use, because human spaceflight has higher priority, in general, than scientific spacecraft. [00:42:31] >> I see. [00:42:32] >> But not always. It -- there's lots... [00:42:35] >> But in -- in times of like a spacewalk or something, then I guess it would take -- it would kind of trump it? [00:42:40] >> Yes. It would -- it would trump it. Sometimes we have to get the management at Goddard involved to go arbitrate or -- or, you know, help us with our request. [00:42:51] >> Oh, you guys got to fight over the....? [00:42:52] >> There are times we do. And we -- we can never know who the other users are. You know, that's -- that's their business, not our business, they don't know who we are when we're asking for their time. So the terminology is a higher priority user needs this. [00:43:08] >> In general, who are some of the other folks that use the TDRS satellites? [00:43:11] >> Most of them are like Hubble space -- space telescope, TRM was a good example, different satellites doing earth sciences. But Department of Defense also uses them. [00:43:23] >> Oh! [00:43:24] >> And sometimes when you get a higher priority user, they really are a higher priority user, and we -- we can tell from the way things are being told to us that we don't need to go fight this battle, we're not going to win [laughter]. But if we have a spacecraft emergency, that bumps us up to the highest priority user. [00:43:43] >> Totally makes sense. So, we're running out of time just a little bit, but I do want to talk about one more thing before I let you go, and that's, I know, you know, we're talking about how the International Space Station has near instantaneous, you're saying quarter of a second-ish, roundtrip communication. I know if we go to Mars, when we go to Mars, that's going to take a long time. We're talking about way longer than just a fraction of a second. Are we -- are we training for what that's going to look like? [00:44:13] >> Yes, we are! That certainly is a consideration, we actually began several years ago with an experiment. I think it's been a while since we've done it, but we've put delay equipment into one of our space-to-ground channels up to the crew. We -- only one of them though. And it was a planned experiment with the crew where we would talk from the ground, and it would sit on the ground for 10 minutes before being sent up. [00:44:42] >> Yeah, right. [00:44:42] >> And the crew would respond, and it would sit on the ground for 10 minutes before being put into our voice system. So you'd have a 20-minute round-time delay. And -- and they would practice with simple tasks. You know, and that's depending on circumstances. You know, a 10 minute or longer one-way trip time is very possible as you head toward Mars. [00:45:04] >> Right. [00:45:05] >> The other day, when I was at that mission control film, Dr. Kraft was asked, you know, what the next step for NASA should be? And he says, I don't know why we're going to Mars? [00:45:16] >> Oh. [00:45:16] >> He said, you go to the moon and explore its resources, you're a 3 second voice time away. If you go to Mars, you're 40 minutes away. [00:45:25] >> Yeah. [00:45:25] >> And, you know, and there's a lot of other reasons on that, but -- but that's a good example. So -- so we're thinking along the lines of, well, right now, we talk to the crew, and we say, they're having a problem, and someone on the ground, well, this procedure says they should go do this, so we tell them that. Then they go do that, and then it doesn't work, and they say, well, that didn't work, what should I do next? And, well, go try this. Well, you can't do that real time when you're a 20 or 40 minute round trip voice path away. [00:45:57] >> Yeah, you have a problem, you're not getting an answer for 40 minutes. So you've got to frame your questions and your directions a lot differently. You know, we -- we want you to try this step, if that doesn't work, go to this part of the procedure, if that doesn't work, go to that part of the procedure. You've got to understand and think of what the problems could be ahead of time, and you want to package that conversation one way to include as much information and as much alternate things that they can do as possible, and they get that and they try it, and they'll have to package their response back in a similar way that says we did this and we did that and we did this, and maybe this worked, or maybe we got this indication, not that indication, you know, and so instead of a quick, 2 second voice uplink, you may have a 2 or 3 minute voice uplink to them, to give them a lot of options, they can go work, and then respond back. [00:46:58] So those types of things are part of the planning process, and -- and how do we handle this obstacle? We can't beat physics. So, how do we work with it to the best of our advantage? [00:47:10] >> Right. So the main thing really you discovered is that talking on Mars is going to be really, really annoying, so. [00:47:16] >> It will be. [00:47:17] >> [Laughing] But you're coming up with all the right techniques to make sure it's... [00:47:20] >> But we go back to the JPL session, you know, when they -- because they send back something say it worked, you can jump up and down and cheer, because, you know, you're not affecting anything real time. [00:47:31] >> Yeah. Very cool! Okay, well, I think that's -- that's about all the time we have. Bill, thank you so much for coming... [00:47:37] >> It's my pleasure. [00:47:38] >> ....and talking about space communication. Learned a lot, I'm sure there's much more to this topic. If there's anything we missed, stay tuned to after the outro music here, and we'll tell you about how to talk to us to see if there's -- if you have any suggestions for questions or topics that we can answer. So, Bill, thanks again for coming on the show, and hopefully we'll see you next time! [00:47:58] >> You bet! Y'all have a great day! [00:47:59] >> Thanks! [00:48:00] [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] Hey, thanks for sticking around! So, today we talked space communication with Bill Foster, and you can learn way more about it if you go on the internet! A great place to go for more information for pretty much everything, including learning about space communication. So I have a website here called, deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov, or you can just go and search for DSNow, that's deep space network now. It's a really cool website where, if you go, you can actually see which satellites are being used for which things in the deep space network. That was one of the main things that Bill and I talked about today. If you want to know more about the International Space Station, where we are sending a lot of our space communication now on a day-to-day basis, you can go to nasa.gov/iss, and learn everything about all the latest updates about the International Space Station. [00:49:13] We have blogs and articles and scientific updates on a day-to-day basis, so make sure you go there. We're also very active on social media for the International Space Station, on Facebook, it's -- the title of the page itself is called, The International Space Station, on Twitter, it's @space_station, and on Instagram, it's @ISS. If you go to any one of those, you can find some great information, but you can also use the hashtag, @asknasa, on any one of those platforms, and we'll take a look and you can submit an idea for a podcast topic or maybe you just have a question, and we'll try to address it later on a podcast, just make sure to mention, Houston, We Have a Podcast, in that hashtag. This podcast was recorded on April 13th, 2017. Thanks to John Stohl, Alex Perryman, and Matt McKinsey for helping with the script, and thanks again for Bill Foster for coming on the show. We'll see you next time!

hwhap_Ep38 Stories of Her Strength

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-03-30

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 38: Stories of Her Strength. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your cohost today along with Jenny Turner, International Space Station flight controller and the chair of the Women Excelling in Life and Leadership employee resource group, more commonly known as WELL here on site. Jenny, thanks for coming on. Jenny Turner: Yeah, of course, thanks for having me. Host: So, Jenny, tell us more about these employee resource groups and their purpose and the one you chair as well. Jenny Turner: Yeah. So employee resource groups are here at JSC to help promote inclusion and innovation. So there's nine total. They focus on the experiences of different racial backgrounds, age, human systems integration, veterans, the LGBT community, employees with disabilities, and caregivers, and gender for WELL in particular. So at JSC and everywhere, really, the diverse experiences, backgrounds, and skills that we bring to work every day are, really, I think, what makes us so competitive and successful. So we really want to work to highlight that aspect of our community and just provide that resource for people in those groups, as well as allies. So for WELL in particular we are focused on promoting and supporting women at JSC. We provide mentoring opportunities so that women in management and entering into mid-level employees can connect. We do some outreach with the committee -- I'm sorry, the community, especially when it comes to girls and STEM. And we also have professional development luncheons with all sorts of topics that just also include personal development. Of course, being the women's group, we do tackle some harder subjects that are sometimes uncomfortable. But our intent is always, you know, never to accuse but just to make aware and kind of provide that forum for issues that affect us and the ones we love. Recently, especially with today's climate, we've also worked with our employee assistance program counselors here to provide a safe space for discussion on harassment in the workplace and just provide resources for victims and witnesses. Overall, yeah, it's just a great privilege we have to support the phenomenal women at the center. Host: Yeah. You guys are doing great things around here. I love it. So let's kick it off with today's theme. What's today's podcast all about? Jenny Turner: So it is -- it's just that, it's this focus that helps us highlight the tenacity of women everywhere. As the National Women's History Project site summarizes, honoring women who fight all forms of discrimination against women. So for WELL, we are doing a whole range of events or we have done. We have a couple of outreach events that we did. We did some with a first robotics group locally here with about 100 high school students and 13 women from NASA going out just to talk about our careers. We've also done a joint event with the fitness center on site to promote wellness. But our flagship event is actually the Wikipedia Editathon. So we initially got this idea from an article on a similar event at the University of Houston. So right now on Wikipedia there's -- only about 17% of biographies are women at all. So what we're doing is collecting information and biographies of women at NASA and in STEM fields to create new pages or just update them with more information. That way we can just help contribute to the presence of inspiring stories that women everywhere can have easy access to and say, "Yes, my goals are possible and they're there within reach." So we're really excited about that. We're getting a lot of good feedback and a lot of good entries. So it's looking good. Host: Exactly. And we're going to expand on that in today's episode. So Houston, We Have a Podcast is teaming up with WELL for Women's History Month to tackle this theme. And we've wrangled four guests, all who are leaders here at the Johnson Space Center of different divisions across the center -- International Space Station, flight operations, engineering, and then finally human health and performance. And we'll get to hear their story of how they got to NASA, how they persevered and rose to a leadership role. So Jenny, who is the first guest on our list? Jenny Turner: So first up is Dana Weigel. She's from the International Space Station Vehicle Office. She's the current manager. And she is also one of our executive sponsors for WELL. So she helps to give us advice and support all of our activities here at JSC. Host: Great. Let's right into it. Producer Alex, cue the music. [ Music ] Host: Dana, thank you so much for coming on the show today to sort of tell your story. Dana Weigel: Sure. Host: All right. I wanted to start with just your childhood because becoming -- for you coming to NASA was almost normal, right, since you live so close? Dana Weigel: Yeah. I was a couple towns over. And, of course, we had family coming in from all across the United States. And what they wanted to do was go to NASA. And I remember telling my parents, "No, do I have to go again? We go there all the time. I'm always going to NASA." I've got these pictures of me as a kid. Back in the day, by the way, you used to be able to come on site. So there wasn't a Space Center Houston, you just came directly to NASA. Host: Oh, there was no gates or anything? Dana Weigel: Nope, completely open. You could wander around kind of whenever you wanted. But they did have this public area where they had this cardboard or a wooden spacesuit cutout. And so I've got these pictures through the years of me poking my head through this spacesuit. So I can't say I grew up imagining that I'd ever work [Laughs] -- work at NASA. Host: Maybe it was more subtle. Maybe because you were here, it was just sort of ingrained in your childhood. Maybe this is something I want to do. Dana Weigel: Maybe so. It was familiar for sure, I'll say that. Host: So then what got you -- was it maybe coming here that you got interested in STEM? Or was it parental influence that got you interested in, like, a technologies, science, math -- anything like that? Dana Weigel: You know, both my parents are biochemists, and my grandfather was a chemical engineer. And he's really the one what introduced me to engineering, talked to me about what it was. He was influential in starting early chapters of Society of Women Engineers, SWE. So he talked to me about that. And I thought, "Hey, this is something a female could do. I could go do this." So I went off to go become a mechanical engineer. And then I was heading down a path to go design prosthetics. So I thought I'd be a mechanical engineer and then go be a doctor, and then go work in a clinic and do something related to designing legs or whatnot. [ Laughter ] Dana Weigel: After I graduated, I started taking night classes to finish all of the biologies and all the things I hadn't had as an engineer that I would need to do the MCAT. And I met a biomedical engineer who worked at NASA. She worked in Mission Control and she talked about her job, and I thought, "Wow, that sounds pretty interesting." Host: Biomedical, Mission Control, yeah. Yeah. Dana Weigel: So I decided, "You know, I got a few more years or maybe two more years, I think, of night classes I had to take to qualify for med school. Why don't I see if I can work at NASA while I'm doing that?" So I applied and I became a contractor with Barrios Technology, working in Mission Operations Directorate is what it was called at the time. And ended up with a job doing extra-vehicular activity, EVA, the spacesuits, the same suits I poked my head through, you know, for years as a kid. Host: Ah, coming full circle. Dana Weigel: Yeah. And then I fell in love with it and decided, "Why am I trying to go be a physician? I'll just stay here and be a flight controller and work for NASA." Host: Did you end up finishing those two years or did you say, "No, NASA's for me"? Dana Weigel: I finished the classes. Host: All right. Dana Weigel: I did not take the MCAT. By then I was hooked. Host: [Laughs] Really? Dana Weigel: Decided to stay, yeah. Host: So what were you doing in space suits specifically? What were you working on? Dana Weigel: In mission operations there were kind of two functions. One was being an instructor, so I would teach crew and teach other flight controllers about the spacesuit. And then I also worked in Mission Control and was very fortunate I got to work Shuttle missions, Hubble missions, and Space Station missions as an EVA flight control. Host: Oh. So okay, when you heard flight controlling, sitting in Mission Control, that sounds pretty cool -- that's exactly what you pursued. You pursued sitting in Mission Control? Dana Weigel: I did. Host: All right. Dana Weigel: I did, and it was very cool. Host: [Laughs] What sorts of challenges did you have to get before you can sit in the main room? Dana Weigel: They've kind of got like a hierarchy. It's interesting, it's set up like a pyramid. There's what's called a back room. And there were folks there who were looking at very detailed procedures and schematics. And you go through a certification process, a lot of training, lot of certification, a lot of practice in simulations to get certified there. And then typically have two different back room positions that you have to conquer before you can try to sit in the front room, the big front room. Host: What are those positions? Dana Weigel: So for the EVA office, which is where I was, there was one that was focused on the suit -- the spacesuit -- on the systems-side focused. And then there was the what we call the test side, which is what you're actually doing. So, like, for repairing the Hubble space telescope, understanding the tools, the requirements, what you have to do to change out boxes. So those were the two big pieces for the area I was in. Host: And you, I guess, touched both then, right? Dana Weigel: I did. Host: All right. Did you actually get to work on some of the -- I guess beyond the procedures, were you working on the hardware at all or was it mainly Mission Control-based? Dana Weigel: That's a good question. So I think one of unique things about the area I was in with EVA, because it's such a -- it requires such a physical skill to do the job, we did spend a lot of time a couple years before the mission doing development runs in the neutral buoyancy lab to help figure out what types of tools would be needed, what types of crew aides, for example, and then depending upon who we were doing the work with, station program or Hubble, you'd go work with providers to help design and help figure out what you needed for the mission. Host: Okay. So you were doing a little bit of both. Did you get to actually suit up and go in the neutral buoyancy laboratory, anything cool like that? Dana Weigel: I did. Host: Oh, awesome. Dana Weigel: I am height-challenged. So I'm actually on the smaller end of the scale. So many years ago they were entertaining having what they call an extra small hard upper torso and they needed test subjects. So I fit the bill. I have very short arms. So I did a large number of runs very early on, trying to help them figure out, you know, how you can optimize reach for the smaller end of the crew spectrum. [ Laughter ] Host: How did that work with the shorter arms? Dana Weigel: It's very frustrating. Host: I can imagine. Dana Weigel: Very frustrating. Host: What was some of the more uncomfortable parts of it? Was it the chest area where you could, I guess, with shorter arms trying to reach in front of you? Or was it maybe the pressure that was causing maybe some strain on your fingers or something? Dana Weigel: You know, it's both. The reaching in front of you, getting two hands in front of you on a work site is difficult, but also the way the vehicle is built, there's a certain handrail spacing that is designed in. And so in a lot of cases even just the reach from one place to another could be challenging. [ Laughter ] Yes, you don't want to let go. You don't want to let go -- that's key. Host: That's right, that's right. Well, you're tethered, so you got that. But still, you definitely want to hang on with both hands. So then where did your path take you then? Is it -- I know you became a flight director, but was it immediately there or were there some extra steps? Dana Weigel: Let's see, in 2004, I became a civil servant. So that was probably maybe eight or nine years I had done the job. And then a year after that, in 2005 I applied to be a flight director. And I was selected, I was the first specialist discipline that had ever been selected to become a flight director. Host: So that means EVA then, right? Dana Weigel: Yeah. I mean, historically the flight director office had pulled from disciplines or from what we call core disciplines, things like life support system or thermal, someone who's there all the time, 24/7, tons of hours in Mission Control, tons of time. They understand the spacecraft. They interact with all the other major kind of infrastructure systems. Whereas a specialist is someone who comes in just for a certain activity, like robotics or EVA. You come in to prep the spacesuits, do you the space walk, and then you leave. So you have more limited time in Mission Control. Host: Yeah. Okay. So they wanted someone to lead Mission Control who was sort of used to being there all the time and knew how things worked all the time? Dana Weigel: It was the comfort zone. That's just what had been done before. And so this, I think, in their mind was a little bit of gamble. There wasn't as much direct opportunity to watch a specialist on console and see how they perform. You get many, many more opportunities with someone who's there all the time. Host: So how did you sell it? You being in a specialist discipline, how did you sell it like, "Yes, I'm the person you want to be in this flight director class"? Dana Weigel: Yeah, that -- that's interesting. Because the interview, I thought it would kind of be a generic vanilla interview, but it was very customized to how am I going to compensate for coming in as a specialist? Every question was related to compensation for coming from EVA as a discipline and a specialist area. So we talked a lot about that. And, you know, anyone who can lead or has a certain set of capabilities, you can apply that in any number of different areas, right? So knowledge is only one piece of the puzzle, you know? Coming in with a certain set of knowledge, it will only get you so far, right? So what you're really looking for is the rest of the adaptable skillset that someone else has. Host: So how did you build those skillsets, then, over time, over your time as an EVA, the skillsets to show that you were a leader, that you could lead the flight control team? Dana Weigel: I had a handful of unique opportunities. One was after the Columbia accident I became the overall lead for operations for trying to figure out how we'd repair the Shuttle's thermal protective system. So I ended up with a pretty large team, maybe 15 or so people in my area. And we were working, of course, with engineering, and safety, and other directorates, too, trying to figure out how to solve that. So I was fortunate in that I was involved in, you know, something that was pretty complex and had more, you know, in-depth kind of leadership responsibilities. Host: Yeah, I'm sure you sort of set that in the interviews, "No, I'm very used to leading teams for very important things like that." So then once you were sitting in the seat, I'm sure it wasn't just, "All right, now you're accepted. Let's lead the teams, please." I'm sure you still had some struggles. Dana Weigel: Yeah, I think the first year that I was in the office was a challenge for the management team. They didn't know -- they didn't know if they should just assign me the normal things they would assign someone else who had a core kind of discipline background. So they did a number of odd things like customizing assignments and trying to keep it close to the EVA realm. It was actually quite frustrating. I was treated differently than the rest of my class of nine. We were a class of nine. So I actually thought at one point, "Should I quit? Should I leave? Are they not ready for this?" And then I thought, "Nah, I can do this job. And I want to do this job. I'm going to stay, I'm going to do it. I'll show them." I put my head down, okay, whatever assignments you want to give me, I'll knock them out. I'll do it, even though I thought it was odd how they were managing that. And then about a year into it, to my surprise, they gave me the largest assignment -- the first big assignment, really, of the whole class and everything changed. Host: Really? Wow. Okay. So you had to prove -- basically putting your head down and saying, "Okay, sure, give me whatever you want. But whatever you give me, I'm going to own it." And I guess that sort of showed. It showed that you could take on this large responsibility. Dana Weigel: Exactly. Host: What was the large responsibility out of curiosity? Dana Weigel: Yeah. So I actually ended up being assigned to the first increment. So I think most people are familiar -- at least who work Space Station -- with what our increments are, but basically we've got a set of crew members who fly up on a Soyuz and come back on a Soyuz. And so we've got a period of time that is an increment. So I was assigned to lead the first increment and then also assigned to lead the first Shuttle assembly mission for my class. Host: Wow, all right. [Laughs] Yeah. Very big task and very new, too. So how long were you a flight director, then? Dana Weigel: I did that for about ten years total in the office. The last three years I was the deputy of that office. Host: Oh, wow. All right. So flight directors leading more flight directors? [Laughs] Dana Weigel: That's something else, too. Host: Yeah [Laughs] really. So then what made you want to -- what opportunities came up next that you wanted to not be a flight director anymore or lead flight directors? Dana Weigel: So this next change wasn't really my choice necessarily. Host: Oh, okay. Dana Weigel: During one of the space walks -- it was EVA 23 -- we had crew members Chris Cassidy and Luca Parmitano doing a space walk. And about an hour into the space walk, Luca started noticing that his -- his com cap, which is kind a spandex cut-type cap that's on his head felt a little moist, felt wet. And as the EVA went on, it started getting wetter and wetter. And it became apparent that he had water in his helmet. It's pretty scary. Most of your contingency we've ever had on Space Station, the water ended up on the back of his head and worked its way across his eyes and over his nose. Host: Oh. Dana Weigel: And luckily, his mouth -- he still could breathe. Could have drowned. He was very calm. And the actions he took saved his life. But after that major failure, the program manager at the time, Mike Suffredini, kind of tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Hey, I need you to go lead this investigation." Host: It was because you had the EVA background? Dana Weigel: Because I had the background, but also he had worked with me on a number of other contingency situations in Mission Control. Host: Okay. Dana Weigel: And had had kind of seen me leading the teams. Host: Knew you could do it? Dana Weigel: He knew I could, I didn't know I could. [ Laughter ] Host: All right. So then this was -- I guess it took you away from this deputy role. And now you were leading this investigation, a failure investigation. What -- so I'm guessing you had a lot of challenges there, too? Dana Weigel: I did. When he first asked me to do it, I said, "Surely you have someone else who's qualified to lead a failure investigation." I come from operations. I don't build fault trees. I don't -- I've never seen someone go all the way down to root cause in an investigation. And, you know, he made the point that what's more important is having a strong leader, not having someone with the right knowledge, right? Host: Because you surround yourself with people -- Dana Weigel: Yeah, that's the point as a leader, right? It's not about what you know, it's about what you can draw out of people. Host: Yeah. Dana Weigel: So I led that. It was about a year-long investigation. A lot of hard work, fantastic team. We've got a lot of expertise, not just here but at other centers that helped us out. Host: Wow. Dana Weigel: Learned a lot about errors we had made with water behavior on the ground versus on orbit. Host: Hmm. Okay. And then so I guess that was your new job, then, for a whole year? And I guess you didn't go back to flight directing then after that? Dana Weigel: No, after that the program manager -- we happened to have an opening in the Space Station program and he asked me to come in and lead one of the offices there, which is what I'm currently doing now. Host: The vehicle office, right? Dana Weigel: Yes. Host: So what do you do in the vehicle office? Dana Weigel: So the vehicle office is responsible for building all the vehicle hardware, the system hardware, thermal systems, power systems. There's a lot of building and maintaining that hardware. And then also payload facilities. So there are a lot of multiuser payload facilities that we have on the vehicle to do science club boxes, and combustion racks, fluid racks, a lot of other things. So we build and maintain that hardware. Host: Okay. So basically the vehicle being the International Space Station, you just got to make sure the gas is going, it's running? Dana Weigel: Yes [Laughs]. Yes, that's a nice, simplified way of saying. Well, one of the other really neat things we're doing, though, with the vehicle, we are working on building the exploration-grade life support systems that could take us to Mars. Host: Oh. Dana Weigel: And it's really important that we test those in microgravity and in a relevant environment. So you can't really emulate that on the ground. Host: Yeah, you got to make sure it's working in this. Okay. So that's on the International Space Station right now then? Dana Weigel: We're starting the build. In fact, the first piece of hardware should go up this summer. And we'll continue adding over the next three or so years, three to four years. And then we're hoping to test it for a few years and get ourselves in a much better position for having reliable life support systems that could take us on to Mars. [ Laughter ] Host: Extremely important job. That's really, really cool. So along this path that you're talking about from maybe starting with, you know, space is there but it's maybe I want to go into prosthetics, to eventually working your way up the management chain. And now leading groups, leading teams, doing things that you didn't think you were going to do, leading failure investigation teams. What sort of traits did you have or maybe work on to get you to be able to do these things? Dana Weigel: I mean, one thing for sure is being persistent. If you want to do something, don't give up. Put your head down, keep working towards it. You know, I built my career on assignments that were not necessarily the most interesting or sexy assignments. It doesn't matter what it is, if you do it well, people will recognize it. You know, a lot of times I took the harder jobs that people just didn't want to touch because they didn't look fun. And those can be some of your biggest successes. The bigger the challenge, the more you're going to grow. If you want to grow as a leader, you've got to put yourself into positions where you don't know everything, right? You've got to really stretch really far so that you have to rely on the team. You've got to kind of make that stretch from individual contributor to leading and being reliant on the team. I mean, that's key. A leader is only as good as the team that's following them. Host: So it seems like you weren't looking for -- no, that's not fun, I don't really want to do that. It seems like you were almost seeking the challenge. You're like, "Yeah, I want to do that. This is going to be hard, but that's something that I want to do." Dana Weigel: If something's broken and you can go fix it, you know, that -- you'll learn a ton. You'll grow a lot from that. Host: All right. I love this idea of persistence, of [Laughs] even if it's hard, someone's got to do it. And I think I can do it, I'm going to challenge myself and improve my skills to get me to that point. Very cool. Dana, thanks so much for coming on and telling your story and really inspiring this idea of persistence. So I appreciate you coming on. Dana Weigel: Thank you very much. [Spacey Sound Effect] Host: Okay. That was Dana Weigel talking about her journey and her current role as a leader in the International Space Station program. So Jenny, who do we have next? Jenny Turner: So next we have Ginger Kerrick. She's from the Flight Operations Directorate. And she's currently the chief of the flight integration division. Host: Okay, through the worm hole we go. [Spacey Sound Effect] Host: Ginger, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to talk about your story. Ginger Kerrick: Thanks for having me. Host: Of course. So I kind of wanted to start from the beginning, just kind of establish the baseline of how you first even got into, I guess, your interest NASA but just STEM in general -- what was the inspiration there? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, sure. I used to check out books from the library every Friday. And I brought home one book when I was five years old called Astronomy and Astronauts. And I read that book cover to cover and proudly went into the living room and proclaimed to my parents that yea verily, I know what I needed to do for the rest of my life. And I absolutely needed to be an astronaut. Host: Wow. So whatever course was going to take you there, that's the one you were going to go with. Ginger Kerrick: Mm-hmm. Host: Okay. So then you started pursuing physics, right? Ginger Kerrick: Yes. Host: And that's when you started going to -- I guess it transitioned into university, right? So you started taking classes there? Ginger Kerrick: Yes. Early on in childhood we didn't have honors classes. And so my mom would meet with each one of my teachers and tell them that Ginger was special. So they would give me extra work and projects. And so that worked out well early on. And then eventually in high school got into honors classes, and then I zeroed in on I wanted to major in physics. So I started off at the University of El Paso in physics and then eventually transferred to Texas Tech. Host: Okay. Did you -- did you -- was it this goal that you had in the back of your mind that really helped you kind of excel? Because you graduated in the second of your class in high school, right? Ginger Kerrick: Yes, yes, by 1/1000 of a point, not that I carry that with me to this day. [ Laughter ] Yeah, it was the goal, but it was also my upbringing. My dad died when I was 11 years old and my mom explained to me that I was not going to be able to go to college unless I had scholarships. And so she explained the way to get scholarships was you do really well in sports or you do really well in school. And so I thought, "Well, okay, I need to go to college. So I better do really well in both." So when I graduated, I had a lot of different academic scholarships to choose from and some athletic scholarships to choose from. Host: Really? What did you play? Ginger Kerrick: Basketball. Host: Oh, all right. Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, I was voted El Paso's Female Athlete of the Year for the city the year that I graduated, too. So I played basketball and volleyball, and I had offers in both to go play at different places. Host: Okay. So what made you choose the academic route over the sports route? Ginger Kerrick: Bigger scholarships and bigger schools. Host: Oh, okay. Ginger Kerrick: So four-year schools that I knew I could get a reputable degree from that NASA would recognize. Host: Okay. Oh, that's right. Because the ultimate goal is this astronaut, right? So you were doing a lot of things to get to NASA particularly, right? Ginger Kerrick: Yes. I actually wrote to them when I was 11. Host: Really? Ginger Kerrick: And I asked what it took to get here. And they wrote me back, there's a few -- and they said, you know, stay in school, stay out of trouble, listen to your parents. And I had my little letter, so proud. [ Laughter ] Host: That's very cool. Ginger Kerrick: Yeah. Host: Hey, that would inspire me, too, if I got a letter from NASA. Oh, NASA saying I need to stay in school? I will do that [Laughs]. So in school, what -- how did that go? Did it just -- going through physics classes and working your way to get to NASA? Ginger Kerrick: Well, early on it was pretty easy, to be honest. I was at University of Texas El Paso. I was taking 22 hours a semester, and I had a 4.0. By then -- and I was living at home -- but then when I moved away, my first time away from home, I kind of, you know, got into a little bit of trouble because I stayed out too late, I hung out with my friends, I did things that my mom wouldn't allow me to do when I was living at home. And I wound up with a fat 2.7 my first semester. So I remember calling NASA and asking if that was good enough for their co-op program. Host: You called them back? Ginger Kerrick: After they stopped laughing, they said, "Why don't you call us back when you get it above a 3.0 and we'll think about it." And so I wound up losing one of my scholarships at Texas Tech and I had to get another part-time job. So I worked three part-time jobs for the remainder of my college years. But I got it back up to a 3.2, and that was good enough to qualify for NASA's -- it was a one-shot summer internship program. So that's how I got my foot in the door. Host: Wow, so this goal in the back of your mind was really driving you? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, absolutely. Host: Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing. Because to work three part-time jobs, plus have that school that you got to maintain and you got to get -- you got to increase your GPA? Ginger Kerrick: Yes. Host: All at the same time. That's an insane amount of time. I'm sure your social life was pretty much -- Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, it was suffering and I was hungry. [ Laughter ] Because I couldn't afford a lot of food. Host: Yeah. Ginger Kerrick: So my mom would fly in every once in a while and take me to Sam's. I'd be like, "Yay." Host: But it got you there, right? Then you ended up getting the summer internship at NASA? Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, yeah. So I got the summer internship here. And I remember working for this gentleman named Jose [inaudible] in the safety office. And I met him very first day, and I said, "Look, here's the deal. This is a one-shot deal and I want that internship." Back then it was called the co-op program, what is now known as the Pathways intern. I said, "I want a co-op position. And I don't know how to get it. Do you have any ideas?" And he didn't. And I said, "Look, how about this? I have friends that are working in other orgs. What if I finish my work for you and then I go help them on their projects? And then maybe their bosses will see me and maybe can I get their bosses to write me a letter of recommendation. So if I get multiple letters, maybe then at the end of the summer you can walk down to the co-op office with me and all these letters saying that I've done good work everywhere and get converted." And he's like, "Okay." And so that's what we did. Toward the end of the summer I was like, "Come on. We got to go." So he went to the co-op office. I'm like, "Tell him Ginger did a really good job this summer." And I said yes, and not only him and these other individuals think that, too. And he says, "I think you should move her into the co-op program." And they said okay. Host: So what was so intriguing about the co-op program that you worked so hard to get there? Ginger Kerrick: Because that was a promise. So the internship, I come work here, I go back to school, NASA doesn't owe me anything. But if I got into the co-op program, then it's a partnership. I work for NASA a semester, I go to school; I work for NASA a semester. And back then upon graduation, you're pretty much guaranteed a job. More so than if I had just been a one-shot intern. So that was my way of making sure that I got into a recognized agreement with NASA. Host: Okay. So you worked hard in the summer internship to short of get into this almost sealed deal. Ginger Kerrick: More stable, yes. Host: A sealed deal. And then you get hired on as a civil servant, too, right? Ginger Kerrick: Yes -- yeah, yeah. Host: So you get to do a lot of different things as a civil servant, right? It seems like whenever you did get to NASA eventually, you moved around quite a bit? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, yeah. So when I first got back, when I first started, that was May of '94. And I was hired by safety, reliability, and quality assurance, and I worked in the bolts testing laboratory and the calibration laboratory. And then after about a year doing that, I was converted to a materials research engineer where I just supervised the quality of some of the production that was going into the Space Shuttle and early on in the Space Station. And after a year of doing that, my boss knew that I wanted to be an astronaut. And so I went down and turned in my astronaut application. And Duane Ross suggested that I get out of the area that I was in and get some exposure to operations. And so Duane Ross introduced me to the concept of a rotational assignment in NASA where your organization will allow to go do some other job in a different organization for about a six-month period to get some exposure. So I convinced my boss, I said, "Hey, the guy that's the selecting official for the astronauts said I should do this, that you should sign here." And so he let me go off, and I went to the Mission Operations Directorate as an instructor for the Space Station life support systems. Host: Oh, wow. Okay. So, [Laughs] again, not only NASA -- we should go back on this -- not only NASA was the goal but astronaut. Astronaut is part of this picture. And it has to do with when you were a kid saying, "This is what I want to do." Ginger Kerrick: Exactly. Host: So eventually what other paths did you get? Did you get to start applying to be an astronaut? Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, well, that was the story that that I was telling you there. So I -- Host: Yeah, yeah. Ginger Kerrick: In order to be -- to apply to be an astronaut, you need a master's degree and one year of technical experience. Host: Oh, okay. Ginger Kerrick: So when I hired on at NASA in '94 -- in May of '94 -- by May of '95 I had my one-year and I filled out that app. And it just so happened they were having a selection that year. So when he told me to change jobs to get some different experience, I went ahead and did that. And I think I was 26 years old. And I thought, "All right, I'm going to get the coolest rejection letter ever on NASA letterhead to go with my one that I got when I was 11." But it didn't what that way. So I got a call right around, you know, October, November I guess from Duane and he said, "Hey, we received 3,000 applications this year and we are choosing to interview 120. And you are one of the 120." Host: Whoa. Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, that was my thought exactly. So, you know, I just about lost my mind. So I was ready. Because back then the interviews were one week long. So the actual roundtable talk part of the interview was only an hour. But they had physical tests, psychological tests, and the medical tests that you had to go through for the whole week. But I was ready to rock those out. And I wound up getting -- my interview was scheduled in December of 1995. Host: Okay. And then what happened? Ginger Kerrick: Well, during the interview they did a scan of my lower abdomen with an ultrasound, saw something, asked me to come back in for an X-ray, saw something and asked me to come back in for a CT scan. And on the CT scan was clear that there were six white dots on one side and seven white dots on another. I had kidney stones. And I'd never passed one. So I didn't even know that I had them. But what I did know is that year NASA was instituting a new medical disqualification that if your body showed the capacity to form a single stone, that is lifetime disqualification from consideration as an astronaut. Host: Wow. So just the medical -- you know, you had the qualifications, but this medical thing stopped it in its tracks. Wow. So then what happened? I'm sure you were devastated? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, I was. Yeah, I was dead inside. I don't remember the last day of that interview week. I remember being at home crying all day Saturday, all day Sunday. I didn't go to work Monday, and I was contemplating quitting NASA altogether. And Duane Ross called me Monday afternoon and he's like, "Hey, I heard you weren't at work today." I'm like, "Man, that whole big brother thing really does -- he doesn't even work in my building. How does he know?" They know everything But so he called me and I said, "No, I couldn't bring myself to go to work." And he says, "How are you?" And I lost it. I'm like, "How do you think I am? My life is over." And so it's just this horrible response that was coming out of my mouth. And I -- like, I took a step back and I heard myself and I thought, "Golly, what a wuss. That is not me." When I was 11, I mentioned my dad died. I watched him die right in front of me. Host: Oh. Ginger Kerrick: And so I'm thinking, "Okay, this little 11-year-old girl that watched her die right in front of her and picked herself up and managed to get to where she is today is now going to be defeated by a few kidney stones?" I'm like, "Oh, no, I'm not having that." So we hung up the phone. And I'm like, "All right, this is one of the worst things that's ever happened to me. I will acknowledge that. But like when my dad died, there's nothing I can do about it." And I did ask. I'm like, "Hey, my mom has two perfectly good kidneys. We can swap these bad boys out and pretend." Yeah, and they're like, "No, you weirdo." So I just said there's absolutely nothing I can do. So I have to get past this. And at the time I was teaching astronauts. And I thought, "Wow, this is a cool job." So maybe -- maybe I am 26 years old and I don't know everything. And maybe there are other job opportunities here that are going to be equally as rewarding or more rewarding than I ever imagined. But to get myself out of that bed, I said, "All right, I'm going to go to work and I'm going to say that I can't go into space. But as an instructor for the astronauts I can teach the astronauts a little something." So in an indirect way a little part of me would be going up with each one of those. Okay. Yeah, I can sell that to myself. And I said I sell it to myself because I woke up every morning crying and wanting to quit. So I'd sell myself this story and I would go to work. Then I'd start having a little bit of fun. And then I'm like, "Oh wait, I'm supposed to be depressed. I can't have fun." But as the days went on or weeks went on, I didn't have to sell that story to myself anymore. And I really started enjoying it and being open to new opportunities. And it was after that mental mind shift that all kind of crazy opportunities came -- you know, were offered to me here at NASA. Host: Unbelievable. Because the history, you know, your whole goal was defined by this astronaut thing. So understanding that, you kind of have to redefine where can I find meaning? And then you kind of described this process, that there are other places that I can find meaning in NASA and make a contribution -- a good contribution -- to human space flight. And that's where you -- you know, some of the stuff you did, like, what was the -- you were the first non-astronaut CAPCOM? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, yeah. So that was kind of crazy. Host: Yeah. Ginger Kerrick: So right after, you know, these interviews, about a year later I was assigned to the Expedition 1 crew. So the first crew that would fly onboard the International Space Station. And I was assigned as a Russian training integration instructor was the title, but big picture is they were getting the majority of their training in Russia, about 70% and about 30% in the US. And because I was assigned directly to them, I went wherever they went. So if they were in the service module as it was being constructed in the plant at -- in the facility in Moscow, I was in the service module with them. If they were in Florida as the laboratory module was being constructed, I was in the laboratory module with them. Every class that they took, I was there. So in a weird way I got my astronaut training. And so I did that for four years. And then after they flew and I came back here and moved back to the US -- I was really living in Russia for the majority of those four years -- I talked to Randy Stone, who was head of the missions operations directorate at the time. And I'm like, "I have a very unique skillset now and I want to be able to contribute. Where do you think would be the best spot for me? I'm looking at existing jobs and it doesn't seem like it maximizes it." And so I kind of leaned back in his chair and he's like, "Well, have you ever thought about being a CAPCOM?" You know, short for capsule communicator, the people that talk to the crew. I'm like, "Well, those are always astronauts. And so hello, I can't be an astronaut." And he says, "Well, do you know why they've always been astronauts?" And I had no. And he says, "Well, the people in space always wanted to talk to somebody on the ground that had flown in that vehicle, that had -- knew, you know, the tasks that they were assigned inside and out, understood the way the ground team were supposed to operate." He's like, "Look what would you have been doing for the last four years. Have there been any other astronauts there with you that know the vehicle? This is the first crew that's flown." He says, "So there isn't anybody like that. But you have a leg up on that." And I thought well, okay. Sow called the chief of the astronaut office. And they're like, "Oh yeah, Ginger, sure. Yeah. We'll give it a try." So he's like, "All right, if you don't screw this up, maybe other people can do it, too." And I'm like, "Copy, don't screw it up." And so my first day I remember being so nervous because the flight director on console that day was Norm Knight. And he's now -- he was chief of the flight director office. And he looked exactly like Gene Kranz with the haircut and everything. And he was pretty scary. And he was, like, "What are you doing in here?" I thought, "Oh my goodness." But I won him over that day with both the familiarity I had with the crew. And there was -- I think we had a Freon leak in the Russian air-conditioner that week. And I'm like, "Oh, yeah, here's a copy of the air-conditioner, and here's what it looks like, and he's where it's leaking. And all the Freon could leak out and it's still safe for the crew because it would be below these limits." And he's like, "Who are you?" But it was great. And I loved that job. I love that job so much. And I would never have thought that I could do that. Host: Wow. So now you're in this leadership role, talk about the transition from this operational role to now you're starting to be a part of the leadership of flight operations? Ginger Kerrick: Yeah. So four years as a CAPCOM, I sat next to the flight director. And I thought, "Huh, they're in charge. I could be in charge." And people -- that's about as much thought as went into it. And people were telling me, "No, you can't be a flight director because no CAPCOM has ever been a flight director." And I'm like, "Well, heck, you know." Host: No astronaut has ever been a CAPCOM. Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, no astronaut's ever been a CAPCOM. So I'm going to roll the dice. So I applied and I got selected as a flight director in 2005. So, the leader of Mission Control. And the ironic thing in being selected in that position is if I'd have been picked as an astronaut, I would have been one of over 550 people to fly in space because that's how many we've had fly in space so far. But to date, there's only been 92 flight directors in the history of NASA. And at the time I was number 60. So I had actually joined a more elite leadership team than I had envisioned for myself. But I loved working that position. I was also the first female Hispanic flight director ever selected. Host: Wow. Ginger Kerrick: And I loved being in charge. I loved having that responsibility of the lives of the crew, the integrity of the spacecraft, and execution of the mission. I loved having that on my shoulders. And did I that for eight years. And I worked both Space Station and Shuttle. And I could have done that job forever. But my boss came in and pretended to ask me a question, but it was really a reassignment in disguise. And he asked me to join his management team with the Mission Operations Directorate, initially managing the budget, the people. So budget of roughly $200 million and about 1,100 people that contributed to the International Space Station success in the Mission Operations Directorate. Host: Do you think it's a place that maybe you not necessarily envisioned your ending up but you're happy in? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, each job is, like, the coolest job ever. Every time I get a new job, I'm like, "All right, all right, nothing could be better. Oh, wait, okay, now I have a new job. And this actually is better than the last job." So that job was awesome. The flight director -- the CAPCOM was awesome, flight director was awesome. And then I did this other management job for four years and that was awesome. And then a year and a half ago, my boss again -- I should get nervous when he comes around -- asked me to start up a brand new division in the Flight Operations Directorate, which we hadn't stood up a new division in a number of years. But with us returning to launching and landing vehicles from US soil, we realized we were a little bit behind the power curve in ensuring that everything we needed to ensure the safety of the crew members associated with those tenacities was in place. So we formed a brand new division from scratch. He wanted it up and running in 45 days. And I got it up and running in 45 days. And we're about a year and a half old now. And now this is the coolest position ever [Laughs]. Because I get to manage 160 of the brightest minds. I have -- I'm responsible for operation safety of all these brand new vehicles that they're building, the training on the vehicles, the hardware inspections, the software testing. And I just -- I love it. Host: Wow. I just -- I really appreciate the fact that despite setbacks and despite not meeting these original goals that you set for yourself earlier in your life, you can still find meaning and you can still contribute in a big way that makes you happy. Ginger Kerrick: Yeah, I think a lot of people just fall into the pit of despair. Host: Yeah. Ginger Kerrick: And while it's fine to spend a few days in there, mourning the loss of a dream you had, you need to pick yourself back out of that. Because there are -- you know, we don't always they everything. There are other things that we have not considered that could bring us great joy. And I am a living example of that. Host: [Laughs] Well, I wanted to end. So the theme of this episode is Nevertheless She Persisted. And it has to do with this idea that maybe there are setbacks, maybe there are obstacles along the way. Do you have a piece of advice that you want to give maybe to women trying to do exactly what you were doing, maybe achieve a goal and trying to push through despite many setbacks? Some kind of piece advice that we can walk away with? Ginger Kerrick: Oh, sure. You know, for each case that you're confronted with, ask yourself if there is something under your control that you can do. So, like, with the examples that I had with my dad dying, no. With the kidney stones, no. But there were other encounters that I had, you know, a teacher who told me that little girls shouldn't study science when I was 13. And I could have just said, "Oh, okay," and just withdrawn from the class instead of, you know, "What is your problem, dude? I love science." And so there are times in your life. So you just need to ask yourself that question. And if there is do, do it and get creative. Sometimes there won't be a process for it, like, there wasn't a process for how I could turn my summer internship into a permanent co-op position but invent one. And if you're passionate enough about what you want to do, you will find that. But if you find yourself in a case where there is nothing you can do, allow yourself that time to mourn that loss. That is human nature. That is normal. But don't get stuck there. So whether it's asking for help from friends or family, pick yourself back up and dust yourself off and look around and see if there is something else out there for you. Host: Wow. Your passion for what you do is extremely inspiring. Thank you so much for coming on today. Ginger Kerrick: Thank you very much. [Spacey Sound Effects] Host: And that was Ginger Kerrick talking about her journey to her current role as the leader in -- as one of the leaders, actually, in Flight Operations. So Jenny, who do we have next? Host: So up next we have Julie Kramer White. She is the deputy director of engineering for all of Johnson Space Center. Host: Okay getting a little dizzy flying through these wormholes. But let's do it anyway. Producer Alex, bring us through. [Spacey Sound Effects] Host: Julie, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today to talk about your story and kind of how you are now one of the leaders in engineering, right? Julie Kramer White: Yeah, it's my pleasure. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Host: Fantastic. I kind of want us to start with your inspiration for getting into this field, STEM. You said that you didn't really have a lot of, I guess, engineering influencers, but you ended up in engineering. Julie Kramer White: Right, yeah. I grew up in the Midwest, I grew up in Indiana, didn't have any engineers in my family but sort of a product of a 1970s push to put -- match up women who had aptitudes in science and math to STEM-type fields. And of course we didn't call it that then, but that's essentially what it was. And so I was very good at math and definitely had a mechanical aptitude. And the teachers saw that, and they started saying things to me like, "Gee, you ought to go into medicine or you ought to go into engineering." This thing engineering that I didn't really know too much about what it was. Medicine didn't really interest me, too glory. So I decided to start to understand more about engineering. Luckily, growing up in Indiana, Purdue was a local school for me, it was a local option. So in-state tuition, couple hours from home, you know, mom would do my laundry on the weekends. So I wound up pursuing an engineering degree at Purdue kind of not really knowing what that really meant in terms of connection to NASA. But I knew really early from high school that if I was going to go into engineering, I wasn't just going to go into engineering, I wanted to go work at NASA. Shuttle was starting, you know, in the 80s, and so I saw Shuttle program start up. And I thought, "Wow, what a great way to do engineering would be to work at NASA." So that's what I had decided when I was in high school, what I wanted to do. Host: So I guess it was watching some of the shuttle launches, and were you, I guess, a Trekkie at that point? Julie Kramer White: I was, I was definitely a Trekkie. I was really hard-core, old-school Star Trek. Not this new stuff. You know, the old-school Star Trek. Scotty, big fan, you know, James Doohan fan club. Yeah, I was that nerdy. And so, yeah, I was a big Star Trek fan. Host: Cool. So I guess these sequence of events, this influence in the Shuttle mission, and the Trekkie-ness, and then going to Purdue, which ultimately had a great NASA connection, kind of let you to, I guess -- when did you start thinking, "Okay, now is the time to apply to NASA"? Julie Kramer White: Yeah, it did. It sort of stumbled in actually. It's kind of embarrassing to admit now in retrospect, but kind of growing up in Indiana I really didn't appreciate the connection that Purdue had to NASA. I mean, obviously I went to Purdue, I studied in Grissom Hall. That probably should have clued me in, you know, given the first man that walked on the moon was from Purdue. You know, those things, those connections I probably should have made. But I really didn't go at it that way. I mean, I wound up at Purdue through a combination of circumstances. Really glad I did. Wound up in the co-op program because when I started expressing to my professors an interest in working at NASA, they said, "Hey, you got to check out this co-op thing. You'll love it," right? So you go off and you work some, and then you get school work. And so I wound up hiring in -- at Purdue you do five co-op terms. So I hired in as a freshman. And so came here as a co-op literally having had only three semesters of college, basically my first couple classes in calculus and my first class in physics, and they sent me to NASA. Host: Okay, now build a spaceship. Julie Kramer White: Yeah, so build a spaceship. So that certainly led to its own combination of interesting circumstances. But when they assigned me to my first assignment -- and it was a lot of old Apollo engineers that worked in the group that I was in. And one of my favorite stories is the first office they assigned me to, it was three Apollo guys. And one of them, his favorite thing to do to co-ops -- I know now -- is to drop a bunch of differential equation books on their desk and tell them this is what they need to know to work at NASA. Now, of course, I've had two classes in calculus, so it was horrible, horrible, horrible. I went home and I cried. I did cry. I went home and called my mom. It was just awful. Now, you know, so -- now it's fine, but it was a little bit shocking at first. Host: Yeah, that will definitely make your eyes go wide. You're like, "Oh, man, I'm so not ready." Julie Kramer White: I'm so not ready. I am so not ready for this. Right? So a lot of it was just not being intimidated really. And I think I look back on a lot of my experiences early on in NASA -- and I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about them -- but that was a lot of it was just not being intimidated, right? You couldn't be intimidated, you could never let somebody's rank or their age or things kind of throw you off point. You had to stick with it so. Host: Did you have a mentor that sort of helped you along or was it like this was like an internal decision, like, "I'm not going to let this bother me"? Julie Kramer White: Yeah, absolutely. I definitely had several mentors, but probably my biggest early career mentor was a guy name Stan Weiss. He was a structural engineer, he worked Apollo, he had worked the lander, and then had come into the early shuttle Orbiter program and was in Orbiter, subsystem manager in primary structure, which was what I would eventually become. I was his protege. I was told that I was number six, and that he'd been through five and so far they've all kind of cried and gone home. So I was sort of the, you know -- I was the sixth one. Host: He didn't tell you that on day one, did he? Julie Kramer White: Couldn't make a match. No, they told me that afterwards. They told me afterwards that it was a good thing that I had finally stuck because he was getting close to retirement and they couldn't find a good match. But I stayed with him for a couple years until he retired. Showed me the ropes you know, introduced me to all his connections, sort of a ready-made network, which is hugely important. I think one of the things we struggle with today with how lean the budgets are and how lean the staffing profiles are, it's hard to double up in a lot of these areas and put people in the kind of relationship that I had with Stan. But it's so fundamental because, I mean, basically when he retired, I inherited his network, right? So I started with a 52-year-old man's network at the age of 25. Host: Wow, okay. Julie Kramer White: So it was a pretty amazing step in terms of breadth of ability to talk to people and get information and influence decision-making. I really kind of picked up where he left off rather than having to start fresh on my own. So when I do a lot of my discussions with young folks, I talked to them, people say, "Hey, your mentors are important, developing these networks are important." You can't even imagine at 25 how important that is because it gives you just a massive, massive leg up in terms of your ability to solve problems and gather information and perspectives. Host: But you had to put the work in as a co-op, too. You had to have the drive, I guess, to follow your mentor and say, "Yes, these are relationships that I want to maintain even while he's still here." And then look how it turned out, now he's retiring and you have this network of people. Julie Kramer White: You bet. And by the time he retired, I probably had about a -- probably almost a decade of works across the various organization. I was mostly in structural mechanics division, but I have spent time in the machine shops and I had spent time in all the branches of ES. So I had worked all different aspects of the product line that our structural mechanic division supports, so I had done thermal and I had done materials and failure analysis, I had done loads and dynamics, I'd done stress, I'd done mechanical design and test. So I'd done all those things and then spent, you know, again, several years with him before he retired. You kind of have to have -- you have to have the domain knowledge first. Host: Right. Julie Kramer White: Right? And then be able to have the network to apply that domain knowledge, right? Host: Yeah. Julie Kramer White: Right, so -- Host: So how do these -- how do these elements sort of come together to really test your knowledge in order to eventually move up the ladder? Julie Kramer White: Right. So there have been a couple sort of seminal events in my career. Once I had worked my way up through instruction mechanics division and was ready to start working out broader, I sort of joke that all failures are ultimately structures and materials related other than software. So -- and so as a structures and material guy with a background and a failure analysis background, I did a lot of cross-division work. I worked with our power and propulsion group in engine failures. I worked with our mechanical systems folks in mechanism failures. And so I got a chance to kind of branch out and apply some of these things mostly on Orbiter. Host: Okay. Julie Kramer White: But on the Shuttle Orbiter. But then eventually in 2003 I was in the vehicle engineering office, and 2003 is when we had the Columbia accident. And I just happened to be in the right place at the right time as sort of -- it's odd to attribute that sort of saying to something that's such a tragedy for the NASA family. But for me professionally I was able to bring together my background in structures because I'd grown up with the Orbiters. I knew each one sort of intimately from a structures perspective. I could have told you by looking at the primary structure which Orbiter you were talking about and the history about that particular vehicle. Host: Wow. Julie Kramer White: So I had a very strong background in the primary structure, specifically in the wings, which were one of my areas of the vehicle. I had a failure analysis background. I had a materials background. I'd done a lot of accident investigation-type work. So I was familiar with a lot of the technique and just sort of happened to be in the right place at the time. Columbia happened, I came home to JSC and was sent immediately into the field to go do debris recovery. Because of my background with the primary structure, I was able to work with the USA and the Boeing representatives to gather together the key debris to be sent on to Barksdale and then down to Kennedy for the investigation. Then I returned to JSC and happened to be in the mission management team meetings related to Columbia and found that as people were trying to describe what was going on with Columbia, they just didn't really have a very good knowledge of what was happening at KSC and didn't have any knowledge of the debris. So they would describe scenarios that basically were physically impossible because the debris existed and was on the grid -- what we called the grid, where we laid out the debris down at KSC. So through the process of those meetings where I was able to describe to them why scenarios were not valid because of the physical evidence that was available to us, management recognized there was this missing link between what was going on at KSC and what was going on at JSC. And so I was sent to KSC to help make that linkage. Host: Yeah. Julie Kramer White: And eventually became the lead for the failure analysis side of the debris reconstruction. So I had a team of greybeards, old NASA and Rockwell guys that worked with me to synthesize thousands of failure analysis reports that were coming in from the failure analysis team, from the materials engineers, and the labs all across the agency, and then some academic labs outside the agency -- to bring that data in, synthesize it, and then corroborate theories about what had happened or did not happen based on the physical evidence. So we were that linkage for the MMT and then ultimately for the [inaudible] to help interpret what was going on with the debris. So it's just to me it's always amazing when I look at that scenario, I would have never thought as I established my professional career, and worked in primary structure, and had an interest in failure analysis, and had an interest in accident investigation, and had this MMP background, and just happened to be the wing guy/gal, right, that when this thing happened and I happened to be in the right place at the right time to be able to say, "Hey, I have a skillset that's kind of unique -- a unique combination of these things, and I can really help you move forward what you need to do in the investigation." And management just basically plucked me up and put me down at KSC and said, "Okay, help us figure out what happened." Host: Yeah. That's fantastic. All this work that you're putting into building yourself and kind of moving along in your professional career leads to this movement where they need exactly you. Because you have that background knowledge and you have the connection that they're missing. That's fantastic. That must have opened up a bunch of doors and led to where you are right now. Julie Kramer White: Yeah, absolutely. I did wind up shortly after Columbia taking a brief break because I had my daughter. I happened to be pregnant during the Columbia investigation as well, which -- Host: Oh, wow. Julie Kramer White: -- I kept to myself because I didn't think they'd be real keen [Laughs] -- real keen on knowing that. So I did just kind of keep that one to myself. But showed back up at JSC seven months pregnant, which was kind of interesting for my boss. But anyway, then I took a leave of absence. But while I was on this leave of absence, I got a call that basically said, "Hey, as a byproduct of the Columbia investigation, we're standing up this thing called the NASA Engineering Safety Center where our goal is to be able to bring together these technical experts to offer sort of hired gun expertise into programs, not just manned space flight but all of NASA's high value programs and to offer a resource to the engineering teams and the programs that support those projects and be able to bring more resources and more engineering support." And so I went and did that. And I was there loads and dynamics what they call a TDT, sort of their lead in that discipline, technical discipline area. Built up a team at that time, helped stand up the NESC and built this team across the ten centers. Because the intent was that the teams would draw upon the best expertise from all ten centers. So I had to basically go cold call, you know? I had very good relationships with Marshall Space Flight Center based on previous experience and very good connections at Kennedy, the manned space flight centers. But I had virtually no exposure to the robotic centers or to the satellite centers, research and development. I did have a pretty good relationship with Langley because growing up in structures here at JSC we have a very sort of tight relationship with Langley. So those were good. But I mean, basically cold calling six other centers, going, "Hey, I'm this new guy at the NESC. And can I get some resources to go work these things?" And we built up these teams and then started taking these teams of people and really forging them into a team that has sort of common objectives and to be able to bring sort of the best attributes of each center. Because each center approaches things culturally and technically just a little bit different just based on well, hey, this is a human space flight center, this is a robotics center, this is a satellite or more of a research and development -- kind of how they grow up, they approach problems a little bit differently. So you're trying to harness sort of the best of all those ways of looking at things to get a better answer. But it causes some interesting conflicts, too, because the centers do think differently. So we worked our way through that whole process to sort of build these functioning -- highly functioning teams. And that was a great experience. I did that for about three years. And then that wound up providing the next opportunity was as Orion was being formulated -- it wasn't Orion at the time, it was CEV was being formulated -- the administrator at the time, Mike Griffin, had a very specific objective of it being supported by ten centers -- all ten centers, which required key leaders that had experience at all ten centers. And so NESC became one of the places where they looked for potential people to put into leadership positions. And when they were looking for the chief engineer, I'm absolutely 100% convinced -- you know, I never asked Mike if this was the case, but I'm absolutely 100% convinced that if I had not had the experience with all ten centers, I would never have gotten the Orion chief engineer job. Because even though I had a lot of the good technical background pieces of it, he really needed somebody who could make a collaborative environment with ten centers work since the engineering was being drawn from matrix at all the different centers. Host: Seems like you're working so hard towards -- I guess, going back to this point of kind of improving your career. And then all of a sudden there just comes this need for you, for specifically you and your background. Like, you're working with all ten centers. Hey, we need someone with an engineering background that has worked with all ten centers -- here you are. So how much do you think of it -- Julie Kramer White: Hey, I'm here. I could do that. Could I have that job? Yeah. Host: So how much do you think of it as persistence and hard work versus right place, right time? Julie Kramer White: Sure, sure. Well, I think it's a little bit of both, right? Host: Yeah. Julie Kramer White: Because you can always be at the right place at the right time, but if you don't have the qualifications, right, you're never the right choice, right? So first and foremost, absolutely what has to come is the qualifications, the engineering background or for whatever it is you're trying to be able to do. And then, you know, so that's where I think more the persistence part of it comes in. And sometimes it's really difficult because it's not like if you'd asked me at year number seven in my career, "Well, what exactly are you developing yourself towards, right?" To me, I was just taking one step right after the other, trying to do more challenging things, trying to broaden my own skills and sort of naturally with those, taking on each of those challenges, and persisting through different challenges, you sort of built this portfolio of experience that you could never really have anticipated, "Wow, okay, I'm going to show up at this point on the timeline and I'm going to be just the right person that can fill the need." But I think it does happen that way more often than people think. If you really prepare yourself, you know, that it tends to happen that way. Host: So if you had to leave our listeners with just a piece of advice to sort of get to whatever goal that you're trying to do. It sounds like this was -- it was a goal to just try to advance your career, I guess, would be the ultimate goal. What was the thing that was driving you along that way? Julie Kramer White: Right. So I think, you know, every -- I think every -- well, I won't say every engineer. I think a lot of engineers enter the engineering field sort of seeing a chief engineer function as sort of a pinnacle of that career. It's sort of recognized as wow, this is what I would like to be when I grow up. You know, some people aspire to program management, some people aspire to flight directors or astronauts. But sort of in the engineering field you kind of look at that job and you go, "Wow, if you're a chief engineer, somebody thinks you must know a lot about engineering, and a lot about systems engineering, and a lot about dealing with teams," which were all things I was interested in and had sort of worked on my career. So I was kind of climbing towards that -- climbing towards that end goal. And so just in the process, it can take just a lot of persistence and sticking with it. It's funny that you would say persistence because when I talk out in universities or even in grade schools, that's probably the thing I talk most to students about. I mean, I don't consider myself the world's best engineer. I mean, I'm a good engineer. I have a solid academic background. Purdue was great. I've got great life experience, but I have a ton of subject matter experts that worked with me on Orion and propped up every decision we made in Orion. I was never the best pyro guy, or the best structures guy, or the best engine guy, right? I had these a lot of really good experts, but I had great team skills, right, to be able to solicit from then, you know, the information they need, to be able to advocate for them. And so for me, to be a chief engineer was sort of to be able to exercise those aspects of the job, sort of the soft skills of the job. And so when I talk to people at the grade school, college level I say, "Hey, your fundamental expertise is absolutely important. That's where you've got to start. But these other soft skills, right, the teamwork, the being able to work in teams, being able to communicate," right? People talk in school about how important communication is, but it's really no joke, right? I think honestly the difference between people that wind up in leadership positions and people that wind up being subject matter experts, there are places for both. But when you're the one that's advocating for that broader team, you know, your communication skills are absolutely imperative. Because if you screw up on -- there's somebody else that's feeding you all the right technical data, right? I mean, that's their job is they're feeding you the right lines. But if you screw it up in the delivery, right, it can really make a difference on how the decision is made. So I always felt like it was my job to make sure I could extract that data and synthesize it, right, and be able to provide it in a way that program managers could make decisions. So there's just so many different aspects of the job and so much of it has to do with just flat-out persistence, right? Just flat-out you don't give up, you just keep at it, and you keep at it, and you keep it, and you keep at it. And that's sort of -- in Orion that was always a buzzword, right? We've been at it for a while. I know, you know? So I -- I mean, I was there for 11 and a half years actually, was recently moved up into the engineering directorate management. So now I'm deputy director up in engineering. But I was in Orion for 11 years -- that's persistence right there [Laughs]. So but watched Orion go through really hard times, through a cancellation sort of [inaudible] quote unquote "cancellation" and then a resurrection as MPCV. And then through the flight test and getting ready now for the second flight test. So takes a lot of persistence to hang in with some of these long-term human space flight programs that can last decades. So yeah. Host: Yeah, I can definitely sense your passion for it, though. And that's much appreciated. It's really inspiring to hear your story. So Julie, thank you so much for coming on -- Julie Kramer White: Great, my pleasure. Host: -- and just telling your story. Julie Kramer White: Thank you. [Spacey Sound Effect] Host: And that was Julie Kramer White talking about her journey through her current role as a leader in engineering. So one more to go, Jenny. Who do we have as our last guest? Jenny Turner: All right. Last but not least is Cathy Koerner. She's the director of Human Health and Performance. And as a special shout out from WELL, she was our -- one of our executive sponsors for the past two years. So we're really excited to hear her story. Host: Oh, very cool. All right. Let's go to that talk with Cathy. Alex, let's do the thing. [Spacey Sound Effect] Host: Cathy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Cathy Koerner: Glad to be here. Host: Let's start from the very beginning, where does your story begin? Cathy Koerner: So -- goodness. So when I was in school, I was really good in science and math. And so my father strongly encouraged me to get into engineering. And so I went to the University of Illinois. I ended up an aeronautical and astronautical engineering degree. Did undergrad work. And then I had a professor who said, "Hey, you should consider grad school." I did grad school, got a master's degree. And somewhere along the way space became something that I was very interested in. And I got an opportunity to intern with a company to learn more about space stuff and to do some work for them. And eventually ended up working at JPL. I actually started my sort of -- sort of NASA career because they're a NASA center at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California doing lunar Mars missions. Was there for a little while and then came here to the Johnson Space Center and was hired right away into Mission Operations. So what is now Flight Operations originally when I got here was called Mission Operations. I did Shuttle flight control for many years. I was a propulsion expert -- that's my background. And then after spending several years doing that and working my way through certifications and working lots and lots and lots of Shuttle missions -- over 50 of them, actually, in my career -- I ended up with the privilege of becoming a flight director. I spent seven years as a flight director for both Space Shuttle and International Space Station, got my opportunity to do both of those when the Columbia accident happened. My portion of the investigation was completed as a Shuttle flight director. And I had the opportunity to train and become an ISS flight director. So I got to do that as well. So I have been here at the Johnson Space Center for over 25 years. Most of my background is in operations. I kind of worked my way up through missions operations organization and was on staff to the director. And then my husband became my boss. And they said, "How can we help you find a new job, Mrs. Koerner?" [ Laughter ] Which actually was really great. And it's one of the things that I like to encourage people about: If you get in a situation where you have to step out of your comfort zone because mission operations clearly was my comfort zone, take advantage of that and try something new and different. Which is what I did, I ended up going to the Space Station program office. And I worked in the Space Station program office for seven years in varying roles and having different responsibilities, most of them having to do with the International Space Station as a vehicle or with the visiting vehicles that approach the International Space Station. And then after doing that for a while, I was really traveling lot and I had some kids that were at an age where they were very active. And I thought, I don't want to deal with this job where I have to travel every other week. I want to be more available to my children. And so I was looking for other opportunities. And someone tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Hey, you should consider Human Health and Performance directorate. They're looking for a deputy director, maybe you should go there." Which is, again, completely outside of my comfort zone because I don't have any background in anything medical. And my perception of the organization was that it was strictly a medical organization. And I was wrong about that perception. The Human Health and Performance directorate does medical, but it also does human performance-related activities, which has an engineering flare to it. So I was fortunate enough to have been selected as the deputy and then a year later to be given the opportunity to be the director of the Human Health and Performance directorate. Host: How about that? So I mean, if you were being considered as deputy directory for HHP, you, when you said you were in the International Space Station program kind of moving around, that's when you started keep of moving up. Because obviously to be considered as a deputy director, you have to have some level of management experience. Cathy Koerner: I did, yeah. I -- when I went to the space station program, and actually, if you looked at it from an [inaudible] perspective, it actually looked like I took a couple steps backwards because I went from being on a director staff to being a deputy division chief, so to speak. So down several layers in the organization or in a different organization. But that really gave me the opportunity to rely on different skills, on my management skills and my leadership skills. It gave me an opportunity to go back and to be a supervisor and to help develop other people. And I really get a lot of joy out of doing that for people. I enjoy developing individuals, helping them reach their goals. I get tremendous joy from just seeing them be successful. And so the opportunities that I had in the Space Station program really set me up for being at a direct level and on senior staff here at the Johnson Space Center, mostly base it gave me both supervisory experience but also budget experience in dealing with the varying international players that we have now with the International Space Station. And really, with anything we do in space exploration these days, it's going to have to have international partnerships. So I really learned a lot in those years. Host: Do you find that managing people is something that you just found you were kind of naturally good at? You just kind of got thrown into the world and you were like, "Huh, this is something that I really like." Or was it something that maybe through your engineering experience you sort of maybe learned from mentors or developed those skills throughout that process? Cathy Koerner: I think it was probably a little bit of both. I had some amazing mentors throughout my career who really told me in no uncertain terms that the limitations that I put on myself was really self-imposed, right? That I really could do things that were outside of my comfort zone, that I had skillsets that weren't necessarily just technical. And that's something when you grow up in a technical organization is really hard to see sometimes in yourself. And then I, you know, poured a lot into the people around me in learning from them, and that paid off when it came to trying to figure out what I liked and what resonated with me. Host: It's important to sort of go for things that you think are something that interests you, too, but also as this level of sort of developing your skills, I'm finding myself doing it right now. Because it's so easy to kind of fall back and say, "I like this. This is my comfort zone. I'm very knowledgeable in this specific area. If I go outside, you know, it's going to make me uncomfortable and I'm going to feel weird. And it's not my thing." So how do you push yourself? Cathy Koerner: It's actually harder for women than it is for men, actually. There's studies that show that for a woman to apply for a position, for instance, they have to feel like they have 90% or more percent of the skills required to execute that position. Whereas men, if they are in the 20% to 30% range, they think, "Yeah, I could probably stretch and maybe do that." And they're more likely to actually apply for jobs than women are. And so one of the things I like to encourage women to do, especially the ones that I mentor, is to really try something new and different. You don't know necessarily what your capabilities are outside of your comfort zone. None of us really have a good self-awareness when it comes to that. And you might find that doing something different actually help

F*** Yeah Fluid Dynamics: Lessons from online outreach

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sharp, Nicole

2013-11-01

The fluid dynamics education outreach blog FYFD features photos, videos, and research along with concise, accessible explanations of phenomena every weekday. Over the past three years, the blog has attracted an audience of roughly 200,000 online followers. Reader survey results indicate that over half of the blog's audience works or studies in non-fluids fields. Twenty-nine percent of all survey respondents indicate that FYFD has been a positive influence on their desire to pursue fluid dynamics in their education or career. Of these positively influenced readers, over two-thirds have high-school or undergraduate-level education, indicating a significant audience of potential future fluid dynamicists. This talk will utilize a mixture of reader metrics, web analytics, and anecdotal evidence to discuss what makes science outreach successful and how we, as a community, can benefit from promoting fluid dynamics to a wider audience. http://tinyurl.com/azjjgj2

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Ep42 The Space Launch System Part.2(2)

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-04-27

Production Transcript for Ep42 The Space Launch System Part.2.mp3 Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 42: The Space Launch System, Part 2. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So in this podcast, we bring in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, and astronauts -- all to let you know the coolest information about what's going on right here at NASA. So today, we're talking about the most powerful rocket since the Saturn V moon rocket, NASA's Space Launch System. We've got two guests from the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama here with us today to tell us about the rocket, the payloads it can carry, and where it will go. Spoiler alert: It will bring people, big stuff, and little stuff all farther than we've ever gone before. See, I did it again. You had a second chance for Part 2, and you blew it, Gary. If you're slightly confused, it's because this is Part 2 of our two-part episode on NASA's Space Launch System. There's still some good stuff in here, but if you want the full story, just go back and listen to Part 1. So continuing our conversation with us today are David Smith and Paul Bookout. David is the Vice President for Advanced Programs and Victory Solutions in Huntsville, Alabama. He has a long career in aerospace engineering and is a subject matter expert on rocket architecture and how payloads will fit into the rocket. He wrote the SLS Mission Planner's Guide, which gives payload developers a general idea of the capabilities of the rocket and some technical specifications so they can determine how their payloads might fit inside. He looks after the big payloads. Our other guest today is Dr. Paul Bookout, EM1 Secondary Payloads Integration Manager, who manages the integration of five CubeSats in the giant rocket as well the avionics that will control the deployment of all 13 small satellite payloads on the first mission of SLS and Orion called Exploration Mission 1, EM1. He spends his time managing the little payloads, not much bigger than a shoebox, on a skyscraper-sized rocket. So we're going to talk about just how powerful this monster rocket is, its unique capabilities, what it'll be used for, where it is in its development, its first mission with the Orion crew vehicle, and then look ahead to the future to the Moon, to Mars, and throughout the solar system. In this particular episode, we talk a lot about propulsion on this rocket, especially comparing solid and liquid fuel for the rockets. So at a very high level, the key differences are cost and control. Solid rocket fuel systems are generally simpler in design, cost effective, and they produce a large amount of thrust. But once the fuel is ignited, you can't really turn it off. Liquid fuel systems provide more flexibility. You can regulate the thrust through system throttle settings, but liquid fuel systems can be more costly. Very smart engineers have assessed the best way to use these two fuels and, for the SLS, they've come up with a combined design of solid and liquid fuel system. Solid fuel boosters and liquid fuel, the main engines to work in tandem to get you off the ground and moving fat, and then liquid fuel carries, or the liquid fuel engines will carry you where you need to go. So we're go for launch with Mr. David Smith and Dr. Paul Bookout for the Space Launch System program, T minus 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, and liftoff of Episode 42 of Houston We Have a Podcast. Boom, nailed it. [ Music ] Okay. Paul and David, thanks for sticking around. This is going to be Part 2. We're sort of continuing our conversation, and we were talking a little bit during this I guess intermission, but one of the main things that we forgot to touch on was it takes eight minutes to do the first part of this launch. That's the solid rocket boosters and the core stage-- David Smith: Ignition to disposal of those stages. Host: Yes. Yeah, but I guess up to this point, all you need is some sort of injection burn, and you can pretty much go anywhere in the solar system. Is that right? David Smith: That's right. >> So it just depend, you just define what kind of injection burn, and you can go anywhere. David Smith: Well, it's the injection burn, and then the characteristic energy, which is the acceleration to get to that location. You know, it's a curve, so-- Host: Yeah. David Smith: If you go farther out, the less mass you can bring with that injection burn. So it is, it's the timing of the injection burn and the trajectory. But also, the farther away you go in the solar system, obviously, the less mass you can carry. So that's all kind of combined together. Host: That's right. And so for EM1, the injection burn is going to be translunar, right? David Smith: Correct. Host: But you can also do Mars injection burn, or Jupiter injection burn, or, like, anything after this eight minutes, it's just, you can just define it? David Smith: That's right. Yep. Host: So that's really the main thing about this vehicle is after eight minutes, you're ready to go wherever you want, and the fact that it's human rated, and the fact that you can bring really large payloads, right. I guess that, we'll start off with that. So we're building this rocket to pretty much go anywhere, but what are the sorts of missions we're looking at for the future for SLS? David Smith: Yeah, the first missions that are being considered are translunar and perhaps making something that has a, kind of a complicated acronym, LOP-G, Lunar Orbiting Platform/Gateway. What it really is is like a service plaza on a toll road. So think of Saturn V as the rocket that went out and surveyed everything and, you know, there were no roads, and it kind of established these, you know, these paths to go to the Moon, okay. Now, SLS is going to take that survey information and hopefully make this Lunar Orbiting Platform into a service plaza where, what do you get there? Well, you get a safe place for the crew. You can refuel landers that can go to the Moon. You can have a navigational way station. You can have a communication way station. You have a place for internationals to come by and make sure they got everything together before they go to the Moon. This gateway, in fact, gives you universal, total access to any spot on the lunar surface. Apollo is just equatorial. This station will give you access to any place on the Moon. So it has a lot of really great attributes, but it's a different kind of thing. Unlike the Space Station, which is purely science, this Lunar Orbiting Platform is probably going to be a lot more utilitarian and allow a lot more understanding and exploitation of the Moon and the lunar surface, which is, in fact, what we need that experience so that we can actually do the same thing for Mars. So it's three days away versus nine months away with Mars. So that, that's our first stage. It seems in the 2020's, we're going to be putting that together one piece at a time. So the first piece might be an EM2 mission that delivers a solar electric propulsion system that essentially is the way that this station keeps in its place. So it's just a little bit of impulse in this halo orbit around the Moon. You can stay there with very little power using a xenon solar electric propulsion system. The second part might be a habitation module. This isn't where the crew are going to, they're not going to live here full time. Again, it's a way station, so it's a place they can hang out, refresh themselves, get food, change clothing, who knows on their way to the Moon. Then, they're going to have an air lock that allows them to do servicing on perhaps landers and other kind of equipment that comes into that gateway. And then, also, a place for logistics modules to come to resupply this service plaza so that, for the long term, it can service people going to and from the Moon. So that's probably the first part, and that looks like that would be something that would be in the early 2020's, and that's where the current administration seems to be focusing us is on doing lunar first to be prepared for Mars later. Host: Okay. It's kind of like a small truck stop. David Smith: It is. David Smith: It is-- David Smith: Think of it as, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. And it should be kind of looked at that way as it's a way station to greater and better things, either the Moon or Mars. Host: Yeah. That's right. You can shower. You can, [laughs] you can service it. It's got a-- David Smith: Get your eggs and steak. Host: Yeah. David Smith: You know, get your car repaired. Refuel. Get some gas. Tow truck is even there to maybe save you if you have a probably on the Moon. So really, it's a good deal. It's kind of like a lighthouse and service plaza all put into one. Host: But not only will the SLS get us there. It's actually going to get the LOP-G there, right? It'll actually-- David Smith: It'll assemble it. David Smith: It'll assemble it. Host: In pieces. Now-- David Smith: Yeah. David Smith: If we were to do it the best way, instead of doing it in smaller pieces -- and by the way, it's going to do this just using the trunk section underneath the Orion. So the co-manifested payload is what these little elements of the station are going to be. If we were, if we could, it'd be best to just make one giant chunk and put in the, into a fairing, but the way I think the program is unfolding, to use crew to start with, is to bring the station in pieces that the crew can assemble at that location. Host: So going back to the previous episode, Episode 41 -- if you haven't listened to it, go back -- and that was the first part of our conversation, but going back to this co-manifested payload, we're talking about primary payloads, co manifested, secondary. What's the co manifested? David Smith: Yeah, the co manifested, again, is the ten-ton capability that is the trunk space underneath Orion that's going to fly on the Block 1B SLS. So in contrast, if you took off the Orion and its trunk space and put a large fairing on top, you get a primary payload that could be 40 tons the Moon. So it's ten tons the Moon is co manifested, or it's maybe 40 tons the Moon as a primary payload. And the secondary payloads are payloads of opportunity. They kind of fit in little, tiny spaces that are left over. They aren't filled up with other kinds of stuff. Host: And that's where Paul comes in-- Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: Right? [laughter] Paul Bookout: That's my world. Host: That's right. David Smith: So after Lunar Orbiting Platform-Gateway, one of the early missions that's been envisioned is taking a probe to the Europa, the moon, icy moon of Jupiter. What's so neat about this mission is that SLS, is we have to loft this payload and get it to Jupiter in two-and-a-half years, where a current ELV -- Atlas, Delta, even a Falcon 9 Heavy -- couldn't do that in more than seven years. So we're going to cut five years off a trip. Now, what does that mean? Well, one, it means that you're getting quicker returns to the science community. You're helping people not spend their whole career on one science mission. You have younger people come in, work on a mission, do it quicker. And if it costs $100 million a year to maintain a cadre of ground controllers watching this thing, think of the money that you're saving over time if you can eliminate five years of that mission. Plus, the risk of that hardware traveling through space. So this is a real enabler for Europa. In fact, SLS is the only vehicle that can bring it there in that kind of time. Host: Unbelievable. Is it a bigger payload because it's a, it's SLS, or is it just-- David Smith: Well-- Host: It gets it there faster? David Smith: In this case, Atlas could fly the same mass of payload, which is very large, by the way, but it would take over seven years. Host: I see. David Smith: So it had to take a whole bunch of gravity assists around the Earth and Venus to get it there where SLS can send it there directly. Now, to your point is the New Horizons mission, which was the mission to Pluto, I think it was 120-kilogram payload that was finally delivered there after like ten years. In that case, SLS couldn't get you there any faster, but it could double the payload to over 250 kilograms of delivered payload to Pluto. So it just depends on the trajectory and the position of the planets when you do this, on what value you have, but the fact you can do it quick is a unique attribute that only SLS can bring right now. Host: [laughs] Unbelievable what this rocket is capable of. And I kind of wanted to go back and kind of visit the rocket itself, where, the history of it. Where did we start with some, building some of these pieces, and kind of where are we now? So if we can just sort of start at the beginning, whenever SLS was proposed, and we're going to hammer in the first nail, I guess. It's a little bit more complicated than that, but where did this all begin? Paul Bookout: Yes. Of course, the primary design was based off of the shuttle heritage. You know, we're taking components that the shuttle used, the propulsion aspects of it -- the [inaudible] motors, the external tank, and the space shuttle main engines -- and utilizing, upgrading, making more powerful the, those components and assembling the core stage. So that's kind of where the history of where SLS is coming from. So we want to use that existing technology, again, upgrade it, make it better. Also, the manufacturing facilities that go into making these components are in existence, so we want to still utilize that, save money, save schedule to move forward with the SLS rocket. Host: Okay, and so it's kind of, that makes sense, right, because it's, you have, okay, this is a core stage that works. These are components of the shuttle that worked. Let's just sort of fit it and to meet these requirements of building a giant rocket that can take payloads anywhere in the solar system. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Host: And humans too. It's human rated, which is a huge component of this whole thing. Paul Bookout: Definitely. Host: So it's, where is it being built? Is it one location? Paul Bookout: No. Actually, overall, there's 44, over 44 states-- Host: Oh, wow. Paul Bookout: That different components are going to be, are being built in. So this is America's rocket. Host: Yeah. [laughs] Paul Bookout: So it's not just NASA's. It's being built all over. You know, there's more than 1000 contractors working on this, in addition, of course, into, in addition to NASA. The core stage, which is the prime or contractor is Boeing, they're building that in Michoud, which is outside of New Orleans. The engine prime is Aerojet Rocketdyne. They're being developed, or manufactured, or refurbished down at the Stennis Space Center. And then, when they're done, they'll be shipped to Michoud for integration with the core stage. And then, that core stage with the main engines would be sent back to Stennis for testing because Stennis is the primary testing facility for NASA-- Host: I see. Paul Bookout: For rockets. The boosters is the Orbital ATK. They're actually manufactured just north of Salt Lake City in Utah. And it's kind of ironic that the, it's very close to the Golden Spike, where the east and west railroads met when they were building the transcontinental railroad, was very close to that because the motor segments are used in the rail system to ship down to KSC from ATK, Orbital ATK out in Utah. Host: Oh, okay. All right. Paul Bookout: So-- Host: I like that. Paul Bookout: A little history there. [laughs] And the upper stage, of course, where, as Boeing ULA, which is a direct purchase from them for that. And that's being built in Decatur, Alabama. Host: Wow. All over the place is absolutely correct, so-- Paul Bookout: And again, those are just the primary elements. All the subsystems to that are spread out all over the United States. Host: So what is currently built, and then what's on the ticket to be built? David Smith: Well, right now, the core has been built three times so far. The weld confidence article to make sure that friction stir welding is appropriate because it's the world's tallest, biggest weld fixture-- Host: Oh, wow. David Smith: Down at Michoud, so we had to test that first. Then, they're building test articles. And then, the flight hardware. The test articles right now are up at Marshall, so there's this new barge -- actually, it's the same barge they used for shuttle Pegasus. They had to make it a lot longer, so they cut out the middle and put in a new middle section. And that just shipped up, the core section up to Marshall, where it's going under, undergoing static testing. The engine section's already been completed. The testing of that's been completed. And the intertank, the sections between the hydrogen and oxygen tank, has just arrived at Marshall Space Flight Center for testing. The hydrogen and the oxygen tanks will arrive later this year for testing at Marshall too, all for static testing, where they're put under a load to simulate their launch conditions. So this is the largest structural testing campaign since shuttle in the 1970's, and, you know, since this is probably a 50-year rocket, this is really laying the foundation for that kind of generational spacecraft capability that we're building for the Moon and beyond. The upper stage, the exploration upper stage, the NASA one is currently being worked on in design phase, but the ICPS that Paul talked about earlier, the interim cryogenic propulsion stage, is finished and down, already been tested and shipped down to KSC. The engines, the new engine controllers are hot fire tested at Stennis already, and I might even hear a sound of that in a minute. And the boosters, as we talked about, were built in Utah but had full, two full-scale static firing tests at the Orbital ATK facility so far. Core stage and booster avionics testing are undergoing at Marshall right now in specialized, in a specialized, integrated avionics test lab. So the testing is going forward. It's really quite a test campaign. Working on EM1 right at the moment, but, in parallel, getting ready for, I'm sorry, Block 1 to start with, and, in parallel, working on Block 1B for the EM2 mission maybe in 2022. Host: So I'm, I want to understand the full scope. That's, there's a lot of different elements, a lot of different parts of the testing. What are some of the main things that you really want to test? It sounds like structure is one of those things, and how do you do that? How do you test the structure? David Smith: There's a new static test facility at Marshall that's been developed where you essentially set them up vertically, and then you put a load down on the stage, and you do it in many different angles to make sure you can understand not only is it going straight in flight, but if starts experiencing some kind of skew because of the engines, so it undergoes quite a bit of testing that way. That's obviously, the structural modes are the most important. And when we talk about human spaceflight hardware, what that really means for structure is that you test it to a factor of 1.4. So it means there's a 40% margin on the capability of that structure, which is not something that expendable launch vehicles have to worry about. So our rockets are generally a little heavier, a little stiffer, a little more capable, but we do that to provide more margin for the crew in case of emergency. So that's the biggest part of that structural test that's going on right now at Marshall. Host: That goes back to your point, Paul, about one of the main parts of testing this and building SLS is the fact that it is human rated and you have these extra constraints for making sure that safety is and redundancy is one of the primary concerns of building this rocket. Paul Bookout: Exactly, yes. Host: Unbelievable. So the other part is the engines too. You're actually firing the engines. And it's a hot fire test. What's that? David Smith: Well, that's, the shuttle engines are going, they're installed into a test [inaudible] at Stennis. They're put through the same paces as if they were being launched in the vehicle. And remember, some of these engines haven't been test fired in eight years, seven, eight years. Host: Right. David Smith: So it's real important to make sure that they're still, still have the quality that we are looking for at the same time they have a new engine controller. So the controller, the computer that runs these engines have been upgraded from the shuttle days. So it's the first time those two have been mated together. So real important testing. We have I think up to 15 of those engines in inventory, so they're going to be going through those until they, at, probably in the mid-'20's, replacing with a new build of the shuttle engine. So right now, we're still going through the old engines with the new controllers installed. Host: Actually, we do have some audio from that that I really want to play. It's, this is the hot fire test at Stennis, so if you're listening right now, be prepared because it's going to be very loud. [ Engine Sounds ] Host: So that was the hot fire test, and what, you're looking at what components? Are you looking at temperature? Are you looking at propulsion, efficiency? What are the main things that you really want to get out of this test? David Smith: Well, I think the biggest one is, how's the turbo machinery going? You know, if you have turbine blades going at like 3000 rpm and you're spitting out all that fuel at the same time, how is that working out? Is it meeting all the parameters? Is, like you said, that's the temperature? How does it run through its life cycle for that eight-minute burn? That's a long time to run an engine. Host: Yeah. David Smith: So especially, you know, before we launch, you know, the shuttle only had three of these engines firing. Now, we're going to have four of them. So again, that's a unique configuration. So making sure, [inaudible] how these engines will play together will be an important part of the test as well. Host: Did you ever get to see any of these tests in person -- structural tests, hot fire tests, anything like that? David Smith: Yes. Host: Is it really, really loud? David Smith: Well, the Stennis tests, you can get really close to it-- Host: Oh, really? David Smith: Because, you know, it has the flume that comes out the side. And you can get close to a cyclone fence. In fact, you can taste the exhaust because, you know, oxygen and hydrogen comes together and forms water. Host: Right. David Smith: So that, and you have the sprinkler system that's cooling it down. So you get both the sound, right, you get the visual of the flames, and then you get the taste. [laughs] So I don't think you can do that anywhere else. You certainly can't get the taste at Kennedy, so Stennis is really a remarkable opportunity when they do those test fires there. Host: Does it -- I'm imagining like a hot shower or something, just like really-- David Smith: Well, remember, Stennis is pretty humid because it's in Mississippi, so-- Host: Oh, yeah. David Smith: It's going to feel like a hot shower, but, [laughs] yeah. Host: Okay, so I'm, a curious thing -- how does a hot fire test taste? David Smith: Yeah, it has a taste to it. Host: [laughs] So what about the flight hardware for EM1? Where are some of those components? Paul Bookout: Right now, the Orion stage adapter, that's where the 13 CubeSets are going to be housed during launch on EM1. Host: Oh, yeah. Paul Bookout: It's currently at Marshall Space Flight Center. And at the end of, beginning, I'm sorry, of April, it's planned to ship down on the Super Guppy, which is a large carrier aircraft, down to KSC for processing. And once it's down there when we're about six months to launch, that's when the secondary payloads will be integrated into that before stacked on the vehicle. The interim cryogenic propulsion stage, of course, is finished. It was, again, up in Decatur and is already down at KSC doing other final preps on that. The launch vehicle stage adapter, which is being developed at Marshall by Lockheed Martin, they, the primary structure is complete, and they're doing spray foam insulation on the vehicle right now. Again, that's also to help with acoustics aspects of the inside of that, inside of the LVSA. Host: Oh, that's right. Paul Bookout: The core stage, of course, the major components, as David said, the tank, the different tanks will be set up, sent up here for testing. And once they're done testing, they'll be sent back down to Michoud and assembled. And then, the main engines will come over from Stennis and assembled into the full core. That's the liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen inner tank and the engines. Then, it'll be sent back over to Stennis. As David mentioned earlier, each engine, it would be separately tested, but then all four of these will be tested as, in flight configuration down there at Stennis. So we're running them through the full cycle of, as we're integrating. We're testing as we're putting it together. Host: That's right. Paul Bookout: So we understand that, as we assembled it, is it still operating the way we expected it to? Host: So then, will you, will it be built at Kennedy because that's when it's going to be launched? David Smith: Assembled. Host: I'm sorry, yeah. David Smith: It's built in Michoud, tested at Stennis, and then assembled at Kennedy. Host: Assembled at Kennedy. Paul Bookout: So the solid rocket motors, again, all the segment are, the five segments -- total of ten, five on each side -- have already been cast. They're in final prep for shipping down to KSC on the rail system. And then, just at, similar to shuttle program, once they've reached KSC, they'll be stacked in the VAB one segment at a time, and then the core stage will come in and be connected in the center between them. Then, you have your upper stage or the ICPS, where, I'm sorry, you'll have your LVSA, launch vehicle stage adapter. Then, you'll have your Orion -- let me just start over. Once the core has been installed, then you'll have the launch vehicle stage adapter installed. Then, you'll have your upper stage or the ICPS. And then, on top of that, you'll have the Orion stage adapter where the secondary payloads are. And then, Orion will come in and make, complete the stack. Host: All in this, in the Vertical Assembly Building? Paul Bookout: Yes. Yeah. Remember, it will built to assemble the Saturn V rocket, and-- Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: We're about that same size, so [laughs] there's plenty of room in there. Host: That's right. It's, going back to that, actually, I don't think we've talked about it on the podcast. The Vertical Assembly Building is, as you can probably tell from the way that this is being assembled, it's gigantic. But it's so big, right, that it has its own weather system that you have to kind of worry about, right? Is that right? David Smith: Yeah, it's-- Paul Bookout: Yes. David Smith: Tall enough where, you know, everything that gets up in there can form its, it could rain a little bit sometimes-- Paul Bookout: Yes. Form clouds up there. David Smith: Yes. Host: Wow. And then, the, you have these giant doors that's going to open, and then you'll just sort of roll the rocket out. David Smith: But one big change is, if you recall, so it's really interesting. You know, a lot of that building was not changed from Saturn V. They only used two of the bays. There's four for shuttle. So they took out the platforms that were for Saturn and put in some shuttle platforms. But for Saturn, excuse me, for Block 1B, they had to do a lot more changes to that. So they had to replace all the platforms for that, and they actually removed a whole bunch of Saturn V, your equipment that had been left, abandoned in place. So it's, that building has really changed from what it was during the shuttle era. Host: So it's really been reconstructed to fit the SLS. That's really the main-- David Smith: Yes. Host: The thing that's going on right now in the VAB. Is it-- David Smith: Right. Host: Is it completed, or is it still going on? David Smith: The platforms are completed. Paul Bookout: Completed. David Smith: For [inaudible] 1, Block 1. Paul Bookout: For Block 1, okay. Host: Right. Paul Bookout: Yeah. And, you know, for SLS, there's still a lot of work at KSC being performed too. It's just not the launch vehicle and all of its hardware for EM1. It's KSC has to go through a redesign on a lot of their components. As David just said, the VAB and all the platforms to be able to reach the hardware where you're stacking SLS. Also, the crawler transporter that takes the mobile launch platform, which has the SLS rocket on -- originally, the Saturn V rocket -- has to be upgraded to fit the SLS rocket. So, in addition, out at the launch pad, they're redoing the flame trenches, re-bricking them because it's going to have a lot more powerful rockets since the S, you know, since the shuttle program. In addition, they're, they have to have a lot bigger water suspension system, you know, because at a lot more power than what shuttle was going through. David Smith: Called rainbirds after the sprinklers. Big rainbirds. Host: Rainbirds. David Smith: Yeah, they kind of go, click, click, click, click, click, on the lawn, but this time, they do it on the engines and stuff. Host: Oh. [laughs] Paul Bookout: So, you know, the water suspension, suppression system is to help with not just the heat but, also, the sound that these rockets, engines, and solid rocket motors, when they ignite, they're very loud. They send out a shock wave. And if you didn't have the water there to suppress or dilute that sound, that would just bounce back off the hard surface up into the vehicle and could damage the vehicle. So it's just not for flame. It's also to protect the vehicle from itself on the acoustics. Host: Okay. That's the, so that's the suppression system? Paul Bookout: Correct. The water that you usually see that starts a couple seconds right before ignition. Host: Actually, I think we do have some audio of that. I don't think this one's quite as loud as a hot fire test, but let's listen to that. This is what the suppression is going to sound like. [ Engine Sounds ] Host: And those are the, that's the clicks, right? That's the, I guess it's basically just like a giant-- David Smith: Sprinkler system. Host: Sprinkler system. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: Rocket-size sprinkler system. So you're going to take it from the VAB, and I wanted to get, circle back on that because I think I was calling it Vertical -- is it Vehicle Assembly? David Smith: Vehicle Assembly. Host: Vehicle? So I was getting that wrong. It's Vehicle Assembly Building. You bring it out to a launch pad, and is it going to launch on the same pad that the Saturn V was launching? David Smith: Yes. Host: Okay, so that's 39-- David Smith: In fact, I think -- well, I'm not sure if it's A or B-- Host: A or B. David Smith: But the one that we, that NASA kept, they totally revamped the equipment underneath that concrete mound. Host: Yeah. David Smith: And it's, there's a lot of [inaudible] and electrical equipment that's there in, the remnants from Saturn V, there's still a rubber room. If you know, that's where the, if someone was trapped at the pad, you'd have a safe place in there. So that's still in that same area, which they've now made a historic area, which is kind of interesting. But they, for the first time in 50 years, have to clean out all the old equipment, totally revamp that launch pad for SLS. So it's brand new and ready to go. It's really impressive. Host: So the, what's being suppressed over at this launch pad by that suppression system, is it, is the solid rocket boosters, right, and then are the engines firing at the same time? David Smith: Yes. David Smith: These RS-25-- Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: Engines? Paul Bookout: So-- Host: Everything's all at once? Paul Bookout: Right. Actually, the -- sorry. Actually, the main engines ignite first because we want to make sure all of those are operational and working at peak efficiency because once you start the solid rocket motors, you got to launch because you can't turn off solid rocket motors. So you want to make sure your other four engines are operating nominally, and then you ignite your solid rocket motors. Host: So we've done some testing with the, with these, the main engines, right? The RS-25's? Paul Bookout: Correct. Yes. Also, we have done full-scale testing of the solid rocket motors out there at Orbital ATK in Utah, where they actually constrain him, lay him on the ground sideways, and constrain him, and actually fire, do test fires out there at Utah. Host: Ooh, I've seen that. They actually had a HDR video I think of that -- high dynamic range or something. Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: Yeah, and it was super cool to see. But then, also, just the test itself, actually-- Paul Bookout: Yeah, I've been out there for a couple launches, and it's kind of unique because, with shuttle launch, you listen to the sound, and it's, you know, launching, so it's, after just a few seconds, it, the sound's gone. Where solid rocket motor is, it's operates for two minutes, so you're sitting there feeling that whole sound, you know, [laughs] for two minutes, and it's a really exciting experience to be out there. Host: How did it feel? Did it feel like you were at a loud concert, or even worse than that? Paul Bookout: Well, you're usually about a mile or so away. Host: A mile, okay. Paul Bookout: So, you know, just for safety reasons and everything. Host: That's, yeah. Paul Bookout: So you kind of get to see it off in the distance a little bit, but, yeah, you still feel it and hear it, yeah. And it's kind of unique because you see the smoke, the engines fire off, and the smoke coming out, and then, a couple seconds later, that's when you feel it. So-- Host: How about the RS-25's? Do you feel those too, or not as much? Were out at the RS-25 test? David Smith: Yeah, yeah. Well, the static firing, yeah, you feel it in your, you can get close for that, and you feel it in your stomach. I mean, it's very visceral, the shaking of your, of that sound, so, yeah, you won't forget it once you've had it. Host: That was the sound we played earlier, right? David Smith: Right. Host: Okay. I think the one we still have is the solid rocket booster, I think. Okay, let's play that one. This is the one that Paul was talking, the one out in Utah. >> T minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, fire. [ Engine Sounds ] Host: Okay, so that was the test from out in Utah, and if you really, if you turned up the volume on your, on the podcast, you can really feel it. I listened to some of, I would listen to this in the car or hook it up to a nice speaker because you can really feel it there. So those, that's all of those -- the solid rocket boosters, the RS-25, and the suppression systems. So let's go back to the stages and sort of recap the, I guess the stages of all of these engines firing. What's that look like? David Smith: Right. So, you know, the term "stage" means that you have a single entity that provides an impulse for a period of time and then is thrown away. Host: Okay. David Smith: So in the olden days, so that would be Saturn, you know, you'd say Saturn was a three-stage vehicle, right. It had the first stage, the second stage, and then third stage was the injection stage that took, you know, Apollo and the land to the Moon. For both shuttle and for SLS, we really don't, can't call it three stages because these stages work together, which is kind of like they're two-and-a-half stages. So what that means is the core, and, as Paul said, the core starts a little bit earlier, but they're essentially the same time. The core and the booster, the solid rocket motors, boosters, excuse me, turn on at the same time. So they're ignited, and that's the one-and-a-half stage-- Host: Okay. David Smith: Because what happens? After two minutes, the boosters fall off and the core continues, so that's the half stage, in a sense, the boosters. Now, the core continues. And then, finally, the core is expended after eight minutes. It's disposed of in the ocean. And then, you have the upper stage -- in this case, the second of the one-and-a, two-and-a-half stages -- fires to get you to your destination. So you could still call it a three-stage system, but because some of the stages work together they're not really separate stages. So it gets a little confusing. So that's why you really don't hear, that's why people use the term "upper stage" these days and not "third stage" or "second stage" [laughs] because even the expendable vehicles have multiple solids on them, and so they have the same issues. So that's the difference in staging today. And it's more effective to do it this way as well. Host: It's more effective, I guess is it from the perspective of, oh, you can turn this off, you want to make sure everything's working? Is it I guess more reliable? That's why it's more effective? David Smith: Well, it's more effective because you use the power where you need it. At, you know, at sea level, you need the most thrust, so you combine everything together to get you out of the gravity well of Earth. So there's an efficiency with that system that, you know, is improved, is an improvement upon what was done for Saturn and other rockets before then? Host: Okay. So how about the, we're talking about different configurations too -- Block 1, Block 1B -- and how they're going to be different and just sort of evolve. Paul, I think you said you had some secondary payloads I think on 1B. Paul Bookout: Yes, that we're planning for. Host: That we're planning for, okay. Paul Bookout: So, you know, currently, on commercial launch vehicles, CubeSets usually don't have propulsion sets, and they're really going to low Earth orbit or geosynchronous orbit. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: And they're pretty much just deployed in those locations, so they don't need a secondary or propulsion system to get to where they need to. On EM1, this is the first opportunity for a secondary payload to be able to have propulsion systems and going to get access to deep space because we're giving them the initial thrust or velocity to get out going to the Moon or into deep space. They only need smaller propulsion system to change their trajectory or where they want to go. So it's, you know, this will be the game changer for secondary payloads. I mean, this is first-time opportunity for these small, little, shoe-size, shoebox-size payloads to be able to get out into deep space. Host: Yeah, and do some great stuff -- orbiting the Moon, land on the Moon. You got some-- Paul Bookout: Right. Host: Great stuff happening in some of these-- Paul Bookout: Right. Host: Secondary payloads. Paul Bookout: As I mentioned in Part 1, EM1's kind of discovering that, well, they really want to be a little bit bigger so they can have a little bit larger propulsion system. So instead of getting off at we call bus stop one right in the middle of the Van Allen belt, they'd like to get off at bus stop two or a little bit past so they don't have to worry about the radiation effects on their systems as much. But they can't do it because they don't have the propulsion system big enough to change their direction that they want to go. So on EM2, because it's a more powerful rocket, there's opportunity for additional mass allocations for secondary payloads. The mass allocation is the mass that's left over that the primary or co-manifested payload doesn't need the full capability of the rocket, so we can use that additional up mass for secondary payloads. So we're offering actually from a 6U- up to a 12U- and even a 27U-size secondary payload. That's huge for secondary payloads wanting to be able to get out into deep space. This allows them to have more power systems, more advanced telemetry, communications, and especially larger propulsion systems so they can get out into different destinations and do all this great science that they want to do in these smaller, less expensive packages. Host: Actually, that blends in nicely to drawing comparisons with SLS to other heavy-lift rockets because SLS is going to be gigantic and take these very, very large payloads. What's the difference between SLS capabilities and some other heavy lift rockets like Delta IV Heavy or Falcon Heavy? Why wouldn't you use just the heavy rockets? Why do you need SLS? Paul Bookout: Existing commercial rockets, they're not destinations going into deep space. They're mainly going into low Earth orbit or geosynchronous orbit. So for a secondary payload to get out into deep space, they'd have to be pretty big, you know, to have a propulsion system larger than a 27U. So the uniqueness of flying on SLS if you want to get out into deep space is that you don't have to have a huge satellite or, and propulsion system. SLS is providing that initial kick or velocity to get you out in the general direction you want to go. And then, you'd have a smaller propulsion system to be able to get out there. So overall, it's a lot less expensive. And again, SLS is giving these small CubeSets the opportunity to get onto deep space. Host: And also, the fact that it's human rated, right. The fact that you can actually put people on it and bring them far into space, right? Paul Bookout: Right. Host: Kind of a big thing. Paul Bookout: Definitely, yes. Host: Is it the only one that's rated for human, for deep space? David Smith: Well, it's the only launch vehicle today that's being designed specifically for that. There's-- Host: I see. David Smith: You could make the argument that a Boeing CST-100 capsule flying on a Falcon, excuse me, on a Atlas is a human-rated system. It's not really. It's an amalgam. And by the way, that's aimed at LEO. So they-- Host: I see. David Smith: You know, it, yes, we are the only ones that are being, designing specifically for that, and it's for safety reasons. Host: So it has to really meet these standards. It has to be redundant. It has to, and the SLS is the big, deep-space rocket that has the standards, has the capabilities, and is going to get you farther. David Smith: Right. Host: Ultimately. Paul Bookout: Exactly. And, you know, to be that safe vehicle for launching humans into space, deep space, you know, we have to have these built-in, redundant systems. We have to do all these testing throughout the whole build of the system. You know, of course, that's a little penalty that we have to have additional mass to be able to have this redundancy, have this extra safety aspects of this vehicle. So that, of course, goes right in against being able to have a larger mass, up mass capability. But we're doing this for human exploration, not robotics exploration, so we're, we have to take those extra steps to make it safe. Host: That's right. So what's the benefit of having this large up mass versus just launching a bunch of rockets with smaller masses? David Smith: Right. We, what's often not fully appreciated is, for human spaceflight, for long duration, you can put together a whole bunch of little modules for humans, but think about it like this: Every time you put together a module, it has to have a hatch. Maybe it has to have two. It has to have a life support system. It has to have a power system, a thermal system. It has to be able to operate autonomously until another small module is joined to it. So you can make a lunar orbiting platform or a Mars deep-space transport out of many small modules brought up over time for that many vehicles, but the problem is it becomes sub optimized. You end up paying maybe 50% more mass for all the structure you don't really have to have. Plus, now, you have many duplicative subsystems for many modules that have to all function flawlessly together and have to wait in space while other modules come up over time and to be joined together. So when you think about this, coming up with this giant, origami-type space station that's deployed over years from many small modules compared to one flight or maybe two flights bringing up a very large module that does everything in one reliable, tested on the ground type of human habitation system, it becomes almost a no-brainer, right. [laughs] If you want to make sure your people are alive over time, you really want that kind of system. Only SLS right now is sized to do that. Other guys can certainly deliver those pieces, but they'd be a lot smaller and you'd have these issues that we just talked about. Host: That's right. And I guess it kind of opens up some opportunities for just, because you can have a larger up mass, because you have more space within the fairing to put things-- David Smith: Right. Host: Now, you have a lot less constraints because even -- I'm going to go back to James Webb, right. James Webb is a wonderful telescope, but it was constrained by what it can-- David Smith: The volume of the fairing. Host: Yeah, so it had to come up with this folding technique to pretty much fit inside the fairing. Otherwise, you couldn't launch the satellite. But I guess you can design, you have a little bit more freedom of design with something a little bit larger, right? David Smith: Or if you wanted to scale up the James Webb design, let's say that was the perfect design for telescopes-- Host: Yeah. David Smith: You could make a telescope that's five times larger with the large fairing that, you know, larger fairings that SLS could fly. So it opens up a whole, either you can have a non-origami type, folding-out type telescope, and it's all great, or, if you want to still do that, it gets you something even larger. So the scale is, the current fairing is, in some cases, the ten-meter fairing would be five times larger than the largest existing fairing today-- Host: Whoa. David Smith: If we could produce that. And that's, you know, we're talking a seven-story building could fit inside that ten, you know, [laughs] that long, the long, ten-meter, diameter, meter, diameter fairing. Host: All right. Just launch my house into space and just-- David Smith: There you go. Host: Kind of get a nice view. David Smith: Well, it'd be your condo building that it would launch-- Host: [laughs] Condo building. David Smith: Not your house. David Smith: Even bigger. Host: Yes. Host: So I kind of wanted to end with just sort of a scope of, we're kind of setting up a scene for what this rocket is capable of. Looking towards the future, and, David, you kind of pointed towards this, was this is a 50-year rocket, right. This is something that we're planning on using for a long time for many missions. How do you see this rocket being used? Like, take us into the future. What is this rocket going to give us? David Smith: So, you know, obviously, the lunar orbiting platform would be the first step. Let's-- Host: Yeah. David Smith: Improve the technologies in our backyard we call the Moon. We use those technologies then to extrapolate a system that can go to Mars safely and start, you know, bringing Mars into this human ring of habitation in our solar system. Some of the more exciting things in tandem are these robotic missions. There's the idea that we can send, because we can go so fast, we, so fast into the deeper reaches of the solar system, that within a five-year mission, we can send out a telescope that could go 200 astronomical units out from the Sun, and actually come back and aim at the Sun, and use the Sun as a gravitational lens to see exoplanets on the other side of the Sun. So we could make the world's largest telescope by having one lens on one side of the Sun and using the Sun's gravity as the other lens, and now seeing planets like we could've never seen them before, all because SLS can send that telescope out in a time frame that we can actually operation a mission, versus, you know, remember, Voyager took 30 years to get outside to, close to the heliosphere. So, you know, it's a, it's such a game changer that the real issue with SLS is we haven't thought about all the stuff we can do with it yet, you know. It kind of bends our imagination in a new way that we haven't been thinking of. Another example is interstellar probe. Again, sending something beyond the heliosphere now. You know, instead of the Voyager drifting out there over 30 to 40 years, we can send something out there in 20 years to break the barrier and see what's on the other side of the heliosphere. And we can do that in an active manner versus we're just getting little pulses from Voyager now still coming back. We can be much more active in that. So a lot of places like JPL are investigating the capability of SLS in ways that we never even thought of recently. So we're just on the very edge of discovering what we can do with the system. Host: Unbelievable. And this just kind of opens up the plan for exploring beyond low Earth orbit, right. You've said the first step for human exploration is going towards the Moon, but now you have a bunch of Moon missions. You kind of develop your skills. You got this Lunar Orbital Platform, the gateway that's going to bring us, the truck stop [laughs] that we call it-- David Smith: Right. Host: Is going to take us further out. And I'm guessing this will be used for the future human missions too beyond this first step. David Smith: Well, if we go to, we talked about I think in the earlier episode, nuclear thermal propulsion. Host: Yeah. David Smith: If we're able to employ that for human transport, we can reduce times to where we can send people maybe even ultimately beyond Mars. So, but only SLS with its capability to loft both mass and volume, when the nuclear, this nuclear thermal propulsion requires large amounts of hydrogen, which requires volume, only the SLS can give us that capability to even see if some of these technologies are usable, versus just relying on the same old technologies as the last 50 years. So we have so much promise in front of us with this. Host: Unbelievable. You guys are getting me all excited for what's to come. I just want to take a time machine, and jump, you know, 20 years into the future, and just see this rocket has done. Paul Bookout: Yep, you're not the only one. David Smith: [laughter] Take us with you. Host: Yeah, that's-- David Smith: We want to be there too. Host: Unbelievable. Hey, David and Paul, thank you so much for coming on, and kind of describing the SLS, and really spending so much time so we can do this in two episodes because there's so much to this story. And honestly, this was the first time that I've actually gone into this much detail for the rocket, so I really appreciate you getting on. And for the listeners, please listen to Parts 1 and 2 and get the whole story of what this rocket is all about. Guys, thanks again for coming on. Houston, we have a podcast. David Smith: You're welcome. Paul Bookout: Thank you very much for having us. Host: Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 2, Can You Hear Me Now? I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. In this podcast, we're bringing in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, pretty much all the folks that have the coolest information, the stuff that you really want to know. [inaudible] We're talking everything from extraterrestrial [inaudible] to the unknown [inaudible]. So today, we're talking space communication networks with Bill Foster. He's a ground controller-- Hey, thanks for sticking around and listening to the whole full story of the Space Launch System. This was Episode 42, Part 2. If you haven't listened to Part 1, go back. You can listen to some of the more components about EM1 and then just some general ideas about what SLS was. Otherwise, you can go to some social media channels and website. We'll start with the website -- www.NASA.gov/SLS. That's where you can get the latest and greatest. Otherwise, you can follow some social media accounts on Twitter. It's @NASA underscore SLS. On Facebook, it's NASA SLS. Or you can actually go on the web and search "SLS Mission Planner's Guide," and it's a document on the web that you can download and just learn everything about the rocket, some of the constraints. And that was actually one of the things that Mr. David Smith worked on. So we're really looking forward to the launch of the first SLS. Glad you were able to join us on today's podcast to listen about the rocket and some of the missions and capabilities of the Space Launch System. If you have any questions, just use the #askNASA on your favorite platform for the NASA Johnson Space Center accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. You can submit a question or an idea for an episode that you want us to cover here on the podcast. Just make sure to mention it's for this podcast, Houston We Have a Podcast. This episode was recorded on March 20th, 2018 thanks to Alex Perryman, Rachel Craft, Laura Reshawn [phonetic], Kelly Humphries, Pat Ryan, Tyler Martin, Bev Perry, and all the folks at the Marshall Space Flight Center for helping to put this together. Thanks again to Dr. Paul Bookout and Mr. David Smith for coming on the show. [inaudible

HWHAP Ep35 A Ride on Orion

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-03-09

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 35: A Ride in Orion. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So in this podcast we bring in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts -- all to let you know the coolest information about what's going on right here at NASA. So today we're talking about NASA's deep space humans capsule, Orion. Orion will take us outside low-earth orbit, well beyond the International Space Station. To prepare Orion to take us to deep space, we have folks here at the Johnson Space Center working on development and testing of every stage of flight, one of whom is Jeff Fox, chief engineer of the Rapid Prototype Lab at the Johnson Space Center, here to tell us all about Orion and how the Rapid Prototype Lab plays a role in its success. We talked about some of the testing that's been happening for Orion, and Jeff brings us the actual audio from those tests to experience during this episode. It really felt like we were taking a ride on Orion. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Jeff Fox. Enjoy. [ Music ] Host: Thanks a lot for coming today to talk about kind of Orion. And you are the chief engineer of the Rapid Prototype Lab; is that right? Jeff Fox: That's correct. And thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and talk about -- talk to you today. Host: Fantastic. All right. Well, we're going to kind of get into the Rapid Prototype Lab. And I'm really excited for this episode because the whole idea of that lab is you can kind of sit down and sort of experience some of these test flights that we've done. And you have audio recordings of that that you brought in. And we'll kind of go through those and you, the listener can actually sit back and kind of -- kind of experience what it's like inside these test runs inside of Orion. And Jeff's going to kind of guide us through that experience [Laughs]. Jeff Fox: Yes. It's very exciting. We're going to take you through a launch, an entry, and a pad abort like when you're trying to get away from the rocket if it's not performing well on a launch and your little escape rocket on top. I think you'll really find it interesting. Host: Yeah, this is really going to be cool. So let's kind of set the scene a little bit. We've done a couple episodes on Orion itself, but if we can just start with the basics of what is this vehicle that we're going to be on? Because all of these tests are different parts of Orion, but this vehicle Orion, what is it? Jeff Fox: Well, obviously it's a capsule. People have seen it. You know, it has a similar shape to Apollo, only it has four people in it. It's wider at the bottom. So whereas Apollo was on the order of 3.9 meters, Orion is 5 meters. So it's quite a bit bigger in the interior. It also has a heat shield that's unique. And it's the largest one that we've tested to date. So that's a real unique factor. And it has a lot of newer electronics in it. And you don't have as many physical switches. Everything is done under a glass and computer displays, much like everybody's used to seeing on their laptop and video games. But so all those technologies and all that's been learned over the many years since Apollo [inaudible] all try to take advantage of the ones that help us and use the ones that are reliable and cost-effective and that will get the job done. Host: Exactly. Okay, cool. So you got this capsule. And this capsule is going to bring us further than we've gone before, right? And then we're going to be focusing NASA -- the objective is to go and explore the solar system and sort of establish this -- this space in the low-earth orbit for commercial industries to come and take over; is that right? Jeff Fox: The goal is to have the commercial crew vehicles, you know, take up the space in low-earth orbit where Shuttle and Station have been the ones primarily and Soyuz and other visiting vehicles, but we're trying to move beyond that. So it takes a bigger rocket, it takes different -- it's different challenges to do that. Because whether we go to the moon, go to a gateway that's somewhere between the moon and the Earth, go to Mars, you're going to have to have a vehicle that can get you out of earth orbit. You're going to have to have a vehicle, Orion the capsule, that can get you safely back into the atmosphere and back to Earth after these missions. These missions can be longer. They can be days or weeks, it could be months or years. Now, we don't want anybody to think that you're going it live in that little, tiny capsule for years and years -- well, obviously you're not. For the upcoming missions it's maybe a week or two. You know, you're dealing with days or weeks. That may be okay. But if you're going to Mars or you're going somewhere for a long time, you're going to have to dock to a larger habitable volume. You know, something -- a bigger canister, if you will, where you can live and do other things. And then you'll transition back into Orion as your vehicle to get you back to Earth when the time is right. Host: Exactly. And we're taking these steps to get to that point, just one step at a time, kind of developing this vehicle. We're building right now the vehicle for EM-1, I believe. But we've actually done a test in the past, EFT-1, right? That was our first test flight of Orion. Jeff Fox: That's correct. EFT-1 stands for Exploration Flight Test 1. It was actually launched on a different booster than we're going to use for our NASA missions. It was on a Delta IV heavy. But that rocket got us to the speed and altitude conditions around the Earth that we needed because what we really wanted to do was test the heat shield, structure, recovery systems, those types of things. You know? And we did that. The vehicle actually went up to 20,000 miles an hour, which is the faster any vehicle -- manned-type vehicle -- has been since Apollo. And we're actually going to have to go faster than that to escape Earth orbit when we go to the moon. Host: That's right. Because the Delta IV brought us not necessarily around the moon, but brought us kind of in the lunar vicinity and then coming back super fast, right? Jeff Fox: It was a highly elliptical orbit. So it was around the Earth but way away from the Earth. Host: Yes. Jeff Fox: A very high apogee. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: So, you know, you were coming in, accelerating the Earth, and building up those tremendous speeds so you can test the heat shield and structure. Host: Yeah. And that was the mission profile. You got the heat shield. You had, you know, these incredible speeds to get to the temperatures in order to test the heat shield. But then there was the whole sequence of deploying parachutes, too, right? Jeff Fox: That's right. You know, you're only as good as all the components that work together. And if you can't get the chutes out, it's not going to be a good mission. Host: Exactly. And you actually got to see that firsthand, didn't you? Jeff Fox: Yeah, I was very fortunate. We actually -- what's really unique is you want to be close as you can to this vehicle anytime we're doing tests like this, whether it's parachutes out in the desert in Yuma, Arizona or the spacecraft coming back from space with the EFT-1. And nominally, the error predictions of all the debris that come off when these parachute come out are very large. And so you can't approach in a helicopter or thing too close because it's dangerous -- something could hit the rotor, hit the helicopter. But you want to get close because you want to get good stills and video because it's good for engineering and documentation and great for public affairs to share the imagery. But you have to have a way to do that. So a system was developed that allowed us to look at the error predictions of these things coming off. And I was fortunate enough to be deployed aboard ship out at sea for EFT-1, and we flew in the Navy Seahawk out at altitude about 6,000 feet out over the Pacific Ocean. And we were flying with the Navy and using their cameras to image the vehicle that was coming back in from space. I think we picked it up somewhere around 70,000 feet it. It looked like a star on infrared, then we switched it to the live video. We kept the video trained on it. We were able to make all the timing calls for our photographs and videographers onboard the helicopter and follow the vehicle basically down to splashdown. So it was an honor, very exciting time. Host: That's incredible. So were you piloting, or were you taking the images, or monitoring the instruments? Jeff Fox: Well, it's a whole team. The Navy was doing the piloting. And then we had a mostly NASA -- combined NASA contractor team in the back of the aircraft either taking pictures, keeping track of the timeline and letting people know what's happening, or like myself, operating a tool we called the debris tool. So we make sure we're staying in the places that are safe to fly in -- there's no hazardous debris in those areas. Host: Yeah. And then kind of tracking it. Did you actually see it come down? Jeff Fox: I was. Usually you're real focused. This is a great question. You're so intent you don't want to screw up, right? Everybody's looking at you, you put all this into it, you don't want to miss the money shot. Right? So you're looking at your screen, but you realize history's going on. I did get a quick peek out the right-side window and I could see the vehicle coming down. And I could see it splashdown. But your main thing is the safety of the helicopter and everybody on board and allow us to collect that imagery so the engineers and others can use it later. Host: Awesome. All right. So that was our first step on this future vehicle that's going to take us deeper into space. But really, your job title is the chief engineer of the Rapid Prototype Lab, right? So what's that, what's the Rapid Prototype Lab? Jeff Fox: So it's kind of a generic-sounding name. It's a name that's stuck. The lab's actually been around for over ten years. It belongs to the crew office, CB, at NASA. The whole purpose of it is you have a lot of knowledge with test pilots and all the seasoned crew that have been aboard all these spacecrafts, and they have a lot of knowledge about how to operate a vehicle. And that knowledge can be -- we want to leverage it. And what our lab does is we are actually in the critical path of building the displays that will be used to control the Orion vehicle in all flight phases -- the launch phases, the orbit phases, the entry phases. So there's roughly 70 of these displays -- software displays that the crew will use to interact with. Well, the crew is very involved in design of what the content of those displays are. And so our lab is charged with building these prototypes and these displays, describing how they work, bringing the crew into simulators that we've built to test out these displays, find if there's issues with them that we need to correct. And this is not something new. We're doing it for Orion, but we've also did it in Shuttle and for other vehicles, like the X-38 that we've tested in the past. So it's really a real resource, you know, to ensure we've got a spacecraft that the crew can interface with. Because that's your primary control, is through those displays. Host: And that's it, is to -- I guess, rapid prototype means you kind of use the resources you have to kinds of put this together. "All right, what can we create to simulate this pilot, this experience, and this cockpit," I guess? Jeff Fox: Yes. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And I'm saying, again, getting back to the name Rapid Prototyping Lab, it's really of the crew interfaces. Host: I see. Jeff Fox: So that's kind of a generic name, but that's what we're really doing. In this case the displays. So that's really your whole interface to this vehicle. You know, without that, you know, you're kind of along for the ride. But you may need manual intervention. You want to follow what the automation's doing at times. There's a whole host of reasons that you want to see data and know what's going on with your vehicle. And you may go on missions that are a long time delay before somebody can talk to you. Well, I may have to go in there and do things and I can't wait for the ground. So we need to try to think of those things and we work with teams of the crew and human engineering, and flight operations, mission control, flight controllers. So together we all come up with these concepts and test them with the crew and, you know, take advantage of all that experience -- decades, centuries of experience when you add it all up. Host: There you go. Yeah, you're right, this is a place where all of this knowledge comes together to create this beautiful thing that eventually is going to go in a real vehicle and the procedures are going to be implemented in real space flight. Jeff Fox: That's the most exciting part for us, knowing that for -- you know, we build these vehicles maybe what, once every 30 years? You know, this has been my short experience. And they can last that long, you know, or longer and just be able to be part of even a couple displays or actually [inaudible] the crew is using and you test it is really exciting. Host: Oh, yeah. And so this is the reason that I really wanted you to come in, is you gave us a tour of this Rapid Prototype Lab and we actually got to sit back and you played this experience of Exploration Flight Test 1, of EFT-1. And it truly felt like I was there. I felt like I was inside. So what are you using this test for, this footage, the lab specifically for EFT-1? Jeff Fox: A couple things. One, it certainly is one of the most popular tours around [Laughs]. We get a lot of requests. I think we've had he have been from the center director to the head of -- the administrator of NASA on down. Host: Oh, wow. Jeff Fox: To different authors, and dignitaries, and all kinds of personnel. Because it's fun. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: But it's not just a simulation. The difference with this is I'd say it's more like a recreation. Because we've actually taken the real audio and video off of the EFT-1 test flight like you talked about. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And the way we did that was although there was no crew on it for that first launch, we gathered all the data we mentioned about, we came back 20 miles an hour, tested the heat shield. But there was a microphone inside of the crew cabin. And it's located near where the crew's head is. So we had the idea if we got this audio, we could certainly replicate the audio during the different mission phases -- the launch, the entry, those kind of things. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And then we said well, you know what? Not only do we have the audio, we've got the video because there's different cameras pointed out the different windows. And okay, well, I bet we can sync up the audio and the video together. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And we had an idea we were going to build a simulator that you can lay on your back. And in fact, the particular simulator we're repurposing was flown on the zero-gravity plane that does a big parabolic arc in the sky. As we were testing things early on in the program, we repurposed that and pumped the audio and the video into that. You lay out your back, you look out the windows. We actually are proud of the fact that we did it very cost-effectively, too, because we repurposed older seats that Orion wasn't using. We went to Home Depot and bought a screen and created a screen over the windows that you lay down and look out -- the regular Orion windows which are in our mock-up. Host: Cool. Jeff Fox: We used a projector that was not being used for anything else. And, you know, now we have a way to recreate the launch, the landing, and the pad abort, which we'll probably talk about in a little bit. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: Not only can we recreate it and it's the fun part, but we've actually used that audio/video and tied it in with data from the real mission and put the crew in there and let them actually practice manually deploying parachutes, for example, or working malfunctions. Host: Oh, yeah. Jeff Fox: And not only that, that simulator's been tied to a very what we call a mini-mission control room with flight controllers, a handful of them where we can flow that same simulation data, talk on the different intercom system, and it's just like a real flight -- a simulation where you have the mission control involved with the crew, using this audio, video, and different data. And you get a feel for what it's like to really be on the vehicle. We can really learn how good are these displays working and what works well. Because it's a brand new system. We need to test these things. Host: All right. So I mean, the fact that you had audio and video on EFT-1, were you advocating for that or was that part of the mission design? Jeff Fox: Part of the mission design. Host: I see. Jeff Fox: We just said, "Hey, it's there, let's see what we can do with it." Host: Yes. Jeff Fox: Again, hence the name Rapid Prototyping Lab, RPL, it doesn't always cost a lot to try these different concepts. So we're fortunate that we were able to prototype these things. And we need to do things. You they, sometimes it doesn't have to be a perfect production model to test things and find out if you're on the right path. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: So we could build something like this recreation of EFT-1. Host: Fantastic. Well, I'm ready to ride on it. You want to take us through? Jeff Fox: I'm ready. I never get tired of it. I've done it over 100 times and never, never tire of it. Host: Oh, man. I'm very excited. Okay, all right. So the first one, I think, why don't we start with launch? Because I feel like that's the first thing you think about -- the first part of EFT-1. So I wanted to take us through the first three minutes. And there's a good reason for that. What's happening on the first three minutes of launch? Jeff Fox: Well, of course, you're lighting the engines for the first time. You're close to the ground. You know, that's what -- if you were standing in the audience, you'd see the big flame. And a number of seconds later, you hear the audio, the sound coming in. Well, interesting thing from the perspective of the crew, you're getting the microphone on board. So it's pretty loud. You're going to really hear that when you first launch. And the other thing about that is the sound is right there, it's all going into the ground, it's reflecting back up onto you and the structure. And so it's pretty rowdy for those first several seconds. And then as you move away from the ground and that structure, it quiets down a little bit because you're not getting the sound of the rocket and the reflected sound and all that. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And as you're moving up through the atmosphere, again, it quiets down a little bit more. But then you start to pick up more speed. And as some of you even remember back in Shuttle, you remember those calls like max Q, and things like that, maximum dynamic pressure, fancy words for the vehicle's moving very quickly through dense air and the aeroforces on the vehicle, you can transmit some more sound on the vehicle, and you can kind of hear the sound rise a little bit as you're going in those regimes. And then as you go faster but you get through much thinner air, the sound will taper off and then eventually it will be fairly quiet as you're ascending through the atmosphere. Host: Exactly. And then eventually it's going to get to a point where you're not going to really hear anything until things start clicking and deploying and stuff, right? Jeff Fox: It's very quiet. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: It's much quieter. I mean, you're going to notice something's going on. Obviously you're going to feel a rumble. That's the other nice thing about our simulators, we actually play back some vibration, you know, from those recorded microphones into the seat. So not only are you looking at the audio and video, you're feeling the seat move. Host: Yes. Jeff Fox: So you really feel like it's a, I guess, 3D experience, if you will [Laughs]. So you know, you got the motion typical, like, home theatre-type of seat shakers. Host: All right. All right. Well, if you have a home theatre seat shaker, this is the time to plug it in for this podcast. Because we're going to take you through the first three minutes of launch. And like you said, it's going to sort of -- it will be loud at first, and then it will sort of quiet down after you get to maximum dynamic pressure. And then it starts getting louder again, and then as you kind of escape the atmosphere, the molecules, you're not pushing up against anything and it gets quieter and quieter and quieter until nothing. Jeff Fox: That's right. Host: Awesome. All right, here we go. Take us through the ride. [ Rockets firing ] Okay, awesome. That was pretty cool. All right. So that was the first part. And so that's the launch. Then through the mission profile it goes -- what, it goes around the Earth, and then that's when it does the large apogee? Is that kind of what happens on EFT-1? Jeff Fox: Yeah. Well, the bottom line is it's a couple orbit -- Host: Couple orbit. Jeff Fox: -- mission, but you're getting -- your whole objective is to get a very high apogee and create the entry speeds that are needed to test the heat shield properly. Host: Yes. Jeff Fox: You know, it's one thing to test it in low-earth orbit at 17,500 miles an hour, but you have to do -- generate a different type of trajectory and performance profile in order to generate a 20,000-mile-an-hour entry to create the heat, the 4,000-degree roughly heating that you're going to get on the heat shield to find out if that and the structure will survive all that. So. Host: Exactly, exactly. And, you know, 2,500 miles an hour is not just small, like, boost, you know? That's significant. So -- Jeff Fox: 20,000 miles an hour. Host: Right. I mean, 2,500 extra miles an hour. Jeff Fox: Oh, 2,500 extra miles an hour? That's correct. That's exactly right. Host: Yeah. So generating that is no small feat. So that's where this next part comes in. And that's the entry sequence, right? Jeff Fox: Right. Host: So we've kind of split this up into a couple different segments. First is you're starting to enter the atmosphere and there's -- that's when the heat is starting to build up and you're getting this plasma; what's happening there? Jeff Fox: Well, you're basically now, you know, if you think about the ascent, you were speeding through the atmosphere is getting quieter. Now you're at your maximum speed of 20,000 miles an hour. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: As you come into what we call entry interface at probably 400,000 feet, 80 miles up roughly, you start running into enough air fast enough that you're creating this heat and this plasma around the vehicle, around the heat shield and you're generating these maximum temperatures in the 4,000-degree range in order to test your heat shield. And as you're riding in there, you can actually see the plasma going by the window; you hear the jets fire; you see the plasma interrupted and moving outside the window. Host: Whoa. Jeff Fox: It's quite a sight. So you're hearing it, you're seeing it. You know, you're feeling the jet fires of the little attitude control jets to either stabilize you or change your attitude. So it's quite a ride. Host: All right. Okay. So I think that video has to be available somewhere, like, on YouTube or NASA.gov or something like that. Jeff Fox: I know there are vehicles -- there are videos I've seen post the flight, which was back in December of '14. Host: Yes. Jeff Fox: Some of them, I think they are the same views, but they may be either set to NASA narration or music. Host: Oh, okay. Jeff Fox: What we did is we stripped all that out because we just wanted it like it would have been had the crew been in it. Host: Yes. Jeff Fox: It was a crew experience. So it's just audio from the perspective of the crew inside the cabin and video out the window. Host: Cool. All right. So let's go into that. Let's play -- it's about 30 -- maybe 30 seconds, maybe a minute. You're going to hear the plasma start to build. And it's kind of like a white noise almost kind of noise? Jeff Fox: Yeah. Host: And then you'll hear these thumps. And that's the jet firings as it's changing attitude. Jeff Fox: Right, exactly. [ Rockets firing ] Host: All right. Awesome. All right. So the next part is there's this kind of a gap up until the next loud sound you hear is the chute, when the chute start coming out, right? Jeff Fox: Yeah. Actually, the first thing happens, there's a cover protecting all that, the chute compartment on the top. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: You wouldn't want that just exposed to anything before you're ready for it to come out. So the first thing that's going to happen is that cover, the fore bay, the FBC will jettison. You'll here a pyrotechnics fires and you'll hear that thing come off. You'll see it actually go by out the window. So that's kind of interesting to see it fly off. And that's followed very quickly by the drove chute. There's two drove chute that are about 23 feet in diameter. And what you're doing there is you're trying to put those out to slow and ensure the vehicle's in a stable configuration because you don't want to put out your next set of parachutes until you've done that. And so, you know, certain amount of time later, your main parachutes will come out. There's three of those. Each one of those is about 115-foot in diameter. Again, you'll hear another loud pyrotechnics sound because you have mortars that are firing that are deploying these parachute. The good thing about these parachute is you got three. So any two of them you can have a safe landing. That's a good thing. You got some redundancy. Host: All right, that's awesome. Okay. So let's play that, let's play the chute deployment sequence. It's about 30-ish seconds long, so let's go through there. [ Orion sounds ] Okay, awesome. So those main chute are deploying. Now you're coasting on those for a couple minutes, right? Jeff Fox: Yeah, that's right. Host: And then so now you're going down and you're splashing. And the EFT-1 happened in the -- it splashed down in the Pacific Ocean? Jeff Fox: That's correct. Host: Okay. So then now this is the last part we're going to play, is the actual splashdown. So I think you start off by hearing a couple thumps, right? And those are the jets are firing for orientation? Jeff Fox: Yeah, there's some jets firing. In that particular mission we were trying to keep the -- basically the spinal axis of the astronaut, if you will, from head to toe pointing in the direction that we're moving so that when you splashdown, the loads that you take, the G forces that you take, kinds of spread them out nice and evenly across your body. Host: Ah. Jeff Fox: So you're kind of hearing maybe [inaudible] these jets fire to try to hold that position. And then you'll hear the splashdown. And it's really great in the video, unfortunately folks can't see it, but you see the water come up over the windows. Host: Oh, cool. Jeff Fox: And then you sit there for a few more seconds and then you hear another pyrotechnic booming sound. And that's the risers that are connected to the parachutes cutting them away. Because you want to get yourself away from those. Host: That's right. Yeah. You don't want them to be pulling you all over the place. Jeff Fox: That's right. Host: Okay, cool. So that's only a couple seconds here. So we'll go through the jets firing and the splashdown all the way to cutting those risers. [ Orion sounds ] All right, very cool. So there it is. There's your ride on Orion. It's launching and then landing in that whole sequence there. So the last part that I really wanted to experience was the pad abort test that we did I think it was back in 2010? And that was Pad Abort 1. It's very quick, isn't it? Jeff Fox: Yeah, it's real quick. Actually, that was done down out at White Sands, New Mexico, you know, just sitting on a capsule with a booster -- the abort rocket's on top of it emulating an escape from the launch pad. You know, if you were sitting out there and this crew was on this big, massive rocket and there wasn't time to jump out and run down a slide wire and slide to safety, you might have to light that little rocket off. And it would separate at the bottom of the capsule and pull the capsule away. So that was -- the way we emulated that out at White Sands is we put, again, that capsule on a concrete pad, had the escape rocket on top, and then fired that rocket to test it. Host: That's right. And this -- the whole idea of a pad abort is this thing is supposed to be escaping from a failed vehicle. So it's -- everything happens so fast. And you're probably feeling a lot of G's, right? Jeff Fox: That's correct. Whether you're escaping on the launch pad or you're escaping when you're at altitude, that little rocket has a big task. It has to accelerate your 20,000-pound roughly capsule away from a giant, most powerful rocket ever built that's behind you that may be chasing you. Host: [Laughs] Yeah. Jeff Fox: And you may be pushing through a thick part of the atmosphere. So not only are you trying to push through the atmosphere, you're trying to get out of the way of maybe a rocket that's coming apart at the booster below you. So I've got to have a really high-accelerating little escape rocket to get me out of harm's way. So when this motor fires, it's only for a few seconds and those G's build up very quickly. But they spike real quickly and come down real quickly because, you know, if you were on those too long, you can injure yourself. Host: Yeah, that's right. I mean, feeling that on your -- it's kind of spread out throughout your whole body, I can't even imagine what that feels like. Jeff Fox: That's interesting you say that. I kind of segue into my dad, Mike Fox actually back in the mid '60s he was the lead subject in the centrifuge. And think of a centrifuge as something that swings around and in this case it was him and his other Navy test subjects back in the mid '60s. And they were riding several of the Apollo abort profiles. And those were in the 12- to 16-G range. In fact, my dad rode one up. He still holds a record at JSC at 16 G's. Host: Whoa. Jeff Fox: And if you want to get an idea of what that's like, you could go out to your garage and jack your car up and get in the center of it and let it down on your chest. If you're 200 pounds and you multiply that by 16, that's 3,200 pounds, so -- Host: Whoa. Jeff Fox: -- that's what it's like. Now, obviously no body can take that body -- not somebody but your physical body can take that -- Host: Right. Jeff Fox: -- for very long. So the G comes on very quick. We're talking fractions of a second or maybe a second. But it's short but it's intense. And you can cause bodily injury. In fact, interesting story, my dad was doing a high-G run and the simulator, that part went well, but the simulator had to be slowed down or abrupt slowdown. What that did is if you think about swinging around like on an amusement ride, your inner ear and how the fluid in your inner ear can get disturbed if you stop abruptly or move your head and you feel upset something or something? Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: Well, when they stopped the centrifuge and he got out, he didn't feel real well. And eventually, you know, they observed him, they said, "Well, you can go home." He had a little hazardous duty badge on for when you ride in the centrifuge because it obviously can be hazardous. Host: Oh, okay. Jeff Fox: And he decided, "Well, you know, they said you could go home." And so he got in his car and drove home. And, you know, a few minutes into the drive he's getting pulled over. He sees police behind him. And he's like, "Well, geez, I don't know what's wrong. I haven't done anything." So he pulled over. And the officer asked him to step out and say, "Did you know you were weaving all over the road?" "Well, no, sir. I'm fine." You know? Of course he's thinking he's fine. Host: Right. Jeff Fox: And the officer said, "We want you to turn around and put your hands on the roof." And so he went to turn around and put his hands on his roof and he fell backwards. His whole inner ear was -- had everything transposed 180 out to what he thought he was -- the motion he was performing was, like, the opposite. And so then, you know, police immediately thought, "Well, you must be drunk. You have to be drunk." And, of course, he's trying to show him his badge and say no, no, I'm part of the NASA crew. I was doing this. And they weren't going to have anything of it. So they took him to the Baytown jail probably about a half an hour from the Johnson Space Center here. And, of course, it was in the evening. And he's trying to get him to understand what's going on. And so some time later in the evening, one of the desk sergeants or somebody came over and said, "I want to take another look at this." And so he asked him some more questions. He looked at the badge and he's like, "Maybe we've made a terrible mistake. Maybe you're telling us the truth." Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: Bottom line is they wind up saying, "Yes, we checked it out. You're good." But the funny thing was is they actually took him out to his car, which was still on the side of the road and let him get in it to go home. And he still has this condition that maybe he's driving like a drunk even though it's not his fault. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And so he gets in the car, somehow gets home about 3:30 in the morning. Of course, mom is there. You know, we're real young at the time, so we don't remember -- maybe six, seven years old. She says, "Where are you? Have you been out? Have you been out with the guys? What's been going on here?" And he says, "No, I was doing this high-G centrifuge run and we had an issue. And this and that and the police, and here I am." And so he was changing clothes, getting ready to go to bed and went to sit down on the bed and fell down -- fell backwards. And so immediately she's thinking, "No, you must have been out. This was some party or something." But he eventually talked to her and explained it. And everything worked out. Host: And then she took him right back to jail, huh? Jeff Fox: Oh, yeah, right [Laughs]. Well, thank goodness he made it back because we did see him again. Host: Thankfully, absolutely. Wow. That's amazing how long that that affected him, how long that his equilibrium was so out of whack. That's all the way through the middle of the night. Jeff Fox: You kind of -- where you upset your gyros, you know, you -- literally those little hair follicles and that fluid in your inner ear can really be disturbed. And they don't necessarily -- you don't just necessarily recover from that immediately [inaudible]. Host: Yeah. So this pad abort test, this is going to -- you know, you're going to feel the G's, but it's going to do it in a way where the human body isn't going to be so out of whack, right? Jeff Fox: No, you're not going to stop abruptly like in the centrifuge and that motion. You're getting the G's from chest to back, you're laying down, looking straight up. They're onset very quickly. You know, the whole thrust of the motor is, you know, three to four seconds. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: And you're not at that max G for more than fractions of a second in that peak. It does peak there and it is uncomfortable. And it does save your life. So that's the purpose of it. You know, if they can bring you back and you have a little bruising, well, then we did our job. Host: Yes, yes, exactly. And just another point is you said you're feeling this on your chest and it's being kind of spread evenly throughout your body, but on the motion directly kind of on your chest versus, you know, straight up your spine couldn't handle that, right? If you were taking those loads. Jeff Fox: I mean, you'd have a whole other bigger problem. Host: Oh, yeah. Jeff Fox: If it was coming from toward your head to your toe or your toes to your head, you would have a lot of other complications. And so that's not a good orientation to put the body in. Host: Definitely not. And that's why they're oriented this way during launch. So for Pad Abort 1 we're going to take you to that simulation, that audio right now. It's very loud up front, right? So I would just be prepared for that, it's going to be real sudden. But then it's going to be real loud. And then about 30 seconds in, that's where everything happens and it has to happen super quickly, right? Jeff Fox: Yes. So if you think about it, think of two ways of doing an abort. A pad abort means you're sitting on the pad or you're very close to the ground, right? So that's one way. Another way is you've got altitude, you're already in the boost phase of the main booster. Maybe you're at 10,000 feet, maybe you're at 100,000 feet. So you have some altitude to work, to deploy parachute and that type of thing. Well, in this particular one you're going to experience, this pad abort, you're sitting on the ground, remember, out at White Sands, New Mexico. The capsule's on the ground, the escape rocket was on top. So you only have a few thousand feet to play with after the thrust of that abort motor is finished. So as soon as that loud noise is over and tails off, you hear another booming noise and that's the jettison motor to pull the cover off of the vehicle. Because you have a cover over it to protect it from all the smoke and fire of the main motor, to get you to safety. Host: That's right, because it's right above you. Jeff Fox: It's right above you. But you can't get your parachute out unless you get this cover off. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: So the cover comes off, but because you don't have a lot of altitude, the next thing right away happens is the forward bay cover that we talked about before for the entry that covers the parachute compartment, it comes off followed right away by the drove chutes, followed right away by the main chutes. You don't have time -- you don't have time to watch everything perfectly come out and be stable. You just have to get under the parachutes. Host: That's right. So everything's happening super fast. So, again, it's really loud up front. So just be prepared for that. And then 30 second in about, that's where everything's going to deploy. [ Rocket sounds ] All right, cool. So that's -- that's pretty much, like, some of the coolest parts about the Rapid Prototype Lab, right, is you got these simulators. And we just took you through launch, entry, and Pad Abort 1. And you can actually sit in the Rapid Prototype Lab and feel all of this kind of real time. You're not just doing the audio, but you're talking about the vibrations, the visuals, all these things, these elements so that the crew can actually learn what they're like. Jeff Fox: That's right. It's a good familiarization tool. If you haven't done it, you can get in there and it will kind of give you an idea. I think the thing that struck us was how many of those little attitude control jets fire and how much there is really happening there. Host: Yeah. Jeff Fox: That's not something you sit around and just think about. You think of a launch, it's a dull roar and it goes down. And you don't hear a lot of those things. But on the entry it's a whole different things, and you're hearing the pyrotechnics fire and seeing the parachute come out through the window. And totally different experience. We use that tool along with other simulators to help the crew get familiar with these flight phases or learn how to interface with the vehicle, the displays that we're building. So it's a great tool. Host: Exactly. I'm imagining, like, an emergency situation, too. Because if you're taking someone through the Rapid Prototype Lab and you know to listen for the thump, thump, thump, thump, you know, if something wasn't going right, you've actually lived it, you've experienced it. So you can actually report something, "Hey, maybe something's not going the way that I want or maybe we need to, you know, think about this emergency response scenario because this -- I'm not hearing or experiencing it the way that I experienced it in the Rapid Prototype Lab." Jeff Fox: That's exactly right. Host: That's awesome. And I'm sure a lot of these lessons learned are going to be taken on future missions, too. So where's Orion going next? Jeff Fox: So the next flight is an unmanned flight, EM-1 here in a few years here. Now we've got missions that are being defined, you know, in the vicinity of the moon or around the moon. So that's the next stop, you know, followed it a few years later by a crew potentially doing that same type of flight profile. And I think as time goes on we're going to get more clarification with our schedule and budgets and direction from the president and Congress. So, you know, where our next, you know, stops will be. And so we're excited for that. We're building the capability right now. We'll be ready to execute those missions. Host: That's right. It's just amazing talking to you and then all of these other Orion experts, you kind of get the whole picture of everything that's going into this, right? There's so many different elements and so many different people working on all of these different things that help to make this mission successful. So it's kind of exciting that when you see this -- this thing launch, you know, it just looks like a launch to you. But then you think about all the work and all the people that worked so hardly and diligently to make this moment possible. It's kind of -- it's kind of inspiring to see that thing on the launch pad -- or it will be when it finally does. I'm very excited for it. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and taking us through the super cool audio experience. I really truly felt like I was on Orion. That's the whole purpose -- that's really why I wanted to bring you in, is just I felt it, man. It's a different experience and you're right, it kind of helps with the training and understanding what this vehicle is all about and learning, bringing all these teams together so you can make it the best possible thing. So I appreciate you coming on today. Jeff Fox: Thank you for having me. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today we talked with Jeff Fox. And he took us through a ride on Orion. And it really felt like it, right? I hope you actually turned up the podcast volume whenever you were listening that stuff because especially if you have, like, a theatre or something, you can really feel it. We were in the studio editing this and it really felt like we were on that launch. Everything was vibrating. It was kind of awesome. So I hope you did that. If not, you can go back and listen to it. But if you want to see more on Orion, you can go to our website, NASA.gov/Orion. Actually, the Ascent Abort-2 capsule just arrived at the Johnson Space Center not too long ago and is being outfitted to start the next abort test mission. So it's kind of cool. Actually, if you go back to I think it's episode I want to say 25, the episode title is A Rocket on a Rocket, you can learn a little bit more about abort systems, launch abort systems. And we're going to be doing AA2 coming up here soon. Other than that, on NASA's website and anything Orion you can find on social media. You can go to the Orion pages on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. On Facebook, it's NASAOrion. Twitter it's @NASA_Orion. And then on Instagram it's @ExploreNASA actually is one of the channels that we have that has a little bit of Orion, a little bit of SLS. So you can see a lot of cool stuff there. You can use the #AskNASA on your favorite platform to submit ideas for the podcast. Maybe we'll answer it on one of the episodes or maybe we'll dedicate an entire episode to it. So this podcast was recorded on February 7th, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Greg Wiseman, Tommy Gerczak, Rachel Craft, Laura Rochon, Brandi Dean, Kelly Humphries, and Ryan Stewart. and I wanted to give my condolences to Jeff Fox. He was talking about his father, Mike Fox, during this podcast and just wanted to say rest in peace. He passed away very recently. And I wanted to thank Jeff again for coming on the show today. We'll be back next week.

Ep43 Diet like an Astronaut

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-05-04

Dan Huot (Host): Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center. This is episode 43, diet like an astronaut. I'm Dan Huot and I'll be your host today. And on this podcast we bring in the experts. NASA scientists. Engineers. Astronauts. Anybody who can let you know about the coolest stuff going on right here at NASA. Today we're talking about nutrition in space. More specifically, what the astronauts have to eat to stay healthy and functional during long-duration space flight. There's a lot of folks working on that right here at the NASA Johnson Space Center. Including my guest Dr. Scott Smith, NASA nutritionist and the manager for nutritional biochemistry. There's some pretty significant differences in the way astronauts have to eat in space versus the way we eat here on Earth. And so we sat down to learn more about what the body needs to thrive in space. And how we're preparing to tackle some big challenges for future long-duration missions into deep space. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Scott Smith. Enjoy. [ Music ] All right, I'm here with Dr. Scott Smith. Scott, you're the, can I call you Scott? Scott Smith: You can call me Scott. Host: Scott, just for the sake of keeping things easy. So you're the manager, and this is a mouthful as so of our guests are, for nutritional biochemistry. You're a NASA nutritionist. Start me off. What does that mean? What does your job kind of encompass here? Scott Smith: Well, the nutrition biochemistry lab is responsible for, in essence, keeping crews healthy from a nutrition point of view. So we are not the food lab. I'm always very quick to point out we don't make the Tang. I don't have anything to do with the food. Our job is to understand what the body needs. And we provide data to the food lab that crew members need this many calories and this much protein. Or this much carbohydrate. Or this much vitamin A. Or vitamin E. Or vitamin D. Or iron. Copper. Sodium. Zinc. You name it. So we're really the nutrient end of things. And we do work with the crews to make sure they're eating well. And then we try to study the body during flight. In ground analogs to try to understand how we can modify nutrition to help keep crews healthier during space flight. Host: And it kind of amazes me that you go so in depth, you know. You're not, the astronauts aren't just counting calories. You're counting everything for them. And, I mean, is this something we've always been doing with space flight? Scott Smith: Well, nutrition's always been important, first of all. And, no. In many cases on most flights, we've not annoyed the crew with nutrition. Recently, about a year and a half ago, we flew an iPad app to the station that allows the crews to track their dietary intake. And they report literally everything they eat. Every single day, every single meal, they go into the app and enter what foods they ate. Which gives them a real-time look on the iPad of how many calories they're getting. Are they getting enough fluid? Are they getting too much sodium? But as you inferred, we get those data on the ground. And we work that out to 180 different nutrients of, all the way down into the grid. We were looking at iodine data this morning, to give you an idea. And really, when you talk about human health and you talk about what we're trying to do, nutrition becomes very, very important. Host: I mean, especially when they're up there for a really long time I would imagine. [ Multiple Speakers ] Scott Smith: Absolutely, absolutely. And, indeed, on shuttle missions, nutrition was important. But we always looked at nutrition as a camping trip on a shuttle flight. That, you know, you could eat pretty much anything for two weeks and get away with it. When you're up there for a month or three months, six months, it's important. And as we look to go off beyond low Earth orbit at two and three years Mar's missions. If you run out of a nutrient on one of those missions, you're going to be in trouble. Host: And so we talked a little bit before this. And, I mean, this is something people have been paying attention to as long as humans have been exploring; right? I mean, you almost don't think about it. But then there's some pretty real examples that people will remember. Scott Smith: Absolutely. And I don't think they realized it. Much like today, they didn't appreciate nutrition. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: You know, and I would say that everybody can see we're going to fly food on space missions because you got to fly food. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: But the idea that we need to pay attention to what's in the food gets lost on a lot of people. And I always say, you know, if you look back through the history books, nutrition in and of itself made or broke many of those exploration missions here on Earth. Host: Like what? Scott Smith: Well, the classic example is always scurvy, vitamin C deficiency. And, you know, if you look at the time span between Columbus' trip and the invention of the steam engine. It's about a 400-year block there. Scurvy killed mover than 2 million sailors. Host: Really? Scott Smith: And it's estimated that scurvy killed more sailors than all other causes of death combined. And there were ships that went out with hundreds that came back with tens. It was that big a deal. Host: And it all came back to what they were eating? Scott Smith: It all came back to what they were eating and what they weren't eating. That they weren't getting any or enough sources of vitamin C. Host: And what did they ultimately do to solve that? I mean, I think we usually heard like starting eat, start carrying oranges and lemons and stuff; right? [ Multiple Speakers ] Scott Smith: Exactly. Scott Smith: The British were called limeys because they used to bring limes on the voyages. Because they realized that it was something in the citrus fruit. It wasn't until the 1900s that they actually isolated and realized what that chemical compound was. But they knew it was in citrus fruit. Host: But, I mean, even back then there were kind of attempts to figure out, okay, you know, my ship is coming back a whole lot lighter than it left. Scott Smith: Indeed. Host: Why the heck is that happening? Scott Smith: And, again, over those 400 years there were advances and setbacks. Even after there was evidence that citrus fruit were the key, there were some captains that insisted that that was not it. That they maintained that fresh meat and clean kitchens, clean galleys was going to solve this. And then went out and found out the hard way that that was not true. And my suspicion is that fresh meat came from the fact that, you know, on those ships, when they had grain and food stored. They'd had rats stowaway on the ship. And they would catch the rats. And some of the crew would eat the rats. And the crews that ate the rats tended to do better. Because rats do not need vitamin C in their diet. Rats can make vitamin C. Host: Really? Scott Smith: So if you ate the rat, it was an analogous to eating an orange. Probably a little chewier. But those crews tended to do better. And it wasn't until they put all that together. Well, I'm not sure they ever put the rat thing together. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: But, again, that was missing one single nutrient. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: If we, on a three-year mission, run out of any vitamin, any mineral, it's going to be a bad trip. Host: Well, luckily, we've come a whole lot further in the field of nutritional science since then. Scott Smith: Indeed. Host: So what are, you've been doing this for a while now. What, I mean, so you're doing it with station now. But you mentioned shuttle. What were some of the kind of the early steps that you were taking in this field with space flight? Scott Smith: Well, we use any opportunity we can to try to understand how the body changes in weightlessness. We use a lot of analogs. We use things like bed-rest studies. Where we put people to bed for weeks or months on end, trying to see how the body changes in, with disuse. We've looked at vitamin D studies in the Antarctic, where people don't get sunlight. Like on spacecraft. So we study wherever and whatever we can to try to glean information about how the body changes. And how we can use nutrition to help mitigate negative effects of space flight or to optimize crew health. So we've done some studies on short-duration shuttle missions. But it wasn't until we started long-duration flights that we really started to worry about nutrient requirements and what crews needed to eat. And our first foray into that was the phase one program on the Russian space station Mir. And we did some studies there looking at things like calcium. And red blood cell metabolism. And fluid homeostasis. And then with the advent of, with the launch of Expedition One, we've been doing nutritional work in some form or other on every mission since then. So we do nutritional assessments on the space station crews. We're sort of the working for the flight surgeon. We collect data on the crews before flight. During flight. And after flight. To make sure that we send astronauts up there as healthy as can be. That we track them while they're up there to make sure they're staying healthy. And then when they land, we go off and we collect blood samples and urine samples to see if there are any decrements. That we work with the rehabilitation team to get crews back to full health as quickly as possible. Host: Well, what have you seen? So you've been doing this on station for a long time now. You did some stuff on Mir. What have you guys kind of, what did you start out looking for kind of? What is the body needing in microgravity that it's not, it wasn't necessarily getting? Or how did nutrition, let me put it this way. How did nutrition requirements change for an astronaut as opposed to, you know, me down here on planet Earth? Or do they? Scott Smith: There are a few nuanced differences. But really many of the basics still apply. When I meet with the crews before flight, the first thing I tell he them is that, if there's only one thing I can tell you, it's that you need to eat during flight. And that sounds ridiculous, but you need to maintain your body mass. You need to get enough calories in you to maintain your body mass. If you're doing that, that is 70 percent of the battle. And the reason for that is that, if you're getting enough calories, everything else follows calories. So if you're getting enough calories, you're probably getting enough of the body weight. You're probably getting enough of the minerals. You're probably getting enough fluid. And when we get caloric intake right, then we start to look at other things. Like are you getting enough protein? Are you getting enough calcium? Are you getting enough potassium? And we start to fine tune. But really maintaining body mass is goal one. We know from many flights that, if you lose weight during flight, that you'll lose more bone than you want to. You'll lose more muscle than you need to. Your cardiovascular system doesn't like it. There's more oxidative damage that occurs if you're not getting enough calories. So there's a lot of negative things that come along with weight loss in astronauts. And I always say this is not the weight loss program you want to go on. Over the years, early on in the Mir program, in the early station, we saw a lot of crews lose weight. There were a lot of people that maintained that, well, astronauts just lose weight in flight. We need to accept that that's normal. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: And I always fault that. And it wasn't until, in 2008 was when we flew the, what we call the ARED, the advanced resistive exercise device. That device that allowed really heavy resistive exercise. And what we showed in the first crews that used that was that, if you ate well. Maintained your body mass. Had good vitamin D status. And exercised hard. You could maintain your bone mineral density. And my throw down on there was always that in 50 years of flying people in space, that was the first time we ever saw crews coming back with the same bone mineral density they left with. Host: And it was by actually paying attention to. [ Multiple Speakers ] Scott Smith: Nutrition and exercise. Host: Every factor not just accepting, hey, this is something we got to live with. Scott Smith: Exactly, exactly. And, you know, the adage always is that, you know, good nutrition won't make you an Olympic athlete. But if you're an Olympic athlete, bad nutrition will ruin you. And it's the same mantra. That, you know, we come up with an exercise that does a really good job of fixing muscle loss. Host: Yeah, yeah. Scott Smith: But if you're not providing enough fuel to support that exercise, that exercise won't work. Host: And then how are you guys actually making sure that the crew members are getting what they need? Scott Smith: We, in two ways. Again, we have an iPad app that the crews track dietary intake. That allows them to see literally at lunchtime what they need to eat for dinner to get enough calories. It's got a little bar at the bottom of the page that starts off at red. And as they eat more calories, it turns to green. So we push them daily, hour by hour to get to the top of that bar. We track their body mass. And if they're losing weight, again, that's the tell. And we've had some crew members that, you know, when we say you're not eating enough. You're not getting enough calories. They will, you know, push back and say, look, I feel fine. You know, I feel like I'm eating enough. I don't know what you're talking about. I always tell them, if you're losing weight, I'm right. That it's possible your metabolic rate is different. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: Maybe lower than it is on Earth. Or lower than we think it is. But, again, the body weight is the tell. That, if you're body mass is going down, there's something wrong. And one of the things that we've come to, and I don't have data to back this up. But I think one of the things that happens during flight is that food doesn't settle in your stomach the same way as it does on Earth. Host: Really? Scott Smith: So as you eat here on Earth, eventually your stomach will tell your brain that you're full. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: In space what I think what happens is because the food in your stomach is experiencing the same weightlessness, it probably is stretching that stomach more. So hitting the top of your stomach more, which is, signals your brain that you're done. Even though you haven't really eaten that much. And I tell crews, again, you've got to get food in you. And if you're losing weight, you either need to push more food in even when you think you're full. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: Or you need to eat more meals. You need to spread it out during the day and snack more. Or whatever it takes to get more calories in you. Host: It's actually interesting. We've been asked that question before. You know, does the digestive system change at all? And it's always kind of a, no, we don't think so. So that might actually be out there still. So we're still learning stuff. Scott Smith: Exactly, exactly. Host: Are there foods that you try to make them eat more of? Eat less of? Because, I mean, everything's pretty regulated, I would imagine. Scott Smith: Well, there's a couple ways to answer that. We, the food system is somewhat limited. And it is repetitive. So every eight days or so they change out the containers and get a new set of the same thing every eight days. So there's not a lot we can tell them to do. And for a lot of reasons we don't, you know, obviously, I try not to nag them on, you know, I don't want to be the guy telling them to eat more broccoli. Especially if they hate broccoli. But trying to get a balanced meal in them. And trying, you know, one of the challenges we have is getting enough food up there. Enough variety of food that each individual crew member can find enough things that will make them happy. So for the crew, if it doesn't like broccoli, will they eat asparagus? Will they eat green beans? Will they eat something else? Because you got to get something green in you no matter what. As we look out to exploration missions and the challenges there, we want an optimal diet. We want an optimized diet. And in our view that means more fruits and vegetables. Which have phytochemicals that come along with that. It means more sources of omega three fatty acids. So things like salmon and fish and walnuts. And, again, doing what we can with that personal choice of making sure the crews are interested enough in eating that they're going to eat. You know, again, go back to their eight-day rotating menu. I would say, if you pick your eight favorite days of food and you cycle it enough, after enough times you're going to get bored. I don't care if it's steak and lobster and whatever else. Whatever it is you like. Host: I feel like I've already been doing that the last five years of my life. Scott Smith: If you eat the same thing every Tuesday. Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scott Smith: Sooner or later we know you get bored of that. Host: I think every college student can attest to that. Scott Smith: Exactly. You can only do ramen so many days in a row. Host: Well, so what about, you know, the future? What are you guys already looking at that you're considering is going to have to change upwind. Because we have crew members up in the air for six months. We had Scott Kelly up there for a year. Scott Smith: Yeah. Host: What's going to change in the world of nutrition? What are you guys, you know, not necessarily worried about. But what problems are you already trying to solve? Or anticipating if someone's going to be up there for two, three years at a time? Scott Smith: We're still, there's a number of serious health concerns that we worry about. That, again, a six-month mission is worse than a three-month mission is worse than a two-week mission. And then when you add in a year or two-year mission, it just, it exacerbates that. We worry about things like bone loss. And muscle loss. And how your cardiovascular system works. We worry about the immune system function. And all four of those are intertwined with nutrition. We know, if you don't eat well, your immune system function doesn't work as well. We know from our work in the Antarctic that, if you are stressed and you're vitamin D status is low. You will reactivate more viruses, which is a function of your immune system, than you want. Your behavior. Your performance. Your morale are all based on how well you're eating. How well you're sleeping goes hand in hand with how well you're eating. So lots of different months of human adaptation rely on a good food system and good food intake. And then you take into account the fact that you're in a spacecraft. You're in microgravity. The air is closed. So any contaminants in the air can alter that. There's some things, you know, high levels of carbon dioxide can affect different nutrient metabolism. It can affect bone loss. Different chemicals and contaminants in the air can affect nutrient requirements like folate. And other vitamins can be exacerbated by that. And one of the bigger, if not the biggest issue we chase is radiation. And that's one of those things that, again, it's, radiation exposure is higher on station than it is on Earth. But when you leave the protection of low Earth orbit, it gets really bad. So radiation exposure on a moon mission or Mars mission and how we protect from that is going to be serious. Host: And that's something nutrition can help address? Scott Smith: That is something that nutrition can help address. Host: How? Scott Smith: When you look at, you know, studies on the ground. People that eat more broccoli and cauliflower, cruciferous vegetables, get less cancer. Host: Wow. Scott Smith: Do we know exactly why? No, we do not. And we, you know, people are always looking for what vitamin is it that I can take a pill of that will mitigate that? We don't have that yet. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: And there's been a number of studies done where for a while we thought vitamin A was going to cure cancer. Vitamin E was going to cure cancer. And we did long-term prospective studies where, you know, ten-year studies where we looked at vitamin E supplementation. Or vitamin A supplementation. Beta carotene supplementation. And when they do those big studies, big controlled studies, what they find is that taking vitamins does not mitigate that risk. But, again, when you compare to people that eat more vegetables, they get less cancer. Now, there's a couple things intertwined in there that you need to be careful of. One is that there are thousands of these, what we call phytochemicals that occur in things like broccoli. And we don't understand all of them. So it may be that it's not just vitamin E or vitamin A. Host: It's some mix of. Scott Smith: It's some mix of those other things. The other thing is that the more broccoli you eat, the fewer french fries you eat. The fewer, less red meat you eat. Host: That's true. Scott Smith: And those things likely antagonize oxidative damage and cancer incidence. So it really, you know, I always hate to say it, but your mother was right. And eating your vegetables really does matter. Host: I'll make sure they does not listen to this podcast. Well, so what are some of the other major changes for when we have people in space for a really long time? One thing that I have written down here, need less iron and sodium. Now, why does that happen? What is the body going through that that becomes the case? Scott Smith: Two different things there. One, with iron, your iron stores go up during space flight because your blood volume contracts. So when you go into space flight, that, what happens is your blood volume goes down by about 10 to 15 percent. Host: Really? Scott Smith: Yeah. And, again, I don't have date to back this up exactly. But what I think happens, the way I explain this in my head is that it's easier for the body to pump blood to your toenails than it is on Earth. You don't have gravity fighting against you, so it's easier to pump the blood. You don't have blood pooling in your, you know, in your feet. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: So your body can get away with a smaller blood volume. And what happens because of that is your blood volume contracts, again, by about 10 or 15 percent. What happens is, as you breakdown the red blood cells you don't need, you put that iron into stores, okay. So you don't need as much iron as you need on Earth, first of all. Second of all, when you have higher iron stores, and we know this from a lot of studies on Earth that have nothing to do with space flight. Higher iron stores are associated with higher oxidative damage in tissues. And we've actually shown that with high, the astronauts that have higher iron stores. Because they ate more iron. Because they had higher stores to begin with, have more oxidative damage to their DNA. And have more bone loss secondary to that oxidative stress. So we try to minimize the amount of iron they're getting in their diet. Now, that's not to say, you know, we'd be happy with the RDA. Which is about 8 or 10 milligrams of iron per day. The standard food system right now has about 25 milligrams a day. And depending on how each astronaut picks their food, if you pick foods that are, you know, either high in iron. Like sources of meat. Or fortified foods like breakfast drinks. And cereals that are fortified with iron. We've seen crews get 30, 40, 50 milligrams of iron a day. Which is a good four or five, six times the RDA. Host: What's RDA? Scott Smith: The recommended dietary allowance. Host: Okay. Scott Smith: So that's the, you know, when you look at the food package in the grocery store. Host: Yep. Scott Smith: It's based on your typical dietary intake, if you will. Host: Got you. Scott Smith: So we're not looking to reduce iron below what your average person needs. But on Earth we tend to worry about the opposite. We worry about people being iron deficient. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: Most nutrients follow what we call a bell-shaped curve. That is, that at the bottom end of the bell-shaped curve, you don't want to be in the bottom 5 percent. [ Multiple Speakers ] But the reality is you don't want to be, you don't to have too much either. Host: Yep. Scott Smith: And we're starting to see that in terrestrial science that individuals that have higher iron stores have higher cardiovascular diseases. Have higher cerebrovascular diseases. That is, blood vessel changes and brain changes. And, again, we're seeing decrements, problems with having too much iron that are just as bad as problems of having too little iron. Sodium, on the other hand, is one of those things that we worry about crews using too much sodium for the same reason as on Earth. Because too much sodium is bad for you. Host: But it tastes so good. Scott Smith: And that is the problem. Not only that it tastes really good, but it's cheap. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: So if you want to make something taste better and not cost much, throw some salt on it. Host: A little bit of salt, yeah. Scott Smith: You could do the same thing with spices. Spices are a lot more expensive. So if you're a food company trying to make whatever, macaroni and cheese. You know, or soup. Or whatever you want. It's much cheaper and much more palatable to add sodium to it. Host: But you're not watching out for sodium for any particular reason when [inaudible]? [ Multiple Speakers ] Scott Smith: Well, one of the key, well, there's several things we're concerned about. On Earth, with sodium, we worry about blood pressure. And we're not worried about that in astronauts. Because blood pressure actually is a little bit lower during flight. The astronauts, by virtue of the selection process, typically don't have blood pressure issues. High sodium levels are bad for bone, which is something we're concerned about. And there's the potential that high sodium intakes can exacerbate some of the fluid volume issues. And some of the eye issues that have jumped up in recent years. And that is one of the reasons why we reformulated our food system, I think about five years ago now, to be much lower in sodium than it was. So we actually reduced the sodium content of the space foods by about 40 percent compared to what they were to try to help with some of these health issues. And the big one was, the big driver was eye issues. Host: Eye issues. So we've talked about bone and muscles. And even radiation. But the vision issues. So, and for those that don't know, some of the astronauts actually experience a loss in their visual acuity. Their vision gets worse over long-duration space flight. And then it always doesn't get better; is that correct? Scott Smith: That's exactly right. That we, I'll say around eight years ago or so, nine years ago realized that we had some crew members coming back having had eye and vision issues. I say vision issues because it's easier to say than ophthalmologic issues. Host: That is easier. Scott Smith: And in some cases it's a change in what we call refraction. Which is your ability to focus. Some of them are a little more nuanced than that. Where, when the eye docs do an examine of the astronauts after flight, they see changes in the back of the eye that some astronauts have had, but didn't realize they had. So it's not necessarily perceptible by the astronaut. But there's a varied pattern of five or so different things that occur with the eye. Changes in ability to focus. Changes in the back of the eye, what they called cotton wool spots. Which are little spots that occur on the back of the eye. Changes in the shape of the eye. Number of things going on. As I said, up until about seven, eight, nine years ago, we didn't realize that was a problem. Now, when that came up, we all collectively blustered down the intracranial pressure pathway, as I call it. That is, the thinking was, the theory was that, when you go into space flight, the fluid shifts. And you get more blood and fluid up into your head. That that pressure inside your head pushes on the back of your eye. Pushes on your optic nerve. And that intracranial pressure leads to these eye changes. Now, what is important to keep in mind, and the drum I continually bang is what you said at the outset. Which is some astronauts develop this. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: It's not all of them. Host: It's not. Scott Smith: So it can't just be as simple as, when you go into flight, the fluid goes up, pushes on your eye. Host: Because they all have that. Host: Right. They all have that. We at one point, and there's still some thinking that it might be related to carbon dioxide. Because carbon dioxide in the air is higher during space flight than it is on Earth. The cabin on, the cabin CO2 on ISS is higher than the CO2 you and I are breathing. Maybe not in this room. Host: There's good airflow in here. It's a small room. There's good airflow. Scott Smith: Okay. No worries. It may be CO2. It may be fluid shifts. It may be something else. But what we always come back to is that it is only affecting some of the astronauts. Now, when this came up, we went to the flight docs and said, look, you know, we've got a lot of data. We've done this experiment on space station. We've collected blood. We've collected urine. We've looked at a lot of nutritional markers and biochemistry markers. Maybe we have something that could help understand this. And when we dug into the data, and today's February 16th. It was February 18th of 2011 that my colleague Sarah [inaudible] came into my office and said there's something going on with one carbon metabolism. And without boring you with all the details, what she found was differences in the blood biochemistry of the astronauts that had these vision issues before flight. Host: Before flight. Scott Smith: Before flight we saw differences in the blood in astronauts that subsequently developed eye issues. Host: So with that you could potentially tell before somebody even went into space. Scott Smith: Indeed. Host: Whether or not they have that issue. Scott Smith: Indeed. So we followed up on that. We presented that to life sciences management. We ruled out as many things as we could. You know, the possibility that it was vitamin deficiencies. Or kidney function. Or all these different things. We ruled those all out. And what we then hypothesized was that it was related to genetics. That there were genetic differences, in the literature we knew there were genetic differences that affected the chemicals we were looking at. And these affect the population. That's sort of like blood types. That people have different blood types. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: You're either blood type A or B or O. It's not a good blood type or a bad blood type, there's just different blood types. There's differences in genetics that affect these chemicals. And we hypothesized that that may be why these chemical differences are there. And there may be something related to that which is causing those individuals to be predisposed to developing these eye issues on space station. So we did a study where we proposed looking at a handful of these genetic differences. We sat down with 70 astronauts and said, you know, look, here's the story. Here's the data we've got. Here's the theory. We'd like to collect some blood from you and look at your genes. We said it was 70 astronauts, and all 70 of them agreed to give us blood. Which gives you an idea of how compelling the story was to them. And how big a deal this is to astronauts. And how much they want to understand this to figure this out. Host: I always say they're incredibly selfless because they're basically guinea pigs. Scott Smith: Yeah, absolutely. Host: While they're up there. Scott Smith: Absolutely. [ Multiple Speakers ] Host: So it's incredible that they're. Scott Smith: And the astronauts as a whole are great about doing experiments. But I always, you know, I've always said, all the astronauts will never agree to anything. That, you know, there's always 95 percent of them. There's always one or two, they're like, well, I don't like to collect blood or. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: Cardiovascular study. Or I don't want to do that sleep study. I've never even everybody sign up for a study until now. Host: And so it's still ongoing? Scott Smith: It, we're in stage two now. But when we collected the blood, we did a small look at the genetics. And found, indeed, that there was a genetic predisposition for some astronauts to develop these eye issues. And we now need to follow up on that. We're doing some more extended work. Again, I can talk to you a long time about that. But I'd be more boring than I already am. And it gets pretty gnarly into the genetics and the biochemistry. But I am convinced that we are at the cusp of this thing. And if we can work it out to where we can study this in a little more detail, that we will solve this problem. Host: Wow. Scott Smith: To where we can get into what we call personalized medicine. And we can look and say, okay, we know these individuals are going to be, are at risk of this developing. Here's how we go try to counteract that. Host: Really? And so that's the important part. Is it's not identifying, hey, this is going to happen to you. It's, hey, this might happen to you, and this is how we stop it. [ Multiple Speakers ] Scott Smith: And here's how we fix it. Absolutely. Host: And so we've come all the way from why is half of my ship dying from some crazy thing. To now we're looking at eyes. So it seems like, obviously, it's a constantly evolving field. Are there other things or anything on the horizon that you think you're going to be diving into next? Scott Smith: Well, right now the vision thing is, as I call it, is the biggest thing we're chasing. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: And that is one of the top concerns that NASA management has in terms of health risks. One of the interesting spinoffs of the work that we've done is that, is we wrote up the genetic data. We published that in a scientific paper. One of the realizations we came to was that the astronauts that developed these vision issues had a long list of characteristics. This chemistry. The genetics. Changes in their retinal nerves. Changes in some of their hormones. There was a list of about eight or nine things that we had that we found a clinical population that had the exact same set of characteristics. And that is women with polycystic ovary syndrome. Host: Really? Scott Smith: Really. Polycystic ovary syndrome, or PCOS as they call it, is the leading cause of infertility in women. It affects 10 to 20 percent of women. Which is a staggering incidence. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: And what we maintain is that, you know, I talked a lot about analogs. That we look at the Antarctic as analog to study vitamin D. Or we look at bed rest as an analog for studying bone loss. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: We maintain that women with polycystic ovary syndrome might be the analog population we need to study to figure out what's different about them. And how that relates to astronauts during space flight. Host: Go you. I was wondering, like, what, so if you find that out, what's the purpose of finding that out [inaudible]? Scott Smith: Because we can then study their cardiovascular function. We can study their eyes. We can study, you know, different elements of their physiology to understand what's different about them. Because, theoretically, if we flew women with PCOS in space, again theoretically, they would all develop these eye issues. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: We've started a study that we're doing with the Mayo Clinic up in Minnesota. Working with an endocrinologist who specializes in PCOS and a neuroophthalmologist. Which is even harder to say. A neuroophthalmologist that specializes in intracranial hypertension. And they're off recruiting women with PCOS. Patients with intracranial hypertension. Where they're collecting blood and shipping them to us and doing eye exams. And, again, we hope to piece together the first bits of that. So we can then test our hypotheses for what we think is the relationship between your genetics and your eyes. And how those change during space flight. So that, you know, again, ultimately those studies can help us better understand how to prevent astronauts from having eye issues. The more staggering thing is that we might be able to help terrestrial medicine to understand how to better treat individuals with that syndrome. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: And I'm always struck by one of the cases where we published the genetic data back in 2016. And when we published the paper, NASA put a story on the web about, you know, that we published the study. And what we found and what it meant. And I got an e-mail from a woman working at one of the other NASA centers who asked if we'd looked at this one eye issue called papilledema. And I said, well, in our paper we called it choroidal folds. But I'm told they're about the same thing. But, yes, we did and here's a copy of the paper. And she wrote back and said. Well, to share too much, I six, seven years ago was diagnosed with papilledema. That there was some sort of pressure pushing on the back of my eye that they couldn't figure out why. Along the way I was diagnosed with B12 deficiency. Which is one of the things intertwined with the genetics we're looking at. And, oh, yeah, by the way, she's got PCOS. Host: Wow. Scott Smith: And that could be a coincidence. I don't think so. Host: Wow. Scott Smith: And she said, when she had mentioned to her physicians that maybe these things were interrelated. And she said they scoffed at her and said, no, that can't be. So, again, we talk a lot about spinoffs from the space program. It is mind-boggling to think that by studding this in more depth. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: We might be able to help 10 to 20 percent of the population. Host: Wow. Well, wow, I've said that like a million times already. But, wow. [ Multiple Speakers ] Host: Keep going. Host: So besides the vision, everything that we've been learning on the space station about trying to solve the vision issue. Bones. Muscle. And cardiovascular everything. How are you feeling with what we know right now about supporting the nutrition for our crews, say going to Mars? Going into space for two years? Scott Smith: Again, the human research program has a top four, if you will. And I don't mean to speak for HRP, but their top four our radiation. Behavior and performance. Vision. And food. And I say food intentionally. It's not nutrition. Because the reality is for a Mars mission, the food is probably going to go to Mars before the crew leaves Earth. So we need to have a food system that is stable for five years. Meaning you could go to the grocery store right now. Pack your pantry. And in five years still be eating that food. And make sure that it's got everything you need in it. Host: And I imagine there's a million and one challenges. [ Multiple Speakers ] Scott Smith: And it's extremely tough to do. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: It's extremely tough to do. The food system folks are working really hard on developing foods that are more stable. Working on packaging that will help facilitate that. But, again, when you think about it, when you find something in the back of your pantry that's been in there are for a while. It's got an expiration date on it. The expiration date is because it probably doesn't taste that good. The reason it probably doesn't taste that good after that date is because the nutrients that are in there break down and make other chemicals that aren't what they were supposed to be. So it tastes funky or it looks funky. So from a pure food point of view, there's a lot of issues. From a nutrition point of view, we need to make sure we've got the basics down. One of the nice things we have on space station is that, every time a vehicle goes up, there's some fresh food in there. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: There's, you know, oranges. And lemons. And apples. And different types of fruits and vegetables. Host: Got to stave off the scurvy. Scott Smith: Exactly. And we really don't know how much that little bit of fresh food mitigates concerns we have about the rest of the food system. We're not going to have the ability to do that with a Mars crew. So we need to be very sure of that. We need to make very sure the food, again, is good enough that the crew's going to want to eat it. We're going to make sure that the crew is motivated enough that they're going to want to eat it. That they're exercising hard enough to maintain their body to keep, again, that whole thing going. So it, you know, when you look at scientists, we all tend to focus on our little system. So there's a bone lab. And a muscle lab. And a cardiovascular lab. And a nutrition lab. We're dealing with a human. And that whole thing has to work. And that still gives me a significant amount of pause. We don't really know what extent the effects of the radiation system are going to be. Chronic, relatively low dose, but much higher than on Earth. Levels of radiation for long periods of time can affect, you know, I was at a meeting last week where the radiation folks talked about that. And talked about how, you know, you get dementia-like problems with extended radiation exposure. And, again, from a nutrition point of view, I will tell you that in the elderly with dementia and cognition problems, folate. Which is one of the vitamins, vitamin B12 are key nutrients when it comes to cognition. And one of the things that we think is going on is that radiation affects the ability to get those vitamins into the brain. So there are a lot of challenges ahead of us that we really do not understand. If we had a vehicle that was ready to go tomorrow. We had a food system that was ready to go tomorrow. Do we know enough about what it really is going to take to protect crews on a three-year trip to Mars? Those really are scary questions. Host: Yeah. Scott Smith: Really they are. Host: Well, luckily we still got an International Space Station and some time to figure all that out. I've taken up a bunch of your time. Anything else that I didn't hit on that you're dying to go tell the world about nutritional biochemistry? Scott Smith: No. I think we've hit most of the key points. We, you know, are working as hard as we can. And I always like to step back from the realization that, you know, I get to come sit here with you and tell you the great stuff we're doing. Realize I've got a lab full of folks that are back at the lab working hard. That are doing the really hard work. And they should get most of the credit. But I don't let them out of the lab so, you know, they're working. But it really is a phenomenal team effort that helps to bring all this together. Host: How's their vitamin D intake? Scott Smith: We let them out in the sun every once in a while. But it is a tremendous team effort within our group. And then we work with a number of other groups. We work with the cardiovascular lab to try to understand a lot of the cardiovascular and vision issues that we've talked about. Work with the immune lab. Work with the muscle lab. We work with a lot of other folks. There really is a tremendous team environment trying to pull this thing together. It's not, really is not just me. Host: Well, you're all doing some incredible work right now. And looking forward to the next breakthroughs in the years to come. Scott Smith: Thanks. Host: And what the future holds. Again, I was just talking with Dr. Scott Smith, the manager of nutritional biochemistry here at the Johnson Space Center. Scott, thanks so much for joining me today. Scott Smith: Thank you. [ Music ] Host: Hey, everyone. Thanks for sticking around to the end. If you liked that, go check out all of the earlier episodes of, Houston, we had a podcast. And check out some of our other NASA podcasts. Like gravity assist and NASA in Silicon Valley to learn even more about what NASA's doing right now. To learn more about the International Space Station, which is the focus on a lot of our stuff here at the Johnson Space Center. You can always go to nasa.gov/iss. Or follow us on social media. We have a Facebook page. A Twitter page @space underscore station. And on Instagram at ISS. And on any of those platforms, you can use the hashtag ask NASA to submit your idea for a potential podcast. This podcast was recorded on February 16th. Special thanks to Kathy Reeves. Kelly Humphries. Isidro Reyna. Greg Wiseman. And Gary Jordan. And, of course, to my guest Dr. Scott Smith for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

"Oh yeah, they're looking": A thematic analysis of indoor UV tanning industry advertising and articles.

PubMed

Prior, Suzanne M; Rafuse, Lindsay P

2016-02-01

Skin cancers are becoming more prevalent even though many can be prevented. Women are more knowledgeable than men about skin cancer, yet they are more likely to sunbathe deliberately and to use artificial tanning equipment. The purpose of this article is to examine messages that women receive about the benefits of a tan. Particularly, we focused on how the indoor UV tanning industry represents the value of a tan to women. We subjected five issues of Smart Tan Canada to thematic analysis. We examined language in advertisements and articles that promote an artificial tan to women. Four themes emerged: Be Beautiful and Sexy; Look Young; Feel Better; and Science, Health, and Nature. These themes are especially effective in a culture that routinely objectifies women and places a high degree of value on their appearance. We suggest that appearance-based interventions, media literacy training, and legislation could counteract the messages in the themes.

hwhwap_ep33_zero-g_workout

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-02-23

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 33: The Zero-G Workout. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So on this podcast, we bring in the experts -- NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts -- all to let you know the coolest information about what's going on right here at NASA. So today, we're talking about how zero g affects the human body and what we can do about it. So working on this very problem is Dr. Andrea Hanson, who's the International Space Station Exercise Countermeasures Operations Ops Lead. Phew. Oh, there's more -- within Human Physiology, Performance Protection, and Operations Lab. There it is. She's got a big title and a big job here at the Johnson Space Center. So basically, bad stuff can happen to the human body when astronauts are in space for a long time, and countermeasures are just a way to prevent that stuff from happening. Of course, I had to ask her for some exercise tips, but, more importantly, she described what happens to the human body in zero gravity, what NASA is doing about it, and how we can use this knowledge to go deeper into space. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Andrea Hanson. Enjoy. [ Music ] Host: Andrea, thanks so much for coming on today to talk about exercise physiology on the Space Station. I was really excited to talk about this specific topic personally because exercise is kind of, I personally like exercising and take a lot of the things that I do in the gym based off of what is being done in space, so thank you again for coming on. Andrea Hanson: Yeah, thanks for having me. Host: Okay, so one of the big problems that we are facing and the, basically, what you are addressing is microgravity does not agree with the human body when it's up there for a long time, right? So what's going on there? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. So the body responds pretty immediately to living in the microgravity environment through going through a series of adaptations to adapt to this new sensation of free float. And those adaptations happen pretty immediately. Upon getting into outer space, that you experience fluid shifts, and that might cause, like, a stuffy head sensation and maybe even some slight motion sickness in the first day or two. But the spine starts to elongate, and, immediately, all those little mechanosensors that tell your body it needs to keep strong to even stand up straight, go up and down stairs, sit in a chair, and stand up again, they start to turn off, and that's where we start to see the muscle strength losses and bone atrophy that we know our astronauts can experience, even at as soon as two weeks in space. Host: Wow. Okay, so some of this is happening immediately. Some of this, as soon as you get up there, all of these, like, what's happening immediately, and then what is gradually happening over time? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. So immediately, astronauts will start to experience those fluid shifts. Host: Oh, that's the first thing. Okay. And then, so then, the, I think the equilibrium, basically, your equilibrium is one of the first thing that shuts off too, right? Andrea Hanson: It sure is. Host: Yeah. Andrea Hanson: And you lose that sense of balance because, well, there's nowhere to fall in microgravity. [laughter] Host: Okay, so then, basically, what, how is microgravity, basically, how, what is causing this problem, this, the reason why you are losing muscle and bones? Is it a little bit because you're not really using it as much? Andrea Hanson: That's exactly it. It's that principle of, you don't use it, you lose it. And you know, being an enthusiast at the gym, [laughs] that if you stop a regular exercise program even for a week or two, it can get, be really hard to get back into the gym. Host: Oh, that is the worst part about going to the gym is, if you take that break, it's really hard to get back into it. Andrea Hanson: It sure is. And not only is it hard to get back into it, but you do notice some immediate losses in strength and maybe aerobic fitness if you do take those breaks. So it's kind of the same thing. When you go into outer space, you just don't have those regular stressors on the body that you do living in the one-g environment. And again, the body responds to that really quickly. Host: Absolutely. And basically, the longer you're in space, the more it affects you, right? Andrea Hanson: It sure does. And so we have to develop a series of what we call countermeasures to fight against this sensation of not needing to maintain muscle strength or bone health to make sure that when our astronauts come back to Earth, they're in good shape to resume normal daily life again. Host: And that's basically where you come in, right? This is the countermeasures that you're talking about. We have this issue. There is this idea that your muscles are degrading, your bones are not as healthy, right, you're starting to see that loss within those, that parts of your body, so a countermeasure is basically a way to prevent that. So what are some of the countermeasures we're seeing? Andrea Hanson: Great question. We use exercise as kind of the foundational countermeasure to a lot of those adaptations that the body goes through. And right now, we have a really robust gym on the Space Station. We're pretty lucky. We have a treadmill. We have a exercise bike. And we have a really neat device we call the Advanced Resistive Exercise Device, or the ARED, and that's for strength training. Host: Okay, so how does that work? How do you lift weights in a microgravity environment? Andrea Hanson: [laughs] Yeah, that, it's almost a trick question, isn't it? [laughter] Because if you were to bring a 50-pound dumbbell up into space, of course, it wouldn't weight anything. Host: Be so easy. Andrea Hanson: [laughs] It'd be so easy. It'd be too easy, and it wouldn't stress the body in a meaningful way to help you retain that strength. Host: Yeah. Andrea Hanson: So essentially, the engineers that developed this piece of equipment had to get really creative. Host: Okay, so then how does it work? How does ARED work? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. ARED's a really sophisticated piece of exercise equipment. Unlike a lot of the free weights you have here in the gym, we had to design a way to impart a mechanical influence on the body, and we did that through a real creative mechanism using vacuum cylinders and kind of a cantilever device. You can think of it as a teeter-totter that moves along a fulcrum so that you can adjust the load from zero up to 600 pounds of resistance load. Host: Okay, so it's not just laying on the side of the Space Station. Now, there's this sort of balance where, if you're pushing off something, I'm imagining if you have like a, let's say a bar, like a bench press bar, and then you have the actual bench that you're laying on, you have this, basically, when you're pushing up, that bar is going up, but then you're also kind of going the other way because it's on this fulcrum, right? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. I think you've got this visualization pretty accurate. Host: Okay. Andrea Hanson: Essentially, when you're exercising on ARED, you're kind of in a clamshell or in between a clothespin where you're pushing off against a platform and up against an exercise bar. So whether you're standing and you have that exercise bar on your shoulders or you've installed the bench attachment and you can do bench presses, ARED allows one to conduct over 45 different types of exercises. Host: All right. So that means you can kind of adjust it. You can attach, I guess, I don't know, pulleys or do more of a squat kind of setup? Andrea Hanson: Exactly that. Host: Okay. Andrea Hanson: ARED can be used for those full functional strength-training exercises or more of those targeted, like, bicep curls or ab/adduction type exercises. Host: Okay, so how long does it take to kind of switch it up, then? Andrea Hanson: It is pretty easy to manipulate the hardware itself, to change it from, say, a squat exercise, and just a couple minutes to pull out the bench, click that into place, and then do something like a bench press exercises. So it happens pretty rapidly. Host: Nice. How long during the day do they actually take out for exercise? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. And this is where it really highlights the importance of exercise. Astronauts are scheduled two-and-a-half hours, six days a week for exercise time. Host: All right. That's a lot. Andrea Hanson: And that's pretty significant when you consider crew time is one of our most valuable commodities. Now, they're not, you know, breathing hard that entire two-and-a-half hours, six days a week, but what that allows them is time to get the ARED into the configuration they need it to and go through a full, you know, good strength-training exercise program every day and then also get some cardio fitness in too, whether they're spending that on the treadmill or the exercise bike. Collectively, they have that time to, you know, get changed into their workout gear, do their exercises, and then a little time to recover and clean up as well. Host: Okay, so that two-and-a-half hours is not just, all right, go, and then run for two-and-a-half hours, or do, like, you know, a resistive exercise for two-and-a-half hours. This is including the entire thing -- setup, changing, getting the ARED situated in different configurations, all of the above. Two-and-a-half hours, that's your time. Andrea Hanson: That's right. Host: Okay. So you, we kind of touched on it a little bit is the Advanced Resistive Exercise Device is one component. It's got the vacuum cylinders. Simulates weight lifting. You need this resistive exercise to prevent, is it muscle and bone loss? Is that what you're doing on that machine? Andrea Hanson: It sure is. Yeah, each of the exercise devices kind of has its own unique training behind it, and so the ARED, the strength training, of course, is good for muscles and bone health, bone quality. Treadmill, you get that important mechanical stimulus every step of the way, so that's great for bones and cardiovascular fitness. And of course, the cycle ergometer -- we call it the CVIS, the Cycle Ergometer with Vibration Isolation System -- is really good for cardiovascular training as well. Host: Okay, so you get a little bit of that impact from the treadmill and the cardio stuff from the stationary bicycle. Excellent. So if you're running on the treadmill, how do you stay on? Andrea Hanson: [laughter] That is another great question. Yeah, we need a special harness, actually, to pull the astronauts down to the surface of the treadmill. So we have, we've created a harness kind of copying the technique or design of a backpacker's harness, where you can adjust the loads from the shoulders to the hip, and then that is all held down to the surface of the treadmill through a series of bungee attachments. And so you can actually adjust the load. Very ideally, we would create a one-g environment and have them run with the full load that their body would be imparting during a running protocol. However, you can imagine that can get pretty uncomfortable when all of that load is being, is forcing you down through the shoulders and the hips, even if you can adjust that to distribute the load. So typically, astronauts are running between 70 to even 90% of their fully body weight towards the end of a mission, and some of them do get up and recreate that full body weight loading on the treadmill. But it's a balance between comfort and the ability to get a really good workout in. Host: I see. So that, basically, getting it down below one g, getting to that 70% whatever, just makes the harness a little bit more comfortable-- Andrea Hanson: That's right. Host: Because ultimately, you have this impact sensation where you're going up and down. You got the harness on you. So yeah, I could see how that can bother you. Andrea Hanson: Yeah. Host: Is it made out of metal, the harness? Andrea Hanson: No. The harness itself is actually fairly comfortable. It has some-- Host: Oh, okay. Andrea Hanson: Nice padding on it. It has some lumbar support. It has padding around the hips where you might experience some of those hot spots. And it's quite adjustable. But there are, we do use metal clips that attach to the bungee, to the harness, and then, ultimately, to the treadmill. Host: I see. What kind of exercises are they doing on the treadmill? Are they basically doing, like, long jogs, or are they maybe doing high-intensity kind of sprinting? Are they doing something a little bit more I guess intense but interval training? Andrea Hanson: Another great question, and it's really a combination of both of those. Host: Okay. Andrea Hanson: I think for anyone engaging in a really regular exercise program, having the variety in exercise prescriptions is really important and really key to maintaining that motivation to come back and do it again every day. And so you will see the astronauts running for long durations at a time. We've had a few astronauts who've even conducted marathons in space-- Host: That's right. Andrea Hanson: [laughs] Which is pretty great. Suni Williams, of course, has run, she ran the Boston Marathon. Tim Peake recently run the, ran the London Marathon up there. And so those were, of course, those long, continuous runs. But more regularly, we are seeing the astronauts engaging in those high-intensity training protocols. And so on the treadmill, that might mean four-minute intervals with four-minute breaks or six 30-second sprint intervals with breaks in between as well. And that really stresses the heart and gets you up in that 90% maximum heart rate range, which is really effective at maintaining cardiovascular health, even during those short durations of exercise. Host: Is it proven to be more, or more or less effective, or is there a reason to do this interval sort of training? Andrea Hanson: There is a really good reason, especially in space, and that's a time-saving-- Host: Oh, I see. Andrea Hanson: Trade, for sure. And so again, it's advantageous to conduct both continuous running and that interval training because it stresses the body in different ways, all of which are really important, but it is, has been really effective to engage in these high-intensity protocols. We find that it can save a little bit of time in your day-to-day exercise [laughs] time and still able to maintain health. Host: So you can kind of shave off that two-and-a-half hours, then, if you were doing the interval training, the high-intensity kind of exercises, then, right? Andrea Hanson: Ultimately, yeah. That, and that's kind of what we're looking at, especially for these extended, long-duration missions, where, again, it can be stressing on the body to engage in long-duration exercise every single day. So we're looking at all of those trades that can be made to really offer the crew a good mix of effective workouts, but something that's going to make them, again, want to stay motivated and adhere to their exercise protocol as well. Host: So are you saying that it is sustainable? Is it, can an astronaut actually keep up with high-intensity interval exercise every day? Andrea Hanson: [laughs] Well, they certainly can keep up with high-intensity exercise. And again, it's not every day, but it's, say, three days a week-- Host: Oh, I see. Andrea Hanson: Instead of the full six days a week. It's certainly sustainable. And we've conducted a couple of studies in the last couple of years, both here on the ground using the bed rest analog and repeated that in space to demonstrate that it was tolerable to maintain these higher-intensity exercise protocols. Host: So you talked a little bit about variety and how that kind of helps with switching it up, getting the body to maximize its performance by having I guess the, by switching up the routines that you do. Is there a consistent schedule for exercise every day? Like, do they do it the same time? Do they do the same routine? Is there like a weekly thing? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. Well, getting that full two-and-a-half hours of time in is pretty tricky for the schedulers. Host: Oh, yeah. Andrea Hanson: One really interesting thing we know about exercise is that the body actually needs rest periods. And so it's fairly important to separate your strength training workouts from your aerobic workouts to give the body the rest it needs to, so you can stimulate it all over again, and it really optimizes, especially for bone health, the ability for your bones to respond to that secondary workout for the day. So when possible, we do try to break up those workouts. But of course, when it comes to going to the gym, [laughs] there's also a matter of efficiency in getting it all in at once. So it's a trade, and the ops teams and schedulers work really hard to find that balance that works both for the crew and for the daily schedule. Host: Yeah, that's something I actually try to do is basically I've learned that you can't, you shouldn't really do the same resistive exercise, like, two days in a row. So if you're going to do, like, bicep curls, the next day, you should probably do something else. Maybe switch it, so a leg day, or maybe switch it to a cardio day. But basically, doing it that two days in the row, you're right, does not provide the body the sort of recovery time it needs. Andrea Hanson: Exactly. And the astronauts are really lucky to work with essentially personal trainers. We call them the astronaut strength, conditioning, and rehabilitation specialists, or their ASCRs, who are taking a really close look at those exercise protocols and making sure that they're optimizing them day in and day out for the astronauts. Host: Okay. So how often do the ASCRs work with the astronauts, then? Is this a daily thing? Andrea Hanson: It's a daily thing. Host: Oh, wow. Andrea Hanson: Yeah. They send up protocols and prescriptions every day. They receive feedback. They can sometimes have a conference with them. They check in on a regular basis to make sure that crew are comfortable with the exercise hardware, if they have any concerns. Maybe they know that they have a really packed schedule coming up for a couple of days, and they need to make some trades in their exercise workout to make sure that they have the full mental aptitude and are prepared to take on the otherwise stressful schedule and balance that with use of exercise. Host: So it sounds like the, basically, it's kind of personalized. It sounds like it kind of varies between crew member, that maybe this crew member may need a little bit more of X, Y, and Z, whereas this one needs a little bit more A, B, C. Andrea Hanson: That's exactly it. It's a very individualized, and it's important that those trainers know their crew members really well so that they can have a real honest conversation over how to maximize their time working out. Host: So do the ASCRs, these trainers, work with the astronauts before and after spaceflight to kind of understand them? Andrea Hanson: Yeah, they sure do. They spend a year or more training and helping each crew member prepare for their flight, work with them day in and day out when they're on Space Station, and then spend some good time with them once they get back to Earth to make sure that they're healthy, and fit, and able to, again, jump into their regular ground-based exercise protocols or just that day-to-day activity, like riding a bike, playing with their kids, [laughs] going to the grocery store, and making sure they're not at risk due to muscle fatigue or bone weakness. Host: That's right, because there's a recovery period whenever they land, right? It's not like, because your, again, your body is now adjusting to the regular Earth gravity, and so you got to go through this period. But from what I understand, the astronauts are right back into it, right? They are starting to exercise almost a couple days or maybe even the same day. What's it look like after they land? Andrea Hanson: Yeah. Just like when you get into space, your body responds very rapidly to that microgravity environment, when you come back to Earth, it takes a couple of days for your body to get used to that again. Host: Yeah. Andrea Hanson: And that balance component we talked about early on, that's one of the senses that is disturbed for a little longer than the others. So even if we did a really great job of implementing exercise protocols in space, they maintain their muscle strength, they maintain their bone quality, upon coming back, we still have to be careful that we're engaging them in the regular daily activity in a very metered way so that we can make sure that they're used to, that they have their balance back and that they do feel comfortable with the strength levels they have to resume that normal daily routine. ost: What are you seeing with the astronauts whenever they come back? How, what's the length of time until they're, I guess, quote, unquote, "back to normal"? Andrea Hanson: Well, that's a really good question, and I think that the answer varies for the different systems of the body that you want to talk about. But there, of course, most crew are able to get up and walk around on their own within a day or two after landing. And they are getting back to regular exercise programs, at least. Muscle strength, if there were losses that were experienced during their spaceflight mission, can be returned to baseline values within two to six months, depending on, again, the individual and how they adapted both to space and coming back to Earth. But when we look at those long-term turnover systems like our skeleton, those can take a little longer to recover. And of course, you have other factors playing into this that include age, normal activity levels, and, again, the stressors of this schedule that astronauts experience upon coming back and needing to fulfill a lot of those post-mission responsibilities. Host: All right. Because they basically have this recovery time, but, also, they need to get back to work, right? So-- Andrea Hanson: Exactly. They do get right back to work. They have a lot of debriefs. They have, they capture all those lessons learned from their space mission. They do a lot of public speaking and sharing their experience, both internally and externally. And they do a lot of travel [laughs] right after returns. And of course, they, it's important for them to spend time with their families upon coming back as well. So their schedules remained stressed for quite a while after their mission. Host: Wow. So it's kind of, they're in high demand, you can say, because they are a recently-landed crew member, which means that they are in, they want to go, and people want to hear them speak and go out to different engagement events, but then, also, they got to travel for work reasons too, balancing the time with the family, balancing the recovery time. There's a lot that's going on in that after flight time. Andrea Hanson: Absolutely. Host: Are you finding that, like you said, there are, you are monitoring what they're doing? You're basically, the ASCRs, the trainers, are monitoring them day to day to see how they're performing. Is there, are you tracking to see which types of exercises may be more effective than others? For example, maybe astronauts that are putting a little bit more heavier loads on ARED and really pushing themselves for that strength training, maybe they see a little bit more recovery than others. Andrea Hanson: Yeah, tracking exercise data is something that we take very seriously, and we actually deliver reports every two weeks both to the flight docs and to the ASCRs so that they can track the progress of the exercise prescriptions in a way where we can take a step back and look at progression over time instead of being wrapped up in that day-to-day care. And so we get a lot of great data down from Space Station from the treadmill, for example. We know at which speeds they're running. We know what load they're pulling themselves down to that surface with. And we get heart rate data. So we can look at the intensity of their exercise. Same with the cycle ergometer. We're looking at workloads, and heart rate on there, and distance traveled, or simulated traveled, of course. [laughs] And on ARED, right now, we are tracking manually how, what loads are being dialed in, and how many repetitions, and how many sets are being performed by each crew member. The ARED was originally designed with a force platform and load cells that was going to record the loads dialed in and the ground reaction forces experienced during exercise and automatically count the repetitions and record the sets of exercise. We had a mechanical failure when, shortly after ARED was installed. Host: Oh no. Andrea Hanson: And so we've looked a long time for interim load monitoring solutions. And that's where we introduced a study called the force shoes, where we looked at a pair of instrumented sandals, essentially, that would help record the exercise loads. And what that did was give us confidence that the hardware was working consistently and actually delivering the load that was dialed in and reported by the astronauts. So that was a big confidence booster that our exercise hardware was in good working order. Host: Force shoes was one of the things you actually worked on, wasn't it? Andrea Hanson: Yes, it was. Host: Very cool. So basically, it was kind of a way to measure and just make sure that the ARED was, indeed, giving the load that you were dialing in. It was kind of this check and balance but also did a little bit of reporting too? Like, was it, were you able to record the measurements, I guess, the exercise? Andrea Hanson: Yep. The load cells on the instrumented shoes allowed us to record that data. We could look at ground reaction forces that allowed us to analyze how weights and our loads were being distributed underfoot. You know, during a regular exercise or strength-training program, you're always being told to push through the heels. Push through the heels. And that's-- Host: Yeah. Andrea Hanson: Exactly the type of form that we're looking to see the astronauts carry out in flight as well. So we could take a real close look at that data and help them out with a little instruction, if necessary, or just confirm that they were doing it right. Host: Okay, cool. So it has this feedback-- Andrea Hanson: Yep. Host: Sort of the technique feedback because making sure, and you're absolutely right. Definitely, whenever you're doing squats, it's definitely on the heels that you want to have that kind of load. So if you're putting a little bit more pressure on I guess the side, or the front, or whatever, the force shoes can tell you that, and then you can say, hey, you need to put a little bit more on that, because, ultimately, the good technique is what's going to get you the best results. Andrea Hanson: That's right. And that's why it was really important for us to have that force plate installed [inaudible]. And just recently, we were able to turn it back on. So we're really excited to compare the data from the force shoes to the force plate. And again, it will give us that confidence that it's in good working order or that we can only utilize data from one load sensor or the other. Host: So we've been doing exercise on the Space Station for quite some time now and have a lot of different astronauts that have gone on, done a lot of different exercises, and we have all of this data. Can we say that we have enough data to say, yes, we are ready to go further out into space for longer and longer missions, even beyond the normal six-month increment that we're seeing on the Space Station? In fact, we have a little bit of data from the one-year mission, right? Andrea Hanson: Yeah, we sure do. We have a very rich database of exercise data. What's really interesting about that is on Space Station, we've been really lucky to, again, have real capable exercise hardware and a large variety of exercise hardware. So we've always had a treadmill. We've had that cycle ergometer and that really robust strength-training device. When we think about going on to exploration missions, the size of our vehicle is going to be much smaller than the International Space Station is today. Host: That's right. Andrea Hanson: And so that's challenged us to come up with new hardware design that's smaller footprint, lower volume, lower power, and we're right now working on designing and testing that exercise hardware to be able to compare how similar it is to the hardware available on Space Station and where we might need to introduce additional components or features in that hardware to make sure that the astronauts going to Mars do, are able to get a really good workout in. Host: You know, one of the benefits of the Space Station is how big it is, right? It's like the size of I guess a five-bedroom house or something. So you can easily fit three different exercise equipment, and actually, it's, there's more on there, right? You've got the ARED. You've got the T2 treadmill, the COLBERT. And you also have the CEVIS stationary bicycle. But then, you have the, some Russian equipment as well. Andrea Hanson: Yeah. We're really lucky that the, on the Russian module, they have their own exercise hardware, so we don't have to share time on all of the devices. That would be really a scheduling nightmare. So they do have their own treadmill, their own exercise bike, and then we share the use of ARED. Host: You know, that's actually one component that I kind of skipped over was you have six astronauts onboard the Space Station that are working out two-and-a-half hours a day. Where do they find the time? Andrea Hanson: [laughs] Exactly. It is-- Host: They have to rotate on the same machines. Andrea Hanson: They sure do. And that is a huge challenger for the ground-based schedulers to make sure that everyone's getting a fair amount of time on all of the hardware as well. And pretty soon, we're going to be increasing the number of crew from six up to seven and, at some points, even 11 different crew members with our visiting vehicles. So there'll be short durations of time with many crew members aboard. And we're right now looking at what those schedules need to look like and what adjustments need to be made to be sure that everyone gets the exercise time they need. Host: You know, I'm thinking about the constant use of this, especially if you're getting up to that number of crew members. The constant use of these machines, do they require a fair bit of maintenance? Andrea Hanson: They have, all have a regular maintenance schedule. Every mechanical device is essentially designed to fail at some point. And so that's why it's really important that we're monitoring the health of the hardware on a regular basis. We're looking at cycle counts. We're looking at hours of powered on time. And we stick to a really strict maintenance schedule to make sure that the crew experience as little downtime as possible due to mechanical failures. So we kind of anticipate when those are going to happen and make sure we replace the pieces that need to to ensure that they can stay up and running. Host: I guess taking that consideration to I guess going back to our talk before about these vehicles that are going to go further out and perhaps even, like, especially Orion, going to be smaller, right? So now, you don't have the room for all of this exercise equipment. That's initially where I was going. But you have the Advanced Resistive Exercise Device, which is actually pretty decently sized, right? Andrea Hanson: Right. Host: If you put it in Orion, it would probably take up most of Orion. [laughs] So you can't really do that. Or actually, would it even fit? Andrea Hanson: Yeah, I don't think ARED would even fit. It is a very large device. It's very heavy and very capable. I think everyone would love to see ARED being sent to Mars, or at least a derivative of it. And that's really what we're trying to do -- taking all those lessons learned from that hardware design and the stresses that has been put on that hardware to make sure that the devices being designed for those smaller exploration vehicles are going to be able to stand up to the stresses and the continuous use that we expect that they will have. And so right now, while we're being challenged to kind of design, have one piece of hardware that's going to be a cross-training, both aerobic and strength-training device, we know that multimodal exercise is important, which is why we have the cycle, the treadmill, and the strength-training device today. But also, that robustness and the ability to make sure that we have operational hardware available is almost as important as the functionality of any one device. Host: That's right. And you kind of have to have a certain set of redundancy too, right, because you can't , I guess if you're having all of these crew members going on a long mission with one machine, gosh, what if that machine breaks, right? You're going to have to-- Andrea Hanson: What if it broke? Host: Yeah, so are you talking about having multiple machines? Andrea Hanson: We're evaluating that right now-- Host: Yeah. Andrea Hanson: To be sure that we are providing whatever functional exercise system's going to be required to maintain health during those three-year missions. Host: Okay, I see. So actually, selfishly, one of the things that I wanted to ask you was, since, you know, like I said, we were talking about, there's so many astronauts on the Space Station and have exercised this number of times. You have these sample size. And you've seen all the different types of exercise and how they are performing. Do you have certain tips and tricks that you've taken from the astronauts and taken into your own life for your own exercise? Andrea Hanson: Well, absolutely. I mean, the astronaut core, they're a very motivated bunch, and it's really impressive to see how responsible they are for upkeeping their own physical fitness and health. And so it's really great to watch them as they train pre mission to see how they're targeting their fitness goals to make sure that they're ready for that flight, that launch, and that long stay in space. And because I am privileged to take a look at the exercise data that comes down and help write those medical reports, I know firsthand how hard they really are working. So it's pretty impressive that they're able to adhere to and maintain those high-intensity exercise protocols over those six-month missions. And in one case, even one, a whole year of pretty intense went on. And so it's pretty impressive to me to see how they take it very seriously and how they do try to hit those fitness goals as they're prescribed by their trainers. And so one thing I've taken away is I do hire a trainer to [laughs] help me work out so that-- Host: Oh, wow. Andrea Hanson: I'm making sure that I'm pushing myself and somebody's there to help keep me motivated along the way. Host: That's right. That constant motivation is so key. Andrea Hanson: It is. Host: So key to the success because you're, like I was saying before, you know, it's so easy to drop off and stop exercising for a little bit just because of whatever excuse you can come up with. But if you have that sort of accountability and someone tracking you and keeping you on the track to whatever goal it may be, whether it be muscle gaining, or weight loss, or whatever, you know, you're going towards that goal. That makes so much sense. Andrea Hanson: Yeah. And I think with the astronauts, they realize they're also accountable to each other. They need to be there and ready to support each other if it's during an EVA, an extravehicular activity, or helping out with something really important inside the Station. Even if it's helping each other out upon landing, they know that they all need to be in top physical condition to enable mission success overall. Host: Okay. So actually, I wanted to kind of go back and talk more about, are you an exercise physiologist, or I think you have an engineering background. Andrea Hanson: Yeah. Actually, my background is in engineering. I studied both chemical and aerospace engineering but really focused on the bioastronautics and microgravity sciences aspect of the aerospace engineering discipline, which meant that I focus on the human in the loop rather than the vehicle surrounding them. My personal research interests have focused on maintaining musculoskeletal health, whether it's the muscle physiology or the bone health -- really understanding what those mechanostats, those mechanical-sensing cells in both muscle and bone, what they need to stimulate and make sure that we're maintaining proper health for our bodies. And it was understanding at that cellular level the sensitivities to the mechanical inputs that the body experiences and how that's important for maintaining health when you otherwise take away the gravitational vector that help me to think more critically about the importance of exercise hardware design and the way that we measure exercise data and then analyze that to correlate to how the exercise protocols we're giving the astronauts help to maintain health. Host: Okay, so that goes back to that force shoes thing, right? That was-- Andrea Hanson: Exactly. Host: One of the things you worked on because it's this device that literally helps exactly what you're saying, that understands the body and how it's responding the exercise and can improve that. Andrea Hanson: Yeah. I think it's no secret that exercise works -- [laughs] on the ground and in space. But until we have the data and can break down those numbers to say exactly how it's pinpointing loads on individual joints and activating muscles in a meaningful muscle recruitment pattern, that we're truly going to understand why exercise is so effective in space. Host: It's so true. And I know just from exercising myself, there's a component beyond just the physiological, beyond just your muscles and bones, that's really helpful just basically maximizing the performance of your body. But basically, also, understanding the mental and emotional aspects that exercise bring you. Is that something that's being investigation on the Space Station? Andrea Hanson: Absolutely. I think use of exercise time as an emotional reprieve and break from that high-stress schedule has been heavily recognized and another reason that we're able to protect that two-and-a-half hours of time, six days a week and label it as exercise time. It's a good chance for the crew to not only kind of focus on their own individual health, but kind of take a break from the rest of that real demanding schedule. Host: I see. Yeah, I guess, yeah, it's kind of their -- you, I guess you wouldn't call it personal time, but it is sort of a break from the mental stresses of doing hundreds of experiments over the course of your six-month increment. Andrea Hanson: That's right. Host: Okay. So actually, I wanted to end with one thing that we touched on earlier, which was this idea of recovering after a spaceflight. And we talked about how your muscles and bones, you have this period of recovery, and even your balance and how that's going to recover once you get back, it takes some time for your body to get adjusted. I'm thinking about landing on, beyond Earth, right. I'm talking about landing on Mars. If you're landing on Mars, what are we doing to make sure the body will be able to perform once we land on another planetary body and you're undergoing the same things where your body needs to have this adjustment period? Andrea Hanson: That is such an important question and really important to recognize today when the crew lands back on Earth, they have an entire welcome wagon here ready to help them up and out of the capsule, and get them to the medical support tents, and make sure that they are safely on their way home. When we land on the surface of Mars, that welcome wagon will not be available. So what we're working on today is creating a real autonomous exercise system so that we can provide the crew with really individualized and meaningful fitness goals. And how do we do that? Well, we took a look and evaluated, what kinds of tasks are they going to have to do once they land on the surface of Mars? And some of those are pretty obvious. They're going to have to get up and out of the capsule [laughs] and safely to that prepositioned habitat or equipment that will help them set up base. They're going to have to walk around on this unfamiliar and probably uneven terrain and be careful not to experience unnecessary trips and falls along the way. And if they do, they might have to help an incapacitated crew member. So these are the types of fitness goals that we're looking at in being able to, one, provide a real targeted training number so that they can perform these types of tasks once they get to the surface, and then we're going back and asking ourselves, did we design the exercise hardware to help them meet these functional fitness goals? Host: All right. So a lot of work being done, of course, because this is a, this is one of the largest considerations for landing on Mars is once you land on there, can you perform? Will you be able to accomplish what you want to accomplish? Absolutely. Well, Andrea, thank you so much for coming on and kind of describing this exercise in space. And, I mean, I'm taking some of the lessons learned from the astronauts and just the idea of, we didn't touch on it so much, but the idea of resistive and aerobic exercise, right. The idea of mixing it up, making sure you have the resistive exercise on the ARED and the aerobic with the stationary bicycle and the treadmill, mixing it up, and basically staying consistent, right. Now, I'm consider a personal trainer. [laughs] I don't know. Andrea Hanson: There you go. That might be the key to your success. [laughs] Host: All right. Well, Andrea, thanks again for coming on. Andrea Hanson: Thanks so much for having me. [ Music ] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today, we talked with Dr. Andrea Hanson about exercise in space and how that's going to help us go further and further into the cosmos. If you want to know more about how the astronauts are exercising in space, go to NASA.gov/ISS, or you can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, the International Space Station accounts, to see what they're doing right now. Otherwise, you, there are plenty of other NASA podcasts that you can tune in to. We have Gravity Assist that Dr. Jim Green talks about the planets in our solar system and some, and beyond, ultimately, having great talks with some cool people like Andy Weir just recently. And also, we have NASA in Silicon Valley out at Ames, who helps out with a lot of the stuff on the International Space Station, is doing some cool stuff with Twitch and going live on TV to talk about cool things like playing video games, and how video games sort of help us to understand components of space, and how they inspire others to understand components of space. Very cool stuff that they're doing over there. So this podcast episode was recorded on February 20th, 2018 thanks to Kathy Reeves, Judy Hayes, Isidro Reyna, Kelly Humphries, and Ryon Stewart. Thanks again to Dr. Andrea Hanson for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

hwhap_Ep24_Space Habitat

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-12-22

Production Transcript for Ep24_Space Habitat.mp3 [00:00:00] >> Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 24, Space Habitats. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So on this podcast, we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all to let you know all the coolest information that's going on right here at NASA. So today we're talking about the space habitat analog that we have here at the NASA Johnson Space Center called, The Human Exploration Research Analog, or HERA, with Lisa Spence and Paul Haugen. Here in Houston, Lisa is the Flight Analog's Project Manager for HERA, and Paul is the HERA Operations Engineer. They work with the people who actually stay in HERA, this analog, and simulate deep-space missions for days, weeks, and now more than a month. And actually, just recently, the campaign for Mission 3 this year just got out, and they're going to be going home for the holidays, and speaking of which, happy holidays to all of you, whether you celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, whatever, happy holidays, and I'm glad to see that the campaign for Mission 3 crew members are going to be going home too. [00:01:06] But here with Lisa and Paul, we had a great discussion about HERA, what it is, what it's like inside, what crew members do on missions, what we're learning, and then how to sign up for those missions. So with no further delay, let's go lightspeed and jump right ahead to our talk with Miss Lisa Spence and Dr. Paul Haugen. Enjoy! [00:01:23] [ Music ] You were part of the crew that was in there during, like, right before Harvey hit, or something? [00:01:52] >> Yep, yep. So we were halfway through when Harvey hit [laughing], so. [00:01:55] >> Wow! Halfway through. How -- how long of a mission? [00:01:58] >> It's a 45-day mission, so. [00:02:00] >> Okay. [00:02:00] >> So we were on day 23 when we got kicked out, so [laughing]. [00:02:04] >> Wow. So by that time, were you pretty much immersed in... [00:02:07] >> Oh yeah. [00:02:08] >> ...in like the whole environment. [00:02:09] >> Oh yeah, yeah. [00:02:10] >> And then, all of a sudden, oh, by the way, you're back on earth and there's a hurricane? [00:02:14] >> It was weird. I mean, we were very much immersed and we got woken up, they have an emergency com [phonetic] for just stuff like this, and we were in a com delay, so our normal com, you know, was -- already had a, you know, delay going on, but we got called on the emergency radio and said, pack it up, you guys are kicked out, so. [00:02:35] >> That's it? It was just, alright, well, we're done, we got to go! So, was -- because at the end, I know there's like usually a ceremony, right, and they do this whole thing where you come out. It was just, alright, you guys get out. [00:02:47] >> Yep. They had -- all the gates were closed, so they had to specially open up a gate to get us out, because they were flooded. I mean... [00:02:53] >> Woah! [00:02:54] >> Yeah. [00:02:55] >> [Laughing] Wait, so, when did you -- what was the day that you guys were out? We got kicked out on August 27th, so that Sunday morning. So it was right in the middle of all the flooding and stuff. [00:03:08] >> Well, okay, so I -- I live up in the city, and, by far, the worst -- the worst night was Sunday night, but I think Saturday night into Sunday night was pretty bad. [00:03:16] >> Saturday night was the worst one. [00:03:18] >> For here? Down in JSC? [00:03:19] >> Yeah. [00:03:19] >> Oh, wow! [00:03:20] >> Oh, big time. Yeah, yeah. They got just hammered. [00:03:24] >> Wow! So what happened to the HERA facility? [00:03:27] >> It was fine. [00:03:28] >> Really? [00:03:28] >> So we -- we were fine inside, but mission control, those guys were having trouble getting in and out of -- of Johnson Space Center, and they -- so there was a concern for them that we had to call it short. [00:03:42] >> Wow. I know for -- they had to set up a lot of cots and everything for people to -- to go back and, you know, once they were done, they just slept in the back rooms or something. [00:03:51] >> Well, in building 30, yeah, but so we have our own mission control. [00:03:55] >> You're talking about HERA mission control? [00:03:56] >> The HERA mission control, and so those folks were having trouble getting in and out, and -- and they were getting stuck in flood waters and stuff. So it was concern for them that we had to call the mission. Yeah, because we -- inside HERA, we were fine. We -- frankly, we had no idea. [00:04:11] >> And you're right, they closed the gates. So, on top of all the flood waters, you know, you had -- you couldn't even get in. [00:04:17] >> Yep, yep. [00:04:17] >> Wow. Alright. [Laughter] Quite an experience! Are you going back then? [00:04:22] >> Nope, that's it. [00:04:23] >> That's it? [00:04:23] >> I mean, it was -- it was fun, but now I know too much so they won't let me go back and be a subject [laughing]. [00:04:30] >> Oh, that's right. Because you actually experienced it. Okay, well let's -- well let's pill back then, because that was an awesome story. Let's pull back and just talk about, you know, what is HERA? [00:04:38] >> Sure, okay. [00:04:39] >> So, we're talking about space habitats, and it's really a simulator for what it would be like, right, to live in a deep space environment. Is that -- is that kind of right? [00:04:50] >> Close. So it's -- it's not actually a simulator, and that's a -- it's a -- that's a word that gets used quite a bit, but it's a little inaccurate, so it's not -- it's not actually a simulator, it allows us to simulate what it's like, and the difference is that, I mean, is -- there's a fidelity difference. So, what this allows us to do is to simulate that we are in a deep space mission and -- and we're isolated, we're confined, and we're controlled. And by controlled I mean so they are constantly monitoring us with cameras and audio and we are wearing all sorts of different equipment to measure various biomarkers or whatever the case may be, and -- and then there's a mission control. So they are -- it's very controlled what they allow in and out of HERA. So it's a very, very controlled environment, and so that's -- and so by being -- by allowing us to simulate what it's like to be, then they can do all sorts of various studies and they can tweak this little part here to see how that will affect things, or -- or not, so. [00:06:03] >> Okay, so instead of a simulator, what do they -- what do they call HERA then? [00:06:07] >> An analog. [00:06:08] >> Analog, okay. So what's an analog? [00:06:10] >> So an analog is kind of what I was describing. So it's -- it's a -- it's an environment that, in our case, there's two main types of analogs. There's a -- there's an isolated and confined and controlled analog, and then there's one that's more of an extreme environment that's not as controlled. So -- so there's not as much monitoring, there's not as much knowing what goes in and out, but it's more of a harsh environment, such as Antartica or Nemo, which is an underwater analog. So there's two main types of analogs, the one here, HERA, is -- is the -- is the controlled environment. So it's the isolated control, confined and controlled environment. [00:06:55] >> Okay, and what's the significance of those two segments? Like the controlled environment and then the extreme environment? [00:07:01] >> Sure. So the controlled one allows you to do specific scientific studies and really control what's going on, right? So it really allows you to baseline and to -- and to change certain parameters that really allow you to see how that is going to affect various things, and you're very much isolated and controlled that way, whereas more of an extreme one, it's not nearly -- there's a lot more variables that are not controlled, and so it's harder to set up specific types of scientific experiments, maybe. However, there's the added part of being an extreme environment. So there's actual really, you know, physical risk. You know, if there's an issue in Antartica, you cannot just open up the door and walk out and be okay and go to the doctor, I mean, you're -- you're in a rough environment, same with Nemo. I mean, you can't just open up the door and, I mean, you're 60 feet underwater, so... [00:08:02] >> Yeah, because Nemo -- yeah, Nemo is the habitat that's literally underwater, and you're right, you can't -- you can't open up the door, because -- because you're so deep underwater, it's not even just getting out and splashing up, like, there's a whole sequence of -- of getting... [00:08:14] >> And there's real, you know, real danger. [00:08:16] >> But the whole -- but that's the purpose, right? Is you're putting them in an environment because the -- the imminent danger is supposed to help with imminent danger in space, right? [00:08:26] >> That's correct. So, you're -- you're adding that stressor that is -- is a real stressor. I mean, you know, technically, I suppose that T38 could be considered a type of an analog, because, you know, it's a -- it's a, you know, they use it as a trainer, but they do that because there's real risk involved and there's a real operational experience. Whereas, you know, HERA, I mean, you know, a person knows that you can open the door and step out. Now, that being said, after day 2, it, you know, we were really quite immersed. I mean, we were -- I mean, you have that in the back of your head, that you can open the door and step out, but -- but you forget about it and you really become immersed in the mission. So -- so it's not as big of a player is what I would have originally thought maybe. [00:09:17] >> Yeah. [00:09:17] >> I mean, I was surprised how quickly I was able to get immersed in the mission and -- and forget that I was, I mean, obviously, I knew I wasn't in space, because I wasn't floating around or anything like that, but I -- but I, you know, I got immersed in the mission, and that happened much, much more than I would have guessed and much quicker than I would have guessed. [00:09:36] >> Yeah, because one of the main objectives of HERA, right, is -- is the human research component, is understanding what goes through, I guess, well, I guess, psychology is one component, but then there's other components too for the human research aspect? [00:09:51] >> Yeah, so, actually, psychology, that's probably the largest component, because they're looking at the isolation aspect and that type of thing, and how four crew members operate together, and in our case, I mean, we're total strangers. So, but the -- but then there also is more, you know, there's physiological studies and -- and other principal investigators that look at other aspects as well, but probably the -- the psych docs are the biggest components of the studies. [00:10:22] >> Yeah, I guess the psychology and then -- is there a team component too, because you said, like, you -- that you're working with some strangers, but do they select you because you're compatible with these strangers or incompatible? [00:10:35] >> Oh, well, [laughing]. So -- so they -- so the people that select the crew, so there's -- there's criteria they want. There's an age range, they want 30 to 57, I think it is, and they want at least a master's, and they want it in a technical field, and they, you know, so, there's different criteria like that, but then beyond that, you know, there's -- and there's a physical you have to pass, and there's psych screening that you have to pass, but beyond that, so the people that are selecting the crew, they look at personalities, and they look to see, is this crew going to be compatible? And they are not trying to pick a crew to fail, they are picking one to succeed. So they are picking crew members that they think will -- will work well together. And knowing that, you know, maybe one or two or three or four, maybe all of them, are going to have some quirks, like we all do I guess, I mean, that -- so maybe they're not going to work, you know, person A and B are not going to work as well as person C and D together, but they'll still be good enough to get the job done. [00:11:39] >> Yeah. [00:11:39] >> So they definitely look at that. [00:11:41] >> Alright. So, it's getting these group of people to test, you know, all of these human aspects of -- of putting together a mission, and the mission is -- is what? What are you simulating in the analog? [00:11:56] >> So our mission, this year, so this -- this year is -- is simulating going to an asteroid and collecting samples at the asteroid. It's a 715 day mission or something like that. [00:12:12] >> Wow. [00:12:13] >> That they, you know, shrink down to 45 days. [00:12:16] >> Okay, so you're -- you're in there for 45 days, but pretending to be in there for...? [00:12:20] >> That's correct. So, you know, future ones may be going to the moon, maybe going to Mars, something like that, but -- so, but it's, the purpose for HERA is a deep space mission. So it's not just going up to ISS or anything like that, but it's extended exploration into deep space. [00:12:41] >> And is the deep space mission in this analog, right? Which is simulating that if you were to go in a -- in a mission profile, just like this, you would have this habitat that you would be in, and that you would live and work in for a simulated two-ish years or whatever, but really it's 45 days, obviously. So what are -- what -- what's the lay of the land inside of HERA? What -- what's the full, I guess, the plan? Yeah, the blueprint for HERA? [00:13:12] >> The floor plan? Yeah. So, they try to keep it, you know, similar to what they think, you know, a deep space vehicle would be, you know, volume wise. Obviously, the difference here is we're in 1G, so -- so we can't live on the roof or the -- or the walls or anything like that. [00:13:33] >> Oh, that's right. [00:13:34] >> But, so the general layout of the -- there's two and a half levels, [chuckling] I guess you could say. So the bottom level, there's a tiny airlock, and we use that for simulated EVAs and stuff like that. There's the main part, down on the first floor, and that has, you know, workstations or different simulators that we'll work on and stuff. Lab desks, and -- and then there's also a hygiene module. So there's a bathroom, a shower, a sink and stuff like that. The -- the second level is -- that's more of the quote, unquote living space maybe, that's where the -- the food galley is, so that's where the kitchen is, where we'll cook, prepare foods, that -- we would do -- there's some workstations up there, as well. There's workout areas for -- whether it's an exercise bike or weights or whatever, and then the half level that I was talking about, it's actually a level three, but -- and those are the sleeping quarters. [00:14:46] And so those are roughly the size of a twin bed. So they're fairly small. And they are -- and that's all that's up there, so it's -- it's just the sleeping quarters. [00:14:58] >> Alright. Hey, thanks for joining us, Lisa, I'm sorry. [00:15:00] >> Glad to be here! [00:15:01] >> I know you're very busy, especially because there's -- there's a mission going on right now, right? [00:15:06] >> Yes, there is. We are actually on day 19 of 45. So, yes, we're -- we're getting there. We're getting there. [00:15:15] >> Well, Paul was -- we started with Paul talking about his part of a mission, because of -- because of the whole Harvey thing, but now we were just going through the -- the sort of layout of HERA and -- and living and working, I guess, but there's -- it's two and half levels you said, and there's living, you know, there's a living component, sleeping component, and it's -- it's just this whole confined area, right? It's -- is it self-contained? [00:15:40] >> It's pretty much self-contained, it's -- it's not -- it's not hermetically sealed, so it is getting air exchanged from the outside. We don't have an active environmental control and life support system. You know, we have plumbing that's provided by the facility, but -- but it is self-contained. So once we close the doors to start a mission, those doors stay closed until 45 days later when the crew triumphantly emerges from -- from the HERA and gets to reunite with friends and family. [00:16:13] >> That's true. Or quickly emerges, in Paul's case I guess. [00:16:16] >> Yeah, that was a -- that was a bit unfortunate [laughter]. [00:16:20] >> Well, he said, even in that short amount of time, he got immersed, right? You got immersed into the environment, and you were living it. Right? So what was that like living it then? What was -- you know, what -- what state of mind were you in in order to, you know, to think that you're in space? That you were operating in a -- in a space habitat? [00:16:40] >> So -- so, again, I don't quite know how to describe it, because, I mean, so -- so, you know, we knew that we weren't in space, for example, but I get -- maybe it started with training. I mean, the trainers did such a good job explaining the importance of what we're doing and why we're doing it, and -- and how important it is to get in that mindset, and so just going in purposely with that mindset, it -- I guess it just kind of came naturally then after that, and -- and we got into a routine and, you know, we -- we kept incredibly busy, you know we had -- it was partly a sleep deprivation going on, so we had long work days and they just kept us busy doing tasks all day, and -- and it really -- I suppose that was part of it too, just keeping us busy and going -- constantly going, you know, that helped us to -- to get in there. [00:17:42] >> So on top of the 45 days, there's a prepping component too? [00:17:46] >> Oh yeah. [00:17:47] >> How early are you starting to -- to prep the crew members for their stay? [00:17:50] >> So the training, for these 45 day missions, the training starts 16 days before they're going to go in. So, it's -- we were finding that two weeks was just a little bit cramped, and even 16 days may be a little cramped. Because as -- as Paul said, we keep them really, really busy during the timeframe that they're in there. And so some of that is on the more operational tasks. So, you know, the kinds of activities and tasks that you would do as you are flying your spacecraft to this destination. And then, of course, the activities that you're going to do at destination and then the return. But they're also engaged in all of the scientific investigations that -- that we are doing where we're collecting the data that will ultimately inform some decisions that we'll be making, you know, in order to keep our crew members safe and healthy and happy and productive as they're going on those really long duration exploration missions. So -- so there is -- there is that training component that's up front. [00:18:54] We're also collecting some data that we used as our baseline data that can then be compared to, well, what are the effects, you know? So now we have these individuals, we get some baseline information, now we subject them to this -- this isolated, confined, and controlled environment for 45 days. You know, what is that effect? What changes? And can we detect those kinds of changes? And then, ultimately, will we be able to mitigate those changes if they're not healthy or productive? [00:19:23] >> Alright. So there's, I mean, 16 days, that's a pretty jam-packed kind of schedule to prep for all of that sort of training. What kind of -- what's the type of training you're getting, I guess it depends on what you're doing on board, so I guess the follow up would be, what are you doing on board? [00:19:39] >> So, I'm not quite sure how detailed we can get, because we can't spill the beans for future stuff. [00:19:47] >> That's right, because you want people to sign up to do more missions. [00:19:49] >> We do! [00:19:50] >> Okay! [00:19:50] >> It's critically important that -- that we're able to find, you know, suitable volunteers, you know, people who, to a large degree, mimic or emulate the type of people that we select for astronauts. So that's very important to us. But, you know, some of the types of things that they do, you know, we have a lot of simulators. And so they're flying a simulator for their spacecraft. They're participating in virtual reality EVAs. So they do spacewalks that they're all in virtual reality. There's prep work that needs to go with all of that. There's also a simulator that is like a robotic arm trainer. And -- and those are what we -- some of the operational tasks, so the operational tasks do allow us to collect some data, as well. They have to cook their food [laughter]. Yeah, there's -- there's, you know, there's no, you know, mom or dad or -- or spouse or whatever to cook the meals for you, so they do have to cook their own food. [00:20:56] It's all food from -- for this current mission, this series of missions, all of the food is from the food lab at JSC. The same food that the astronauts are getting on board the International Space Station, which means that it's either prepackaged, it's dehydrated, or it's those meals ready to eat that you just kind of warm up in a little warming oven, and every single package of food has to be individually fixed. So it takes time. There's a serial process. They get to do a lot of exercise, and then, you know, of course, any self-respecting spacecraft, you're going to have to do a little bit of onboard training, you're going to have to do some maintenance and housekeeping tasks. We also have to practice some emergency procedures just in case an emergency were to happen. And so -- so, you know, the team, my team, comes up with, you know, a very intensive scenario for the spacecraft mission itself, and then we weave in the -- all of the different scientific investigations. [00:22:12] >> Alright [laughing]. So, do you have to make up different ones every time or is it -- do they sort of translate? The emergency scenarios? [00:22:21] >> So there's a wide variety of things that they run you through and stuff like that, and, you know, all of those things, you know, they need to train you in 16 days prior, because, as Lisa said, I mean, if -- if you don't know how to do something, it's not like they're going to open the door and show you how to do it. So they -- you need to know how to do all of the operational tasks, all of the scientific studies, how the vehicle works, how the HERA works, in those 16 days. So -- so the training is quite intensive, as well. They -- they really cram it with [inaudible] and that stuff. [00:22:59] >> Sounds like it! Is there a lot of autonomy with the way that you're doing these tasks? Or do you have some support from -- from a simulated mission control? [00:23:07] >> Well, so mission control is always there. So they're -- they're 24/7. And they are always there to answer questions or -- or whatever the case. So you always have that support. There's, honestly, I think it depends, it varies from crew to crew and crew member to crew member how autonomous a person or a crew will -- wants to be. [00:23:29] >> Oh! [00:23:30] >> So MCC is always there, but some crews, or some people, may be a little more autonomous than others. [00:23:36] >> So is that one of the things you're looking at, Lisa, is trying to see, you know, what -- what things people can do by themselves and what, you know, about autonomy and what you need to support? [00:23:47] >> Yep, absolutely. Some of the research is looking at those levels of autonomy, and so, yes, MCC is there 24/7. Sometimes they're more there than at other times. But one of the other things that happens during the mission is, you know, we're -- we're simulating a mission to an asteroid. You're getting really, really, really far away from earth over the course of the mission. So as you get further away from the earth, there's a calm delay. And so you don't -- when you say something to mission control, it may take, you know, anywhere from an additional 30 seconds to 5 minutes before they hear what you said. And then, of course, when they respond, it's going to take that same 30 seconds to 5 minutes before you hear it. So if you're the crew member on board, and you have a question, and you ask MCC a question, it's at least 10 minutes, worst case, it's at least 10 minutes before you get a response. [00:24:54] And so what we find is that sometimes the crew members will have to wait for the response, and sometimes the crew members just get to the point where they're like, hey, we don't need no stinking mission control [laughter], we can figure this out by ourselves, because we're not going to hear back from them anytime real soon. So we do see some -- some trending towards increased autonomy. As we move forward with, not this particular research campaign, but future research campaigns, autonomy will become more and more important from a -- from a research perspective. So, mission control will always be there 24/7 to some degree, because that's a -- that's a safety requirement to make sure that we have, you know, that everybody is going to, you know, be able to implement the mission safely, no issues, no problems, but in terms of how much interaction the crew members might have with the mission control, that may be scaled back in -- in future research campaigns to sort of force that autonomy and to -- to really be able to determine, you know, if there are tasks that can and should be done that way, or if there are things that ought not to be done so autonomously. [00:26:21] >> So is that kind of depending on the mission profile? So you're doing a mission profile to an asteroid now. Maybe with -- once you get to Mars, those can take 20-something minute one-way trip. You're talking about not getting a response for 40 minutes! So, autonomy is definitely something that needs to be built into the tasks for -- for that kind of mission, right? [00:26:44] >> Absolutely. And -- and with the autonomy, we'll probably come and need to revisit how we're doing training, how much training we can do, how long it's going to take to do the training, and whether we need to move some of that training inside the module after the mission starts. I'm not talking about us coming in and -- and setting up our little genie workshop, you know, it would be some type of onboard training, maybe some uplink video or something along those lines, but our simulator does have the capability of doing that 20 minute voice delay. We just -- we don't need it for the current -- current set of missions, but if we change our scenario, and as we change our scenario to -- to a Mars-based scenario, we could certainly implement that longer -- longer-term comm delay. [00:27:39] >> Wow. So, Paul, did you have to live this comm delay? [00:27:43] >> Yep. [00:27:43] >> You did? [00:27:44] >> Yeah, we were -- so we were on day 23. So we were at the 5-minute, one-way comm delays, so. [00:27:50] >> Alright. So how did that affect your work from, you know, how did that progress? [00:27:55] >> You know, frankly, I -- I didn't really notice any difference other than having to be a little more careful about what -- looking ahead more in whatever task we were working on, and saying, oh, I need to interact with MCC here, I'm going to make the call as soon as I possibly can, and kind of lining it up that way. But really, I mean, it wasn't as huge an impact. I think, you know, one or two of the crew members would probably say otherwise, you know, I think it was a little more of an impact, but, you know, then one or two of us, you know, I don't think it was a huge impact, so. [00:28:39] >> So is that some of the stuff you're finding, Lisa? Is that some of this stuff is not universal, right? It kind of is a little bit more crew-dependent. [00:28:47] >> It certainly is. And you had asked the question a little while ago about, you know, whether some of the tasks that we do, if we create them new for every mission? Actually what we do is we -- we have a suite of scientific investigations that we're -- we're implementing right now. We will implement those scientific investigations for all four of the missions that will run within that, we call it a campaign. Each one of the missions in that campaign is as identical as we can make it from a mission control, from a timeline standpoint, the variable in how the mission is executed really comes down to the individuals who are our crew members inside. And, you know, we say it a little bit tongue-in-cheek, and it's -- it's really true, every single crew is different. You know, every crew is special, they're different, they're unique. [00:29:50] How these four individuals mold into a crew. It's different every single time, and then, of course, the -- the four individuals acting as individuals, that's different every time as well. So, it -- it really -- you know, when I abstract myself out of, you know, the actual execution of the mission and I look at it kind of more in an aggregate viewpoint, it's just fun to -- to see the variability between individuals. [00:30:24] >> Absolutely! That's just good science, right? Doing it the same, and then you just see the differences between exactly what you want to study, which is the people, right? [00:30:32] >> That's what we're hoping for, yes. [00:30:35] >> Alright. [00:30:36] >> And that's one thing that's very unique. You know, we had talked earlier about the different types of analogs, and that's one thing that is very unique, I think, to HERA, is that we are able to -- to cookie cutter four missions and have them as identical as they possibly can be, and have 16 subjects, or 16 guinea pigs or whatever, that we are -- can use for that scientific data. That is, you know, probably more unique to our analog than -- than to some others. [00:31:07] >> Alright. So backing up from there. 16, you're talking about 4 mission per year, right? So 4 missions of 4 crew members. [00:31:15] >> Correct. [00:31:16] >> And this year, I guess, was the 45-day mission. [00:31:19] >> Yes. [00:31:19] >> So where did it start and how has it evolved? [00:31:22] >> So the HERA, this is only our fourth year of operations. So this is campaign four. It started, I guess, in, you know, 2012, 2013, with seven-day missions. So pretty short, you know, but, you know, that's -- it's a good place to start. And then the following year, we went to 14-day missions. So we doubled, which is pretty exciting! And then the third year, so campaign three, last year, we did four 30-day missions. So we doubled again. Now, if you do the math, we couldn't continue to double the duration of the mission and still get four missions executed in, you know, roughly a year's period of time. So, we -- we worked very, very closely with our -- our scientific community, the stakeholders in all of this, and, well, yeah, they -- they certainly want those longer duration missions, they kind of determined that 45 days is a duration that is -- is very beneficial to them, and so we -- we can do the four 45-day missions in roughly a year. [00:32:41] As long as we don't get Harvey'd. [Laughter] Harvey -- Harvey sort of threw a monkey wrench into the whole process this year. [00:32:49] >> Oh, that's right. So what number was your mission, Paul? Was it number three of four? [00:32:53] >> We were actually number two. [00:32:55] >> Number two? Okay. So you got -- you have two completed 45-day missions, right, and you're on the last one? Or is it -- did the schedule kind of get messed up? [00:33:05] >> The schedule got a little bit wonky. I guess the technical term that we use for wonky. So, Paul's mission was the second, and it got Harvey'd. So truncated at 23 days. And so we're -- we're currently in the middle of our third mission. [00:33:22] >> I see. [00:33:23] >> So, again, you kind of have to, you know, we had to do all the recovery, of course, from -- from Harvey, and then, you know, we already had this third mission scheduled for a specific time. We'd recruited subjects, and so we can't just, you know, move the schedule around, you know, to fill up the white space that was created by the shortened mission. So -- so this is the third mission. Our fourth mission will start in the January timeframe. [00:33:52] >> Alright. So you mentioned that the 45-day mission was kind of like a 700 and something, what was the number again? [00:34:00] >> I think it was 715 or something like that. [00:34:03] >> 715 day mission collapsed into 45, just because 715 would be a lot to ask of someone. [00:34:11] >> In terms of a time warp. [Laughter] [00:34:15] >> So how -- so how has the mission design changed for, because there was a 7-day mission, right? Did you -- did you condense the 715 day mission to 7 days? [00:34:24] >> We used a slightly different scenario during the -- the 7 and 14 day missions, but, yeah, they do get compressed or condensed fairly significantly. The 45-day mission, obviously, means that we don't have to compress it quite so much, but as -- as we move on, we are looking at different kinds of scenarios, and, you know, so we may -- we may use a different compression factor just depending on what kind of mission profile we choose to fly for future campaigns. [00:34:56] >> So what was the 7-day mission? Was it out to an asteroid or was it somewhere else? [00:34:59] >> I believe it was to an asteroid. I actually came onto the project at the tail end of the 14-day missions, actually, I think they were already over by the time I came onto the project. So -- so I've really only been the project manager, you know, for the end of that campaign, and then all of the third and the fourth campaign. And now planning for campaign five. [00:35:23] >> Alright! [00:35:24] >> Yes, it's very exciting! [00:35:25] >> So what's -- what's coming up then? Do you -- do you want to preview? [00:35:29] >> For campaign five? [00:35:30] >> Yeah! [00:35:30] >> I mean, it's going to be, you know, the same type of thing, where they'll be a deep space exploration mission, you know, to a destination of some type, and it'll be, you know, they'll be operational -- it'll be laid out the same, it'll be a different scenario, but it'll be the same type of something, so operational tasks, scientific tasks, they'll be looking at, you know, psychological aspects and autonomy and -- and possibly some physiological, again, but -- but the -- it'll be laid out similar. So, again, they'll be four missions, you know, as identical as can possibly be with four crews a piece, so. [00:36:16] >> And they will be 45 day missions. So, for the foreseeable future, you know, all of our campaigns, as far as we know, the research community is requesting us to continue with the 45-day missions. So, for campaign five, we -- we will have a different suite of scientific investigations. Some of the investigations that we're currently doing will carry over, and then we also have some new investigations that we'll be executing for the first time in campaign five. So -- so, there's -- there's a lot of work that needs to be done with that. The -- the investigations themselves, often times, will drive the types of operational activities that my team develops. So, for instance, you know, one particular research investigation may be looking at crew interactions. And so we might want to develop some operational tasks that would force a couple of crew members with working together, and maybe force different combinations of the four crew members working together, maybe, you know, two working together, three working together, or even tasks that would require all four. [00:37:36] And so, as we get into -- we're just getting ready to kick off all of that activity, but as we get into kind of into the guts of the individual scientific investigations, that will help us determine what scenario is going to work best, what kind of activities will we need to do, how intensive are some of the data collection activities that we need to do, how is that going to impact laying things out on a mission timeline? All of those things kind of get rolled up into a whole lot of work that a small number of people will do in what seemingly is an incredibly short amount of time. [00:38:21] >> Alright. Well, it sounds like there's not a lot of spoilers that you can give for what's coming up and -- but is there -- is there some high level stuff that you can share about what you've learned so far and how that's going to be put into deep space missions for actually, you know, for human spaceflight in the future? [00:38:37] >> You know, you're kind of touching on an area that, for me, was one of the neatest aspects of -- of being on the crew, and that was -- was having the folks doing the training amplifying the fact that this is needed for -- for real deep space missions. So this type of research, the questions that are being asked, and the answers that they're trying to find are needed before we can ever hope to go to deep space. And so that aspect is -- is pretty neat. You know, there's -- there's -- all of the questions I think that we've already been touching on as far as what types of questions they need to answer. You know, the autonomy, the crew composition, the [pause] different -- how busy do the crew need to be on, you know, if they're going for 9 months to Mars, how busy do they need to be during that time? [00:39:42] Or can they just have nothing to do all day for nine months? I mean, so there's all sorts of different questions that -- that need to be answered and they're trying to answer now. I think, you know, I think a lot of the studies, because they do roll from year to year, I think a lot of it hasn't been published yet and been fully analyzed, so I think -- I think, Lisa will know better, but I think we're just starting to get to the point where they're starting to maybe publish some of the work now from the past four years. [00:40:10] >> So more to come. [00:40:11] >> Yeah, absolutely more to come. And -- and Paul's absolutely right. A lot of the studies that we saw in earlier campaigns, they do have a tendency to roll forward. About half of the studies in any given campaign tend to move forward, and some of them have -- have been implemented or plan to be implemented in two or three, maybe even more, research campaigns. So it -- it gives the researchers a lot of -- a lot of N, you know, that scientific validity, but the researchers are also being -- making some slight modifications to how they're doing their research based on what they're seeing. That doesn't mean that they have the answers or that they have published those answers, but they can kind of see, you know, trends in what is -- what is going on. So, I think it will be very exciting. One of the things that the human research program does every year, they have an investigator's workshop that happens at the end of January, it's down in Galveston. [00:41:21] We invite all of the researchers who are being funded through the humean research program to come and talk about their research, yo uknow, and whether that is talking about what their research is, you know, for instance, if they don't have any results yet or haven't crunched all the numbers, if you will, or whether they have preliminary results or, you know, if they're just in the planning stage for that next experiment. But it -- it really, I think we are now at the point where the 2018 investigator workshop is -- is really going to start, we're really going to start hearing about some of the results that investigators, participating in HERA over the last three years, have -- what they found. [00:42:11] >> Wow! [00:42:12] >> I know! It's great! [00:42:14] >> That's cool! So, HERA is mostly human study, right? It's mostly the human aspect. Is there some components of designing a mission or the layout of a space habitat or is it really just focusing on the human part? [00:42:29] >> No, I think you touch on an important aspect. So, I mean, you know, there's -- whether it's procedures or even equipment or whatever that -- that sometimes, you know, groups will want to vet or check out in an analog such as HERA. So -- so there's -- there's most definitely other aspects of -- of what analogs are useful for, and -- and can be used for. [00:42:55] >> Definitely. [00:42:55] >> And mission planning too like you stated, as well. So, yeah. [00:42:59] >> Even on the International Space Station right now, too, they -- they have, you know, they have conferences for, like medical conferences that are private because, you know, you need to keep that stuff confidential, but then also in case anything's wrong, you can talk to a psychologist, and then you can talk to your family too, so you're in constant communication with them, you're in constant communication with the ground, you don't feel isolated, you know, all of these things on the International Space Station, as well, and I'm sure HERA too has some human elements, but all of this can be translated out to deep space. So, Paul, take me through like, I don't know, without, you know, much spoilers, what's like a typical day in -- on the -- in HERA. [00:43:39] >> You wake up at 7. [Laughter] [00:43:42] >> Yep, wake up at 7, you know, you -- you don all of your equipment, which takes a fair amount of time, I mean, there's all sorts of different measurements that -- that they're taking, so, you don that stuff, you eat breakfast, and then you begin your day. So, there's -- whether it's -- and the days vary, so it's not the same everyday. So, whether it's, you know, some of the simulator that Lisa was describing earlier or some of the other various tasks -- tasks, and, you know, generally we do them throughout the morning, you know, lunch would be later, typically, and we had a sleep deprivation going on, like I was stating. So, we eat later, in, you know, mid-afternoon, and then continue on with tasks until evening. And evening would roll around and we would, you know, obviously eat supper then, and -- and then we would have a little bit of downtime, and, you know, we had to be sure that we stayed awake until certain -- you know, so they were monitoring that pretty closely. [00:44:49] But, so -- but the days were surprising, I mean, the time was absolutely flying by. I mean, it felt like we had been in there about 5 days and it was 23. I mean, it felt like we were in the first week. So, it was really going by fast. [00:45:07] >> Did you -- was your sense of time off, because you're not really seeing the sun rise and set, right? [00:45:13] >> Yeah, yeah, I suppose it was. You know, yeah, I think so. You know, that was a little weird not seeing the sun ever [laughter], but -- but, yeah, you know, yeah, I guess, you know, I didn't find myself getting hungry until lunch at 3 o'clock or whatever it was, you know, I mean, later in the day, and supper we were eating late, but -- but it didn't seem like that. It didn't seem like we were working these extended, long days, it seemed like -- like just a normal day. I mean, so the days were going by fast, and the -- the time itself was going by pretty fast. [00:45:50] >> Wow. So you wouldn't let Paul go to sleep, huh? [00:45:54] >> No. No, everybody had to stay awake. So with the -- the study that's going on, the -- the awake time is 19 hours, and then the sleep time is 5 hours, that's only Monday through Friday, you get to sleep in a bit on the weekend. So you do get a break on the weekend, sort of reset. And -- and for some individuals, the fact that there is a weekend and -- and the schedule's a little bti different, that might help people mark time, but, yeah, the absence of all of those external queues. We do find that -- that the crew members lose track a little bit of time. Now you had a very special guest inside -- inside the HERA. [00:46:39] >> We did. [00:46:40] >> You had Wilson. And so, that goes back to the movie, I guess, Castaway, right? [00:46:47] >> Alright! [00:46:48] >> Now, as I recall from that movie, and it has been a long time, he kind of marked off the number of days, but he was able to see the sun rise and the sun set to keep track of how many days he'd been on that desert island, but I didn't observe this crew marking off the days, they just had Wilson as their companion. [00:47:08] >> Actually we did. So we had on -- there was a little whiteboard that we designated and we'd written out the calendar, or, you know, the mission days, and that was one of the highlights. So at the end of the day, we would go down and X off what day we had finished, and... [00:47:22] >> Like an advent calendar. [00:47:24] >> Yep, that's exactly what it was like! And we -- we marked where, you know, the halfway point, we marked when the comm delays would start. You know, kind of all of the big, exciting things. When we'd reach the destination and how long we'd be there. We -- we blocked that off. So -- so, we were -- we were checking the days off, but that was kind of a -- I mean, it was, you know, exciting to who's turn it was to check off the date [laughing], so. [00:47:49] >> So that was something that your crew sort of just kept track of, right? It wasn't assigned to you, it was just, so was it like a team building thing that you guys came up with or...? [00:47:58] >> Not intentionally, but, I mean, it kind of ended up being that way. I mean, you know, it ended up being that, you know, I mean, you know, I think it was the first day we were in there and I just wrote out the numbers, and I didn't think anyone would really care, but then, you know, they all wanted to be -- everyone wanted to be, you know, the one to check it off when we were done with the day, so. So it kind of became I suppose a team-building thing. [00:48:20] >> Yeah. I guess in an environment like that, like those little things, you really just look forward to. And hanging out with Wilson too. [00:48:27] >> Yeah, you know, having Wilson -- I mean, we used him on a lot of the PAO events and, you know, had them, had them around, and so, yeah, it became kind of a -- kind of a neat, little team-building mascot, as well. [00:48:43] >> Wow. So the kinds of people you're looking for to sign up are astronaut-like, right? In what sense? [00:48:51] >> So, obviously, our astronauts are very healthy. So, our -- our subjects have to be able to pass a modified class III Air Force physical, which -- which generally means you're in pretty good health. [00:49:04] >> Congratulations, Paul. [Laughter] [00:49:06] >> So you don't have to be an Olympic athlete or anything like that, but you do need to be pretty -- pretty healthy. We're looking for people between the age range of 30 and 55. And I know we've gotten a lot of feedback on that, but -- but by the time our astronauts fly, that's really generally the age range that we're going to see. So we want them to be similar in terms of, you know, I'll call it social maturity, educational maturity, social maturity, so similar in that respect, to our astronaut corp. Our astronauts are pretty highly-educated. And so education is also one of our criteria and we -- we are looking for people who have an advanced degree, say a master's degree or above, in some type of STEM, you know, science, technology, engineering, or math field. That's -- that's our -- our -- our favorite criterion to use, one of our key criterions to use. [00:50:12] We do find, though, that -- that people who have certain types of backgrounds, say, for instance, a military background. We can easily substitute military background for that advanced education if -- if a person has, you know, some level of skill in, say, maybe an engineering or a technology type of field, and military experience. Those people are very similar to our astronaut corp, as well. So -- so those are some of the -- the major criterion that we're looking for. You know, we are looking for men, as well as women. We -- in a perfect world, we would have a career that's -- that's 50/50, you know, half men and half women. You know, so -- so those healthy, educated, you know, individuals. Some of the other things that -- that we look for are people who are highly-motivated. [00:51:14] You know, so maybe goal-oriented, highly-motivated, that's, you know, that describes our astronaut corp to a T. And so, so those are some of the factors that we're looking at, as well. And -- and, you know, so most of those things are objective, you know, you can -- you check them off, you know, yep, you're in the right age range, yep, you've got the right skillset or educational background, yep, you passed the physical. And then we also do some interviews and some assessments with the potential crew members and say, yep, this person's definitely goal-oriented, which, you know, helps us to say, you know, this person, if they set a goal to, you know, stay with us for 45 days, by golly, they're going to meet that goal. [00:52:02] >> That's true. Because you need good people and good data too. You don't want someone leaving halfway through it, just like, eh, I'm done. [00:52:09] >> Yep. [00:52:09] >> That would be a bad day. [00:52:10] >> That would be a bad day. Alright, well, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there like that, but it's interesting that you say, you know, in a perfect world, half -- half men, half women, is that -- is that the ultimate goal or do you kind of mix it up every once in awhile? [00:52:25] >> So that's -- that's our ultimate goal, and that is the goal that -- that we have from a research perspective. You know, so over the course of the campaign, they would really dearly love to see that 8 of the 16 were female and 8 of the 16 were male. So we -- we would like to have that, you know, that 50/50 split in each mission, but we also have to maintain schedule. And so, sometimes just the way it works out between the people who have applied and who have screened and been found acceptable, they may or may not be available for a specific mission. So we have had missions where all four crew members were male, we've had missions where all four crew members were female! And we've had missions with a 50/50 split, and we've had missions with, you know, three of one gender and one of the other. So, to some degree, we kind of take what we can get, or what's available, it generally comes very close to to 50/50 over the course of the campaign. [00:53:33] >> Alright. Well, hey, good -- best of luck to you for getting the candidates for -- for the HERA 5 I guess. What's the next one called? [00:53:41] >> Campaign five. [00:53:42] >> Campaign five, yeah. [00:53:43] >> Campaign five. [00:53:44] >> Very cool! Alright, well, I think that's a great place to wrap up, and if you stay tuned until afterwards, we'll tell you exactly where to sign up so you can possibly be a HERA crew member if you meet all the qualifications that Lisa said, but Lisa and Paul, thanks so much for -- for coming in today. Lisa, I know you're busy, so thanks for running over here [laughter]. I appreciate this. This was really cool! I really... [00:54:05] >> Yeah, thank you. [00:54:05] >> Just to know about HERA. I've been to HERA and visited a couple of times, but just to -- to dive in and understand what it's like to be there, that's -- that's pretty cool. So thanks again for coming on! [00:54:15] >> Thank you! [00:54:15] >> Absolutely! And if you're over 30, consider joining us. [00:54:20] >> Almost there. [Laughter] [00:54:23] [ Music ] Hey, thanks for sticking around! So, based on Lisa's description, if you think you're qualified to stay in HERA for those 45 day missions, and from what Paul was describing -- was describing, they sounded pretty cool. Just go to nasa.gov/analogs/HERA. That is the official HERA page, and if you scroll to the bottom, there's a box that says, want to participate, and there you can see all the qualifications and how to apply and all that kind of stuff and be prepared for campaign five next year. Those 45-day missions that Lisa was talking about, and the new mission profile that they're going to be doing. [00:55:24] We also like to post about HERA on social media, on the NASA Johnson Space Center accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If you have a question about HERA, just use the hashtag NASA on any one of those platforms, and ask a question about HERA, we'll answer it, otherwise, if you have an idea for the show that you want us to do, maybe you want us to do another episode on HERA or on something else entirely. Make sure to mention it's for, Houston, We Have a Podcast, and we'll make sure to answer it for you or even do a whole episode on it. So this podcast was recorded on November 16th, 2017. Thanks to Alex Perryman for producing the show, and thanks again to Miss Lisa Spence and Dr. Paul Haugen for coming on the show. We'll be back next week!

hwhwap_Ep29_The National Lab in Space

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-01-26

[00:00:00] Gary Jordan (Host): Houston We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 29, The National Lab in Space. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So this is the podcast where we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, sometimes some of our partners. We bring them right here on the show to tell you all the cool stuff about what's going on here at NASA. So today we're talking about the section of the International Space Station that's designated as a U.S. national laboratory. We're talking with Patrick O'Neill, the marketing and communications manager at the Center for Advancement of Science in Space, or CASIS. We had a great discussion about what it means to be a U.S. national lab, how CASIS is bringing research from companies, research to institutions, and government agencies to the Space Station, and the things we're learning that benefit human kind. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Patrick O'Neill. Enjoy. [00:00:53] [ Music ] Host: All right, well, Patrick, thanks so much for taking the time to come on the podcast, especially because you are remote, right? You're not even here in Houston. You're calling in from Florida, right? [00:01:26] Patrick O’Neill: I am over at Kenney Space Center as we speak. [00:01:29] Host: Awesome. And that's where CASIS is sort of housed? Is that where you guys are? Or are you kind of all over the place? [00:01:36] Patrick O’Neill: Well, we actually have a couple of houses across the country. But yes, in theory, this is kind of where our headquarters is based out of in the Kenney Space Center area, as well as Melbourne, Florida. But we also have strong office presence just outside of Johnson Space Center in Houston, and then we have a few more offices that are sporadically placed throughout the country. [00:01:54] Host: Very cool. All right, so you're over at the Kenney Space Center, yeah, Kennedy Space Center right now. So how's the weather over there? [00:02:00] Patrick O’Neill: The weather right now is, it's a tad cold. We had a little cold front come through. So it's nowhere near as bad as it is in places like the northeast, but, you know, we actually had to turn the heat on, and that's something that is a rare occurrence here down in Florida. [00:02:12] Host: Yeah, you know, I mean, over here, the weather has just been absolutely crazy. I'm sure you've been paying attention. But this past week, I mean, we had like ice and freezing rain and all the roads were covered in ice, and Houston just doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with that. So we just, you know, the center shut down. The south can't really deal with that stuff. And right now, it's freezing right now. I mean, we're in the studio, and the studio is always cold, but it's like, you know, 30s right now, which is, I'm sure the people in the north are thinking, man, that guy is definitely a baby when it comes to the cold. But, you know, when you're used to 60s and 70s in the winter, this can definitely, this can definitely get to you. [00:02:48] Patrick O’Neill: Well, you know, being in Florida right now, it's 55 when I hopped out of my car, and everyone is bundled up as though, you know, it's 15 outside. So, you know, I think that we are certainly living in First World problems as well. [00:03:00] Host: I've seen that before. I've been to-- it was an air show out at Ellington Field one time, and it was, it was low 60s and not a cloud in the sky. Absolutely crystal clear day. And I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt because the Sun was beating, and I thought it was a hot day, especially on the tarmac, but you had folks that were bundled up as if it was a cold winter day, and I could not believe it. Low 60s, and they were bundled up. It was crazy. [00:03:25] Patrick O’Neill: Can't take them anywhere. [00:03:26] Host: Okay, but we're not connecting, you know, from across, from Houston to Kennedy to talk about the weather. We're here to talk about the U.S. National Laboratory. And you being the marketing and communications manager of CASIS have a pretty good understanding of just CASIS as a whole. So why don't we just talk about that, you know, what is, what is CASIS? [00:03:49] Patrick O’Neill: Yeah, sure, so first and foremost, CASIS stands for the Center for the Advancement of Science in Space. Since we are kind of a brainchild of NASA, and since NASA equally likes to work in the world of acronyms, we decided to go out there and call ourselves CASIS. [00:04:01] Host: Good call. [00:04:02] Patrick O’Neill: And so in 2011, we were tasked with managing the U.S. National Laboratory aboard the International Space Station. [00:04:08] Host: Okay, and so that means what? Managing-- what is the U.S. National Laboratory? [00:04:14] Patrick O’Neill: What is it that you say you do here, yeah. So when I say that we manage the U.S. National Lab on the International Space Station, that means that we get to select, broker, manifest, and then promote the research that goes on the U.S. National Lab portion of the flight manifest. And so what do I mean by flight manifest is on a given resupply mission to send research and supplies to the station, there will be up to 50% of that research allocation that is designated as U.S. National Laboratory based research. And so we get that 50%. So we pick and choose the research that goes up. And within my role, I get to work alongside you and other folks at NASA to help communicate the benefits of the research that is going to the Space Station. [00:04:57] Host: Okay, I see. So the U.S. National Lab is a NASA thing. And then CASIS is the, you know, is the industry that manages it, I guess. [00:05:06] Patrick O’Neill: I would say that the U.S. National Laboratory is a U.S. thing. [00:05:10] Host: U.S. thing, I see. [00:05:11] Patrick O’Neill: And so a little bit of background on how the Space Station ended up becoming a National Laboratory. In 2005, Congress, in their infinite wisdom, they were looking at all the research that was happening on the Space Station, and, you know, it was catered towards NASA's exploratory endeavors, living and working in space, better understanding the human condition, so that you can do long duration space flight or go beyond low Earth orbit. And they said, that's terrific, and we're learning so much, but there's also so much more that we could be doing on this Space Station. What if we were to open it up to all sectors of the research community, whether that's Fortune 500 companies, or innovative startups, academic researchers, student investigators. I mean, there's so much that we could do on this Space Station. So what if we turn it into a National Laboratory and really kind of see what this thing is capable of from a research perspective, and see if we can't use the microgravity environment to benefit life on Earth. So in 2005, that's kind of how we got this, the concept of a National Laboratory. And then in 2010, I want to say, Congress worked with NASA saying, you know, we need to have a non-NASA entity, a non-profit organization manage the research on this U.S. National Laboratory. [00:06:25] And so in 2011, CASIS was selected by NASA to manage the National Laboratory, and we have been assuming management of the National Lab since that timeframe. [00:06:35] Host: There you go. Okay, so what was originally a laboratory for NASA, to do NASA research, now is opened up to-- is it anyone or is it just people in the U.S.? [00:06:47] Patrick O’Neill: So, and that's a great question. It is open, in theory, to anyone. However, you have to have U.S. subsidiaries or U.S. interests involved. So, I mean, there's a various of companies that we work with that might have headquarters overseas. But, you know, if it's a pharmaceutical company, I'll give you an example. Like Merck Pharmaceuticals, I believe that they're based, in theory, overseas, but they have such a large footprint here in the United States, and so we work with investigators that are based here in the U.S. [00:07:15] Host: I see. Okay, but then they can use, you know, they can go through CASIS. CASIS will manage getting whatever research that they want to do up on the International Space Station because it will eventually benefit the, you know, U.S. citizens. [00:07:30] Patrick O’Neill: Right, and what I would say, the caveat, again, is that the research that we manifest and broker and send to the Space Station and then send back down to the Space Station, in some cases, again, the caveat always has to be that there has to be a tangible benefit for life here on Earth as opposed to, again, NASA is much more focused on exploratory research endeavors. [00:07:50] Host: How about that? Okay, and you said 50%. That's a decent amount of research. [00:07:54] Patrick O’Neill: That's a pretty good chunk of change, right? [00:07:56] Host: Yeah, yeah, especially, I mean, you've got that balance of I guess, you know, there's a lot of human research that goes on that the astronauts do to themselves, right, to understand what is happening to the human body in space. And I'm sure there's other human research elements that are being done for people here on Earth, right? Or maybe it kind of even translates just the NASA studies and the U.S. National Lab studies. [00:08:24] Patrick O’Neill: Sure, so what I would say is think about a lot of the research that was happening on the Space Station, or even with the shuttle program bay in the day, that was focused on the astronauts, and kind of using them as the guinea pig, so-to-speak. But then you now have-- so you're able to understand basic concepts of life science research, or how bodies adapt, or in a microgravity environment. So a lot of the pre-research that was done has now set the foundation for a lot of the research that is going up from pharmaceutical companies. So NASA really set, or paved the way for a lot of the research that's going up now. Because now it's much more targeted, I think, based on a lot of the early findings that were had with astronauts in space for extended periods of time. [00:09:10] Host: Okay, so yeah, it kind of benefits everyone both ways, right? [00:09:12] Patrick O’Neill: Absolutely, yep. [00:09:13] Host: So you've got, you know, the citizens, but then also the astronauts. There you go. Okay, so let's talk about just, you know, CASIS and NASA. So you said, you know, Congress decided there needed to be a non-profit to manage all of this, so NASA didn't have to do it. And, you know, we can build this sort of industry of research that goes up into microgravity. And that's where CASIS comes in. So how is the relationship there with NASA and CASIS, and then with, and you said it was research partners, industry, how does that all work? [00:09:47] Patrick O’Neill: So what I would say first and foremost is that, you know, NASA and CASIS, you know, we truly like to use the concept that we are powered through partnership. Everything that we do, and I talk with your team on a daily basis headquarters, and, you know, so from a PR perspective, there's an awful lot of strategy in place from a communication perspective. There is equally the same thing from a program science perspective, you know, what are kind of the goals and objectives that we're all collectively trying to do so that we can communicate effectively to the public and to the research community that they could take advantage of this incredible research platform. So, you know, there is an awful lot of back and forth that happens on a daily basis between our collective organizations, and it's all done, again, with the intention of communicating about the science now, as well as the opportunities that might exist for researchers down the road. [00:10:34] Host: So is CASIS the one that actually goes out and finds people to bring research to the U.S. National Lab? [00:10:41] Patrick O’Neill: That's one of our jobs. And, you know, I'm sure that we'll talk a little bit more about maybe some of the other partners that are involved in helping to bring research to the Space Station and the National Lab, in particular. But yes, that's one of the definite core functions of CASIS is to seek out traditional partners, non-traditional partners, to try to just educate people, again, on how it is that, you know, your company or your research institution could be benefited from sending their research to the Space Station. And, you know, what I would throw in as a caveat for that, and that's something that I have a chance to go and do frequently, is helping to tell that story of sending research to station. You know, a lot of times when you go meet with a company, the first thing that they sit there and say is wow, that's really cool, but how expensive is this going to be? I mean, it just seems like sending something to and from the Space Station, that's just going to be, you know, time-intensive, labor-intensive, and it's going to be cost-prohibitive. And so one of the great things that has happened with the National Laboratory is that to send your research to the Space Station, to have the astronaut as your lab technician, to send the research back down, those are costs that aren't passed over to the researcher. [00:11:47] Those are costs that are not passed over to the particular company. Because those are costs that you and I as taxpayers of the United States of America have already made that investment into. So it's nowhere near as expensive to send your research to and from station, as folks would think. And now you're able to take advantage of it from a marketing and PR perspective. So especially if you're talking to major companies, you know, it's not only what it is that you're going to be able to learn, but how is it that you're going to be able to capitalize on this to separate yourself from your competitors, saying that we are doing more to be as innovative as we possibly can, and what's more innovative than sending research to the International Space Station? [00:12:25] Host: Yeah, but then, okay, so you got this cost element, and it seems like there's a lot of cost that's absorbed, so that way it makes it, like say it's not cost-prohibitive. You can actually do this, and it could be affordable, and you could get something out of it, especially from an innovative perspective. But then I'm sure, you know, you, as the marketing PR guy, you have a pitch for what is so great about microgravity, right? What is it that you can bring, what research can you bring to this microgravity environment, the only one that exists, and then, you know, accomplish what you need to accomplish? [00:12:59] Patrick O’Neill: Yeah, and so, you know, you kind of touched on it. I mean, you know, microgravity, in and of itself, I mean, the fundamental variable that we are all familiar with here on Earth is gravity. It's always around us at all times. I mean, there might be instances where you could potentially take it away, but not to the level that you can in a microgravity environment like the Space Station has. And so now, you know, you're able to really look at things in an entirely different dimension than you have ever looked at research previously. And it doesn't matter what type of research. Life science, physical science, material science, Earth observation, remote sensing, technology development, all of these are scientific factors that here on Earth, you know, again, there's gravity. Whereas up there, absolutely not. You don't have that same level of gravity. And you have an opportunity to be, to have your research exposed to this microgravity environment for, you know, 30, 60, sometimes longer than that days. And so from that, you know, what is it that you're able to learn when you are looking at things entirely different than you're used to in your typical laboratory setting. [00:14:02] Host: Sweet. Okay, so there's been a lot of research already that has been sent up to the International Space Station. And there's been experiments that have been exposed to microgravity. So what are some of the things we're finding? What are some of the cool things that you can get out of sending your stuff to microgravity? [00:14:17] Patrick O’Neill: Well, you know, I think we're going to need another podcast for that one. I mean, but again, I touched on it in my previous answer, it doesn't matter what type of scientific discipline you're focused on. I mean, microgravity has the ability to enable findings that, you know, just again, you're not going to find anywhere else. And one of the cool ones that came out last year, I want to say it was last year, was we brokered an investigation with Kentucky Space, and they sent planarian flatworms to the station, and they were looking to just kind of see how these worms regenerated in a microgravity environment. And they got a pretty peculiar result when one of them came back with two heads. And, you know, something like that, it's just, you know, you would just not think that that would be the case. And now all of a sudden, you have these worms on station for 30 days, they come back down, and then they just decide that they want to regenerate in entirely different ways. So that's a perfect example. We've sent a variety of rodent research investigations to the station. And we've done that for multiple reasons. I mean, first and foremost, rodents represent a model organism that you can take advantage of, and their growth pattern is nowhere near as lengthy as ours. [00:15:26] So if you're able to have rodents on station for 30 days, you know, that might be the vast majority of their adult life. And one of the reasons that you would send rodents up is based on using the astronauts in the past, you know, muscle wasting, bone density loss are greatly accelerated in a microgravity environment. So it almost, it almost truly accelerates that aging process, so-to-speak. And so you're able to kind of do that similar type of research on a rodent, for instance, and if they're on station for 30 or 60 days, that might be, again, the vast majority of their adult lifespan because of the fact that they're in space and it kind of accelerates that growth, that aging process. So what can you do from a muscle wasting or a bone density perspective when it comes to research, and how can that potentially help the aging population here on the ground, or how can it help those that have been wounded in battle? I mean, those are the types of research investigations that have been happening on station and will continue to happen on station, because it's all about trying to improve the care or the lifespan or the quality of life for those of us here on Earth. [00:16:28] Host: All right, yeah, learning a lot, especially, and this is one of those examples that we were talking about earlier, where this kind of goes both ways, right? So you can learn about just what happens to bones and muscles in their microgravity environment. And then get way more samples than you-- or examples. So you can kind of learn from them and then kind of bring what you learn and then bring it down to Earth for research on stuff like-- and I know one of them that comes to mind is research on osteoporosis, because it's a big, you know, bone disease. [00:16:57] Patrick O’Neill: Absolutely. [00:16:58] Host: Yeah, now, I'm sure, when you say you take your research and you send it up to space, right, I'm sure it's not just you just kind of throw it in the lab, right? I'm sure it's a laboratory, so there are facilities there. So what sorts of things can researchers or facilities can researchers put their environments in? [00:17:17] Patrick O’Neill: And I think that that's a great segue. Because to your point, it's not just as easy as just, you know, throwing it up there and seeing what happens. Anything that goes to the station first and foremost has to be sent up in flight certified hardware. And so when I talked earlier about, you know, the flight up, the flight down, the astronaut as your lab technician, all of those are costs that are not passed over to the researcher. So then that leads to the question of, well, what is the out-of-pocket cost that's going to be passed over to the researcher? And it's sending your research up in that flight certified hardware. And there are multiple companies, and this is one of the great things about station two, is it's not just a research angle, it's an opportunity for companies to be able to validate their research facilities, their ability to send research safely to and from Earth to a microgravity environment. So it's really kind of spanning a lot of different areas of opportunity. But as far as research facilities on station, you know, there's a lot of things that are very similar to that of your normal lab here on the ground. [00:18:23] I mean, so we talked a little bit about rodents. So we have a rodent research habitat. There's centrifuges, there's a 3D printer that is on station now, there is, let's see, we have a microgravity glove box that enables a wide variety of scientific discipline to include using a furnace on station. We have an external platform. If you want to put research on the outside of the station and test it in the extreme environment of space, that is now available to you. There is a DNA sequencer on station. I mean, there's so much that's going on that, you know, and again, it's not dissimilar from a lot of other lab settings that you would conduct your research in on Earth. [00:19:03] Host: All right, okay, so lots of different options too. And there's a lot of cool ones too. I mean, you can put your stuff outside the station and see kind of what happens to it. I mean, I'm guessing from like a radiation perspective, maybe from a temperature perspective, lack of pressure, or, you know, there's a lot of different things that you can find out. [00:19:22] Patrick O’Neill: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and to your point, you know, temperature variation, radiation, levels, I mean, those are some of the big critical ones that we talk about with perspective users of those external platforms. [00:19:35] Host: So a lot of the facilities and a lot of these kind of experiments, do they require astronauts to kind of have hands-on experience, or are there some that are just kind of running in the background? [00:19:46] Patrick O’Neill: So that's, first of all, that's a grade segue as well too, because I think that one of the issues that we run into, both from a CASIS standpoint, National Lab, and NASA, is, you know, you can only use the astronauts for so much time when they're on station. And so in a perfect world, is there a scenario where you're able to send research up into kind of a rack space where it's almost like a plug and play future, it's a simplistic environment where the astronaut just, again, pushes in this cartridge, so-to-speak, flips a switch, and the next thing you know, you have a science experiment that's going to be conducted for the next 30 days. So we have a mixture of both, where there are hands-on, more astronaut-intensive investigations. An example of that would probably be something like road research or research that's being taken place in a microgravity glove box or DNA sequencing. But then you also have a couple of companies that have rack space on the Space Station. And the two companies that come to mind are NanoRacks and Space Tango. [00:20:48] And think about that as facilities that are in a position to enable inquiries from life science to material science, and they just kind of go in this rack space, so-to-speak, and they kind of sit there for 30 days, and just it really depends on what the researcher is looking for. If they want to have a camera on the inside, if they want to have, if they want to test levels, if they want to, you know, have a light on, things like that, I mean, all of those could be configured based on the needs of the researcher. But it's done with the intention to really simplify the process, get as much research up as possible, and not have to take away from all of the time that the astronauts are using on station for other, other endeavors that they're involved with. [00:21:28] Host: Exactly. And I know crew time is always just a hot commodity because they have to do so much. I mean, just coming up next week, they have to-- and all of this week, they've really been preparing for a space walk, or I guess two this month. And it's just, you know, that's a huge chunk of time that they have to prepare, because, you know, space walks are very I guess just labor-intensive. They're out there for six and a half hours. They've got hours beforehand of prep, hours afterwards of debrief. It's just a long day, and everything has to be coordinated down to like the minute. I guess you can even say second, but I'll just say minute to make sure that the whole time is absolutely maximized. So they dedicate all this time beforehand, and then that, you know, they don't have as much time for research because they have to do everything up there, you know? There's no, there's no astronaut and then a lab technician and then plumber, you know? They are all three of those things. So it's crazy what they have to do. Sol I guess that's kind of helpful when things kind of run on their own. [00:22:31] But you're right, there's stuff that, you know, if you're going to sequence DNA, you actually have to inject it. You have to have an astronaut go in the glove box and put something in a DNA sequencer, or actually, you know, work with the rodents in the habitats. So, I mean, finding that crew time can be a little bit challenging at times I'm guessing, right? [00:22:51] Patrick O’Neill: It can be. And that's why, you know, we work in partnership with NASA to really kind of understand and identify the projects that are coming down our pipeline conversely with what it is that is a priority for NASA. So that way whenever we do send research up, we are able to maximize everyone's collective time. [00:23:07] Host: Okay, cool. So that thought makes me think of, or kind of lead to the whole process of getting research onboard the Space Station, right? You said, kind of your process. So what is that like? Now let's say you've gone out, you've connected with an industry or with a researcher, and they want to get something out in the International Space Station. What does that look like? [00:23:30] Patrick O’Neill: So the way that it would work is first and foremost, if you do want to send research to the Space Station, you've got to submit a proposal. So you have to submit a white paper that basically says, this is what I want to send to the Space Station, this is why I think the microgravity can enhance the findings of what it is that I'm presently doing on the ground. And so we have this kind of open forum where we allow anybody to submit a white paper at anytime, and then our team will evaluate that. And so as we are starting to evaluate these, first and foremost, the question we have to ask ourselves is, you know, does it need microgravity? I mean, is this something that can be done in your lab settings, or, you know, is it going to make sense to be done in a microgravity environment on the Space Station? Second of all, is it operationally feasible? Is it something that we can put into a facility that already exists on station? Is it something that's going to be safe to have beyond the Space Station? We don't want to endanger the lives of the astronauts. And then once we're able to kind of identify where this payload might end up going once it goes to station, then it passes over into kind of meat and potatoes, which is the science portion of it. [00:24:35] Okay, you know, what is the science relevancy of this? What is the tangible impact for benefiting life on Earth? And then all of these are, from a science perspective, evaluated from our science team, as well as subject matter experts that are not CASIS employees, because again, at the end of the day, we are good stewards, we want to be good stewards of this incredible research platform. You know, we don't want to be looked upon as just picking and choosing our favorite research from a Fortune 500 company. It's about science and science relevancy. And so once you kind of go through that portion, then is segues then into, you know, working with NASA, working with hardware partners that, again, we mentioned earlier, like the flight-certified hardware portion. So, you know, teaming up the researcher with a flight-certified hardware partner who can, you know, take that concept and morph it into an actual experiment that can go to station, that we manifest it, that it flies up, and then it gets, the research gets conducted. And then in some instances, the research comes back down for further evaluation. [00:25:37] And then in other instances, it either stays on station for an extended period of time, or eventually it will be put into the signal capsule, which then burns up in the Earth's atmosphere when all the research is done on Orbital ATK mission. [00:25:52] Host: Okay, and then the way it gets back is SpaceX, right? SpaceX is the return vehicle? [00:25:56] Patrick O’Neill: Right. [00:25:56] Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:25:56] Patrick O’Neill: Yep, so SpaceX is the return vehicle presently. But then hopefully in a couple of years, we will be able to have our friends over at Sierra Nevada, which will equally be in a position to send research back down to the research community. [00:26:07] Host: Oh, that's right, yeah, they have a return capability too. Okay, cool. Yeah, no, a lot of different options. All right, so you get this proposal, and then you're connected with flight hardware so you can kind of fit your experiment in this flight hardware and make sure everything is going to be working. And then you kind of work with commercial resupply company to actually send it up to the Space Station, right? [00:26:31] Patrick O’Neill: Right, so, you know, think of SpaceX and Orbital ATK as kind of the transportation to and from. But all of, you know, it's not as though we work directly with SpaceX or Orbital ATK. We actually work directly with NASA to identify the various payloads that are going to be going up. Because, again, at the end of the day, there's only a finite amount of payload space that we all have. And so it's working with NASA to understand the research priorities that they have on a particular mission, and us then being able to sit there and say, okay, you know, we want to put these number of projects in. How is that going to coincide with the research that NASA wants to send on this, you know, call it Orbital ATK mission? [00:27:14] Host: Okay, cool. Yeah, a lot of players in there. I mean, you've got CASIS, NASA, the commercial partners, you know, flight hardware providers, researchers, Fortune 500 companies. Oh my gosh. This can be get pretty expansive. [00:27:26] Patrick O’Neill: It's clear as mud, right? [00:27:29] Host: So how has this evolved over the years? Has this been kind of a growing thing? Or did it kind of explode all at once? What's the story behind this whole industry? [00:27:39] Patrick O’Neill: I would say it's a very growing thing. You know, I've been lucky enough to be with CASIS for just about six years now, which is the vast majority of the lifespan of the organization. So, you know, I've been privileged to kind of see how this has evolved over time. And, you know, I can say that when the ISS National Lab was first created, I think that there was a notion that overnight, you would just have all of these companies and researchers that are like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to send research to the Space Station. But that wasn't the case, you know? And I think that we realized that and recognized that very early on here at CASIS that companies didn't know that they could access station. Their researchers didn't know they could access station, let alone why they would want to access station. I mean, what could I learn in microgravity that I can't learn in my own lab? So the first couple of years of the organization was not only standing ourselves up, trying to figure out who we are and how we fit in this overall Space Station landscape, working with NASA, but also trying to work with the research community to let them know why they should want to take advantage of this Space Station. [00:28:45] So it took a couple of years to really help build up that notion of demand. And, you know, now we're starting to get into the golden years of the Space Station, as I like to say. And so last year was a perfect example where we had, you know, an many thanks to our partners over at SpaceX and Orbital ATK, you know, we had a terrific year of continuous research to and from station. And from that, you were really able to see a lot of the fruits of the labor of the hard work of NASA, of the CASIS team, along with our commercial partners like, you know, NanoRacks and Space Tango who are equally kind of bringing in their own research. And so the demand portion has kicked up exponentially over the last couple of years. And, you know, part of it is, you know, a derivative of having some recognizable commercial brands that are now starting to send their research to station. And part of it is also just, you know, over time, you know, enhancing how it is that we put together our pitch and educate people on how they could take advantage of station. [00:29:46] So it's been a process, but I would say that it's been an incredibly fun and unique process for all of us to be involved with. And, you know, now we're really able to, again, kind of enjoy the fruits of the labor. [00:29:58] Host: Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you think about it, it's all kind of new, right? I mean, you think about it, things going to space. That's a NASA thing, right? You know, you're talking about space agencies, international partners, like these big time players in the space world. But now, you know, now you're going to open it up to so many different people to actually send stuff to space. And the space industry itself, I see it all the time just constantly growing and people talking about it. It's kind of cool to see this thing kind of grow, expand and mature, I guess. [00:30:32] Patrick O’Neill: Well, and, you know, on top of that, too, I mean, it's funny, I was reading an article the other day where they were talking about the emergence of the suborbital research community. And, you know, one of the things that we talk about with suborbital research is that it might be a great precursor to setting the foundation for even better research on the International Space Station. So, you know, you now even have that community that is now part of this quote unquote space race, if you will. So there's just so much activity that's going on right now, both from a NASA standpoint, a Space Station standpoint. You have all of these commercial launch providers that are now starting to get into the mix. I mean, you know, you have to sit there sometimes and say, one of the reasons that they're all getting involved is because they see the opportunity, they see the demand is beginning to swell. And the Space Station is very indicative of that. [00:31:22] Host: Yeah, I like the way you say it, too. It's kind of like the golden age. But, you know, with competition comes innovation, so that's kind of exciting as well. So, you know, kind of leading, I guess leading into that is the kinds of research that we're seeing. Now that this industry is maturing and people are sending more and more things and there's recognizable players in the research space, you know, what kinds of research can we see go through CASIS and occur on the International Space Station? [00:31:51] Patrick O’Neill: So, you know, again, it really spans all scientific disciplines. But, you know, as we're kind of forecasting into 2018, you know, I guess it gives me a good opportunity to plug some of the research that we're expecting to have go up hopefully in a couple of months on the next SpaceX resupply mission. [00:32:08] Host: Okay. [00:32:08] Patrick O’Neill: And, you know, it really, it's kind of a diverse set. I mean, so we have research that's looking at wound healing. We have research that's looking at metabolic activity tracking. We're going to be having two new facilities that are going to go on station that help to enable further research. One of them is going to be kind of an updated centrifuge. And so that centrifuge is going to be able to, you know, have research almost be side by side. Maybe you have one that is, you know, reacting because of microgravity, but then you have a centrifuge right next to it, and maybe you're trying to create conditions that are similar to what it's like on Earth. So you have this, you know, these two differing types of investigations that are now happening right next to each other. And you're not having to do one research on the ground simultaneously with another one in space to see kind of, you know, what the reaction difference is. Now you've got them right next to each other. So that's kind of a cool principle for researchers to take advantage of. Another research platform that's going to go up, it's called the missing platform. But it's going to greatly enhance materials research investigations on the Space Station. [00:33:12] So, you know, those are two new facilities that are going to be going up, again, adding to the already very diverse amount of facilities in research that's possible. We even have, you know, student investigations that are going to be going up, some looking at genetics. And then NASA's got a wide variety of payloads that are going to be going up too. So, I mean, there's an awful lot that's happening right now. I also want to say, plant biology research is going to be another fixture that's going to be involved in this upcoming mission. So all sorts of stuff going on. [00:33:43] Host: Yeah, definitely. We actually had a couple, you know, things come back on SpaceX 13. You know, when you're talking about research going up, and then, you know, some of it kind of stays there, some of it burns up, some of it comes back, there's plants that were actually on SpaceX 13, right? [00:33:58] Patrick O’Neill: There were plants, yeah. There was a couple of different plant biology experiments that went up. One from an academic institution, and then one from a very recognizable commercial brand. But, you know, I think that, you know, plant biology research is a great example that it spans all sectors. You know, NASA has been doing plant biology research on station and on shuttle for years. I mean, you know, the Veggie project is something that has gotten great visibility as astronauts try to get beyond low Earth orbit, they're going to need to harvest or create their own food supplies. So NASA has been involved in that. But then you have academic researchers who are looking to just kind of ask those basic questions of how do plants react when, you know, you no longer have gravity as a variable? Which ways do they grow? Why do they grow that way? You know, what happens when you don't have that much sunlight on them, you know, how do they react? But then you also have commercial companies that are now sending plant biology research experiments to station with the intention of improving agricultural processes here on the ground. But, you know, again, it's really hitting on so many different areas now. [00:35:02] I mean, again, whether it's government organizations, academic researchers, commercial companies. And all of that, in some ways, is kind of what you want for the National Lab. You want a variety of thoughts and ideas for how to tackle various types of research. [00:35:15] Host: Yeah, definitely. Well, Veggie is a great example because Veggie is a facility, right? [00:35:20] Patrick O’Neill: Right. [00:35:20] Host: So it's a place where if you need to do plant research, this is where you're going to do it. It's one of the places on the Space Station where you can do it. And it's just from, you know, kind of playing with plants in space that they've come up with, all right, we're going to use, we're going to use lights, these LED lights, and we're going to use these things called pillows, and they're going to grow in these pillows where it has all the soil and nutrients and nutrient delivery system. And then they just came up with this place. And now boom, if you want to grow a plant or see what happens to a plant, this is where you're going to do it. And, you know, the one you said before was Outredgeous red romaine lettuce. That was actually the first time that Americans ate lettuce on the station. That was pretty cool. [00:36:01] Patrick O’Neill: That was pretty cool. Well, and, you know, so projects like that bring I think great visibility for, you know, exploratory purposes. But then there's also a lot of projects that are happening on station that have kind of a dual usage or, you know, NASA and CASIS and the ISS National Lab working together in partnership. And one of the ones that just came back too was a run research investigation where, you know, think of NASA as kind of being the leaders of the rodent portion of it, and then the National Lab working on kind of the research side of it. So the Houston Methodist Research Institute partnered with pharmaceutical giant Novartis, and they were looking at implantable chips in rodent research, again, with the hope of ultimately improving life on Earth, whether that be through cancer understandings, as well as things like osteoporosis and diabetes. [00:36:56] Host: Whoa. Okay, so it's a device that can actually be implanted and kind of help out with that, right? [00:37:01] Patrick O’Neill: Right, and hopefully better monitor conditions within your body. [00:37:05] Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:37:06] Patrick O’Neill: Then also, you know, speaking of something like that, we also had another one that just came back down that was a glucose biosensor that was looking to improve day-to-day diabetes management. So the efficacy of insulin being, you know, disseminated into the body to make sure that it has max potency. [00:37:25] Host: Okay, yeah. So a lot of like, you know, a lot of these medical kind of industries kind of in this space, right? [00:37:32] Patrick O’Neill: Yeah, I would say, you know, think about it like this too. It's almost, you know, like low-hanging fruit, if you will. So we see an awful lot of pharmaceutical companies that have been involved in life science research on station. But again, a lot of that kind of pre-dates the National Lab concept, and was really kind of harkening back to the research that NASA was doing, specifically on the astronauts, living and working in space. And then, you know, some of those, some of those basic understandings now being passed over and allowing the private sector to be able to take advantage of some of those early findings and now incorporate that into their research that can hopefully create therapeutics or drugs that can improve patient care here on Earth. [00:38:12] Host: Nice. All right, so the glucose biosensor one, that one, I saw a picture of it. It's like super tiny, right? It can fit on your finger. [00:38:20] Patrick O’Neill: Fits the little guy. [00:38:22] Host: Yeah, so my question is how-- what about microgravity makes the Space Station a good place to test that tiny little sensor? [00:38:32] Patrick O’Neill: So it's not so much the sensor itself, but I think that it was more focused on the fluid flow of, you know, kind of shooting out that insulin and making sure that it is as efficient as possible. So, you know, you send, you know, you send this thing up with the insulin or a mockup thereof, and again, kind of see how that flows in a microgravity environment. Again, done with the intention of really maximizing every time that it kind of shoots out into your body. [00:39:02] Host: That's right. Okay, yeah, making sure that it's consistent, right? No matter where it is or what you're doing. [00:39:07] Patrick O’Neill: Not just consistent, but, you know, that it's also giving you the most powerful and most effective kind of shoot so that way it gets into your blood as fast as possible, and you're able to kind of go about living your life in a normal capacity as opposed to, you know, maybe waiting 15 to 20 minutes. Maybe this is going to be much more instantaneous into your body. [00:39:27] Host: Yeah, okay. Yeah, there's a lot of cool studies. Another one on SpaceX 13 that I'm thinking of. They are actually trying to manufacture fiber optic filaments, right? And try to figure out, you know, like space manufacturing, right? So I guess are they trying to build a space manufacturing kind of industry? Or just kind of test its capability on Earth and kind of the same thing, right? Make sure it's as powerful, as consistent, that kind of thing. [00:39:56] Patrick O’Neill: Right, yeah. So our partners over at Made In Space, they are also quite famous for having the 3D printer on station. They kind of wanted to take that next step into looking at on-orbit manufacturing capabilities. And so, you know, that's kind of where you're looking at fiber optic technology, which, you know, could potentially enhance, you know, I guess a lot of the things that might be happening within the advanced communication, or, you know, DOD type communities. So, you know, Made In Space was looking to see, you know, how do these filaments react in a microgravity environment? Can I grow them, you know, more purely so that maybe it's something that is grown in space, or, you know, harvested, if you will, even though it is fiber optic technology, but then taking that back down to Earth and actually selling that. So, yeah, I mean, how can we use the Space Station as an ever-evolving platform, not only for research, but also, again, for on over manufacturing capabilities. It really is kind of an interesting way to think about the Space Station as we continue to move forward. [00:40:57] And there's going to be other companies that are equally looking to do similar types of on over manufacturing capabilities in the future. And that's almost, again, when we're talking about the Station, that's what makes it to exciting right now. It's not just research, and it's not just, you know, the commercial companies that are sending research out, or academic researchers, but it's companies being able to leverage microgravity to enhance their business findings, and, you know, validate why it is that we need to continue to have a commercial presence in low Earth orbit, potentially beyond this Space Station. [00:41:29] Host: That's right. You know, one of the things that always comes to mind when it talks about growing stuff in space, the thing that I always think about is protein crystals, because that was kind of-- that one was kind of, I guess you can call surprising, because they actually grew differently, and I guess you could say almost more perfectly, because they didn't have stuff weighing down on them. Was it a positive finding? [00:41:53] Patrick O’Neill: It's a very positive finding. [00:41:55] Host: Yeah. [00:41:55] Patrick O’Neill: So, you know, there's a variety of companies that have been doing protein crystallography research, or academic researchers that are looking at protein crystals. And I think that you actually kind of hit it on the head. You know, in a microgravity environment, you're able to grow crystals in a more uniformed or perfect manner, which would potentially allow for you to dig in and better understand the genetic makeup of some sort of a, you know, a protein. And, you know, one that comes to mind for me that has gone up multiple times is we have partners over at Merck Research Laboratories, and they have sent three separate, I want to say, protein crystallography experiments, and it's being done with the intention of improving the efficacy of KEYTRUDA, which is an FDA-approved drug that is now done for cancer patients. And so right now, even though the drug is already on the market, if you go and, you know, you get shot up with this, you're basically in the hospital for an entire day. So what Paul Rickert, the lead researcher over at Merck is trying to do with these protein crystallography experiments, is grow these crystals at a better rate, a larger rate, so that, again, he can dig into the genetic makeup of these proteins and find a way to improve the potency of this drug so that instead of you, as a patient, being at a hospital all day, you know, maybe you just go see your doctor, and he gives you a shot, and 10 minutes later, you're walking out the door, 30 minutes later, you're out playing golf. [00:43:20] I mean, you know, it's about trying to make your life a little bit easier. But, yeah, so cool stuff like that with a protein crystallography experiment. But yeah, again, it's really trying to make things a little bit larger so that you can dig into them and look at genetic structures of proteins in a new and novel way. And microgravity, it's not to say that you can't do protein crystallography on the ground. But microgravity has shown a propensity for having much larger crystals, because, again, you're no longer having the push and pull of gravity as a vector. Now you have microgravity around you, and it really allows for these crystals to grow in much more of a natural state, so-to-speak. [00:44:01] Host: Super cool. I love it. You know, so you've got things that are actually growing I guess more perfectly, and you said larger in space, but I know that using the Space Station can actually make things a little bit less expensive too. I think a good example is satellites, actually launching satellites. [00:44:20] Patrick O’Neill: Yeah. [00:44:20] Host: Do you guys work with companies to launch satellites from the Space Station? [00:44:24] Patrick O’Neill: So there is one company in particular that we work with who, you know, not only do they have rack space on the Space Station, not only do they have an external platform on station, but they also have the ability to send cube satellites into low Earth orbit from the Space Station. And that's a company called NanoRacks. And so we work in partnership with them. All of their research that flies to the ISS flies under the ISS National Laboratory manifest. And so we work with them to identify, you know, which cube satellites they want to send, why they want to send it, and the timeframe behind it. And so, you know, that's a perfect example of it's not just CASIS as, you know, going and securing research. It's some of these partners like a NanoRacks or a Space Tango who are working with researchers, and equally kind of talking about why it is that they would want to send their research to Station, or [inaudible] research from Station. And so NanoRacks is the entity that we work heavily with who is responsible for, again, deploying those cube satellites. [00:45:29] Host: And they're called cube satellites because they are much smaller than like a satellite that you would normally think about, right? When you think of satellite, you think of like this giant floating dish in low Earth orbit, right? But they are much smaller. [00:45:41] Patrick O’Neill: They are much smaller. You know, think about it as, you know, your satellite being housed in a shoebox. And that shoebox just being shot out of the Space Station. And, you know, maybe it gets a little bit bigger once it gets outside of the Space Station parameters, but maybe it doesn't as well. I mean, it just really depends on what the researcher is looking to try to do and how big they want to go. [00:46:04] Host: So what do these small satellites do? What are they capable of? [00:46:08] Patrick O’Neill: Wow, you know, what aren't they capable of, you know? I mean, so, you know, I think when you think of satellites, the typical idea would be, you know, Earth monitoring in some capacity. But, you know, there was one that went up, I want to say it was on SpaceX-CRS13, or Orbital ATK-8, but it was actually E. Coli was put in a satellite and sent into low Earth orbit to kind of see how it reacts and morphs in a microgravity environment. But, you know, obviously it's being [inaudible] away from the Space Station. So I don't really know what the findings of that were. But something like that is pretty doggone cool, where, you know, it's not just, you know, true satellite technology, but, you know, now, you know, sending life science into, in a cube satellite, and seeing how that reacts in the extreme environment of space. [00:46:57] Host: Sweet. So there's like this fleet of shoeboxes just kind of circling around here. That's what I'm imagining. I don't know. They're all doing all different kinds of stuff, right? [00:47:07] Patrick O’Neill: They are doing all sorts of cool work, yeah. [00:47:09] Host: Yeah, yeah, very cool. All right, yeah, lots of different, lots of different research going on, and CASIS is kind of at the center of that, kind of managing this back and forth of research, going up and down and all around. So that's awesome. I did want to kind of end with this cool contest that you've got going on right now. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? [00:47:30] Patrick O’Neill: Right, so, you know, I get the fun job, I guess, where, you know, I get to go out and talk with you about research at a very high level. But then also I get the opportunity to work alongside some truly unique partners who can bring great visibility to the Space Station. And also, you know, I think that one of the areas I forgot to touch on earlier was that one of the key functions of CASIS and the National Lab is to help inspire and engage the next generation of scientists and engineers. And so every year what I'll typically do is I'll work with a unique brand to develop one mission patch that represents all ISS National Laboratory research. So last year, for instance, we worked with Lucasfilm who developed a Star Wars themed mission patch, which was pretty doggone cool. And then in 2016, though, and this is kind of where, you know, a longwinded response, where we're kind of getting with this contest, in 2016, we partnered with Marvel, and they developed a mission patch that featured Rocket and Groot from the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise. [00:48:27] Host: Cool. [00:48:27] Patrick O’Neill: And so what I was hoping to try to do out of that was not just have a mission patch, which brings, you know, some awareness to the Space Station. But is there a way to create an actionable item that we can take from this mission patch and spread it to the masses? And so what we ended up doing is working with Marvel to create a stem competition that is focused on Rocket and Groot and the characteristics associated with them. So we now have a contest that is live for students in the United States aged 13 to 18. And, you know, they can just simply go and submit flight concepts on the characteristics of Rocket and Groot, and, you know, for instance, you have Rocket, who is general innovation, and, you know, enabling technology development, material science. But then you have Groot, and he is kind of like the personification of plant biology or regeneration. So students, you know, how could you do something on the Space Station that's focused on regeneration or seeing how plants or something like that react in space? [00:49:30] So, you know, we're really trying to encourage students to think about their favorite superheroes in a new and different way, and equally link that to how the Space Station could create some fun stem opportunities. [00:49:42] Host: Cool. Okay, so they're designing research for each of these teams, or is it like a set, a set thing that they have to accomplish, like what's the whole contest? [00:49:53] Patrick O’Neill: So the contest itself is actually fairly basic, where it's truly submitting a white paper. You know, if you want to, if you're interested in material science, and, you know, thinking about, you know, how Rocket would want to do research on the Space Station, you know, what would you send to the Space Station? Why would you send it? What could you learn that you can't learn here on Earth? Conversely, you know, if you're a fan of regeneration, you know, how can microgravity enhance regenerative medicine? You know, submit a concept on what you want to send, why you want to send it. I mean, it's basic, yet at the same time, what we're going to end up doing when the contest is done is we're going to select two concepts, one from Team Rocket, one from Team Groot, and we're going to turn those concepts into actual experiments, and they will launch to the Space Station later this year. [00:50:44] Host: Ah, sweet. Yeah, there's your actionable item, right? An actual thing that a student design that is going on the Space Station. [00:50:51] Patrick O’Neill: Yep, an actual, an actual item. And, you know, the cool thing for the students, too, is they're going to have the chance to, you know, not only put this concept, you know, together, but they're going to work alongside our hardware partners, our engineering partners, to make this, you know, something that can truly be turned into an actual experiment. So, you know, you're going to get an awful lot of practical application if you're a young student. And, you know, I can't think of a better thing to put on your resume than to sit there and say that, you know, over the summer or over the second semester, I got a chance to put together an experiment that flew to the International Space Station. [00:51:25] Host: Man, I wish I could put something like that on my resume. That would be cool. [00:51:28] Patrick O’Neill: Well, there's a reason why, you know, I went to a state school and not a smart person's school. [00:51:33] Host: Hey, me too, man. I'm a marketing PR kind of major too. So I look up to these guys for sure, because what they can accomplish is just astounding. [00:51:44] Patrick O’Neill: Absolutely. [00:51:44] Host: Especially to get students involved this early, you know? Because if I had known, you know, there was a Rocket and Groot kind of contest and I could submit something, you know, maybe I would have went the science route. Well, looking back, I don't know. We'll see. I'm happy where I am now. I'm happy where I am now. But still, it's just, it sounds like an amazing opportunity. [00:52:02] Patrick O’Neill: It does. And, you know, I guess I have to actually give it the official title for the contest, or the challenge, is the Guardians of the Galaxy Space Station Challenge. So, I mean, if I'm doing shameless plugs, then, you know, if you are a student, if you're a teacher and you want to pass this over to your students, if you're a parent and you want to pass this over to your child, you know, I would say that go to the following website, spacestationexplorers.org/marvel, and you'll be able to find not only information on the contest, but you'll also be able to find examples of research that's been done, both from a materials science standpoint technology development, and then also plant biology regeneration. So it's kind of a one-stop shop that is able to provide as much information as possible for the students to be dangerous and submit their concepts. [00:52:48] Host: How long is the contest going on? [00:52:50] Patrick O’Neill: I wish I could say it's going to be going on in, you know, like infinitely, but it's not. It's going to be pretty quick turnaround. So the contest runs until the 31st. So we have about a week and a half to go. But, again, what I would say is that it's a pretty basic submittal process. So, you know, we're not asking for the Moon here, you know, we're asking for a couple of paragraphs. And, you know, who knows? Maybe your paragraphs are going to be the one that gets selected, and you could be that lucky person that gets to watch your payload fly to the Space Station, and, you know, we can go and spread that to the masses and let people know all the cool research that's possible on Station. [00:53:24] Host: Yeah, definitely. Okay, yeah, we're definitely going to have to turn this episode around real quick so we can get this out, so we can get it out during the contest, give people a couple extra days and a little extra promotion for it. That's so cool to send stuff to the International Space Station. Among all this other great research that's already up there and constantly going up and down, like you said, the golden age of research onboard the International Space Station. Patrick, thank you so much for coming on and talking about the National Lab, and just explaining how this whole process, how this whole, I could say industry at this point, how this whole thing works. So I really appreciate you coming on. [00:53:59] Patrick O’Neill: Absolutely, Gary. This was a lot of fun. And we touched on a lot of different subjects. And hopefully we didn't confuse everyone too much. [00:54:07] Host: I love this. So this is definitely my world. So I really appreciate it. And we'll kind of reiterate those links that you said at the end there after the credits here. So once again, thanks, Patrick, and good luck with the contest. [00:54:21] Patrick O’Neill: Thank you very much. Happy Friday. [00:54:23] [ Music ] [00:54:49] Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today, we talked with Mr. Patrick O'Neill about CASIS and everything about the industry that's kind of growing as we talked about during this, during this podcast. But at the end there, he was talking about a contest that's going on right now. So I'm going to kind of start with that. So again, that link that he talked about is spacestationexplorers.org/marvel. You can go there, and then they kind of give the outline of the contest that's going on and what you need to do to submit your proposal, and as Patrick said, the white paper. Again, that contest is running through January 31st. So make sure to turn those around pretty quick. You've got a couple more days. But it's a pretty cool contest. And at the end of it, you may get to have your research proposal turned into actual research that goes on the International Space Station. That's pretty cool. So if you want to learn more just about CASIS in general, because, you know, we talked about a lot of the research that's going on, all the time going up and down, that's iss-casis.org, and that's their website. [00:55:53] You can find out just more about that industry, and then, or about that business, a little bit more about the industry, too, but then all of the different research that's going up and down. So on social media, CASIS is @isscasis. Twitter is @iss_casis. And Instagram is @iss_casis, as well. Otherwise, you can find me, follow the International Space Station, as we say, almost every show. That's International Space Station on Facebook. And then @space_station@iss. That's Twitter and Instagram, as we always say. And then on the ISS accounts, if you use the #asknasa on your favorite platform, you can submit an idea for an episode of the podcast, or maybe ask a question. Even if you do, honestly, we've done it before, we've seen questions and said, hey, that would be an awesome episode. Actually, I think the space suits episode. And then, yeah, yeah, a couple of them. And I think we have actually more coming up. Just make sure to mention in the #asknasa that it's for Houston We Have a Podcast. [00:56:54] So this podcast episode was recorded on January 19th, 2018, thanks to Alex Perryman and Greg Weisman and the folks at Kenney Space Center, Lauren Mathers, everyone over there, thanks so much for connecting me and CASIS, me and Patrick today, and making this all come together. Thanks again to Mr. Patrick O'Neill for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

Fight Swack, Adapt to Climate Change or How to Use Humor to Engage the Public in Climate Issues

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Ellis, R.; Elinich, K.; Johnson, R.; Fink, J.; Crawford, J.

2014-12-01

We are carefully considering how a humor-based campaign can help us communicate important climate change messages. Using pilot campaign strategies, we have engaged local residents in focus groups and interviews to understand how effective the approach can be. Growing educational research suggests learning about climate change can lead to feelings of depression, fear and inaction. Climate change seems too big of a task to take on. But with sweaty back (or "swack" as it's known in some circles), there's a public enemy that can be defeated. As only one piece of an innovative model for informal climate change education, the Climate and Urban Systems Partnership repositions the war on climate change by declaring a war on swack instead. This way, we can talk about climate change in a way it has never been talked about before that will certainly get people's attention. It also answers the common question of, "Yeah, but how does it affect me?" We're educating about responses to climate change because heat waves, floods, and excessive back sweat all kinda suck a lot.

Plant intelligence

PubMed Central

Lipavská, Helena; Žárský, Viktor

2009-01-01

The concept of plant intelligence, as proposed by Anthony Trewavas, has raised considerable discussion. However, plant intelligence remains loosely defined; often it is either perceived as practically synonymous to Darwinian fitness, or reduced to a mere decorative metaphor. A more strict view can be taken, emphasizing necessary prerequisites such as memory and learning, which requires clarifying the definition of memory itself. To qualify as memories, traces of past events have to be not only stored, but also actively accessed. We propose a criterion for eliminating false candidates of possible plant intelligence phenomena in this stricter sense: an “intelligent” behavior must involve a component that can be approximated by a plausible algorithmic model involving recourse to stored information about past states of the individual or its environment. Re-evaluation of previously presented examples of plant intelligence shows that only some of them pass our test. “You were hurt?” Kumiko said, looking at the scar. Sally looked down. “Yeah.” “Why didn't you have it removed?” “Sometimes it's good to remember.” “Being hurt?” “Being stupid.”—(W. Gibson: Mona Lisa Overdrive) PMID:19816094

hwhap_Ep30_Infamous Meteorites

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-02-01

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have A Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 30, Infamous Meteorites. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So on this podcast, we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all to let you know the coolest stuff about what's going on right here at NASA. So today, we're talking about some of the more unique findings that have been discovered in meteorites with David Mittlefehldt, goes by Duck. He's a planetary scientist here at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, and we had a great discussion about curious findings in meteorites, and the adventures that are endured to procure them. So, with no further delay, let's go lightspeed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt. Enjoy! [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] Host: Duck, thanks for coming to the podcast today. I know we've -- we've talked about searching for life and meteorites before, and it's -- it's such a fascinating topic, but I really wanted to dive deeper, just into like the meteorites portion. We really -- we really actually had a great conversation with Dr. Aaron Burton and -- and Dr. Marc Fries, not too long ago, actually, about life, but really just about the meteorites themselves. There's a -- there's a big story there, and you're one of the explorers that are going down and actually finding these meteorites, huh? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, yeah. I've done that on a number of occasions. Host: Yeah. And it's -- is it -- is it mostly in Antarctica, or are you going other places? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, okay, so most of the times I've been searching for meteorites has been in Antarctica, so I've been down there five times, meteorite collecting expeditions, but I -- I've [pause] -- I was on vacation in Israel once, and I met up with a couple of geologists at a coffee house, and one of them had just published a paper where they -- he described, you know, old surfaces in the deserts of southern Israel that are, you know, have been stable for about 2 million years. And I'm thinking, you know, over 2 million years, you can accumulate a lot of meteorites, so, I actually went there the foll -- later that year, and met up with them again, and we searched some of these areas that are -- have very ancient pavements on the desert, and hunting for meteorites. We didn't find any, unfortunately, and, you know, I'm not quite sure why, there -- there should have been some there, but, you know, it was a small team searching large area over short time, so it may well be that they're there, but we just didn't find any, because the ones that, you know, are there are small. The other is there were a number of issues with that particular location. Meteorites, you know, when we find meteorites, they're typically black on the outside, because they've gone through the atmosphere and they're covered with this glassy, fusion crust, which is almost always black. The area we had searched in southern Israel actually had a number of dark rocks in it, as well. So, you know, the meteorites, if they were there, would not have stood out as -- like -- like, you know, the beacons that you see when you're in Antarctica, scooting across the bare ice, so. Host: I guess that -- is that the main reason why Antarctica is such a great place to find meteorites? Is because it's these black rocks against white snow? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, that certainly makes it easy, because [Gary laughing] you -- you can see, you know, a rock, I'm going to use metric units because that's what I'm used to, I'll try and remember to throw in inches and feet as I can, but, so, you know, you can find a -- a black rock, a couple of centimeters across or about an inch across, from a great distance in Antarctica on the ice. And -- and, as you say, it's because you're looking at either pale blue ice or sometimes white snow, most of the meteorites we find are on the pale blue ice. But even so, it's very bright in comparison to rock. So they're easy to find there. The other thing is in Antarctica, we have a convenient concentration mechanism, which is the actual flow and ablation of the ice across the continent, and where we go to find them the meteorites is -- is actually in locations where the ice movement has been stalled, and ablation by the Antarctic winds and -- and warming by the Antarctic sun, allow a lag deposit to develop on the surface. So we're actually collecting meteorites that have been, you know, shoved from a great geographic area and then left behind in a smaller geographic area. So we have, you know, base -- we have both the easy-to-spot and -- and the concentration mechanism working in our favor. Host: Alright! Yeah, they're -- they're plentiful down there. So -- so you made quite a few trips. How many was it? You said five? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, I've been down five times. The first time was in the '97, '98 field season. That was my first Antarctic experience, and I loved it so much I kept volunteering to go back again. Host: You loved Antarctica? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Oh yeah [Gary laughing], I -- I love it, you know, just -- just last week, well, here in Houston, we had temperatures that Houstonians think of, or Texans think of as cold, but, me, I see that as maybe a cold fall day. Because I -- I was born and raised in western New York. Host: Alright. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And at the same time, you know, my hometown was getting temperatures, okay, again, I've got to do some conversion here, about maybe, you know, between 0 and 5 degrees Fahrenheit. And, you know, that was the weather I grew up in winter, and I loved it. Winter was always my favorite season when I was a kid. Alright. So maybe it's a deep love of winter that really -- because I just came from this -- we're just coming back from the holidays now, and it was -- it was negative 2 in Pittsburgh when I -- when I was flying home, and, I mean, I was -- I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, moved around a lot, but I'm not used to it by any means. Like, I like the -- I like the, everyone, you know, saying, oh my gosh, 32 is really cold! And I'm like, [laughing], I'm okay with just that. Host: For me, I -- I loved the deep winter in western New York. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Alright, a lot of snow there too. Host: So when was the last time you were down in Antarctica then? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So I was down last year, 2016, 2017, it was kind of a disappointment for me, personally. Host: Oh. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: I -- I -- because of my experience, I've been down four times before, I -- I left early and was going to go out on a recon sweep with the -- the mountaineer field safety officer for the ANSMET program. ANSMET, by the way, stands for Antarctic Search for Meteorites, and that's the program that goes down to collect the rocks and has been doing so every year, but once, since 1976. Host: Alright! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: But, anyway, because of my experience, I was going to go down on this recon before the main season. We were going to go to one area, check it out for potential systematic work in a future season, and then stay for the first half of the main season, going to a location deep along the Antarctic, transAntarctic mountains. Well, it turns out logistics were badly broken last year. And partly because of weather, partly because of problems with the aircraft and so on, so I got out into the field for a week, in preseason, I got back to McMurdo Station while we were gearing up for the main season, but the logistics just broke and so they were not going to go out where they originally planned. The team ended up going to where I had been out on recon, but it was -- they got such a late start that it made more sense to ship me home early rather than, you know, go out for maybe a week and then come back into McMurdo and go home. Host: Yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So I -- I just spend one week out in the field last year. Host: Ahh... Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Much -- much to my chagrin. Host: [Laughing] So it was just the lack of time that you spent there, that was really the disappointment. Yeah, yeah, it was [inaudible] time, and, you know, in the brief time that John Scott [phonetic] and I, he's the mountaineer, were out on the ice, you know, we -- we'd spend a week in the field, two and a half days we were tent-bound because the weather was so bad, but even so, we found 46 meteorites in the short time we were there. Host: That's amazing! Yeah. Host: Wow. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And -- and remind -- and remember, this was an area that had been heavily harvested back in the 80's, 70's and 80's, we were going to back to see whether there was still great potential for harvesting more meteorites there, and, in fact, I think last year they ended up coming -- picking up a total of 200 and some meteorites, even with, you know, going back to an area that had been searched before, and having a shortened season because the logistics. So, I mean, that -- that kind of shows you the -- the quality of Antarctica as a -- as a site for bringing back space rocks. It's just awesome! Host: Incredible! So is -- is that -- is it because there's just a fresh, I guess you could call it, supply of meteorites that are landing on the surface of Antarctica, or is it things are shifting? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: It's more things are shifting. In part, you know, deflation of the surface continues, as ablation goes on, and so new meteorites are poking through. In part, it's shifting winds blowing snow around, so an area that might have been snow covered earlier season, maybe now has been stripped bare and there's bare ice. And so that allows you to see things. So for a variety of reasons, you can go back to the same place you've searched once, and -- and still find meteorites out there. Host: Incredible. And hundreds of them, a little bit better than Israel, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah [laughter]. Might have been better than my experience trying to find meteorites in the Negev Desert. Host: [Laughing] So -- so you're saying a season. When you're going down to Antarctica, I'm assuming it's the summer there, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, it's austral summer. Host: Yeah. So that means the sun is up 24/7, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Right. Host: So you kind of have to deal with that when you're -- when you're down there, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, you know, I've -- I've become accustomed to that. The first -- I was kind of -- there was a guy who used to work in our building who had been down I think a year or two before me, so I took advice from him, and he said, you know, one of the things is, you know, with the constant sunlight, sometimes sleep can be a problem. So I bought a heavy, black knit hat, and, you know, I just put that on as my sleep hat, and then pulled the brim over my eyes, and so everything was black. So I -- I could sleep fine down there. Host: Oh, nice! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: But the, you know, the main advantage is that because the sun's up 24/7, you're not really bound by the 9 to 5 time sequence. Host: Oh, yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, as I said, when we -- when I was out last year in the -- in the recon site, we were there for a week, you know, we -- we landed, got our gear, and then went, spent a half a day out, then the -- the winds blew in, it was too windy and cold to go out, so the winds broke around noon one day, or a little bit after noon. We decided we would have an early supper and then go out and collect -- harvest meteorites. So that day, we ended up getting out of the tents maybe 5 o'clock in the evening, and we worked about till 30, 2 in the morning. Host: Woah! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: The sun was up, it was perfectly fine, it was just my age and body crapping out at 30 [Gary laughing]. I, you know, I just couldn't pick up another meteorite if -- if they beat me with a stick. You know, I was just so tired. But then, you know, that's -- that's something you can do down there that you can't do here. Host: Yeah, did you know the hours were going by, or did you have no sense of time with the -- with the sun being up? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, you know, you can trace the sun, if you pay attention, you can get a sense of the day, because the sun does a lazy loop in the sky, and... Host: Oh. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt:...and so, you know, once you've located yourself, you know where north, south is, [pause] there is still north and south, even that close to the pole. Host: Yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: But, you know, you know at midnight, the sun is going to be, you know -- you know, at one -- at the one position, so. Host: Right. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And it's kind of at the lowest point far north, and so, you know, you can track it that way, but basically I didn't pay attention. We were just so busy, you know, driving from place to place harvesting meteorites that, you know, it was just constantly moving, doing the next one, taking the data, collecting it, you know, cleanly and safely and getting it in the bag and moving on to the next location. Host: Oh, so are you -- are you not -- you're not stationary then when you -- when you kind of set up camp. Are you -- are you kind of mobile, like with your camp, and you just move it from one meteorite site? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: No, no. Host: Oh, okay. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: The camp is usually -- there are a couple -- there are a couple of ways that it is done. When we do systematic searching, the camp is stationary in one spot, perhaps for the whole field season, and you just go out, day-to-day, to different locations. And that's what we did here. We were on recon, so we -- we plunked the tent down, then we searched within easy skidoo range of the camp. Sometimes, and I've done this before, go down on a recon time, where -- where you go and you put camp down, you might prospect an area for two, three weeks, then you move camp to another area and prospect there for two or three weeks. So, there -- there are -- those -- there are those two types of scenarios, and even in the recon mode, you know, you're -- the tent -- the camp is stationary for two or three weeks, and you're skidooing all around that area to -- to search it, and then you only pick up tents and camp and move to a far distant area to recon that general region. Host: Alright! Alright, well I'm guessing, you know, going down there so many times, you're quite an expert in making sure that, you know, you can survive weeks and weeks and weeks in Antarctica. So, what are the -- some of the stuff that you're taking down there that I guess are unique to the Antarctic environment? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Okay, so, most of the gear you get, you get in Christchurch, so, you know, living in Houston, I don't have a winter coat. Host: Oh! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, at -- at the clothing distribution center in Christchurch, you'll get outkitted -- outfitted with, you know, heavy -- heavy jackets, all the gloves you can want, thermal pants, fleece liners, boots, hats, everything you need to survive, and then in McMurdo Station, you actually get the camping gear, the tents, the cook stoves, the dishes, the food, sleeping bags, that sort of stuff. So all -- all the intrepid Antarctic explorer needs to take down with them are personal items, like I mentioned my knit hat, that -- that was mine, and that was because I knew I wanted something to sleep in. I, you know, I bought extra pairs of thermal underwear, because the first time I went down, you know, they -- they give you two sets, but you're out in the field for six or seven weeks, so you want to change, you know, once in a while. [Gary laughing] Other than that, you know, my glasses are prescription, and so I buy glasses that transition dark and sunlight, so I can just, you know, wear my normal glasses out on the skidoo, I have actually bought glacier glasses, so I have side shields and whatnot to block the light. You want to -- one of the things that really is critical down there is to block all light from your eyeballs, you know, other than what gets filtered through a dark lens, because, otherwise, snow blindness is a problem. Host: Oh, that's right! It's so bright down there, right? Yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So I do that, but, otherwise, you know, most of the gear they give you, they loan it to you for the time that you're out there, and -- and so, you know, you could survive on just what you get from the Antarctic program down in Antarctica. It wouldn't necessarily be entirely comfortable wearing the same clothes, you know, for seven weeks, but you could do it. Host: [Laughing] So -- so your -- this Antarctic program, that -- that's ANSMET, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Right. Host: Okay, so what's the -- what's the relationship between ANSMET and NASA, and how that all works together? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, originally, ANSMET was set up as a three agency agreement. So the -- the -- it was funded -- the actual Antarctic search for meteorites was funded through the National Science Foundation, because they have -- they do the scientific research in Antarctica. NASA funded the curation and allocation of meteorite samples here at NASA Johnson Space Center, and then the Smithsonian Institution did the initial classification and was the long-term repository for the meteorites collected in Antarctica. That, since -- since then, they've changed it, and now NASA actually funds the Antarctic, the ANSMET research component. NSF still supplies the logistics, but NASA pays NSF for those, those logistics, because they -- they are the, I mean, they have all the logistics in Antarctica. And -- and the rocks still go, ultimately, to the Smithsonian, a chip for initial classification, and rocks that are no longer actively being researched by scientists in the world end up being permanently curated at the Smithsonian Institution. So that is -- that is still the way things are run. Host: Alright. So -- so is the ones that people are researching, and actively studying, are all of them housed here at the Johnson Space Center? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yes. With some exceptions. We don't have the necessary facilities to easily deal with metal-rich meteorites. So iron meteorites, stony iron meteorites, automatically go, ah, nope, I'm going to pull that back. Iron meteorites automatically go to the Smithsonian Institution. Because they are equipped for -- to cut metal and -- and make samples available. We do do the stony meteorites here, I forgot about that, because I've gotten some from here. So those that have a significant stony component are still worked on here until they become no longer of scientific interest. But, you know, even though they go to the Smithsonian for permanent curation, they're -- they're not dead to science, so to speak. So I can request samples that have been housed at Johnson Space Center for years, and now transfer -- transformed permanently to the Smithsonian if -- if I find, you know, an interesting project to do on one of these old samples. And I actually have gotten, in the past, some samples from the Smithsonian that were originally from the Antarctic collection. Host: Wow. So back in Antarctica, when you're looking at these meteorites and you're trying to, you know, figure out what they are, are they, you know, more stony, more metal-rich, what are you using to -- to look at them, to find out more about them and say, yes, that's a meteorite that I want to get my hands on? How do you know what's the good stuff? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Uh, decades of experience. Host: There you go [laughing]. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, I, you know, I can look at a rock in Antarctica, and I can already make a preliminary classification. Sometimes I'm wrong, and -- and, you know, the guy who has more experience than anyone is -- is our mountaineer field safety officer, John Scott, and, you know, he -- he can look at a rock, and, in many cases, give a pretty good guess as to what it's going to turn out to be. And, you know, I can do that with a lot of different types of rocks, especially those that I'm interested in, but all in all, there -- there are always those meteorites that come back that either no one has ever seen before, because it's totally new, or it's enough different from the norm for that class that it just doesn't -- doesn't appear to be what you think it is, in hand sample. So, and we don't -- and we don't, you know, in Antarctica, we don't do anymore than a very high-level classification. Yes, this is a stony meteorite, it's probably a chondrite, this is probably a carbonaceous chondrite, this is probably an achondrite, which is a type of meteorite that's been melted. This is probably a stony iron, an iron, and so forth. And, to some extent, we need to do that because certain types of meteorites have more scientific value than others. So -- so, for example, a very primitive carbonaceous chondrite is -- is probably going to get a lot of research attention when it's announced. And so we collect those in a special way to try and minimize contamination by organic compounds. And that's why we need to be able to say, oh, yeah, you know, stand back from this guy, we need to treat him differently than -- than this one over here. Host: Alright. And then, obviously, you know, knowing where to ship it too, right? Because some of the metals one have to go the Smithsonian...? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So that -- no, that's all done here. Everything is shipped here to Johnson Space Center. Host: Oh, everything comes here, okay. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And -- but the difference is when they -- when they open some that are listed in the -- in the notes as probably being iron meteorites, they -- they will warm them up in the dry nitrogen cabinets, look at them, and if they agree, you know, they'll do an external description, you know, this is a brown rock, you know, 10 centimeters in size and weigh so much, and we don't see anything in it, you know, out of the ordinary, from the outside, then the whole thing will -- then that whole rock will get shipped to the Smithsonian at that point, and there, they'll cut it open with a wire saw, if it's, you know, indeed, probably metal, and then make a polished mount and etch it to bring out the texture and so forth. Host: Alright! And then that's what you mean by the facilities, right? They have the -- the proper facilities to do that. So what about here? What kinds of equipment and facilities do we have to make sure that we're handling all of this properly? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, in the meteorite processing lab, we have [pause] -- we use tools of a very limited set of composition. So, typically, stainless steel hammers and chisels, and -- and the reason is, you know, no matter what we do with a rock from space, we're going to contaminate with something from earth. So the object is to, one, minimize that contamination. So we use materials that we know are not going to, you know, just shed particles everywhere, for example, but also if we -- we use always the tools of the same -- of a given composition so that we know that if we see something like this in the rock, oh yeah, that must have come from the tool. And, you know, I've seen this, rocks are hard to break, and so, you know, your -- your choices are to saw them open or to use a hammer and chisel, and I have seen on a rock that I've gotten, a flake from the chisel that rubbed off. Metal, you know, it's soft, even hardened steel will rub off on occasion. So, you know, I can see this, I can pull that contaminant off or isolate it, in the lab, but, you know, I know then I can do a simple test, yes, that's from the chisel, I don't have to worry about that. I've taken care of it, the rest of the sample is fine. So the object is to minimize contamination or to know what the potential contaminants are. And, you know, there's no way you know of getting -- there's -- with modern technology, we can't, you know, we don't have magnetic levitation devices that we then use a laser to slice them open cleanly. You know, we -- we do with what we got. This isn't Star Trek here yet. Host: [Laughing] We'll just stick with the hammer and chisel for now. So, I mean, when you're cutting these open, and you open them up, what -- what are you looking at? Are you looking at just the rock or are you taking even smaller chunks of that? How is that working? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, that all depends on the question that you're trying to answer, and I've done both where I've asked for samples of a, what's called a bulk sample of the rock, so something as representative of the entire rock as possible, and I've looked for individual class in the rock, little fragments that are of a specific type within the rock. All of this is basic 19th century geology, in many respects. You know, in the 19th century, geologists would go out in the field with their hammers, they'd -- they'd beat on a rock and use a hands lens to look at the microscopic, yeah, microscopic texture, mineralogy in it, and, you know, a trained geologist can do the same with a meteorite, and say, yeah, okay, I can see -- I can see what this is, it's a certain type of rock type in there, and that's what I want, I don't want this part over here. So, you know, the traditional geologic methods,but with modern equipment, can be used, and -- and, you know, there's -- there's nothing like the human eye in the brain for sorting out who's who in the zoo. Host: [Laughing] So then how can you -- what -- what are some of the key differences for the -- for the non-geologically-trained eye for whenever you're looking at a rock and you can, you know, you cut it open and you look and you say, that's a meteorite, that's not from earth? Or, this is definitely from earth? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Okay, the -- the first key is -- - is fusion crust. I mentioned this earlier. Host: Oh yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And that -- that's where, going through the atmosphere, friction with the air causes the outer surface to melt, and actually, you know, little bits are flying off all the time, the meteorite we get on the surface is just a small piece of what entered the atmosphere. Most -- sometimes the vast majority of it just ablated away in the atmosphere into little droplets or dust. Host: Wow. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, you know, if you see a fusion crust on the rock, right away, you know it's -- it's a meteorite, you don't have to go any farther than that. In terms of determining what type it is, more primitive meteorites, these are a type that still have textures and mineralogy that were inherited from condensation and accretion in the solar nebula, that's where individual mineral grains formed out of a gas that -- that was the nebula before the planets were around. And -- and then they glomerate together, these mineral grains, and in the -- in the solar nebula, the dust grains banged, you know, got melted into little, tiny objects which we call chondrules. So, these typical textures are plainly evident to the human eye, even without a microscope. But, you know, with a very low-power microscope you can see them quite easily. Most meteorites, especially primitive ones, contain iron metal, it's actually iron nickel metal. You know, you don't find that on earth except when humans have been involved in -- in smelting iron ore. But so iron metal in a -- in a rock is kind of an indicator that it's quite likely from outer space. Very few occurrences on earth of native metal in a rock. And then, as I said, in the dust in the solar nebula, went through periods of melting and formation of these little, round globules of basically melt globules, which we call chondrules, and -- and from that, we get the name chondrite for these primitive rocks. Well, those stand out in, you know, if you break open a rock, depending on -- on the type, you know, you can see those quite easily, and -- and that's a key. Host: And these have never -- they've been in space for all of time, right? They were formed in space and traveling through space, they've never -- they're not like from another planet or another, like, chipped off another...? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, most...no, actually, all meteorites, the only way we get meteorites is for bad things to happen in the asteroid belt. Most meteorites are from asteroids, and when they collide, little fragments get knocked off, and it's -- it's from these fragments that we get meteorites. So they were originally on much larger bodies, I mean, much larger meaning asteroid size, not planet size. Host: Okay. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And they were broken up and then distributed to the earth. You know, one of the, sorry, I'm going to -- I'm going to sort of go back into -- and get into my way back machine and go back to when I was a grad student. Host: Please do! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: When I -- you know, when I first started learning about meteorites, one of the mysteries at the time was there was a group of chondrite meteorites called the L chondrites, L was just the name, you know, the -- the name applied to them. That had ages on the order of 500 million years, and this was really odd, because all meteorites are about four and a half billion years old. Well these, they -- they -- these meteorites were originally about four and a half million -- billion years old, but were somehow affected by an event that reset the ages about 500 million years ago. Host: Woah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And so, you know, this was, you know, just kind of an anomaly. We knew something bad had happened to an asteroid then, about that time, well, fast forward to, I think the 90's, a Swedish geologist started finding in terrestrial sediments fossil meteorites. And, you know, all that's left is a few mineral grains. You -- you can tell, they were found in fine grain limestone, you know, formed on an ocean floor, and all that you could see was this halo of odd stuff, please a few mineral grains that remained from the original meteorite. Well, you know, this guy, and his compadres, studied these mineral grains and they -- they found out they were from the same type of meteorite as these chondrites that were about 500 million years old, and they were in layers in the rock of the earth that were about that age. So, sometime, 500 million years ago, you know, a couple of asteroids collided, and a whole rain of meteorites of this type hit the earth at about, you know, within a few million years when that occurred, and we can find them now. This layer in Sweden that's just chock full of these fossil meteorites. And, you know, to me, that's one of these really neat kind of science stories. Where everything starts tying together. And then to get even further, astronomers looking at what they call asteroid families, so they -- they find an asteroid, they find a whole bunch in orbits similar to it, spectroscopically, they all look to be about the same, and so they -- they figure out, well, these are all, you know, fragments of something that broke apart. Well, they found an asteroid that they figure, you know, based on the spectroscopy, it could be this type of, you know, that formed these L chondrites, and the -- they calculate the age of the family based on dispersion of the fragments, and it's about 500 million years. So, you know, between, you know, meteorite scientists, terrestrial geologists, and astronomers, we -- we've kind of got a neat picture of somehow, you know, about the time of dawn of -- of multicellular life on earth, two asteroids smashed together, and rained down on the earth, and we're still finding fragments coming down to earth now that we can confidently date when this happened in terrestrial laboratories. It's just kind of one of these things that, you know, I find fascinating! Host: [Laughing] I find it -- I mean, a lot of this is over my head, because I don't have the same background as you, but I just find it fascinating that you can look at these rocks and -- and get a story, get a story out of it, you know? Like the story of two asteroids around the time that cellular life was developing coming down to earth and raining down in these locations and telling their story, that's fantastic! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, and multicellular. So this is when... Host: Multicellular. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: This is when, you know, fossils, shortly after the time when fossils started becoming really abundant in the terrestrial record. Host: Wow. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, yeah, it's just a neat story, and, you know, basically I think that's what got me into geology, originally, was, you know, all you've got is -- is a rock on the surface and somehow you can, you know, if you're smart enough and -- and do the right work, you can start to piece together an entire story of what the earth was like at that time, and so, you know, that's kind of what drew me into geology. Host: That's fantastic. I love it! Especially from -- from my background, marketing and journalistic sort of background, the story telling aspect is just fascinating to me. And that's kind of like, that, you know, the title of this episode is going to be, Infamous Meteorites, and that's kind of like what I really wanted to dive into is, you know, we've talked about where you're finding these meteorites, and then what you're doing with then, you're actually cracking them open and studying them, but then what are you finding? What are you finding inside of these meteorites? What stories? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah. Well, exactly! Host: Yeah, so, you know, one of the ones that I know that was brought to my attention was one of them called Allan Hills, and -- I'm going to -- is it 84001, or do you call it by something else? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: No, I call it that. Host: 84001? Okay. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Sometimes it's simply referred to as that rock. Host: [Laughing] Because it's that infamous, huh? Wow! Alright, so what's the story behind -- behind this rock? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Okay, so, this came -- this was found in Antarctica in 1984. And it -- it's [pause] -- it was originally classified as a -- as a type of asteroidal igneous rock that I, at the time, I was studying those -- those types of rocks. You know, my -- my background is heavily-weighted towards an interest in magnetic processes on the earth, the moon, Mars, and asteroids, and -- and so that's why this one was particularly of interest to me. So, I was studying that, along with a bunch of others, that were thought to be basically the same classification of rock, and, unfortunately, Allan Hill's had some puzzling features in it that were -- were a little bit off normal for -- for that rock type. But not so much so that I -- I really stayed up at night worrying about it. Host: [Gary laughing] Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And so I wrote a paper on -- on this group of rocks, finally, and sent it in, and one of the reviewers said, well, you know, you point out that there's this anomaly in this rock, and you really ought to try and chase down why it's -- what's going on there, why it's different. And, you know, being a -- a moderately good scientist, I said, okay. I, you know, he has pointed out, it's a problem, I knew it was a problem, but now I've really got to do something about it. So I started working at it, and, honestly, I -- I could not find out what was wrong with this particular rock. It -- it -- there was one mineral phase in it just did not match what anyone would expect for the class. Quite by chance, I got another sample of that rock for another reason. And but it really wasn't the sample I had asked for. So there was as mixup in the thin section. So a thin section is a very thin slice of a rock, it's about 30 microns thick, doubly polished on both sides, and it's used by people who look through microscopes to look at the minerals and textures in a rock, and then you can put that section into an electron microprobe and actually do analyses of the mineral phases in it. Host: Wow. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And so I was -- that's what I was interested in. And this particular rock, which I thought I had, I was interested in the composition of sulfide phases in the rock. So I put the sample in the electron microprobe without actually looking at it in the microscope first, because I had seen this rock before, I knew what it was like, I knew what to expect, I just went straight to the electron microprobe, which actually probably was good because I may have turned the rock in and asked for a different one otherwise. But I'm getting -- I'm looking at it in the microprobe, looking for the mineral phases I'm looking for, and they just really aren't there in the abundance that I expected. Finally I found a grain and I'm -- I'm banging at it with the electron beam, collecting compositions, and the compositions weren't making sense. I was expecting it to be, so I was looking for sulfide phases, so I was expecting to have iron monosulfide, so one iron, one sulfur atom, and the composition that was coming out just was not right. And I checked the calibration, the calibration was perfect, so what's going on? I was looking at the data, not in atoms, but in mass, so weight percent. So when I converted it to atoms, I realized I had two sulfur atoms for every iron atom instead of one, and that's when it hit me what was wrong with this rock. I then backed off, looked at the -- looked at the texture in more detail in the electron microprobe, and realized I had a sample of Allan Hill's, not the meteorite that I thought I had, and I knew which type of rocks had pyrate, the iron disulfide, instead of the iron monosulfide, and I knew those were martian rocks. And so, you know, it was -- it was probably the most satisfying moment I've ever had in my life, excluding when my children were born, and -- and when I got married [Gary laughing], and if my wife listens to this, I hope she hears that, was, you know, suddenly it dawned on me that this was a martian rock that was totally unlike any other martian rock, except the key minerals were in it, and so, you know, it was just one of these aha moments that -- that you live for. And, you know, it was just so much fun. Host: Amazing. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: I tell you. Host: So what were those -- the key minerals? What -- what story did they tell? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So the key was because it had the iron disulfide pyrate instead of the iron monosulfide troite, I knew it was martian, and it was a rock type not known amongst the martian meteorites. So what it meant was we had a new type of martian rock that was going to tell us even more about the geologic evolution of Mars then we already knew. And, you know, all of this hit me within like a fraction of a second when I realized what it was. Host: Wow! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, I mean, I immediately recognized it, it was an, you know, important meteorite. And that it would tell us big things, and, in fact, you know, it has opened up a whole host of, you know, basically this rock ultimately became a founding member of what you might consider astrobiology, and that came when my colleagues here at Johnson Space Center, Dave McKay, Edward Gibson, and Kathie Thomas and now Simon Clemett is at it, and then there were Simon's dissertation advisors, Stanford was on the paper and several other people, you know, they -- they proposed that a certain both mineralogical and compositional and textural objects in this rock were possibly signs of microscopic life that existed on Mars at one point. Host: Wow. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And, you know, to some extent, then this really allowed the whole discipline of astrobiology to blossom because suddenly we had to figure out, you know, what -- how do we understand, how can we possibly search for life and other objects, other planets, you know, what do we need to look for? Because we're used to looking for life on earth, you know, it's -- it's simple. Just walking over here, I, you know, I had to wait while an opossum walked past me in front of, on the walkway. You know, life is everywhere on earth, whereas on Mars, you know, maybe it's not everywhere, and if it was there, how are we going to tell that it was there? What -- what do we need to do? So I would say the import of Allan Hill's not so much that it was hypothesized that life -- fossils of life are in that rock, but that it caused scientists to really take a much more rigorous look at how they will search for life other places of the universe. Host: Wow. And that's -- that's kind of, you know, like you said, the birth, maybe not the birth, but really the blossoming, and that was the word you used of, of astrobiology, life forming outside of earth. That's just a wild concept. How is that even possible? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, and, you know, the other thing is it did, it was a strong impetus to driving NASA's Mars exploration program, you know, it is -- - a lot of it is geared towards finding evidence for habitability locations on Mars, and, ultimately, you know, from locations where we think there may have been a chance for life, you know, bringing back or -- or studying in situ samples for possible evidence of microbial or -- or larger life on Mars. Host: Yeah, and you said you were, before we started recording, you said you actually were working with Opportunity too, one of the rovers on Mars. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah. I, in 2005, I got attached to the Mars Exploration Rover mission. At the time, we had two rovers going, one Spirit in Gusev Crater, and the other, Opportunity, in Meridiani Planum. Subsequently, Spirit froze to death one winter. Basically, so Spirit lost mobility of one of its wheels, so we were driving backwards, dragging one of the front wheels like a boat anchor through the soil... Host: Oh, man. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And we, you know, the Rover drivers and scientists are very careful. We drove over an area that looked like it was going to be solid, trafficable ground, but it turned out there was a basically a hardpan; layer on top of soil hardpan is kind of an indurated layer that's a little bit stiffer, so it didn't look like it was, you know, loose sand, but it turns out we broke through and got mired in a deep sandpit, basically, and we were unable to extract the rover from the sand, in spite of heroic efforts by the engineers, the Rover drivers at JPL, and the solar panel was tilted at a bad angle for, you know, the oncoming winter sun. So when the sun started getting lower and lower, relative to the tile of the -- of the solar panel, we -- we simply were not getting enough power to keep the rover going and although we tried to contact it again after that winter, we never heard from it again, so it basically just froze to death on Mars. Host: Oh, man, but is Opportunity its twin? Is it the... Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yep, Opportunity is it's twin. Host: And that one's still going, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And that one's still going. We're now so -- we're not -- what day is today? Host: The 8th. Yeah, we're now about two weeks away from the anniversary, the 16the anniversary of landing on Mars for Opportunity. Host: 14 years? Wow! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: It's still going strong, and we are still actively exploring the geology of Meridiani Planum. We don't have all the instruments we had when we landed, but we're still making great scientific discoveries, even with the limited rover ability. Host: How about that? So how is -- how was, you know, working with a rover on Mars different from looking at meteorites? Maybe even martian meteorites, like the Allan Hills, here on earth? How is that different? Well, so, you know, here on earth, I have the luxury of taking a sample into the lab and -- and using state-of-the-art scientific equipment to -- to tease out, tease out its story. On Mars, we have cameras that we can use to image the terrain. So right away, textures, and we have a microscopic camera, so textures allow us to, you know, make inferences about what the rock -- how the rock might have been formed. We have a camera with 13 color filters on it, so we can do some limited spectroscopy of the rock that helps us compare a limited set of mineralogical variations in the rocks, and then we have the alpha particle x-ray spectrometer, which allows us to do bulk compositions of surfaces. So, between them, we -- we can -- we can get a fairly good handle of the mineral -- well, mostly the textures and bulk composition, and, to some extent, neurology of a rock, and that helps us understand what processes might have formed the rock altogether. And, you know, to some extent, where Opportunity is a high-tech version of a 19th century terrestrial geologist. [Gary laughing] But, you know, the, obviously the spectrometer is better than what they had in the 19th century, and the chemical composition is as -- as good as we could do then and actually better for many elements, but we're still not at the cutting edge, as you -- as you could do if you had a, you know, a mobile laboratory up on Mars. Host: Yeah, definitely. And that's kind of your -- your trade-off, right? Is like, here, you know, you can bring into a lab with all the latest equipment and -- and study these meteorites, but, like you said before, like there's a certain amount of contamination that's going on with just the fact that a meteorite has come through the atmosphere and hit the -- hit the -- surface of the earth, you know, you have to deal with that, but then you have limited instruments right there on -- on Mars. So, I guess you just kind of have these tradeoffs [laughing]. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yep. Host: So another one that you mentioned, another infamous meteorite, was one called Orgueil, and that's one -- that one's much earlier than the Allan Hills one, right? Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So Orgueil fell in France in 1864, if I -- if I remember right, and what's key here is it's a -- it's a very primitive type of meteorite. It's a carbonaceous chondrite. The -- the two letter name for it is a CI carbonate -- chondrite. These are amongst the most primitive materials, primitive meteorites that we have for study. They're bulk compositions, basically are identical to what we see for the photosphere of the sun, excluding the most volatile elements like -- like helium, hydrogen, and oxygen and so forth, but if you could take the sun, you know, a cubic kilometer of the sun and condense out all the condensable matter, it would -- the composition would be very much like a carbonaceous, CI carbonaceous chondrite. So, these have always been the touchstone for understanding the chemical evolution of the solar system. They are our -- our basis for seeing who has varied from the original composition. But they're highly-altered, so they are almost completely made up of clays and other low-temperature alteration phases. So the original high-temperature phases have been replaced. So, at some point, these things were altered by water in their parent asteroid to the point where all that's left is -- is basically clay. This makes them [sigh] -- this made Orgueil susceptible to nefarious individual, tempting to prove something, what don't know, because we don't know who that individual was, but, you know, I would call Orgueil the Piltdown Man of meteorites. So Piltdown Man was -- was this fake fossil made in about 1912 I think to look like it had some of the attributes of an ape, but some of the attributes of a modern human, because someone that that's the way human evolution went, and they wanted to show that we had fossils that fit in within that theory. Well, Orgueil, at some point, was broken open, and it turns out, because this is clay, you can -- if you get it good and wet, you can kind of break it open like clay, and then they had stuffed in terrestrial seeds and plant fragments and coal, and then put it back together, and coated the outside with glue to make it look like it still had the fusion crust on it. Host: Oh my gosh! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And then this sample was sealed in a bell jar in a museum from 1864, so apparently it happened very early, we don't know who did it, or why, you know, what were they trying to accomplish by this? Because it was going to be sealed in a bell jar, you know, did they think someone was going to then take it out and look at it, I don't know, but this -- this came to light in 1960's then. Host: Oh! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And so, a well-known meteoriticist, by the name of Ed Anders, very famous, very smart man, he led a study that was published 100 years later, in 1964 in science, where he uncovered, you know, all of this forensic meteoritic work where he showed that, you know, the seeds were, you know, terrestrial seeds, the coal fragments were in there, that glue had been used to put it back together and make it look like it was whole, and -- and all of this, and -- and so that's why, you know, this is an infamous -- infamous meteorite for those who are in the know. Most people won't have heard of it, but, you know, like I said, it's kind of the Piltdown Man of meteoritics. Host: Wow! Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So someone had an agenda, they wanted -- they, for some reason, they wanted to show that life could form on an asteroid or -- or in space, or something, I don't know, but, obviously, they had -- they had some agenda when they did this. Host: Yeah, I know, but seeds and glue are not really a good way to convince people [laughter]. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: No. You know, back in the, you know, mid-19th century, you know, had it been opened up and studied then, maybe it would have caused quite a furor, but, as far as I know, this was only discovered in, you know, a century later. Host: Wow! A hundred years of people thinking this is some kind of like capsule of extraterrestrial life, how about that? So, you know, all of these kind of tell a story and, unfortunately, some of them, this [laughing] -- this particular one is a little bit of a lie, but, you know, we are cracking these open to search for evidence of -- of whatever we can find, right? Maybe -- maybe the formation of a planet, maybe the formation of solar system, maybe the formation of life. So, you know, what, in a perfect world, I guess, what would you like to do -- what would you like to study? What would you like to see and do to really maximize what you can find about learning more about our solar system and about life in the universe Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Well, I mean, that -- that's kind of a difficult question for a scientist to answer, because, you know, truth be told, we're all paid to pursue our hobbies, and so we all have our own hobby horses. So, as I -- as I mentioned, you know, my particular interests are in igneous processes, I, you know, on the earth, moon, Mars, asteroids, I -- I like magmatic rocks, and, you know, I couldn't tell you why, it's just the way I am [Gary laughing]. So, one of the things -- one of the things that's very curious about asteroidal igneous rocks is that asteroids were melted very early in the solar system, probably within a couple million years of the formation of the earliest-known solids in the solar system. So something had to heat up relatively small objects, maybe a few hundred kilometers, you know, 200 miles in -- or in radius, something like that, to the point where they were melted and then cooled down and then they completely shut off after that. So, it was a very, very intense heat source that acted early, died out, and then never came back. You know, we think we know what -- what caused this, but there, you know, and so the -- the leading contender is radioactive heating by a very short-lived isotope of aluminum. It has a half-life of about 730 million years, and so, and aluminum is a -- is a major element in rocks, so, if you -- if you accumulate an asteroid early enough, when there's this aluminum-27 still alive, you've, you know, -- you've then encapsulated a very potent heat source inside that rock. And so that's what we think happened, but, still, you know, we can admit, as scientists, we can imagine this process going on, but geology is always much more complicated than our imaginations. So there are things that I don't understand, things that, as far as I know, no one really understands about how asteroids went from being primitive objects that accumulated from minerals formed in the solar nebula to basically a molten ball that then crystallized out igneous magmatic rocks, similar to what we see on earth. I would desperately like to get, you know, be able to find out more about how -- what was going on, you know, what have we missed, because we, you know, we tend to think of things in -- in the simplest terms, you know, it was heated up, melted, crystallized, that's it, well, we know that -- that's not all the story. Host: Yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And I think all meteoriticists have, in the back of their minds, for their particular hobby horses, just things they don't quite understand. They know the -- the broader picture, but what are the finer details that went into -- to this. We -- we know we've got the basic story, but what are, you know, all the chapter and verse that go into this basic story? Host: Wow. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: So, you know, that's what drives me, and it's all -- it's all a matter of, you know, learning something new that -- that, you know, pushes forth human knowledge. You know, what I do is -- is nowhere near applied science. It's pure basic science. So I can't -- I can't talk to someone and say, you know, tomorrow, you're going to be able to have a better life because of what I do, only if, you know, unless you think a better life means knowing more [Gary laughing]. But you never know, because, in -- in general, a large fraction of basic research ultimately does find an application. Right now, I don't know what that application might be, but I won't say there's never going to be some application for what I do, but, for me, it's -- it's this sense of learning something that -- that drives me. Host: Yeah. Why learn if you don't think it's going to end up, you know, giving you a better life. I mean, honestly, like, you know, learning things kind of helps you understand things, helps things come together, to me, that makes me pretty happy. So I could see that, you know, better understanding, giving me a better life. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, well, I mean, you know, humans have always been curious, and, you know, I suspect the reason we're curious is because it's beneficial for survival, because, you know, when -- when you're out on the savannah hunting lions, or hunting gazelles, if you see something moving the weeds over there, you know, okay, is that a gazelle or is that a lion about to eat me instead? So, you know, humans are geared to being curious about their environment, because it's a survival mechanism. Host: Yeah. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: And, for scientists, we have now transposed that, you know, away from worrying about whether we're going to be eaten to just, you know, a broad knowledge in general. Host: [Laughing] Well, I think last time we sat down with Dr. Burton, he said, he kept talking about this time machine, how easy it would be -- how nice it would be to just kind of hop in a time machine, watch these processes take place, and be like, ah [snapping fingers], that's how -- that's how it takes place. I mean, and then there's whole philosophical idea of, well, is that going to alter the universe if you go back in time and watch these things? So, you know, that was another tangient we could have gone on and we didn't, but [laughter], but it would be nice to, you know, for the, you know, to improve our knowledge a little bit of how all this stuff works and comes together. Alright, so, Duck, I think -- I think that about wraps it up for today. So, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and kind of... Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: It's been a pleasure. I hope I've imparted something that makes sense to the listeners and -- and that they will find interesting. Host: It's actually you know, you know, we're talking about rocks, if you think about it, but it's absolutely fascinating, what you can found and the stories behind these rocks and what they tell you about the universe, and even just your trips to Antarctica are pretty fascinating as well, so, again, thanks so much for coming on and telling the stories of these beautiful rocks and your trips to Antarctica, and, yeah, hopefully we'll -- we'll find some cool evidence of life or, you know, you'll find that key ingredient as to why, you know, the asteroids did what they did. Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt: Yeah, well, I hope so, and thank you very much for the invite! Host: Absolutely. [ Music & Radio Transmissions ] Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, today, we talked with Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt about some of the cooler, infamous meteorites that have been discovered throughout the years, and then some interesting stories about Antarctica and how he's finding them, it's really a cool process, and he works with the ANSMET, it's the Antarctic Search for Meteorites. So if you want to learn more about ANSMET and some of the adventures that are going on in Antarctica, and some of the curious findings in these meteorites, especially some that may or may not be life, it turns out there was some, you know, fake meteorites at the end of there, which is kind of disappointing, but that's okay. You can go to ares.jsc.nasa.gov to get the full scoop on all of these cool meteorites, and -- and you can learn how to get your hands on one of these meteorite samples to study them. If you go to social media on the NASA Johnson Space Center accounts, or if you go to ARES, or astromaterials, NASA astromaterials, we got pages on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram where we like to share these stories, just use the hashtag, ask NASA, on -- on your favorite platform to submit an idea, or if you have a question about meteorites, or if you want to submit a new topic for the show, to make sure to mention it's for, Houston, We Have A Podcast. So this podcast was recorded on January 8th, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Greg Wiseman, Tracy Calhoun, and Jenny Knots, and thanks again to Dr. Duck Mittlefehldt for coming on the show! We'll be back next week!

hwhap_Ep20_ Special Delivery

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-11-22

Gary Jordan: Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 20, Special Delivery. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your cohost today, along with Matt Buffington, director of public affairs at NASA's Ames Research Center in California, and the host of NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast. Matt, what's up? Matthew Buffington: Hey Gary, we're doing great, so glad we could team up on this. This is also concurrently episode 69 for the NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast. There's a ton of overlap between our listeners, so I'm really glad we were able to make this happen. Gary Jordan: Yeah, me too. Today is a very special episode, because we're teaming up with NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast to talk about some of the things we can find in a cargo vehicle when it's shipped to space, which is perfect because SpaceX will be sending its Dragon Cargo Vehicle to the International Space Station here soon. So, who do we have from Ames, Matt? Matthew Buffington: Over here we're bringing in Dennis Leveson-Gower. He's a project scientist here over at Ames, and has tons of experience working on cargo, working on payloads, and sending them on up to the space station. How about over there in Houston? Gary Jordan: We'll have Shane Kimbrough. He's a NASA astronaut who recently spent about six months on the space station and landed earlier this year. We've actually had him on the podcast to talk about his landing experience back in episode three. But while he was up there, he had quite a few cargo vehicles visit the station. He had the SpaceX Dragon, Orbital ATK Cygnus, Japanese HTV, and the Russian Progress all within his six-month stay aboard the station. So, it's fair to say he knows what cargo on station is all about. He performed hundreds of experiments with the science that was delivered on some of those vehicles, and even got some fresh food, so I'm excited to ask him about that experience. Matthew Buffington: Awesome. I'm really excited to get the different perspective on both the science, on the space station, so we can see the astronaut's point of view, and the people who actually design those experiments. Gary Jordan: Yeah, this is going to be a good episode. So, with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Shane Kimbrough and Dennis Leveson-Gower. Enjoy. Okay, all right, it looks like we're all connected, ready to go. How about this, Houston We Have a Podcast and NASA Silicon Valley combined? Matthew Buffington: Yeah, this is going to be sweet. Gary Jordan: Sweet, I know, I'm pumped. And we're doing this remotely, so here in Houston, I'm in the studio with NASA astronaut and no stranger to Houston We Have a Podcast, Shane Kimbrough. Shane, thanks for being here. Shane Kimbrough: Hey, great to be here. Gary Jordan: Cool, and how about over at Ames, Matt, who do you have? Matthew Buffington: I'm sitting over here with my buddy Dennis Leveson-Gower. We actually go way back from SpaceX 8, was it Dennis? Dennis Leveson-Gower: That's right. Matthew Buffington: I always remember it because it was the first time SpaceX had launched a rocket and landed it on a barge. And Dennis was nice enough as I drove him back and forth from his office to do press interviews and stuff. Gary Jordan: Nice enough indeed. Matthew Buffington: Exactly so, I always like to start our podcast with the question of, how did you get to NASA, how did you end up in Silicon Valley. I definitely want to hear about that from Shane as well, but let's start off with Dennis. So tell us about, how did you end up at NASA? Dennis Leveson-Gower: I really ended up here by accident. I was set to be a professor, discover things, have graduate students. I did a Ph.D. in biochemistry. Then I went to Stanford for a post-doctoral fellow doing bone marrow transplantation, graft vs. host disease, immunology. And slowly over the years, I thought, I'm going to go to industry. I'm not going to do the academic track anymore. It was a slow evolution. So I was out there, had my resume posted on job sites and stuff, looking around. Just got an email saying, are you interested in a position at NASA Ames? And I'm like, this is spam. I don't know anything about rockets, I'm not an engineer. I'm a biologist. So, talked to my wife. She's like, you have to apply, it's NASA. So I thought, all right, at least I can go and see the base and look around, because I saw it on the side of the highway, so I knew there was some NASA thing here. And yeah, it was when I talked to the hiring manager, she really convinced me this was a really cool opportunity. Got me into a different head space of not just doing basic research, but doing applied research, and working with a whole different cadre of engineers and operations and safety. And I don't know, it just really appealed to me, so I took a chance and took the job. Matthew Buffington: That's pretty awesome. I always say, when people think of NASA, they think of rockets and telescopes. Biology is a huge part of that. Speaking of that, sometimes we have humans up in space. Gary Jordan: Excellent segue. All right, Shane, how about you? How did you become an astronaut? Shane Kimbrough: I came -- there's several obviously avenues to be an astronaut. I came through the military. I was an Army officer, Apache pilot my whole Army career. I took a little detour toward the end of I would say my conventional Army career when I went to graduate school at Georgia Tech, and then I went to teach math at West Point for a few years. And then from there, I was called to come work down at Johnson Space Center for a few years. I had applied to be an astronaut that year, didn't get selected. But the good news was, I was I guess somewhat in the highly qualified category, so the Army detachment down here asked me to come down here and work for a few years. And that was to really get ready for the 2002 astronaut selection. Guess what, that selection never happened. So, we went through the whole thing, interviews and everything, and it never happened. Congress decided they didn't need a class that year. So, we hung around for another couple years, which in a way was somewhat rolling the dice on my Army career. But my wife and I felt it was where we wanted to be and what we wanted to do, so stuck around, and was lucky enough to get selected in 2004. Gary Jordan: Lucky and persistent enough. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, persistence is a big trait, I think. It was my fourth time to apply. Matthew Buffington: I was going to say, isn't that normal for astronauts? Because we had Steve Smith a while back on our podcast, and I think he had applied three or four times as well. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, I think at least it used to be the norm. A lot of times these days, at least in the last couple classes, we've had a lot of first-timers. But yeah, for folks a little older like myself, I think three or four times is pretty normal. Gary Jordan: I remember talking with the 2017 class, and a couple of them applied multiple times. I know for sure Raja Chari did, but you're right, a couple of them are first-timers. But then you've got folks like Clay Anderson, who applied like, what, eight or nine times or something? So yeah, right. Shane Kimbrough: Persistence. Gary Jordan: Exactly, persistence, and it works out too. This is perfect, to combine forces for the podcast today -- Houston We Have a Podcast and NASA in Silicon Valley -- because today's topic is cargo, and cargo going to the International Space Station. And Shane, I feel like you're the perfect person to have on the podcast today, because you've seen your fair share of cargo vehicles on your last mission, right? Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, we saw everything, and we saw Cygnus twice. We had a lot of vehicles coming and going. And really cargo, when you think about it, it's the way we handle the logistics problem on the space station. It's a big logistics problem, if you think about it, to get equipment and clothes and food and experiments to that orbiting laboratory. So, how do we do that? We used to do it with the space shuttle. It was nice and easy, it could haul a bunch of stuff. Now, we can't do that, so we have these cargo vehicles you're talking about. Gary Jordan: That's right, because on your way to the space station, you can bring stuff, but now you need stuff delivered. It's a huge complex. It's the size of a five-bedroom house, it needs stuff -- food, supplies, all that kind of things. Matthew Buffington: That's one of the funny things as we were coming in, especially as we're getting closer for the SpaceX 13 launch coming into it. We see there's the both sides -- there's the people up at the space station working on receiving the cargo or even science experiments, but also on the flipside of, how do you get that stuff prepared? That is a feat in and of itself. Gary Jordan: That's true. So Dennis, what do you have to do to prepare stuff to go on cargo missions? Dennis Leveson-Gower: That's a big question, because I mean, it really starts one to two years ahead of the launch, if you think about it, or more, because after you have an experiment defined, you've got to prepare exactly what the science requirements are, then you've got to start making a plan, then you've got to start assessing what the hardware needs are, and the kits' needs are, then you have to design those, then they have to get through safety, you have to plan operations, you have to plan how everything's going to be labelled. And then, usually I think somewhere between three and six months before a launch is when we're going to actually have things prepared, off-gassed, tested, H-fit, label committee, all those things, and do the early load. And then we start preparing the late load chemicals and perishables that have to be loaded 25 hours before launch. And we do that out at Kennedy Space Center for SpaceX launch, anyways. So, there's a whole experiment development cycle that happens, and that's just for one payload. And if we have five or six payloads from Ames coming out, that's a lot of work from a lot of people to send a box of something. Matthew Buffington: It takes a village for it, gathering all that stuff up. But I'm always curious on your guys' side, Shane, for you guys, when you receive this cargo, how exactly does that happen, or how does that work? Like, you're unpacking a trunk from a trip? Shane Kimbrough: No, we're always excited to open up the hatch and get new stuff. It's kind of like Christmas every time we get one of these vehicles up there. But the way we go about unpacking is very organized, and it has to be that way. We have a great team on the ground that gets us ready and prepared with all kind of documents, and keeps us organized with charts and things on how they want it to be unpacked. And so, we follow that religiously. We'll have somebody in the crew is going to be called the loadmaster, and that person's responsible for that vehicle. If we just start pulling things out and stowing things where we want to stow them, that's not the way it's going to be, because we'll never find that stuff. We really have to be disciplined, and put things where they're supposed to go. A lot of times, that means we'll take one bag out, and the bag will have 100 different items in it. And we have to go put those 100 things somewhere. So, it's not as easy as pulling a bag out and stuffing it somewhere. Sometimes it is, but most of the time it's not. So, we've really got to make sure we're all helping each other out. And it's always better to, as I've found with all these cargo ops, to do it as a team versus doing it individually. You're much more efficient, and you can have one person reading the book, keeping control of everything, and the other couple people running things around. And that really worked well for us. Gary Jordan: So, everything has an order and a destination, right? You've got to unload this first, and put it in this location, and it's all scheduled that way. How long does it take you to unload completely? Shane Kimbrough: I think we actually set some records for unloading vehicles the quickest, which is a good thing I guess. But, we really -- and we did it by working together as a team. And that's the only way. Thomas [Pesquet] and Peggy [Whitson] and I would knock out a vehicle, no kidding, in a day and a half or two. But, that's pretty unusual. That was kind of if it happened to show up just before a weekend, we used the weekend to do it, so it was a freebie. Where if they had it just playing out during a normal week, it would take a week to two weeks sometimes depending on the vehicle to get it unloaded. Gary Jordan: That's right, because you've got to fit it with everything else you're doing. Wow, amazing. Matthew Buffington: Yeah, and a lot of that, I'd imagine it's already complicated enough, and I'm sure it's crazy complicated even just within NASA, but then you start throwing in all these private companies and different groups. Is everybody, how do you keep -- maybe you guys could talk about, how do you keep everybody on the same page on how things get prepared. Because Dennis, you're preparing this stuff for these companies, but then . . . Dennis Leveson-Gower: I think they all go through NASA. You'll have private hardware developers, but the manifest is controlled through NASA, and the crew procedures are controlled through NASA. Shane, correct me if I'm wrong, but at some certain point has to be layered into the controlled process of NASA, even if it's like -- so, you could think of it as NASA buying things from different vendors, but they'll manage how it goes up, or they'll manage it through SpaceX how it goes up. Shane Kimbrough: Totally agree. We saw differences, of course, because the vehicles are all different inside, so the way they, location coding is all different, and where things might be on one is different than another. That's the only difference, but bottom line is, you're going to get a bag, you're going to take it somewhere, you're going to take it apart, and take those things somewhere. And if we keep it pretty simple like that, it made it easier on the crew. Gary Jordan: Definitely. You're the pro mover when it comes to cargo missions. Shane Kimbrough: I'm going to get a reputation here. Gary Jordan: So what are some of the main differences, then, in terms of, Dennis, on your end, for qualifications, and we can start with that -- what's the difference to get it on that vehicle? But then Shane, for unpacking it, some of those little tiny things? Dennis Leveson-Gower: The biggest thing for us is always safety. We go to great lengths to try to have chemicals that will not interfere with the life support system, that won't be toxic to the crew if they're spilled. Everything that has a tox level will have certain levels of containers and containment that have to be layered onto how it's packaged and how it's stored. Then, we have human factors. We have to make sure that the 5 percent Japanese female and the 5 percent American male can handle the things. And then, even right before it's loaded, there's an expert that comes in with gloves on and feels everything, to make sure there's no sharp edges on anything, and that it's not going to hurt anybody when they start pulling them out of the packages. That's what I've seen on my end, big picture. Shane Kimbrough: I'd say from our end, it's very similar, like I mentioned before. But there are some things. Every vehicle that gets there, there's some critical items that need to come off first. And we're well aware of what those are, based on the ground team prepping us for that. And most of the time, those are delicate experiments or things like that that have to come off, or are time-sensitive. We'll obviously hit those first, and then after that we'll follow the script that the ground lays out for us, so that we're all on the same sheet of music, and everybody knows what's going on. Even if we're doing it in our spare time, where the ground control team might not be following, we can update them with, hey, we did sections two, three, and four, whatever it was, and they'll be caught back up with us when they get back on console. Gary Jordan: Yeah, like if you're doing it on a weekend or something. Sweet. So, what's an example of time-critical, since you unpacked so many vehicles, what's an example of a time-critical experiment you had to unpack? Shane Kimbrough: We had some rodents onboard, so that was one thing we had to get off. Those are always time-critical, just to get them setup in their habitations on the space station. That's one. I think some that just showed up today actually on the space station were things like pizza on ice cream. If you get things like that, those are time-critical, because you need to eat those quickly. Anyway, there's plenty of different, a wide range there I gave you from rodents to ice cream. Matthew Buffington: And I have to chime in on that, because this isn't just the sad, dehydrated stuff you buy at the museum. This is a legit pizza. Shane Kimbrough: This is the real deal, apparently. It's the first time I've heard of a pizza delivery going to the space station, so whatever company got that is going . . . Matthew Buffington: 30 minutes or less. Dennis Leveson-Gower: It's not going to be the best pizza, but it'll probably taste good to you guys. Shane Kimbrough: Ice cream's legit, though. Of course, we didn't have any when I was there, but shortly after I left, they got some, and they're getting some today. Gary Jordan: They waited until right after you left? Oh, man. Shane Kimbrough: Apparently so. Dennis Leveson-Gower: After SpaceX 8 launched, all the guys on the ground at KSC had all these Klondike bars filling the freezer. And I'm like, where did these come from? And they go, the CMC team, the cargo team, when they were packing all the cold stowage, if there's any empty areas in the freezers, they start stuffing ice cream bars in there, as a surprise for the crew. So, we have extra boxes of Klondike bars. Shane Kimbrough: Always a welcome treat. Matthew Buffington: But, when you're unpacking during this, are you in constant contact with the ground, and they're walking you through it, or it's just a mix of sometimes you are, sometimes you guys get your to-do list and you make it happen and update them later on? Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, we have a couple meetings beforehand, of course, before the vehicle gets there, and there's a whole choreography they want us to do, and the order they want us to do it in. And so, we're disciplined and follow that to the T. A lot of times we'd have questions, or something wouldn't be where it was supposed to be, and that's where we'd call down real quickly and touch base with whoever was on console for that, so that we weren't getting out of their choreography, even if something wasn't there. But they were always there if we needed them. Usually, we would just tag up at the end of a day, end of a cargo day, and make sure to tell them exactly what we did so they were up to speed on everything. Gary Jordan: I don't know if you got any Klondike bars. Was there any missions that gave you some nice treats? Shane Kimbrough: I think almost every vehicle had care packages from our families onboard. Those are always a surprise, so that was kind of cool. We didn't get any ice cream, but we got a lot of fresh fruit, and that was kind of cool. That's another thing I think they hold onto, and if there's any extra space they'll cram them in there. But, some apples and oranges and things like that were really delicious after not having them for quite a while. Gary Jordan: I was going to say, definitely a treat compared to -- it's fresh, it's literally fresh. Shane Kimbrough: We ate those really quickly. Gary Jordan: You kind of have to. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, don't want them to go bad. Matthew Buffington: I'm wondering, as you get into the coordination that's needed, and even thinking on the side when, we have researchers, scientists who are creating science experiments, it's hard enough doing it in a lab on your own. And so, when people are -- I'm wondering, Dennis, from your perspective as people design and put these experiments together, but then Dennis -- or, Shane, on your side, actually conducting these things. Talk a little about that, what goes into making an experiment for someone else to do, and your instructions on how to do it? It seems very complicated. I'm looking at you, Dennis. Dennis Leveson-Gower: Okay, what I'll receive is basically a grant proposal that had a very high science score from a panel of reviewers. And then I'll start looking at it and saying, can we actually do this in space? Because, crew time is very precious. You cannot do things as quickly in space as you can on the ground. We add a 1.4 margin of how long it would take us on earth, at a minimum. It's all got to be done in a self-contained glove box volume. And, I start working to make little tweaks and adjustments -- like I said, can we replace this chemical with a nontoxic one? Can we simplify this procedure? What's the tolerance of the timeline? Because, if they have to do an EVA, we can't have a time-critical part of our experiment at the same time they've got to be outside the station. So, we start looking at every single factor, and it takes month to organize that. But then, eventually we get that down into a set of crew procedures, just like written, step-by-step, everything to do, and it should be simple as possible, even though these astronauts are super well trained and super smart. We make these super simple documents to send them. It's kind of funny. And then the training happens at JSC, where an experienced scientist will go and work with the astronauts, and make a fighter pilot into a biologist. And then we send everything up. And then on my end, we're sitting in a control room watching a live video of the astronauts. It's very cool. And, talking to them. And usually, there's one designated person with the best speaking voice talking, and then there's five people in the room behind them with total chaos, yelling it's storage locker 5B, 6-Alpha, and they go, storage locker 5-6-B-Alpha. And then, we just are in their ear, pretty much, walking them through what we need them to do. I know there's simpler payloads, where I think Shane would say you just follow written instruction, but for some of the more complicated things, we're actually talking to them, walking them through it. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, it's very helpful to have Dennis and his team there talking to us. These scientists in general have spent many years creating whatever the experiment is. The last thing we want to do is mess it up, or mess up any of their data. So, we want to be very careful in all that whole process Dennis explained about getting the experiment approved and then what he's got to do to get it in a crew procedure. That takes a lot of people a lot of time. And so, by the time it gets to us, it's pretty well refined. It's not perfect, because I haven't seen that procedure, and I might read something differently than Dennis would read it. So, it is so nice to have them on the horn, so to speak, right there talking to us in case we have any questions, so we don't mess up any of the experiment or any of the data. Gary Jordan: That's true. And then off of Dennis' point of making them as simple as possible, a lot of it has to do with the fact that, you're right, these scientists spend so much time getting these procedures ready for this experiment, but that's not the only one you're doing. You are doing quite a few experiments. Shane Kimbrough: Very true, and in general, we're not trained on all these. We're trained generically on experiments. Like Dennis alluded to, making a pilot a biologist for a day. I was lucky enough to have Peggy there, who is a biologist, so she could help me understand something that normally I wouldn't understand, because it's not in my background. But Dennis and his team can get some really complicated experiment into a procedure that's simple, like he said, so that even I can understand it. That's pretty good. Gary Jordan: So, what else do you have to train for, besides the scientific experiments? Because Dennis also talked about, you have to train for EVAs, and on this last mission you did four, so that's quite a big chunk of time that takes away for science. And then you've got to train for unloading cargo vehicles. What else are you training for? Shane Kimbrough: Those are the big ones. Of course, the cargo vehicles when they come up, we actually use the robotic arm to grab them, to capture them. So, a lot of our training is with the robotics team to make sure we do that operation successfully. Grabbing something that's going 17,500 miles an hour is not trivial. But, with our training, we always train of course for the worst-case scenarios, and the vehicles, at least when I was there, behaved very well. It seemed like it was simple, even though the stress is pretty high, the gains are up, because it's a real vehicle and you want to make sure we grab this thing and get it onboard. So, that's another piece of our training we do. What else? Those are the big-ticket items. Operationally, EVAs, like you talked about, robotics, when we're capturing these vehicles, and most of the other time we're doing experiments. That makes up most of our days onboard the space station. Gary Jordan: Yeah. Was it different to use the robotic arm to capture the different vehicles, or did it translate pretty well? Shane Kimbrough: There are differences certainly with every vehicle. So, we had Cygnus, we had SpaceX, we had HTV from Japan, and we had a Russian vehicle, but that one docks automatically, so we didn't have to reach out with the robotic arm to grab that one. But, there are several differences, and the cues you use are different for every vehicle. Again, we get spun up by our training team a week or two prior to each vehicle showing up, so we remember you're looking here, not here, based on whatever the vehicle was, and using certain cues to help get the vehicle onboard. Matthew Buffington: I'd imagine no matter how much you train on that, and I'm sure there's simulations and different things of remoting the giant robotic arm, I imagine once you're doing that for the first time, it's got to be nerve-wracking, because you're like, this is a very expensive toy, I don't want to mess this up. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, it was on the first time. And again, we got several opportunities, so I won't say it became less important, but you got more comfortable with it. But, it is a big deal. And I really wanted Tomas, the French astronaut I was flying with, to get a lot of experiment. So, when we were together, I grabbed the first one, and after that I let him grab all the other ones, to get his experience level up. And he'll go fly again here in a few years, hopefully, and be able to use all that experience to help his crewmates out when he's onboard. Gary Jordan: Definitely. When you're training to capture these things, like Matt was saying, when you're in the real thing, it's a little bit different, but the training, I've seen it before. It's pretty detailed. There's a projection of, it's like a, I don't know, describe the training. Shane Kimbrough: We have this, we call it a dome facility, because that's what it is, and the graphics are just fantastic. And it gives you the sense of speed in which things are coming together, and the rats that you're coming are very good. But, it's just not the real thing. It's like our pool. Our pool is amazing to train for space walks, but it's not the real thing. There are differences. And until you get up there -- and now, we're in the Cupola, we're flying almost all of these out of the Kupla, which maybe think about you're upside down flying it, so spatially you've got to get your head around where are the arms moving even though you're upside down, those kind of things. It's not super simple until you actually get up there and do it a few times, and then it becomes a little bit easier on the mind. Gary Jordan: I can see why they would put you through the training for it, because there's a lot to think about, just being upside down, using the controls, controlling something from a Cupola, but then the arm's over here, I guess. Shane Kimbrough: Right. So, it's not necessarily right out your window. It is in this case when you're in the Kupla, but you could fly it from the lab as well, and you wouldn't have any windows and you'd just be using cameras. That's what we used to do. That's what we did on my first flight. So, things have gotten a lot better in that regard. Gary Jordan: I'm sure they write these procedures to be as easy as possible, so Dennis, what are some of the techniques you do whenever you're writing these scientific procedures for the astronauts to make it as easy as possible for them? Dennis Leveson-Gower: Yeah, I mean, we try to boil it down to step-by-step, but also add in some rationale for why you're doing it a certain way, so they don't have to memorize the exact step, but they can know what the end goal is and why they're doing it, so they know I should make sure I keep this cold, or I should make sure I handle this gently. And then hopefully, that helps. But I find that most of the time, it boils down to, we have the procedure, but then they say, tell me what to do next, and we're just talking to them. Shane Kimbrough: Especially when we're in the glove box. We're immobile when we're in there. We can't move around and do things. Dennis Leveson-Gower: Yeah, and how do you read something when you're doing that? Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, so it's very helpful to have you guys onboard. Matthew Buffington: And for me, going back, one thing that occurred to me as you're dealing with some, if it's a sensitive science experiment or the precious pizza cargo, I wonder, when you're packing, obviously there's a little bit of Tetris, where you're trying to place things into the cargo to be very efficient. But it's also, launches are quite intense. So I'd imagine, Dennis, I'd imagine things have to be durable enough to survive such a crazy, extreme, launching, and then it's floating in space, and then the big robotic arm that Shane's operating is grabbing it. But then also, on the flipside, Shane, I'd imagine for you, being a human experiencing that sensation as well. But what goes into keeping things safe and packed in? Dennis Leveson-Gower: Yeah, for especially things like the rodent habitat, we strap it to a table and we vibrate the heck out of it. It goes through launch impact testing, it gets put through temperatures, it goes through pressurization, depressurization. Anything like that goes through rigorous testing to make sure it stands up to things. And then, it's usually packed in some foam, into a locker. Then, it's put on a scale so that you can find the center of gravity of that hardware, and also the weight and dimensions. And then from that, some eggheads do some math, and some robots load it into the capsule the right way so it's all balanced. I don't understand all that part. But, we just make sure that we've tested everything, whatever. And I mean, it's pretty excessive. Whatever could possible go wrong, we test, worst-case, and then we treat it as gently as possible. And yeah, then wrap it up and ship it up. Matthew Buffington: And how is that, Shane, from your perspective being the human inside said rocket, vibrating and going through those intense pressures? Shane Kimbrough: On the Soyuz, which is what I just flew on, I was very surprised on the launch how smooth it was. I had an experience on the space shuttle before, and it was rocking and rolling and shaking around like you'd imagine, and you see in the movies. But the Soyuz was super smooth. We pulled about 3Gs going uphill, but the ride itself was very smooth. I was very impressed. Matthew Buffington: So, not only designing the experiments and getting them up, but you'd mentioned before, Dennis, that it could take years in this process. I'd imagine there's several experiments and ideas that never get into Shane's hands. Or, great ideas that just, either it's funding or different things. It's a competitive process, and everybody wants their cool science experiment to go up. Dennis Leveson-Gower: Yeah, no, we have a queue of investigators going out to 2022. We're trying to get them flown off as fast as possible, but we're limited by launch vehicles and crew time. Crew time is becoming less of a concern, because we're getting an extra crew member up there. But now it's launch vehicles, and you can only launch so many experiments at a time. But, there's a whole list of reserve experiments, of people that have put their heart and soul into something, and they just need 15 minutes of crew time, and they're just hoping their experiment can get done. Matthew Buffington: This is stuff that's already up there? Dennis Leveson-Gower: I think they have over 100 experiments at a time on the ISS. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, I think we ended up doing 273, I was told, over the six months. But yeah, at any one time, there can be over 100 onboard, that's about right. Dennis Leveson-Gower: And I remember someone saying, Peggy's going to get every one of those done. She's going to work through the backlog. Matthew Buffington: Singlehandedly. Shane Kimbrough: We took out all the task list and all the things that were backlogged, for sure. So, it was nice. Dennis Leveson-Gower: Yeah, a lot of people over here appreciate it when you guys give up some of your free time and bang one of those experiments out. Shane Kimbrough: Glad to do it. Gary Jordan: That's true. What else, besides if you were to take the weekend to unpack a cargo vehicle, what else are you doing on the weekends? Shane Kimbrough: Weekends, generally on Saturday mornings, it's spent cleaning. So, it's like your house, about once a week you need to probably do a little cleaning. So, we spend all Saturday morning vacuuming the whole station, wiping things down, and just getting everything back in shape after usually a busy week. And then, Saturday afternoons are generally off, and Sundays are generally off. So, I'm a big sports fan, so I was usually watching games, whether it was football or World Series or anything going on. Tomas got us into watching rugby. So, that was big in Europe at the time. So, we got to watch some of those matches. So, we do that as a crew sometimes, or sometimes individually you'd watch those things. And you certainly can catch up on emails or watch movies or call home or any of those things as well. Or, you can just look out the window, which was always spectacular, something you can't do here on earth. So, I tried to do that more often, because I can always talk to people or email people when I'm on earth, but I can't always look out the Kupla window for a rev around the earth in 90 minutes. That was pretty cool. Matthew Buffington: I'm curious, how is that setup? You don't have a normal weekend like you would. It's not like you're commuting home and spending the weekend with your family. You're sitting there floating in space, so there's never really a day off. You're always on. Shane Kimbrough: Correct. So I had to, when I was the commander, I made it clear to my crew that we were going to work from DBC to DBC, which is the morning conference with mission control all the way to the evening conference with mission control, but we weren't going to work outside of that. And there were a few exceptions on the weekends where we'd say, there's this one cargo vehicle, for example, we want to unload. Let's do two hours, and that's it. We're going to work two hours together. If you've got three people, that equates to about six hours of work. And we can do a lot in two hours. But I would make sure we weren't working all weekend, because as the commander, I've got to make sure the crew is not exhausted, for one, so they can hit the next week's activities when Monday starts. But also, we've got to always be ready for that really bad day, an emergency onboard the space station, where that's in the middle of the night or during the day. The crew's got to be fresh enough to handle that. So, I'm always thinking about that as I'm working the crew and the crew's being worked by the ground. And sometimes, we have to modify what they want us to do in order to keep our reserves, so to speak, to be able to handle an emergency. Gary Jordan: That's right. So, as a commander, how much jurisdiction do you have on time, because I know they schedule a lot of things for you, but then what power do you have as a commander? Shane Kimbrough: Big picture, we'll talk. I'll talk with the lead flight director usually before the week, or maybe even two weeks out. We'll talk about the big picture, how things are going to flow, and what they want to get done. And then, the details just kind of flush out. I don't really have too much influence on that. I'll let the flight director know, here's what I want to focus on. Make sure we get maybe a day here or there because we worked last weekend, and those kind of things, because that happens a lot. And then in general, if something's coming up real-time, day-of, maybe an experiment or something is running twice as long as it was expected -- that happens. And we'll just adjust real-time. Maybe I'll take the activity that Peggy was supposed to do next, if she's buried in this experiment, or vice versa. We'll help each other out to get all the things done. And you do that almost daily. You get done with something early, you go help somebody else if you can, or else you take something else off their timeline by knocking out something down the road for them. Gary Jordan: Sounds like you guys were really tightknit. You guts needed to be a really tight team to get all this stuff done. Shane Kimbrough: Totally agree, and I was super fortunate to have Peggy and Tomas onboard for about 90 percent of my time onboard. I was with Kate [Rubins] and Takuya [Onishi] for only a week or so, unfortunately for me, because they were superstars as well. But, they left shortly after we got there. So really, my whole mission was with Peggy and Tomas on the US side. And we did really work well together. We thought the same, our work ethic was the same, and we just loved helping each other out and loved being around each other, which doesn't always happen. So, I was very fortunate. Gary Jordan: Very true. That makes me -- getting back on track to the cargo stuff, I was actually thinking about, we were talking a lot about when cargo comes up, how to get it, how to unpack it, but then, there's a packing story, and they're different for each vehicle, because some of them just burn up, some of them have experiments running before they burn up, and then some of them actually come back. What are some of the differences there? Shane Kimbrough: Yeah, so we had all those. The only one that comes back to earth, as you're probably aware, is SpaceX. So, anything that's real critical experiment-wise, or even maybe broken equipment that engineers want to get their hands on to figure out what happened to it, those kind of things we'll put into SpaceX, so they can come back to the ground. A lot of that has to do with experiments we did on our bodies -- blood draws and those kind of things need to come back, as well as rodent research things will come back on SpaceX, because the scientists need to recover them and look at the data and get all that stuff. That's one thing. All the other vehicles in general burn up, like you mentioned. So to me, I think of it, that's how we manage our trash. That's how we manage trash on the space station. We crate tons of trash, believe it or not, up there, whether it's food trash or clothes trash or experiment trash or waste, human waste. All that stuff needs to get off at some point. And the way we do that is to use these cargo vehicles that are not coming back to earth. And we can't just cram things in there, like you might think. It's a very organized way. And again, we'll get a plan from the ground team and mission control that lays out how they want us to pack it. And a lot of times there are experiments onboard that will happen once it leaves the space station before it gets burned up, like you mentioned. So, we've got to make sure certain aisle ways are clear, and the airflow is going to be correct, so that those experiments can happen correctly. Gary Jordan: I see. So, it's kind of like a supply chain, really, because there needs to be new stuff sent up to the International Space Station, and then you need to take some of the old stuff out. That's the cycle that keeps the ISS going. Shane Kimbrough: Correct. And launch delays and things don't happen, and these launches aren't always happening on time. So, sometimes your trash backlog gets pretty high on the space station. That's not a -- there are some odors and things that go along with that. So, we always like to have vehicles coming frequently, so we can manage our trash, of course along with doing great experiments as well. Gary Jordan: But you guys have plenty of food and all that kind of stuff, right? So, even if something gets delayed, you'll be set for a while, for at least a lot of things. Shane Kimbrough: Yeah. I think they have about a six-month reserve onboard. So, we can handle a lot of delays, I guess. Gary Jordan: Dennis, on your end, when it comes to these experiments coming back to earth, and especially on SpaceX, the ones you actually can get your hands on and don't burn up, what are some of the things you're looking at for those? Dennis Leveson-Gower: Looking at getting it back as quickly as possible is usually our priority, especially with rodent experiments, cell science experiments. You're trying to study the effects of microgravity on these organisms, and the minute you start getting back into the earth's atmosphere, you're going to start to experience gravity and see molecular changes. So, the clock is ticking to try to get the samples back. So in the future, hopefully return vehicles can land on solid ground, and we get the samples back even faster. Right now, it's taking about a day or two on a boat in the ocean. But yeah, the priority's obviously for animal experiments, we want all of them alive and happy. And so far, we've done it twice and they have been. JAXA has also done it twice. All the mice did really well on return. And, yeah, intact samples kept at the right stowage temperatures and everything, then we're happy. Matthew Buffington: On a similar note, and this is a slight pivot, but I love the little catchphrase of working off the earth for the earth. We've talked a lot about how it all happens, from an idea, an experiment, it's created, it's packed, it's sent up, then you actually conduct it. But, I'd love to pick your brain, Dennis and also Shane, of the why. Why is doing experiments in microgravity important? Clearly NASA and the international community is spending a lot of money to put this thing up here. And, what can we get out of that that you just can't do on the ground? Dennis Leveson-Gower: Yeah, there's a lot that we can't do on the ground. My bias is that we want to go to Mars, and we want to explore space, and we want to make Star Trek real, so we should be figuring out what happens to our bodies, what happens to physical processes on a cellular level, really understand the biology and what changes when the vector of gravity is removed. Of course, there is objectives to benefit the earth, as you say, and one prime example is, you can't have forced bedrest of research animals, but if they're in space, all the gravity load is off, and it will mimic conditions where people have extended bedrest or unloading on their muscles. You also, microgravity seems to have an accelerated aging effect, so you can look at age-related factors. You have fluid shifts, and basically high blood pressure in your brain, and that starts affecting the astronauts' vision and things like that, and we want to understand how that works. So, you have a lot of, like, growing 3D tissues in the lab. To be able to do those kind of things, you may be able to do them better in space, and understand the processes better in space. And I think it directly translates into, benefits the earth. Sometimes, you have to connect the dots a little bit to see how that space research affects the ground, but if you look at every experiment we've done, it always has spin-off benefits. Shane Kimbrough: Tough to add much to that. It's very true. The way I look at it is, everything we do up there is either for future exploration, like Dennis mentioned, or it's to help humanity in general. If we're not doing that, I think we're really missing the boat. But everything we touch up there and I've been involved with has met one of those two criteria. One example I like to think of is, we have this machine up there that makes water. It takes every bit of liquid onboard the space station, from urine to sweat to condensation to anything, and it goes into this machine and it makes water that's extremely pure that we use for our food and our drinks the next day, so to speak. It's a great technology for us to have. It's not something we have to have for the space station, but we will have to have something like that for Mars, or the moon, or wherever we're going to go deep space. So, we're working on that now for future exploration. A side benefit of this whole thing is, we actually use that technology on earth as well. There's third-world countries that don't have clean water supplies, and the same technology is helping them get clean water. That's really a cool thing when you're helping future exploration and you're helping humanity. Gary Jordan: That's just one example, right? That's one thing on the station that's helping in both directions. Matt, I think that's a really good place to end the podcast. Matthew Buffington: I think that's perfect, dude. Gary Jordan: I think that's fantastic, because it kind of sums up why do we do all the science, and why the science goes up and down to the International Space Station. Guys, thanks so much for coming on the show, both to Shane and Dennis for coming on Houston We Have a Podcast and NASA in Silicon Valley, the first time we're doing this together. Matt, I really hope we can do this again. Matthew Buffington: With our powers combined, it works out. Thanks a lot for helping pull this together. This has been a lot of fun. Gary Jordan: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, guys. Shane Kimbrough: It was great, thanks everybody. Dennis Leveson-Gower: Thanks for having me. Matthew Buffington: Huge thanks to Dennis and Shane. Awesome. [END] Gary Jordan: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today, we teamed up with the NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast to talk about cargo missions, and we had a couple different perspectives with Shane Kimbrough as an astronaut and also Dennis Leveson-Gower as a senior project scientist at NASA’s Ames Research Center in California. So if you want to want to check out all of NASA’s podcasts, just go to nasa.gov/podcasts. There’s where you can sign up for the NASA in Silicon Valley Podcast and subscribe to them, and there’s also a new one that just got released – last week I think at this point – called Gravity Assist and it’s hosted by Dr. Jim Green, NASA’s Director of Planetary Scientist. It’ll start with a 10-part series where he starts with the Sun and then goes all the way out to Pluto and makes his stops all along our solar system and then talks about planets beyond. This is going to be a really good podcast, so definitely stay tuned. We were talking about cargo missions, so definitely tune in to the live coverage of the launch and capture of SpaceX CRS-13. I think SpaceX covers the launch, but you can find the latest times for the capture on nasa.gov/NTV, as in NASA TV, and you can see the latest schedule for when we’re going to be broadcasting that. Make sure to follow us on social media: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Make sure to use the hashtag #asknasa to submit an idea for the podcast, and make sure to mention it’s for Houston We Have a Podcast if you want it answered here. This podcast was recorded on November 14, 2017. Thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stoll, Greg Wiseman, Kelly Humphries, Megan Sumner, and Brandi Dean from here in Houston. Thanks to Matt Buffington, Eric Land, Abby Tabor, and Frank Tavares from NASA’s Ames Research Center for teaming up for this podcast. And again thanks to Shane Kimbrough and Dennis Leveson-Gower for coming on the show. We’ll be back next week.

'Yeah, I've grown; I can't go out anymore': differences in perceived risks between girls and boys entering adolescence.

PubMed

Mmari, Kristin; Moreau, Caroline; Gibbs, Susannah Emily; De Meyer, Sara; Michielsen, Kristien; Kabiru, Caroline W; Bello, Bamidele; Fatusi, Adesegun; Lou, Chaohua; Zuo, Xiayun; Yu, Chunyan; Al-Attar, Ghada S T; El-Gibaly, Omaima

2017-10-18

This analysis is based on data from the Global Early Adolescent Study, which aims to understand the factors that predispose young people aged 10-14 years to positive or negative health trajectories. Specifically, interview transcripts from 202 adolescents and 191 parents across six diverse urban sites (Baltimore, Ghent, Nairobi, Ile Ife, Assuit and Shanghai) were analysed to compare the perceived risks associated with entering adolescence and how these risks differed by gender. Findings reveal that in all sites except Ghent, both young people and their parents perceived that girls face greater risks related to their sexual and reproductive health, and because of their sexual development, were perceived to require more protection. In contrast, when boys grow up, they and their parents recognised that their independence broadened, and parents felt that boys were strong enough to protect themselves. This has negative consequences as well, as boys were perceived to be more prone to risks associated with street violence and peer pressure. These differences in perceptions of vulnerability and related mobility are markers of a gender system that separates young women and men's roles, responsibilities and behaviours in ways that widen gender power imbalance with lifelong social and health consequences for people of both sexes.

Electrochemical process for the preparation of nitrogen fertilizers

DOEpatents

Aulich, Ted R.; Olson, Edwin S.; Jiang, Junhua

2013-03-19

The present invention provides methods and apparatus for the preparation of nitrogen fertilizers including ammonium nitrate, urea, urea-ammonium nitrate, and/or ammonia utilizing a source of carbon, a source of nitrogen, and/or a source of hydrogen. Implementing an electrolyte serving as ionic charge carrier, (1) ammonium nitrate is produced via the reduction of a nitrogen source at the cathode and the oxidation of a nitrogen source at the anode; (2) urea or its isomers are produced via the simultaneous cathodic reduction of a carbon source and a nitrogen source; (3) ammonia is produced via the reduction of nitrogen source at the cathode and the oxidation of a hydrogen source at the anode; and (4) urea-ammonium nitrate is produced via the simultaneous cathodic reduction of a carbon source and a nitrogen source, and anodic oxidation of a nitrogen source. The electrolyte can be solid.

Methods and apparatus for producing and storing positrons and protons

DOEpatents

Akers, Douglas W [Idaho Falls, ID

2010-07-06

Apparatus for producing and storing positrons may include a trap that defines an interior chamber therein and that contains an electric field and a magnetic field. The trap may further include a source material that includes atoms that, when activated by photon bombardment, become positron emitters to produce positrons. The trap may also include a moderator positioned adjacent the source material. A photon source is positioned adjacent the trap so that photons produced by the photon source bombard the source material to produce the positron emitters. Positrons from the positron emitters and moderated positrons from the moderator are confined within the interior chamber of the trap by the electric and magnetic fields. Apparatus for producing and storing protons are also disclosed.

Electrochemical process for the preparation of nitrogen fertilizers

DOEpatents

Jiang, Junhua; Aulich, Ted R; Ignatchenko, Alexey V

2015-04-14

Methods and apparatus for the preparation of nitrogen fertilizers including ammonium nitrate, urea, urea-ammonium nitrate, and/or ammonia are disclosed. Embodiments include (1) ammonium nitrate produced via the reduction of a nitrogen source at the cathode and the oxidation of a nitrogen source at the anode; (2) urea or its isomers produced via the simultaneous cathodic reduction of a carbon source and a nitrogen source: (3) ammonia produced via the reduction of nitrogen source at the cathode and the oxidation of a hydrogen source or a hydrogen equivalent such as carbon monoxide or a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen at the anode; and (4) urea-ammonium nitrate produced via the simultaneous cathodic reduction of a carbon source and a nitrogen source, and anodic oxidation of a nitrogen source.

Comparison of reactant and analyte ions for ⁶³Nickel, corona discharge, and secondary electrospray ionization sources with ion mobility-mass spectrometry.

PubMed

Crawford, C L; Hill, H H

2013-03-30

(63)Nickel radioactive ionization ((63)Ni) is the most common and widely used ion source for ion mobility spectrometry (IMS). Regulatory, financial, and operational concerns with this source have promoted recent development of non-radioactive sources, such as corona discharge ionization (CD), for stand-alone IMS systems. However, there has been no comparison of the negative ion species produced by all three sources in the literature. This study compares the negative reactant and analyte ions produced by three sources on an ion mobility-mass spectrometer: conventional (63)Ni, CD, and secondary electrospray ionization (SESI). Results showed that (63)Ni and SESI produced the same reactant ion species while CD produced only the nitrate monomer and dimer ions. The analyte ions produced by each ion source were the same except for the CD source which produced a different ion species for the explosive RDX than either the (63)Ni or SESI source. Accurate and reproducible reduced mobility (K0) values, including several values reported here for the first time, were found for each explosive with each ion source. Overall, the SESI source most closely reproduced the reactant ion species and analyte ion species profiles for (63)Ni. This source may serve as a non-radioactive, robust, and flexible alternative for (63)Ni. Copyright © 2013 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

32 CFR 655.10 - Use of radiation sources by non-Army entities on Army land (AR 385-11).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... radioisotope; or (5) A machine-produced ionizing-radiation source capable of producing an area, accessible to... NARM and machine-produced ionizing radiation sources, the applicant has an appropriate State... 32 National Defense 4 2010-07-01 2010-07-01 true Use of radiation sources by non-Army entities on...

Electrochemical process for the preparation of nitrogen fertilizers

DOEpatents

Aulich, Ted R [Grand Forks, ND; Olson, Edwin S [Grand Forks, ND; Jiang, Junhua [Grand Forks, ND

2012-04-10

The present invention provides methods and apparatus for the preparation of nitrogen fertilizers including ammonium nitrate, urea, urea-ammonium nitrate, and/or ammonia, at low temperature and pressure, preferably at ambient temperature and pressure, utilizing a source of carbon, a source of nitrogen, and/or a source of hydrogen or hydrogen equivalent. Implementing an electrolyte serving as ionic charge carrier, (1) ammonium nitrate is produced via the reduction of a nitrogen source at the cathode and the oxidation of a nitrogen source at the anode; (2) urea or its isomers are produced via the simultaneous cathodic reduction of a carbon source and a nitrogen source; (3) ammonia is produced via the reduction of nitrogen source at the cathode and the oxidation of a hydrogen source or a hydrogen equivalent such as carbon monoxide or a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen at the anode; and (4) urea-ammonium nitrate is produced via the simultaneous cathodic reduction of a carbon source and a nitrogen source, and anodic oxidation of a nitrogen source. The electrolyte can be aqueous, non-aqueous, or solid.

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 41 The Space Launch System Part.1

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-04-20

Production Transcript for Ep41 The Space Launch System Part.1.mp3 Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, we have a podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center Episode 41, the Space Launch System part one. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. On this podcast, we bring in the experts, NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all to let you know the coolest information right here at NASA. So, today, we're talking about the most powerful rocket since the Saturn V moon rocket. It's called NASA's Space Launch System. So, we've got two guests from Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama here with us today to tell us a little bit about the rocket, the payloads it will carry. Don't worry. We'll define what a payload is. And then, where it's going to go. Spoiler alert, it will bring people big stuff and little stuff all farther than we've ever gone before. Wait. Why did I do that? That totally ruins the, oh wait. Never mind. It doesn't ruin anything. This is a really good topic, jam packed with information. So much information that we're going to do this in two parts. This is part one. So, with us today are David Smith and Paul Bookout. David is the Vice President for Advanced Programs at Victory Solutions in Huntsville, Alabama. He has a long career in aerospace engineering and is a Subject Matter Expert on rocket architecture and how payloads fit inside the rocket. He wrote the SLS mission planner's guide which gives payload developers a general idea of the capabilities of the rocket and some technical specifications, so they can determine how their payloads might fit inside of it. He looks after some of the big payloads. Our other guest is Dr. Paul Bookout, EM-1 Secondary Payloads Integration Manager who manages integration of five CubeSats in the giant rocket as well as the avionics that will control deployment of the 13 small satellite payloads on the first mission of SLS and Orion called Exploration Mission-1, EM-1. He spends his time managing the little payloads, not much bigger than a shoebox, that goes inside of a skyscraper-sized rocket. So, we're going to be talking about just how powerful this monster rocket is, its unique capabilities, and what it will be used for, where it is in its development, its first mission with the Orion crew vehicle, and then look ahead to the future to missions to the moon, to Mars, and throughout the solar system. So, we are go for launch with Mr. David Smith and Dr. Paul Bookout for the Space Launch System Program. T minus five, four, three, two, one, zero, and liftoff of Episode 41 of Houston, We Have a Podcast. Always wanted to do that. Feel like I just ruined it. You know what? Let's just start. [ Music ] Host: T minus five second and counting. Mark. [ Music ] Host: There she goes. Host: Houston, we have a podcast. [ Music ] Host: All right. Paul and David, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. We talked about Orion on a few episodes so far but really haven't had the privilege to talk about he giant rocket that Orion is going to be on, the SLS. And, we have you guys here from Marshall to actually talk to us about this rocket. So, thank you very much for coming on. David Smith: Sure. David Smith: Thank you for having us. Host: Our pleasure. Host: All right. Just to sort of back up, we have Paul Bookout and David Smith, so you guys want to talk a little bit about each one, so we can identify your voices. Paul Bookout: David, go ahead. David Smith: Well, sure. I'm just an engineer. My associate Dr. Bookout is a doctor. Host: Okay. David Smith: But, we both work together on trying to find innovative ways to associate payloads with the capability of SLS which is going to be the world's largest rocket. So, I kind of look at the larger payloads, and Dr. Bookout looks at maybe some of the other kind, smaller payloads that can fit in the niches that are left over. Paul Bookout: Well, thank you Vice President David. David Smith: Yes. Paul Bookout: I appreciate you talking about introducing myself. So, what we have is secondary payloads. Again, we're just trying to understand the whole utilization of SLS since it's going to be the most powerful rocket built since the Saturn V. It's going to have a lot more capability, so we want to utilize it to its fullest. Host: Okay. So, you said there's going to be, basically, we're going to utilize the rocket to its maximum potential. We got this big rocket, and we're going to test it. But, while we test it, let's put some cool stuff on it. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Host: So, let's back up and talk about just SLS. What is SLS? What is this giant rocket that we're talking about? Paul Bookout: SLS is America's rocket. It's the next NASA's launch vehicle that's going to be able to put humans back to the moon and further out into deep space. Of course, a lot of it's built on shuttle hardware heritage. The SLS rocket's made up of the solar rocket boosters, a main core, an upper stage, and then the crew Orion spacecraft with a co-manifest payload or a primary payload. And, David will talk a little bit more about that later. So, of course, this is NASA's first exploration class launch vehicle since Saturn V, so we're going to be putting humans back to the moon, out to deep space, and eventually, you know, to Mars systems. It has a very large mass lift capability and also volume, so some of these larger probes that are satellites or probes that are going to outer planets that they'll be able to arrive at their destination in just a few years instead of maybe eight to ten years. [00:05:24] You're cutting that trip down to one or two years. So, it's a lot of savings there. Host: So, that's a really important part to kind of hone in on is just the versatility of this rocket. You're talking about a giant rocket that can take people, giant payloads, faster, farther. That's pretty much the whole summary of the SLS, right? Paul Bookout: Yes. Definitely. Host: So, what's, what does it take to be human rated? So, I guess the difference between something that's not a rocket and something that is. Paul Bookout: Of course, it goes through the whole development process, starts at the beginning. You have to have safety emission assurances involved from the very beginning. Just an overview, you have to have, like redundant systems. If something goes wrong with one system, there's another system to kick in to back up to still make the vehicle safe. There's safety reviews throughout the whole process. We do additional testing, a lot more testing than other commercial launch vehicles do just to make sure that the vehicle is safe for humans. Host: That's really the main thing, right? Paul Bookout: Yeah. [00:06:33] Host: The safety. But, then, also the redundancy because I guess redundancy is cost. Redundancy is weight. So, you have to factor that into a rocket where you can just say, "Oh, if it fails, you know, with the primary systems, it fails." But, at least the only thing we lose is this piece of hardware. And, not to say that that's not a bad thing, but. Paul Bookout: Right. Host: It's very different from human life. So, I guess, absolutely, you need to be considerate of that. Paul Bookout: Right. And, there is a tradeoff, as you was saying. Additional systems, more mass, and that's mass that is being taken away from your primary payloads. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: And lift capability, but we need that to be safe. Host: You know what? I actually always wanted to ask this question, but you said primary payloads. I get this question all the time from folks not in NASA, and it's just, we use this term all the time, but what, to you, is a payload? [00:07:22] Paul Bookout: A payload is anything that goes up on top of the rocket that's lifted into space. It can be a satellite. I can be probes. Of course, the Orion spacecraft, once it's on the rocket, it can have its own second co-manifested payload along with it. So, just anything, really, that's launched into space. Host: Does a person count as a payload. Paul Bookout: We don't like to refer to. [ Laughter ] Host: It doesn't humanize it as much, right? Paul Bookout: No, it doesn't. No. Host: So, I guess, for example, going back to that co-manifest thing, the Orion. The Orion would be the payload. That would be the primary thing that you want to bring into orbit. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: But, then, there's something that is, something called co-manifested which means it's not the primary thing, but it's also part of the part that you want to lift the mission. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: For example, on the second generation of the SLS rocket, it will have capability of launching a co-manifest payload along with Orion, and it could be anywhere from additional probe going out into the moon, or it can be call separation bus, propulsion system that's launched. And, then, when a habitat is launched, then they can be combined and go to the moon. So, it's, allows us to build capabilities out in space, too, with co-manifested payloads. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Along with Orion. Host: Is that one of the things you're working on? Or, you're working on, I guess, secondary payload? Paul Bookout: Yes. I'm mainly focused in on secondary payloads. Host: So, what's secondary payloads? Paul Bookout: Okay. Secondary payloads, or they call auxiliary payloads. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: They're payloads that do not drive the primary mission of the, of that launch. For example, on EM-1, we have secondary payloads on that. That's EM-1, Exploration Mission-1. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: First launch of SLS rocket. David Smith: Yeah. Paul Bookout: We have 13 payloads on that, and I'll talk a little bit more about that later. But, the primary requirements they have is for secondary payloads in general is do no harm to the vehicle and minimal impact. So, the do no harm aspect is that we have to fly safe. The whole system, deployment system and everything, is designed to be safe. Like, all the CubeSats are turned off during launch. They have to have, like, redundant systems, as in two separation switches that allow them to turn on. Because, if one fails while we're being launched, it could turn on the systems. So, we have two there. Host: Oh, okay. Paul Bookout: To back that up, to keep it safe. And then, minimal requirements, of course, if the rocket is ready to launch and the secondary payload's not ready yet, it's going to launch. Because it does not affect the primary mission of the payload, of the launch. Host: Right. Paul Bookout: Of that. Host: Well, that puts a lot of constraints on you, then, huh? Paul Bookout: Yes, yes it does. Host: Because, not only do you have to worry about these, and I guess we can kind of hone in on the CubeSats a little bit later. But, you have to worry about the CubeSats, but now you have to add something else to it. Now, you have to add these redundant systems. And then, there's no guarantee that if you're not ready, that's okay. We're going to go without you. Paul Bookout: Right. Exactly. SLS is, the first rocket's not going to be the only configuration of SLS. And, of course, SLS is Space Launch System. We, the first launch is going to be called Block 1. Then, we're going to be stepping up to Block 1B which means we're going to be adding a different upper stage. Right now, we're utilizing an existing Boeing ULA upper stage to use on this mission, mainly to save initial money so we can develop the core stage. And, once the core stage has been developed, then we can have additional funds to start developing the new upper stage or exploration upper stage. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Okay? And, that's going to be the Block 1B configuration. And, Block 1B will have actually two configurations. It'll be a crew which was, as we talked about before, the Orion spacecraft with a co-manifested payload. The other configuration will be the Block 1B cargo where that would be your primary payloads. So, the only payload will be that major payload. Host: Okay. So, when you say "Block", you're looking at the entire rocket configuration. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: And, Block 1 is this configuration with the ULE booster, right? Paul Bookout: Right. Host: Okay. And then, Block 1B has the NASA booster on top. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: Instead of the ULA, but then you can do crew or cargo on that one. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Host: Whereas, EM-1 you don't, and EM-1, we can get into this later, is, you're not going to have crew on it, right? That's not part of the test. That's for one of the later missions. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: I see. So, really, the blocks are kind of the stages of developing the rocket into its full capability of. Paul Bookout: Right. Host: Of this eventual Mars lander. That's awesome. So, now, you're using these commercial elements. You're using ULA in Block 1 and the leftover solid rocket boosters until, eventually, 1B, 1B crew, you get to Block 2. Now, you have the configuration. New boosters. You got the NASA upper stage. You got all of these configurations, and now you can go to, where can you go? David Smith: Well. Host: Is it just to Mars? David Smith: Well, you really need Block 2, ultimately, to fulfill a human settlement on the lunar surface as well. Host: Really? David Smith: You need a kind of lift capability. But, if you want to assemble an architecture, because it'll take multiple flights of a Block 2 to assemble a human architecture capable of transiting to Mars, you'll need four to five Block 2 flights at a time to assemble that stack that can go to Mars. Host: So, what's, I guess, how much more power does Block 2 provide you that, I guess, Block 1B would not? David Smith: Well, it nominally, you're talking another 25 tons or so. So, it could bring a second Orion vehicle in comparison because Orion weighs about 25 tons. So, it, really, from a lift standpoint, is maybe a fifth more powerful than the Block 1B, and it gives you that extra diameter, potentially for the payload ferrying that would allow, you know, the smaller the diameter of the ferrying, the taller a lander needs to be. And, think about a lander on the surface of the moon or Mars, if it's three or four stories, that's a lot of vertical height an astronaut has to overcome every time they're taking stuff back and forth. Host: That's right. David Smith: So, we're, the larger the diameter, the shorter can be the squatter, can be the easier it is to manipulate items on and off a lander. Whether it's on the moon or Mars. Host: Okay. Wow. So, then, you're talking about once this Block 2 configuration is done with the new solid rocket boosters, you can actually have a wider payload go on top of the rocket. David Smith: Right. Well, there's a nuclear thermal propulsion that's out there that has the potential of getting people to Mars a lot sooner. It needs a much larger diameter because it used hydrogen as a fuel. Hydrogen is very bulky because it isn't very dense. And so, if we were ever to use a new kind of propulsion that would lower the time to get to Mars, you need a Block 2 vehicle. A smaller rocket will never allow you to do nuclear thermal propulsion. Host: Okay. Let's go back to some of these other configurations. I kind of want to get a sense of the look and feel of this rocket. We sort of talked about it, but to just sort of go into detail. If I was looking at let's just say the Block 1 configuration, the one that's actually going to go for EM-1, what does that look like? How tall is it? What's the weight of it? How much power? David Smith: Right. So, roughly Block 1 and 1B are somewhat similar. Host: Okay. David Smith: They're going to be about the same height as the Saturn V. Host: Oh. David Smith: Which means it's a big rocket, but part of that's because we can't really exceed the vehicle assembly building limitations that are at the Cape. So, you want to make it as big as you can, so you can put as much fuel in it as you can. Basically, the thrust of the Block 1 vehicle which is similar to the Block 1B for the solid rocket motors is about 3.6 million pounds each. Those only fly for about two minutes. Then, you have the core engines. There's four space shuttle era type SSMEs that each have about 512,000 pounds of thrust. You multiply that by four. They operate for about eight minutes. Together, you get about a total thrust of about 8.8 million pounds which gives you an escape velocity of over 22,000 miles an hour. The core stage itself is about 2/3 the length of a football field which is pretty tremendous. One single stage of this vehicle's about 2/3 of a football stadium. And, which is around 212 feet, and the Block 1B ferrying that we talked about, the 8.4-meter diameter ferrying, could accommodate up to three school buses inside its volume. So, that's pretty incredible when you think about the size of what can be lofted in a single vehicle like that. In comparison, the Block 1 vehicle, you know, can throw 70 tons to lower earth orbit where the shuttle can only do 28 tons to low earth orbit. So, it's about three times more powerful than the shuttle. Host: Wow. So, you're talking, you're comparing it to the Saturn V in terms of its size but talking about these efficient engines. What makes, what is it about the engines that's more efficient that's giving you this extra power? David Smith: Well, they, you know, the shuttle engines were rated at 100% thrust originally, and I think they got them up to 109%. So, they actually got them to work 9% more efficiently at the end of the shuttle program. We're taking these up to 11% more thrust, and maybe even 13% more thrust. So, you're really pushing these engines to their limit, and the, it's really coupling their efficiency now at 113% thrust with the reliability of the shuttle system. Host: Unbelievable. The engine itself is called an RS25, right? Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: That's what it's called. And, these are the engines that were on the shuttle. Now, you're pretty much just putting it on the SLS, but it sounds like there's a good reason for that. It's because you've flown the shuttle so many times, improved the capability of it past its, like, total 100% thrust ratio. Now, you're going, you're going past the 100%. So, basically, is like why would we, why would we do something else? We worked so hard on this one. This one is, like, extremely efficient. Why would we, and we can make it even more efficient. That's the logic behind it? Paul Bookout: Well, right. Initially, of course, we have about, I believe, 16 space shuttle main engines or these RS25s left over from the shuttle program. So, we're utilizing the existing hardware to save cost while we're developing the core stage. You know, the first part of the SLS. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: And, as you mentioned, we are updating the engines, getting more capability out of them. So, to that point, we can do four per, so we can do about four launches, four rocket, or four engines on each launch. So, we can do about four launches with the current RS25s. Host: Okay. And, that, is that for one of the later configurations? Paul Bookout: That's correct. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Yeah. Host: Is it the Block 2? Paul Bookout: The Block 2. Host: Block 2? Paul Bookout: Block 2 and beyond. Host: Oh, okay. I see. I see where the whole idea of staging this whole thing comes from, right? Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: You've got, you're using the leftover solid rocket boosters, and you're using this commercial upper stage. And, it's just basically getting to this point where you're going to maximize the efficiency of the rocket. Paul Bookout: Right. Host: Unbelievable. So, three school buses inside of the 1B configuration, right? That's, is it about the weight of three school buses? Is like taking three school buses to space? David Smith: No, it would be, it would be more than that. Host: More than that? David Smith: I mean, nominally, if you went to the moon, we're going to take, the Block 1B could take roughly 40 tons to lunar vicinity which is, which is pretty incredible. Host: Wow, and just in terms of not only, like, quantity, you're talking three school buses. But, also size. David Smith: Yeah, and mass. Host: Also weight. David Smith: Right. Host: You know, you got all of these, all these different components. So, I guess we can kind of focus in on now that we kind of understand the rocket and the evolution of the rocket, let's go to that first, that first test flight, EM-1. We've talked about EM-1 on the podcast before, especially from testing Orion and that. But, really haven't focused in on what is it about, what is it about EM-1 that we're testing SLS for? So, let's start with that. What are we going to test, and I guess we can kind of start with the overview of EM-1 for those who haven't listened to it before. Paul Bookout: Right. So, EM-1 is, of course, going to be the first launch of the SLS rocket. Its primary segments are, of course, solid rocket motors which are a heritage from shuttle hardware. Shuttle had four segments, where EM-1 is going to have five segment motors. Then, of course, the core stage which is heritage off the shuttle external tank but made longer for additional capability of fuel. And, we're also using the main engines from the shuttle program with updated technology and ratings to get more power out of those four rockets on there. So, that makes up the primary lift capability of the SLS rocket. On top of that, we have an interim cryogenic propulsion stage, which, or second stage, upper stage, that we're utilizing from Boeing, existing hardware for EM-1 mission. And then, of course, in addition to adaptors, then there will be the Orion spacecraft, which is the primary mission of EM-1 is to test out the SLS rocket. Then, also, to test out the Orion spacecraft with its trajectory and telemetries and communications. It's going to be on about a 25 1/2 day mission to distant retrograde orbit. That really means just go way past the moon and come back. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: You know, a 25 1/2 day trip. Of course, and, you know, we're doing all this because, again, for the safety aspects. We want to test the vehicle out and Orion spacecraft before we put humans in it. Host: Right. Paul Bookout: So, we want to make sure it's safe, make sure everything works. And, that's that safety aspect, that human rated part of a launch vehicle. Host: So, the human rated part is the Orion can go to 25.5 days, or is this going past what it's expected to possibly operate at? David Smith: I think that's a nominal timeframe for the Orion with crew. So, this is pretty much, I think, its extreme capability. Host: Yeah. David Smith: But, you know, part of it is testing just the systems period. You always, for human rating, you always want to test it far in, you know, far from what the humans will actually experience so that you have a safety factor that's sufficient for human use. Host: Oh, yeah. Because if you're going to be operating on, say, 16 day missions, you don't really want to, okay. Well, let's just test 16. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Host: You really want to go kind of further out and see, all right. Let's see how far this puppy can go. David Smith: And, I think part of this mission's objective is to bring it in at a lunar return velocity to test that heat shield. Host: Yeah. David Smith: You can't do it from low earth orbit. You got to kind of go out and bring it in fast, so. Host: So, what's the difference with EFT-1? That was one of the first test flights we did where we didn't go all the way out to the moon, but we did kind of a, this large apogee so that we can get up to, I think it was some, like 25,000 miles. Or, maybe it was a little slower than that. The difference is between EFT-1 and EM-1. David Smith: I think, I think it was very close to what they would experience in a lunar return, but it's not the actual lunar return. Host: I see. David Smith: Right, so you want to be able to stage it. You want to go out in orbit. You want to test the time that you're out in orbit. That was a very short mission, maybe five or six hours. Now, we're talking 25 days. Well, all the equipment still work when it's, you know, soaked in a cold temperature, hot temperature, all those days. And, now, you're coming in. Will it all work when it comes to the right moment. So, this really puts the pedal to the metal. Host: That's right. So, what is it? I guess the relationship between what are you guys looking at for SLS versus Orion on this particular mission, EM-1? Paul Bookout: So, for SLS, again, we want to test all the systems, make sure they're fully functional. We'll be checking out redundant systems indirectly, of course. And, communications with the vehicle, since it's the first time the vehicle's being launched. We're all, we're talking with the vehicle all the way up. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: So, we want to make sure all those ground systems are ready to support, actually, human flight mission. So, it's just not the vehicle. It's the overall architecture of everything that goes into supporting a launch that we want to verify and check out. Host: Oh, that's right. Now, we're preparing to go into fly deep space missions. So, not only is it, all right, let's test the hardware, but let's test to operational aspect. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Host: Let's test what it's going to take to actually do these missions from the broadest perspective possible. David Smith: And, that includes, even, just bringing the, you know, the pieces are being built all over the place. Host: Yeah. David Smith: And, tested all over the place. So, just bringing them together at the cape and making sure they can be integrated in a safe and timely fashion for launch. That, in itself, is a really important objective. We're talking about such a large rocket. Paul Bookout: Yeah, so this is the first time all those components going to be coming together, and there's going to be hiccups along the way. And, we just need to understand how this vehicle goes together and make sure we do it correctly. Host: So, you say the vehicle's going to be talking to you guys throughout its flight. What is it going to be telling you? What kinds of data are you really looking for that's really going to tell you that this thing is working how we're expecting it to work? David Smith: Well, remember, you're talking to payload guys, so, you know, we're more interested in seeing what the payload's going to experience. Host: Yeah. David Smith: But, think about this. When it launches on the pad, it has an incredible noise issue coming off that mobile launch platform. That's why, if you remember, they had these things called rainbirds, the big sprinklers that start spraying as soon as the engines go to try to mitigate that noise. Host: Right. David Smith: The payload is particularly sensitive to it. Obviously, the vehicle itself is sensitive to that noise as well. So, acoustic mitigation is one of the most important things at launch. Then, we have a thermal issue, right? We go up to max Q, max dynamic pressure. We have a certain heating that is, occurs on the outside of the vehicle. And, before, we got to get through all that heating before we can make sure that the crew is going to be safe, that we can take the shielding off the Orion and so forth. So, we're going to be testing all those environmental concerns as we go forward, and of course, the jettisoning of, you know, the SRBs off the core stage. Then, the ICPS in Orion off the core stage. And then, of course, then, the Orion off the ICPS. All these jettison events, and there's quite a few of them, are extremely important, and we need to test those. Each one has its associated thermal and acoustic issues. So, we're going to test each one of those as it goes forward. Paul Bookout: Since this is the first launch of SLS rocket, we don't really understand the full environments that it's going to be launched in. As David mentioned, the thermal, interior thermal, acoustic, vibration. It's the first time we're going to launch it. So, what we're also have is a lot of instrumentation on this vehicle to be able to measure the actual vibration levels and everything else. So, we can, once we go back to designing and looking at what we call safety factors, reducing those so we can have more margin on the vehicle and means that goes into more mass lift capabilities. So, we're trying to understand the overall characteristics of the vehicle itself. So, in addition, for secondary payload, or payloads in general, we can give them more of an accurate environment that they will see during launch. As in, how much vibration they'll feel, how much thermal environments that they'll see. So, when they start designing their payloads for, to run the ride on this vehicle, they can have more of an accurate environment. And, maybe not have, make it a lot more efficient design. Host: Okay. So, then, what data are you going off of now based on, you guess you haven't launched the SLS. So, what are you assuming, or where are you getting the data from? David Smith: We have, we started off with assuming, at least for the payloads, that we would provide an ELV, and expendable launch vehicle class environment. Host: Okay. David Smith: So, if you've flown on Atlas or Delta, you should expect nothing worse than that. Host: Okay. David Smith: That's our starting point. Host: Oh, okay. David Smith: Now, what Paul's going into is we're going to try to characterize is that really true? So, the first flight's important. Are we in? Are we out? What do we have to do? Is there more foam that you got to put in the payload section to mitigate the noise? That's what we're trying to figure out. But, we should be within an ELV class is what we're projecting right now. Host: Okay. So, then, I'm assuming you're going to have some actual science on board EM-1, right? Because you're testing, you're testing the structure of EM-1. You're testing the rocket. But then, you have this mission. Why not take advantage of it? Is there anything else going on the EM-1? Paul Bookout: Oh, definitely. Host: Okay, good. Paul Bookout: Yes. We have, we'll have 13 secondary payloads that we're going to be launching on EM-1. Host: Wow. Paul Bookout: That'll, that is located in the Orion stage adapter. That's the segment that connects the SLS rocket to the Orion spacecraft. So, it's a small ring about five feet high. About 18 or so feet in diameter. And, along the inner circumference of that is where we are mounting these 13 secondary payloads. Host: Oh, so I guess they have to be kind of small, right? That's not a lot of space compared to the, what's in the ferrying. Paul Bookout: Correct. So, on EM-1, we have 13 CubeSats. CubeSats are defined as a, we call a 1U, which is about ten by ten by ten-centimeter cube. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: So, what we're having on EM-1 is allowing them to go up to what we call a 6U. So, it's a CubeSat that's about the, a little bit larger than the size of a shoebox, a large shoebox. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: And, that's kind of the dimensions of these 6U CubeSats that we're having on EM-1. David Smith: Which is the most common CubeSat, really, today, right? Paul Bookout: Correct. Exactly. So, we have multiple missions that these payloads are going to be doing. So, we've got one destination is to the moon. We have Lunar Flashlight which is out of Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and their primary mission is to search for ice deposits and resources on the moon using a laser. Host: Ooh. Paul Bookout: Okay. And, the second one is Lunar IceCube which is Morehead State University up in Kentucky. And, they're going to also be searching for water of all forms and volatiles on the moon using infrared spectrometer. These are some big words that I can't even define, so. [ Laughter ] LunaH-Map is from Arizona State University, and they're going to be creating high fidelity map of near surface hydrogen in craters on the moon. Lunar IR is from Lockheed Martin in Colorado, and they're going to be performing advanced infrared imagery of lunar surface. We've got one that's going to the sun facility, and it's called CuSP. It's from Southwest Research Institute here in Texas, and it's going to be measuring particles and magnetic fields of space weather between us and the sun. We have one that's going around the Earth. It's called EQUULEUS. It's a Japanese payload, and we actually have three international payloads on this mission. And, I'll touch on those others. Host: Awesome. Paul Bookout: So, again, EQUULEUS is from JAXA. It's the University of Tokyo supporting that. I mean, it's imaging the Earth's plasma sphere for a better understanding of Earth radiation environment. And also, it's going to be initially on the far side of the moon and detecting any meteor crater flashes that may impact the far side of the moon. Host: Wow. Paul Bookout: So, they'll be out there for about two months or so and just hopefully they'll be able to catch something. Some of the other missions are BioSentinel. It's from Ames Research Center, and they're going to be using baker's yeast to see the effects of radiation on actual live items, you know, live yeast. And, then, ArgoMoon, which is the European Space Agency, is built in Italy. It's going to be observing the interim cryogenic propulsion stage. That's upper stage is going to be deployed. Look at that upper stage, and then it's going to go on some additional missions. And, it's going to look at the upper stage to see what kind of effects the environment has during liftoff on the upper stage. Because, until now, we, once the upper stage is launched, we usually don't get a chance to look the conditions of that. This will give us some feedback and see what the upper stage has went through, if there's any damage or anything. Host: It sounds like these CubeSats are all over the place. Paul Bookout: Yes. Yeah. I've got a couple more here. Host: Oh, really. Paul Bookout: I haven't got to my two favorite yet. So. Host: Oh, we're standing by. Paul Bookout: Okay. Centennial Challenge. That was a challenge that NASA set up called Cube Quest, and it's to help develop communications for these smaller CubeSats. There's two challenges. One was a lunar challenge to around the lunar surface and for longevity. And, the other one was a deep space mission which was a CubeSat, as it says, going out into deep space to see how far and long and what burst rates and clarity that you can have in your signals. So, there's total prizes for everything through all the development and final missions. It's up to $5 million. Host: Wow. Paul Bookout: So, that's a lot of money. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: Spread out over those. So, you did, you asked what my two favorite payloads are. Host: Oh, yeah. Paul Bookout: Let me tell you. One of them is NEA Scout. That's developed at Marshall Spaceflight Center. What's unique about that is NEA Scout means Near Earth Asteroid. So, they're going to be going to a near earth asteroid. But, the exciting thing about it is that they're going to be using solar cell to get there for their propulsion system. So, this is the first time a solar cell will be used to, for propulsion out into deep space. There have been other missions in low earth orbit to check out the technology and feasibility of solar cells, but this is the first time going out to deep space. And, for a CubeSat that's a little bit larger than a shoebox, it will be deploying the cell that will be 40 by 40 feet. Host: Whoa. Paul Bookout: So, that's huge. Host: Wait, and a little CubeSat. Paul Bookout: In a little CubeSat. Host: And, it deploys a 40 foot. Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: Oh, wow. Paul Bookout: Yeah, so that solar cell is very thin material. Host: Yeah. It must be to fold up into, like, this ten-centimeter cube thing. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Host: So, so, the solar. Paul Bookout: You said ten centimeters. 6U CubeSat is 10 by 20 by 30. Host: Oh, because this is 6U. Paul Bookout: 6U, correct. Host: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So, solar sails, though, this is, it basically unfurls this 40-foot sail, and is it the one where the high-power laser that pushes it? Paul Bookout: No. Paul Bookout: That's different. Paul Bookout: This is going to ride the solar winds. Paul Bookout: Ride the solar winds. Paul Bookout: Solar particles will be pushing it along. It'll do actually a fly by the near-earth asteroid as it comes up. It'll be taking images all the way around as it passes. Host: Okay. Wow. Paul Bookout: So, and my ultimate favorite one is. Host: Yeah, we didn't get the last one. Paul Bookout: Is actually the one that I'm the Secondary Payload Integration Manager for. Host: Oh. Paul Bookout: So, it's one of my CubeSats. Host: So, it's an unbiased favorite, then. Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Yeah, still. It's called OMOTENASHI. It's another Japanese CubeSat. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: And, their mission is to land on the moon. Host: Oh. Paul Bookout: Can you imagine a small little CubeSat, you know, a little bit larger than a shoebox, land on the moon? Of course, and the big thing about it is that they're going to be using a solid rocket motor to slow down to be able to land on the moon. So, that's one of the things on EM-1 that we're offering that previous commercial launch vehicles and that don't offer propulsion systems for secondary payload to be able to utilize that. That's one thing EM-1 and SLS is allowing. So, that's a huge deal. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: For those. So, if OMOTENASHI is successful at landing on the moon, they'll be the fourth nation in the world to have actually land and do some science on the moon. Host: Wow. Paul Bookout: You know. Host: So, what kind of science? Paul Bookout: Well, because, again, they're still a small payload, so they can't get large science instruments to the moon, when they land, actually land on the moon, all that will be left is about the size of a sandwich box. Because they have to get rid of all the extra weight to be able to slow down enough to be able to land. And, they'll probably so some soil impact measurements, as in how soft vibration, shock, as it's landing on the moon. And, I, so, and they're only going to be able to do it for about 30 minutes or so. Again, because of the size, what we're limiting them to. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: They can't get the mechanics, orbital mechanics and velocities and everything. I'm sorry. Host: So, it's, it's kind of general on where you can land, then? It's just like, it's just going to land. It's not going to land in a targeted spot, I guess? Paul Bookout: Correct. They know the general vicinity where it's going to land. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: But, they can't have ultimate control, like any of the other landers that have larger systems, propulsion systems, to slow them down. So, they would be actually, once the solar motor fires, they'll still be traveling at about 60 miles an hour when they impact the moon. So, they're going to inflate these impact balloons to actually bounce, similar to what they've done on Mars, some of the Mars Rovers. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: So, it'll come and impact moon and bounce and then finally rest on the moon. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: And, do about 30 minutes of impact soil measurements. Host: Wow. How would that be, though? I'm imagining, I mean, landing at 60 miles an hour. That's, you know. Paul Bookout: Well. Host: That's not slow, but at the same time, it's the moon, right? It's. Paul Bookout: Right. Yes, but then again, you're not going directly into it. You know, you're coming in at an angle, too. Host: At an angle. Paul Bookout: So, it's not a fully impact. Host: Okay. Great. Paul Bookout: Direct impact, so. Host: So, you got all these CubeSats going around the Earth, around the upper stage, around the moon, on the moon, to deep space. Where do you deploy, how does that work? Where do you deploy everything? It's not just like you just let everything go at all. It has to be pretty controlled because each one has a very specific mission. Paul Bookout: Right. We've created what we call bus stops. Host: Oh. Paul Bookout: They're basically different aspects of the trajectory of the upper stage. So, the first bus stop is when you're in between the two radiation belts or Van Allen belts. Bus stop two is when you've passed all the radiation belts. Bus stop three is half way between the Earth and the moon. Bus stop four is the closest proximity to the moon, and bus stop five is when you're going into a heliosynchronous or sun orbit. And, that's where the upper stage will be disposed into the sun orbit. So, when a payload says, "Hey, I want to get off at 200,000 miles away from the Earth." Well, okay, where is that exactly? So, that's why we kind of created these bus stops. Host: I see. Paul Bookout: They can get off anywhere they want to, but it helps us relate to the areas where they want off. So, most of them are wanting off at stop one. About seven or eight of them. Because they need to get out and start changing their trajectory as soon as possible. Again, we're offering propulsion systems, but they're not large enough to have really change their directions further on. So, a little change at first makes a big change later. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: So, they want to get off to be able to do that, make those little changes. Most of the payloads that are going to lunar orbit, what they're wanting to do is slow down because the ICPS, you know, is launching Orion into this distant retrograde orbit. And, you know, way past the moon. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: So, it has a lot of velocity heading that way, and if the payloads don't slow down, they'll just go flying past the moon. The moon can't, doesn't have enough gravity to pull them back into an orbit. And, some of them, even though they are going to the moon, they'll actually fly past the moon, and it may take a month or so for them to come back, to slow down enough to come back and get hooked into the moon's gravity and start orbiting the moon. Host: Oh, wow. Paul Bookout: So, it's not a direct flight into the moon orbit, just because they don't have the propulsion systems large enough to be able to do that. Host: So, is it fair to say they're all going to be in a very similar orbit, or are they all going to kind of go their respective directions? Paul Bookout: They're going to do their respective ways. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Some of them wants to do in the crater, so they're going to be going to the pole system, up to the poles to look see if there's ice up in there. And, some of them will just be doing a regular geosynchronous type of orbit. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Type thing. Host: All right. Paul Bookout: We talked about where these, what the payloads are and where they're going to want to get off. To be able to allow them to get off, again, we have to have a deployment system where, again, some of the primary requirements for EM-1 was or SLS is to do no harm and to have minimal impact to the vehicle. Host: Yes. Paul Bookout: Well, to do that latter one, what we've come up with a system is that we will receive an energy, the avionics unit for deploying the secondary payloads will receive an energy pulse for, from Orion. Or, I'm sorry. Will receive an energy pulse from the upper stage once Orion has already left and the upper stage has gone through its disposal maneuvers. That means burning off extra fuel and everything making it safe. Right before it shuts down, it will turn on the avionics unit for deploying the secondary payloads. Then, the upper stage turns off. So, we wake up, and we've got our own internal battery system. And, each payload is inside of a dispenser, and so, the dispenser operates as the, has a spring-loaded lid. And, the payloads inside are installed by compressing the spring. So, when the, when it's time for that particular payload to be deployed, we get an energy pulse from the avionics unit sent to the dispenser to open the door. The door flings open, and then the secondary payload is pushed out by springs. So, that's how they're deployed. Host: Okay. So, like a, so, like an SLS jack in the box. [laughter] Paul Bookout: If you will. Host: That's what I'm imagining. Obviously, it's going to shoot out. Paul Bookout: We have pulled those analogies before, but I'll let you state it. Host: And then, I guess there's, you get this power pulse that's going to, I guess, be directed to whatever seven is going to be part of bus stop one, and whatever the next ones for bus stop two. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: And, they'll be deployed, if there's multiple at a particular bus stop, they'll be deployed a minute or two away from each other, after each other because we don't want to be able to deploy one and then deploy another one right behind it. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: And then, they have recontact. Host: So, I'm trying to imagine the way everything is situated in my head, and at this part of the flight when you're starting to deploy these secondary payloads, what does, what does the rocket, I guess, or what does the piece that's actually flying, what does it look like? I guess you have Orion and then there's this deployment system, and then there's, is it the upper stage behind it? Paul Bookout: Okay. So, once we've launched. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: After about two minutes, the solar rocket motors are. David Smith: Jettisoned. Paul Bookout: Jettisoned. And then, the core stage lifts the rest of the vehicle up into orbit. And, after that time, when the core stage is spent, then it'll be jettisoned. And then, you'll have your upper stage and your Orion spacecraft which of course the secondary payloads are still in part of that. And then, then, it'll go into what they call a translunar injection that's basically the upper stage will ignite and put Orion into its mission profile going past the moon. Host: So, at this point, right before it ignites, it's still in, I guess, Earth orbit, and the translunar injection gets it to the moon. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: Okay. Paul Bookout: Okay. So, once the upper stage has spent its fuel, the Orion spacecraft will separate, okay? From the upper stage. So, it'll go through on to its mission. And then, about 30 minutes later, 20, 30 minutes later, the secondary payloads will start their deployment. Host: I see. Okay. Paul Bookout: So, Orion is well away and actually speeding faster away from the upper stage. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: The upper stage, once it goes through its disposal maneuver, is actually flying kind of, you would say, backwards, engine first, towards the moon. Host: Oh. Paul Bookout: So, the secondary payloads will be ejected out the other direction. So. Host: Okay. So, so. Paul Bookout: So, when they're deployed, the ICPS won't run back into them. Host: That's right. Paul Bookout: Okay. So, they'll be deployed in the other direction. Host: But, now, Orion is going in, it's doing its own thing. Paul Bookout: Correct. Host: Because it did its job. It delivered Orion. That's the primary payload. Now, it's off. But, the secondary payloads are still part of this upper stage. They haven't gone with Orion. They're totally separate. Paul Bookout: Correct. They have their own. Host: So, it's like, they're kind of doing, they're going. Paul Bookout: Yeah. Host: Different ways. Interesting. Paul Bookout: Yeah, they have their own mission profiles going in all different directions. Host: Okay. Okay. I don't know why that wasn't clear to me before but thank you. All right. So, I guess kind of backing up from there, you're talking about the solid rocket boosters are disposed. The core stage is disposed. Where are all these pieces going? Paul Bookout: Okay. Depending on their mission profile, all the secondary payloads are going to end of missions at different places. Some of them will be actually crashing into the moon, and that's common where the other countries and their lunar missions depositing on the moon. Some will, one or two will burn up in Earth's atmosphere as it comes back. Some of the other ones that are going out into deep space, of course, just keep going. The CuSP, which is going to solar. I'm sorry. CuSP, which is going to the sun's vicinity will just stay out there and eventually be pulled into the sun. Host: Okay. Host: So, that's all the secondary payloads. Paul Bookout: Correct. And, for each mission, each payload that's launched on U.S. rockets, they all have to have an end of mission plan. What are they going to do to end their mission, not just to be left out there as space junk. Because that's, we're having, sorry. We're starting to have a lot of problems with, as you know, there's a lot of space junk around Earth. Host: Oh, yeah. Paul Bookout: And, you don't want that same situation around other planets, too. Host: That's fair. That's fair. And, that's why, that's part of the, I mean, this is going back, but Cassini, right? That was the whole. It did its thing, and instead of just letting it be. It had a controlled entry into Saturn so that it didn't contaminate any other. Paul Bookout: Exactly. Yes. Host: Any other bodies. Yes, yes, of course. Paul Bookout: And, it doesn't matter what size you are. Host: Yeah. Paul Bookout: Even these small CubeSats have to have an end of mission. Host: Have to have an end of mission. Paul Bookout: Yes. Host: Awesome. But, I did want to go back to some of the earlier parts of the mission, right after launch. You know, you're talking about solid rocket boosters separating being. David Smith: Those go into the ocean. Host: Ocean? Okay. David Smith: Still, but they're not recovered this time. Host: Oh, okay. David Smith: You know, for shuttle, they were recovered. This time, it's too difficult. They're too large. So, they're just going to sink. Host: Okay. [00:48:19] David Smith: The external tank is, it can't go into orbit, so it's kind of lofted in such a way that it'll break up over the Indian Ocean safely. Host: Ah. David Smith: So, it's a very large tank. You know, this is much larger than the external tank of shuttle, so it's very important that it break up safely. So, that's, that's why you need the upper stage to actually bring the payload up into a circular orbit around the Earth. Otherwise, the payload would go down with the core module as well. Host: Okay. Okay. And, what about the, I guess, the upper stage. You said it's going to be doing this deployment, but then, after it deploys [inaudible]. David Smith: It's heliocentric. It goes into a sun, heliocentric disposal. Host: Sun heliocentric disposal. David Smith: So, it kind of goes away, and we should, hopefully, not see it again. Host: Okay. All right. That's a very nice summary of EM-1, and I feel like there's so much more to talk about. I kind of wanted to get into, you know, where are we now with SLS, all the history of it. So, I think we should take a break and just sort of let this one be Episode 41. We'll come back, and we'll do Episode 42 and just sort of get into the process behind building the SLS and then the journeys of where it's going to go and beyond. So, guys, thank you so much for coming on. We'll take a break. I'll see you in a few minutes. And, for everyone else, I guess we'll see you for the next episode. David Smith: All right. David Smith: Great, thank you. Look forward to it. Paul Bookout: Thank you. [ Music ] Houston, go ahead. [ Inaudible Comment ] [inaudible] for all mankind. Not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Welcome to space [echo]. Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, the best places to follow development and delivery of the rocket as we test the major components and deliver it piece by piece to the Kennedy Space Center are on the social media channels on the web for the Space Launch System. So, first the website. You can go to www.nasa.gov/ guess what? SLS. That's where you can get the latest, the greatest on the Space Launch System. On Twitter, it's @nasa underscore SLS. On Facebook, it's NASASLS, that's one word. Or, this is one of the things that actually David Smith wrote. You can actually search SLS Mission Planner's Guide. And, it's a document that you can find on the web. You can download it, and it actually has a lot of great information on just the whole scope of the Space Launch System. We're really looking forward to the first launch of SLS and Orion from the Kennedy in a couple years. Sounds like we're well on our way to the pad, and we'll be launching astronauts back to the moon in just a few short years. If you have questions on SLS and its development, use the hashtag asknasa on your favorite platform. Just go to the Johnson accounts. Those are the ones we look at. The NASA Johnson Space Center accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. You can send an idea or a question, and we'll make sure to mention it's for, or just make sure to mention it's for Houston, We Have a Podcast, and we'll bring it up in a later episode. Or, maybe address it in an entire episode. The whole episode will be dedicated to the question. Who knows? So, this podcast was recorded on March 20, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Rachel Craft, Laura Reshawn [assumed spelling], Kelly Humphries, Pat Ryan, Tyler Martin, Bev Perry, and all the folks at the Marshall Spaceflight Center for coming on to help to put this together. Thanks again to Dr. Paul Bookout and Mr. David Smith for coming on the show. We'll be back next week with part two.

A Collison nebulizer as an ion source for mass spectrometry analysis

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Pervukhin, V. V.; Sheven', D. G.; Kolomiets, Yu. N.

2014-12-01

It is proposed to use a Collison nebulizer as a source of ionization for mass-spectrometry with ionization at atmospheric pressure. This source does not require an electric voltage, radioactive sources, heaters, or liquid pumps. It is shown that the number of ions produced by the Collison nebulizer is ten times greater than the quantity of ions produced by the 63Ni radioactive source and three to four times greater than the number of ions produced with sonic ionization devices.

Information needs, sources, and decision-making by hatching egg and broiler chicken producers: A qualitative study in Alberta, Canada.

PubMed

Anholt, R Michele; Russell, Margaret; Inglis, Tom; Mitevski, Darko; Hall, David

2017-05-01

Understanding the sources and use of information from hatching egg and broiler chicken producers, their constraints, and unmet information needs can help define future research agendas. This report presents the results from a qualitative study using interviews of 11 hatching egg producers and 12 broiler producers in Alberta, Canada. Patterns were reported and described using thematic analysis. Producers recognized that there were numerous sources of information available to them for managing disease in their flocks. Complex disease issues such as early mortality were discussed, but many producers did not believe they had any influence over the outcomes and did not see a benefit from additional information to improve outcomes. Producers described their experience, trust in the information source, and the usefulness of the information for decision-making as necessary for information uptake.

Method for producing a borohydride

DOEpatents

Kong, Peter C [Idaho Falls, ID

2008-09-02

A method for producing a borohydride is described and which includes the steps of providing a source of borate; providing a material which chemically reduces the source of the borate to produce a borohydride; and reacting the source of borate and the material by supplying heat at a temperature which substantially effects the production of the borohydride.

Method for producing a borohydride

DOEpatents

Kong, Peter C.

2010-06-22

A method for producing a borohydride is described that includes the steps of providing a source of borate; providing a material that chemically reduces the source of the borate to produce a borohydride; and reacting the source of the borate and the material by supplying heat at a temperature that substantially effects the production of the borohydride.

Information needs, sources, and decision-making by hatching egg and broiler chicken producers: A qualitative study in Alberta, Canada

PubMed Central

Anholt, R. Michele; Russell, Margaret; Inglis, Tom; Mitevski, Darko; Hall, David

2017-01-01

Understanding the sources and use of information from hatching egg and broiler chicken producers, their constraints, and unmet information needs can help define future research agendas. This report presents the results from a qualitative study using interviews of 11 hatching egg producers and 12 broiler producers in Alberta, Canada. Patterns were reported and described using thematic analysis. Producers recognized that there were numerous sources of information available to them for managing disease in their flocks. Complex disease issues such as early mortality were discussed, but many producers did not believe they had any influence over the outcomes and did not see a benefit from additional information to improve outcomes. Producers described their experience, trust in the information source, and the usefulness of the information for decision-making as necessary for information uptake. PMID:28487592

Changes in the Use of Precision Farming Information Sources among Cotton Farmers and Implications for Extension

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Edge, Brittani; Velandia, Margarita; Lambert, Dayton M.; Roberts, Roland K.; Larson, James A.; English, Burton C.; Boyer, Christopher; Rejesus, Roderick; Mishra, Ashok

2017-01-01

Using information from precision farmer surveys conducted in the southern United States in 2005 and 2013, we evaluated changes in the use of precision farming information sources among cotton producers. Although Extension remains an important source for producers interested in precision farming information, the percentage of cotton producers using…

Salmonellosis outbreaks in the United States due to fresh produce: sources and potential intervention measures.

PubMed

Hanning, Irene B; Nutt, J D; Ricke, Steven C

2009-01-01

Foodborne Salmonella spp. is a leading cause of foodborne illness in the United States each year. Traditionally, most cases of salmonellosis were thought to originate from meat and poultry products. However, an increasing number of salmonellosis outbreaks are occurring as a result of contaminated produce. Several produce items specifically have been identified in outbreaks, and the ability of Salmonella to attach or internalize into vegetables and fruits may be factors that make these produce items more likely to be sources of Salmonella. In addition, environmental factors including contaminated water sources used to irrigate and wash produce crops have been implicated in a large number of outbreaks. Salmonella is carried by both domesticated and wild animals and can contaminate freshwater by direct or indirect contact. In some cases, direct contact of produce or seeds with contaminated manure or animal wastes can lead to contaminated crops. This review examines outbreaks of Salmonella due to contaminated produce, the potential sources of Salmonella, and possible control measures to prevent contamination of produce.

Characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from sound sources

DOEpatents

Holzrichter, John F [Berkeley, CA; Ng, Lawrence C [Danville, CA

2007-03-13

A system for characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate and animate sound sources. Electromagnetic sensors monitor excitation sources in sound producing systems, such as animate sound sources such as the human voice, or from machines, musical instruments, and various other structures. Acoustical output from these sound producing systems is also monitored. From such information, a transfer function characterizing the sound producing system is generated. From the transfer function, acoustical output from the sound producing system may be synthesized or canceled. The systems disclosed enable accurate calculation of transfer functions relating specific excitations to specific acoustical outputs. Knowledge of such signals and functions can be used to effect various sound replication, sound source identification, and sound cancellation applications.

Method of making AlInSb by metal-organic chemical vapor deposition

DOEpatents

Biefeld, Robert M.; Allerman, Andrew A.; Baucom, Kevin C.

2000-01-01

A method for producing aluminum-indium-antimony materials by metal-organic chemical vapor deposition (MOCVD). This invention provides a method of producing Al.sub.X In.sub.1-x Sb crystalline materials by MOCVD wherein an Al source material, an In source material and an Sb source material are supplied as a gas to a heated substrate in a chamber, said Al source material, In source material, and Sb source material decomposing at least partially below 525.degree. C. to produce Al.sub.x In.sub.1-x Sb crystalline materials wherein x is greater than 0.002 and less than one.

40 CFR 98.160 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Hydrogen Production § 98.160 Definition of the source category. (a) A hydrogen production source category consists of facilities that produce hydrogen gas sold as a product to other entities. (b) This source category comprises process units that produce hydrogen by...

40 CFR 98.160 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Hydrogen Production § 98.160 Definition of the source category. (a) A hydrogen production source category consists of facilities that produce hydrogen gas sold as a product to other entities. (b) This source category comprises process units that produce hydrogen by...

40 CFR 98.160 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Hydrogen Production § 98.160 Definition of the source category. (a) A hydrogen production source category consists of facilities that produce hydrogen gas sold as a product to other entities. (b) This source category comprises process units that produce hydrogen by...

40 CFR 98.160 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Hydrogen Production § 98.160 Definition of the source category. (a) A hydrogen production source category consists of facilities that produce hydrogen gas sold as a product to other entities. (b) This source category comprises process units that produce hydrogen by...

40 CFR 98.160 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Hydrogen Production § 98.160 Definition of the source category. (a) A hydrogen production source category consists of facilities that produce hydrogen gas sold as a product to other entities. (b) This source category comprises process units that produce hydrogen by...

Ultra-short ion and neutron pulse production

DOEpatents

Leung, Ka-Ngo; Barletta, William A.; Kwan, Joe W.

2006-01-10

An ion source has an extraction system configured to produce ultra-short ion pulses, i.e. pulses with pulse width of about 1 .mu.s or less, and a neutron source based on the ion source produces correspondingly ultra-short neutron pulses. To form a neutron source, a neutron generating target is positioned to receive an accelerated extracted ion beam from the ion source. To produce the ultra-short ion or neutron pulses, the apertures in the extraction system of the ion source are suitably sized to prevent ion leakage, the electrodes are suitably spaced, and the extraction voltage is controlled. The ion beam current leaving the source is regulated by applying ultra-short voltage pulses of a suitable voltage on the extraction electrode.

Indirect detection of radiation sources through direct detection of radiolysis products

DOEpatents

Farmer, Joseph C [Tracy, CA; Fischer, Larry E [Los Gatos, CA; Felter, Thomas E [Livermore, CA

2010-04-20

A system for indirectly detecting a radiation source by directly detecting radiolytic products. The radiation source emits radiation and the radiation produces the radiolytic products. A fluid is positioned to receive the radiation from the radiation source. When the fluid is irradiated, radiolytic products are produced. By directly detecting the radiolytic products, the radiation source is detected.

Sources and contamination routes of microbial pathogens to fresh produce during field cultivation: A review.

PubMed

Alegbeleye, Oluwadara Oluwaseun; Singleton, Ian; Sant'Ana, Anderson S

2018-08-01

Foodborne illness resulting from the consumption of contaminated fresh produce is a common phenomenon and has severe effects on human health together with severe economic and social impacts. The implications of foodborne diseases associated with fresh produce have urged research into the numerous ways and mechanisms through which pathogens may gain access to produce, thereby compromising microbiological safety. This review provides a background on the various sources and pathways through which pathogenic bacteria contaminate fresh produce; the survival and proliferation of pathogens on fresh produce while growing and potential methods to reduce microbial contamination before harvest. Some of the established bacterial contamination sources include contaminated manure, irrigation water, soil, livestock/ wildlife, and numerous factors influence the incidence, fate, transport, survival and proliferation of pathogens in the wide variety of sources where they are found. Once pathogenic bacteria have been introduced into the growing environment, they can colonize and persist on fresh produce using a variety of mechanisms. Overall, microbiological hazards are significant; therefore, ways to reduce sources of contamination and a deeper understanding of pathogen survival and growth on fresh produce in the field are required to reduce risk to human health and the associated economic consequences. Copyright © 2018 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

The generation of gravitational waves. I - Weak-field sources

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Thorne, K. S.; Kovacs, S. J.

1975-01-01

This paper derives and summarizes a 'plug-in-and-grind' formalism for calculating the gravitational waves emitted by any system with weak internal gravitational fields. If the internal fields have negligible influence on the system's motions, the formalism reduces to standard 'linearized theory'. Independent of the effects of gravity on the motions, the formalism reduces to the standard 'quadrupole-moment formalism' if the motions are slow and internal stresses are weak. In the general case, the formalism expresses the radiation in terms of a retarded Green's function for slightly curved spacetime and breaks the Green's function integral into five easily understood pieces: direct radiation, produced directly by the motions of the source; whump radiation, produced by the 'gravitational stresses' of the source; transition radiation, produced by a time-changing time delay ('Shapiro effect') in the propagation of the nonradiative 1/r field of the source; focusing radiation, produced when one portion of the source focuses, in a time-dependent way, the nonradiative field of another portion of the source; and tail radiation, produced by 'back-scatter' of the nonradiative field in regions of focusing.

The generation of gravitational waves. 1. Weak-field sources: A plug-in-and-grind formalism

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Thorne, K. S.; Kovacs, S. J.

1974-01-01

A plug-in-and-grind formalism is derived for calculating the gravitational waves emitted by any system with weak internal gravitational fields. If the internal fields have negligible influence on the system's motions, then the formalism reduces to standard linearized theory. Whether or not gravity affects the motions, if the motions are slow and internal stresses are weak, then the new formalism reduces to the standard quadrupole-moment formalism. In the general case the new formalism expresses the radiation in terms of a retarded Green's function for slightly curved spacetime, and then breaks the Green's-function integral into five easily understood pieces: direct radiation, produced directly by the motions of the sources; whump radiation, produced by the the gravitational stresses of the source; transition radiation, produced by a time-changing time delay (Shapiro effect) in the propagation of the nonradiative, 1/r field of the source; focussing radiation produced when one portion of the source focusses, in a time-dependent way, the nonradiative field of another portion of the source, and tail radiation, produced by backscatter of the nonradiative field in regions of focussing.

Laser interlock system

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Woodruff, Steven D; Mcintyre, Dustin L

2015-01-13

A method and device for providing a laser interlock having a first optical source, a first beam splitter, a second optical source, a detector, an interlock control system, and a means for producing dangerous optical energy. The first beam splitter is optically connected to the first optical source, the first detector and the second optical source. The detector is connected to the interlock control system. The interlock control system is connected to the means for producing dangerous optical energy and configured to terminate its optical energy production upon the detection of optical energy at the detector from the second opticalmore » source below a predetermined detector threshold. The second optical source produces an optical energy in response to optical energy from the first optical source. The optical energy from the second optical source has a different wavelength, polarization, modulation or combination thereof from the optical energy of the first optical source.« less

PULSED ION SOURCE

DOEpatents

Ford, F.C.; Ruff, J.W.; Zizzo, S.G.; Cook, B.

1958-11-11

An ion source is described adapted for pulsed operation and producing copious quantities of ions with a particular ion egress geometry. The particular source construction comprises a conical member having a conducting surface formed of a metal with a gas occladed therein and narrow non-conducting portions hereon dividing the conducting surface. A high voltage pulse is applied across the conducting surface or producing a discharge across the surface. After the gas ions have been produced by the discharge, the ions are drawn from the source in a diverging conical beam by a specially constructed accelerating electrode.

Accurate Modeling of Ionospheric Electromagnetic Fields Generated by a Low-Altitude VLF Transmitter

DTIC Science & Technology

2007-08-31

latitude) for 3 different grid spacings. 14 8. Low-altitude fields produced by a 10-kHz source computed using the FD and TD codes. The agreement is...excellent, validating the new FD code. 16 9. High-altitude fields produced by a 10-kHz source computed using the FD and TD codes. The agreement is...again excellent. 17 10. Low-altitude fields produced by a 20-k.Hz source computed using the FD and TD codes. 17 11. High-altitude fields produced

Improved Multiple-Species Cyclotron Ion Source

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Soli, George A.; Nichols, Donald K.

1990-01-01

Use of pure isotope 86Kr instead of natural krypton in multiple-species ion source enables source to produce krypton ions separated from argon ions by tuning cylcotron with which source used. Addition of capability to produce and separate krypton ions at kinetic energies of 150 to 400 MeV necessary for simulation of worst-case ions occurring in outer space.

Emissions Models and Other Methods to Produce Emission Inventories

EPA Pesticide Factsheets

An emissions inventory is a summary or forecast of the emissions produced by a group of sources in a given time period. Inventories of air pollution from mobile sources are often produced by models such as the MOtor Vehicle Emission Simulator (MOVES).

Comparison of sound reproduction using higher order loudspeakers and equivalent line arrays in free-field conditions.

PubMed

Poletti, Mark A; Betlehem, Terence; Abhayapala, Thushara D

2014-07-01

Higher order sound sources of Nth order can radiate sound with 2N + 1 orthogonal radiation patterns, which can be represented as phase modes or, equivalently, amplitude modes. This paper shows that each phase mode response produces a spiral wave front with a different spiral rate, and therefore a different direction of arrival of sound. Hence, for a given receiver position a higher order source is equivalent to a linear array of 2N + 1 monopole sources. This interpretation suggests performance similar to a circular array of higher order sources can be produced by an array of sources, each of which consists of a line array having monopoles at the apparent source locations of the corresponding phase modes. Simulations of higher order arrays and arrays of equivalent line sources are presented. It is shown that the interior fields produced by the two arrays are essentially the same, but that the exterior fields differ because the higher order sources produces different equivalent source locations for field positions outside the array. This work provides an explanation of the fact that an array of L Nth order sources can reproduce sound fields whose accuracy approaches the performance of (2N + 1)L monopoles.

Production of succinic acid from sugarcane molasses supplemented with a mixture of corn steep liquor powder and peanut meal as nitrogen sources by Actinobacillus succinogenes.

PubMed

Shen, N; Qin, Y; Wang, Q; Liao, S; Zhu, J; Zhu, Q; Mi, H; Adhikari, B; Wei, Y; Huang, R

2015-06-01

The potential of using corn steep liquor powder (CSLP), peanut meal (PM), soybean meal (SM), cotton meal (CM) and urea as the substitute of yeast extract (YE) as the nitrogen source was investigated for producing succinic acid (SA). Actinobacillus succinogenes GXAS137 was used as the fermenting bacterium and sugarcane molasses was used as the main substrate. None of these materials were able to produce SA as high as YE did. The CSLP could still be considered as a feasible and inexpensive alternate for YE as the yield of SA produced using CSLP was second only to the yield of SA obtained by YE. The use of CSLP-PM mixed formulation (CSLP to PM ratio = 2·6) as nitrogen source produced SA up to 59·2 g l(-1) with a productivity of 1·2 g l(-1) h(-1). A batch fermentation using a stirred bioreactor produced up to 60·7 g l(-1) of SA at the same formulation. Fed-batch fermentation that minimized the substrate inhibition produced 64·7 g l(-1) SA. These results suggest that sugarcane molasses supplemented with a mixture of CSLP and PM as the nitrogen source could be used to produce SA more economically using A. succinogenes. Significance and impact of the study: Succinic acid (SA) is commonly used as a platform chemical to produce a number of high value derivatives. Yeast extract (YE) is used as a nitrogen source to produce SA. The high cost of YE is currently the limiting factor for industrial production of SA. This study reports the use of a mixture of corn steep liquor powder (CSLP) and peanut meal (PM) as an inexpensive nitrogen source to substitute YE. The results showed that this CSLP-PM mixed formulation can be used as an effective and economic nitrogen source for the production of SA. © 2015 The Society for Applied Microbiology.

10 CFR 30.3 - Activities requiring license.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-01-01

... that possesses and uses accelerator-produced radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226 for...-produced radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226 for which a specific license is required in... section, all other licensees, who possess and use accelerator-produced radioactive material or discrete...

System and method for characterizing synthesizing and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate sound sources

DOEpatents

Holzrichter, John F.; Burnett, Greg C.; Ng, Lawrence C.

2003-01-01

A system and method for characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate sound sources is disclosed. Propagating wave electromagnetic sensors monitor excitation sources in sound producing systems, such as machines, musical instruments, and various other structures. Acoustical output from these sound producing systems is also monitored. From such information, a transfer function characterizing the sound producing system is generated. From the transfer function, acoustical output from the sound producing system may be synthesized or canceled. The methods disclosed enable accurate calculation of matched transfer functions relating specific excitations to specific acoustical outputs. Knowledge of such signals and functions can be used to effect various sound replication, sound source identification, and sound cancellation applications.

System and method for characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate sound sources

DOEpatents

Holzrichter, John F; Burnett, Greg C; Ng, Lawrence C

2013-05-21

A system and method for characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate sound sources is disclosed. Propagating wave electromagnetic sensors monitor excitation sources in sound producing systems, such as machines, musical instruments, and various other structures. Acoustical output from these sound producing systems is also monitored. From such information, a transfer function characterizing the sound producing system is generated. From the transfer function, acoustical output from the sound producing system may be synthesized or canceled. The methods disclosed enable accurate calculation of matched transfer functions relating specific excitations to specific acoustical outputs. Knowledge of such signals and functions can be used to effect various sound replication, sound source identification, and sound cancellation applications.

System and method for characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate sound sources

DOEpatents

Holzrichter, John F.; Burnett, Greg C.; Ng, Lawrence C.

2007-10-16

A system and method for characterizing, synthesizing, and/or canceling out acoustic signals from inanimate sound sources is disclosed. Propagating wave electromagnetic sensors monitor excitation sources in sound producing systems, such as machines, musical instruments, and various other structures. Acoustical output from these sound producing systems is also monitored. From such information, a transfer function characterizing the sound producing system is generated. From the transfer function, acoustical output from the sound producing system may be synthesized or canceled. The methods disclosed enable accurate calculation of matched transfer functions relating specific excitations to specific acoustical outputs. Knowledge of such signals and functions can be used to effect various sound replication, sound source identification, and sound cancellation applications.

Single photon source with individualized single photon certifications

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Migdall, Alan L.; Branning, David A.; Castelletto, Stefania; Ware, M.

2002-12-01

As currently implemented, single-photon sources cannot be made to produce single photons with high probability, while simultaneously suppressing the probability of yielding two or more photons. Because of this, single photon sources cannot really produce single photons on demand. We describe a multiplexed system that allows the probabilities of producing one and more photons to be adjusted independently, enabling a much better approximation of a source of single photons on demand. The scheme uses a heralded photon source based on parametric downconversion, but by effectively breaking the trigger detector area into multiple regions, we are able to extract more information about a heralded photon than is possible with a conventional arrangement. This scheme allows photons to be produced along with a quantitative 'certification' that they are single photons. Some of the single-photon certifications can be significantly better than what is possible with conventional downconversion sources, as well as being better than faint laser sources. With such a source of more tightly certified single photons, it should be possible to improve the maximum secure bit rate possible over a quantum cryptographic link. We present an analysis of the relative merits of this method over the conventional arrangement.

10 CFR 32.1 - Purpose and scope.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-01-01

... recognized Indian Tribes with respect to accelerator-produced radioactive material or discrete sources of... transfer items containing accelerator-produced radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226 for... radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226 on August 8, 2009, or earlier as noticed by the NRC...

High voltage MOSFET switching circuit

DOEpatents

McEwan, Thomas E.

1994-01-01

The problem of source lead inductance in a MOSFET switching circuit is compensated for by adding an inductor to the gate circuit. The gate circuit inductor produces an inductive spike which counters the source lead inductive drop to produce a rectangular drive voltage waveform at the internal gate-source terminals of the MOSFET.

Measurement of Ultracold Neutrons Produced by Using Doppler-shifted Bragg Reflection at a Pulsed-neutron Source

DOE R&D Accomplishments Database

Brun, T. O.; Carpenter, J. M.; Krohn, V. E.; Ringo, G. R.; Cronin, J. W.; Dombeck, T. W.; Lynn, J. W.; Werner, S. A.

1979-01-01

Ultracold neutrons (UCN) have been produced at the Argonne pulsed-neutron source by the Doppler shift of 400-m/s neutrons Bragg reflected from a moving crystal. The peak density of UCN produced at the crystal exceeds 0.1 n/cm{sup 3}.

Optimizing laser produced plasmas for efficient extreme ultraviolet and soft X-ray light sources

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sizyuk, Tatyana; Hassanein, Ahmed

2014-08-01

Photon sources produced by laser beams with moderate laser intensities, up to 1014 W/cm2, are being developed for many industrial applications. The performance requirements for high volume manufacture devices necessitate extensive experimental research supported by theoretical plasma analysis and modeling predictions. We simulated laser produced plasma sources currently being developed for several applications such as extreme ultraviolet lithography using 13.5% ± 1% nm bandwidth, possibly beyond extreme ultraviolet lithography using 6.× nm wavelengths, and water-window microscopy utilizing 2.48 nm (La-α) and 2.88 nm (He-α) emission. We comprehensively modeled plasma evolution from solid/liquid tin, gadolinium, and nitrogen targets as three promising materials for the above described sources, respectively. Results of our analysis for plasma characteristics during the entire course of plasma evolution showed the dependence of source conversion efficiency (CE), i.e., laser energy to photons at the desired wavelength, on plasma electron density gradient. Our results showed that utilizing laser intensities which produce hotter plasma than the optimum emission temperatures allows increasing CE for all considered sources that, however, restricted by the reabsorption processes around the main emission region and this restriction is especially actual for the 6.× nm sources.

Energy Efficiency of Biogas Produced from Different Biomass Sources

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Begum, Shahida; Nazri, A. H.

2013-06-01

Malaysia has different sources of biomass like palm oil waste, agricultural waste, cow dung, sewage waste and landfill sites, which can be used to produce biogas and as a source of energy. Depending on the type of biomass, the biogas produced can have different calorific value. At the same time the energy, being used to produce biogas is dependent on transportation distance, means of transportation, conversion techniques and for handling of raw materials and digested residues. An energy systems analysis approach based on literature is applied to calculate the energy efficiency of biogas produced from biomass. Basically, the methodology is comprised of collecting data, proposing locations and estimating the energy input needed to produce biogas and output obtained from the generated biogas. The study showed that palm oil and municipal solid waste is two potential sources of biomass. The energy efficiency of biogas produced from palm oil residues and municipal solid wastes is 1.70 and 3.33 respectively. Municipal solid wastes have the higher energy efficiency due to less transportation distance and electricity consumption. Despite the inherent uncertainties in the calculations, it can be concluded that the energy potential to use biomass for biogas production is a promising alternative.

Message Modality and Source Credibility Can Interact to Affect Argument Processing.

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Booth-Butterfield, Steve; Gutowski, Christine

1993-01-01

Extends previous modality and source cue studies by manipulating argument quality. Randomly assigned college students by class to an argument quality by source attribute by modality factorial experiment. Finds the print mode produces only argument main effects, and audio and video modes produce argument by cue interactions. Finds data inconsistent…

High voltage MOSFET switching circuit

DOEpatents

McEwan, T.E.

1994-07-26

The problem of source lead inductance in a MOSFET switching circuit is compensated for by adding an inductor to the gate circuit. The gate circuit inductor produces an inductive spike which counters the source lead inductive drop to produce a rectangular drive voltage waveform at the internal gate-source terminals of the MOSFET. 2 figs.

First operation and effect of a new tandem-type ion source based on electron cyclotron resonance

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Kato, Yushi, E-mail: kato@eei.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp; Kimura, Daiju; Yano, Keisuke

A new tandem type source has been constructed on the basis of electron cyclotron resonance plasma for producing synthesized ion beams in Osaka University. Magnetic field in the first stage consists of all permanent magnets, i.e., cylindrically comb shaped one, and that of the second stage consists of a pair of mirror coil, a supplemental coil and the octupole magnets. Both stage plasmas can be individually operated, and produced ions in which is energy controlled by large bore extractor also can be transported from the first to the second stage. We investigate the basic operation and effects of the tandemmore » type electron cyclotron resonance ion source (ECRIS). Analysis of ion beams and investigation of plasma parameters are conducted on produced plasmas in dual plasmas operation as well as each single operation. We describe construction and initial experimental results of the new tandem type ion source based on ECRIS with wide operation window for aiming at producing synthesized ion beams as this new source can be a universal source in future.« less

75 FR 47896 - Proposed Collection; Comment Request for Regulation Project

Federal Register 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

2010-08-09

... concerning an existing final regulation, INTL-3-95 (TD 8687), Source of Income From Sales of Inventory and...: Source of Income From Sales of Inventory and Natural Resources Produced in One Jurisdiction and Sold in... or other inventory produced in the United States and sold outside the United States or produced...

Single-source mechanical loading system produces biaxial stresses in cylinders

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Flower, J. F.; Stafford, R. L.

1967-01-01

Single-source mechanical loading system proportions axial-to-hoop tension loads applied to cylindrical specimens. The system consists of hydraulic, pneumatic, and lever arrangements which produce biaxial loading ratios.

The extraction of negative carbon ions from a volume cusp ion source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Melanson, Stephane; Dehnel, Morgan; Potkins, Dave; McDonald, Hamish; Hollinger, Craig; Theroux, Joseph; Martin, Jeff; Stewart, Thomas; Jackle, Philip; Philpott, Chris; Jones, Tobin; Kalvas, Taneli; Tarvainen, Olli

2017-08-01

Acetylene and carbon dioxide gases are used in a filament-powered volume-cusp ion source to produce negative carbon ions for the purpose of carbon implantation for gettering applications. The beam was extracted to an energy of 25 keV and the composition was analyzed with a spectrometer system consisting of a 90° dipole magnet and a pair of slits. It is found that acetylene produces mostly C2- ions (up to 92 µA), while carbon dioxide produces mostly O- with only trace amounts of C-. Maximum C2- current was achieved with 400 W of arc power and, the beam current and composition were found to be highly dependent on the pressure in the source. The beam properties as a function of source settings are analyzed, and plasma properties are measured with a Langmuir probe. Finally, we describe testing of a new RF H- ion source, found to produce more than 6 mA of CW H- beam.

Conidiation of Penicillium camemberti in submerged liquid cultures is dependent on the nitrogen source.

PubMed

Boualem, Khadidja; Labrie, Steve; Gervais, Patrick; Waché, Yves; Cavin, Jean-François

2016-02-01

To study the ability of a commercial Penicillium camemberti strain, used for Camembert type cheese ripening, to produce conidia during growth in liquid culture (LC), in media containing different sources of nitrogen as, industrially, conidia are produced by growth at the surface of a solid state culture because conidiation in stirred submerged aerobic LC is not known. In complex media containing peptic digest of meat, hyphae ends did not differentiate into phialides and conidia. Contrarily, in a synthetic media containing KNO3 as sole nitrogen source, hyphae ends differentiated into phialides producing 0.5 × 10(7) conidia/ml. Conidia produced in LC were 25 % less hydrophobic than conidia produced in solid culture, and this correlates with a seven-times-lower expression of the gene rodA encoding hydrophobin RodA in the mycelium grown in LC. Conidiation of P. camembertii is stimulated in iquid medium containing KNO3 as sole source of nitrogen and therefore opens up opportunities for using liquid medium in commercial productions.

Dense plasma focus (DPF) accelerated non radio isotopic radiological source

DOEpatents

Rusnak, Brian; Tang, Vincent

2017-01-31

A non-radio-isotopic radiological source using a dense plasma focus (DPF) to produce an intense z-pinch plasma from a gas, such as helium, and which accelerates charged particles, such as generated from the gas or injected from an external source, into a target positioned along an acceleration axis and of a type known to emit ionizing radiation when impinged by the type of accelerated charged particles. In a preferred embodiment, helium gas is used to produce a DPF-accelerated He2+ ion beam to a beryllium target, to produce neutron emission having a similar energy spectrum as a radio-isotopic AmBe neutron source. Furthermore, multiple DPFs may be stacked to provide staged acceleration of charged particles for enhancing energy, tunability, and control of the source.

Magnetic resonance apparatus

DOEpatents

Jackson, Jasper A.; Cooper, Richard K.

1982-01-01

Means for producing a region of homogeneous magnetic field remote from the source of the field, wherein two equal field sources are arranged axially so their fields oppose, producing a region near the plane perpendicular to the axis midway between the sources where the radial component of the field goes through a maximum. Near the maximum, the field is homogeneous over prescribed regions.

Plasma X-Ray Sources for Lithography

DTIC Science & Technology

1980-05-12

in evaluating various plasma sources. In addition, a brief analysis is given of three devices, or systems, used to produce such plasmas: the electron beam- sliding spark, the dense plasma focus and the laser produced plasma.

Apparatus for photon activation positron annihilation analysis

DOEpatents

Akers, Douglas W [Idaho Falls, ID

2007-06-12

Non-destructive testing apparatus according to one embodiment of the invention comprises a photon source. The photon source produces photons having predetermined energies and directs the photons toward a specimen being tested. The photons from the photon source result in the creation of positrons within the specimen being tested. A detector positioned adjacent the specimen being tested detects gamma rays produced by annihilation of positrons with electrons. A data processing system operatively associated with the detector produces output data indicative of a lattice characteristic of the specimen being tested.

The Functional Potential of Microbial Communities in Hydraulic Fracturing Source Water and Produced Water from Natural Gas Extraction Characterized by Metagenomic Sequencing

PubMed Central

Mohan, Arvind Murali; Bibby, Kyle J.; Lipus, Daniel; Hammack, Richard W.; Gregory, Kelvin B.

2014-01-01

Microbial activity in produced water from hydraulic fracturing operations can lead to undesired environmental impacts and increase gas production costs. However, the metabolic profile of these microbial communities is not well understood. Here, for the first time, we present results from a shotgun metagenome of microbial communities in both hydraulic fracturing source water and wastewater produced by hydraulic fracturing. Taxonomic analyses showed an increase in anaerobic/facultative anaerobic classes related to Clostridia, Gammaproteobacteria, Bacteroidia and Epsilonproteobacteria in produced water as compared to predominantly aerobic Alphaproteobacteria in the fracturing source water. The metabolic profile revealed a relative increase in genes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism, respiration, sporulation and dormancy, iron acquisition and metabolism, stress response and sulfur metabolism in the produced water samples. These results suggest that microbial communities in produced water have an increased genetic ability to handle stress, which has significant implications for produced water management, such as disinfection. PMID:25338024

The functional potential of microbial communities in hydraulic fracturing source water and produced water from natural gas extraction characterized by metagenomic sequencing

DOE PAGES

Mohan, Arvind Murali; Bibby, Kyle J.; Lipus, Daniel; ...

2014-10-22

Microbial activity in produced water from hydraulic fracturing operations can lead to undesired environmental impacts and increase gas production costs. However, the metabolic profile of these microbial communities is not well understood. Here, for the first time, we present results from a shotgun metagenome of microbial communities in both hydraulic fracturing source water and wastewater produced by hydraulic fracturing. Taxonomic analyses showed an increase in anaerobic/facultative anaerobic classes related to Clostridia, Gammaproteobacteria, Bacteroidia and Epsilonproteobacteria in produced water as compared to predominantly aerobic Alphaproteobacteria in the fracturing source water. Thus, the metabolic profile revealed a relative increase in genes responsiblemore » for carbohydrate metabolism, respiration, sporulation and dormancy, iron acquisition and metabolism, stress response and sulfur metabolism in the produced water samples. These results suggest that microbial communities in produced water have an increased genetic ability to handle stress, which has significant implications for produced water management, such as disinfection.« less

The functional potential of microbial communities in hydraulic fracturing source water and produced water from natural gas extraction characterized by metagenomic sequencing.

PubMed

Mohan, Arvind Murali; Bibby, Kyle J; Lipus, Daniel; Hammack, Richard W; Gregory, Kelvin B

2014-01-01

Microbial activity in produced water from hydraulic fracturing operations can lead to undesired environmental impacts and increase gas production costs. However, the metabolic profile of these microbial communities is not well understood. Here, for the first time, we present results from a shotgun metagenome of microbial communities in both hydraulic fracturing source water and wastewater produced by hydraulic fracturing. Taxonomic analyses showed an increase in anaerobic/facultative anaerobic classes related to Clostridia, Gammaproteobacteria, Bacteroidia and Epsilonproteobacteria in produced water as compared to predominantly aerobic Alphaproteobacteria in the fracturing source water. The metabolic profile revealed a relative increase in genes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism, respiration, sporulation and dormancy, iron acquisition and metabolism, stress response and sulfur metabolism in the produced water samples. These results suggest that microbial communities in produced water have an increased genetic ability to handle stress, which has significant implications for produced water management, such as disinfection.

Determining the Economic Feasibility of Using Produced Water for Agriculture in Colorado Through Life Cycle Cost Analyses

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dolan, F.; Blaine, A. C.; Hogue, T. S.

2016-12-01

To combat the need for new sources of water in Colorado, the current research looks to produced water as a potential source. Produced water, the water produced alongside oil and gas in a well, is currently viewed as a high-volume waste product; however, this water can potentially be used to irrigate food or non-food crops after treatment. Kern County in California has been using produced water for this purpose for over 20 years and a town in Colorado has followed suit. Our research seeks to determine how Wellington, CO overcame economic, legal, social, and technological barriers in order to put produced water to beneficial use. Life cycle cost analyses of produced water in three counties in Colorado are conducted to determine the economic feasibility of using produced water for irrigation on a broad scale. The current study is chosen based on the quality and quantity of the region's produced water as well as the need for new sources of water within the county. The results of this research will help in the transition between viewing produced water as a waste product and using it as a tool to help secure Colorado's water future.

Dedolomitization and Alkali Reactions in Ohio-sourced Dolstone Aggregates

DOT National Transportation Integrated Search

2017-11-01

Concrete samples produced using NW-Ohio sourced aggregates were evaluated for susceptibility to degradation and premature failure due to cracks formed by the volume expansion during hydration of silica gels produced by alkali-silica reactions between...

Cosmic-Ray Source Composition Determined from ACE

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Wiedenbeck, M.

2000-01-01

The cosmic rays arriving at Earth comprise a mix of material produced by stellar sources and ejected into the interstellar medium (primary cosmic rays) and particles produced by fragmentation of heavier nuclei during transport through the Galaxy.

History of energy sources and their utilization in Nigeria

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Ogunsola, O.I.

1990-01-01

Nigeria, a major oil producer, is rich in other energy sources. These include wood, coal, gas, tar sands, and hydro power. Although oil has been the most popular, some other energy sources have a longer history. This article discusses the historical trends in the production and utilization of Nigerian energy sources. Wood has the longest history. However,its utilization was limited to domestic cooking. Imported coal was first used in 1896, but it was not discovered in Nigeria until 1909 and was first produced in 1916. Although oil exploration started in 1901, it was first discovered in commercial quantity in 1956more » and produced in 1958. Oil thereafter took over the energy scene from coal until 1969, when hydro energy was first produced. Energy consumption has been mainly from hydro. Tar sands account for about 55% of total proven non-renewable reserves.« less

Electron beam pumped semiconductor laser

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Hug, William F. (Inventor); Reid, Ray D. (Inventor)

2009-01-01

Electron-beam-pumped semiconductor ultra-violet optical sources (ESUVOSs) are disclosed that use ballistic electron pumped wide bandgap semiconductor materials. The sources may produce incoherent radiation and take the form of electron-beam-pumped light emitting triodes (ELETs). The sources may produce coherent radiation and take the form of electron-beam-pumped laser triodes (ELTs). The ELTs may take the form of electron-beam-pumped vertical cavity surface emitting lasers (EVCSEL) or edge emitting electron-beam-pumped lasers (EEELs). The semiconductor medium may take the form of an aluminum gallium nitride alloy that has a mole fraction of aluminum selected to give a desired emission wavelength, diamond, or diamond-like carbon (DLC). The sources may be produced from discrete components that are assembled after their individual formation or they may be produced using batch MEMS-type or semiconductor-type processing techniques to build them up in a whole or partial monolithic manner, or combination thereof.

High-Performance Single-Photon Sources via Spatial Multiplexing

DTIC Science & Technology

2014-01-01

ingredient for tasks such as quantum cryptography , quantum repeater, quantum teleportation, quantum computing, and truly-random number generation. Recently...SECURITY CLASSIFICATION OF: Single photons sources are desired for many potential quantum information applications. One common method to produce...photons sources are desired for many potential quantum information applications. One common method to produce single photons is based on a “heralding

Magnetic resonance apparatus

DOEpatents

Jackson, J.A.; Cooper, R.K.

1980-10-10

The patent consists of means for producing a region of homogeneous magnetic field remote from the source of the field, wherein two equal field sources are arranged axially so their fields oppose, producing a region near the plane perpendicular to the axis midway between the sources where the radial correspondent of the field goes through a maximum. Near the maximum, the field is homogeneous over prescribed regions.

Potency of Amylase-producing Bacteria and Optimization Amylase Activities

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Indriati, G.; Megahati, R. R. P.; Rosba, E.

2018-04-01

Enzymes are capable to act as biocatalyst for a wide variety of chemical reactions. Amylase have potential biotechnological applications in a wide range of industrial processes and account for nearly 30% of the world’s enzyme market. Amylase are extracellular enzymes that catalyze the hydrolysis of internal α-1,4-glycosidic linkages in starch to dextrin, and other small carbohydrate molecules constituted of glucose units. Although enzymes are produced from animal and plant sources, the microbial sources are generally the most suitable for commercial applications. Bacteria from hot springs is widely used as a source of various enzymes, such as amylase. But the amount of amylase-producing bacteria is still very limited. Therefore it is necessary to search sources of amylase-producing bacteria new, such as from hot springs Pariangan. The purpose of this study was to isolation of amylase-producing bacteria from Pariangan hot spring, West Sumatera and amylase activity optimization. The results were obtained 12 isolates of thermophilic bacteria and 5 isolates of amyalse-producing bacteria with the largest amylolytic index of 3.38 mm. The highest amylase activity was obtained at 50°C and pH 7.5.

What are single photons good for?

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sangouard, Nicolas; Zbinden, Hugo

2012-10-01

In a long-held preconception, photons play a central role in present-day quantum technologies. But what are sources producing photons one by one good for precisely? Well, in opposition to what many suggest, we show that single-photon sources are not helpful for point to point quantum key distribution because faint laser pulses do the job comfortably. However, there is no doubt about the usefulness of sources producing single photons for future quantum technologies. In particular, we show how single-photon sources could become the seed of a revolution in the framework of quantum communication, making the security of quantum key distribution device-independent or extending quantum communication over many hundreds of kilometers. Hopefully, these promising applications will provide a guideline for researchers to develop more and more efficient sources, producing narrowband, pure and indistinguishable photons at appropriate wavelengths.

Constitutive and inducible pectinolytic enzymes from Aspergillus flavipes FP-500 and their modulation by pH and carbon source

PubMed Central

Martínez-Trujillo, Aurora; Aranda, Juan S.; Gómez-Sánchez, Carlos; Trejo-Aguilar, Blanca; Aguilar-Osorio, Guillermo

2009-01-01

Growth and enzymes production by Aspergillus flavipes FP-500 were evaluated on pectin, polygalacturonic acid, galacturonic acid, arabinose, rhamnose, xylose, glycerol and glucose at different initial pH values. We found that the strain produced exopectinases, endopectinases and pectin lyases. Exopectinases and pectin lyase were found to be produced at basal levels as constitutive enzymes and their production was modulated by the available carbon source and pH of culture medium and stimulated by the presence of inducer in the culture medium. Endo-pectinase was basically inducible and was only produced when pectin was used as carbon source. Our results suggest that pectinases in A. flavipes FP-500 are produced in a concerted way. The first enzyme to be produced was exopectinase followed by Pectin Lyase and Endo-pectinase. PMID:24031315

Hydride compressor

DOEpatents

Powell, James R.; Salzano, Francis J.

1978-01-01

Method of producing high energy pressurized gas working fluid power from a low energy, low temperature heat source, wherein the compression energy is gained by using the low energy heat source to desorb hydrogen gas from a metal hydride bed and the desorbed hydrogen for producing power is recycled to the bed, where it is re-adsorbed, with the recycling being powered by the low energy heat source. In one embodiment, the adsorption-desorption cycle provides a chemical compressor that is powered by the low energy heat source, and the compressor is connected to a regenerative gas turbine having a high energy, high temperature heat source with the recycling being powered by the low energy heat source.

On the source of flare-ejecta responsible for geomagnetic storms

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Sakurai, K.

1974-01-01

It is shown that magnetic bottles as the sources of moving metric type 4 bursts are not responsible for the development of geomagnetic storms, despite the fact that shock waves producing type 2 bursts are the sources of the interplanetary shock waves, which produce SSC's on the geomagnetic field. These magnetic bottles, in general, tend to move in the solar envelope with the speed of several hundred Km/sec at most, which is much slower than that of the motion of type 2 radio sources.

UNDERSTANDING MERCURY FATE AND TRANSPORT FROM SOURCES TO DEPOSITION

EPA Science Inventory

ORD's atmospheric mercury research produces information to improve the understanding of mercury transport and fate from the point of emission into the atmosphere to its deposition to terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems. Specifically, this research will produce source emission and...

40 CFR Table 5 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 11 2010-07-01 2010-07-01 true Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics 5 Table 5 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63 Protection of Environment ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...

40 CFR Table 5 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 11 2011-07-01 2011-07-01 false Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics 5 Table 5 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63 Protection of Environment ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...

40 CFR Table 5 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2014-07-01 2014-07-01 false Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics 5 Table 5 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63 Protection of Environment ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...

40 CFR Table 5 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2013-07-01 2013-07-01 false Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics 5 Table 5 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63 Protection of Environment ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...

40 CFR Table 5 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2012-07-01 2011-07-01 true Group 1 Storage Vessels at New Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics 5 Table 5 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63 Protection of Environment ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...

Prevalence of Shiga toxin producing Escherichia coli, Salmonella enterica and Listeria monocytogenes at public access watershed sites in a California central coast agricultural region

USDA-ARS?s Scientific Manuscript database

Produce contaminated with enteric pathogens is a major source of foodborne illness in the United States. Surface water regions serves as both a source and a vehicle for transport of pathogens to produce in the field. Lakes, streams, rivers, and ponds at 30 locations in the vicinity of a leafy green ...

Method for making an energetic material

DOEpatents

Fox, Robert V [Idaho Falls, ID

2008-03-18

A method for making trinitrotoluene is described, and which includes the steps of providing a source of aqueous nitric acid having a concentration of less than about 95% by weight; mixing a surfactant with the source of aqueous nitric acid so as to dehydrate the aqueous nitric acid to produce a source of nitronium ions; providing a supercritical carbon dioxide environment; providing a source of an organic material to be nitrated to the supercritical carbon dioxide environment; and controllably mixing the source or nitronium ions with the supercritical carbon dioxide environment to nitrate the organic material and produce trinitrotoluene.

Multi-wavelength time-coincident optical communications system and methods thereof

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Lekki, John (Inventor); Nguyen, Quang-Viet (Inventor)

2009-01-01

An optical communications transmitter includes a oscillator source, producing a clock signal, a data source, producing a data signal, a modulating circuit for modulating the clock signal using the data signal to produce modulating signals, optical drivers, receiving the modulating signals and producing optical driving signals based on the modulating signals and optical emitters, producing small numbers of photons based on the optical driving signals. The small numbers of photons are time-correlated between at least two separate optical transmission wavelengths and quantum states and the small number of photons can be detected by a receiver to reform the data signal.

Method for the production of dicarboxylic acids

DOEpatents

Nghiem, N.P.; Donnelly, M.; Millard, C.S.; Stols, L.

1999-02-09

The present invention is an economical fermentation method for the production of carboxylic acids comprising the steps of (a) inoculating a medium having a carbon source with a carboxylic acid-producing organism; (b) incubating the carboxylic acid-producing organism in an aerobic atmosphere to promote rapid growth of the organism thereby increasing the biomass of the organism; (c) controllably releasing oxygen to maintain the aerobic atmosphere; (d) controllably feeding the organism having increased biomass with a solution containing the carbon source to maintain the concentration of the carbon source within the medium of about 0.5 g/l up to about 1 g/l; (e) depriving the aerobic atmosphere of oxygen to produce an anaerobic atmosphere to cause the organism to undergo anaerobic metabolism; (f) controllably feeding the organism having increased biomass a solution containing the carbon source to maintain the concentration of the carbon source within the medium of {>=}1 g/l; and (g) converting the carbon source to carboxylic acids using the anaerobic metabolism of the organism. 7 figs.

Method for the production of dicarboxylic acids

DOEpatents

Nghiem, Nhuan Phu; Donnelly, Mark; Millard, Cynthia S.; Stols, Lucy

1999-01-01

The present invention is an economical fermentation method for the production of carboxylic acids comprising the steps of a) inoculating a medium having a carbon source with a carboxylic acid-producing organism; b) incubating the carboxylic acid-producing organism in an aerobic atmosphere to promote rapid growth of the organism thereby increasing the biomass of the organism; c) controllably releasing oxygen to maintain the aerobic atmosphere; d) controllably feeding the organism having increased biomass with a solution containing the carbon source to maintain the concentration of the carbon source within the medium of about 0.5 g/L up to about 1 g/L; e) depriving the aerobic atmosphere of oxygen to produce an anaerobic atmosphere to cause the organism to undergo anaerobic metabolism; f) controllably feeding the organism having increased biomass a solution containing the carbon source to maintain the concentration of the carbon source within the medium of .gtoreq.1 g/L; and g) converting the carbon source to carboxylic acids using the anaerobic metabolism of the organism.

Negative ion-driven associated particle neutron generator

DOE PAGES

Antolak, A. J.; Leung, K. N.; Morse, D. H.; ...

2015-10-09

We describe an associated particle neutron generator that employs a negative ion source to produce high neutron flux from a small source size. Furthermore, negative ions produced in an rf-driven plasma source are extracted through a small aperture to form a beam which bombards a positively biased, high voltage target electrode. Electrons co-extracted with the negative ions are removed by a permanent magnet electron filter. The use of negative ions enables high neutron output (100% atomic ion beam), high quality imaging (small neutron source size), and reliable operation (no high voltage breakdowns). Finally, the neutron generator can operate in eithermore » pulsed or continuous-wave (cw) mode and has been demonstrated to produce 10 6 D-D n/s (equivalent to similar to 10 8 D-T n/s) from a 1 mm-diameter neutron source size to facilitate high fidelity associated particle imaging.« less

POSTER TITLE: UNDERSTANDING MERCURY FATE AND TRANSPORT FROM SOURCES TO DEPOSITION

EPA Science Inventory

ORD's atmospheric mercury research produces information to improve the understanding of mercury transport and fate from the point of emission into the atmosphere to its deposition to terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems. Specifically, this research will produce source emission and...

Table-top laser-driven ultrashort electron and X-ray source: the CIBER-X source project

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Girardeau-Montaut, Jean-Pierre; Kiraly, Bélà; Girardeau-Montaut, Claire; Leboutet, Hubert

2000-09-01

We report on the development of a new laser-driven table-top ultrashort electron and X-ray source, also called the CIBER-X source . X-ray pulses are produced by a three-step process which consists of the photoelectron emission from a thin metallic photocathode illuminated by 16 ps duration laser pulses at 213 nm. The e-gun is a standard Pierce diode electrode type, in which electrons are accelerated by a cw electric field of ˜11 MV/m up to a hole made in the anode. The photoinjector produces a train of 70-80 keV electron pulses of ˜0.5 nC and 20 A peak current at a repetition rate of 10 Hz. The electrons are then transported outside the diode along a path of 20 cm length, and are focused onto a target of thullium by magnetic fields produced by two electromagnetic coils. X-rays are then produced by the impact of electrons on the target. Simulations of geometrical, electromagnetic fields and energetic characteristics of the complete source were performed previously with the assistance of the code PIXEL1 also developed at the laboratory. Finally, experimental electron and X-ray performances of the CIBER-X source as well as its application to very low dose imagery are presented and discussed. source Compacte d' Impulsions Brèves d' Electrons et de Rayons X

Use of Bacteroidales Microbial Source Tracking To Monitor Fecal Contamination in Fresh Produce Production

PubMed Central

Ravaliya, Kruti; Garcia, Santos; Heredia, Norma; Fabiszewski de Aceituno, Anna; Bartz, Faith E.; Leon, Juan S.; Jaykus, Lee-Ann

2014-01-01

In recent decades, fresh and minimally processed produce items have been associated with an increasing proportion of food-borne illnesses. Most pathogens associated with fresh produce are enteric (fecal) in origin, and contamination can occur anywhere along the farm-to-fork chain. Microbial source tracking (MST) is a tool developed in the environmental microbiology field to identify and quantify the dominant source(s) of fecal contamination. This study investigated the utility of an MST method based on Bacteroidales 16S rRNA gene sequences as a means of identifying potential fecal contamination, and its source, in the fresh produce production environment. The method was applied to rinses of fresh produce, source and irrigation waters, and harvester hand rinses collected over the course of 1 year from nine farms (growing tomatoes, jalapeño peppers, and cantaloupe) in Northern Mexico. Of 174 samples, 39% were positive for a universal Bacteroidales marker (AllBac), including 66% of samples from cantaloupe farms (3.6 log10 genome equivalence copies [GEC]/100 ml), 31% of samples from tomato farms (1.7 log10 GEC/100 ml), and 18% of samples from jalapeño farms (1.5 log10 GEC/100 ml). Of 68 AllBac-positive samples, 46% were positive for one of three human-specific markers, and none were positive for a bovine-specific marker. There was no statistically significant correlation between Bacteroidales and generic Escherichia coli across all samples. This study provides evidence that Bacteroidales markers may serve as alternative indicators for fecal contamination in fresh produce production, allowing for determination of both general contamination and that derived from the human host. PMID:24212583

Where Do Agricultural Producers Get Safety and Health Information?

PubMed

Chiu, Sophia; Cheyney, Marsha; Ramirez, Marizen; Gerr, Fred

2015-01-01

There is little empirical guidance regarding communication sources and channels used and trusted by agricultural producers. The goal of this study was to characterize frequency of use and levels of trust in agricultural safety and health information sources and channels accessed by agricultural producers. A sample of 195 agricultural producers was surveyed at county fairs in Iowa. Information was collected about the frequency of use and level of trust in 14 information sources and channels. Associations between age, gender, and education level and use and trust of each information source or channel were estimated using logistic regression. The sample consisted of 72% men with a mean age of 50.1 (SD = 15.6) years. Newspaper and magazine articles were the most commonly used agricultural safety and health information source or channel; 77% (n = 140) of respondents reporting using them at least monthly. Among those reporting monthly or more frequent use, 75% reported trusting mostly or completely, compared with 58% using and 49% trusting the Internet. High levels of use and trust of newspaper and magazine articles did not vary significantly by age, gender, or education level. Age in the highest tertile (57-83 years) was marginally associated with lower odds of using, as well as using and trusting, all the information sources and channels studied except for medical clinics (use only: odds ratio [OR], 3.51, 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.79-15.64; use and trust: OR, 5.90, 95% CI, 0.91-38.42). These findings suggest that traditional media may be more effective than digital media for delivering agricultural safety and health information to agricultural producers. Medical clinics may be an untapped venue for communicating with older agricultural producers.

Inverse compton light source: a compact design proposal

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Deitrick, Kirsten Elizabeth

In the last decade, there has been an increasing demand for a compact Inverse Compton Light Source (ICLS) which is capable of producing high-quality X-rays by colliding an electron beam and a high-quality laser. It is only in recent years when both SRF and laser technology have advanced enough that compact sources can approach the quality found at large installations such as the Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Laboratory. Previously, X-ray sources were either high flux and brilliance at a large facility or many orders of magnitude lesser when produced by a bremsstrahlung source. A recent compact source wasmore » constructed by Lyncean Technologies using a storage ring to produce the electron beam used to scatter the incident laser beam. By instead using a linear accelerator system for the electron beam, a significant increase in X-ray beam quality is possible, though even subsequent designs also featuring a storage ring offer improvement. Preceding the linear accelerator with an SRF reentrant gun allows for an extremely small transverse emittance, increasing the brilliance of the resulting X-ray source. In order to achieve sufficiently small emittances, optimization was done regarding both the geometry of the gun and the initial electron bunch distribution produced off the cathode. Using double-spoke SRF cavities to comprise the linear accelerator allows for an electron beam of reasonable size to be focused at the interaction point, while preserving the low emittance that was generated by the gun. An aggressive final focusing section following the electron beam's exit from the accelerator produces the small spot size at the interaction point which results in an X-ray beam of high flux and brilliance. Taking all of these advancements together, a world class compact X-ray source has been designed. It is anticipated that this source would far outperform the conventional bremsstrahlung and many other compact ICLSs, while coming closer to performing at the levels found at large facilities than ever before. The design process, including the development between subsequent iterations, is presented here in detail, with the simulation results for this groundbreaking X-ray source.« less

Mitigating the effect of siloxanes on internal combustion engines using landfill gasses

DOEpatents

Besmann, Theodore M

2015-01-06

A waste gas combustion method that includes providing a combustible fuel source, in which the combustible fuel source is composed of at least methane and siloxane gas. A sodium source or magnesium source is mixed with the combustible fuel source. Combustion of the siloxane gas of the combustible fuel source produces a silicon containing product. The sodium source or magnesium source reacts with the silicon containing product to provide a sodium containing glass or sodium containing silicate, or a magnesium containing silicate. By producing the sodium containing glass or sodium containing silicate, or the magnesium containing silicate, or magnesium source for precipitating particulate silica instead of hard coating, the method may reduce or eliminate the formation of silica deposits within the combustion chamber and the exhaust components of the internal combustion engine.

Mitigating the effect of siloxanes on internal combustion engines using landfill gasses

DOEpatents

Besmann, Theodore M

2014-01-21

A waste gas combustion method that includes providing a combustible fuel source, in which the combustible fuel source is composed of at least methane and siloxane gas. A sodium source or magnesium source is mixed with the combustible fuel source. Combustion of the siloxane gas of the combustible fuel source produces a silicon containing product. The sodium source or magnesium source reacts with the silicon containing product to provide a sodium containing glass or sodium containing silicate, or a magnesium containing silicate. By producing the sodium containing glass or sodium containing silicate, or the magnesium containing silicate, or magnesium source for precipitating particulate silica instead of hard coating, the method may reduce or eliminate the formation of silica deposits within the combustion chamber and the exhaust components of the internal combustion engine.

Field emission electron source

DOEpatents

Zettl, Alexander Karlwalter; Cohen, Marvin Lou

2000-01-01

A novel field emitter material, field emission electron source, and commercially feasible fabrication method is described. The inventive field emission electron source produces reliable electron currents of up to 400 mA/cm.sup.2 at 200 volts. The emitter is robust and the current it produces is not sensitive to variability of vacuum or the distance between the emitter tip and the cathode. The novel emitter has a sharp turn-on near 100 volts.

Progress of superconducting electron cyclotron resonance ion sources at Institute of Modern Physics (IMP)

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Sun, L., E-mail: sunlt@impcas.ac.cn; Feng, Y. C.; Zhang, W. H.

2014-02-15

Superconducting ECR ion sources can produce intense highly charged ion beams for the application in heavy ion accelerators. Superconducting Electron Resonance ion source with Advanced Design (SECRAL) is one of the few fully superconducting ECR ion sources that has been successfully built and put into routine operation for years. With enormous efforts and R and D work, promising results have been achieved with the ion source. Heated by the microwave power from a 7 kW/24 GHz gyrotron microwave generator, very intense highly charged gaseous ion beams have been produced, such as 455 eμA Xe{sup 27+}, 236 eμA Xe{sup 30+}, andmore » 64 eμA Xe{sup 35+}. Since heavy metallic ion beams are being more and more attractive and important for many accelerator projects globally, intensive studies have been made to produce highly charged heavy metal ion beams, such as those from bismuth and uranium. Recently, 420 eμA Bi{sup 30+} and 202 eμA U{sup 33+} have been produced with SECRAL source. This paper will present the latest results with SECRAL, and the operation status will be discussed as well. An introduction of recently started SECRAL II project will also be given in the presentation.« less

Performance summary on a high power dense plasma focus x-ray lithography point source producing 70 nm line features in AlGaAs microcircuits

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Petr, Rodney; Bykanov, Alexander; Freshman, Jay; Reilly, Dennis; Mangano, Joseph; Roche, Maureen; Dickenson, Jason; Burte, Mitchell; Heaton, John

2004-08-01

A high average power dense plasma focus (DPF), x-ray point source has been used to produce ˜70 nm line features in AlGaAs-based monolithic millimeter-wave integrated circuits (MMICs). The DPF source has produced up to 12 J per pulse of x-ray energy into 4π steradians at ˜1 keV effective wavelength in ˜2 Torr neon at pulse repetition rates up to 60 Hz, with an effective x-ray yield efficiency of ˜0.8%. Plasma temperature and electron concentration are estimated from the x-ray spectrum to be ˜170 eV and ˜5.1019 cm-3, respectively. The x-ray point source utilizes solid-state pulse power technology to extend the operating lifetime of electrodes and insulators in the DPF discharge. By eliminating current reversals in the DPF head, an anode electrode has demonstrated a lifetime of more than 5 million shots. The x-ray point source has also been operated continuously for 8 h run times at 27 Hz average pulse recurrent frequency. Measurements of shock waves produced by the plasma discharge indicate that overpressure pulses must be attenuated before a collimator can be integrated with the DPF point source.

Progress of superconducting electron cyclotron resonance ion sources at Institute of Modern Physics (IMP).

PubMed

Sun, L; Lu, W; Feng, Y C; Zhang, W H; Zhang, X Z; Cao, Y; Zhao, Y Y; Wu, W; Yang, T J; Zhao, B; Zhao, H W; Ma, L Z; Xia, J W; Xie, D

2014-02-01

Superconducting ECR ion sources can produce intense highly charged ion beams for the application in heavy ion accelerators. Superconducting Electron Resonance ion source with Advanced Design (SECRAL) is one of the few fully superconducting ECR ion sources that has been successfully built and put into routine operation for years. With enormous efforts and R&D work, promising results have been achieved with the ion source. Heated by the microwave power from a 7 kW/24 GHz gyrotron microwave generator, very intense highly charged gaseous ion beams have been produced, such as 455 eμA Xe(27+), 236 eμA Xe(30+), and 64 eμA Xe(35+). Since heavy metallic ion beams are being more and more attractive and important for many accelerator projects globally, intensive studies have been made to produce highly charged heavy metal ion beams, such as those from bismuth and uranium. Recently, 420 eμA Bi(30+) and 202 eμA U(33+) have been produced with SECRAL source. This paper will present the latest results with SECRAL, and the operation status will be discussed as well. An introduction of recently started SECRAL II project will also be given in the presentation.

40 CFR 430.45 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Dissolving Sulfite Subcategory... dissolving sulfite pulp facilities where nitration grade pulp is produced] Pollutant or pollutant property Kg... dissolving sulfite pulp facilities where viscose grade pulp is produced] Pollutant or pollutant property Kg...

Effect of tapered magnetic field on expanding laser-produced plasma for heavy-ion inertial fusion

DOE PAGES

Kanesue, Takeshi; Ikeda, Shunsuke

2016-12-20

A laser ion source is a promising candidate as an ion source for heavy ion inertial fusion (HIF), where a pulsed ultra-intense and low-charged heavy ion beam is required. It is a key development for a laser ion source to transport laser-produced plasma with a magnetic field to achieve a high current beam. The effect of a tapered magnetic field on laser produced plasma is demonstrated by comparing the results with a straight solenoid magnet. The magnetic field of interest is a wider aperture on a target side and narrower aperture on an extraction side. Furthermore, based on the experimentallymore » obtained results, the performance of a scaled laser ion source for HIF was estimated.« less

Impurity mixing and radiation asymmetry in massive gas injection simulations of DIII-D

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Izzo, V. A.

Simulations of neon massive gas injection into DIII-D are performed with the 3D MHD code NIMROD. The poloidal and toroidal distribution of the impurity source is varied. This report will focus on the effects of the source variation on impurity mixing and radiated power asymmetry. Even toroidally symmetric impurity injection is found to produce asymmetric radiated power due to asymmetric convective heat flux produced by the 1/1 mode. When the gas source is toroidally localized, the phase relationship between the mode and the source location is important, affecting both radiation peaking and impurity mixing. Under certain circumstances, a single, localizedmore » gas jet could produce better radiation symmetry during the disruption thermal quench than evenly distributed impurities.« less

Method for producing uranium atomic beam source

DOEpatents

Krikorian, Oscar H.

1976-06-15

A method for producing a beam of neutral uranium atoms is obtained by vaporizing uranium from a compound UM.sub.x heated to produce U vapor from an M boat or from some other suitable refractory container such as a tungsten boat, where M is a metal whose vapor pressure is negligible compared to that of uranium at the vaporization temperature. The compound, for example, may be the uranium-rhenium compound, URe.sub.2. An evaporation rate in excess of about 10 times that of conventional uranium beam sources is produced.

Laser-produced lithium plasma as a narrow-band extended ultraviolet radiation source for photoelectron spectroscopy.

PubMed

Schriever, G; Mager, S; Naweed, A; Engel, A; Bergmann, K; Lebert, R

1998-03-01

Extended ultraviolet (EUV) emission characteristics of a laser-produced lithium plasma are determined with regard to the requirements of x-ray photoelectron spectroscopy. The main features of interest are spectral distribution, photon flux, bandwidth, source size, and emission duration. Laser-produced lithium plasmas are characterized as emitters of intense narrow-band EUV radiation. It can be estimated that the lithium Lyman-alpha line emission in combination with an ellipsoidal silicon/molybdenum multilayer mirror is a suitable EUV source for an x-ray photoelectron spectroscopy microscope with a 50-meV energy resolution and a 10-mum lateral resolution.

Development of measures to evaluate youth advocacy for obesity prevention.

PubMed

Millstein, Rachel A; Woodruff, Susan I; Linton, Leslie S; Edwards, Christine C; Sallis, James F

2016-07-26

Youth advocacy has been successfully used in substance use prevention but is a novel strategy in obesity prevention. As a precondition for building an evidence base for youth advocacy for obesity prevention, the present study aimed to develop and evaluate measures of youth advocacy mediator, process, and outcome variables. The Youth Engagement and Action for Health (YEAH!) program (San Diego County, CA) engaged youth and adult group leaders in advocacy for school and neighborhood improvements to nutrition and physical activity environments. Based on a model of youth advocacy, scales were developed to assess mediators, intervention processes, and proximal outcomes of youth advocacy for obesity prevention. Youth (baseline n = 136) and adult group leaders (baseline n = 47) completed surveys before and after advocacy projects. With baseline data, we created youth advocacy and adult leadership subscales using confirmatory factor analysis (CFA) and described their psychometric properties. Youth came from 21 groups, were ages 9-22, and most were female. Most youth were non-White, and the largest ethnic group was Hispanic/Latino (35.6%). The proposed factor structure held for most (14/20 youth and 1/2 adult) subscales. Modifications were necessary for 6 of the originally proposed 20 youth and 1 of the 2 adult multi-item subscales, which involved splitting larger subscales into two components and dropping low-performing items. Internally consistent scales to assess mediators, intervention processes, and proximal outcomes of youth advocacy for obesity prevention were developed. The resulting scales can be used in future studies to evaluate youth advocacy programs.

Method of producing a chemical hydride

DOEpatents

Klingler, Kerry M.; Zollinger, William T.; Wilding, Bruce M.; Bingham, Dennis N.; Wendt, Kraig M.

2007-11-13

A method of producing a chemical hydride is described and which includes selecting a composition having chemical bonds and which is capable of forming a chemical hydride; providing a source of a hydrocarbon; and reacting the composition with the source of the hydrocarbon to generate a chemical hydride.

40 CFR 430.45 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS (CONTINUED) THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Dissolving Sulfite... biocides: Subpart D [NSPS for dissolving sulfite pulp facilities where nitration grade pulp is produced... all times. Subpart D [NSPS for dissolving sulfite pulp facilities where viscose grade pulp is produced...

Source mechanics for monochromatic icequakes produced during iceberg calving at Columbia Glacier, AK

USGS Publications Warehouse

O'Neel, Shad; Pfeffer, W.T.

2007-01-01

Seismograms recorded during iceberg calving contain information pertaining to source processes during calving events. However, locally variable material properties may cause signal distortions, known as site and path effects, which must be eliminated prior to commenting on source mechanics. We applied the technique of horizontal/vertical spectral ratios to passive seismic data collected at Columbia Glacier, AK, and found no dominant site or path effects. Rather, monochromatic waveforms generated by calving appear to result from source processes. We hypothesize that a fluid-filled crack source model offers a potential mechanism for observed seismograms produced by calving, and fracture-processes preceding calving.

Braille in the United States: Its Production, Distribution, and Use.

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Goldish, Louis Harvey

The braille production system in the United States is described. Aspects treated are the following: the need for braille (the braille system), the market for braille (size and characteristics), sources of braille (producers and braille book source information), and present methods and costs of producing braille. Technological advances are…

Distinguishing the Source of Natural Gas Accumulations with a Combined Gas and Co-produced Formation Water Geochemical Approach: a Case Study from the Appalachian Basin

EPA Pesticide Factsheets

The purpose of this study is to discuss the use of gas and co-produced formation water geochemistry for identifying the source of natural gas and present gas geochemistry for the northern Appalachian Basin.

Identification of crude oil source facies in Railroad Valley, Nevada, using multivariate analysis of crude oil and hydrous pyrolysis data from the Meridian Spencer Federal 32-29 well

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Conlan, L.M.; Francis, R.D.

Comparison of biological markers of a hydrous pyrolyzate of Mississippian-Chainman Shale from the Meridian Spencer Federal 32-29 well with two crude oils produced from the same well and crude oils produced from Trap Springs, Grant Canyon, Bacon Flats, and Eagle Springs fields indicate the possibility of three distinct crude oil source facies within Railroad Valley, Nevada. The two crude oil samples produced in the Meridian Spencer Federal 32-29 well are from the Eocene Sheep Pass Formation (MSF-SP) at 10,570 ft and the Joana Limestone (MSF-J) at 13,943 ft; the pyrolyzate is from the Chainman Shale at 10,700 ft. The Chainmanmore » Shale pyrolyzate has a similar composition to oils produced in Trap Springs and Grant Canyon fields. Applying multivariate statistical analysis to biological marker data shows that the Chainman Shale is a possible source for oil produced at Trap Springs because of the similarities between Trap Springs oils and the Chainman Shale pyrolyzate. It is also apparent that MSF-SP and oils produced in the Eagle Springs field have been generated from a different source (probably the Sheep Pass Formation) because of the presence of gammacerane (C{sub 30}). MSF-J and Bacon Flats appear to be either sourced from a pre-Mississippian unit or from a different facies within the Chainman Shale because of the apparent differences between MSF-J and Chainman Shale pyrolyzate.« less

Biosurfactant production by Pseudomonas strains isolated from floral nectar.

PubMed

Ben Belgacem, Z; Bijttebier, S; Verreth, C; Voorspoels, S; Van de Voorde, I; Aerts, G; Willems, K A; Jacquemyn, H; Ruyters, S; Lievens, B

2015-06-01

To screen and identify biosurfactant-producing Pseudomonas strains isolated from floral nectar; to characterize the produced biosurfactants; and to investigate the effect of different carbon sources on biosurfactant production. Four of eight nectar Pseudomonas isolates were found to produce biosurfactants. Phylogenetic analysis based on three housekeeping genes (16S rRNA gene, rpoB and gyrB) classified the isolates into two groups, including one group closely related to Pseudomonas fluorescens and another group closely related to Pseudomonas fragi and Pseudomonas jessenii. Although our nectar pseudomonads were able to grow on a variety of water-soluble and water-immiscible carbon sources, surface active agents were only produced when using vegetable oil as sole carbon source, including olive oil, sunflower oil or waste frying sunflower oil. Structural characterization based on thin layer chromatography (TLC) and ultra high performance liquid chromatography-accurate mass mass spectrometry (UHPLC-amMS) revealed that biosurfactant activity was most probably due to the production of fatty acids (C16:0; C18:0; C18:1 and C18:2), and mono- and diglycerides thereof. Four biosurfactant-producing nectar pseudomonads were identified. The active compounds were identified as fatty acids (C16:0; C18:0; C18:1 and C18:2), and mono- and diglycerides thereof, produced by hydrolysis of triglycerides of the feedstock. Studies on biosurfactant-producing micro-organisms have mainly focused on microbes isolated from soils and aquatic environments. Here, for the first time, nectar environments were screened as a novel source for biosurfactant producers. As nectars represent harsh environments with high osmotic pressure and varying pH levels, further screening of nectar habitats for biosurfactant-producing microbes may lead to the discovery of novel biosurfactants with broad tolerance towards different environmental conditions. © 2015 The Society for Applied Microbiology.

From Waste to Watts: The fermentation of animal waste occuring in a digester producing methane gasses as a side product and converted to energy.

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Weiss, S.

2015-12-01

The waste product from animals is readily available all over the world, including third world countries. Using animal waste to produce green energy would allow low cost energy sources and give independence from fossil fuels. But which animal produces the most methane and how hard is it to harvest? Before starting this experiment I knew that some cow farms in the northern part of the Central California basin were using some of the methane from the waste to power their machinery as a safer, cheaper and greener source through the harnessed methane gas in a digester. The fermentation process would occur in the digester producing methane gasses as a side product. Methane that is collected can later be burned for energy. I have done a lot of research on this experiment and found that many different farm and ranch animals produce methane, but it was unclear which produced the most. I decided to focus my study on the waste from cows, horses, pig and dogs to try to find the most efficient and strongest source of methane from animal waste. I produced an affordable methane digester from plastic containers with a valve to attach a hose. By putting in the waste product and letting it ferment with water, I was able to produce and capture methane, then measure the amount with a Gaslab meter. By showing that it is possible to create energy with this simple digester, it could reduce pollution and make green energy easily available to communities all over the world. Eventually this could result into our sewer systems converting waste to energy, producing an energy source right in your home.

Temporal narrowing of neutrons produced by high-intensity short-pulse lasers

DOE PAGES

Higginson, D. P.; Vassura, L.; Gugiu, M. M.; ...

2015-07-28

The production of neutron beams having short temporal duration is studied using ultraintense laser pulses. Laser-accelerated protons are spectrally filtered using a laser-triggered microlens to produce a short duration neutron pulse via nuclear reactions induced in a converter material (LiF). This produces a ~3 ns duration neutron pulse with 10 4 n/MeV/sr/shot at 0.56 m from the laser-irradiated proton source. The large spatial separation between the neutron production and the proton source allows for shielding from the copious and undesirable radiation resulting from the laser-plasma interaction. Finally, this neutron pulse compares favorably to the duration of conventional accelerator sources andmore » should scale up with, present and future, higher energy laser facilities to produce brighter and shorter neutron beams for ultrafast probing of dense materials.« less

Variable energy, high flux, ground-state atomic oxygen source

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Chutjian, Ara (Inventor); Orient, Otto J. (Inventor)

1987-01-01

A variable energy, high flux atomic oxygen source is described which is comprised of a means for producing a high density beam of molecules which will emit O(-) ions when bombarded with electrons; a means of producing a high current stream of electrons at a low energy level passing through the high density beam of molecules to produce a combined stream of electrons and O(-) ions; means for accelerating the combined stream to a desired energy level; means for producing an intense magnetic field to confine the electrons and O(-) ions; means for directing a multiple pass laser beam through the combined stream to strip off the excess electrons from a plurality of the O(-) ions to produce ground-state O atoms within the combined stream; electrostatic deflection means for deflecting the path of the O(-) ions and the electrons in the combined stream; and, means for stopping the O(-) ions and the electrons and for allowing only the ground-state O atoms to continue as the source of the atoms of interest. The method and apparatus are also adaptable for producing other ground-state atoms and/or molecules.

From Animal Waste to Energy; A Study of Methane Gas converted to Energy.

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Weiss, S.

2016-12-01

Does animal waste produce enough harvestable energy to power a household, and if so, what animal's waste can produce the most methane that is usable. What can we power using this methane and how can we power these appliances within an average household using the produced methane from animal waste. The waste product from animals is readily available all over the world, including third world countries. Using animal waste to produce green energy would allow low cost energy sources and give independence from fossil fuels. But which animal produces the most methane and how hard is it to harvest? Before starting this experiment I knew that some cow farms in the northern part of the Central California basin were using some of the methane from the waste to power their machinery as a safer, cheaper and greener source through the harnessed methane gas in a digester. The fermentation process would occur in the digester producing methane gasses as a side product. Methane that is collected can later be burned for energy. I have done a lot of research on this experiment and found that many different farm and ranch animals produce methane, but it was unclear which produced the most. I decided to focus my study on the waste from cows, horses, pig and dogs to try to find the most efficient and strongest source of methane from animal waste. I produced an affordable methane digester from plastic containers with a valve to attach a hose. By putting in the waste product and letting it ferment with water, I was able to produce and capture methane, then measure the amount with a Gaslab meter. By showing that it is possible to create energy with this simple digester, it could reduce pollution and make green energy easily available to communities all over the world. Eventually this could result into our sewer systems converting waste to energy, producing an energy source right in your home.

Genetic improvement of plants for enhanced bio-ethanol production.

PubMed

Saha, Sanghamitra; Ramachandran, Srinivasan

2013-04-01

The present world energy situation urgently requires exploring and developing alternate, sustainable sources for fuel. Biofuels have proven to be an effective energy source but more needs to be produced to meet energy goals. Whereas first generation biofuels derived from mainly corn and sugarcane continue to be used and produced, the contentious debate between "feedstock versus foodstock" continues. The need for sources that can be grown under different environmental conditions has led to exploring newer sources. Lignocellulosic biomass is an attractive source for production of biofuel, but pretreatment costs to remove lignin are high and the process is time consuming. Genetically modified plants that have increased sugar or starch content, modified lignin content, or produce cellulose degrading enzymes are some options that are being explored and tested. This review focuses on current research on increasing production of biofuels by genetic engineering of plants to have desirable characteristics. Recent patents that have been filed in this area are also discussed.

Irrigation water sources and irrigation application methods used by U.S. plant nursery producers

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Paudel, Krishna P.; Pandit, Mahesh; Hinson, Roger

2016-02-01

We examine irrigation water sources and irrigation methods used by U.S. nursery plant producers using nested multinomial fractional regression models. We use data collected from the National Nursery Survey (2009) to identify effects of different firm and sales characteristics on the fraction of water sources and irrigation methods used. We find that regions, sales of plants types, farm income, and farm age have significant roles in what water source is used. Given the fraction of alternative water sources used, results indicated that use of computer, annual sales, region, and the number of IPM practices adopted play an important role in the choice of irrigation method. Based on the findings from this study, government can provide subsidies to nursery producers in water deficit regions to adopt drip irrigation method or use recycled water or combination of both. Additionally, encouraging farmers to adopt IPM may enhance the use of drip irrigation and recycled water in nursery plant production.

Health Advertising: The Credibility of Organizational Sources.

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Hammond, Sharon Lee

A study investigated the perceived source credibility of organizations that produce health messages. Manipulated versions of a health advertisement were generated to represent three types of organizational sources: a nonprofit source, a for-profit source, and a combination of for-profit and nonprofit sources. The advertisements were then produced…

All-source Information Management and Integration for Improved Collective Intelligence Production

DTIC Science & Technology

2011-06-01

Intelligence (ELINT) • Open Source Intelligence ( OSINT ) • Technical Intelligence (TECHINT) These intelligence disciplines produce... intelligence , measurement and signature intelligence , signals intelligence , and open - source data, in the production of intelligence . All- source intelligence ...All- Source Information Integration and Management) R&D Project 3 All- Source Intelligence

The design of a multisource americium-beryllium (Am-Be) neutron irradiation facility using MCNP for the neutronic performance calculation.

PubMed

Sogbadji, R B M; Abrefah, R G; Nyarko, B J B; Akaho, E H K; Odoi, H C; Attakorah-Birinkorang, S

2014-08-01

The americium-beryllium neutron irradiation facility at the National Nuclear Research Institute (NNRI), Ghana, was re-designed with four 20 Ci sources using Monte Carlo N-Particle (MCNP) code to investigate the maximum amount of flux that is produced by the combined sources. The results were compared with a single source Am-Be irradiation facility. The main objective was to enable us to harness the maximum amount of flux for the optimization of neutron activation analysis and to enable smaller sample sized samples to be irradiated. Using MCNP for the design construction and neutronic performance calculation, it was realized that the single-source Am-Be design produced a thermal neutron flux of (1.8±0.0007)×10(6) n/cm(2)s and the four-source Am-Be design produced a thermal neutron flux of (5.4±0.0007)×10(6) n/cm(2)s which is a factor of 3.5 fold increase compared to the single-source Am-Be design. The criticality effective, k(eff), of the single-source and the four-source Am-Be designs were found to be 0.00115±0.0008 and 0.00143±0.0008, respectively. Copyright © 2014 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

Isolation and properties of a Bacillus subtilis mutant unable to produce fructose-bisphosphatase.

PubMed Central

Fujita, Y; Freese, E

1981-01-01

A Bacillus subtilis mutation (gene symbol fdpA1), producing a deficiency of D-fructose-1,6-bisphosphate 1-phosphohydrolase (EC 3.1.3.11, fructose-bisphosphatase), was isolated and genetically purified. An fdpA1-containing mutant did not produce cross-reacting material. It grew on any carbon source that allowed growth of the standard strain except myo-inositol and D-gluconate. Because the mutant could grow on D-fructose, glycerol, or L-malate as the sole carbon source, B. subtilis can produce fructose-6-phosphate and the derived cell wall precursors from these carbon sources in the absence of fructose-bisphosphatase. In other words, during gluconeogenesis B. subtilis must be able to bypass this reaction. Fructose-bisphosphatase is also not needed for the sporulation of B., subtilis. The fdpA1 mutation has the pleiotropic consequence that mutants carrying it cannot produce inositol dehydrogenase (EC 1.1.1.18) and gluconate kinase (EC 2.7.1.12) under conditions that normally induce these enzymes. Images PMID:6257649

Tarjetas v.1.2015.7.23

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Burchard, Ross L.; Pierson, Kathleen P.; Trumbo, Derek

Tarjetas is used to generate requirements from source documents. These source documents are in a hierarchical XML format that have been produced from PDF documents processed through the “Reframe” software package. The software includes the ability to create Topics and associate text Snippets with those topics. Requirements are then generated and text Snippets with their associated Topics are referenced to the requirement. The software maintains traceability from the requirement ultimately to the source document that produced the snippet

Characteristics and reactivity of volatile organic compounds from non-coal emission sources in China

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

He, Qiusheng; Yan, Yulong; Li, Hongyan; Zhang, Yiqiang; Chen, Laiguo; Wang, Yuhang

2015-08-01

Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) were sampled from non-coal emission sources including fuel refueling, solvent use, industrial and commercial activities in China, and 62 target species were determined by gas chromatography-mass selective detector (GC-MSD). Based on the results, source profiles were developed and discussed from the aspects of composition characteristics, potential tracers, BTEX (benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene) diagnostic ratios and chemical reactivity. Compared with vehicle exhausts and liquid fuels, the major components in refueling emissions of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), gasoline and diesel were alkenes and alkanes. Oppositely, aromatics were the most abundant group in emissions from auto-painting, book binding and plastic producing. Three groups contributed nearly equally in printing and commercial cooking emissions. Acetone in medical producing, chloroform and tetrachloroethylene in wet- and dry-cleaning, as well as TEX in plastic producing etc. were good tracers for the respective sources. BTEX ratios showed that some but not all VOCs sources could be distinguished by B/T, B/E and B/X ratios, while T/E, T/X and E/X ratios were not suitable as diagnostic indicators of different sources. The following reactivity analysis indicated that emissions from gasoline refueling, commercial cooking, auto painting and plastic producing had high atmospheric reactivity, and should be controlled emphatically to prevent ozone pollution, especially when there were large amounts of emissions for them.

Historical sources of black carbon identified by PAHs and δ13C in Sanjiang Plain of Northeastern China

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Gao, Chuanyu; Liu, Hanxiang; Cong, Jinxin; Han, Dongxue; Zhao, Winston; Lin, Qianxin; Wang, Guoping

2018-05-01

Black carbon (BC), the byproduct of incomplete combustion of fossil fuels and biomass can be stored in soil for a long time and potentially archive changes in natural and human activities. Increasing amounts of BC has been produced from human activities during the past 150 years and has influenced global climate change and carbon cycle. Identifying historical BC sources is important in knowing how historical human activities influenced BC and BC transportation processes in the atmosphere. In this study, PAH components and δ13C-BC in peatland in the Sanjiang Plain were used for identifying and verifying regional BC sources during the last 150 years. Results showed that environment-unfriendly industry developed at the end of the 1950s produced a great amount of BC and contributed the most BC in this period. In other periods, however, BC in the Sanjiang Plain was mainly produced from incomplete biomass burning before the 1990s; particularly, slash-and-burn of pastures and forests during regional reclamation periods between the 1960s and 1980s produced a huge amount of biomass burning BC, which then deposited into the surrounding ecosystems. With the regional reclamation decreasing and environment-friendly industry developing, the proportion of BC emitted and deposited from transportation sources increased and transportation source became an important BC source in the Sanjiang Plain after the 1990s.

Biofilm formation, cellulose production, and curli biosynthesis by Salmonella originating from produce, animal, and clinical sources.

PubMed

Solomon, Ethan B; Niemira, Brendan A; Sapers, Gerald M; Annous, Bassam A

2005-05-01

The ability of 71 strains of Salmonella enterica originating from produce, meat, or clinical sources to form biofilms was investigated. A crystal violet binding assay demonstrated no significant differences in biofilm formation by isolates from any source when tested in any of the following three media: Luria-Bertani broth supplemented with 2% glucose, tryptic soy broth (TSB), or 1/20th-strength TSB. Incubation was overnight at 30 degrees C under static conditions. Curli production and cellulose production were monitored by assessing morphotypes on Luria-Bertani agar without salt containing Congo red and by assessing fluorescence on Luria-Bertani agar containing calcofluor, respectively. One hundred percent of the clinical isolates exhibited curli biosynthesis, and 73% demonstrated cellulose production. All meat-related isolates formed curli, and 84% produced cellulose. A total of 80% of produce-related isolates produced curli, but only 52% produced cellulose. Crystal violet binding was not statistically different between isolates representing the three morphotypes when grown in TSB; however, significant differences were observed when strains were cultured in the two other media tested. These data demonstrate that the ability to form biofilms is not dependent on the source of the test isolate and suggest a relationship between crystal violet binding and morphotype, with curli- and cellulose-deficient isolates being least effective in biofilm formation.

Overview of the potential and identified petroleum source rocks of the Appalachian basin, eastern United States: Chapter G.13 in Coal and petroleum resources in the Appalachian basin: distribution, geologic framework, and geochemical character

USGS Publications Warehouse

Coleman, James L.; Ryder, Robert T.; Milici, Robert C.; Brown, Stephen; Ruppert, Leslie F.; Ryder, Robert T.

2014-01-01

The Appalachian basin is the oldest and longest producing commercially viable petroleum-producing basin in the United States. Source rocks for reservoirs within the basin are located throughout the entire stratigraphic succession and extend geographically over much of the foreland basin and fold-and-thrust belt that make up the Appalachian basin. Major source rock intervals occur in Ordovician, Devonian, and Pennsylvanian strata with minor source rock intervals present in Cambrian, Silurian, and Mississippian strata.

Recent Development of IMP LECR3 Ion Source

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Zhang, Z.M.; Zhao, H.W.; Li, J.Y.

2005-03-15

18GHz microwave has been fed to the LECR3 ion source to produce intense highly charged ion beams although this ion source was designed for 14.5GHz. Then 1.1 emA Ar8+ and 325 e{mu}A Ar11+ were obtained at 18GHz. During the source running for atomic physics experiment, some higher charge state ion beams such as Ar17+ and Ar18+ were detected and have been validated by atomic physics method. Furthermore, a few special gases, e.g. SiH4 and SF6, were tested on LECR3 ion source to produce required ion beams to satisfy the requirements of atomic physics experiments.

Photoacoustic Effect Generated from an Expanding Spherical Source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Bai, Wenyu; Diebold, Gerald J.

2018-02-01

Although the photoacoustic effect is typically generated by amplitude-modulated continuous or pulsed radiation, the form of the wave equation for pressure that governs the generation of sound indicates that optical sources moving in an absorbing fluid can produce sound as well. Here, the characteristics of the acoustic wave produced by a radially symmetric Gaussian source expanding outwardly from the origin are found. The unique feature of the photoacoustic effect from the spherical source is a trailing compressive wave that arises from reflection of an inwardly propagating component of the wave. Similar to the one-dimensional geometry, an unbounded amplification effect is found for the Gaussian source expanding at the sound speed.

Soft x-ray contact imaging of biological specimens using a laser-produced plasma as an x-ray source

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Cheng, P.C.

The use of a laser-produced plasma as an x-ray source provides significant advantages over other types of sources for x-ray microradiography of, particularly, living biological specimens. The pulsed nature of the x-rays enables imaging of the specimen in a living state, and the small source size minimizes penumbral blurring. This makes it possible to make an exposure close to the source, thereby increasing the x-ray intensity. In this article, we will demonstrate the applications of x-ray contact microradiography in structural and developmental botany such as the localization of silica deposition and the floral morphologenesis of maize.

Production of magnesium metal

DOEpatents

Blencoe, James G [Harriman, TN; Anovitz, Lawrence M [Knoxville, TN; Palmer, Donald A [Oliver Springs, TN; Beard, James S [Martinsville, VA

2010-02-23

A process of producing magnesium metal includes providing magnesium carbonate, and reacting the magnesium carbonate to produce a magnesium-containing compound and carbon dioxide. The magnesium-containing compound is reacted to produce magnesium metal. The carbon dioxide is used as a reactant in a second process. In another embodiment of the process, a magnesium silicate is reacted with a caustic material to produce magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide is reacted with a source of carbon dioxide to produce magnesium carbonate. The magnesium carbonate is reacted to produce a magnesium-containing compound and carbon dioxide. The magnesium-containing compound is reacted to produce magnesium metal. The invention further relates to a process for production of magnesium metal or a magnesium compound where an external source of carbon dioxide is not used in any of the reactions of the process. The invention also relates to the magnesium metal produced by the processes described herein.

Backscatter absorption gas imaging systems and light sources therefore

DOEpatents

Kulp, Thomas Jan [Livermore, CA; Kliner, Dahv A. V. [San Ramon, CA; Sommers, Ricky [Oakley, CA; Goers, Uta-Barbara [Campbell, NY; Armstrong, Karla M [Livermore, CA

2006-12-19

The location of gases that are not visible to the unaided human eye can be determined using tuned light sources that spectroscopically probe the gases and cameras that can provide images corresponding to the absorption of the gases. The present invention is a light source for a backscatter absorption gas imaging (BAGI) system, and a light source incorporating the light source, that can be used to remotely detect and produce images of "invisible" gases. The inventive light source has a light producing element, an optical amplifier, and an optical parametric oscillator to generate wavelength tunable light in the IR. By using a multi-mode light source and an amplifier that operates using 915 nm pump sources, the power consumption of the light source is reduced to a level that can be operated by batteries for long periods of time. In addition, the light source is tunable over the absorption bands of many hydrocarbons, making it useful for detecting hazardous gases.

Using Stable Isotopes to Assess Connectivity: the Importance of Oceanic and Watershed Nitrogen Sources for Estuarine Primary Producers

EPA Science Inventory

Estuaries located at the interface of terrestrial and oceanic ecosystems receive nutrients from both ecosystems. Stable isotopes of primary producers and consumers are often used as an indicator of nutrient sources. We assembled natural abundance nitrogen stable isotope (δ15N) d...

40 CFR 63.11452 - What are the performance test requirements for new and existing sources?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v) Calculate the 3... = Average glass production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v... Glass Manufacturing Area Sources Standards, Compliance, and Monitoring Requirements § 63.11452 What are...

40 CFR 63.11452 - What are the performance test requirements for new and existing sources?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v) Calculate the 3... = Average glass production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v... Glass Manufacturing Area Sources Standards, Compliance, and Monitoring Requirements § 63.11452 What are...

40 CFR 63.11452 - What are the performance test requirements for new and existing sources?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v) Calculate the 3... = Average glass production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v... Glass Manufacturing Area Sources Standards, Compliance, and Monitoring Requirements § 63.11452 What are...

40 CFR 63.11452 - What are the performance test requirements for new and existing sources?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v) Calculate the 3... = Average glass production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v... Glass Manufacturing Area Sources Standards, Compliance, and Monitoring Requirements § 63.11452 What are...

40 CFR 63.11452 - What are the performance test requirements for new and existing sources?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v) Calculate the 3... = Average glass production rate for the performance test, kilograms (tons) of glass produced per hour. (v... Glass Manufacturing Area Sources Standards, Compliance, and Monitoring Requirements § 63.11452 What are...

Ecofriendly demulsification of water in oil emulsions by an efficient biodemulsifier producing bacterium isolated from oil contaminated environment.

PubMed

Sabati, Hoda; Motamedi, Hossein

2018-05-15

Water in oil emulsions increase oil processing costs and cause damage to refinery equipment which necessitates demulsification. Since chemical demulsifiers cause environmental pollution, biodemulsifiers have been paid more attention. This study aims to identify biodemulsifier-producing bacteria from petroleum contaminated environments. As a result, several biodemulsifier producing strains were found that Stenotrophomonas sp. strain HS7 (accession number: MF445088) which produced a cell associated biodemulsifier showed the highest demulsifying ratio, 98.57% for water in kerosene and 66.28% for water in crude oil emulsion after 48 h. 35 °C, pH 7, 48 h incubation and ammonium nitrate as nitrogen source were optimum conditions for biodemulsifier production. Furthermore, it was found that hydrophobic carbon sources like as liquid paraffin is not preferred as the sole carbon source while a combination of various carbon sources including liquid paraffin will increase demulsification efficiency of the biodemulsifier. The appropriate potential of this biodemulsifier strengthens the possibility of its application in industries especially petroleum industry.

How Source Affects Response to Public Service Advertising.

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Lynn, Jerry R.; And Others

1978-01-01

Reports that public service advertising attributed to the Advertising Council elicited higher message ratings than did public service advertising attributed to a commercial source, a noncommercial source, or no source; however, it produced the lowest behavioral responses. (GT)

Subsistence Food Production Practices: An Approach to Food Security and Good Health.

PubMed

Rankoana, Sejabaledi A

2017-10-05

Food security is a prerequisite for health. Availability and accessibility of food in rural areas is mainly achieved through subsistence production in which community members use local practices to produce and preserve food. Subsistence food production ensures self-sufficiency and reduction of poverty and hunger. The main emphasis with the present study is examining subsistence farming and collection of edible plant materials to fulfill dietary requirements, thereby ensuring food security and good health. Data collected from a purposive sample show that subsistence crops produced in the home-gardens and fields, and those collected from the wild, are sources of grain, vegetables and legumes. Sources of grain and legumes are produced in the home-gardens and fields, whereas vegetables sources are mostly collected in the wild and fewer in the home-gardens. These food sources have perceived health potential in child and maternal care of primary health care.

Method and Apparatus for the Portable Identification of Material Thickness and Defects Using Spatially Controlled Heat Application

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Cramer, K. Elliott (Inventor); Winfree, William P. (Inventor)

1999-01-01

A method and a portable apparatus for the nondestructive identification of defects in structures. The apparatus comprises a heat source and a thermal imager that move at a constant speed past a test surface of a structure. The thermal imager is off set at a predetermined distance from the heat source. The heat source induces a constant surface temperature. The imager follows the heat source and produces a video image of the thermal characteristics of the test surface. Material defects produce deviations from the constant surface temperature that move at the inverse of the constant speed. Thermal noise produces deviations that move at random speed. Computer averaging of the digitized thermal image data with respect to the constant speed minimizes noise and improves the signal of valid defects. The motion of thermographic equipment coupled with the high signal to noise ratio render it suitable for portable, on site analysis.

Synfuel production in nuclear reactors

DOEpatents

Henning, C.D.

Apparatus and method for producing synthetic fuels and synthetic fuel components by using a neutron source as the energy source, such as a fusion reactor. Neutron absorbers are disposed inside a reaction pipe and are heated by capturing neutrons from the neutron source. Synthetic fuel feedstock is then placed into contact with the heated neutron absorbers. The feedstock is heated and dissociates into its constituent synfuel components, or alternatively is at least preheated sufficiently to use in a subsequent electrolysis process to produce synthetic fuels and synthetic fuel components.

Biological treatment process for removing petroleum hydrocarbons from oil field produced waters

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Tellez, G.; Khandan, N.

1995-12-31

The feasibility of removing petroleum hydrocarbons from oil fields produced waters using biological treatment was evaluated under laboratory and field conditions. Based on previous laboratory studies, a field-scale prototype system was designed and operated over a period of four months. Two different sources of produced waters were tested in this field study under various continuous flow rates ranging from 375 1/D to 1,800 1/D. One source of produced water was an open storage pit; the other, a closed storage tank. The TDS concentrations of these sources exceeded 50,000 mg/l; total n-alkanes exceeded 100 mg/l; total petroleum hydrocarbons exceeded 125 mg/l;more » and total BTEX exceeded 3 mg/l. Removals of total n-alkanes, total petroleum hydrocarbons, and BTEX remained consistently high over 99%. During these tests, the energy costs averaged $0.20/bbl at 12 bbl/D.« less

A panorama of bacterial inulinases: Production, purification, characterization and industrial applications.

PubMed

Singh, Ram Sarup; Chauhan, Kanika; Kennedy, John F

2017-03-01

Inulinases are important hydrolysing enzymes which specifically act on β-2, 1 linkages of inulin to produce fructose or fructooligosaccharides. Fungi, yeasts and bacteria are the potent microbial sources of inulinases. The data on bacterial inulinases is scarce as compared to other microbial sources. Inulinases yield from bacteria is very less as compared to fungal and yeast sources of inulinases. Submerged fermentation (SmF) is the method of choice for the production of inulinases from bacterial sources. Moreover, inulin is a potent substrate for the production of inulinases in SmF. Many bacterial inulinases have been reported to display magnificent environment abiding features and variability in their biophysical and biochemical properties. These properties have attracted intention of many researchers towards exploring adverse ecological niches for more distinctive inulinase producing bacterial strains. Inulinases are substantially important in current biotechnological era due to their numerous industrial applications. High fructose syrup and fructooligosaccharides are two major industrial applications of inulinases. Additionally, there are many reports on the production of various metabolites like citric acid, lactic acid, ethanol, biofuels, butanediol etc. using mixed cultures of inulinase producing organisms with other microorganisms. The present review mainly envisages inulinase producing bacterial sources, inulinase production, purification, characterization and their applications. Copyright © 2016 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

Poly-β-hydroxybutyrate and exopolysaccharide biosynthesis by bacterial isolates from pigeonpea [Cajanus cajan (L.) Millsp] root nodules.

PubMed

Fernandes, Paulo Ivan; de Oliveira, Paulo Jansen; Rumjanek, Norma Gouvêa; Xavier, Gustavo Ribeiro

2011-02-01

The bacterial strains that are able to produce biopolymers that are applied in industrial sectors present a source of renewable resources. Some microorganisms are already applied at several industrial sectors, but the prospecting of new microbes must bring microorganisms that are feasible to produce interesting biopolymers more efficiently and in cheaper conditions. Among the biopolymers applied industrially, polyhydroxybutyrate (PHB) and exopolysaccharides (EPS) stand out because of its applications, mainly in biodegradable plastic production and in food industry, respectively. In this context, the capacity of bacteria isolated from pigeonpea root nodules to produce EPS and PHB was evaluated, as well as the cultural characterization of these isolates. Among the 38 isolates evaluated, the majority presented fast growth and ability to acidify the culture media. Regarding the biopolymer production, five isolates produced more than 10 mg PHB per liter of culture medium. Six EPS producing bacteria achieved more than 200 mg EPS per liter of culture medium. Evaluating different carbon sources, the PHB productivity of the isolate 24.6b reached 69% of cell dry weight when cultured with starch as sole carbon source, and the isolate 8.1c synthesized 53% PHB in dry cell biomass and more than 1.3 g L⁻¹ of EPS when grown using xylose as sole carbon source.

Toward Understanding the Fanaroff-Riley Dichotomy in Radio Source Morphology and Power

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Baum, Stefi A.; Zirbel, Esther L.; O'Dea, Christopher P.

1995-09-01

In Paper I we presented the results of a study of the interrelationships between host galaxy magnitude, optical line luminosity, and radio luminosity in a large sample of Fanaroff-Riley classes 1 and 2 (FR 1 and FR 2) radio galaxies. We report several important differences between the FR 1 and FR 2 radio galaxies. At the same host galaxy magnitude or radio luminosity, the FR 2's produce substantially more optical line emission (by roughly an order of magnitude or more) than do FR 1's. Similarly, FR 2 sources produce orders of magnitude more line luminosity than do radio-quiet galaxies of the same optical magnitude, while FR 1 sources and radio-quiet galaxies of the same optical magnitude produce similar line luminosities. Combining these results with previous results from the literature, we conclude that while the emission-line gas in the FR 2's is indeed photoionized by a nuclear UV continuum source from the AGN, the emission-line gas in the FR 1's may be energized predominantly by processes associated with the host galaxy itself. The apparent lack of a strong UV continuum source from the central engine in FR 1 sources can be understood in two different ways. In the first scenario, FR l's are much more efficient at covering jet bulk kinetic energy into radio luminosity than FR 2's, such that an FR 1 has a much lower bolometric AGN luminosity (hence nuclear UV continuum source) than does an FR 2 of the same radio luminosity. We discuss the pros and cons of this model and conclude that the efficiency differences needed between FR 2 and FR 1 radio galaxies are quite large and may lead to difficulties with the interpretation since it would suggest that FR 2 radio source deposit very large amounts of kinetic energy into the ISM Intracluster Medium. However, this interpretation remains viable. Alternatively, it may be that the AGNs in FR 1 sources simply produce far less radiant UV energy than do those in FR 2 sources. That is, FR 1 sources may funnel a higher fraction of the total energy output from the AGNs into jet kinetic energy versus radiant energy than do FR 2 sources. If this interpretation is correct, then this suggests that there is a fundamental difference in the central engine and/or in the immediate "accretion region" around the engine in FR 1 and FR 2 radio galaxies. We note also the absence of FR 1 sources with nuclear broad line regions and suggest that the absence of the BLR is tied to the absence of the "isotropic" nuclear UV continuum source in FR 1 sources. We put forth the possibility that the FR 1/FR 2 dichotomy (i.e., the observed differences in the properties of low- and high-power radio sources) is due to qualitative differences in the structural properties of the central engines in these two types of sources. Following early work by Rees et al. (1982), we suggest the possibility that FR 1 sources are produced when the central engine is fed at a lower accretion rate, leading to the creation of a source in which the ratio of radiant to jet bulk kinetic energy is low, while FR 2 sources are produced when the central engine is fed at a higher accretion rate, causing the central engine to deposit a higher fraction of its energy in radiant energy. We further suggest the possibility that associated differences in the spin properties of the central black hole between FR 1 (lower spin) and FR 2 (higher spin) sources may be responsible for the different collimation properties and Mach numbers of the jets produced by these two types of radio-loud galaxies. This scenario, although currently clearly speculative, is nicely consistent with our current picture of the triggering, feeding, environments, and evolution of powerful radio galaxies. This model allows for evolution of these properties with time for example, the mass accretion rate and BH spin may decline with time causing an FR 2 radio source or quasar to evolve into a FR 1 radio source.

Clast comminution during pyroclastic density current transport: Mt St Helens

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dawson, B.; Brand, B. D.; Dufek, J.

2011-12-01

Volcanic clasts within pyroclastic density currents (PDCs) tend to be more rounded than those in fall deposits. This rounding reflects degrees of comminution during transport, which produces an increase in fine-grained ash with distance from source (Manga, M., Patel, A., Dufek., J. 2011. Bull Volcanol 73: 321-333). The amount of ash produced due to comminution can potentially affect runout distance, deposit sorting, the volume of ash lofted into the upper atmosphere, and increase internal pore pressure (e.g., Wohletz, K., Sheridan, M. F., Brown, W.K. 1989. J Geophy Res, 94, 15703-15721). For example, increased pore pressure has been shown to produce longer runout distances than non-comminuted PDC flows (e.g., Dufek, J., and M. Manga, 2008. J. Geophy Res, 113). We build on the work of Manga et al., (2011) by completing a pumice abrasion study for two well-exposed flow units from the May 18th, 1980 eruption of Mt St Helens (MSH). To quantify differences in comminution from source, sampling and the image analysis technique developed in Manga et al., 2010 was completed at distances proximal, medial, and distal from source. Within the units observed, data was taken from the base, middle, and pumice lobes within the outcrops. Our study is unique in that in addition to quantifying the degree of pumice rounding with distance from source, we also determine the possible range of ash sizes produced during comminution by analyzing bubble wall thickness of the pumice through petrographic and SEM analysis. The proportion of this ash size is then measured relative to the grain size of larger ash with distance from source. This allows us to correlate ash production with degree of rounding with distance from source, and determine the fraction of the fine ash produced due to comminution versus vent-fragmentation mechanisms. In addition we test the error in 2D analysis by completing a 3D image analysis of selected pumice samples using a Camsizer. We find that the roundness of PDC pumice at MSH increases with distance from source, as does the quantity of fine-grained ash. In addition, we have made the first steps towards determining the proportion of fine ash produced by comminution with distance from source. These results are being tested by numerical methods to understand the effect of an increase in fine ash on overall flow dynamics of the PDCs in which they were produced.

Assessing the feasibility of using produced water for irrigation in Colorado.

PubMed

Dolan, Flannery C; Cath, Tzahi Y; Hogue, Terri S

2018-06-01

The Colorado Water Plan estimates as much as 0.8 million irrigated acres may dry up statewide from agricultural to municipal and industrial transfers. To help mitigate this loss, new sources of water are being explored in Colorado. One such source may be produced water. Oil and gas production in 2016 alone produced over 300 million barrels of produced water. Currently, the most common method of disposal of produced water is deep well injection, which is costly and has been shown to cause induced seismicity. Treating this water to agricultural standards eliminates the need to dispose of this water and provides a new source of water. This research explores which counties in Colorado may be best suited to reusing produced water for agriculture based on a combined index of need, quality of produced water, and quantity of produced water. The volumetric impact of using produced water for agricultural needs is determined for the top six counties. Irrigation demand is obtained using evapotranspiration estimates from a range of methods, including remote sensing products and ground-based observations. The economic feasibility of treating produced water to irrigation standards is also determined using an integrated decision selection tool (iDST). We find that produced water can make a substantial volumetric impact on irrigation demand in some counties. Results from the iDST indicate that while costs of treating produced water are higher than the cost of injection into private disposal wells, the costs are much less than disposal into commercial wells. The results of this research may aid in the transition between viewing produced water as a waste product and using it as a tool to help secure water for the arid west. Copyright © 2018 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

Compton tomography system

DOEpatents

Grubsky, Victor; Romanoov, Volodymyr; Shoemaker, Keith; Patton, Edward Matthew; Jannson, Tomasz

2016-02-02

A Compton tomography system comprises an x-ray source configured to produce a planar x-ray beam. The beam irradiates a slice of an object to be imaged, producing Compton-scattered x-rays. The Compton-scattered x-rays are imaged by an x-ray camera. Translation of the object with respect to the source and camera or vice versa allows three-dimensional object imaging.

Developing Biofuel in the Teaching Laboratory: Ethanol from Various Sources

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Epstein, Jessica L.; Vieira, Matthew; Aryal, Binod; Vera, Nicolas; Solis, Melissa

2010-01-01

In this series of experiments, we mimic a small-scale ethanol plant. Students discover that the practical aspects of ethanol production are determined by the quantity of biomass produced per unit land, rather than the volume of ethanol produced per unit of biomass. These experiments explore the production of ethanol from different sources: fruits,…

Multi-point laser ignition device

DOEpatents

McIntyre, Dustin L.; Woodruff, Steven D.

2017-01-17

A multi-point laser device comprising a plurality of optical pumping sources. Each optical pumping source is configured to create pumping excitation energy along a corresponding optical path directed through a high-reflectivity mirror and into substantially different locations within the laser media thereby producing atomic optical emissions at substantially different locations within the laser media and directed along a corresponding optical path of the optical pumping source. An output coupler and one or more output lenses are configured to produce a plurality of lasing events at substantially different times, locations or a combination thereof from the multiple atomic optical emissions produced at substantially different locations within the laser media. The laser media is a single continuous media, preferably grown on a single substrate.

Emittance of positron beams produced in intense laser plasma interaction

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Chen Hui; Hazi, A.; Link, A.

2013-01-15

The first measurement of the emittance of intense laser-produced positron beams has been made. The emittance values were derived through measurements of positron beam divergence and source size for different peak positron energies under various laser conditions. For one of these laser conditions, we used a one dimensional pepper-pot technique to refine the emittance value. The laser-produced positrons have a geometric emittance between 100 and 500 mm{center_dot}mrad, comparable to the positron sources used at existing accelerators. With 10{sup 10}-10{sup 12} positrons per bunch, this low emittance beam, which is quasi-monoenergetic in the energy range of 5-20 MeV, may be usefulmore » as an alternative positron source for future accelerators.« less

High average power, highly brilliant laser-produced plasma source for soft X-ray spectroscopy.

PubMed

Mantouvalou, Ioanna; Witte, Katharina; Grötzsch, Daniel; Neitzel, Michael; Günther, Sabrina; Baumann, Jonas; Jung, Robert; Stiel, Holger; Kanngiesser, Birgit; Sandner, Wolfgang

2015-03-01

In this work, a novel laser-produced plasma source is presented which delivers pulsed broadband soft X-radiation in the range between 100 and 1200 eV. The source was designed in view of long operating hours, high stability, and cost effectiveness. It relies on a rotating and translating metal target and achieves high stability through an on-line monitoring device using a four quadrant extreme ultraviolet diode in a pinhole camera arrangement. The source can be operated with three different laser pulse durations and various target materials and is equipped with two beamlines for simultaneous experiments. Characterization measurements are presented with special emphasis on the source position and emission stability of the source. As a first application, a near edge X-ray absorption fine structure measurement on a thin polyimide foil shows the potential of the source for soft X-ray spectroscopy.

Collison nebulizer as a new soft ionization source for mass spectrometry

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Pervukhin, V. V.; Sheven', D. G.; Kolomiets, Yu. N.

2016-08-01

We have proposed that a Collison-type nebulizer be used as an ionization source for mass spectrometry with ionization under atmospheric pressure. This source does not require the use of electric voltage, radioactive sources, heaters, or liquid pumps. It has been shown that the number of ions produced by the 63Ni radioactive source is three to four times larger than the number of ions produced by acoustic ionization sources. We have considered the possibility of using a Collison-type nebulizer in combination with a vortex focusing system as an ion source for extractive ionization of compounds under atmospheric pressure. The ionization of volatile substances in crossflows of a charged aerosol and an analyte (for model compounds of the amine class, viz., diethylaniline, triamylamine, and cocaine) has been investigated. It has been shown that the limit of detecting cocaine vapor by this method is on the level of 4.6 × 10-14 g/cm3.

Illumination-redistribution lenses for non-circular spots

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Parkyn, William A.; Pelka, David G.

2005-08-01

The design of illumination lenses is far easier under the regime of the small-source approximation, whereby central rays are taken as representative of the entire source. This implies that the lens is much larger than the source's active emitter, and its entire interior surface is nowhere close to the source. Also, a given source luminance requires a minimum lens area to achieve the candlepower necessary for target illumination. We introduce two-surface aspheric lenses for specific illuminations tasks involving ceiling-mounted downlights, lenses that achieve uniform illuminance at the output aperture as well as at the target. This means that squared-off lenses will produce square spots. In particular, a semicircular lens and a vertical mirror will produce a semicircular spot suitable for gambling tables.

A 60 mA DC H- multi cusp ion source developed at TRIUMF

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Jayamanna, K.; Ames, F.; Bylinskii, I.; Lovera, M.; Minato, B.

2018-07-01

This paper describes the latest high-current multi cusp type ion source developed at TRIUMF, which is capable of producing a negative hydrogen ion beam (H-) of 60 mA of direct current at 140V and 90A arc. The results achieved to date including emittance measurements and filament lifetime issues are presented. The low current version of this ion source is suitable for medical cyclotrons as well as accelerators and the high current version is intended for producing large neutral hydrogen beams for fusion research. The description of the source magnetic configuration, the electron filter profile and the differential pumping techniques given in the paper will allow the building of an arc discharge H- ion source with similar properties.

Very Large Area/Volume Microwave ECR Plasma and Ion Source

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Foster, John E. (Inventor); Patterson, Michael J. (Inventor)

2009-01-01

The present invention is an apparatus and method for producing very large area and large volume plasmas. The invention utilizes electron cyclotron resonances in conjunction with permanent magnets to produce dense, uniform plasmas for long life ion thruster applications or for plasma processing applications such as etching, deposition, ion milling and ion implantation. The large area source is at least five times larger than the 12-inch wafers being processed to date. Its rectangular shape makes it easier to accommodate to materials processing than sources that are circular in shape. The source itself represents the largest ECR ion source built to date. It is electrodeless and does not utilize electromagnets to generate the ECR magnetic circuit, nor does it make use of windows.

Optimization of Cellulase Production from Bacteria Isolated from Soil

PubMed Central

Sethi, Sonia; Datta, Aparna; Gupta, B. Lal; Gupta, Saksham

2013-01-01

Cellulase-producing bacteria were isolated from soil and identified as Pseudomonas fluorescens, Bacillus subtilIs, E. coli, and Serratia marcescens. Optimization of the fermentation medium for maximum cellulase production was carried out. The culture conditions like pH, temperature, carbon sources, and nitrogen sources were optimized. The optimum conditions found for cellulase production were 40°C at pH 10 with glucose as carbon source and ammonium sulphate as nitrogen source, and coconut cake stimulates the production of cellulase. Among bacteria, Pseudomonas fluorescens is the best cellulase producer among the four followed by Bacillus subtilis, E. coli, and Serratia marscens. PMID:25937986

Feasibility of producing a range of food products from a limited range of undifferenitiated major food components

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Karel, M.; Kamarei, A. R.

1984-01-01

This report reviews current knowledge associated with producing safe, nutritious, and acceptable foods from a limited number of source independent macronutrients. The advantages, and disadvantages, of such an approach for use by space crews are discussed. The production of macronutrients from a variety of sources is covered in detail. The sources analyzed are: wheat, soybeans, algae (3 genera), glycerol, and digested cellulose. Fabrication of food from the above macronutrient sources is discussed and particular attention is addressed to nutrition, acceptability and reliability. The processes and concepts involved in food fabrication and macronutrient production are also considered for utilization in a space environment.

Light sources based on semiconductor current filaments

DOEpatents

Zutavern, Fred J.; Loubriel, Guillermo M.; Buttram, Malcolm T.; Mar, Alan; Helgeson, Wesley D.; O'Malley, Martin W.; Hjalmarson, Harold P.; Baca, Albert G.; Chow, Weng W.; Vawter, G. Allen

2003-01-01

The present invention provides a new type of semiconductor light source that can produce a high peak power output and is not injection, e-beam, or optically pumped. The present invention is capable of producing high quality coherent or incoherent optical emission. The present invention is based on current filaments, unlike conventional semiconductor lasers that are based on p-n junctions. The present invention provides a light source formed by an electron-hole plasma inside a current filament. The electron-hole plasma can be several hundred microns in diameter and several centimeters long. A current filament can be initiated optically or with an e-beam, but can be pumped electrically across a large insulating region. A current filament can be produced in high gain photoconductive semiconductor switches. The light source provided by the present invention has a potentially large volume and therefore a potentially large energy per pulse or peak power available from a single (coherent) semiconductor laser. Like other semiconductor lasers, these light sources will emit radiation at the wavelength near the bandgap energy (for GaAs 875 nm or near infra red). Immediate potential applications of the present invention include high energy, short pulse, compact, low cost lasers and other incoherent light sources.

Volatile organic compounds of Thai honeys produced from several floral sources by different honey bee species.

PubMed

Pattamayutanon, Praetinee; Angeli, Sergio; Thakeow, Prodpran; Abraham, John; Disayathanoowat, Terd; Chantawannakul, Panuwan

2017-01-01

The volatile organic compounds (VOCs) of four monofloral and one multifloral of Thai honeys produced by Apis cerana, Apis dorsata and Apis mellifera were analyzed by headspace solid-phase microextraction (HS-SPME) followed by gas chromatography and mass spectrometry (GC-MS). The floral sources were longan, sunflower, coffee, wild flowers (wild) and lychee. Honey originating from longan had more VOCs than all other floral sources. Sunflower honey had the least numbers of VOCs. cis-Linalool oxide, trans-linalool oxide, ho-trienol, and furan-2,5-dicarbaldehyde were present in all the honeys studied, independent of their floral origin. Interestingly, 2-phenylacetaldehyde was detected in all honey sample except longan honey produced by A. cerana. Thirty-two VOCs were identified as possible floral markers. After validating differences in honey volatiles from different floral sources and honeybee species, the results suggest that differences in quality and quantity of honey volatiles are influenced by both floral source and honeybee species. The group of honey volatiles detected from A. cerana was completely different from those of A. mellifera and A. dorsata. VOCs could therefore be applied as chemical markers of honeys and may reflect preferences of shared floral sources amongst different honeybee species.

Crowdsourcing: Global search and the twisted roles of consumers and producers.

PubMed

Bauer, Robert M; Gegenhuber, Thomas

2015-09-01

Crowdsourcing spreads and morphs quickly, shaping areas as diverse as creating, organizing, and sharing knowledge; producing digital artifacts; providing services involving tangible assets; or monitoring and evaluating. Crowdsourcing as sourcing by means of 'global search' yields four types of values for sourcing actors: creative expertise, critical items, execution capacity, and bargaining power. It accesses cheap excess capacities at the work realm's margins, channeling them toward production. Provision and utilization of excess capacities rationalize society while intimately connecting to a broader societal trend twisting consumers' and producers' roles: leading toward 'working consumers' and 'consuming producers' and shifting power toward the latter. Similarly, marketers using crowdsourcing's look and feel to camouflage traditional approaches to bringing consumers under control preserve producer power.

Treatment of gas from an in situ conversion process

DOEpatents

Diaz, Zaida [Katy, TX; Del Paggio, Alan Anthony [Spring, TX; Nair, Vijay [Katy, TX; Roes, Augustinus Wilhelmus Maria [Houston, TX

2011-12-06

A method of producing methane is described. The method includes providing formation fluid from a subsurface in situ conversion process. The formation fluid is separated to produce a liquid stream and a first gas stream. The first gas stream includes olefins. At least the olefins in the first gas stream are contacted with a hydrogen source in the presence of one or more catalysts and steam to produce a second gas stream. The second gas stream is contacted with a hydrogen source in the presence of one or more additional catalysts to produce a third gas stream. The third gas stream includes methane.

EUV laser produced and induced plasmas for nanolithography

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sizyuk, Tatyana; Hassanein, Ahmed

2017-10-01

EUV produced plasma sources are being extensively studied for the development of new technology for computer chips production. Challenging tasks include optimization of EUV source efficiency, producing powerful source in 2 percentage bandwidth around 13.5 nm for high volume manufacture (HVM), and increasing the lifetime of collecting optics. Mass-limited targets, such as small droplet, allow to reduce contamination of chamber environment and mirror surface damage. However, reducing droplet size limits EUV power output. Our analysis showed the requirement for the target parameters and chamber conditions to achieve 500 W EUV output for HVM. The HEIGHTS package was used for the simulations of laser produced plasma evolution starting from laser interaction with solid target, development and expansion of vapor/plasma plume with accurate optical data calculation, especially in narrow EUV region. Detailed 3D modeling of mix environment including evolution and interplay of plasma produced by lasers from Sn target and plasma produced by in-band and out-of-band EUV radiation in ambient gas, used for the collecting optics protection and cleaning, allowed predicting conditions in entire LPP system. Effect of these conditions on EUV photon absorption and collection was analyzed. This work is supported by the National Science Foundation, PIRE project.

Contributions of solar wind and micrometeoroids to molecular hydrogen in the lunar exosphere

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Hurley, Dana M.; Cook, Jason C.; Retherford, Kurt D.; Greathouse, Thomas; Gladstone, G. Randall; Mandt, Kathleen; Grava, Cesare; Kaufmann, David; Hendrix, Amanda; Feldman, Paul D.; Pryor, Wayne; Stickle, Angela; Killen, Rosemary M.; Stern, S. Alan

2017-02-01

We investigate the density and spatial distribution of the H2 exosphere of the Moon assuming various source mechanisms. Owing to its low mass, escape is non-negligible for H2. For high-energy source mechanisms, a high percentage of the released molecules escape lunar gravity. Thus, the H2 spatial distribution for high-energy release processes reflects the spatial distribution of the source. For low energy release mechanisms, the escape rate decreases and the H2 redistributes itself predominantly to reflect a thermally accommodated exosphere. However, a small dependence on the spatial distribution of the source is superimposed on the thermally accommodated distribution in model simulations, where density is locally enhanced near regions of higher source rate. For an exosphere accommodated to the local surface temperature, a source rate of 2.2 g s-1 is required to produce a steady state density at high latitude of 1200 cm-3. Greater source rates are required to produce the same density for more energetic release mechanisms. Physical sputtering by solar wind and direct delivery of H2 through micrometeoroid bombardment can be ruled out as mechanisms for producing and liberating H2 into the lunar exosphere. Chemical sputtering by the solar wind is the most plausible as a source mechanism and would require 10-50% of the solar wind H+ inventory to be converted to H2 to account for the observations.

Contributions of Solar Wind and Micrometeoroids to Molecular Hydrogen in the Lunar Exosphere

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Hurley, Dana M.; Cook, Jason C.; Retherford, Kurt D.; Greathouse, Thomas; Gladstone, G. Randall; Mandt, Kathleen; Grava, Cesare; Kaufmann, David; Hendrix, Amanda; Feldman, Paul D.;

Prevalence and characteristics of ESBL-producing E. coli in Dutch recreational waters influenced by wastewater treatment plants.

PubMed

Blaak, Hetty; de Kruijf, Patrick; Hamidjaja, Raditijo A; van Hoek, Angela H A M; de Roda Husman, Ana Maria; Schets, Franciska M

2014-07-16

Outside health care settings, people may acquire ESBL-producing bacteria through different exposure routes, including contact with human or animal carriers or consumption of contaminated food. However, contact with faecally contaminated surface water may also represent a possible exposure route. The current study investigated the prevalence and characteristics of ESBL-producing Escherichia coli in four Dutch recreational waters and the possible role of nearby waste water treatment plants (WWTP) as contamination source. Isolates from recreational waters were compared with isolates from WWTP effluents, from surface water upstream of the WWTPs, at WWTP discharge points, and in connecting water bodies not influenced by the studied WWTPs. ESBL-producing E. coli were detected in all four recreational waters, with an average concentration of 1.3 colony forming units/100ml, and in 62% of all samples. In surface waters not influenced by the studied WWTPs, ESBL-producing E. coli were detected in similar concentrations, indicating the existence of additional ESBL-E. coli contamination sources. Isolates with identical ESBL-genes, phylogenetic background, antibiotic resistance profiles, and sequence type, were obtained from effluent and different surface water sites in the same watershed, on the same day; occasionally this included isolates from recreational waters. Recreational waters were identified as a potential exposure source of ESBL-producing E. coli. WWTPs were shown to contribute to the presence of these bacteria in surface waters, but other (yet unidentified) sources likely co-contribute. Copyright © 2014 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

Method for producing aldehyde from CO.sub.2

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Liao, James C.; Atsumi, Shota

2015-09-29

The invention provides recombinant microorganisms capable of producing isobutyraldehyde using CO.sub.2 as a carbon source. The invention further provides methods of preparing and using such microorganisms to produce isobutyraldehyde.

Commentary: Advances in Research on Sourcing-Source Credibility and Reliable Processes for Producing Knowledge Claims

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Chinn, Clark A.; Rinehart, Ronald W.

2016-01-01

In our commentary on this excellent set of articles on "Sourcing in the Reading Process," we endeavor to synthesize the findings from the seven articles and discuss future research. We discuss significant contributions related to source memory, source evaluation, use of sources in action and belief, integration of information from…

Keratinase from newly isolated strain of thermophilic Bacillus for chicken feed modification

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Larasati, Ditya; Tsurayya, Nur; Koentjoro, Maharani Pertiwi; Prasetyo, Endry Nugroho

2017-06-01

Keratinase producing bacteria were isolated from Dieng crater and Mojokerto chicken farm. The screening was done by clear zone method. The strains were selected as they produced clear zones suggesting the presence of keratinolytic activity. The clear zone on FM media depended on both the source and activity of keratinase produced by keratinolytic bacteria. Based on keratinase production and activity, Bacillus sp. SLII-1 was selected for further studies. Keratinase produced by Bacillus sp. SLII-1 capable of producing crude keratinase with 2.08 (mg/second)/ml enzyme activity which able to increase digestibility of feather meal until 22.06% based on soluble protein level. Broiler chicken (Gallus domesticus) that consumed feed containing 5% feather meal indicated production performance of 1194.8 gram/head of feed consumption, 567 gram/head of addition of weight, and 2.1 of feed conversion ratio. An enzymatic engineered chicken feathers waste showed the performance of broiler chicken that is better than soybean meal as conventional sources of protein but could not yet substitute the use of conventional protein sources of fishmeal.

From Waste to Wealth: Using Produced Water for Agriculture in Colorado

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dolan, F.; Hogue, T. S.

2017-12-01

According to estimates from the Colorado Water Plan, the state's population may double by 2050. Due to increasing demand, as much as 0.8 million irrigated acres may dry up statewide from agricultural to municipal and industrial transfers. To help mitigate this loss, new sources of water are being explored in Colorado. One such source may be produced water. Oil and gas production in 2016 alone produced over 300 million barrels of produced water. Currently, the most common method of disposal of produced water is deep well injection, which is costly and has been shown to cause induced seismicity. Treating this water to agricultural standards eliminates the need to dispose of this water and provides a new source of water. This research explores which counties in Colorado may be best suited to reusing produced water for agriculture based on a combined index of need, quality of produced water, and quantity of produced water. The volumetric impact of using produced water for agricultural needs is determined for the top six counties. Irrigation demand is obtained using evapotranspiration estimates from a range of methods, including remote sensing products and ground-based observations. The economic feasibility of treating produced water to irrigation standards is also determined using treatment costs found in the literature and disposal costs in each county. Finally, data from the IHS database is used to obtain the ratio between hydraulic fracturing fluid volumes and produced water volumes in each county. The results of this research will aid in the transition between viewing produced water as a waste product and using it as a tool to help secure water for the arid West.

Basalt generation at the Apollo 12 site. Part 2: Source heterogeneity, multiple melts, and crustal contamination

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Neal, Clive R.; Hacker, Matthew D.; Snyder, Gregory A.; Taylor, Lawrence A.; Liu, Yun-Gang; Schmitt, Roman A.

1994-01-01

The petrogenesis of Apollo 12 mare basalts has been examined with emphasis on trace-element ratios and abundances. Vitrophyric basalts were used as parental compositions for the modeling, and proportions of fractionating phases were determined using the MAGFOX prograqm of Longhi (1991). Crystal fractionation processes within crustal and sub-crustal magma chambers are evaluated as a function of pressure. Knowledge of the fractionating phases allows trace-element variations to be considered as either source related or as a product of post-magma-generation processes. For the ilmenite and olivine basalts, trace-element variations are inherited from the source, but the pigeonite basalt data have been interpreted with open-system evolution processes through crustal assimilation. Three groups of basalts have been examined: (1) Pigeonite basalts-produced by the assimilation of lunar crustal material by a parental melt (up to 3% assimilation and 10% crystal fractionation, with an 'r' value of 0.3). (2) Ilmenite basalts-produced by variable degrees of partial melting (4-8%) of a source of olivine, pigeonite, augite, and plagioclase, brought together by overturn of the Lunar Magma Ocean (LMO) cumulate pile. After generation, which did not exhaust any of the minerals in the source, these melts experienced closed-system crystal fractionation/accumulation. (3) Olivine basalts-produced by variable degrees of partial melting (5-10%) of a source of olivine, pigeonite, and augite. After generation, again without exhausting any of the minerals in the source, these melts evolved through crystal accumulation. The evolved liquid counterparts of these cumulates have not been sampled. The source compositions for the ilmenite and olivine basalts were calculated by assuming that the vitrophyric compositions were primary and the magmas were produced by non-modal batch melting. Although the magnitude is unclear, evaluation of these source regions indicates that both be composed of early- and late-stage Lunar Magma Ocean (LMO) cumulates, requiring an overturn of the cumulate pile.

40 CFR 415.226 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide... CFR 403.7, any new source subject to this subpart and producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate... and achieve the following pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide...

40 CFR 415.226 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide... CFR 403.7, any new source subject to this subpart and producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate... and achieve the following pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide...

40 CFR 415.226 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide... CFR 403.7, any new source subject to this subpart and producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate... and achieve the following pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide...

40 CFR 415.226 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide... CFR 403.7, any new source subject to this subpart and producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate... and achieve the following pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide...

75 FR 25167 - Defense Federal Acquisition Regulation Supplement; Department of Defense (DoD); Restriction on...

Federal Register 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

2010-05-07

... of domestic origin. This rule was subject to Office of Management and Budget review under Executive... bearings be produced by a domestic source and be of domestic origin. This restriction does not apply to the... Council interprets the phrase ``produced by a domestic source and of domestic origin'' to mean that a ball...

Characteristics of extreme ultraviolet emission from high-Z plasmas

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Ohashi, H.; Higashiguchi, T.; Suzuki, Y.; Kawasaki, M.; Suzuki, C.; Tomita, K.; Nishikino, M.; Fujioka, S.; Endo, A.; Li, B.; Otsuka, T.; Dunne, P.; O'Sullivan, G.

2016-03-01

We demonstrate the extreme ultraviolet (EUV) and soft x-ray sources in the 2 to 7 nm spectral region related to the beyond EUV (BEUV) question at 6.x nm and the water window source based on laser-produced high-Z plasmas. Resonance emission from multiply charged ions merges to produce intense unresolved transition arrays (UTAs), extending below the carbon K edge (4.37 nm). An outline of a microscope design for single-shot live cell imaging is proposed based on high-Z plasma UTA source, coupled to multilayer mirror optics.

Relative Importance of Various Sources of Defect-Producing Hydrogen Introduced into Steel During Application of Vitreous Coatings

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Moore, Dwight G; Mason, Mary A; Harrison, William N

1953-01-01

When porcelain enamels or vitreous-type ceramic coatings are applied to ferrous metals, there is believed to be an evolution of hydrogen gas both during and after the firing operation. At elevated temperatures rapid evolution may result in blistering while if hydrogen becomes trapped in the steel during the rapid cooling following the firing operation gas pressures may be generated at the coating-metal interface and flakes of the coating literally blown off the metal. To determine experimentally the relative importance of the principal sources of the hydrogen causing the defects, a procedure was devised in which heavy hydrogen (deuterium) was substituted in turn for regular hydrogen in each of five possible hydrogen-producing operations in the coating process. The findings of the study were as follows: (1) the principal source of the defect-producing hydrogen was the dissolved water present in the enamel frit that was incorporated into the coating. (2) the acid pickling, the milling water, the chemically combined water in the clay, and the quenching water were all minor sources of defect-producing hydrogen under the test conditions used. Confirming experiments showed that fishscaling could be eliminated by using a water-free coating.

40 CFR 98.310 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Titanium Dioxide Production § 98.310 Definition of the source category. The titanium dioxide production source category consists of facilities that use the chloride process to produce titanium dioxide. ...

40 CFR 98.310 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Titanium Dioxide Production § 98.310 Definition of the source category. The titanium dioxide production source category consists of facilities that use the chloride process to produce titanium dioxide. ...

40 CFR 98.310 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Titanium Dioxide Production § 98.310 Definition of the source category. The titanium dioxide production source category consists of facilities that use the chloride process to produce titanium dioxide. ...

40 CFR 98.310 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Titanium Dioxide Production § 98.310 Definition of the source category. The titanium dioxide production source category consists of facilities that use the chloride process to produce titanium dioxide. ...

40 CFR 98.310 - Definition of the source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Titanium Dioxide Production § 98.310 Definition of the source category. The titanium dioxide production source category consists of facilities that use the chloride process to produce titanium dioxide. ...

Scalable Production of Si Nanoparticles Directly from Low Grade Sources for Lithium-Ion Battery Anode.

PubMed

Zhu, Bin; Jin, Yan; Tan, Yingling; Zong, Linqi; Hu, Yue; Chen, Lei; Chen, Yanbin; Zhang, Qiao; Zhu, Jia

2015-09-09

Silicon, one of the most promising candidates as lithium-ion battery anode, has attracted much attention due to its high theoretical capacity, abundant existence, and mature infrastructure. Recently, Si nanostructures-based lithium-ion battery anode, with sophisticated structure designs and process development, has made significant progress. However, low cost and scalable processes to produce these Si nanostructures remained as a challenge, which limits the widespread applications. Herein, we demonstrate that Si nanoparticles with controlled size can be massively produced directly from low grade Si sources through a scalable high energy mechanical milling process. In addition, we systematically studied Si nanoparticles produced from two major low grade Si sources, metallurgical silicon (∼99 wt % Si, $1/kg) and ferrosilicon (∼83 wt % Si, $0.6/kg). It is found that nanoparticles produced from ferrosilicon sources contain FeSi2, which can serve as a buffer layer to alleviate the mechanical fractures of volume expansion, whereas nanoparticles from metallurgical Si sources have higher capacity and better kinetic properties because of higher purity and better electronic transport properties. Ferrosilicon nanoparticles and metallurgical Si nanoparticles demonstrate over 100 stable deep cycling after carbon coating with the reversible capacities of 1360 mAh g(-1) and 1205 mAh g(-1), respectively. Therefore, our approach provides a new strategy for cost-effective, energy-efficient, large scale synthesis of functional Si electrode materials.

Finite numbers of sources, particle correlations and the Color Glass Condensate

DOE PAGES

McLerran, Larry; Skokov, Vladimir V.

2015-12-23

Here, we show that for a finite number of emitting sources, the Color Glass Condensate produces substantial elliptic azimuthal anisotropy, characterized by v 2, for two and four particle correlations for momentum greater than or of the order of the saturation momentum. The flow produced has the correct semi-quantitative features to describe flow seen in the LHC experiments with p–Pb and pp collisions. This flow is induced by quantum mechanical interference between the waves of produced particles, and the flow itself is coupled to fluctuations in the positions of emitting sources. We shortly discuss generalizing these results to odd vmore » n, to correlations involving larger number of particles, and to transverse momentum scales ΛQCD << p T << Q sat.« less

Modeling of self-potential anomalies near vertical dikes.

USGS Publications Warehouse

Fitterman, D.V.

1983-01-01

The self-potential (SP) Green's function for an outcropping vertical dike is derived from solutions for the dc resistivity problem for the same geometry. The Green's functions are numerically integrated over rectangular source regions on the contacts between the dike and the surrounding material to obtain the SP anomaly. The analysis is valid for thermoelectrical source mechanisms. Two types of anomalies can be produced by this geometry. When the two source planes are polarized in opposite directions, a monopolar anomaly is produced. This corresponds to the thermoelectrical properties of the dike being in contrast with the surrounding material. When the thermoelectric coefficients change monotonically across the dike, a dipolar anomaly is produced. In either case positive and negative anomalies are possible, and the greatest variation in potential will occur in the most resistive regions. -Author

Frontiers of X-ray research at the Advanced Photon Source

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Dehmer, J.J.

1995-12-31

With providential timing, the Advanced Photon Source (APS) at Argonne National Laboratory has begun to produce x-rays during the centennial year of Wilhelm Rongtgen`s discovery of a {open_quotes}new kind of rays.{close_quotes} When complete, this third-generation, 7-GeV positron storage ring will produce nearly one hundred intense x-ray beams, with a major emphasis on the laser-like (highly collimated, locally coherent) beams from undulator sources. This talk will provide an overview of (1) the important properties of the synchrotron radiation to be produced by the APS, (2) the major classes of experimental approaches that use x-rays, and (3) some speculation on the impactsmore » of the APS on the materials, chemical, biological, and environmental sciences.« less

Risk with energy from conventional and nonconventional sources.

PubMed

Inhaber, H

1979-02-23

Risk to human health was compared for five conventional and six nonconventional energy systems. The entire cycle for producing energy was considered, not just part. The most important conclusion drawn is that the risk to human health from nonconventional sources can be as high as, or even higher than, that of conventional sources. This result is produced only when the risk per unit energy is considered, rather than the risk per solar panel or windmill. The risk from nonconventional energy sources derives from the large amount of material and labor needed, along with their backup and storage requirements. Risk evaluation is a relatively new discipline, and therefore the results presented here can be considered only a beginning. However, society should keep relative risk in mind when evaluating present and future energy sources.

"Oh, yeah, I'm getting closer to god": spirituality and religiousness of family caregivers of cancer patients undergoing palliative care.

PubMed

Paiva, Bianca Sakamoto Ribeiro; Carvalho, André Lopes; Lucchetti, Giancarlo; Barroso, Eliane Marçon; Paiva, Carlos Eduardo

2015-08-01

Within the cancer palliative care setting, where both patients and family caregivers (FCs) undergo a transition from the end of curative treatment to palliative therapy, spirituality and religiousness (S/R) may be a strategy to help the patients and FCs better cope with the disease, in addition to exerting a positive impact on symptoms, particularly emotional symptoms. The present study aimed to understand how S/R influence FCs of cancer patients undergoing palliative care. This study was an exploratory and descriptive qualitative study. The qualitative approach to the data was based on Bardin's content analysis technique. The consolidated criteria for reporting qualitative research (COREQ-32) was used in the description of the results. Thirty FCs of individuals with advanced cancer undergoing palliative care were included. Analysis of the FCs' narratives indicated that the FCs considered that religiousness and faith in God or a Supreme Being provide them with the strength to cope with the suffering associated with the care of relatives with advanced cancer. Many FCs emphasized that talking about God was somehow comforting and made them feel at peace with themselves. Four categories were identified in the FCs' narratives: (1) increase in faith and closeness to God becomes stronger, (2) rethink life issues, (3) negative interference in the extrinsic religiosity, and (4) quest for religiousness to gain strength or support. A conceptual framework was developed. The results of the present study indicated that S/R are a coping strategy frequently used by FCs of individuals with advanced cancer. The perceptions of the FCs interviewed in the present study corresponded to the four distinct categories related to spirituality and religiousness.

Hubble Uncovers a Mysterious Hermit

NASA Image and Video Library

2017-12-08

This irregular dwarf galaxy's closes neighbor is 2.3 million light years away, so yeah, we're calling it "isolated". The drizzle of stars scattered across this image forms a galaxy known as UGC 4879. UGC 4879 is an irregular dwarf galaxy — as the name suggests, galaxies of this type are a little smaller and messier than their cosmic cousins, lacking the majestic swirl of a spiral or the coherence of an elliptical. This galaxy is also very isolated. There are about 2.3 million light years between UGC 4879 and its closest neighbor, Leo A, which is about the same distance as that between the Andromeda Galaxy and the Milky Way. This galaxy’s isolation means that it has not interacted with any surrounding galaxies, making it an ideal laboratory for studying star formation uncomplicated by interactions with other galaxies. Studies of UGC 4879 have revealed a significant amount of star formation in the first 4 billion years after the Big Bang, followed by a strange 9-billion-year lull in star formation that ended 1 billion years ago by a more recent re-ignition. The reason for this behavior, however, remains mysterious, and the solitary galaxy continues to provide ample study material for astronomers looking to understand the complex mysteries of star birth throughout the universe. Image credit: NASA/ESA NASA image use policy. NASA Goddard Space Flight Center enables NASA’s mission through four scientific endeavors: Earth Science, Heliophysics, Solar System Exploration, and Astrophysics. Goddard plays a leading role in NASA’s accomplishments by contributing compelling scientific knowledge to advance the Agency’s mission. Follow us on Twitter Like us on Facebook Find us on Instagram

30 CFR 56.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2011-07-01 2011-07-01 false Heat sources. 56.4500 Section 56.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 56.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 57.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2011-07-01 2011-07-01 false Heat sources. 57.4500 Section 57.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 57.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 57.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2013-07-01 2013-07-01 false Heat sources. 57.4500 Section 57.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 57.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 57.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2012-07-01 2012-07-01 false Heat sources. 57.4500 Section 57.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 57.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 56.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2012-07-01 2012-07-01 false Heat sources. 56.4500 Section 56.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 56.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 56.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2013-07-01 2013-07-01 false Heat sources. 56.4500 Section 56.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 56.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 57.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2014-07-01 2014-07-01 false Heat sources. 57.4500 Section 57.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 57.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

30 CFR 56.4500 - Heat sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... 30 Mineral Resources 1 2014-07-01 2014-07-01 false Heat sources. 56.4500 Section 56.4500 Mineral Resources MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR METAL AND NONMETAL MINE SAFETY AND... Installation/construction/maintenance § 56.4500 Heat sources. Heat sources capable of producing combustion...

Distribution and antimicrobial susceptibility profile of extended-spectrum β-lactamase-producing Proteus mirabilis strains recently isolated in Japan.

PubMed

Kanayama, Akiko; Kobayashi, Intetsu; Shibuya, Kazutoshi

2015-02-01

Here we report on the prevalence of extended-spectrum β-lactamase (ESBL)-producing Proteus mirabilis from a nationwide antimicrobial resistance survey in different geographical regions of Japan. A total of 799 P. mirabilis isolates recovered between July 2009 and June 2010 from 314 healthcare facilities were characterised according to ESBL production, source, location and antimicrobial susceptibility pattern. ESBL production was found in 364 (45.6%) of the isolates, among which 354 (97.3%) produced CTX-M-2 group β-lactamases. Of the 349 ESBL-producing isolates in which the inpatient or outpatient status of the source was known, 324 (92.8%) were from inpatients and 25 (7.2%) were from outpatients (P<0.05). Results of pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) analysis performed on 66 of the ESBL-producers generated a distribution of PFGE patterns into 21 groups. Genetic relatedness was seen among isolates within a region, which is consistent with horizontal transmission. With respect to the frequency of ESBL-producers by specimen source, 12/14 (85.7%) central venous catheter specimens yielded ESBL-producing P. mirabilis compared with 159/405 (39.3%), 119/209 (56.9%), 42/77 (54.5%) and 20/49 (40.8%), respectively, for isolates from urine, sputum, decubitus ulcer and wound specimens. Among the ESBL-producers, non-susceptibility to ciprofloxacin was found in 74.2% of the ESBL-producing isolates compared with 17.7% of the ESBL-non-producing isolates. These results show that approximately one-half of the P. mirabilis isolates from clinical specimens in Japan are ESBL-producers and that the potential for concomitant fluoroquinolone resistance must also be considered. Copyright © 2014 Elsevier B.V. and the International Society of Chemotherapy. All rights reserved.

Extended-Spectrum beta (β)-Lactamases and Antibiogram in Enterobacteriaceae from Clinical and Drinking Water Sources from Bahir Dar City, Ethiopia.

PubMed

Abera, Bayeh; Kibret, Mulugeta; Mulu, Wondemagegn

2016-01-01

The spread of Extended-Spectrum beta (β)-Lactamases (ESBL)-producing Enterobacteriaceae has become a serious global problem. ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae vary based on differences in antibiotic use, nature of patients and hospital settings. This study was aimed at determining ESBL and antibiogram in Enterobacteriaceae isolates from clinical and drinking water sources in Bahir Dar City, Northwest Ethiopia. Enterobacteriaceae species were isolated from clinical materials and tap water using standard culturing procedures from September 2013 to March 2015. ESBL-producing-Enterobacteriaceae were detected using double-disk method by E-test Cefotaxim/cefotaxim+ clavulanic acid and Ceftazidime/ceftazidime+ clavulanic acid (BioMerieux SA, France) on Mueller Hinton agar (Oxoid, UK). Overall, 274 Enterobacteriaceae were isolated. Of these, 210 (44%) were from patients and 64 (17.1%) were from drinking water. The median age of the patients was 28 years. Urinary tract infection and blood stream infection accounted for 60% and 21.9% of Enterobacteriaceae isolates, respectively. Klebsiella pneumoniae was isolated from 9 (75%) of neonatal sepsis. The overall prevalence of ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae in clinical and drinking water samples were 57.6% and 9.4%, respectively. The predominant ESBL-producers were K. pneumoniae 34 (69.4%) and Escherichia coli 71 (58.2%). Statistically significant associations were noted between ESBL-producing and non- producing Enterobacteriaceae with regard to age of patients, infected body sites and patient settings (P = 0.001). ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae showed higher levels of resistance against chloramphenicol, ciprofloxacin and cotrimoxazole than non-ESBL producers (P = 0.001). ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae coupled with high levels of other antimicrobials become a major concern for treatment of patients with invasive infections such as blood stream infections, neonatal sepsis and urinary tract infections. ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae were also detected in drinking water sources.

APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING SHADOWGRAPHS

DOEpatents

Wilson, R.R.

1959-08-11

An apparatus is presented for obtaining shadowgraphs or radiographs of an object exposed to x rays or the like. The device includes the combination of a cloud chamber having the interior illuminated and a portion thereof transparent to light rays and x'rays, a controlled source of x rays spaced therefrom, photographic recording disposed laterally of the linear path intermediate the source and the chamber portion in oblique angularity in aspect to the path. The object to be studied is disposed intermediate the x-ray source and chamber in the linear path to provide an x-ray transmission barrier therebetween. The shadowgraph is produced in the cloud chamber in response to initiation of the x- ray source and recorded photographically.

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Kanesue, Takeshi; Ikeda, Shunsuke

A laser ion source is a promising candidate as an ion source for heavy ion inertial fusion (HIF), where a pulsed ultra-intense and low-charged heavy ion beam is required. It is a key development for a laser ion source to transport laser-produced plasma with a magnetic field to achieve a high current beam. The effect of a tapered magnetic field on laser produced plasma is demonstrated by comparing the results with a straight solenoid magnet. The magnetic field of interest is a wider aperture on a target side and narrower aperture on an extraction side. Furthermore, based on the experimentallymore » obtained results, the performance of a scaled laser ion source for HIF was estimated.« less

Factors influencing the production of cellulase by Aspergillus fumigatus (Fresenius).

PubMed

Stewart, J C; Parry, J B

1981-07-01

During growth in liquid culture containing a single cellulosic or non-cellulosic carbon source, a newly isolated strain of Aspergillus fumigatus released cellulases into the medium; the amounts produced depended on the nitrogen source, the type and concentration of the carbon source, pH and temperature. Extracellular cellulolytic activity was still increasing after incubation for 60 d with 1% (W/V) CF11 cellulose, (NH4)2SO4 as nitrogen source and a starting pH of 7. The activities of the new isolate were compared with those of A. fumigatus IMI 143864 and Trichoderma reesei QM6a (ATCC 13631) and it was shown to be a good producer of beta-glucosidase.

Houston, We Have a Podcast. Episode 47: Astronaut, M.D

NASA Image and Video Library

2018-06-01

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 47: Astronaut MD. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. So if you're new to the show, we bring in NASA experts to talk about all the different parts of our space agency. And sometimes we get lucky enough to bring in astronauts to tell their story. So today we're chatting with Serena Aunon-Chancellor. She's a US astronaut, and she's about to launch to the International Space Station for her first space flight. She told us about her education going for engineering and medicine, her time at NASA as a flight surgeon, and her training and expectations before her first trip to space. So with no further delay, let's go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Dr. Serena Aunon-Chancellor. Enjoy. [ Music ] T minus five seconds and counting. Mark. [Inaudible] there she goes. Houston, we have a podcast. [ Music ] Host: Serena, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, absolutely. Host: You were really busy beforehand. You actually had to run -- [ Laughter ] Serena Aunon-Chancellor: That's right. Host: And we're actually doing it while you're here, too. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: That's right, that's right. Collecting science happens 24/7 prior to flight. Host: Oh my gosh. Well, I really appreciate your time honestly. Because now that you're about to go to the International Space Station, this is the perfect time to sit down and kind of go through your story. So let's just start with that. Let's just start from the beginning. You said you were born in Indiana, but you're more of a Colorado girl, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, absolutely. And so my father worked at Purdue University for many years. And then when I was in junior high school he went to go work for Colorado State University. And for me, high school was kind of my formative -- I consider those a lot of my formative years. And it was just a beautiful place to live and grow up. And I made tons of great friend there. And you're making that all-important transition from high school to college, which was a big leap. And I remember at the time thinking, "God, I want to leave home. I don't want to be here." And I look back on that now and I think, "Are you crazy? Colorado's beautiful." But I really wanted to be someplace new, and exciting, and different. And I love Washington, D.C. Funny enough, both my parents went to the same undergraduate institution, George Washington University -- Host: Oh, no way. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: -- like I did. And I think initially they were all for it, but they said, "Look around some more." I said, "No, I love it here. I love DC. I love the big city, and I love being where a lot of things happen." Host: Yeah [Laughs]. So that was your undergrad, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: That's correct. Host: So that was going there, and then you kind of moved around from there. But did your inspiration for pursuing -- this was when you were at George Washington, you were pursuing an engineering degree, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: That's correct. So I entered my undergraduate program as an electrical engineer. And my father was an electrical engineer. Host: So where did that inspiration come from? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Where did that inspiration come from? And again, part of this is stemming from hey, I want to work for NASA someday. Host: Oh, okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I knew when my parents sat down with me, my father, of course, was like, "You want to work for NASA? You be an engineer." And so I was good at math and science. I really enjoyed the engineering curriculum. But interestingly enough, as I began that curriculum I had finished my sophomore year at GW. And most of my friends were pre-med engineers, which I didn't even know that curriculum existed. I didn't know that engineering and medicine had a combined track. Host: Yeah. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And they all came to me and said, "Serena, we think you should be a doctor. You're great around people. And we think you should look at this program." So I have to credit my friends who -- you know, a lot of folks think that college kids are just trying to find their way through life. They had a lot of insight. And those friends shared that insight with me. So I went home over the summer, talked about it with my mom and dad, and said, "I think I need to do this." And they said, "Okay, we'll support you." Took a couple classes at home over the summer to catch back up with some of the prereq's I hadn't finished and then came back on board my junior year as a pre-med engineer. So it was -- and from that point on, it was neat because I got to take some classes in biomedical engineering as well as a senior. And I really enjoyed the way you could combine the human body or medicine and engineering at that time. Host: That's actually my main question here, is I'm -- I don't think I see the connection between electrical engineering and pre-med. They seem to different. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: They seem so different. The interesting thing is -- and especially when you work at NASA today, NASA is all about engineering. No question. And about the different systems. And so what -- I still give lots of talks to engineering communities. And I say, you know, when you look at a space ship or you look at the station, you've got the electrical power system, you've got the system that provides cooling and life support. You've got the system that takes care of waste. Well, that human body is another system that you're putting inside the larger system. The only thing that the human body is, it's not a -- it's a system you have to be very careful with. And unlike other engineering components that you can test to failure, you can't do that with a human body. And the human body is so variable. You have some folks that can tolerate really hot environments really well and some folks that can't. And so having that human system integrated into the larger system of the Space Station is one of the biggest challenges that we deal with today. Host: So was it mainly this idea that you were good with people that your friends really pushed you to pursue medicine, or was it maybe some other connection? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I think it was just the fact that I related well to people. And I still -- Host: Oh, okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Because I still practice medicine actively today. Medicine is one of those fields where you have to approach a person wherever they're at. And folks -- I treat folks from all walks of life at all points in their life. And it can be a challenge to walk into a room and within five to ten seconds try and judge where this person's coming from, what are their concerns, how do you approach them when you talk to them? And so, you know, I think -- at least I like to think my friends saw that I was easily able to approach people and tried to approach them with kind of a down-to-earth sort of attitude and make them feel comfortable. Host: Okay. So was it -- did you know what kind of medicine you wanted to go into when you started this? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: No idea. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: None -- none, none, none. [ Laughter ] Serena Aunon-Chancellor: No idea [Laughs]. Host: So the pre was truly, like, "All right, let me just get introduced to this field and see what I want to do." Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Exactly. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Exactly. And medical school does a really nice job at introducing you to several different fields so that hopefully the field that you go into you click with at some point. And that did occur, that did occur with me. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Because I'm an internist. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And an internist is someone who treats anybody from age 18 to 118. But internists are very detailed with every organ system of the body. And so when I was going through those rotations as a medical student, for me, I was in heaven. Because I'm a very detailed person. I like to know every time point, and I like to kind of be like a Sherlock Holmes. Someone comes in the hospital and I've got to figure out why they are sick, how they got sick, and what do they have? And so it's one big detective story from start to finish. So I enjoy doing that. And internists also are kind of like a gatekeeper. You know, they are in charge of the primary care for a lot of their patients, whether it's high blood pressure, diabetes, they're very personal with their patients. They spend a lot of time with them, and that's what I enjoy. Host: Because it's so broad, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Very broad. Host: You need to understand, like you said, everything inside the body. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely. Absolutely. Host: So we did a podcast episode earlier -- I can't remember the episode title, but it was with Natasha Cho, another flight surgeon. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I know her well. Host: Yeah. And she was talking about how different specialties in medicine, you kind of -- it's almost like they have certain personalities. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: They do. Host: And she's emergency medicine. So she has certain -- so internists have this more detailed approach, I guess. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Detailed approach. Some people say anal, but, you know, I take it as a compliment because what I tell -- I teach a lot of students, interns, and residents. And what I tell them is as an internist you know the most about your patient in the hospital better than anyone -- better than the surgeon you consult, better than the cardiologist you asked to come see, better than anybody else. You have to know everything about your patient. Because you are their primary, their primary care physician. And you tie all those pieces together for them. So when they make all their visits to the different specialists and come back to you, you say, "Okay, let's look at the integrated story." And you're able to explain it to them and spend time with them. Host: See, that's I think one of the main differences, especially with Natasha. Coming from emergency med it's more like what's the problem, identify the problem -- you've got this short-term relationship. Whereas an internist, you're talking about a long-term, lasting relationship. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So Natasha sees them, says, "You need to be in the hospital, Serena, here you go." [ Laughter ] And I take over from there. Host: I see. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So yeah, absolutely. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: She's fantastic, I love Natasha. Host: Oh, yeah. It was a great interview, honestly. So this pre-medicine, where did you identify -- so you identified that you need -- you're like, "Okay, internist, that's what I want to be." So what was the next step for you? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So the next step was applying to medical school, which was not as easy as you think. I did not get many interviews. Host: Oh. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: It was very -- and so I would -- for anybody who's out there in undergraduate applying for med school, it's not that my grades weren't good. They were good. It's just you're applying and the competition's very stiff. So I think I got -- and I was living in the state of Texas. I had residency in the state of Texas, thank goodness, at that time because we have a lot of the great medical schools. And so I had a lot of the places I got to interview -- or got to apply to. Got interviews at two, got waitlisted at both institutions. So I actually got in very late to medical school. And it's because someone took a chance on me. And I remember the interview. And it was at UT Houston, which is now McGovern Medical School. And I remember interviewing. And they said -- they looked at my application and said, "NASA? What do you want to do with NASA?" I said, "I have no idea, but I want to work for NASA after I finish going to medical school." And I remember he said, "Huh, that's interesting." And at the time also, coming into medical school very few engineers were premed. Majority of folks were biology majors or chemistry majors. But engineering was rare. So, again, he looked at my application and said, "Engineering? How are you going to tie that in?" And I said, "Well, I want to work for NASA. And I think these two fields blend beautifully." And so someone took a chance on me. And it worked out beautifully. But I got in very late, probably April prior to starting that fall. So you know? And rest is kind of history. But I tell folks it's okay if you don't get in the first time or maybe you're not their first choice. I wasn't somebody's first choice obviously, but it works out. Host: Wow. So you said you put NASA on your resume. And do you think that was kind of a chance, like, a bold move, or was it -- I guess it sounded like it was a curious thing for that person to look at that? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I think so. I think in a way I wanted to be truthful with what I wanted to do and not -- but I also knew it would help my application stick out a little bit in that yeah, I am different than most folks coming in. Because where I see my future path, where I see myself employed maybe isn't in a normal private practice or in a hospital. It's in the space program. And so it's -- you know, but he could tell that that's what I was excited about, that's what I was passionate about. You know, at that point I'd begun to learn what a flight surgeon was, and I just thought it was the coolest thing ever. And I didn't know much about how they trained or how they got there, but for some reason that clicked for me. Host: And I'm guessing they offered something -- the school offered something where it's just like, "Yes, that's going to help me get into NASA." Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah. And so what happened was I was a fourth-year medical student. And people were beginning to sign up for all of these electives on the outside because they do give you that opportunity to go do one-month rotations outside of the school. And I said, "Okay, well, how do I do this? What does NASA have?" So I literally just Googled NASA, medicine, couple other search terms, and up popped a flight surgeon's phone number. And a flight surgeon that still works for NASA, Phil Stepaniak. He's fantastic. And I remember dialing his phone number. And the first time he picked up the phone and said hello, I hung up right away. I was like, "I don't want to talk to this guy [Laughs]." And then the people who know Phil know he's just fantastic. But I dialed back again and I said, "Hey, my name is Serena. I read about these programs. I don't know how to get there. Can I come work with you? Can I see what your work is all about, what you do on a daily basis?" And he goes, "I tell you what. There's a program we have down here, it's offered twice a year. It's an aerospace medicine clerkship built for medical students." And he gave me all the contact information, and that's how I found out about it. So it wasn't because it was advertised or widely known. In general, aerospace medicine is not a field that's widely advertised. It's usually found by folks who want to find it. And so that's how I got involved. So I did that rotation. It was an in October. Interviews for residency were about to start. And I learned about a special program that UTMB in Galveston had and changed all my applications around at the last second. Host: Wow. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And applied for a very special aerospace medicine, internal medicine residency. Host: That's kind of bold. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: It was very bold [Laughs]. And I remember -- I actually remember where I was driving down the highway, sweating a little bit thinking, "Oh my gosh, should I do this? Should I change all my applications around, ask my advisors for new letters of recommendation to go in a program that takes one person a year?" Sure [Laughs]. You know? Host: But it has to do with the fact that NASA was always part of the plan. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely. Host: And this goes back to -- does it go back to your childhood when the inspiration for NASA first came and kind of pushed you? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, I just remember watching shuttles launch third, fourth, fifth grade. Host: Oh, wow. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Very distinctly remember Challenger in the fifth grade. I remember where I was sitting in the classroom. I remember being a little miffed because our fifth-grade science teacher would not let us watch the launch. We actually had to sit in class and listen to lecture. And then I distinctly remember another teacher running in and saying that the shuttle had exploded. And so it was very -- I just remember that the next few months I just watched as much as I could over and again on the television about the disaster and the investigation. And it just -- it very much humanized the space program for me because it showed the faces of the crew and their families. And you realized how personal the space program is to America and how much America loves, trusts, and depends on the space program. It's part of our existence, it's part of who we are to explore. And then thinking even at that young age, you know, how does NASA move on from this? How do we launch another Shuttle again? And we did. So it was really amazing and profound even for a ten-year-old at that time. Host: Oh, ten. So it was around this time where you kind of had the sense that this is -- this is something -- maybe it's this community, this humanization that really sort of said, "Maybe that's a family that I want to be a part of." Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I just saw myself being a part of that family. And call it your gut, call it your instinct, you know, for me that's what resonated. And I still use that with a lot of folks I teach today, and I say follow your instinct. Because if something tells you something's not right or doesn't feel right, you're right. You know? If something tells you, you should be a part of this or a part of something, you're right. So I've tried to use that as kind of a guiding force as well. Host: Now, fast forward and you're on the fast track to this -- this flight surgeon program, the one that only takes a few people, one person. And now you're on your way to start getting to NASA. So where was that transition, from where did you start? Where did you get there? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So I trained for two years in the special -- so I completed, you know, an internal medicine residency and then aerospace medicine after that and then immediately went to work as a flight surgeon for NASA. And, again, a flight surgeon is somebody, who, when they're working for NASA, looks after the astronauts and their families. And one of my first assignments was to go to Star City, Russia and be the flight surgeon or physician kind of on call for out astronauts in training. So for me, it was number one I'd never been to Russia before, totally brand new world. Never worked with so many astronauts before in close proximity and been the only physician out there, which was a little bit daunting because you're kind of on your own out there in Star City as the sole American physician. You are in charge. And so it was tremendous responsibility for a very young flight surgeon, but I loved it. I got to spend a lot of time with astronauts in the program who are still in the program today and I consider to be very close friends, to learn what their life was like, to learn what their training was like and say, "Is this something I can see myself doing? Is this where I think I'd like to go? Is this -- can I see myself in their shoes?" So. Host: So was astronaut a part of the plan or was just being at NASA a part of the plan? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Astronaut was definitely part of the plan, even from an early on age. So I knew, you know, hey, I'd love to be an astronaut. But it was kind of like one step at a time. Host: Yep. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: You know, hey, let's get to NASA. Let's see -- and it's very interesting. When you take the path that I have and I was able to realize my dream and become an astronaut, I also realized that all the stuff I did leading up to that I absolutely love. I absolutely love being a physician. It is something that I feel like I should have been all along, no matter what. I love seeing patients. I love treating patients. I love the field of medicine. So to me it was surprising, you know, kind of what you learn along the way -- learn what you love and what you're good at. Host: Another piece of advice that I consistently hear from astronauts is, you know, there's a lot of different paths you can take to become an astronaut, right? Yours was more of the medical route. I've talk to test pilots and geologists and everything, but what it comes down to is along the way are you happy at each step? If you were -- for whatever reason, this was where you were going to end up forever, would you be happy? And a lot of them said, "Yes, if I were to stop here, absolutely I'd be happy. If I just stopped at being a physician, yes, absolutely. I would enjoy that for the rest of my life." And I think that's pretty important, finding something you're passionate about and just sort of sticking with it. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely. And I get that question a lot from very young students who, when they first ask the question, they say, "What field do you think NASA would want me to go in?" And I say, "Nuh-uh. Stop right there. What field do you want to go into? What do you love? Don't pick a field because you think NASA will like it." What NASA, I think, loves about the people that they bring in is the fact that they're so good at what they do and they absolutely love it. And you can't be really, really good at something unless you absolutely love it. And so I tell folks I've had even, you know, young medical students say, "What medicine should I go into?" I'm like, "Whatever you want to do. If you love dermatology, do dermatology. If you don't want to be a doctor at all, don't be a doctor." You know? It's one of these things where I think you're right, all the folks in my office, if for whatever reason we had to leave NASA today and go back to what we were doing, we loved what we were doing. So not a problem. Host: You'd be so happy. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely. Host: Now, there's a lot of changes for you along the way, right? You have this -- first you're going for engineering. You're like, "Well, actually internal medicine." And then you're like, "Actually I'd like to do some aerospace medicine." So there's all these changes. Now you're in Star City, Russia. Did you have someone you were shadowing or maybe was this, like, a first-time experience? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: No, it was [Laughs] -- you kind of figure it out. So that when you go out there for your first trip, you have a two-week handover with an experienced flight surgeon, and that was Gene Dow, someone who's been in the military for a long time. And Gene still does rotations out there in Star City. But Gene trained me to say, "These are your roles and responsibilities out there. These are the unique things, unique aspects of living and working in Star City, certainly in Russia itself, going into Moscow, the different training events." So you get a very quick two-week handover, and then it's you. And it's really you learn on the job. And folks who have worked in Russia before know that Russians really value longevity. So, for example, a lot of the their jobs, you'll find the same person in the same job over all the years to come -- five years, ten years, fifteen years. Whereas in America we tend to -- there's a lot of turnover in multiple positions. So someone will work three years here, then four years here. And so the Russians really value personal relationships and getting to know you. And I had a lot of trips out there my very first two or three years. And so in a sense you build up a little bit of street credit with Russians because they say, "Okay, she's been out here, she understands us, she knows us." So I really enjoyed getting to learn about the Russians, learn about their culture, and make some really good friendships, which I still have today -- certainly with some of the Russian flight docs. That part was a lot of fun. Host: That's right. Now being an astronaut, do you find yourself among the same circles and you, you know, I guess bump into someone in Star City and say hey. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: You know, the neat part was when I got assigned to my expedition and I went for my first training trip out in Russia, the very first day you are there they do a presentation to the Russian commission where you are introduced formally. Your biography is read. So all the instructors understand where you come from. And then you say a few words in Russian. And it was really nice to see kind of the management stand up and give my background and say, "Serena, we all know you. Our medical colleagues are here, they remember you. Welcome back." And so that part was really nice. Because you feel like, "Yeah, these folks do know me. I've been here a long time." Host: Wow. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So it does buy you some credibility early on. Host: Very cool. So what else were you doing when you first got to NASA -- before being selected as an astronaut, what else were you doing? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Well, so I worked, of course, in space medicine. And so when I wasn't in Russia looking out over astronauts, I was assigned -- I did get the chance to work on STS-127 as a flight surgeon for the Shuttle crew, which I didn't think I'd get a chance to do, but I thought that was really cool. Because, you know, working Shuttle Ops as compared to Space Station is a very different style. We still had the two mission controls at that point. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So we had a mission control for Space Station and one for Shuttle. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And I had done most of my training in the Space Station realm, and then they said, "Hey, you are going to be the deputy flight surgeon for this Shuttle mission. Get to know the crew, you're flying out to Florida. You're taking part of TCDT," and all these different preparation periods for a Shuttle crew. So it was a totally different world. But those friends that I made on the crew are still my really good friends today. And the really neat part about that was STS-127 had a launch delay of about a month. So they actually attempted to launch a few times, and then they were scrubbed for a month, and then attempted to launch again. And in between that month timeframe was when we found out that we were in the astronaut corps. And so when I came back for the second launch attempt as the flight surgeon, I had already been accepted into the corps. And so it was neat because those guys and ladies also celebrated that. And one of the neatest things that happened to me was when that Shuttle crew landed -- so we took up Tim Kopra on the Shuttle crew for his long-duration stay on Space Station and brought down Japanese astronaut Koichi Wakata. And so when we pick up a Shuttle crew, we have the special van that kind of hooks into the orbiter, and then we pull out the crew. And then we do all of our medical checks and everything. And I remember standing there and Koichi Wakata was the second or third person to come out of the orbiter. And he comes through the hatch and he see me and he goes, "Congratulations, you're going to love it." And I think this guy just landed, you know, on Endeavor and he looked at me and said -- and he congratulated me. I just thoughts that was one of the most selfless things that anybody could ever do. Host: That's right. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And it was just neat. And I don't know if he remembers that, but I remember that. Host: Wow. That's right. Because you can absolutely take that as your moment if you're landing, but he took the time to congratulate you. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yep. Host: That's amazing. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And most of them did when they walked off the orbiter. It was just a neat thing. I think Chris Cassidy was eating M&M's as he walked off and said congratulations. Host: So they made the announcement. So it was public at this time, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: It was public. Host: So everybody knew. What about when you got the call and had to keep it a secret for a little bit? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: When I got the call, you know, initially they said, "Hey, you can tell your close family members." So I did, and they were very excited. And I just remember I was sitting outside of a restaurant, waiting to go to lunch with a friend in my car when I got that call. Host: Oh. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And so, you know, the rumor was depending on who called you, you could tell whether or not you were in or not. So if you got a call from the chief of the office, generally it meant you were in. If you did not get a call from the chief of the office, then that meant you did not get in. So I remember receiving the phone call and I picked it up and said hello. And they said, "Hello, is this Serena?" And I said, "Yes it is. Who is this?" so I knew. And it was Peggy Whitson and Steve Lindsey. And so I knew at that point, you know, that I had gotten in. Yeah, yeah. So it was neat. Host: So you had to kind of maintain during lunch. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yep, yep. And then call my family. So. Host: Oh, of course. Of course. So all of this is happening all at the same time. You're deputy crew surgeon, you understand that you're an astronaut. So I want to go back to the deputy crew surgeon, though, because you said you got to work really closely and develop a relationship with the crew members. What does a deputy crew surgeon do for the Shuttle? It sounds like you're with them or a while. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: You're with them for a while through a lot of their training events. Generally what the lead and the deputy crew surgeon do is we kind of split up the crews as far as individual medical exams. So, for example, like, I was in charge of Doug Hurley, I was in charge of Chris Cassidy. And so, you know, you get to know those guys really well. And I had known Doug Hurley for some time because he worked out in Russia with me for a while in Star City. And so it was really kind of neat to work with him out there and then to become his deputy crew surgeon on his Shuttle mission. It was really exciting. And so you go to a lot of their training events. As they prep for launch and fly out to the Cape -- Cape Canaveral in Florida -- you often go out there with them. You get to know their families really well because you're with their families quite a bit during the pre-launch timeframe, during launch, and certainly after landing. So it's a very personal job. The flight surgeon, you know, it's a lot of preparation up front to make sure everybody's ready to go. And then you are there to provide whatever support is needed. And a lot of times that support's not medical, it may just be emotional. It may be, "Hey, let me help you get lunch today. Let me help you fix lunch for your kids," you know? It's a lot of that sort of stuff. Host: That's where the skills that you were talking about earlier come into play. When your friends were saying, "Hey, you should go into medicine. You're really good with people." So not only do you know medicine, but the whole job kind of I guess you could say demands that you have a relationship with the crew. Because you're with them for so much, you can't hate each other. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: You are, you are. And what I used to tell folks coming out to work as a flight surgeon in Star City is less than 10% to 15% of what you do is medical; the rest is just more emotional support, just supporting in whatever, meaning you're making dinner tonight. Or if someone is trying to fix a TV in one of the cottages, you help them fix the TV. Or it's little things, it's absolute little things. I mean, you're there, your calm presence is there, you know, in case -- knock on wood -- anything does happen. But a lot of it's just being there as a friend, really. Host: So was this job, helping out the crew of STS-127, was that the last thing you did as a non-astronaut? Did the transition happen pretty quickly after that? Or were there a couple things? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: It was. In fact, I was afraid if we scrubbed any longer, I wouldn't be able to take part in the mission. And I can't remember what the start date was. I want to say it was August 20th or so. And, you know, STS-127 launched in July, if I remember correctly. Host: They landed at the end of July. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Landed at the end of July. So I didn't have -- I had essentially two or three weeks post-landing before I entered the corps. And so there's a lot of work that goes on post landing, too -- reaction, debriefs, everything. And I basically took part in two weeks in that and I said, "I need a week off before I start my new job, I'm out." And so [Laughs]. Host: Well, yeah, you're about to go on a -- Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, and they all understood. So I was just really thankful that we did launch that second, you know, attempt, that second period and I was able to take part. Host: Right. Because I guess it was pretty -- as soon as you walked in the door as an astronaut day one, you hit road. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, you almost immediately hit the road trying to -- yeah. [00:28:40] Host: Wow. So what were some of the things you were doing? You did a couple really unique things. You lived under water, you went to Antarctica, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, I had a lot of really cool experiences the first -- I mean, the whole time has been a cool experience -- but certainly the first three or four years that I was in the corps. In 2010, you know, so I had really been in the corps a little over a year when Peggy Whitson -- I remember I was on an elliptical machine in the gym and she comes up to me and goes, "Hey, do you want to go to Antarctica?" [Laughs] And I remember saying sure. And so soon, very quickly I was on my way, prepping to go on this meteorite-hunting expedition for two months by the South Pole. I mean, it was one of the most remote locations on the planet. And just trying to prep for an experience like that and learn how to live in an extreme environment in an tent on the ice for two months, I mean, it's amazing. Host: So that was kind of the purpose of it, right, is to understand about living in an extreme environment but also the added benefit of maybe hunting for meteorites? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Well, the purpose of the mission -- so the mission was run out of Case Western University. And their purpose is finding meteorites. The purpose is the science; the astronaut office says, "Hey, we can provide a great worker to find meteorites because we think this is good as a good analog to Space Station. We think that living here itself benefits us more. And so we're perfectly willing to send you an astronaut to help take part in this expedition to find meteorites at the South Pole. These are our side benefits that we see." Because if you asked other people, a lot of the other scientists that were out there, their main goal was not -- I mean, it was neat that they were living in an extreme environment, but they didn't see how that would relate to Station. We do, though. And you do learn about a lot about yourself living in an environment like that -- very isolated, away from family, barely connect. I mean, you can connect through a sat phone, but you certainly didn't have any Internet or anything like that. I mean, you're much better connected on the Space Station than you are in Antarctica. So and it was just learning what we call good self-care and good team-care. And those are two very important expeditionary skills. And what I mean by that is self-care meaning recognizing signs of fatigue in yourself, recognizing when maybe you're not 100% for whatever reason -- you're hungry, your cold, you're tired, you're irritable. Why? You know? Can you pick up on those things early and talk with your team and say, "Look, I am not 100% today. Maybe these are the reasons." And then team care, that's recognizing those signs in your teammates and saying, "Wow, so and so looks really cold today." And we would use that. One of us would look really cold after a day of searching for meteorites. And so when we'd get back to our campsite, we'd say, "Hey, so and so, go in the tent and start the fire. We'll take of fueling up the snowmobiles. We'll stay outside a little longer." You know? And so it's recognizing that stuff not only in yourself but in your team to make sure you pick up on things early. Host: So you walked away with the benefit of maybe a more introspective look at -- Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely. Host: -- at saying this is me. And interpersonal, understanding your crew mates. But most importantly in the isolated environment, in this -- Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Exactly. Host: -- in this unique environment. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And that's the same thing we learn about with Nemo. Nemo is just -- it's not at the South Pole, but it is under the sea. You are isolated. You don't just swim up to the surface anytime you want because you're fully saturated. You know, your food selection is very limited because you're eating mostly freeze-dried things. Very similar to Station, although Station's menu is much larger than what we had on Nemo. But it's, again, learning what's important to you in those environments and what things you have to protect against -- fatigue, stress level. How important is talking to family? Is it every day what you need, is it every other day, you know? And Station provides all that for you, but it's learning how you work and how to make sure you pace yourself at a good tempo so you don't get too tired so that you maintain over the long haul. Host: Ah, so you're literally learning how to have these skills and basically just kind of transfer it to Space Station? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely, yeah. Host: Wow. So I kind of want it -- I mean, I'm sure you have a lot of training, and we've talked about training with a lot of the astronauts so far. But what's unique about you as a physician is you have a sort of unique perspective of doing research on the human body on the station. So I'm sure that's kind of -- you have a different perspective than maybe most. You know, you have -- as an astronaut you're sort of a subject for a lot of these experiments. But you are the subject, but also here I guess you're curious from the physician point of view, too. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah. I mean, so used to being the physician that treats the patient. And when you get up to Space Station, you are the patient. You are the science experiment. You are the one that everybody is observing, and looking at, and asking questions, and poking and prodding, and asking for samples [Laughs]. And I'm happy to give those. But, you know, I think just from a physician's mind because I've studied these phenomena for so long, you still think, "Well, how would I be? Would be that -- would my face be that puffy when I get up there? Will I feel sick to my stomach? If I do, how long will that last? Will I have a headache? How will I tolerate CO2?" You know, you think about all these things and you just learn. Because the human body is so widely variable amongst people, everybody's different. The neater part about the body and what I -- the term I like to use when I talk with folks is I don't think we give the body enough credit. The body is remarkably adaptable, remarkably dynamic. Pretty much you can put us in any situation -- low-level insult meaning low-levels of radiation, increased levels of carbon dioxide as compared to where we live here, microgravity -- and the body learns to live there. It learns how to adapt and eventually everything settles out and you feel somewhat normal for that environment. So I'm curious to see how long it will take me to get to that point, you know, and how I'll live and function up there. Those are my biggest questions. I'm really looking forward to that. Host: Wow, it's unique. Because it's not just -- I guess obviously if you're an astronaut, you would be curious to say, "Oh man, when am I going to feel better?" [ Laughter ] Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I hope I don't feel this bad for long. But it's inevitable. I mean, space adaptation syndrome -- 80% to 90% of folks get it, especially first-time fliers. Host: What's that, space adaptation syndrome? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: So space adaptation syndrome is a syndrome that folks get within the first few days, usually almost immediately upon going into orbit. And the symptoms can be anything from low-level nausea, maybe even vomiting, headache, again, feeling very puffy in the face because of that massive fluid shift that occurs. And so it's just a combination of a lot of things that -- I think it's that sudden shift into low-earth orbit where you body goes, "Oh my goodness, what did you just do? You are not going to feel good until we figure this out [Laughs], you know? I don't care what you think is going on here, but you're going to feel a little nauseas for a little bit of time." So it's -- you know, but everybody gets it to varying degrees. And folks who have flown before don't get it as severe. Why is that? I think the body remembers. The body adapts. It's just -- we say the brain is plastic. And people say what does that mean, plastic? Plasticity means the brain adapts and reforms neurons and reshapes neural connections and networks based on the input. So when you lose your gravitational cues, when gravity's no longer there and your middle ear doesn't know if you're pitching your head forward or turning to the right, it adapts. And it figures out a new reality. And when you lay back on the ground, it goes, "Oh my goodness, what did you just do? Okay, I think I remember -- I think this is gravity. Let me reshape those networks again and go back to where we used to be." So, again, we don't give the body enough credit. It is amazing how it can adapt. Host: See, when you say it like that, almost personifying the body as, like, "Whoa, what are you doing to me?" But then, like you said, it figures it out. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: It figures it out. Host: It finds a way. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: That's right. Host: And I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's the inner ear part. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah. Host: Up, down -- I mean, where is up and down? What the ear does is it shuts off, right? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Well, basically the semicircular canals, everything that -- that measures tilt and acceleration, a lot of those are gravitational cues. Your hear cells in the ear, all that is gravitational. When you don't have gravity, suddenly it goes, "Huh, how do I -- which way is up, which way is down?" Well, there is no up, there is no down. And so it just reshapes and you train it to live without gravity. And you train it so that if you are standing straight up or if you suddenly flip, still the same. You can't do that down here. And so, again, it's just remarkably adaptable. Host: That's right. I'll never forget a video when Tim Kopra was up for his -- for the most recent long-duration, he was there with Tim Peake, and they did this weird experiment where Kopra pretty much just spun Tim Peake as fast as he could doing rapid front flips. But Tim Peake didn't really get nauseous or anything. When he stopped suddenly, he felt something real quick. But other than that, his body was completely fine. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yep. Host: It was so weird. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah. Host: And then to your point of the body remembers, I'll never forget when Jeff Williams came up for the most recent time and I saw him get out of the hatch. And I saw another camera, one of the six pack cameras in mission control and he just was flying around the corner, just -- Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Like normal. Host: -- like normal. Like, "All right, I'm back. Time to go." Didn't get sick at all. Just ready to go. It was just amazing to see because you know that they're going to be sick or feel weird. Sometimes they come in upside down and don't know which way is -- Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Very disoriented, yeah. Host: But Jeff Williams had no problem. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Nope, his body remembered. His brain remembered. I fully expect Alex to be the same way. You know, Alex has flown before. And my Russian commander in the Soyuz, Serge [inaudible], you know, we're both rookies. And so I think, you know, now our journey to Space Station is two days long. We have a 34-orbit rendezvous. So we'll be in the capsule for a while. And that will give us a little bit of time to adjust. Host: Okay. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: But once we open that hatch into the larger volume of station, people say you get a little disoriented again because now what's up, what's down, left, right? You know, everything's different, So. Host: Do they tell you whenever you go to the hatch of the Soyuz just, like, "By the way, this is going to be the ceiling." Serena Aunon-Chancellor: No. Host: So you don't know? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: No. You figure it out. Because the thing is when you see people when you first come into station, they could be oriented -- one person could be upside down and one person -- Host: Oh, so they purposely throw you off? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: No, I think it's just natural for them. Host: Oh, I see. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: They don't think about it. Host: That's right. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: It's whatever's comfortable. Because you can work in 3D. Host: Yeah. It will be interesting to see -- I'm curious to see how you're going to look at it from a flight surgeon's perspective. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Absolutely. Me, too. Host: Have you talked with other flight surgeons who have flown like Chel [assumed spelling] or -- Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I have, I have. And you get different experience from both. And Mike Barrett especially is really good at explaining sort of these adaptation periods where you first get there and when you first get on Space Station, I mean, you will hold onto a handrail for dear life. Because you don't know how else to control yourself. Host: Oh, yeah. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: And you just -- and he shows pictures of himself very first couple days on station just holding onto everything with all this strength. Because he felt he needed to do that. And then after a period of time you realize just a slight toe tap, a slight touch and you can shift position and you can stabilize yourself. And you can go around a corner gracefully and not look like, you know, an acrobat that's fallen down. So he talks about these periods of adaptation until you reach this deep adaptation where your body just feels like it belongs there to a degree and you don't have to think twice about performing actions, or turning a corner, or where your head is positioned relative to your feet. It's not even something that even crosses your mind. Host: So are you absorbing all of these trips? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I try, yes [Laughs]. But I think the other one that I remember, too, is Mike Hopkins. Because I asked him, I said, "Hey, once you guys made it into orbit on the Soyuz, what do you feel like?" And he goes, "I felt like I was hanging from the ceiling." And it's called an inversion illusion. And he says, "I literally felt like my feet were on the ceiling and I was hanging upside down." And I've had a couple people say that. And they're not physically, but their brain is perceiving that. And my only guess is that because the fluid has started to shift upwards. And Kate Rubins also said it feels like you're hanging off the edge of your bed with your head down. And so is that where that's coming from? I don't know. So it's going to be fascinating. Host: Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think -- I'm trying to imagine myself. I mean, I'll never go to the Space Station. But I'm trying to imagine myself in this situation. And I can see, like you're saying, your body just trying to figure out what's up and down. I mean, if you're hanging upside down and you're looking, you understand, "Okay, I'm upside down." Maybe it's a little bit because of the gravity, but your sight, you know, you know that -- so if you have no way of telling if you're upside down or not, I imagine your vision just doing this [inaudible]. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Yeah, I think you just have to get used to it and just very quick the body adapts, it learns. Host: I'm getting dizzy just trying to think about it. [Laughs] Well, going up on your increment, anything that you're sort of look forward to, maybe a particular experiment or maybe some operations that are coming up on yours? Serena Aunon-Chancellor: I think, again, human science is one of the biggest things I'm looking forward to going up on station. And, again, we're hitting all parts of the body. There's experiments called fluid shifts, there are experiments called neuromapping. You know, we're looking at how the brain reacts being in low-earth orbit, being in microgravity. And then, again, with fluid shifts, looking at how the vessels change, your blood vessels change in microgravity. How does that impact the eyes? Because we do tend to see changes in the eyes of astronauts as they live on board a Space Station. And for some astronauts, that means that they can't read as well as they did before when they were on earth's surface. It's harder for them to read procedures. They become what we call a little more presbyopic, which means their close vision is not as good as it was. And so we think that there are a number of factors as to why this happens, but a good portion of it is the way fluid is shifting and moving in the body and maybe impacting the eyeball itself. So I'm most interested in looking at the changes and all the experiments that are done on us, on people. That bad said, there's a lot of engineering stuff that's going to be going on as well. We're going to be testing some new carbon dioxide removal systems onboard station. We're going to be changing out this really big panel inside our airlock. It's called the UIA. And the UIA panel is the panel that our two space walkers interact with prior to going outside on a space walk. That's a big deal when we change out something that big for space walks. So we'll be working on that. Hopefully we're going to see a lot of visiting vehicles, SpaceX Dragon capsules and Japanese HTV vehicles. So it's -- I'd love to see probably an unmanned commercial crew vehicle. Don't know if that will happen, but I will keep my fingers crossed. Host: Wow. A lot of great stuff coming up for you. And a lot of training until you get to there. So I guess, Serena, thank you so much for coming on. The best of luck on the rest of your training. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Thank you very much. Host: The best of luck on your mission. Thank you so much. Serena Aunon-Chancellor: Thank you very much. Glad to be here. [ Music ] Houston, go ahead. [Inaudible] of the Space Shuttle. Roger, zero G and I feel fine. Shuttle has cleared the [inaudible]. We came in peace for all mankind. It's actually a huge honor to break a record like this. Not because they are easy but because they are hard. [Inaudible] Houston, welcome to space. Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today we talked with Dr. Serena Aunon-Chancellor. She's going to be going to the International Space Station here in a few weeks. So you can follow her on her social media account. She's on Twitter at @AstroSerena. And she'll be sharing some pictures and some stories from her time aboard the International Space Station. You can also go to NASA.gov/ISS to get the latest and greatest on things going on aboard the International Space Station but also how you can watch her launch live. We'll also be streaming it on social media, especially Facebook, but I think it will be on Twitter. No, not Instagram. But anyway, you can follow us on any one of those platforms -- Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, the International Space Station accounts there. Otherwise you can listen to our stories going on across the center -- or actually across the agency -- and other NASA podcasts. So there's Gravity Assist hosted by Dr. Jim Green up at NASA headquarters and then NASA in Silicon Valley tells stories of different scientists and engineers and some of the cool stuff they're doing over at the Ames Research Center in California. But if you go to social media on our accounts, on the International Space Station accounts, you can use the hashtag #AskNASA on your favorite platform, whichever one you want, to submit an idea or maybe you have a question for the show. And just make sure to mention it's for Houston, We Have a Podcast, and we'll see if we can answer it or maybe dedicate an entire episode to it. So this episode was recorded on March 9th, 2018. Thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stole, Pat Ryan, John Streeter, Brandy Dean, and Kelly Humphries. And thanks again to Dr. Serena Aunon-Chancellor for coming on the show. We'll be back next week.

Cluster beam targets for laser plasma extreme ultraviolet and soft x-ray sources

DOEpatents

Kublak, G.D.; Richardson, M.C.

1996-11-19

Method and apparatus for producing extreme ultraviolet (EUV) and soft x-ray radiation from an ultra-low debris plasma source are disclosed. Targets are produced by the free jet expansion of various gases through a temperature controlled nozzle to form molecular clusters. These target clusters are subsequently irradiated with commercially available lasers of moderate intensity (10{sup 11}--10{sup 12} watts/cm{sup 2}) to produce a plasma radiating in the region of 0.5 to 100 nanometers. By appropriate adjustment of the experimental conditions the laser focus can be moved 10--30 mm from the nozzle thereby eliminating debris produced by plasma erosion of the nozzle. 5 figs.

Cluster beam targets for laser plasma extreme ultraviolet and soft x-ray sources

DOEpatents

Kublak, Glenn D.; Richardson, Martin C. (CREOL

1996-01-01

Method and apparatus for producing extreme ultra violet (EUV) and soft x-ray radiation from an ultra-low debris plasma source are disclosed. Targets are produced by the free jet expansion of various gases through a temperature controlled nozzle to form molecular clusters. These target clusters are subsequently irradiated with commercially available lasers of moderate intensity (10.sup.11 -10.sup.12 watts/cm.sup.2) to produce a plasma radiating in the region of 0.5 to 100 nanometers. By appropriate adjustment of the experimental conditions the laser focus can be moved 10-30 mm from the nozzle thereby eliminating debris produced by plasma erosion of the nozzle.

Simulation and Analysis of Neutron Activation Risk for the IsoDAR High-Intensity Electron Antineutrino Source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Skuhersky, Michael

2013-04-01

IsoDAR (Isotope Decay-At-Rest) is a proposed high-intensity source of electron antineutrinos intended for use in searches for beyond standard model physics, the main analysis being a short baseline search for sterile neutrinos at a kiloton scale liquid scintillator detector. The source uses a compact cyclotron to deliver 600kW of protons at 60 MeV/nucleon in the form of H2^+ onto a Beryllium target which produces a large intermediate energy neutron flux. These neutrons thermalize and capture on a 99.9% pure ^7Li sleeve, which produces ^8Li at rest, which subsequently beta decays producing νe. Due to the high neutron fluxes, large duty factor, and low background environment surrounding the neutrino detector, we need to understand the activation risk and design a shield to minimize this risk allowing for the safe operation of the source. I will report on my neutron activation studies and the benchmarking of Geant4 for these applications.

Biosynthesis of the enzymes of the cellulase system by T. Reesei QM 9414 in the presence of sophorose

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Gritzali, M.

1982-12-01

As conventional, nonrenewable energy sources are rapidly depleted and it was necessary to search for alternative sources of energy. It was increasingly apparent that biomass and waste are alternatives well worth exploring. The sources of biomass and wastes that considered for conversion to useful products are quite diverse, but the most abundant constituent of almost every type is cellulose. Cellulose is cleanly converted to soluble fermentable sugars enzymatically, and cellulose enzymes were isolated from a number of microbial sources. It is generally agreed that the most effective system of enzymes for the conversion of cellulose to glucose is produced by species of the imperfect fungus Trichoderma. The mutant organism Trichoderma reesei QM 9414 is among the best producers of high levels of enzymes; these are extracellular and have carbonhydrate covalently bound to the peptide. Trichoderma produces three types of enzymes which, in a sequential and cooperative manner, convert cellulose to soluble oligosaccharides and glucose.

Progress in the Development of a High Power Helicon Plasma Source for the Materials Plasma Exposure Experiment

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Goulding, Richard Howell; Caughman, John B.; Rapp, Juergen

Proto-MPEX is a linear plasma device being used to study a novel RF source concept for the planned Material Plasma Exposure eXperiment (MPEX), which will address plasma-materials interaction (PMI) for nuclear fusion reactors. Plasmas are produced using a large diameter helicon source operating at a frequency of 13.56 MHz at power levels up to 120 kW. In recent experiments the helicon source has produced deuterium plasmas with densities up to ~6 × 1019 m–3 measured at a location 2 m downstream from the antenna and 0.4 m from the target. Previous plasma production experiments on Proto-MPEX have generated lower densitymore » plasmas with hollow electron temperature profiles and target power deposition peaked far off axis. The latest experiments have produced flat Te profiles with a large portion of the power deposited on the target near the axis. This and other evidence points to the excitation of a helicon mode in this case.« less

High flux, beamed neutron sources employing deuteron-rich ion beams from D2O-ice layered targets

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Alejo, A.; Krygier, A. G.; Ahmed, H.; Morrison, J. T.; Clarke, R. J.; Fuchs, J.; Green, A.; Green, J. S.; Jung, D.; Kleinschmidt, A.; Najmudin, Z.; Nakamura, H.; Norreys, P.; Notley, M.; Oliver, M.; Roth, M.; Vassura, L.; Zepf, M.; Borghesi, M.; Freeman, R. R.; Kar, S.

2017-06-01

A forwardly-peaked bright neutron source was produced using a laser-driven, deuteron-rich ion beam in a pitcher-catcher scenario. A proton-free ion source was produced via target normal sheath acceleration from Au foils having a thin layer of D2O ice at the rear side, irradiated by sub-petawatt laser pulses (˜200 J, ˜750 fs) at peak intensity ˜ 2× {10}20 {{W}} {{cm}}-2. The neutrons were preferentially produced in a beam of ˜70° FWHM cone along the ion beam forward direction, with maximum energy up to ˜40 MeV and a peak flux along the axis ˜ 2× {10}9 {{n}} {{sr}}-1 for neutron energy above 2.5 MeV. The experimental data is in good agreement with the simulations carried out for the d(d,n)3He reaction using the deuteron beam produced by the ice-layered target.

Compact laser accelerators for X-ray phase-contrast imaging

PubMed Central

Najmudin, Z.; Kneip, S.; Bloom, M. S.; Mangles, S. P. D.; Chekhlov, O.; Dangor, A. E.; Döpp, A.; Ertel, K.; Hawkes, S. J.; Holloway, J.; Hooker, C. J.; Jiang, J.; Lopes, N. C.; Nakamura, H.; Norreys, P. A.; Rajeev, P. P.; Russo, C.; Streeter, M. J. V.; Symes, D. R.; Wing, M.

2014-01-01

Advances in X-ray imaging techniques have been driven by advances in novel X-ray sources. The latest fourth-generation X-ray sources can boast large photon fluxes at unprecedented brightness. However, the large size of these facilities means that these sources are not available for everyday applications. With advances in laser plasma acceleration, electron beams can now be generated at energies comparable to those used in light sources, but in university-sized laboratories. By making use of the strong transverse focusing of plasma accelerators, bright sources of betatron radiation have been produced. Here, we demonstrate phase-contrast imaging of a biological sample for the first time by radiation generated by GeV electron beams produced by a laser accelerator. The work was performed using a greater than 300 TW laser, which allowed the energy of the synchrotron source to be extended to the 10–100 keV range. PMID:24470414

Source rock potential in Pakistan

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Raza, H.A.

1991-03-01

Pakistan contains two sedimentary basins: Indus in the east and Balochistan in the west. The Indus basin has received sediments from precambrian until Recent, albeit with breaks. It has been producing hydrocarbons since 1914 from three main producing regions, namely, the Potwar, Sulaisman, and Kirthar. In the Potwar, oil has been discovered in Cambrian, Permian, Jurassic, and Tertiary rocks. Potential source rocks are identified in Infra-Cambrian, Permian, Paleocene, and Eocene successions, but Paleocene/Eocene Patala Formation seems to be the main source of most of the oil. In the Sulaiman, gas has been found in Cretaceous and Tertiary; condensate in Cretaceousmore » rocks. Potential source rocks are indicated in Cretaceous, Paleocene, and Eocene successions. The Sembar Formation of Early Cretaceous age appears to be the source of gas. In the Kirthar, oil and gas have been discovered in Cretaceous and gas has been discovered in paleocene and Eocene rocks. Potential source rocks are identified in Kirthar and Ghazij formations of Eocene age in the western part. However, in the easter oil- and gas-producing Badin platform area, Union Texas has recognized the Sembar Formation of Early Cretaceous age as the only source of Cretaceous oil and gas. The Balochistan basin is part of an Early Tertiary arc-trench system. The basin is inadequately explored, and there is no oil or gas discovery so far. However, potential source rocks have been identified in Eocene, Oligocene, Miocene, and Pliocene successions based on geochemical analysis of surface samples. Mud volcanoes are present.« less

Miniature ceramic fuel cell

DOEpatents

Lessing, Paul A.; Zuppero, Anthony C.

1997-06-24

A miniature power source assembly capable of providing portable electricity is provided. A preferred embodiment of the power source assembly employing a fuel tank, fuel pump and control, air pump, heat management system, power chamber, power conditioning and power storage. The power chamber utilizes a ceramic fuel cell to produce the electricity. Incoming hydro carbon fuel is automatically reformed within the power chamber. Electrochemical combustion of hydrogen then produces electricity.

40 CFR Table 3 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 11 2011-07-01 2011-07-01 false Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing... Pollutant Emissions: Group IV Polymers and Resins Pt. 63, Subpt. JJJ, Table 3 Table 3 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63—Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics...

40 CFR Table 3 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2012-07-01 2011-07-01 true Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing... Pollutant Emissions: Group IV Polymers and Resins Pt. 63, Subpt. JJJ, Table 3 Table 3 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63—Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics...

40 CFR Table 3 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2014-07-01 2014-07-01 false Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing... Hazardous Air Pollutant Emissions: Group IV Polymers and Resins Pt. 63, Subpt. JJJ, Table 3 Table 3 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63—Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed...

40 CFR Table 3 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 11 2010-07-01 2010-07-01 true Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing... Pollutant Emissions: Group IV Polymers and Resins Pt. 63, Subpt. JJJ, Table 3 Table 3 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63—Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics...

40 CFR Table 3 to Subpart Jjj of... - Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed Thermoplastics

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2013-07-01 2013-07-01 false Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing... Hazardous Air Pollutant Emissions: Group IV Polymers and Resins Pt. 63, Subpt. JJJ, Table 3 Table 3 to Subpart JJJ of Part 63—Group 1 Storage Vessels at Existing Affected Sources Producing the Listed...

Experimental Investigations of the Energy and Environmental Indices of Operation of a Low-Capacity Combined Gas Producer and Hot-Water Boiler

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Bodnar, L. A.; Stepanov, D. V.; Dovgal‧, A. N.

2015-07-01

It has been shown that the introduction of combined gas producers and boilers on renewable energy sources is a pressing issue. A structural diagram of a low-capacity combined gas producer and boiler on renewable energy sources has been given; a bench and procedures for investigation and processing of results have been developed. Experimental investigations of the energy and environmental indices of a 40-kW combined gas producer and hotwater boiler burning wood have been carried out. Results of the experimental investigations have been analyzed. Distinctive features have been established and a procedure of thermal calculation of the double furnace of a lowcapacity combined gas producer and boiler burning solid fuel has been proposed. The calculated coefficients of heat transfer from the gases in the convection bank have been compared with the obtained experimental results. A calculation dependence for the heat transfer from the gases in convection banks of low-capacity hot-water boilers has been proposed. The quantities of harmful emissions from the combined gas producer and boiler on renewable energy sources have been compared with the existing Ukrainian and foreign standards. It has been established that the environmental efficiency of the boiler under study complies with most of the standard requirements of European countries.

Comparison of Three Plasma Sources for Ambient Desorption/Ionization Mass Spectrometry

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

McKay, Kirsty; Salter, Tara L.; Bowfield, Andrew; Walsh, James L.; Gilmore, Ian S.; Bradley, James W.

2014-09-01

Plasma-based desorption/ionization sources are an important ionization technique for ambient surface analysis mass spectrometry. In this paper, we compare and contrast three competing plasma based desorption/ionization sources: a radio-frequency (rf) plasma needle, a dielectric barrier plasma jet, and a low-temperature plasma probe. The ambient composition of the three sources and their effectiveness at analyzing a range of pharmaceuticals and polymers were assessed. Results show that the background mass spectrum of each source was dominated by air species, with the rf needle producing a richer ion spectrum consisting mainly of ionized water clusters. It was also seen that each source produced different ion fragments of the analytes under investigation: this is thought to be due to different substrate heating, different ion transport mechanisms, and different electric field orientations. The rf needle was found to fragment the analytes least and as a result it was able to detect larger polymer ions than the other sources.

Comparison of three plasma sources for ambient desorption/ionization mass spectrometry.

PubMed

McKay, Kirsty; Salter, Tara L; Bowfield, Andrew; Walsh, James L; Gilmore, Ian S; Bradley, James W

2014-09-01

Plasma-based desorption/ionization sources are an important ionization technique for ambient surface analysis mass spectrometry. In this paper, we compare and contrast three competing plasma based desorption/ionization sources: a radio-frequency (rf) plasma needle, a dielectric barrier plasma jet, and a low-temperature plasma probe. The ambient composition of the three sources and their effectiveness at analyzing a range of pharmaceuticals and polymers were assessed. Results show that the background mass spectrum of each source was dominated by air species, with the rf needle producing a richer ion spectrum consisting mainly of ionized water clusters. It was also seen that each source produced different ion fragments of the analytes under investigation: this is thought to be due to different substrate heating, different ion transport mechanisms, and different electric field orientations. The rf needle was found to fragment the analytes least and as a result it was able to detect larger polymer ions than the other sources.

Intense beam production of highly charged heavy ions by the superconducting electron cyclotron resonance ion source SECRAL.

PubMed

Zhao, H W; Sun, L T; Zhang, X Z; Guo, X H; Cao, Y; Lu, W; Zhang, Z M; Yuan, P; Song, M T; Zhao, H Y; Jin, T; Shang, Y; Zhan, W L; Wei, B W; Xie, D Z

2008-02-01

There has been increasing demand to provide higher beam intensity and high enough beam energy for heavy ion accelerator and some other applications, which has driven electron cyclotron resonance (ECR) ion source to produce higher charge state ions with higher beam intensity. One of development trends for highly charged ECR ion source is to build new generation ECR sources by utilization of superconducting magnet technology. SECRAL (superconducting ECR ion source with advanced design in Lanzhou) was successfully built to produce intense beams of highly charged ion for Heavy Ion Research Facility in Lanzhou (HIRFL). The ion source has been optimized to be operated at 28 GHz for its maximum performance. The superconducting magnet confinement configuration of the ion source consists of three axial solenoid coils and six sextupole coils with a cold iron structure as field booster and clamping. An innovative design of SECRAL is that the three axial solenoid coils are located inside of the sextupole bore in order to reduce the interaction forces between the sextupole coils and the solenoid coils. For 28 GHz operation, the magnet assembly can produce peak mirror fields on axis of 3.6 T at injection, 2.2 T at extraction, and a radial sextupole field of 2.0 T at plasma chamber wall. During the commissioning phase at 18 GHz with a stainless steel chamber, tests with various gases and some metals have been conducted with microwave power less than 3.5 kW by two 18 GHz rf generators. It demonstrates the performance is very promising. Some record ion beam intensities have been produced, for instance, 810 e microA of O(7+), 505 e microA of Xe(20+), 306 e microA of Xe(27+), and so on. The effect of the magnetic field configuration on the ion source performance has been studied experimentally. SECRAL has been put into operation to provide highly charged ion beams for HIRFL facility since May 2007.

Intense beam production of highly charged heavy ions by the superconducting electron cyclotron resonance ion source SECRAL (invited)a)

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Zhao, H. W.; Sun, L. T.; Zhang, X. Z.; Guo, X. H.; Cao, Y.; Lu, W.; Zhang, Z. M.; Yuan, P.; Song, M. T.; Zhao, H. Y.; Jin, T.; Shang, Y.; Zhan, W. L.; Wei, B. W.; Xie, D. Z.

2008-02-01

There has been increasing demand to provide higher beam intensity and high enough beam energy for heavy ion accelerator and some other applications, which has driven electron cyclotron resonance (ECR) ion source to produce higher charge state ions with higher beam intensity. One of development trends for highly charged ECR ion source is to build new generation ECR sources by utilization of superconducting magnet technology. SECRAL (superconducting ECR ion source with advanced design in Lanzhou) was successfully built to produce intense beams of highly charged ion for Heavy Ion Research Facility in Lanzhou (HIRFL). The ion source has been optimized to be operated at 28GHz for its maximum performance. The superconducting magnet confinement configuration of the ion source consists of three axial solenoid coils and six sextupole coils with a cold iron structure as field booster and clamping. An innovative design of SECRAL is that the three axial solenoid coils are located inside of the sextupole bore in order to reduce the interaction forces between the sextupole coils and the solenoid coils. For 28GHz operation, the magnet assembly can produce peak mirror fields on axis of 3.6T at injection, 2.2T at extraction, and a radial sextupole field of 2.0T at plasma chamber wall. During the commissioning phase at 18GHz with a stainless steel chamber, tests with various gases and some metals have been conducted with microwave power less than 3.5kW by two 18GHz rf generators. It demonstrates the performance is very promising. Some record ion beam intensities have been produced, for instance, 810eμA of O7+, 505eμA of Xe20+, 306eμA of Xe27+, and so on. The effect of the magnetic field configuration on the ion source performance has been studied experimentally. SECRAL has been put into operation to provide highly charged ion beams for HIRFL facility since May 2007.

Benthic primary producers are key to sustain the Wadden Sea food web: stable carbon isotope analysis at landscape scale.

PubMed

Christianen, M J A; Middelburg, J J; Holthuijsen, S J; Jouta, J; Compton, T J; van der Heide, T; Piersma, T; Sinninghe Damsté, J S; van der Veer, H W; Schouten, S; Olff, H

2017-06-01

Coastal food webs can be supported by local benthic or pelagic primary producers and by the import of organic matter. Distinguishing between these energy sources is essential for our understanding of ecosystem functioning. However, the relative contribution of these components to the food web at the landscape scale is often unclear, as many studies lack good taxonomic and spatial resolution across large areas. Here, using stable carbon isotopes, we report on the primary carbon sources for consumers and their spatial variability across one of the world's largest intertidal ecosystems (Dutch Wadden Sea; 1460 km 2 intertidal surface area), at an exceptionally high taxonomic (178 species) and spatial resolution (9,165 samples from 839 locations). The absence of overlap in δ 13 C values between consumers and terrestrial organic matter suggests that benthic and pelagic producers dominate carbon input into this food web. In combination with the consistent enrichment of benthic primary producers (δ 13 C -16.3‰) relative to pelagic primary producers (δ 13 C -18.8) across the landscape, this allowed the use of a two-food-source isotope-mixing model. This spatially resolved modelling revealed that benthic primary producers (microphytobenthos) are the most important energy source for the majority of consumers at higher trophic levels (worms, molluscs, crustaceans, fish, and birds), and thus to the whole food web. In addition, we found large spatial heterogeneity in the δ 13 C values of benthic primary producers (δ 13 C -19.2 to -11.5‰) and primary consumers (δ 13 C -25.5 to -9.9‰), emphasizing the need for spatially explicit sampling of benthic and pelagic primary producers in coastal ecosystems. Our findings have important implications for our understanding of the functioning of ecological networks and for the management of coastal ecosystems. © 2017 by the Ecological Society of America.

Air Permitting Implications of a Biorefinery Producing Raw Bio-Oil in Comparison with Producing Gasoline and Diesel Blendstocks

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Bhatt, Arpit H; Zhang, Yi Min

A biorefinery, considered a chemical process plant under the Clean Air Act permitting program, could be classified as a major or minor source based on the size of the facility and magnitude of regulated pollutants emitted. Our previous analysis indicates that a biorefinery using fast pyrolysis conversion process to produce finished gasoline and diesel blendstocks with a capacity of processing 2,000 dry metric tons of biomass per day would likely be classified as a major source because several regulated pollutants (such as particulate matter, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide) are estimated to exceed the 100 tons per year (tpy) major sourcemore » threshold, applicable to chemical process plants. Being subject to a major source classification could pose additional challenges associated with obtaining an air permit in a timely manner before the biorefinery can start its construction. Recent developments propose an alternative approach to utilize bio-oil produced via the fast pyrolysis conversion process by shipping it to an existing petroleum refinery, where the raw bio-oil can be blended with petroleum-based feedstocks (e.g., vacuum gas oil) to produce gasoline and diesel blendstocks with renewable content. Without having to hydro-treat raw bio-oil, a biorefinery is likely to reduce its potential-to-emit to below the 100 tpy major source threshold, and therefore expedite its permitting process. We compare the PTE estimates for the two biorefinery designs with and without hydrotreating of bio-oils and examine the air permitting implications on potential air permit classification and discuss the best available control technology requirements for the major source biorefinery utilizing hydrotreating operation. Our analysis is expected to provide useful information to new biofuel project developers to identify opportunities to overcome challenges associated with air permitting.« less

Compact x-ray source and panel

DOEpatents

Sampayon, Stephen E [Manteca, CA

2008-02-12

A compact, self-contained x-ray source, and a compact x-ray source panel having a plurality of such x-ray sources arranged in a preferably broad-area pixelized array. Each x-ray source includes an electron source for producing an electron beam, an x-ray conversion target, and a multilayer insulator separating the electron source and the x-ray conversion target from each other. The multi-layer insulator preferably has a cylindrical configuration with a plurality of alternating insulator and conductor layers surrounding an acceleration channel leading from the electron source to the x-ray conversion target. A power source is connected to each x-ray source of the array to produce an accelerating gradient between the electron source and x-ray conversion target in any one or more of the x-ray sources independent of other x-ray sources in the array, so as to accelerate an electron beam towards the x-ray conversion target. The multilayer insulator enables relatively short separation distances between the electron source and the x-ray conversion target so that a thin panel is possible for compactness. This is due to the ability of the plurality of alternating insulator and conductor layers of the multilayer insulators to resist surface flashover when sufficiently high acceleration energies necessary for x-ray generation are supplied by the power source to the x-ray sources.

Ion source issues for the DAEδALUS neutrino experiment

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Alonso, Jose R., E-mail: JRAlonso@LBL.gov; Barletta, William A.; Toups, Matthew H.

2014-02-15

The DAEδALUS experiment calls for 10 mA of protons at 800 MeV on a neutrino-producing target. To achieve this record-setting current from a cyclotron system, H{sub 2}{sup +} ions will be accelerated. Loosely bound vibrationally excited H{sub 2}{sup +} ions inevitably produced in conventional ion sources will be Lorentz stripped at the highest energies. Presence of these states was confirmed at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory and strategies were investigated to quench them, leading to a proposed R and D effort towards a suitable ion source for these high-power cyclotrons.

Preparation of a deuterated polymer: Simulating to produce a solid tritium radioactive source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Hu, Rui; Kan, Wentao; Xiong, Xiaoling; Wei, Hongyuan

2017-08-01

The preparation of a deuterated polymer was performed in order to simulate the production of the corresponding tritiated polymer as a solid tritium radioactive source. Substitution and addition reaction were used to introduce deuterium into the polymer. Proton nuclear magnetic resonance and FT-IR spectroscopy were used to investigate the extent and location of deuterium in the polymer, indicating an effectively deuterated polymer was produced. The thermal analysis showed that the final polymer product could tolerate the environmental temperature below 125 °C in its application. This research provides a prosperous method to prepare solid tritium radioactive source.

Characterization of a gamma-ray source based on a laser-plasma accelerator with applications to radiography

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Edwards, R. D.; Sinclair, M. A.; Goldsack, T. J.; Krushelnick, K.; Beg, F. N.; Clark, E. L.; Dangor, A. E.; Najmudin, Z.; Tatarakis, M.; Walton, B.; Zepf, M.; Ledingham, K. W. D.; Spencer, I.; Norreys, P. A.; Clarke, R. J.; Kodama, R.; Toyama, Y.; Tampo, M.

2002-03-01

The application of high intensity laser-produced gamma rays is discussed with regard to picosecond resolution deep-penetration radiography. The spectrum and angular distribution of these gamma rays is measured using an array of thermoluminescent detectors for both an underdense (gas) target and an overdense (solid) target. It is found that the use of an underdense target in a laser plasma accelerator configuration produces a much more intense and directional source. The peak dose is also increased significantly. Radiography is demonstrated in these experiments and the source size is also estimated.

The US Spallation Neutron Source Project

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Olsen, David K.

1997-10-01

Slow neutrons, with wavelengths between a few tenths to a few tens of angstroms, are an important probe for condensed-matter physics and are produced with either fission reactors or accelerator-based spallation sources. The Spallation Neutron Source (SNS) is a collaborative project between DOE National Laboratories including LBNL, LANL, BNL, ANL and ORNL to build the next research neutron source in the US. This source will be sited at ORNL and is being designed to serve the needs of the neutron science community well into the next century. The SNS consists of a 1.1-mA H- front end and a 1.0-GeV high-intensity pulsed proton linac. The 1-ms pulses from the linac will be compressed in a 221-m-circumference accumulator ring to produce 600-ns pulses at a 60-Hz rate. This accelerator system will produce spallation neutrons from a 1.0-MW liquid Hg target for a broad spectrum of neutron scattering research with an initial target hall containing 18 instruments. The baseline conceptual design, critical issues, upgrade possibilities, and the collaborative arrangement will be discussed. It is expected that SNS construction will commence in FY99 and, following a seven year project, start operation in 2006.

Development of multi-pixel x-ray source using oxide-coated cathodes.

PubMed

Kandlakunta, Praneeth; Pham, Richard; Khan, Rao; Zhang, Tiezhi

2017-07-07

Multiple pixel x-ray sources facilitate new designs of imaging modalities that may result in faster imaging speed, improved image quality, and more compact geometry. We are developing a high-brightness multiple-pixel thermionic emission x-ray (MPTEX) source based on oxide-coated cathodes. Oxide cathodes have high emission efficiency and, thereby, produce high emission current density at low temperature when compared to traditional tungsten filaments. Indirectly heated micro-rectangular oxide cathodes were developed using carbonates, which were converted to semiconductor oxides of barium, strontium, and calcium after activation. Each cathode produces a focal spot on an elongated fixed anode. The x-ray beam ON and OFF control is performed by source-switching electronics, which supplies bias voltage to the cathode emitters. In this paper, we report the initial performance of the oxide-coated cathodes and the MPTEX source.

Charge exchange molecular ion source

DOEpatents

Vella, Michael C.

2003-06-03

Ions, particularly molecular ions with multiple dopant nucleons per ion, are produced by charge exchange. An ion source contains a minimum of two regions separated by a physical barrier and utilizes charge exchange to enhance production of a desired ion species. The essential elements are a plasma chamber for production of ions of a first species, a physical separator, and a charge transfer chamber where ions of the first species from the plasma chamber undergo charge exchange or transfer with the reactant atom or molecules to produce ions of a second species. Molecular ions may be produced which are useful for ion implantation.

Power-poor Philippines taps geothermal pool

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Not Available

1982-04-15

The current energy situation in the Philippines (75% imported oil) is reviewed and current and future activities in the area of geothermal energy use is discussed. It is estimated that by 1986, $830 million will be spent to develop the extensive geothermal sources to produce 13% of the nation's total energy. The high-quality geothermal sources are described as producing 162/sup 0/C water-steam mixture at a pressure of 6.68 kg/sec. Energy producing systems are described briefly as well as the environmental and equipment problems encountered already. The cost of geothermal energy is discussed (2.5 cents/kWh) and compared with energy costs ofmore » fossil-fuel and hydroelectricity. It is concluded that the geothermal energy sources should be a major contributor to the Philippines for at least 30 years. (MJJ)« less

Liquid-phase chromatography detector

DOEpatents

Voigtman, E.G.; Winefordner, J.D.; Jurgensen, A.R.

1983-11-08

A liquid-phase chromatography detector comprises a flow cell having an inlet tubular conduit for receiving a liquid chromatographic effluent and discharging it as a flowing columnar stream onto a vertically adjustable receiving surface spaced apart from and located vertically below and in close proximity to the discharge end of the tubular conduit; a receiver adapted to receive liquid overflowing from the receiving surface; an exit conduit for continuously removing liquid from the receiver; a light source for focusing fluorescence-producing light pulses on the flowing columnar stream as it passes from the outlet of the conduit to the receiving surface and a fluorescence detector to detect the produced fluorescence; a source of light pulse for producing acoustic waves in the columnar stream as it passes from the conduit outlet to the receiving surface; and a piezoelectric transducer adapted to detect those waves; and a source of bias voltage applied to the inlet tubular conduit and adapted to produce ionization of the liquid flowing through the flow cell so as to produce photocurrents therein and an electrical system to detect and record the photocurrents. This system is useful in separating and detecting individual chemical compounds from mixtures thereof. 5 figs.

Endophytic l-asparaginase-producing fungi from plants associated with anticancer properties.

PubMed

Chow, YiingYng; Ting, Adeline S Y

2015-11-01

Endophytes are novel sources of natural bioactive compounds. This study seeks endophytes that produce the anticancer enzyme l-asparaginase, to harness their potential for mass production. Four plants with anticancer properties; Cymbopogon citratus, Murraya koenigii, Oldenlandia diffusa and Pereskia bleo, were selected as host plants. l-Asparaginase-producing endophytes were detected by the formation of pink zones on agar, a result of hydrolyzes of asparagine into aspartic acid and ammonia that converts the phenol red dye indicator from yellow (acidic condition) to pink (alkaline condition). The anticancer enzyme asparaginase was further quantified via Nesslerization. Results revealed that a total of 89 morphotypes were isolated; mostly from P. bleo (40), followed by O. diffusa (25), C. citratus (14) and M. koenigii (10). Only 25 of these morphotypes produced l-asparaginase, mostly from P. bleo and their asparaginase activities were between 0.0069 and 0.025 μM mL(-1) min(-1). l-Asparaginase producing isolates were identified as probable species of the genus Colletotrichum, Fusarium, Phoma and Penicillium. Studies here revealed that endophytes are good alternative sources for l-asparaginase production and they can be sourced from anticancer plants, particularly P. bleo.

Endophytic l-asparaginase-producing fungi from plants associated with anticancer properties

PubMed Central

Chow, YiingYng; Ting, Adeline S.Y.

2014-01-01

Endophytes are novel sources of natural bioactive compounds. This study seeks endophytes that produce the anticancer enzyme l-asparaginase, to harness their potential for mass production. Four plants with anticancer properties; Cymbopogon citratus, Murraya koenigii, Oldenlandia diffusa and Pereskia bleo, were selected as host plants. l-Asparaginase-producing endophytes were detected by the formation of pink zones on agar, a result of hydrolyzes of asparagine into aspartic acid and ammonia that converts the phenol red dye indicator from yellow (acidic condition) to pink (alkaline condition). The anticancer enzyme asparaginase was further quantified via Nesslerization. Results revealed that a total of 89 morphotypes were isolated; mostly from P. bleo (40), followed by O. diffusa (25), C. citratus (14) and M. koenigii (10). Only 25 of these morphotypes produced l-asparaginase, mostly from P. bleo and their asparaginase activities were between 0.0069 and 0.025 μM mL−1 min−1. l-Asparaginase producing isolates were identified as probable species of the genus Colletotrichum, Fusarium, Phoma and Penicillium. Studies here revealed that endophytes are good alternative sources for l-asparaginase production and they can be sourced from anticancer plants, particularly P. bleo. PMID:26644924

Liquid-phase chromatography detector

DOEpatents

Voigtman, Edward G.; Winefordner, James D.; Jurgensen, Arthur R.

1983-01-01

A liquid-phase chromatography detector comprising a flow cell having an inlet tubular conduit for receiving a liquid chromatographic effluent and discharging it as a flowing columnar stream onto a vertically adjustable receiving surface spaced apart from and located vertically below and in close proximity to the discharge end of the tubular conduit; a receiver adapted to receive liquid overflowing from the receiving surface; an exit conduit for continuously removing liquid from the receiver; a light source for focussing fluorescence-producing light pulses on the flowing columnar stream as it passes from the outlet of the conduit to the receiving surface and a fluorescence detector to detect the produced fluorescence; a source of light pulse for producing acoustic waves in the columnar stream as it passes from the conduit outlet to the receiving surface; and a piezoelectric transducer adapted to detect those waves; and a source of bias voltage applied to the inlet tubular conduit and adapted to produce ionization of the liquid flowing through the flow cell so as to produce photocurrents therein and an electrical system to detect and record the photocurrents. This system is useful in separating and detecting individual chemical compounds from mixtures thereof.

Unequal-Strength Source zROC Slopes Reflect Criteria Placement and Not (Necessarily) Memory Processes

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Starns, Jeffrey J.; Pazzaglia, Angela M.; Rotello, Caren M.; Hautus, Michael J.; Macmillan, Neil A.

2013-01-01

Source memory zROC slopes change from below 1 to above 1 depending on which source gets the strongest learning. This effect has been attributed to memory processes, either in terms of a threshold source recollection process or changes in the variability of continuous source evidence. We propose 2 decision mechanisms that can produce the slope…

40 CFR 98.200 - Definition of source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Magnesium Production § 98.200 Definition of source category. The magnesium production and processing source category consists of the following processes: (a) Any process in which magnesium metal is produced through smelting (including electrolytic smelting), refining...

40 CFR 98.200 - Definition of source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Magnesium Production § 98.200 Definition of source category. The magnesium production and processing source category consists of the following processes: (a) Any process in which magnesium metal is produced through smelting (including electrolytic smelting), refining...

40 CFR 98.200 - Definition of source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Magnesium Production § 98.200 Definition of source category. The magnesium production and processing source category consists of the following processes: (a) Any process in which magnesium metal is produced through smelting (including electrolytic smelting), refining...

40 CFR 98.200 - Definition of source category.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... (CONTINUED) MANDATORY GREENHOUSE GAS REPORTING Magnesium Production § 98.200 Definition of source category. The magnesium production and processing source category consists of the following processes: (a) Any process in which magnesium metal is produced through smelting (including electrolytic smelting), refining...

40 CFR 415.225 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide Production... producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate process must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide-Sulfate Process Pollutant or pollutant property NSPS effluent...

40 CFR 415.225 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide Production... producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate process must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide-Sulfate Process Pollutant or pollutant property NSPS effluent...

40 CFR 415.225 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide Production... producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate process must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide-Sulfate Process Pollutant or pollutant property NSPS effluent...

40 CFR 415.225 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide Production... producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate process must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide-Sulfate Process Pollutant or pollutant property NSPS effluent...

40 CFR 415.225 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Titanium Dioxide Production... producing titanium dioxide by the sulfate process must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart V—Titanium Dioxide-Sulfate Process Pollutant or pollutant property NSPS effluent...

Rapid Monte Carlo Simulation of Gravitational Wave Galaxies

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Breivik, Katelyn; Larson, Shane L.

2015-01-01

With the detection of gravitational waves on the horizon, astrophysical catalogs produced by gravitational wave observatories can be used to characterize the populations of sources and validate different galactic population models. Efforts to simulate gravitational wave catalogs and source populations generally focus on population synthesis models that require extensive time and computational power to produce a single simulated galaxy. Monte Carlo simulations of gravitational wave source populations can also be used to generate observation catalogs from the gravitational wave source population. Monte Carlo simulations have the advantes of flexibility and speed, enabling rapid galactic realizations as a function of galactic binary parameters with less time and compuational resources required. We present a Monte Carlo method for rapid galactic simulations of gravitational wave binary populations.

21 CFR 872.1810 - Intraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2012-04-01 2012-04-01 false Intraoral source x-ray system. 872.1810 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1810 Intraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An intraoral source x-ray system is an electrically powered device that produces x-rays and is...

21 CFR 872.1810 - Intraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2010-04-01 2010-04-01 false Intraoral source x-ray system. 872.1810 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1810 Intraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An intraoral source x-ray system is an electrically powered device that produces x-rays and is...

21 CFR 872.1810 - Intraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2013-04-01 2013-04-01 false Intraoral source x-ray system. 872.1810 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1810 Intraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An intraoral source x-ray system is an electrically powered device that produces x-rays and is...

21 CFR 872.1810 - Intraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2011-04-01 2011-04-01 false Intraoral source x-ray system. 872.1810 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1810 Intraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An intraoral source x-ray system is an electrically powered device that produces x-rays and is...

Low energy spread ion source with a coaxial magnetic filter

DOEpatents

Leung, Ka-Ngo; Lee, Yung-Hee Yvette

2000-01-01

Multicusp ion sources are capable of producing ions with low axial energy spread which are necessary in applications such as ion projection lithography (IPL) and radioactive ion beam production. The addition of a radially extending magnetic filter consisting of a pair of permanent magnets to the multicusp source reduces the energy spread considerably due to the improvement in the uniformity of the axial plasma potential distribution in the discharge region. A coaxial multicusp ion source designed to further reduce the energy spread utilizes a cylindrical magnetic filter to achieve a more uniform axial plasma potential distribution. The coaxial magnetic filter divides the source chamber into an outer annular discharge region in which the plasma is produced and a coaxial inner ion extraction region into which the ions radially diffuse but from which ionizing electrons are excluded. The energy spread in the coaxial source has been measured to be 0.6 eV. Unlike other ion sources, the coaxial source has the capability of adjusting the radial plasma potential distribution and therefore the transverse ion temperature (or beam emittance).

Multi-Particle Interferometry Based on Double Entangled States

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Pittman, Todd B.; Shih, Y. H.; Strekalov, D. V.; Sergienko, A. V.; Rubin, M. H.

1996-01-01

A method for producing a 4-photon entangled state based on the use of two independent pair sources is discussed. Of particular interest is that each of the pair sources produces a two-photon state which is simultaneously entangled in both polarization and space-time variables. Performing certain measurements which exploit this double entanglement provides an opportunity for verifying the recent demonstration of nonlocality by Greenberger, Horne, and Zeilinger.

High current ion source

DOEpatents

Brown, Ian G.; MacGill, Robert A.; Galvin, James E.

1990-01-01

An ion source utilizing a cathode and anode for producing an electric arc therebetween. The arc is sufficient to vaporize a portion of the cathode to form a plasma. The plasma leaves the generation region and expands through another regon. The density profile of the plasma may be flattened using a magnetic field formed within a vacuum chamber. Ions are extracted from the plasma to produce a high current broad on beam.

Pyrolytic carbon black composite and method of making the same

DOEpatents

Naskar, Amit K.; Paranthaman, Mariappan Parans; Bi, Zhonghe

2016-09-13

A method of recovering carbon black includes the step of providing a carbonaceous source material containing carbon black. The carbonaceous source material is contacted with a sulfonation bath to produce a sulfonated material. The sulfonated material is pyrolyzed to produce a carbon black containing product comprising a glassy carbon matrix phase having carbon black dispersed therein. A method of making a battery electrode is also disclosed.

Screening for biosurfactant production by 2,4,6-trinitrotoluene-transforming bacteria.

PubMed

Avila-Arias, H; Avellaneda, H; Garzón, V; Rodríguez, G; Arbeli, Z; Garcia-Bonilla, E; Villegas-Plazas, M; Roldan, F

2017-08-01

To isolate and identify TNT-transforming cultures from explosive-contaminated soils with the ability to produce biosurfactants. Bacteria (pure and mixed cultures) were selected based on their ability to transform TNT in minimum media with TNT as the sole nitrogen source and an additional carbon source. TNT-transforming bacteria were identified by 16S rRNA gene sequencing. TNT transformation rates were significantly lower when no additional carbon or nitrogen sources were added. Surfactant production was enabled by the presence of TNT. Fourteen cultures were able to transform the explosive (>50%); of these, five showed a high transformation capacity (>90%), and six produced surfactants. All explosive-transforming cultures contained Proteobacteria of the genera Achromobacter, Stenotrophomonas, Pseudomonas, Sphingobium, Raoultella, Rhizobium and Methylopila. These cultures transformed TNT when an additional carbon source was added. Remarkably, Achromobacter spanius S17 and Pseudomonas veronii S94 have high TNT transformation rates and are surfactant producers. TNT is a highly toxic, mutagenic and carcinogenic nitroaromatic explosive; therefore, bioremediation to eliminate or mitigate its presence in the environment is essential. TNT-transforming cultures that produce surfactants are a promising method for remediation. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report that links surfactant production and TNT transformation by bacteria. © 2017 The Society for Applied Microbiology.

Sources and Uses of Weather Information for Agricultural Decision Makers.

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

McNew, Kevin P.; Mapp, Harry P.; Duchon, Claude E.; Merritt, Earl S.

1991-04-01

Numerous studies have examined the importance of weather information to farmers and ranchers across the U.S. This study is focused on the kinds of weather information received by farmers and ranchers, the sources of that information, and its use in production and marketing decisions. Our results are based on a survey of 292 producers from the principal agricultural areas of Oklahoma. Producers were classified into five categories related to their source of income from crop and livestock sales.Among temperature, precipitation, relative humility, and wind speed, temperature information was most widely received. Forecast lengths of highest interest were 24-h and 5-day forecasts. Precipitation information was used by many respondents for planting and harvesting decisions. Weather data and forecasts seem to be of greater value to diversified crop and livestock operators than specialized crop and livestock, perhaps due to more frequent timing decisions. Relative humility and wind information appear to be important especially during specific times of the growing season, for example, at harvest time and time of pesticide application. Television is the primary source of weather information for more than 60% of the producers.It appears that there may be a role for both public and private entities in transforming weather data and forecasts into recommendations to crop and livestock producers. Further research is needed to determine the potential value of weather information for alternative production, marketing and livestock decisions, different categories of producers, and different geographic regions.

Dust deposition in southern Nevada and California, 1984-1989: Relations to climate, source area, and source lithology

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Reheis, Marith C.; Kihl, Rolf

1995-05-01

Dust samples collected annually for 5 years from 55 sites in southern Nevada and California provide the first regional source of information on modern rates of dust deposition, grain size, and mineralogical and chemical composition relative to climate and to type and lithology of dust source. The average silt and clay flux (rate of deposition) in southern Nevada and southeastern California ranges from 4.3 to 15.7 g/m2/yr, but in southwestern California the average silt and clay flux is as high as 30 g/m2/yr. The climatic factors that affect dust flux interact with each other and with the factors of source type (playas versus alluvium), source lithology, geographic area, and human disturbance. Average dust flux increases with mean annual temperature but is not correlated to decreases in mean annual precipitation because the regional winds bring dust to relatively wet areas. In contrast, annual dust flux mostly reflects changes in annual precipitation (relative drought) rather than temperature. Although playa and alluvial sources produce about the same amount of dust per unit area, the total volume of dust from the more extensive alluvial sources is much larger. In addition, playa and alluvial sources respond differently to annual changes in precipitation. Most playas produce dust that is richer in soluble salts and carbonate than that from alluvial sources (except carbonate-rich alluvium). Gypsum dust may be produced by the interaction of carbonate dust and anthropogenic or marine sulfates. The dust flux in an arid urbanizing area may be as much as twice that before disturbance but decreases when construction stops. The mineralogic and major-oxide composition of the dust samples indicates that sand and some silt is locally derived and deposited, whereas clay and some silt from different sources can be far-traveled. Dust deposited in the Transverse Ranges of California by the Santa Ana winds appears to be mainly derived from sources to the north and east.

The Physiological Basis of Chinese Höömii Generation.

PubMed

Li, Gelin; Hou, Qian

2017-01-01

The study aimed to investigate the physiological basis of vibration mode of sound source of a variety of Mongolian höömii forms of singing in China. The participant is a Mongolian höömii performing artist who was recommended by the Chinese Medical Association of Art. He used three types of höömii, namely vibration höömii, whistle höömii, and overtone höömii, which were compared with general comfortable pronunciation of /i:/ as control. Phonation was observed during /i:/. A laryngostroboscope (Storz) was used to determine vibration source-mucosal wave in the throat. For vibration höömii, bilateral ventricular folds approximated to the midline and made contact at the midline during pronunciation. Ventricular and vocal folds oscillated together as a single unit to form a composite vibration (double oscillator) sound source. For whistle höömii, ventricular folds approximated to the midline to cover part of vocal folds, but did not contact each other. It did not produce mucosal wave. The vocal folds produced mucosal wave to form a single vibration sound source. For overtone höömii, the anterior two-thirds of ventricular folds touched each other during pronunciation. The last one-third produced the mucosal wave. The vocal folds produced mucosal wave at the same time, which was a composite vibration (double oscillator) sound source mode. The Höömii form of singing, including mixed voices and multivoice, was related to the presence of dual vibration sound sources. Its high overtone form of singing (whistle höömii) was related to stenosis at the resonance chambers' initiation site (ventricular folds level). Copyright © 2017 The Voice Foundation. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Controlling composition and color characteristics of Monascus pigments by pH and nitrogen sources in submerged fermentation.

PubMed

Shi, Kan; Song, Da; Chen, Gong; Pistolozzi, Marco; Wu, Zhenqiang; Quan, Lei

2015-08-01

Submerged fermentations of Monascus anka were performed with different nitrogen sources at different pH in 3 L bioreactors. The results revealed that the Monascus pigments dominated by different color components (yellow pigments, orange pigments or red pigments) could be selectively produced through pH control and nitrogen source selection. A large amount of intracellular pigments dominated by orange pigments and a small amount of water-soluble extracellular yellow pigments were produced at low pH (pH 2.5 and 4.0), independently of the nitrogen source employed. At higher pH (pH 6.5), the role of the nitrogen source became more significant. In particular, when ammonium sulfate was used as nitrogen source, the intracellular pigments were dominated by red pigments with a small amount of yellow pigments. Conversely, when peptone was used, intracellular pigments were dominated by yellow pigments with a few red pigments derivatives. Neither the presence of peptone nor ammonium sulfate promoted the production of intracellular orange pigments while extracellular pigments with an orangish red color were observed in both cases, with a higher yield when peptone was used. Two-stage pH control fermentation was then performed to improve desirable pigments yield and further investigate the effect of pH and nitrogen sources on pigments composition. These results provide a useful strategy to produce Monascus pigments with different composition and different color characteristics. Copyright © 2015 The Society for Biotechnology, Japan. Published by Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

Differences in carbon source utilisation by orchid mycorrhizal fungi from common and endangered species of Caladenia (Orchidaceae).

PubMed

Mehra, S; Morrison, P D; Coates, F; Lawrie, A C

2017-02-01

Terrestrial orchids depend on orchid mycorrhizal fungi (OMF) as symbionts for their survival, growth and nutrition. The ability of OMF from endangered orchid species to compete for available resources with OMF from common species may affect the distribution, abundance and therefore conservation status of their orchid hosts. Eight symbiotically effective OMF from endangered and more common Caladenia species were tested for their ability to utilise complex insoluble and simple soluble carbon sources produced during litter degradation by growth with different carbon sources in liquid medium to measure the degree of OMF variation with host conservation status or taxonomy. On simple carbon sources, fungal growth was assessed by biomass. On insoluble substrates, ergosterol content was assessed using ultra-performance liquid chromatography (UPLC). The OMF grew on all natural materials and complex carbon sources, but produced the greatest biomass on xylan and starch and the least on bark and chitin. On simple carbon sources, the greatest OMF biomass was measured on most hexoses and disaccharides and the least on galactose and arabinose. Only some OMF used sucrose, the most common sugar in green plants, with possible implications for symbiosis. OMF from common orchids produced more ergosterol and biomass than those from endangered orchids in the Dilatata and Reticulata groups but not in the Patersonii and Finger orchids. This suggests that differences in carbon source utilisation may contribute to differences in the distribution of some orchids, if these differences are retained on site.

The mechanical design and simulation of a scaled H⁻ Penning ion source.

PubMed

Rutter, T; Faircloth, D; Turner, D; Lawrie, S

2016-02-01

The existing ISIS Penning H(-) source is unable to produce the beam parameters required for the front end test stand and so a new, high duty factor, high brightness scaled source is being developed. This paper details first the development of an electrically biased aperture plate for the existing ISIS source and second, the design, simulation, and development of a prototype scaled source.

The mechanical design and simulation of a scaled H- Penning ion source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Rutter, T.; Faircloth, D.; Turner, D.; Lawrie, S.

2016-02-01

The existing ISIS Penning H- source is unable to produce the beam parameters required for the front end test stand and so a new, high duty factor, high brightness scaled source is being developed. This paper details first the development of an electrically biased aperture plate for the existing ISIS source and second, the design, simulation, and development of a prototype scaled source.

Identification of Dust Source Regions at High-Resolution and Dynamics of Dust Source Mask over Southwest United States Using Remote Sensing Data

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Sprigg, W. A.; Sahoo, S.; Prasad, A. K.; Venkatesh, A. S.; Vukovic, A.; Nickovic, S.

2015-12-01

Identification and evaluation of sources of aeolian mineral dust is a critical task in the simulation of dust. Recently, time series of space based multi-sensor satellite images have been used to identify and monitor changes in the land surface characteristics. Modeling of windblown dust requires precise delineation of mineral dust source and its strength that varies over a region as well as seasonal and inter-annual variability due to changes in land use and land cover. Southwest USA is one of the major dust emission prone zone in North American continent where dust is generated from low lying dried-up areas with bare ground surface and they may be scattered or appear as point sources on high resolution satellite images. In the current research, various satellite derived variables have been integrated to produce a high-resolution dust source mask, at grid size of 250 m, using data such as digital elevation model, surface reflectance, vegetation cover, land cover class, and surface wetness. Previous dust source models have been adopted to produce a multi-parameter dust source mask using data from satellites such as Terra (Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer - MODIS), and Landsat. The dust source mask model captures the topographically low regions with bare soil surface, dried-up river plains, and lakes which form important source of dust in southwest USA. The study region is also one of the hottest regions of USA where surface dryness, land use (agricultural use), and vegetation cover changes significantly leading to major changes in the areal coverage of potential dust source regions. A dynamic high resolution dust source mask have been produced to address intra-annual change in the aerial extent of bare dry surfaces. Time series of satellite derived data have been used to create dynamic dust source masks. A new dust source mask at 16 day interval allows enhanced detection of potential dust source regions that can be employed in the dust emission and transport pathways models for better estimation of emission of dust during dust storms, particulate air pollution, public health risk assessment tools and decision support systems.

SOURCE EXPLORER: Towards Web Browser Based Tools for Astronomical Source Visualization and Analysis

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Young, M. D.; Hayashi, S.; Gopu, A.

2014-05-01

As a new generation of large format, high-resolution imagers come online (ODI, DECAM, LSST, etc.) we are faced with the daunting prospect of astronomical images containing upwards of hundreds of thousands of identifiable sources. Visualizing and interacting with such large datasets using traditional astronomical tools appears to be unfeasible, and a new approach is required. We present here a method for the display and analysis of arbitrarily large source datasets using dynamically scaling levels of detail, enabling scientists to rapidly move from large-scale spatial overviews down to the level of individual sources and everything in-between. Based on the recognized standards of HTML5+JavaScript, we enable observers and archival users to interact with their images and sources from any modern computer without having to install specialized software. We demonstrate the ability to produce large-scale source lists from the images themselves, as well as overlaying data from publicly available source ( 2MASS, GALEX, SDSS, etc.) or user provided source lists. A high-availability cluster of computational nodes allows us to produce these source maps on demand and customized based on user input. User-generated source lists and maps are persistent across sessions and are available for further plotting, analysis, refinement, and culling.

Progress in the development of an H{sup −} ion source for cyclotrons

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Etoh, H., E-mail: Hrh-Etoh@shi.co.jp; Aoki, Y.; Mitsubori, H.

2015-04-08

A multi-cusp DC H{sup −} ion source has been developed for cyclotrons in medical use. Beam optics of the H{sup −} ion beam is studied using a 2D beam trajectory code. The simulation results are compared with the experimental results obtained in the Mark I source, which has produced up to 16 mA H{sup −} ion beams. The optimum extraction voltages show good agreement between the calculation and the experimental results. A new ion source, Mark II source, is designed to achieve the next goal of producing an H{sup −} beam of 20 mA. The magnetic field configurations and the plasma electrodemore » design are optimized for Cs-seeded operation. Primary electron trajectory simulation shows that primary electrons are confined well and the magnetic filter prevents the primary electrons from entering into the extraction region.« less

Electrode structure of a compact microwave driven capacitively coupled atomic beam source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Shimabukuro, Yuji; Takahashi, Hidenori; Wada, Motoi

2018-01-01

A compact magnetic field free atomic beam source was designed, assembled and tested the performance to produce hydrogen and nitrogen atoms. A forced air-cooled solid-state microwave power supply at 2.45 GHz frequency drives the source up to 100 W through a coaxial transmission cable coupled to a triple stub tuner for realizing a proper matching condition to the discharge load. The discharge structure of the source affected the range of operation pressure, and the pressure was reduced by four orders of magnitude through improving the electrode geometry to enhance the local electric field intensity. Optical emission spectra of the produced plasmas indicate production of hydrogen and nitrogen atoms, while the flux intensity of excited nitrogen atoms monitored by a surface ionization type detector showed the signal level close to a source developed for molecular beam epitaxy applications with 500 W RF power.

Spectral characteristics of quantum-cascade laser operating at 10.6 μm wavelength for a seed application in laser-produced-plasma extreme UV source.

PubMed

Nowak, Krzysztof M; Ohta, Takeshi; Suganuma, Takashi; Yokotsuka, Toshio; Fujimoto, Junichi; Mizoguchi, Hakaru; Endo, Akira

2012-11-15

In this Letter, we investigate, for the first time to our knowledge, the spectral properties of a quantum-cascade laser (QCL) from a point of view of a new application as a laser seeder for a nanosecond-pulse high-repetition frequency CO(2) laser operating at 10.6 μm wavelength. The motivation for this work is a renewed interest in such a pulse format and wavelength driven by a development of extreme UV (EUV) laser-produced-plasma (LPP) sources. These sources use pulsed multikilowatt CO(2) lasers to drive the EUV-emitting plasmas. Basic spectral performance characteristics of a custom-made QCL chip are measured, such as tuning range and chirp rate. The QCL is shown to have all essential qualities of a robust seed source for a high-repetition nanosecond-pulsed CO(2) laser required by EUV LPP sources.

Iron management and production of electricity by microorganisms.

PubMed

Folgosa, Filipe; Tavares, Pedro; Pereira, Alice S

2015-10-01

The increasing dependency on fossil fuels has driven researchers to seek for alternative energy sources. Renewable energy sources such as sunlight, wind, or water are the most common. However, since the 1990s, other sources for energy production have been studied. The use of microorganisms such as bacteria or archaea to produce energy is currently in great progress. These present several advantages even when compared with other renewable energy sources. Besides the energy production, they are also involved in bioremediation such as the removal of heavy metal contaminants from soils or wastewaters. Several research groups have demonstrated that these organisms are able to interact with electrodes via heme and non-heme iron proteins. Therefore, the role of iron as well as iron metabolism in these species must be of enormous relevance. Recently, the influence of cellular iron regulation by Fur in the Geobacter sulfurreducens growth and ability to produce energy was demonstrated. In this review, we aim to briefly describe the most relevant proteins involved in the iron metabolism of bacteria and archaea and relate them and their biological function with the ability of selected organisms to produce energy.

Trace Metals in Saharan Dust: The Use of in Vitro Bioaccessibility Extractions To Assess Potential Health Risks in a Dustier World: Chapter 3

USGS Publications Warehouse

Morman, Suzette A.; Garrison, Virginia H.; Plumlee, Geoffrey S.

2013-01-01

Exposure to fine particulate matter (PM) is acknowledged as a risk factor for human morbidity and mortality. Epidemiology and toxicology studies have focused on anthropogenic sources of PM and few consider contributions produced by natural processes (geogenic), or PM produced from natural sources as a result of human activities (geoanthropogenic PM). The focus of this study was to elucidate relationships between human/ecosystem health and dusts produced by a system transitioning from a dominantly natural to a geoanthropogenic PM source. As part of a larger study investigating the relationship between atmospheric transportation of African dust, human health, and coral reef declines, we examined dust samples sourced in Mali, Africa, collected using high-volume samplers from three sites (Mali, Tobago and U.S. Virgin Islands). Inhalation and ingestion exposure pathways were explored by filter extractions using simulated lung and gastric fluids. Bioaccessibility varied by metal and extraction fluid. Although too few samples were analyzed for robust statistics, concentrations for several metals decreased slightly while bioaccessibility increased at downwind sites.

Screening of biosurfactant-producing Bacillus strains using glycerol from the biodiesel synthesis as main carbon source.

PubMed

Sousa, M; Melo, V M M; Rodrigues, S; Sant'ana, H B; Gonçalves, L R B

2012-08-01

Glycerol, a co-product of biodiesel production, was evaluated as carbon source for biosurfactant production. For this reason, seven non-pathogenic biosurfactant-producing Bacillus strains, isolated from the tank of chlorination at the Wastewater Treatment Plant at Federal University of Ceara, were screened. The production of biosurfactant was verified by determining the surface tension value, as well as the emulsifying capacity of the free-cell broth against soy oil, kerosene and N-hexadecane. Best results were achieved when using LAMI005 and LAMI009 strains, whose biosurfactant reduced the surface tension of the broth to 28.8 ± 0.0 and 27.1 ± 0.1 mN m(-1), respectively. Additionally, at 72 h of cultivation, 441.06 and 267.56 mg L(-1) of surfactin were produced by LAMI005 and LAMI009, respectively. The biosurfactants were capable of forming stable emulsions with various hydrocarbons, such as soy oil and kerosene. Analyses carried out with high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) showed that the biosurfactant produced by Bacillus subtilis LAMI009 and LAMI005 was compatible with the commercially available surfactin standard. The values of minimum surface tension and the CMC of the produced biosurfactant indicated that it is feasible to produce biosurfactants from a residual and renewable and low-cost carbon source, such as glycerol.

Innovative Technologies for Maskless Lithography and Non-Conventional Patterning

DTIC Science & Technology

2008-08-01

wave sources are used and quantitative data is produced on the local field intensities and scattered plane and plasmon wave amplitudes and phases...transistors”, Transducers 2007, Lyon, France, 3EH5.P, 2007. 9. D. Huang and V. Subramanian “Iodine-doped pentacene schottky diodes for high-frequency RFID...wave sources are used and quantitative data is produced on the local field intensities and scattered plane and plasmon wave amplitudes and phases

Low-debris, efficient laser-produced plasma extreme ultraviolet source by use of a regenerative liquid microjet target containing tin dioxide (SnO2) nanoparticles

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Higashiguchi, Takeshi; Dojyo, Naoto; Hamada, Masaya; Sasaki, Wataru; Kubodera, Shoichi

2006-05-01

We demonstrated a low-debris, efficient laser-produced plasma extreme ultraviolet (EUV) source by use of a regenerative liquid microjet target containing tin-dioxide (SnO2) nanoparticles. By using a low SnO2 concentration (6%) solution and dual laser pulses for the plasma control, we observed the EUV conversion efficiency of 1.2% with undetectable debris.

Estimative of conversion fractions of AGN magnetic luminosity to produce ultra high energy cosmic rays from the observation of Fermi-LAT gamma rays

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Coimbra-Araújo, Carlos H.; Anjos, Rita C.

2017-01-01

A fraction of the magnetic luminosity (LB) produced by Kerr black holes in some active galactic nuclei (AGNs) can produce the necessary energy to accelerate ultra high energy cosmic rays (UHECRs) beyond the GZK limit, observed, e.g., by the Pierre Auger experiment. Nevertheless, the direct detection of those UHECRs has a lack of information about the direction of the source from where those cosmic rays are coming, since charged particles are deflected by the intergalactic magnetic field. This problem arises the needing of alternative methods to evaluate the luminosity of UHECRs (LCR) from a given source. Methods proposed in literature range from the observation of upper limits in gamma rays to the observation of upper limits in neutrinos produced by cascade effects during the propagation of UHECRs. In this aspect, the present work proposes a method to calculate limits of the main possible conversion fractions ηCR = LCR/LB for nine UHECR AGN Seyfert sources based on the respective observation of gamma ray upper limits from Fermi-LAT data.

Speed of CMEs and the Magnetic Non-Potentiality of their Source Active Regions

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Tiwari, Sanjiv Kumar; Falconer, David Allen; Moore, Ronald L.; Venkatakrishnan, P.; Winebarger, Amy R.; Khazanov, Igor G.

2014-01-01

Most fast coronal mass ejections (CMEs) originate from solar active regions (ARs). Non-potentiality of ARs plausibly determines the speed of CMEs in the outer corona. Several other unexplored parameters might be important as well. To find out the relation between the intial speed of CMEs and the non-potentiality of source ARs, we identified over a hundred of CMEs with source ARs via their co-produced flares. The speed of the CMEs are collected from the SOHO LASCO CME catalog. We have used vector magnetograms obtained with HMI/SDO, to evaluate various magnetic non-potentiality parameters, e.g. magnetic free-energy proxies, twist, shear angle, signed shear angle, net current etc. We have also included several other parameters e.g. total unsigned flux, magnetic area of ARs, area of sunspots, to investigate their correlation, if any, with the initial speeds of CMEs. Our preliminary results show that the ARs with larger non-potentiality and area produce faster CMEs but they can also produce slow ones. The ARs with lesser non-potentiality and area generally produce only slower CMEs.

Item Strength Influences Source Confidence and Alters Source Memory zROC Slopes

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Starns, Jeffrey J.; Ksander, John C.

2016-01-01

Increasing the number of study trials creates a crossover pattern in source memory zROC slopes; that is, the slope is either below or above 1 depending on which source receives stronger learning. This pattern can be produced if additional learning affects memory processes such as the relative contribution of recollection and familiarity to source…

21 CFR 872.1800 - Extraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2013-04-01 2013-04-01 false Extraoral source x-ray system. 872.1800 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1800 Extraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An extraoral source x-ray system is an AC-powered device that produces x-rays and is intended for...

21 CFR 872.1800 - Extraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2012-04-01 2012-04-01 false Extraoral source x-ray system. 872.1800 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1800 Extraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An extraoral source x-ray system is an AC-powered device that produces x-rays and is intended for...

21 CFR 872.1800 - Extraoral source x-ray system.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-04-01

... 21 Food and Drugs 8 2010-04-01 2010-04-01 false Extraoral source x-ray system. 872.1800 Section... (CONTINUED) MEDICAL DEVICES DENTAL DEVICES Diagnostic Devices § 872.1800 Extraoral source x-ray system. (a) Identification. An extraoral source x-ray system is an AC-powered device that produces x-rays and is intended for...

HAL/S-FC and HAL/S-360 compiler system program description

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

1976-01-01

The compiler is a large multi-phase design and can be broken into four phases: Phase 1 inputs the source language and does a syntactic and semantic analysis generating the source listing, a file of instructions in an internal format (HALMAT) and a collection of tables to be used in subsequent phases. Phase 1.5 massages the code produced by Phase 1, performing machine independent optimization. Phase 2 inputs the HALMAT produced by Phase 1 and outputs machine language object modules in a form suitable for the OS-360 or FCOS linkage editor. Phase 3 produces the SDF tables. The four phases described are written in XPL, a language specifically designed for compiler implementation. In addition to the compiler, there is a large library containing all the routines that can be explicitly called by the source language programmer plus a large collection of routines for implementing various facilities of the language.

Nanofiltration/reverse osmosis for treatment of coproduced waters

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Mondal, S.; Hsiao, C.L.; Wickramasinghe, S.R.

2008-07-15

Current high oil and gas prices have lead to renewed interest in exploration of nonconventional energy sources such as coal bed methane, tar sand, and oil shale. However oil and gas production from these nonconventional sources has lead to the coproduction of large quantities of produced water. While produced water is a waste product from oil and gas exploration it is a very valuable natural resource in the arid Western United States. Thus treated produced water could be a valuable new source of water. Commercially available nanofiltration and low pressure reverse osmosis membranes have been used to treat three producedmore » waters. The results obtained here indicate that the permeate could be put to beneficial uses such as crop and livestock watering. However minimizing membrane fouling will be essential for the development of a practical process. Field Emission Scanning Electron Microscopy imaging may be used to observe membrane fouling.« less

Neutron interrogation systems using pyroelectric crystals and methods of preparation thereof

DOEpatents

Tang, Vincent; Meyer, Glenn A.; Falabella, Steven; Guethlein, Gary; Rusnak, Brian; Sampayan, Stephen; Spadaccini, Christopher M.; Wang, Li-Fang; Harris, John; Morse, Jeff

2017-08-01

According to one embodiment, an apparatus includes a pyroelectric crystal, a deuterated or tritiated target, an ion source, and a common support coupled to the pyroelectric crystal, the deuterated or tritiated target, and the ion source. In another embodiment, a method includes producing a voltage of negative polarity on a surface of a deuterated or tritiated target in response to a temperature change of a pyroelectric crystal, pulsing a deuterium ion source to produce a deuterium ion beam, accelerating the deuterium ion beam to the deuterated or tritiated target to produce a neutron beam, and directing the ion beam onto the deuterated or tritiated target to make neutrons using a voltage of the pyroelectric crystal and/or an HGI surrounding the pyroelectric crystal. The directionality of the neutron beam is controlled by changing the accelerating voltage of the system. Other apparatuses and methods are presented as well.

SOURCES, EMISSION AND EXPOSURE TO TRICHLOROETHYLENE (TCE) AND RELATED CHEMICALS

EPA Science Inventory

This report documents the sources, emission, environmental fate and exposures for TCE, some of its metabolites, and some other chemicals known to produce identical metabolites. The major findings for TCE are:

1. The primary sources releasing TCE to the environment ...

2. 40 CFR 415.365 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

   Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

   2010-07-01

   ... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Copper Salts Production... producing copper sulfate, copper chloride, copper iodide, or copper nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): The limitations for pH, TSS, copper (T), nickel (T), and selenium (T...

3. 40 CFR 415.365 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

   Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

   2011-07-01

   ... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Copper Salts Production... producing copper sulfate, copper chloride, copper iodide, or copper nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): The limitations for pH, TSS, copper (T), nickel (T), and selenium (T...

4. 40 CFR 415.366 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

   Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

   2011-07-01

   ...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Copper Salts... CFR 403.7, any new source subject to this subpart and producing copper sulfate, copper chloride, copper iodide, or copper nitrate which introduces pollutants into a publicly owned treatment works must...

5. 40 CFR 415.366 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

   Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

   2010-07-01

   ...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS INORGANIC CHEMICALS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Copper Salts... CFR 403.7, any new source subject to this subpart and producing copper sulfate, copper chloride, copper iodide, or copper nitrate which introduces pollutants into a publicly owned treatment works must...

6. Data processing with microcode designed with source coding

   DOEpatents

   McCoy, James A; Morrison, Steven E

   2013-05-07

   Programming for a data processor to execute a data processing application is provided using microcode source code. The microcode source code is assembled to produce microcode that includes digital microcode instructions with which to signal the data processor to execute the data processing application.

7. Microsecond Electron Beam Source with Electron Energy Up to 400 Kev and Plasma Anode

   NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

   Abdullin, É. N.; Basov, G. F.; Shershnev, S.

   2017-12-01

   A new high-power source of electrons with plasma anode for producing high-current microsecond electron beams with electron energy up to 400 keV has been developed, manufactured, and put in operation. To increase the cross section and pulse current duration of the beam, a multipoint explosive emission cathode is used in the electron beam source, and the beam is formed in an applied external guiding magnetic field. The Marx generator with vacuum insulation is used as a high-voltage source. Electron beams with electron energy up to 300-400 keV, current of 5-15 kA, duration of 1.5-3 μs, energy up to 4 kJ, and cross section up to 150 cm2 have been produced. The operating modes of the electron beam source are realized in which the applied voltage is influenced weakly on the current. The possibility of source application for melting of metal surfaces is demonstrated.

8. MEMS-based IR-sources

   NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

   Weise, Sebastian; Steinbach, Bastian; Biermann, Steffen

   2016-03-01

   The series JSIR350 sources are MEMS based infrared emitters. These IR sources are characterized by a high radiation output. Thus, they are excellent for NDIR gas analysis and are ideally suited for using with our pyro-electric or thermopile detectors. The MEMS chips used in Micro-Hybrid's infrared emitters consist of nano-amorphous carbon (NAC). The MEMS chips are produced in the USA. All Micro-Hybrid Emitter are designed and specified to operate up to 850°C. The improvements we have made in the source's packaging enable us to provide IR sources with the best performance on the market. This new technology enables us to seal the housings of infrared radiation sources with soldered infrared filters or windows and thus cause the parts to be impenetrable to gases. Micro-Hybrid provide various ways of adapting our MEMS based infrared emitter JSIR350 to customer specifications, like specific burn-in parameters/characteristic, different industrial standard housings, producible with customized cap, reflector or pin-out.

9. Duoplasmatron source modifications for 3He+ operation

   NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

   Schmidt, C. W.; Popovic, M.

   1998-02-01

   A duoplasmatron ion source is used to produce 25 mA of 3He+ with a pulse width of ˜80 ms at 360 Hz for acceleration to 10.5 MeV. At this energy, 3He striking water or carbon targets can produce short lived isotopes of 11C, 13N, 15O, and 18F for medical positron emission tomography (PET). A duoplasmatron ion source was chosen originally since it is capable of a sufficient singly charged helium beam with an acceptable gas consumption. Stable long-term operation of the source required a change in the filament material to molybdenum, and a careful understanding of the oxide filament conditioning, operation and geometry. Other improvements, particularly in the electronics, were helpful to increasing the reliability. The source has operated for many months at ˜2.5% duty factor without significant problems and with good stability. We report here the effort that was done to make this source understandable and reliable.

10. Sexual reproduction in Aspergillus flavus sclerotia naturally produced in corn

    USDA-ARS?s Scientific Manuscript database

    Aspergillus flavus is the major producer of carcinogenic aflatoxins worldwide in crops. Populations of A. flavus are characterized by high genetic variation and the source of this variation is likely sexual reproduction. The fungus is heterothallic and laboratory crosses produce ascospore-bearing ...

11. Method and apparatus for assessing material properties of sheet-like materials

    DOEpatents

    Telschow, Kenneth L.; Deason, Vance A.

    2002-01-01

    Apparatus for producing an indication of a material property of a sheet-like material according to the present invention may comprise an excitation source for vibrating the sheet-like material to produce at least one traveling wave therein. A light source configured to produce an object wavefront and a reference wavefront directs the object wavefront toward the sheet-like material to produce a modulated object wavefront. A modulator operatively associated with the reference wavefront modulates the reference wavefront in synchronization with the traveling wave on the sheet-like material to produce a modulated reference wavefront. A sensing medium positioned to receive the modulated object wavefront and the modulated reference wavefront produces an image of the traveling wave in the sheet-like material, the image of the anti-symmetric traveling wave being related to a displacement amplitude of the anti-symmetric traveling wave over a two-dimensional area of the vibrating sheet-like material. A detector detects the image of the traveling wave in the sheet-like material.

12. MIVOC method with temperature controla)

    NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

    Takasugi, W.; Wakaisami, M.; Sasaki, N.; Sakuma, T.; Yamamoto, M.; Kitagawa, A.; Muramatsu, M.

    2010-02-01

    The Heavy Ion Medical Accelerator in Chiba at the National Institute of Radiological Sciences has been used for cancer therapy, physics, and biology experiments since 1994. Its ion sources produce carbon ion for cancer therapy. They also produce various ions (H+-Xe21+) for physics and biology experiments. Most ion species are produced from gases by an 18 GHz electron cyclotron resonance ion source. However, some of ion species is difficult to produce from stable and secure gases. Such ion species are produced by the sputtering method. However, it is necessary to reduce material consumption rate as much as possible in the case of rare and expensive stable isotopes. We have selected "metal ions from volatile compounds method" as a means to solve this problem. We tested a variety of compounds. Since each compound has a suitable temperature to obtain the optimum vapor pressure, we have developed an accurate temperature control system. We have produced ions such as F58e9+, Co9+, Mg5+, Ti10+, Si5+, and Ge12+ with the temperature control.

13. OXA-48 and CTX-M-15 extended-spectrum beta-lactamases in raw milk in Lebanon: epidemic spread of dominant Klebsiella pneumoniae clones.

    PubMed

    Diab, Mohamad; Hamze, Monzer; Bonnet, Richard; Saras, Estelle; Madec, Jean-Yves; Haenni, Marisa

    2017-11-01

    Raw milk has recently been reported as a source of extended-spectrum beta-lactamase (ESBL) and carbapenemase genes. We thus investigated the prevalence of ESBL- and carbapenemase-producing Enterobacteriaceae in raw milk in Lebanon in order to assess the risk of transfer of these bacteria to humans. A high prevalence (30.2 %) of CTX-M-15-producing K. pneumoniae was detected in raw bovine milk. Three main K. pneumoniae clones were identified by PFGE and MLST typing. Southern blot experiments revealed that one of these clones carried the blaCTX-M-15 gene chromosomally. Moreover, one OXA-48-producing K. pneumoniae ST530 and seven CTX-M-15-producing Escherichia coli sharing the same ST were also detected. These findings highlight the spread of dominant CTX-M-15-producing K. pneumoniae clones and OXA-48-producing isolates in the food chain. Milk, which is mostly consumed raw in Lebanon, may be a source of human exposure to ESBLs and carbapenemases.

Fresh Produce-Associated Listeriosis Outbreaks, Sources of Concern, Teachable Moments, and Insights.

PubMed

Garner, Danisha; Kathariou, Sophia

2016-02-01

Foodborne transmission of Listeria monocytogenes was first demonstrated through the investigation of the 1981 Maritime Provinces outbreak involving coleslaw. In the following two decades, most listeriosis outbreaks involved foods of animal origin, e.g., deli meats, hot dogs, and soft cheeses. L. monocytogenes serotype 4b, especially epidemic clones I, II, and Ia, were frequently implicated in these outbreaks. However, since 2008 several outbreaks have been linked to diverse types of fresh produce: sprouts, celery, cantaloupe, stone fruit, and apples. The 2011 cantaloupe-associated outbreak was one of the deadliest foodborne outbreaks in recent U.S. history. This review discusses produce-related outbreaks of listeriosis with a focus on special trends, unusual findings, and potential paradigm shifts. With the exception of sprouts, implicated produce types were novel, and outbreaks were one-time events. Several involved serotype 1/2a, and in the 2011 cantaloupe-associated outbreak, serotype 1/2b was for the first time conclusively linked to a common-source outbreak of invasive listeriosis. Also in this outbreak, for the first time multiple strains were implicated in a common-source outbreak. In 2014, deployment of whole genome sequencing as part of outbreak investigation validated this technique as a pivotal tool for outbreak detection and speedy resolution. In spite of the unusual attributes of produce-related outbreaks, in all but one of the investigated cases (the possible exception being the coleslaw outbreak) contamination was traced to the same sources as those for outbreaks associated with other vehicles (e.g., deli meats), i.e., the processing environment and equipment. The public health impact of farm-level contamination remains uncharacterized. This review highlights knowledge gaps regarding virulence and other potentially unique attributes of produce outbreak strains, the potential for novel fresh produce items to become unexpectedly implicated in outbreaks, and the key role of good control strategies in the processing environment.

Contaminated handwashing sinks as the source of a clonal outbreak of KPC-2-producing Klebsiella oxytoca on a hematology ward.

PubMed

Leitner, Eva; Zarfel, Gernot; Luxner, Josefa; Herzog, Kathrin; Pekard-Amenitsch, Shiva; Hoenigl, Martin; Valentin, Thomas; Feierl, Gebhard; Grisold, Andrea J; Högenauer, Christoph; Sill, Heinz; Krause, Robert; Zollner-Schwetz, Ines

2015-01-01

We investigated sinks as possible sources of a prolonged Klebsiella pneumonia carbapenemase (KPC)-producing Klebsiella oxytoca outbreak. Seven carbapenem-resistant K. oxytoca isolates were identified in sink drains in 4 patient rooms and in the medication room. Investigations for resistance genes and genetic relatedness of patient and environmental isolates revealed that all the isolates harbored the blaKPC-2 and blaTEM-1 genes and were genetically indistinguishable. We describe here a clonal outbreak caused by KPC-2-producing K. oxytoca, and handwashing sinks were a possible reservoir. Copyright © 2015, American Society for Microbiology. All Rights Reserved.

40 CFR 415.475 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... producing nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel fluorobate or nickel nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart AU—Nickel Sulfate, Nickel Chloride, Nickel Nitrate...

40 CFR 415.475 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... producing nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel fluorobate or nickel nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart AU—Nickel Sulfate, Nickel Chloride, Nickel Nitrate...

40 CFR 415.475 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... producing nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel fluorobate or nickel nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart AU—Nickel Sulfate, Nickel Chloride, Nickel Nitrate...

40 CFR 415.475 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... producing nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel fluorobate or nickel nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart AU—Nickel Sulfate, Nickel Chloride, Nickel Nitrate...

40 CFR 415.475 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... producing nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel fluorobate or nickel nitrate must achieve the following new source performance standards (NSPS): Subpart AU—Nickel Sulfate, Nickel Chloride, Nickel Nitrate...

Method and source for producing a high concentration of positively charged molecular hydrogen or deuterium ions

DOEpatents

Ehlers, Kenneth W.; Leung, Ka-Ngo

1988-01-01

A high concentration of positive molecular ions of hydrogen or deuterium gas is extracted from a positive ion source having a short path length of extracted ions, relative to the mean free path of the gas molecules, to minimize the production of other ion species by collision between the positive ions and gas molecules. The ion source has arrays of permanent magnets to produce a multi-cusp magnetic field in regions remote from the plasma grid and the electron emitters, for largely confining the plasma to the space therebetween. The ion source has a chamber which is short in length, relative to its transverse dimensions, and the electron emitters are at an even shorter distance from the plasma grid, which contains one or more extraction apertures.

Experimental demonstration of a compact epithermal neutron source based on a high power laser

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Mirfayzi, S. R.; Alejo, A.; Ahmed, H.; Raspino, D.; Ansell, S.; Wilson, L. A.; Armstrong, C.; Butler, N. M. H.; Clarke, R. J.; Higginson, A.; Kelleher, J.; Murphy, C. D.; Notley, M.; Rusby, D. R.; Schooneveld, E.; Borghesi, M.; McKenna, P.; Rhodes, N. J.; Neely, D.; Brenner, C. M.; Kar, S.

2017-07-01

Epithermal neutrons from pulsed-spallation sources have revolutionised neutron science allowing scientists to acquire new insight into the structure and properties of matter. Here, we demonstrate that laser driven fast (˜MeV) neutrons can be efficiently moderated to epithermal energies with intrinsically short burst durations. In a proof-of-principle experiment using a 100 TW laser, a significant epithermal neutron flux of the order of 105 n/sr/pulse in the energy range of 0.5-300 eV was measured, produced by a compact moderator deployed downstream of the laser-driven fast neutron source. The moderator used in the campaign was specifically designed, by the help of MCNPX simulations, for an efficient and directional moderation of the fast neutron spectrum produced by a laser driven source.

Enhancements to the MCNP6 background source

DOE PAGES

McMath, Garrett E.; McKinney, Gregg W.

2015-10-19

The particle transport code MCNP has been used to produce a background radiation data file on a worldwide grid that can easily be sampled as a source in the code. Location-dependent cosmic showers were modeled by Monte Carlo methods to produce the resulting neutron and photon background flux at 2054 locations around Earth. An improved galactic-cosmic-ray feature was used to model the source term as well as data from multiple sources to model the transport environment through atmosphere, soil, and seawater. A new elevation scaling feature was also added to the code to increase the accuracy of the cosmic neutronmore » background for user locations with off-grid elevations. Furthermore, benchmarking has shown the neutron integral flux values to be within experimental error.« less

Source of polarized ions for the JINR accelerator complex

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Belov, A. S.; Donets, D. E.; Fimushkin, V. V.; Kovalenko, A. D.; Kutuzova, L. V.; Prokofichev, Yu V.; Shutov, V. B.; Turbabin, A. V.; Zubets, V. N.

2017-12-01

The JINR atomic beam type polarized ion source is described. Results of tests of the plasma ionizer with a storage cell and of tuning of high frequency transition units are presented. The source was installed in a linac injector hall of NUCLOTRON in May 2016. The source has been commissioned and used in the NUCLOTRON runs in 2016 and February - March 2017. Polarized and unpolarized deuteron beams were produced as well as polarized protons for acceleration in the NUCLOTRON. Polarized deuteron beam with pulsed current up to 2 mA has been produced. Deuteron beam polarization of 0.6-0.9 of theoretical values for different modes of high frequency transition units operation has been measured with the NUCLOTRON ring internal polarimeter for the accelerated deuteron and proton beams.

Fermentative hydrogen gas production using biosolids pellets as the inoculum source.

PubMed

Kalogo, Youssouf; Bagley, David M

2008-02-01

Biosolids pellets produced from anaerobically digested municipal wastewater sludge by drying to greater than 90% total solids at 110-115 degrees C for at least 75 min, were tested for their suitability as an inoculum source for fermentative hydrogen production. The hydrogen recoveries (mg gaseous H(2) produced as COD/mg added substrate COD) for glucose-fed batch systems were equal, 20.2-21.5%, between biosolids pellets and boiled anaerobic digester sludge as inoculum sources. Hydrogen recoveries from primary sludge were 2.4% and 3.5% using biosolids pellets and boiled sludge, respectively, and only 0.2% and 0.8% for municipal wastewater. Biosolids pellets should be a practical inoculum source for fermentative hydrogen reactors, although the effectiveness will depend on the wastewater treated.

Extended-Spectrum beta (β)-Lactamases and Antibiogram in Enterobacteriaceae from Clinical and Drinking Water Sources from Bahir Dar City, Ethiopia

PubMed Central

Abera, Bayeh; Kibret, Mulugeta; Mulu, Wondemagegn

2016-01-01

Background The spread of Extended-Spectrum beta (β)-Lactamases (ESBL)-producing Enterobacteriaceae has become a serious global problem. ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae vary based on differences in antibiotic use, nature of patients and hospital settings. This study was aimed at determining ESBL and antibiogram in Enterobacteriaceae isolates from clinical and drinking water sources in Bahir Dar City, Northwest Ethiopia. Methods Enterobacteriaceae species were isolated from clinical materials and tap water using standard culturing procedures from September 2013 to March 2015. ESBL-producing-Enterobacteriaceae were detected using double-disk method by E-test Cefotaxim/cefotaxim+ clavulanic acid and Ceftazidime/ceftazidime+ clavulanic acid (BioMerieux SA, France) on Mueller Hinton agar (Oxoid, UK). Results Overall, 274 Enterobacteriaceae were isolated. Of these, 210 (44%) were from patients and 64 (17.1%) were from drinking water. The median age of the patients was 28 years. Urinary tract infection and blood stream infection accounted for 60% and 21.9% of Enterobacteriaceae isolates, respectively. Klebsiella pneumoniae was isolated from 9 (75%) of neonatal sepsis. The overall prevalence of ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae in clinical and drinking water samples were 57.6% and 9.4%, respectively. The predominant ESBL-producers were K. pneumoniae 34 (69.4%) and Escherichia coli 71 (58.2%). Statistically significant associations were noted between ESBL-producing and non- producing Enterobacteriaceae with regard to age of patients, infected body sites and patient settings (P = 0.001). ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae showed higher levels of resistance against chloramphenicol, ciprofloxacin and cotrimoxazole than non-ESBL producers (P = 0.001) Conclusions ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae coupled with high levels of other antimicrobials become a major concern for treatment of patients with invasive infections such as blood stream infections, neonatal sepsis and urinary tract infections. ESBL-producing Enterobacteriaceae were also detected in drinking water sources. PMID:27846254

Selenium content of foods purchased or produced in Ohio.

PubMed

Snook, J T; Kinsey, D; Palmquist, D L; DeLany, J P; Vivian, V M; Moxon, A L

1987-06-01

Approximately 450 samples of about 100 types of foods consumed by rural and urban Ohioans were analyzed for selenium. Meat, dairy products, eggs, and grain products produced in Ohio have considerably lower selenium content than corresponding products produced in high selenium areas, such as South Dakota. Retail Ohio foods with interregional distribution tended to be higher in selenium content than corresponding foods produced in Ohio. Best sources of selenium in Ohio foods commonly consumed were meat and pasta products. Poor sources of selenium were fruits, most vegetables, candies, sweeteners, and alcoholic and nonalcoholic beverages. Establishment of an accurate data base for selenium depends on knowledge of the interregional distribution of foods, the selenium content of foods at their production site, and the selenium content of foods with wide local distribution.

A hollow cathode ion source for production of primary ions for the BNL electron beam ion source.

PubMed

Alessi, James; Beebe, Edward; Carlson, Charles; McCafferty, Daniel; Pikin, Alexander; Ritter, John

2014-02-01

A hollow cathode ion source, based on one developed at Saclay, has been modified significantly and used for several years to produce all primary 1+ ions injected into the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider Electron Beam Ion Source (EBIS) at Brookhaven. Currents of tens to hundreds of microamperes have been produced for 1+ ions of He, C, O, Ne, Si, Ar, Ti, Fe, Cu, Kr, Xe, Ta, Au, and U. The source is very simple, relying on a glow discharge using a noble gas, between anode and a solid cathode containing the desired species. Ions of both the working gas and ionized sputtered cathode material are extracted, and then the desired species is selected using an ExB filter before being transported into the EBIS trap for charge breeding. The source operates pulsed with long life and excellent stability for most species. Reliable ignition of the discharge at low gas pressure is facilitated by the use of capacitive coupling from a simple toy plasma globe. The source design, and operating experience for the various species, is presented.

40 CFR 430.77 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... are produced through the application of the thermo-mechanical process] Pollutant or pollutant property...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Mechanical Pulp Subcategory § 430.77 Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS). (a) The following applies to mechanical...

Femtosecond laser-electron x-ray source

DOEpatents

Hartemann, Frederic V.; Baldis, Hector A.; Barty, Chris P.; Gibson, David J.; Rupp, Bernhard

2004-04-20

A femtosecond laser-electron X-ray source. A high-brightness relativistic electron injector produces an electron beam pulse train. A system accelerates the electron beam pulse train. The femtosecond laser-electron X-ray source includes a high intra-cavity power, mode-locked laser and an x-ray optics system.

40 CFR 426.125 - Standards of performance for new sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS GLASS MANUFACTURING POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Incandescent Lamp Envelope... section, which may be discharged by a new source subject to the provisions of this subpart: (a) Any manufacturing plant which produces incandescent lamp envelopes shall meet the following limitations with regard...

The mechanical design and simulation of a scaled H{sup −} Penning ion source

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Rutter, T., E-mail: theo.rutter@stfc.ac.uk; Faircloth, D.; Turner, D.

2016-02-15

The existing ISIS Penning H{sup −} source is unable to produce the beam parameters required for the front end test stand and so a new, high duty factor, high brightness scaled source is being developed. This paper details first the development of an electrically biased aperture plate for the existing ISIS source and second, the design, simulation, and development of a prototype scaled source.

Talker identification across source mechanisms: experiments with laryngeal and electrolarynx speech.

PubMed

Perrachione, Tyler K; Stepp, Cara E; Hillman, Robert E; Wong, Patrick C M

2014-10-01

The purpose of this study was to determine listeners' ability to learn talker identity from speech produced with an electrolarynx, explore source and filter differentiation in talker identification, and describe acoustic-phonetic changes associated with electrolarynx use. Healthy adult control listeners learned to identify talkers from speech recordings produced using talkers' normal laryngeal vocal source or an electrolarynx. Listeners' abilities to identify talkers from the trained vocal source (Experiment 1) and generalize this knowledge to the untrained source (Experiment 2) were assessed. Acoustic-phonetic measurements of spectral differences between source mechanisms were performed. Additional listeners attempted to match recordings from different source mechanisms to a single talker (Experiment 3). Listeners successfully learned talker identity from electrolarynx speech but less accurately than from laryngeal speech. Listeners were unable to generalize talker identity to the untrained source mechanism. Electrolarynx use resulted in vowels with higher F1 frequencies compared with laryngeal speech. Listeners matched recordings from different sources to a single talker better than chance. Electrolarynx speech, although lacking individual differences in voice quality, nevertheless conveys sufficient indexical information related to the vocal filter and articulation for listeners to identify individual talkers. Psychologically, perception of talker identity arises from a "gestalt" of the vocal source and filter.

A spectrally tunable solid-state source for radiometric, photometric, and colorimetric applications

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Fryc, Irena; Brown, Steven W.; Eppeldauer, George P.; Ohno, Yoshihiro

2004-10-01

A spectrally tunable light source using a large number of LEDs and an integrating sphere has been designed and being developed at NIST. The source is designed to have a capability of producing any spectral distributions mimicking various light sources in the visible region by feedback control of individual LEDs. The output spectral irradiance or radiance of the source will be calibrated by a reference instrument, and the source will be used as a spectroradiometric as well as photometric and colorimetric standard. The use of the tunable source mimicking spectra of display colors, for example, rather than a traditional incandescent standard lamp for calibration of colorimeters, can reduce the spectral mismatch errors of the colorimeter measuring displays significantly. A series of simulations have been conducted to predict the performance of the designed tunable source when used for calibration of colorimeters. The results indicate that the errors can be reduced by an order of magnitude compared with those when the colorimeters are calibrated against Illuminant A. Stray light errors of a spectroradiometer can also be effectively reduced by using the tunable source producing a blackbody spectrum at higher temperature (e.g., 9000 K). The source can also approximate various CIE daylight illuminants and common lamp spectral distributions for other photometric and colorimetric applications.

Talker identification across source mechanisms: Experiments with laryngeal and electrolarynx speech

PubMed Central

Perrachione, Tyler K.; Stepp, Cara E.; Hillman, Robert E.; Wong, Patrick C.M.

2015-01-01

Purpose To determine listeners' ability to learn talker identity from speech produced with an electrolarynx, explore source and filter differentiation in talker identification, and describe acoustic-phonetic changes associated with electrolarynx use. Method Healthy adult control listeners learned to identify talkers from speech recordings produced using talkers' normal laryngeal vocal source or an electrolarynx. Listeners' abilities to identify talkers from the trained vocal source (Experiment 1) and generalize this knowledge to the untrained source (Experiment 2) were assessed. Acoustic-phonetic measurements of spectral differences between source mechanisms were performed. Additional listeners attempted to match recordings from different source mechanisms to a single talker (Experiment 3). Results Listeners successfully learned talker identity from electrolarynx speech, but less accurately than from laryngeal speech. Listeners were unable to generalize talker identity to the untrained source mechanism. Electrolarynx use resulted in vowels with higher F1 frequencies compared to laryngeal speech. Listeners matched recordings from different sources to a single talker better than chance. Conclusions Electrolarynx speech, though lacking individual differences in voice quality, nevertheless conveys sufficient indexical information related to the vocal filter and articulation for listeners to identify individual talkers. Psychologically, perception of talker identity arises from a “gestalt” of the vocal source and filter. PMID:24801962

Development of a Small Thermoelectric Generators Prototype for Energy Harvesting from Low Temperature Waste Heat at Industrial Plant.

PubMed

Chiarotti, Ugo; Moroli, Valerio; Menchetti, Fernando; Piancaldini, Roberto; Bianco, Loris; Viotto, Alberto; Baracchini, Giulia; Gaspardo, Daniele; Nazzi, Fabio; Curti, Maurizio; Gabriele, Massimiliano

2017-03-01

A 39-W thermoelectric generator prototype has been realized and then installed in industrial plant for on-line trials. The prototype was developed as an energy harvesting demonstrator using low temperature cooling water waste heat as energy source. The objective of the research program is to measure the actual performances of this kind of device working with industrial water below 90 °C, as hot source, and fresh water at a temperature of about 15 °C, as cold sink. The article shows the first results of the research program. It was verified, under the tested operative conditions, that the produced electric power exceeds the energy required to pump the water from the hot source and cold sink to the thermoelectric generator unit if they are located at a distance not exceeding 50 m and the electric energy conversion efficiency is 0.33%. It was calculated that increasing the distance of the hot source and cold sink to the thermoelectric generator unit to 100 m the produced electric energy equals the energy required for water pumping, while reducing the distance of the hot source and cold sink to zero meters the developed unit produces an electric energy conversion efficiency of 0.61%.

Isolation and Characterization of PHA-Producing Bacteria from Propylene Oxide Saponification Wastewater Residual Sludge.

PubMed

Li, Ruirui; Gu, Pengfei; Fan, Xiangyu; Shen, Junyu; Wu, Yulian; Huang, Lixuan; Li, Qiang

2018-03-21

A polyhydroxyalkanoate (PHA)-producing strain was isolated from propylene oxide (PO) saponification wastewater activated sludge and was identified as Brevundimonas vesicularis UJN1 through 16S rDNA sequencing and Biolog microbiological identification. Single-factor and response surface methodology experiments were used to optimize the culture medium and conditions. The optimal C/N ratio was 100/1.04, and the optimal carbon and nitrogen sources were sucrose (10 g/L) and NH 4 Cl (0.104 g/L) respectively. The optimal culture conditions consisted of initial pH of 6.7 and an incubation temperature of 33.4 °C for 48 h, with 15% inoculum and 100 mL medium at an agitation rate of 180 rpm. The PHA concentration reached 34.1% of the cell dry weight and increased three times compared with that before optimization. The only report of PHA-producing bacteria by Brevundimonas vesicularis showed that the conversion rate of PHAs using glucose as the optimal carbon source was 1.67%. In our research, the conversion rate of PHAs with sucrose as the optimal carbon source was 3.05%, and PHA production using sucrose as the carbon source was much cheaper than that using glucose as the carbon source.

Modeling of negative ion transport in a plasma source

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Riz, David; Departement de Recherches sur la Fusion Controelee CE Cadarache, 13108 St Paul lez Durance; Pamela, Jerome

1998-08-20

A code called NIETZSCHE has been developed to simulate the negative ion transport in a plasma source, from their birth place to the extraction holes. The ion trajectory is calculated by numerically solving the 3-D motion equation, while the atomic processes of destruction, of elastic collision H{sup -}/H{sup +} and of charge exchange H{sup -}/H{sup 0} are handled at each time step by a Monte-Carlo procedure. This code can be used to calculate the extraction probability of a negative ion produced at any location inside the source. Calculations performed with NIETZSCHE have allowed to explain, either quantitatively or qualitatively, severalmore » phenomena observed in negative ion sources, such as the isotopic H{sup -}/D{sup -} effect, and the influence of the plasma grid bias or of the magnetic filter on the negative ion extraction. The code has also shown that in the type of sources contemplated for ITER, which operate at large arc power densities (>1 W cm{sup -3}), negative ions can reach the extraction region provided if they are produced at a distance lower than 2 cm from the plasma grid in the case of 'volume production' (dissociative attachment processes), or if they are produced at the plasma grid surface, in the vicinity of the extraction holes.« less

Modeling of negative ion transport in a plasma source (invited)

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Riz, David; Paméla, Jérôme

1998-02-01

A code called NIETZSCHE has been developed to simulate the negative ion transport in a plasma source, from their birth place to the extraction holes. The H-/D- trajectory is calculated by numerically solving the 3D motion equation, while the atomic processes of destruction, of elastic collision with H+/D+ and of charge exchange with H0/D0 are handled at each time step by a Monte Carlo procedure. This code can be used to calculate the extraction probability of a negative ion produced at any location inside the source. Calculations performed with NIETZSCHE have been allowed to explain, either quantitatively or qualitatively, several phenomena observed in negative ion sources, such as the isotopic H-/D- effect, and the influence of the plasma grid bias or of the magnetic filter on the negative ion extraction. The code has also shown that, in the type of sources contemplated for ITER, which operate at large arc power densities (>1 W cm-3), negative ions can reach the extraction region provided they are produced at a distance lower than 2 cm from the plasma grid in the case of volume production (dissociative attachment processes), or if they are produced at the plasma grid surface, in the vicinity of the extraction holes.

Modeling of negative ion transport in a plasma source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Riz, David; Paméla, Jérôme

1998-08-01

A code called NIETZSCHE has been developed to simulate the negative ion transport in a plasma source, from their birth place to the extraction holes. The ion trajectory is calculated by numerically solving the 3-D motion equation, while the atomic processes of destruction, of elastic collision H-/H+ and of charge exchange H-/H0 are handled at each time step by a Monte-Carlo procedure. This code can be used to calculate the extraction probability of a negative ion produced at any location inside the source. Calculations performed with NIETZSCHE have allowed to explain, either quantitatively or qualitatively, several phenomena observed in negative ion sources, such as the isotopic H-/D- effect, and the influence of the plasma grid bias or of the magnetic filter on the negative ion extraction. The code has also shown that in the type of sources contemplated for ITER, which operate at large arc power densities (>1 W cm-3), negative ions can reach the extraction region provided if they are produced at a distance lower than 2 cm from the plasma grid in the case of «volume production» (dissociative attachment processes), or if they are produced at the plasma grid surface, in the vicinity of the extraction holes.

EMISSIONS OF ORGANIC AIR TOXICS FROM OPEN ...

EPA Pesticide Factsheets

A detailed literature search was performed to collect and collate available data reporting emissions of toxic organic substances into the air from open burning sources. Availability of data varied according to the source and the class of air toxics of interest. Volatile organic compound (VOC) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon (PAH) data were available for many of the sources. Data on semivolatile organic compounds (SVOCs) that are not PAHs were available for several sources. Carbonyl and polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins and polychlorinated dibenzofuran (PCDD/F) data were available for only a few sources. There were several sources for which no emissions data were available at all. Several observations were made including: 1) Biomass open burning sources typically emitted less VOCs than open burning sources with anthropogenic fuels on a mass emitted per mass burned basis, particularly those where polymers were concerned; 2) Biomass open burning sources typically emitted less SVOCs and PAHs than anthropogenic sources on a mass emitted per mass burned basis. Burning pools of crude oil and diesel fuel produced significant amounts of PAHs relative to other types of open burning. PAH emissions were highest when combustion of polymers was taking place; and 3) Based on very limited data, biomass open burning sources typically produced higher levels of carbonyls than anthropogenic sources on a mass emitted per mass burned basis, probably due to oxygenated structures r

Origin of acoustic emission produced during single point machining

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Heiple, C. R.; Carpenter, S. H.; Armentrout, D. L.

1991-05-01

Acoustic emission was monitored during single point, continuous machining of 4340 steel and Ti-6Al-4V as a function of heat treatment. Acoustic emission produced during tensile and compressive deformation of these alloys has been previously characterized as a function of heat treatment. Heat treatments which increase the strength of 4340 steel increase the amount of acoustic emission produced during deformation, while heat treatments which increase the strength of Ti-6Al-4V decrease the amount of acoustic emission produced during deformation. If chip deformation were the primary source of acoustic emission during single point machining, then opposite trends in the level of acoustic emission produced during machining as a function of material strength would be expected for these two alloys. Trends in rms acoustic emission level with increasing strength were similar for both alloys, demonstrating that chip deformation is not a major source of acoustic emission in single point machining. Acoustic emission has also been monitored as a function of machining parameters on 6061-T6 aluminum, 304 stainless steel, 17-4PH stainless steel, lead, and teflon. The data suggest that sliding friction between the nose and/or flank of the tool and the newly machined surface is the primary source of acoustic emission. Changes in acoustic emission with tool wear were strongly material dependent.

Prebiotic chemistry: chemical evolution of organics on the primitive Earth under simulated prebiotic conditions.

PubMed

Dondi, Daniele; Merli, Daniele; Pretali, Luca; Fagnoni, Maurizio; Albini, Angelo; Serpone, Nick

2007-11-01

A series of prebiotic mixtures of simple molecules, sources of C, H, N, and O, were examined under conditions that may have prevailed during the Hadean eon (4.6-3.8 billion years), namely an oxygen-free atmosphere and a significant UV radiation flux over a large wavelength range due to the absence of an ozone layer. Mixtures contained a C source (methanol, acetone or other ketones), a N source (ammonia or methylamine), and an O source (water) at various molar ratios of C : H : N : O. When subjected to UV light or heated for periods of 7 to 45 days under an argon atmosphere, they yielded a narrow product distribution of a few principal compounds. Different initial conditions produced different distributions. The nature of the products was ascertained by gas chromatographic-mass spectral analysis (GC-MS). UVC irradiation of an aqueous methanol-ammonia-water prebiotic mixture for 14 days under low UV dose (6 x 10(-2) Einstein) produced methylisourea, hexamethylenetetramine (HMT), methyl-HMT and hydroxy-HMT, whereas under high UV dose (45 days; 1.9 x 10(-1) Einstein) yielded only HMT. By contrast, the prebiotic mixture composed of acetone-ammonia-water produced five principal species with acetamide as the major component; thermally the same mixture produced a different product distribution of four principal species. UVC irradiation of the CH(3)CN-NH(3)-H(2)O prebiotic mixture for 7 days gave mostly trimethyl-s-triazine, whereas in the presence of two metal oxides (TiO(2) or Fe(2)O(3)) also produced some HMT; the thermal process yielded only acetamide.

Treatment in the healing of burns with a cold plasma source

PubMed Central

Betancourt-Ángeles, Mario; Peña-Eguiluz, Rosendo; López-Callejas, Régulo; Domínguez-Cadena, Nicasio Alberto; Mercado-Cabrera, Antonio; Muñoz-Infante, Jorge; Rodríguez-Méndez, Benjamín Gonzalo; Valencia-Alvarado, Raúl; Moreno-Tapia, José Alberto

2017-01-01

A cold plasma produced with helium gas was applied to two second-degree burns produced with boiling oil. These burns were located on a thigh and a shin of a 59-years-old male person. After the first treatment as benefit the patient neither presented itching nor pain and, after the second treatment, the patient presented new tissue. This result opens the possibilities of the application of a cold plasma source to health burns. PMID:29348977

Traveling-wave laser-produced-plasma energy source for photoionization laser pumping and lasers incorporating said

DOEpatents

Sher, Mark H.; Macklin, John J.; Harris, Stephen E.

1989-09-26

A traveling-wave, laser-produced-plasma, energy source used to obtain single-pass gain saturation of a photoionization pumped laser. A cylindrical lens is used to focus a pump laser beam to a long line on a target. Grooves are cut in the target to present a surface near normal to the incident beam and to reduce the area, and hence increase the intensity and efficiency, of plasma formation.

Endogenous production, exogenous delivery and impact-shock synthesis of organic molecules - An inventory for the origins of life

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Chyba, Christopher; Sagan, Carl

1992-01-01

The contribution of organic-rich comets, carbonaceous asteroids, and interplanetary dust particles and of impact shock-synthesized organics in the atmosphere to the origin of life on earth is studied and quantitatively compared with the principal non-heavy-bombardment sources of prebiotic organics. The results suggest that heavy bombardment before 3.5 Gyr ago either produced or delivered quantities of organics comparable to those produced by other energy sources.

10 CFR 35.11 - License required.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-01-01

... material or discrete sources of radium-226 for which a specific medical use license is required in... persons, who possess and use accelerator-produced radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226...

Pure sources and efficient detectors for optical quantum information processing

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Zielnicki, Kevin

Over the last sixty years, classical information theory has revolutionized the understanding of the nature of information, and how it can be quantified and manipulated. Quantum information processing extends these lessons to quantum systems, where the properties of intrinsic uncertainty and entanglement fundamentally defy classical explanation. This growing field has many potential applications, including computing, cryptography, communication, and metrology. As inherently mobile quantum particles, photons are likely to play an important role in any mature large-scale quantum information processing system. However, the available methods for producing and detecting complex multi-photon states place practical limits on the feasibility of sophisticated optical quantum information processing experiments. In a typical quantum information protocol, a source first produces an interesting or useful quantum state (or set of states), perhaps involving superposition or entanglement. Then, some manipulations are performed on this state, perhaps involving quantum logic gates which further manipulate or entangle the intial state. Finally, the state must be detected, obtaining some desired measurement result, e.g., for secure communication or computationally efficient factoring. The work presented here concerns the first and last stages of this process as they relate to photons: sources and detectors. Our work on sources is based on the need for optimized non-classical states of light delivered at high rates, particularly of single photons in a pure quantum state. We seek to better understand the properties of spontaneous parameteric downconversion (SPDC) sources of photon pairs, and in doing so, produce such an optimized source. We report an SPDC source which produces pure heralded single photons with little or no spectral filtering, allowing a significant rate enhancement. Our work on detectors is based on the need to reliably measure single-photon states. We have focused on optimizing the detection efficiency of visible light photon counters (VLPCs), a single-photon detection technology that is also capable of resolving photon number states. We report a record-breaking quantum efficiency of 91 +/- 3% observed with our detection system. Both sources and detectors are independently interesting physical systems worthy of study, but together they promise to enable entire new classes and applications of information based on quantum mechanics.

RELATIVISTIC THOMSON SCATTERING EXPERIMENT AT BNL - STATUS REPORT.

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

POGORELSKY,I.V.; BEN ZVI,I.; KUSCHE,K.

2001-12-03

1.7 x 10{sup 8} x-ray photons per 3.5 ps pulse have been produced in Thomson scattering by focusing CO{sub 2} laser pulse on counter-propagating relativistic electron beam. We explore a possibility of further enhancement of process efficiency by propagating both beams in a plasma capillary. Conventional synchrotron light sources based on using giga-electron-volt electron synchrotron accelerators and magnetic wigglers generate x-ray radiation for versatile application in multi-disciplinary research. An intense laser beam causes relativistic electron oscillations similar to a wiggler. However, because the laser wavelength is thousand times shorter than a wiggler period, very moderate electron energy is needed tomore » produce hard x-rays via Thomson scattering. This allows using relatively compact mega-electron-volt linear accelerators instead of giga-electron-volt synchrotrons. Another important advantage of Thomson sources is a possibility to generate femtosecond x-ray pulses whereas conventional synchrotron sources have typically {approx}300 ps pulse duration. This promises to revolutionize x-ray research in chemistry, physics, and biology expanding it to ultra-fast processes. Thomson sources do not compete in repetition rate and average intensity with conventional light sources that operate at the megahertz frequency. However, Thomson sources have a potential to produce much higher photon numbers per pulse. This may allow developing a single shot exposure important for structural analysis of live biological objects. The BNL Thomson source is a user's experiment conducted at the Accelerator Test Facility since 1998 by an international collaboration in High Energy Physics. Since inception, the ATF source produces the record peak x-ray yield, intensity and brightness among other similar proof-of-principle demonstrations attempted elsewhere. Note that this result is achieved with a moderate laser power of 15 GW. A key to this achievement is in choosing right apparatus and efficient interaction geometry. We use a CO{sub 2} laser that delivers 10 times more photons per unit energy than the 1-{micro}m laser, a high-brightness linac, and the most energy-efficient backscattering interaction geometry. The purpose of this report is to give an update on new results obtained during this year and our near-term plans.« less

Defense RDT&E Online System (DROLS) Handbook

DTIC Science & Technology

1993-07-01

of the descriptor TROPICAL DISEASES hierarchically will produce the same results as a cumulated search of the following terms: CHOLERA DENGUE ...Header List The Source header List is a two volume listing of all source names arranged in alphabetical order. Each en ~try consists of: Source Name...BB Belgium ................................................................ BE Belize

77 FR 11914 - Approval and Promulgation of Air Quality Implementation Plans; Vermont; Regional Haze

Federal Register 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

2012-02-28

... United States. Through source apportionment modeling, MANE-VU assisted States in determining their... Contributions of Pollutants to Visibility Impairments 2. Procedure for Identifying Sources To Evaluate for... is visibility impairment that is produced by a multitude of sources and activities which are located...

TEMPORAL AND SPATIAL VARIABILITY OF FECAL INDICATOR BACTERIA: IMPLICATIONS FOR THE APPLICATION OF MST METHODOLOGIES TO DIFFERENTIATE SOURCES OF FECAL CONTAMINATION

EPA Science Inventory

Temporal variability in the gastrointestinal flora of animals impacting water resources with fecal material can be one of the factors producing low source identification rates when applying microbial source tracking (MST) methods. Understanding how bacterial species and genotype...

THERMAL NEUTRON INTENSITIES IN SOILS IRRADIATED BY FAST NEUTRONS FROM POINT SOURCES. (R825549C054)

EPA Science Inventory

Thermal-neutron fluences in soil are reported for selected fast-neutron sources, selected soil types, and selected irradiation geometries. Sources include 14 MeV neutrons from accelerators, neutrons from spontaneously fissioning ²⁵²Cf, and neutrons produced from alp...

40 CFR 430.125 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS (CONTINUED) THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Tissue, Filter... where filter and non-woven papers are produced from purchased pulp] Pollutant or pollutant property Kg...

40 CFR 430.125 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS (CONTINUED) THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Tissue, Filter... where filter and non-woven papers are produced from purchased pulp] Pollutant or pollutant property Kg...

40 CFR 430.125 - New source performance standards (NSPS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS (CONTINUED) THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Tissue, Filter... where filter and non-woven papers are produced from purchased pulp] Pollutant or pollutant property Kg...

10 CFR 35.10 - Implementation.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-01-01

... radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226 for which a specific medical use license is required by... accelerator-produced radioactive material or discrete sources of radium-226 for which a specific medical use...

Production of lipopeptide biosurfactants by Bacillus atrophaeus 5-2a and their potential use in microbial enhanced oil recovery.

PubMed

Zhang, Junhui; Xue, Quanhong; Gao, Hui; Lai, Hangxian; Wang, Ping

2016-10-03

Lipopeptides are known as promising microbial surfactants and have been successfully used in enhancing oil recovery in extreme environmental conditions. A biosurfactant-producing strain, Bacillus atrophaeus 5-2a, was recently isolated from an oil-contaminated soil in the Ansai oilfield, Northwest China. In this study, we evaluated the crude oil removal efficiency of lipopeptide biosurfactants produced by B. atrophaeus 5-2a and their feasibility for use in microbial enhanced oil recovery. The production of biosurfactants by B. atrophaeus 5-2a was tested in culture media containing eight carbon sources and nitrogen sources. The production of a crude biosurfactant was 0.77 g L -1 and its surface tension was 26.52 ± 0.057 mN m -1 in a basal medium containing brown sugar (carbon source) and urea (nitrogen source). The biosurfactants produced by the strain 5-2a demonstrated excellent oil spreading activity and created a stable emulsion with paraffin oil. The stability of the biosurfactants was assessed under a wide range of environmental conditions, including temperature (up to 120 °C), pH (2-13), and salinity (0-50 %, w/v). The biosurfactants were found to retain surface-active properties under the extreme conditions. Additionally, the biosurfactants were successful in a test to simulate microbial enhanced oil recovery, removing 90.0 and 93.9 % of crude oil adsorbed on sand and filter paper, respectively. Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy showed that the biosurfactants were a mixture of lipopeptides, which are powerful biosurfactants commonly produced by Bacillus species. The study highlights the usefulness of optimization of carbon and nitrogen sources and their effects on the biosurfactants production and further emphasizes on the potential of lipopeptide biosurfactants produced by B. atrophaeus 5-2a for crude oil removal. The favorable properties of the lipopeptide biosurfactants make them good candidates for application in the bioremediation of oil-contaminated sites and microbial enhanced oil recovery process.

Locating arbitrarily time-dependent sound sources in three dimensional space in real time.

PubMed

Wu, Sean F; Zhu, Na

2010-08-01

This paper presents a method for locating arbitrarily time-dependent acoustic sources in a free field in real time by using only four microphones. This method is capable of handling a wide variety of acoustic signals, including broadband, narrowband, impulsive, and continuous sound over the entire audible frequency range, produced by multiple sources in three dimensional (3D) space. Locations of acoustic sources are indicated by the Cartesian coordinates. The underlying principle of this method is a hybrid approach that consists of modeling of acoustic radiation from a point source in a free field, triangulation, and de-noising to enhance the signal to noise ratio (SNR). Numerical simulations are conducted to study the impacts of SNR, microphone spacing, source distance and frequency on spatial resolution and accuracy of source localizations. Based on these results, a simple device that consists of four microphones mounted on three mutually orthogonal axes at an optimal distance, a four-channel signal conditioner, and a camera is fabricated. Experiments are conducted in different environments to assess its effectiveness in locating sources that produce arbitrarily time-dependent acoustic signals, regardless whether a sound source is stationary or moves in space, even toward behind measurement microphones. Practical limitations on this method are discussed.

Inner Source Pickup Ions Observed by Ulysses

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Gloeckler, G.

2016-12-01

The existence of an inner source of pickup ions close to the Sun was proposed in order to explain the unexpected discovery of C+ in the high-speed polar solar wind. Here I report on detailed analyses of the composition and the radial and latitudinal variations of inner source pickup ions measured with the Solar Wind Ion Composition Spectrometer on Ulysses from 1991 to 1998, approaching and during solar minimum. We find that the C+ intensity drops off with radial distance R as R-1.53, peaks at mid latitudes and drops to its lowest value in the ecliptic. Not only was C+ observed, but also N+, O+, Ne+, Na+, Mg+, Ar+, S+, K+, CH+, NH+, OH+, H2O+, H3O+, MgH+, HCN+, C2H4+, SO+ and many other singly-charged heavy ions and molecular ions. The measured velocity distributions of inner source pickup C+ and O+ indicate that these inner source pickup ions are most likely produced by charge exchange, photoionization and electron impact ionization of neutrals close to the Sun (within 10 to 30 solar radii). Possible causes for the unexpected latitudinal variations and the neutral source(s) producing the inner source pickup ions as well as plausible production mechanisms for inner source pickup ions will be discussed.

Optimal source coding, removable noise elimination, and natural coordinate system construction for general vector sources using replicator neural networks

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Hecht-Nielsen, Robert

1997-04-01

A new universal one-chart smooth manifold model for vector information sources is introduced. Natural coordinates (a particular type of chart) for such data manifolds are then defined. Uniformly quantized natural coordinates form an optimal vector quantization code for a general vector source. Replicator neural networks (a specialized type of multilayer perceptron with three hidden layers) are the introduced. As properly configured examples of replicator networks approach minimum mean squared error (e.g., via training and architecture adjustment using randomly chosen vectors from the source), these networks automatically develop a mapping which, in the limit, produces natural coordinates for arbitrary source vectors. The new concept of removable noise (a noise model applicable to a wide variety of real-world noise processes) is then discussed. Replicator neural networks, when configured to approach minimum mean squared reconstruction error (e.g., via training and architecture adjustment on randomly chosen examples from a vector source, each with randomly chosen additive removable noise contamination), in the limit eliminate removable noise and produce natural coordinates for the data vector portions of the noise-corrupted source vectors. Consideration regarding selection of the dimension of a data manifold source model and the training/configuration of replicator neural networks are discussed.

Fuelwood production and sources in Wisconsin, 1981.

Treesearch

James E. Blyth; E. Michael Bailey; W. Brad Smith

1984-01-01

Discusses and analyzes the 1981 Wisconsin fuelwood production from roundwood and primary wood-using mill residue. Analyzes production by geographic area, type of producer, species, landowner class, type of land, and tree source.

Emittance Growth in the DARHT-II Linear Induction Accelerator

DOE PAGES

Ekdahl, Carl; Carlson, Carl A.; Frayer, Daniel K.; ...

2017-10-03

The dual-axis radiographic hydrodynamic test (DARHT) facility uses bremsstrahlung radiation source spots produced by the focused electron beams from two linear induction accelerators (LIAs) to radiograph large hydrodynamic experiments driven by high explosives. Radiographic resolution is determined by the size of the source spot, and beam emittance is the ultimate limitation to spot size. On the DARHT-II LIA, we measure an emittance higher than predicted by theoretical simulations, and even though this accelerator produces submillimeter source spots, we are exploring ways to improve the emittance. Some of the possible causes for the discrepancy have been investigated using particle-in-cell codes. Finally,more » the simulations establish that the most likely source of emittance growth is a mismatch of the beam to the magnetic transport, which can cause beam halo.« less

Emittance Growth in the DARHT-II Linear Induction Accelerator

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Ekdahl, Carl; Carlson, Carl A.; Frayer, Daniel K.

The dual-axis radiographic hydrodynamic test (DARHT) facility uses bremsstrahlung radiation source spots produced by the focused electron beams from two linear induction accelerators (LIAs) to radiograph large hydrodynamic experiments driven by high explosives. Radiographic resolution is determined by the size of the source spot, and beam emittance is the ultimate limitation to spot size. On the DARHT-II LIA, we measure an emittance higher than predicted by theoretical simulations, and even though this accelerator produces submillimeter source spots, we are exploring ways to improve the emittance. Some of the possible causes for the discrepancy have been investigated using particle-in-cell codes. Finally,more » the simulations establish that the most likely source of emittance growth is a mismatch of the beam to the magnetic transport, which can cause beam halo.« less

Recycling produced water for algal cultivation for biofuels

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Neal, Justin N.; Sullivan, Enid J.; Dean, Cynthia A.

2012-08-09

Algal growth demands a continuous source of water of appropriate salinity and nutritional content. Fresh water sources are scarce in the deserts of the Southwestern United States, hence, salt water algae species are being investigated as a renewable biofuel source. The use of produced water from oil wells (PW) could offset the demand for fresh water in cultivation. Produced water can contain various concentrations of dissolved solids, metals and organic contaminants and often requires treatment beyond oil/water separation to make it suitable for algae cultivation. The produced water used in this study was taken from an oil well in Jal,more » New Mexico. An F/2-Si (minus silica) growth media commonly used to cultivate Nannochloropsis salina 1776 (NS 1776) was prepared using the produced water (F/2-Si PW) taking into account the metals and salts already present in the water. NS 1776 was seeded into a bioreactor containing 5L of the (F/2-Si PW) media. After eleven days the optical density at 750 nm (an indicator of algal growth) increased from 0 to 2.52. These results indicate algae are able to grow, though inhibited when compared with non-PW media, in the complex chemical conditions found in produced water. Savings from using nutrients present in the PW, such as P, K, and HCO{sub 3}{sup -}, results in a 44.38% cost savings over fresh water to mix the F/2-Si media.« less

Comparison on welding mode characteristics of arc heat source for heat input control in hybrid welding of aluminum alloy

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Song, Moo-Keun; Kim, Jong-Do; Oh, Jae-Hwan

2015-03-01

Presently in shipbuilding, transportation and aerospace industries, the potential to apply welding using laser and laser-arc hybrid heat sources is widely under research. This study has the purpose of comparing the weldability depending on the arc mode by varying the welding modes of arc heat sources in applying laser-arc hybrid welding to aluminum alloy and of implementing efficient hybrid welding while controlling heat input. In the experimental study, we found that hybrid welding using CMT mode produced deeper penetration and sounder bead surface than those characteristics produced during only laser welding, with less heat input compared to that required in pulsed arc mode.

Amorphous metal formulations and structured coatings for corrosion and wear resistance

DOEpatents

Farmer, Joseph C.

2014-07-15

A system for coating a surface comprising providing a source of amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements and applying the amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements to the surface by a spray. Also a coating comprising a composite material made of amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements. An apparatus for producing a corrosion-resistant amorphous-metal coating on a structure comprises a deposition chamber, a deposition source in the deposition chamber that produces a deposition spray, the deposition source containing a composite material made of amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements, and a system that directs the deposition spray onto the structure.

Amorphous metal formulations and structured coatings for corrosion and wear resistance

DOEpatents

Farmer, Joseph C [Tracy, CA

2011-12-13

A system for coating a surface comprising providing a source of amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements and applying the amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements to the surface by a spray. Also a coating comprising a composite material made of amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements. An apparatus for producing a corrosion-resistant amorphous-metal coating on a structure comprises a deposition chamber, a deposition source in the deposition chamber that produces a deposition spray, the deposition source containing a composite material made of amorphous metal that contains more than 11 elements, and a system that directs the deposition spray onto the structure.

Samarium-145 and its use as a radiation source

DOEpatents

Fairchild, Ralph G.; Laster, Brenda H.; Packer, Samuel

1989-09-05

The present invention covers a new radiation source, samarium-145, with radiation energies slightly above those of I-125 and a half-life of 340 days. The samarium-145 source is produced by neutron irradiation of SM-144. This new source is useful as the implanted radiation source in photon activation therapy of malignant tumors to activate the stable I-127 contained in the IdUrd accumulated in the tumor, causing radiation sensitization and Auger cascades that irreperably damage the tumor cells. This new source is also useful as a brachytherapy source.

Samarium-145 and its use as a radiation source

DOEpatents

Fairchild, Ralph G.; Laster, Brenda H.; Packer, Samuel

1989-01-01

The present invention covers a new radiation source, samarium-145, with radiation energies slightly above those of I-125 and a half-life of 340 days. The samarium-145 source is produced by neutron irradiation of SM-144. This new source is useful as the implanted radiation source in photon activation therapy of malignant tumors to activate the stable I-127 contained in the IdUrd accumulated in the tumor, causing radiation sensitization and Auger cascades that irreperably damage the tumor cells. This new source is also useful as a brachytherapy source.

Producing multicharged fullerene ion beam extracted from the second stage of tandem-type ECRIS.

PubMed

Nagaya, Tomoki; Nishiokada, Takuya; Hagino, Shogo; Uchida, Takashi; Muramatsu, Masayuki; Otsuka, Takuro; Sato, Fuminobu; Kitagawa, Atsushi; Kato, Yushi; Yoshida, Yoshikazu

2016-02-01

We have been constructing the tandem-type electron cyclotron resonance ion source (ECRIS). Two ion sources of the tandem-type ECRIS are possible to generate plasma individually, and they also confined individual ion species by each different plasma parameter. Hence, it is considered to be suitable for new materials production. As the first step, we try to produce and extract multicharged C60 ions by supplying pure C60 vapor in the second stage plasma because our main target is producing the endohedral fullerenes. We developed a new evaporator to supply fullerene vapor, and we succeeded in observation about multicharged C60 ion beam in tandem-type ECRIS for the first time.

Fermi Gamma-Ray Space Telescope: Highlights of the GeV Sky

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Thomspon, D. J.

2011-01-01

Because high-energy gamma rays can be produced by processes that also produce neutrinos. the gamma-ray survey of the sky by the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope offers a view of potenl ial targds for neutrino observations. Gamma-ray bursts. active galactic nuclei, and supernova remnants are all sites where hadronic, neutrino-producing interactions are plausible. Pulsars, pulsar wind nebulae, and binary sources are all phenomena that reveal leptonic particle acceleration through their gamma-ray emission. \\Vhile important to gamma-ray astrophysics. such sources are of less interest to neutrino studies. This talk will present a broad overview of the constantly changing sky seen with the Large Area Telescope (LAT) on the Fermi spacecraft.

X-ray shearing interferometer

DOEpatents

Koch, Jeffrey A [Livermore, CA

2003-07-08

An x-ray interferometer for analyzing high density plasmas and optically opaque materials includes a point-like x-ray source for providing a broadband x-ray source. The x-rays are directed through a target material and then are reflected by a high-quality ellipsoidally-bent imaging crystal to a diffraction grating disposed at 1.times. magnification. A spherically-bent imaging crystal is employed when the x-rays that are incident on the crystal surface are normal to that surface. The diffraction grating produces multiple beams which interfere with one another to produce an interference pattern which contains information about the target. A detector is disposed at the position of the image of the target produced by the interfering beams.

Publisher Source Directory: A List of Where to Buy or Rent Instructional Materials and Other Educational Aids, Devices, and Media Including More Than 1,600 Publishers and Producers in the U.S., Canada, and Europe. Revised Edition.

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

National Center on Educational Media and Materials for the Handicapped, Columbus, OH.

Listed are more than 1,600 publishers, producers, and distributors of educational materials for use with the handicapped. Entries are presented in alphabetical order according to name. Beneath each source's name and address are code numbers which correspond to the type of materials each publisher's catalog lists. Provided is a list of the codes…

Multi-cathode metal vapor arc ion source

DOEpatents

Brown, Ian G.; MacGill, Robert A.

1988-01-01

An ion generating apparatus utilizing a vacuum chamber, a cathode and an anode in the chamber. A source of electrical power produces an arc or discharge between the cathode and anode. The arc is sufficient to vaporize a portion of the cathode to form a plasma. The plasma is directed to an extractor which separates the electrons from the plasma, and accelerates the ions to produce an ion beam. One embodiment of the appaatus utilizes a multi-cathode arrangement for interaction with the anode.

Male-specific coliphages for source tracking fecal contamination in irrigation waters and prevalence of Shiga toxigenic Escherichia coli in a major produce production region of central coast of California

USDA-ARS?s Scientific Manuscript database

Determining the environmental sources for Shiga toxigenic Escherichia coli is of paramount importance. Since dairy or feedlot cattle are likely sources for this pathogen, determining the sources of fecal contamination may provide supplemental data to traditional trace-back studies from fork to farm....

Calibration of a DSSSD detector with radioactive sources

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Guadilla, V.; Taín, J. L.; Agramunt, J.; Algora, A.; Domingo-Pardo, C.; Rubio, B.

2013-06-01

The energy calibration of a DSSSD is carried out with the spectra produced by a 207Bi conversion electron source, a 137Cs gamma source and a 239Pu/241Am/244Cm triple alpha source, as well as employing a precision pulse generator in the whole dynamic range. Multiplicity and coincidence of signals in different strips for the same event are also studied.

High brilliance negative ion and neutral beam source

DOEpatents

Compton, Robert N.

1991-01-01

A high brilliance mass selected (Z-selected) negative ion and neutral beam source having good energy resolution. The source is based upon laser resonance ionization of atoms or molecules in a small gaseous medium followed by charge exchange through an alkali oven. The source is capable of producing microampere beams of an extremely wide variety of negative ions, and milliampere beams when operated in the pulsed mode.

Emotion, directed forgetting, and source memory.

PubMed

Otani, Hajime; Libkuman, Terry M; Goernert, Phillip N; Kato, Koichi; Migita, Mai; Freehafer, Sarah E; Landow, Michael P

2012-08-01

We investigated the role of emotion on item and source memory using the item method of directed forgetting (DF) paradigm. We predicted that emotion would produce source memory impairment because emotion would make it more difficult to distinguish between to-be-remembered (R items) and to-be-forgotten items (F items) by making memory strength of R and F items similar to each other. Participants were presented with negatively arousing, positively arousing, and neutral pictures. After each picture, they received an instruction to remember or forget the picture. At retrieval, participants were asked to recall both R and F items and indicate whether each item was an R or F item. Recall was higher for the negatively arousing than for the positively arousing or neutral pictures. Further, DF occurred for the positively arousing and neutral pictures, whereas DF was not significant for the negatively arousing pictures. More importantly, the negatively arousing pictures, particularly the ones with violent content, showed a higher tendency of producing misattribution errors than the other picture types, supporting the notion that negative emotion may produce source memory impairment, even though it is still not clear whether the impairment occurs at encoding or retrieval. ©2011 The British Psychological Society.

Analysis of dead zone sources in a closed-loop fiber optic gyroscope.

PubMed

Chong, Kyoung-Ho; Choi, Woo-Seok; Chong, Kil-To

2016-01-01

Analysis of the dead zone is among the intensive studies in a closed-loop fiber optic gyroscope. In a dead zone, a gyroscope cannot detect any rotation and produces a zero bias. In this study, an analysis of dead zone sources is performed in simulation and experiments. In general, the problem is mainly due to electrical cross coupling and phase modulation drift. Electrical cross coupling is caused by interference between modulation voltage and the photodetector. The cross-coupled signal produces spurious gyro bias and leads to a dead zone if it is larger than the input rate. Phase modulation drift as another dead zone source is due to the electrode contamination, the piezoelectric effect of the LiNbO3 substrate, or to organic fouling. This modulation drift lasts for a short or long period of time like a lead-lag filter response and produces gyro bias error, noise spikes, or dead zone. For a more detailed analysis, the cross-coupling effect and modulation phase drift are modeled as a filter and are simulated in both the open-loop and closed-loop modes. The sources of dead zone are more clearly analyzed in the simulation and experimental results.

Californium purification and electrodeposition

DOE PAGES

Burns, Jonathan D.; Van Cleve, Shelley M.; Smith, Edward Hamilton; ...

2014-11-30

The staff at the Radiochemical Engineering Development Center, located at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, produced a 6.3 ± 0.4 GBq (1.7 ± 0.1 Ci) 252Cf source for the Californium Rare Isotope Breeder Upgrade (CARIBU) project at Argonne National Laboratory’s Argonne Tandem Linac Accelerator System. The source was produced by electrodeposition of a 252Cf sample onto a stainless steel substrate, which required material free from excess mass for efficient deposition. The resulting deposition was the largest reported 252Cf electrodeposition source ever produced. Several different chromatographic purification methods were investigated to determine which would be most effective for final purification of themore » feed material used for the CARIBU source. The separation of lanthanides from the Cf was of special concern. Furthermore, the separation, using 145Sm, 153Gd, and 249Cf as tracers, was investigated using BioRad AG 50X8 in α-hydroxyisobutyric acid, Eichrom LN resin in both HNO 3 and HCl, and Eichrom TEVA resin in NH 4SCN. The TEVA NH 4SCN system was found to completely separate 145Sm and 153Gd from 249Cf and was adopted into the purification process used in purifying the 252Cf.« less

Optimisation of a propagation-based x-ray phase-contrast micro-CT system

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Nesterets, Yakov I.; Gureyev, Timur E.; Dimmock, Matthew R.

2018-03-01

Micro-CT scanners find applications in many areas ranging from biomedical research to material sciences. In order to provide spatial resolution on a micron scale, these scanners are usually equipped with micro-focus, low-power x-ray sources and hence require long scanning times to produce high resolution 3D images of the object with acceptable contrast-to-noise. Propagation-based phase-contrast tomography (PB-PCT) has the potential to significantly improve the contrast-to-noise ratio (CNR) or, alternatively, reduce the image acquisition time while preserving the CNR and the spatial resolution. We propose a general approach for the optimisation of the PB-PCT imaging system. When applied to an imaging system with fixed parameters of the source and detector this approach requires optimisation of only two independent geometrical parameters of the imaging system, i.e. the source-to-object distance R 1 and geometrical magnification M, in order to produce the best spatial resolution and CNR. If, in addition to R 1 and M, the system parameter space also includes the source size and the anode potential this approach allows one to find a unique configuration of the imaging system that produces the required spatial resolution and the best CNR.

Dynamic photolytical actinometry of the vacuum-ultraviolet radiation produced by multichannel surface discharges of submicrosecond duration.

PubMed

Tcheremiskine, V I; Uteza, O P; Sentis, M L; Mikheev, L D

2007-06-01

Absolute measurements of the vacuum-ultraviolet (VUV) radiation power produced by a planar broadband optical source of submicrosecond light pulse duration are carried out in the transient regime of formation of a photodissociation (bleaching) wave in a photodecomposing absorptive medium. The source is based on a multichannel surface discharge initiated in ArN(2) gas mixtures on the area of approximately 0.1 m(2). The energetic characteristics of the produced VUV radiation are determined on the basis of spatially and temporally resolved observations of the pulsed photolysis of XeF(2) vapors. It is shown that the photon flux intensity produced by the source within the spectral range of 120-200 nm reaches 1.1 x 10(23) photonscm(2) s corresponding to the effective brightness temperature of discharge plasma of 20 kK and to the intrinsic efficiency of the discharge VUV emission of 3.2%. Numerical simulations of the photolysis process show a rather weak sensitivity of the results to the fraction of discharge radiation emitted into the line spectrum, as well as to the angular distribution of emitted radiation. The spectral band of measurements can be selected according to the choice of parent photodecomposing particles.

Tree shrew lavatories: a novel nitrogen sequestration strategy in a tropical pitcher plant.

PubMed

Clarke, Charles M; Bauer, Ulrike; Lee, Ch'ien C; Tuen, Andrew A; Rembold, Katja; Moran, Jonathan A

2009-10-23

Nepenthes pitcher plants are typically carnivorous, producing pitchers with varying combinations of epicuticular wax crystals, viscoelastic fluids and slippery peristomes to trap arthropod prey, especially ants. However, ant densities are low in tropical montane habitats, thereby limiting the potential benefits of the carnivorous syndrome. Nepenthes lowii, a montane species from Borneo, produces two types of pitchers that differ greatly in form and function. Pitchers produced by immature plants conform to the 'typical' Nepenthes pattern, catching arthropod prey. However, pitchers produced by mature N. lowii plants lack the features associated with carnivory and are instead visited by tree shrews, which defaecate into them after feeding on exudates that accumulate on the pitcher lid. We tested the hypothesis that tree shrew faeces represent a significant nitrogen (N) source for N. lowii, finding that it accounts for between 57 and 100 per cent of foliar N in mature N. lowii plants. Thus, N. lowii employs a diversified N sequestration strategy, gaining access to a N source that is not available to sympatric congeners. The interaction between N. lowii and tree shrews appears to be a mutualism based on the exchange of food sources that are scarce in their montane habitat.

Tree shrew lavatories: a novel nitrogen sequestration strategy in a tropical pitcher plant

PubMed Central

Clarke, Charles M.; Bauer, Ulrike; Lee, Ch'ien C.; Tuen, Andrew A.; Rembold, Katja; Moran, Jonathan A.

2009-01-01

Nepenthes pitcher plants are typically carnivorous, producing pitchers with varying combinations of epicuticular wax crystals, viscoelastic fluids and slippery peristomes to trap arthropod prey, especially ants. However, ant densities are low in tropical montane habitats, thereby limiting the potential benefits of the carnivorous syndrome. Nepenthes lowii, a montane species from Borneo, produces two types of pitchers that differ greatly in form and function. Pitchers produced by immature plants conform to the ‘typical’ Nepenthes pattern, catching arthropod prey. However, pitchers produced by mature N. lowii plants lack the features associated with carnivory and are instead visited by tree shrews, which defaecate into them after feeding on exudates that accumulate on the pitcher lid. We tested the hypothesis that tree shrew faeces represent a significant nitrogen (N) source for N. lowii, finding that it accounts for between 57 and 100 per cent of foliar N in mature N. lowii plants. Thus, N. lowii employs a diversified N sequestration strategy, gaining access to a N source that is not available to sympatric congeners. The interaction between N. lowii and tree shrews appears to be a mutualism based on the exchange of food sources that are scarce in their montane habitat. PMID:19515656

Maple sap as a rich medium to grow probiotic lactobacilli and to produce lactic acid.

PubMed

Cochu, A; Fourmier, D; Halasz, A; Hawari, J

2008-12-01

To demonstrate the feasibility of growing lactobacilli and producing lactic acid using maple sap as a sugar source and to show the importance of oligosaccharides in the processes. Two maple sap samples (Cetta and Pinnacle) and purified sucrose were used as carbon sources in the preparation of three culture media. Compared with the sucrose-based medium, both maple sap-based media produced increased viable counts in two strains out of five by a factor of four to seven. Maple sap-based media also enhanced lactic acid production in three strains. Cetta sap was found to be more efficient than Pinnacle sap in stimulating lactic acid production and, was also found to be richer in various oligosaccharides. The amendment of the Pinnacle-based medium with trisaccharides significantly stimulated Lactobacillus acidophilus AC-10 to grow and produce lactic acid. Maple sap, particularly if rich in oligosaccharides, represents a good carbon source for the growth of lactobacilli and the production of lactic acid. This study provides a proof-of-concept, using maple sap as a substrate for lactic acid production and for the development of a nondairy probiotic drink.

Ammonia producing engine utilizing oxygen separation

DOEpatents

Easley, Jr., William Lanier; Coleman, Gerald Nelson [Petersborough, GB; Robel, Wade James [Peoria, IL

2008-12-16

A power system is provided having a power source, a first power source section with a first intake passage and a first exhaust passage, a second power source section with a second intake passage and a second exhaust passage, and an oxygen separator. The second intake passage may be fluidly isolated from the first intake passage.

It's Hard Saying Goodbye to an Old Flame

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

Roy, Ken

2004-01-01

As heat sources go, the old standby for elementary and middle school science laboratories has been the centuries old alcohol lamp. Unfortunately, this inexpensive heat producer has been a continuous source of accidents--many of which are relatively serious. Hot plates are emerging as the most popular source of heat for science experiments. The…

76 FR 57006 - Proposed Generic Communications; Draft NRC Regulatory Issue Summary 2011-XX; NRC Regulation of...

Federal Register 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

2011-09-15

... amended its regulations to include jurisdiction over discrete sources of radium-226, accelerator-produced radioactive materials, and discrete sources of naturally occurring radioactive material, as required by the... those discrete sources of radium-226 under military control that are subject to NRC regulation, as...

40 CFR 63.1316 - PET and polystyrene affected sources-emissions control provisions.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2012-07-01 2011-07-01 true PET and polystyrene affected sources... and Resins § 63.1316 PET and polystyrene affected sources—emissions control provisions. (a) The owner or operator of an affected source producing PET using a continuous process shall comply with...

40 CFR 63.1316 - PET and polystyrene affected sources-emissions control provisions.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2013-07-01 2013-07-01 false PET and polystyrene affected sources... Polymers and Resins § 63.1316 PET and polystyrene affected sources—emissions control provisions. (a) The owner or operator of an affected source producing PET using a continuous process shall comply with...

40 CFR 63.1316 - PET and polystyrene affected sources-emissions control provisions.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... 40 Protection of Environment 12 2014-07-01 2014-07-01 false PET and polystyrene affected sources... Polymers and Resins § 63.1316 PET and polystyrene affected sources—emissions control provisions. (a) The owner or operator of an affected source producing PET using a continuous process shall comply with...

Adult subventricular zone neural stem cells as a potential source of dopaminergic replacement neurons

PubMed Central

Cave, John W.; Wang, Meng; Baker, Harriet

2014-01-01

Clinical trials engrafting human fetal ventral mesencephalic tissue have demonstrated, in principle, that cell replacement therapy provides substantial long-lasting improvement of motor impairments generated by Parkinson's Disease (PD). The use of fetal tissue is not practical for widespread clinical implementation of this therapy, but stem cells are a promising alternative source for obtaining replacement cells. The ideal stem cell source has yet to be established and, in this review, we discuss the potential of neural stem cells in the adult subventricular zone (SVZ) as an autologous source of replacement cells. We identify three key challenges for further developing this potential source of replacement cells: (1) improving survival of transplanted cells, (2) suppressing glial progenitor proliferation and survival, and (3) developing methods to efficiently produce dopaminergic neurons. Subventricular neural stem cells naturally produce a dopaminergic interneuron phenotype that has an apparent lack of vulnerability to PD-mediated degeneration. We also discuss whether olfactory bulb dopaminergic neurons derived from adult SVZ neural stem cells are a suitable source for cell replacement strategies. PMID:24574954

Qualification tests for {sup 192}Ir sealed sources

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Iancso, Georgeta, E-mail: georgetaiancso@yahoo.com; Iliescu, Elena, E-mail: georgetaiancso@yahoo.com; Iancu, Rodica, E-mail: georgetaiancso@yahoo.com

This paper describes the results of qualification tests for {sup 192}Ir sealed sources, available in Testing and Nuclear Expertise Laboratory of National Institute for Physics and Nuclear Engineering 'Horia Hulubei' (I.F.I.N.-HH), Romania. These sources had to be produced in I.F.I.N.-HH and were tested in order to obtain the authorization from The National Commission for Nuclear Activities Control (CNCAN). The sources are used for gammagraphy procedures or in gammadefectoscopy equipments. Tests, measurement methods and equipments used, comply with CNCAN, AIEA and International Quality Standards and regulations. The qualification tests are: 1. Radiological tests and measurements: dose equivalent rate at 1 m;more » tightness; dose equivalent rate at the surface of the transport and storage container; external unfixed contamination of the container surface. 2. Mechanical and climatic tests: thermal shock; external pressure; mechanic shock; vibrations; boring; thermal conditions for storage and transportation. Passing all tests, it was obtained the Radiological Security Authorization for producing the {sup 192}Ir sealed sources. Now IFIN-HH can meet many demands for this sealed sources, as the only manufacturer in Romania.« less

High-temperature pyrolysis of blended animal manures for producing renewable energy and value-added biochar

USDA-ARS?s Scientific Manuscript database

In this study, we used a commercial pilot-scale pyrolysis reactor system to produce combustible gas and biochar at 620 degrees Celsium from three sources (chicken litter, swine solids, mixture of swine solids with rye grass). Pyrolysis of swine solids produced gas with the greatest higher heating va...

40 CFR 421.76 - Pretreatment standards for new sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... produced Lead .000 .000 Zinc .000 .000 (g) Subpart G—Hard Lead Refining Slag Granulation. PSNS Pollutant or... hard lead produced Lead .000 .000 Zinc .000 .000 (h) Subpart G—Hard Lead Refining Wet Air Pollution... (pounds per billion pounds) of hard lead produced Lead .000 .000 Zinc .000 .000 (i) Subpart G—Facility...

40 CFR 421.76 - Pretreatment standards for new sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... produced Lead .000 .000 Zinc .000 .000 (g) Subpart G—Hard Lead Refining Slag Granulation. PSNS Pollutant or... hard lead produced Lead .000 .000 Zinc .000 .000 (h) Subpart G—Hard Lead Refining Wet Air Pollution... (pounds per billion pounds) of hard lead produced Lead .000 .000 Zinc .000 .000 (i) Subpart G—Facility...

40 CFR 430.127 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Tissue, Filter, Non.... Subpart L [PSNS for non-integrated mills where filter and non-woven papers are produced from purchased...

40 CFR 430.127 - Pretreatment standards for new sources (PSNS).

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

...) EFFLUENT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THE PULP, PAPER, AND PAPERBOARD POINT SOURCE CATEGORY Tissue, Filter, Non.... Subpart L [PSNS for non-integrated mills where filter and non-woven papers are produced from purchased...

Method of producing stable metal oxides and chalcogenides and power source

DOEpatents

Doddapaneni, N.; Ingersoll, D.

1996-10-22

A method is described for making chemically and electrochemically stable oxides or other chalcogenides for use as cathodes for power source applications, and of making batteries comprising such materials. 6 figs.

Cultivation of Chlorella vulgaris using different sources of carbon and its impact on lipid production

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Fransiscus, Yunus; Purwanto, Edy

2017-05-01

A cultivation process of Chlorella vulgaris has been done in different treatment to investigate the optimum condition for lipid production. Firstly, autotroph and heterotroph condition have been applied to test the significance impact of carbon availability to the growth and lipid production of Chlorella vulgaris. And for the same purpose, heterotroph condition using glucose, fructose and sucrose as carbon sources was independently implemented. The growth rate of Chlorella vulgaris in autotroph condition was much slower than those in heterotroph. The different sources of carbon gave no significant different in the growth pattern, but in term of lipid production it was presented a considerable result. At lower concentration (3 and 6 gr/L) of carbon sources there was only slight different in lipid production level. At higher concentration (12 gr/L) glucose as a carbon source produced the highest result, 60.18% (w/w) compared to fructose and sucrose that produced 27.34% (w/w) and 18.19% (w/w) respectively.

Increased impedance near cut-off in plasma-like media leading to emission of high-power, narrow-bandwidth radiation

PubMed Central

Hur, M. S.; Ersfeld, B.; Noble, A.; Suk, H.; Jaroszynski, D. A.

2017-01-01

Ultra-intense, narrow-bandwidth, electromagnetic pulses have become important tools for exploring the characteristics of matter. Modern tuneable high-power light sources, such as free-electron lasers and vacuum tubes, rely on bunching of relativistic or near-relativistic electrons in vacuum. Here we present a fundamentally different method for producing narrow-bandwidth radiation from a broad spectral bandwidth current source, which takes advantage of the inflated radiation impedance close to cut-off in a medium with a plasma-like permittivity. We find that by embedding a current source in this cut-off region, more than an order of magnitude enhancement of the radiation intensity is obtained compared with emission directly into free space. The method suggests a simple and general way to flexibly use broadband current sources to produce broad or narrow bandwidth pulses. As an example, we demonstrate, using particle-in-cell simulations, enhanced monochromatic emission of terahertz radiation using a two-colour pumped current source enclosed by a tapered waveguide. PMID:28071681

Overview of Mono-Energetic Gamma-Ray Sources and Applications

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Hartemann, Fred; /LLNL, Livermore; Albert, Felicie

2012-06-25

Recent progress in accelerator physics and laser technology have enabled the development of a new class of tunable gamma-ray light sources based on Compton scattering between a high-brightness, relativistic electron beam and a high intensity laser pulse produced via chirped-pulse amplification (CPA). A precision, tunable Mono-Energetic Gamma-ray (MEGa-ray) source driven by a compact, high-gradient X-band linac is currently under development and construction at LLNL. High-brightness, relativistic electron bunches produced by an X-band linac designed in collaboration with SLAC NAL will interact with a Joule-class, 10 ps, diode-pumped CPA laser pulse to generate tunable {gamma}-rays in the 0.5-2.5 MeV photon energymore » range via Compton scattering. This MEGaray source will be used to excite nuclear resonance fluorescence in various isotopes. Applications include homeland security, stockpile science and surveillance, nuclear fuel assay, and waste imaging and assay. The source design, key parameters, and current status are presented, along with important applications, including nuclear resonance fluorescence.« less

Biomass and pigments production in photosynthetic bacteria wastewater treatment: effects of light sources.

PubMed

Zhou, Qin; Zhang, Panyue; Zhang, Guangming

2015-03-01

This study is aimed at enhancing biomass and pigments production together with pollution removal in photosynthetic bacteria (PSB) wastewater treatment via different light sources. Red, yellow, blue, white LED and incandescent lamp were used. Results showed different light sources had great effects on the PSB. PSB had the highest biomass production, COD removal and biomass yield with red LED. The corresponding biomass, COD removal and biomass yield reached 2580 mg/L, 88.6% and 0.49 mg-biomass/mg-COD-removal, respectively. The hydraulic retention time of wastewater treatment could be shortened to 72 h with red LED. Mechanism analysis showed higher ATP was produced with red LED than others. Light sources could significantly affect the pigments production. The pigments productions were greatly higher with LED than incandescent lamp. Yellow LED had the highest pigments production while red LED produced the highest carotenoid/bacteriochlorophyll ratio. Considering both efficiency and energy cost, red LED was the optimal light source. Copyright © 2014 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

Increased impedance near cut-off in plasma-like media leading to emission of high-power, narrow-bandwidth radiation

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Hur, M. S.; Ersfeld, B.; Noble, A.; Suk, H.; Jaroszynski, D. A.

2017-01-01

Ultra-intense, narrow-bandwidth, electromagnetic pulses have become important tools for exploring the characteristics of matter. Modern tuneable high-power light sources, such as free-electron lasers and vacuum tubes, rely on bunching of relativistic or near-relativistic electrons in vacuum. Here we present a fundamentally different method for producing narrow-bandwidth radiation from a broad spectral bandwidth current source, which takes advantage of the inflated radiation impedance close to cut-off in a medium with a plasma-like permittivity. We find that by embedding a current source in this cut-off region, more than an order of magnitude enhancement of the radiation intensity is obtained compared with emission directly into free space. The method suggests a simple and general way to flexibly use broadband current sources to produce broad or narrow bandwidth pulses. As an example, we demonstrate, using particle-in-cell simulations, enhanced monochromatic emission of terahertz radiation using a two-colour pumped current source enclosed by a tapered waveguide.

Producing X-rays at the APS

ScienceCinema

None

2017-12-09

An introduction and overview of the Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Laboratory, the technology that produces the brightest X-ray beams in the Western Hemisphere, and the research carried out by scientists using those X-rays.

ON ULTRA-HIGH-ENERGY COSMIC RAYS AND THEIR RESULTANT GAMMA-RAYS

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Gavish, Eyal; Eichler, David

2016-05-01

The Fermi Large Area Telescope collaboration has recently reported on 50 months of measurements of the isotropic extragalactic gamma-ray background (EGRB) spectrum between 100 MeV and 820 GeV. Ultra-high-energy cosmic ray (UHECR) protons interact with the cosmic microwave background photons and produce cascade photons of energies 10 MeV–1 TeV that contribute to the EGRB flux. We examine seven possible evolution models for UHECRs and find that UHECR sources that evolve as the star formation rate (SFR), medium low luminosity active galactic nuclei type-1 ( L = 10{sup 43.5} erg s{sup −1} in the [0.5–2] KeV band), and BL Lacertae objectsmore » (BL Lacs) are the most acceptable given the constraints imposed by the observed EGRB. Other possibilities produce too much secondary γ -radiation. In all cases, the decaying dark matter (DM) contribution improves the fit at high energy, but the contribution of still unresolved blazars, which would leave the smallest role for decaying DM, may yet provide an alternative improvement. The possibility that the entire EGRB can be fitted with resolvable but not-yet-resolved blazars, as recently claimed by Ajello et al., would leave little room in the EGRB to accommodate γ -rays from extragalactic UHECR production, even for many source evolution rates that would otherwise be acceptable. We find that under the assumption of UHECRs being mostly protons, there is not enough room for producing extragalactic UHECRs with active galactic nucleus, gamma-ray burst, or even SFR source evolution. Sources that evolve as BL Lacs, on the other hand, would produce much less secondary γ -radiation and would remain a viable source of UHECRs, provided that they dominate.« less

Co-production of functional exopolysaccharides and lactic acid by Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens originated from fermented milk, kefir.

PubMed

Cheirsilp, Benjamas; Suksawang, Suwannee; Yeesang, Jarucha; Boonsawang, Piyarat

2018-01-01

Kefiran is a functional exopolysaccharide produced by Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens originated from kefir, traditional fermented milk in the Caucasian Mountains, Russia. Kefiran is attractive as thickeners, stabilizers, emulsifiers, gelling agents and also has antimicrobial and antitumor activity. However, the production costs of kefiran are still high mainly due to high cost of carbon and nitrogen sources. This study aimed to produce kefiran and its co-product, lactic acid, from low-cost industrial byproducts. Among the sources tested, whey lactose (at 2% sugar concentration) and spent yeast cells hydrolysate (at 6 g-nitrogen/L) gave the highest kefiran of 480 ± 21 mg/L along with lactic acid of 20.1 ± 0.2 g/L. The combination of these two sources and initial pH were optimized through Response Surface Methodology. With the optimized medium, L. kefiranofaciens produced more kefiran and lactic acid up to 635 ± 7 mg/L and 32.9 ± 0.7 g/L, respectively. When the pH was controlled to alleviate the inhibition from acidic pH, L. kefiranofaciens could consume all sugars and produced kefiran and lactic acid up to 1693 ± 29 mg/L and 87.49 ± 0.23 g/L, respectively. Moreover, the fed-batch fermentation with intermittent adding of whey lactose improved kefiran and lactic acid productions up to 2514 ± 93 mg/L and 135 ± 1.75 g/L, respectively. These results indicate the promising approach to economically produce kefiran and lactic acid from low-cost nutrient sources.

Remote sensing of a NTC radio source from a Cluster tilted spacecraft pair

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Décréau, Pierrette; Kougblénou, Séna; Lointier, Guillaume; Rauch, Jean Louis; Trotignon, Jean Gabriel; Vallières, Xavier; Canu, Patrick; Rochel Grimald, Sandrine; El-Lemdani Mazouz, Farida; Darrouzet, Fabien

2014-05-01

The non-thermal continuum (NTC) radiation is a radio wave produced within the magnetosphere of a planet. It has been observed in space around Earth since the '70s, and within the magnetospheres of other planets since the late '80s. A new study using ESA's Cluster mission has shown improved precision in determining the source of various radio emissions produced by the Earth. The experiment involved tilting one of the four identical Cluster spacecraft to measure the electric field of this emission in three dimensions for the first time. Our analysis of a NTC case event pinpointed a small deviation from the generally assumed (circular) polarization of this emission. We show that classical triangulation, in this case using three of the spacecraft located thousands of kilometres apart, can lead to an erroneous source location. A second method, using the new 3D electric field measurements, indicated a source located along the plasmapause at medium geomagnetic latitude, far away from the source location estimated by triangulation. Cluster observations reveal that this NTC source emits from the flank of the plasmapause towards the polar cap. Understanding the source of NTC waves will help with the broader understanding of their generation, amplification, and propagation.

Measurements of the thermal neutron flux for an accelerator-based photoneutron source.

PubMed

Taheri, Ali; Pazirandeh, Ali

2016-12-01

To have access to an appropriate neutron source is one of the most demanding requirements for neutron studies. This is important specially in laboratory and clinical applications, which need more compact and accessible sources. The most known neutron sources are fission reactors and natural isotopes, but there is an increasing interest for using accelerator based neutron sources because of their advantages. In this paper, we shall present a photo-neutron source prototype which is designed and fabricated to be used for different neutron researches including in-laboratory neutron activation analysis and neutron imaging, and also preliminary studies in boron neutron capture therapy (BNCT). Series of experimental tests were conducted to examine the intensity and quality of the neutron field produced by this source. Monte-Carlo simulations were also utilized to provide more detailed evaluation of the neutron spectrum, and determine the accuracy of the experiments. The experiments demonstrated a thermal neutron flux in the order of 10 7 (n/cm 2 .s), while simulations affirmed this flux and showed a neutron spectrum with a sharp peak at thermal energy region. According to the results, about 60 % of produced neutrons are in the range of thermal to epithermal neutrons.

Data acquisition techniques for exploiting the uniqueness of the time-of-flight mass spectrometer: Application to sampling pulsed gas systems

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Lincoln, K. A.

1980-01-01

Mass spectra are produced in most mass spectrometers by sweeping some parameter within the instrument as the sampled gases flow into the ion source. It is evident that any fluctuation in the gas during the sweep (mass scan) of the instrument causes the output spectrum to be skewed in its mass peak intensities. The time of flight mass spectrometer (TOFMS) with its fast, repetitive mode of operation produces spectra without skewing or varying instrument parameters and because all ion species are ejected from the ion source simultaneously, the spectra are inherently not skewed despite rapidly changing gas pressure or composition in the source. Methods of exploiting this feature by utilizing fast digital data acquisition systems, such as transient recorders and signal averagers which are commercially available are described. Applications of this technique are presented including TOFMS sampling of vapors produced by both pulsed and continuous laser heating of materials.

Method and apparatus for detecting internal structures of bulk objects using acoustic imaging

DOEpatents

Deason, Vance A.; Telschow, Kenneth L.

2002-01-01

Apparatus for producing an acoustic image of an object according to the present invention may comprise an excitation source for vibrating the object to produce at least one acoustic wave therein. The acoustic wave results in the formation of at least one surface displacement on the surface of the object. A light source produces an optical object wavefront and an optical reference wavefront and directs the optical object wavefront toward the surface of the object to produce a modulated optical object wavefront. A modulator operatively associated with the optical reference wavefront modulates the optical reference wavefront in synchronization with the acoustic wave to produce a modulated optical reference wavefront. A sensing medium positioned to receive the modulated optical object wavefront and the modulated optical reference wavefront combines the modulated optical object and reference wavefronts to produce an image related to the surface displacement on the surface of the object. A detector detects the image related to the surface displacement produced by the sensing medium. A processing system operatively associated with the detector constructs an acoustic image of interior features of the object based on the phase and amplitude of the surface displacement on the surface of the object.

Agro-Industrial Wastes for Production of Biosurfactant by Bacillus subtilis ANR 88 and Its Application in Synthesis of Silver and Gold Nanoparticles.

PubMed

Rane, Ashwini N; Baikar, Vishakha V; Ravi Kumar, V; Deopurkar, Rajendra L

2017-01-01

Biosurfactants, surface-active amphiphilic compounds, despite having a wide range of applications, have a high cost of production, which severely restricts their use. For cheaper production of biosurfactant, we investigated the potential of the indigenously isolated biosurfactant producing organism, Bacillus subtilis ANR 88, to grow on different cheap carbon sources (molasses, whey, and extracts of potato peels, orange peels, banana peels, and bagasse). We found that, B. subtilis ANR 88 used significant amounts of total sugar to produce cell biomass and biosurfactant. The biosurfactant production in minimal medium containing glucose as sole source of carbon was 0.207 g/l and the same with molasses as carbon source was 0.241 g/l. With whey as carbon source, isolate failed to produce biosurfactant. Amongst the extracts of the agro-wastes, the extracts of bagasse and orange peels gave 0.127 and 0.089 g/l of biosurfactant respectively. One-variable-at-a-time (OVAT) studies carried out to optimize the production of biosurfactant by B. subtilis ANR 88 resulted into maximum biosurfactant yield of 0.513 g/l in medium: molasses 4%, ammonium ferric citrate 0.25%, pH 7. Plackett-Burman design based statistical method for optimization increased the production of biosurfactant to 0.746 g/l, which is 3.6-fold of that produced on glucose. The biosurfactant produced by B. subtilis ANR 88 was analyzed by Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FT-IR); it showed that the biosurfactant contained alkyl as well as peptide groups. The biosurfactant of B. subtilis ANR 88 was found effective in the synthesis of silver as well as gold nanoparticles in the total absence of conventional chemical reducing agents. Interestingly, nanoparticles produced were almost uniform in their size and shapes i.e., spherical silver (4-18 nm) and hexagonal gold nanoparticles (40-60 nm), as evident in TEM images.

Plasma instability control toward high fluence, high energy x-ray continuum source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Poole, Patrick; Kirkwood, Robert; Wilks, Scott; Blue, Brent

2017-10-01

X-ray source development at Omega and NIF seeks to produce powerful radiation with high conversion efficiency for material effects studies in extreme fluence environments. While current K-shell emission sources can achieve tens of kJ on NIF up to 22 keV, the conversion efficiency drops rapidly for higher Z K-alpha energies. Pulsed power devices are efficient generators of MeV bremsstrahlung x-rays but are unable to produce lower energy photons in isolation, and so a capability gap exists for high fluence x-rays in the 30 - 100 keV range. A continuum source under development utilizes instabilities like Stimulated Raman Scattering (SRS) to generate plasma waves that accelerate electrons into high-Z converter walls. Optimizing instabilities using existing knowledge on their elimination will allow sufficiently hot and high yield electron distributions to create a superior bremsstrahlung x-ray source. An Omega experiment has been performed to investigate the optimization of SRS and high energy x-rays using Au hohlraums with parylene inner lining and foam fills, producing 10× greater x-ray yield at 50 keV than conventional direct drive experiments on the facility. Experiment and simulation details on this campaign will be presented. This work was performed under the auspices of the US DoE by LLNL under Contract No. DE-AC52-07NA27344.

Ion Sources

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Haseroth, Helmut; Hora, Heinrich

1993-03-01

Ion sources for accelerators are based on plasma configurations with an extraction system in order to gain a very high number of ions within an appropriately short pulse and of sufficiently high charge number Z for advanced research. Beginning with the duoplasmatron, all established ion sources are based on low-density plasmas, of which the electron beam ionization source (EBIS) and the electron cyclotron resonance (ECR) source are the most advanced; for example they result in pulses of nearly 6 × 108 fully stripped sulfur ions per pulse in the Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) at CERN with energies of 200 GeV/u. As an example of a forthcoming development, we are reporting about the lead ion source for the same purpose. Contrary to these cases of low-density plasmas, where a rather long time is always necessary to generate sufficiently high charge states, the laser ion source uses very high density plasmas and therefore produced, for example in 1983, single shots of Au51+ ions of high directivity with energies above 300 MeV within 2 ns irradiation time of a gold target with a medium-to-large CO2 laser. Experiments at Dubna and Moscow, using small-size lasers, produced up to one million shots with 1 Hz sequence. After acceleration by a linac or otherwise, ion pulses of up to nearly 5 × 1010 ions of C4+ or Mg12+ with energies in the synchrotrons of up to 2 GeV/u were produced. The physics of the laser generation of the ions is most complex, as we know from laser fusion studies, including non-linear dynamic and dielectric effects, resonances, self-focusing, instabilities, double layers, and an irregular pulsation in the 20 ps range. This explains not only what difficulties are implied with the laser ion source, but also why it opens up a new direction of ion sources.

Origin of acoustic emission produced during single point machining

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Heiple, C.R,.; Carpenter, S.H.; Armentrout, D.L.

1991-01-01

Acoustic emission was monitored during single point, continuous machining of 4340 steel and Ti-6Al-4V as a function of heat treatment. Acoustic emission produced during tensile and compressive deformation of these alloys has been previously characterized as a function of heat treatment. Heat treatments which increase the strength of 4340 steel increase the amount of acoustic emission produced during deformation, while heat treatments which increase the strength of Ti-6Al-4V decrease the amount of acoustic emission produced during deformation. If chip deformation were the primary source of acoustic emission during single point machining, then opposite trends in the level of acoustic emissionmore » produced during machining as a function of material strength would be expected for these two alloys. Trends in rms acoustic emission level with increasing strength were similar for both alloys, demonstrating that chip deformation is not a major source of acoustic emission in single point machining. Acoustic emission has also been monitored as a function of machining parameters on 6061-T6 aluminum, 304 stainless steel, 17-4PH stainless steel, lead, and teflon. The data suggest that sliding friction between the nose and/or flank of the tool and the newly machined surface is the primary source of acoustic emission. Changes in acoustic emission with tool wear were strongly material dependent. 21 refs., 19 figs., 4 tabs.« less

Geochemical and strontium isotope characterization of produced waters from Marcellus Shale natural gas extraction.

PubMed

Chapman, Elizabeth C; Capo, Rosemary C; Stewart, Brian W; Kirby, Carl S; Hammack, Richard W; Schroeder, Karl T; Edenborn, Harry M

2012-03-20

Extraction of natural gas by hydraulic fracturing of the Middle Devonian Marcellus Shale, a major gas-bearing unit in the Appalachian Basin, results in significant quantities of produced water containing high total dissolved solids (TDS). We carried out a strontium (Sr) isotope investigation to determine the utility of Sr isotopes in identifying and quantifying the interaction of Marcellus Formation produced waters with other waters in the Appalachian Basin in the event of an accidental release, and to provide information about the source of the dissolved solids. Strontium isotopic ratios of Marcellus produced waters collected over a geographic range of ~375 km from southwestern to northeastern Pennsylvania define a relatively narrow set of values (ε(Sr)(SW) = +13.8 to +41.6, where ε(Sr) (SW) is the deviation of the (87)Sr/(86)Sr ratio from that of seawater in parts per 10(4)); this isotopic range falls above that of Middle Devonian seawater, and is distinct from most western Pennsylvania acid mine drainage and Upper Devonian Venango Group oil and gas brines. The uniformity of the isotope ratios suggests a basin-wide source of dissolved solids with a component that is more radiogenic than seawater. Mixing models indicate that Sr isotope ratios can be used to sensitively differentiate between Marcellus Formation produced water and other potential sources of TDS into ground or surface waters.

Non-destructive testing method and apparatus

DOEpatents

Akers, Douglas W [Idaho Falls, ID

2011-10-04

Non-destructive testing apparatus may comprise a photon source and a source material that emits positrons in response to bombardment of the source material with photons. The source material is positionable adjacent the photon source and a specimen so that when the source material is positioned adjacent the photon source it is exposed to photons produced thereby. When the source material is positioned adjacent the specimen, the specimen is exposed to at least some of the positrons emitted by the source material. A detector system positioned adjacent the specimen detects annihilation gamma rays emitted by the specimen. Another embodiment comprises a neutron source and a source material that emits positrons in response to neutron bombardment.

Potential microbial risk factors related to soil amendments and irrigation water of potato crops.

PubMed

Selma, M V; Allende, A; López-Gálvez, F; Elizaquível, P; Aznar, R; Gil, M I

2007-12-01

This study assesses the potential microbial risk factors related to the use of soil amendments and irrigation water on potato crops, cultivated in one traditional and two intensive farms during two harvest seasons. The natural microbiota and potentially pathogenic micro-organisms were evaluated in the soil amendment, irrigation water, soil and produce. Uncomposted amendments and residual and creek water samples showed the highest microbial counts. The microbial load of potatoes harvested in spring was similar among the tested farms despite the diverse microbial levels of Listeria spp. and faecal coliforms in the potential risk sources. However, differences in total coliform load of potato were found between farms cultivated in the autumn. Immunochromatographic rapid tests and the BAM's reference method (Bacteriological Analytical Manual; AOAC International) were used to detect Escherichia coli O157:H7 from the potential risk sources and produce. Confirmation of the positive results by polymerase chain reaction procedures showed that the immunochromatographic assay was not reliable as it led to false-positive results. The potentially pathogenic micro-organisms of soil amendment, irrigation water and soil samples changed with the harvest seasons and the use of different agricultural practices. However, the microbial load of the produce was not always influenced by these risk sources. Improvements in environmental sample preparation are needed to avoid interferences in the use of immunochromatographic rapid tests. The potential microbial risk sources of fresh produce should be regularly controlled using reliable detection methods to guarantee their microbial safety.

Long lifetime, low intensity light source for use in nighttime viewing of equipment maps and other writings

DOEpatents

Frank, Alan M.; Edwards, William R.

1983-01-01

A long-lifetime light source with sufficiently low intensity to be used for reading a map or other writing at nighttime, while not obscuring the user's normal night vision. This light source includes a diode electrically connected in series with a small power source and a lens properly positioned to focus at least a portion of the light produced by the diode.

Are dispensaries indispensable? Patient experiences of access to cannabis from medical cannabis dispensaries in Canada.

PubMed

Capler, Rielle; Walsh, Zach; Crosby, Kim; Belle-Isle, Lynne; Holtzman, Susan; Lucas, Philippe; Callaway, Robert

2017-09-01

In 2001, Canada established a federal program for cannabis for therapeutic purposes (CTP). Medical cannabis dispensaries (dispensaries) are widely accessed as a source of CTP despite storefront sales of cannabis being illegal. The discrepancy between legal status and social practice has fuelled active debate regarding the role of dispensaries. The present study aims to inform this debate by analysing CTP user experiences with different CTP sources, and comparing dispensary users to those accessing CTP from other sources. We compared sociodemographic characteristics, health related factors and patterns of cannabis use of 445 respondents, 215 who accessed CTP from dispensaries with 230 who accessed other sources. We compared patients' ratings of CTP sources (dispensaries, Health Canada's supplier, self-production, other producer, friend or acquaintance, street dealer) for quality and availability of product, safety and efficiency of access, cost, and feeling respected while accessing. Patients using dispensaries were older, more likely to have arthritis and HIV/AIDS, and less likely to have mental health conditions than those not using dispensaries. Those accessing dispensaries used larger quantities of cannabis, placed greater value on access to specific strains, and were more likely to have legal authorization for CTP. Dispensaries were rated equally to or more favourably than other sources of CTP for quality, safety, availability, efficiency and feeling respected, and less favourably than self-production and other producer for cost. Given the high endorsement of dispensaries by patients, future regulations should consider including dispensaries as a source of CTP and address known barriers to access such as cost and health care provider support. Further research should assess the impact of the addition of licensed producers on the role and perceived value of dispensaries within the Canadian medical cannabis system. Copyright © 2017 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

Intense fusion neutron sources

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Kuteev, B. V.; Goncharov, P. R.; Sergeev, V. Yu.; Khripunov, V. I.

2010-04-01

The review describes physical principles underlying efficient production of free neutrons, up-to-date possibilities and prospects of creating fission and fusion neutron sources with intensities of 1015-1021 neutrons/s, and schemes of production and application of neutrons in fusion-fission hybrid systems. The physical processes and parameters of high-temperature plasmas are considered at which optimal conditions for producing the largest number of fusion neutrons in systems with magnetic and inertial plasma confinement are achieved. The proposed plasma methods for neutron production are compared with other methods based on fusion reactions in nonplasma media, fission reactions, spallation, and muon catalysis. At present, intense neutron fluxes are mainly used in nanotechnology, biotechnology, material science, and military and fundamental research. In the near future (10-20 years), it will be possible to apply high-power neutron sources in fusion-fission hybrid systems for producing hydrogen, electric power, and technological heat, as well as for manufacturing synthetic nuclear fuel and closing the nuclear fuel cycle. Neutron sources with intensities approaching 1020 neutrons/s may radically change the structure of power industry and considerably influence the fundamental and applied science and innovation technologies. Along with utilizing the energy produced in fusion reactions, the achievement of such high neutron intensities may stimulate wide application of subcritical fast nuclear reactors controlled by neutron sources. Superpower neutron sources will allow one to solve many problems of neutron diagnostics, monitor nano-and biological objects, and carry out radiation testing and modification of volumetric properties of materials at the industrial level. Such sources will considerably (up to 100 times) improve the accuracy of neutron physics experiments and will provide a better understanding of the structure of matter, including that of the neutron itself.

Performance of the LANSCE H^- Source and Low Energy Transport at Higher Peak Current

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Pillai, Chandra; Stevens, Ralph; Fitzgerald, Daniel; Garnett, Robert; Ingllas, William; Merrill, Frank; Rybarcyk, Larry; Sander, Oscar

1997-05-01

The Los Alamos Neutron Science Center (LANSCE) 800 MeV linac facility uses a multicusp field, surface ion source to produce H^- beam for delivery to the Proton Storage Ring (PSR) and to the Weapon Neutron Research (WNR) areas. The source typically operates at a duty factor of 9.4% delivering a peak current of about 14 mA into the 750 keV LEBT. Each beam macropulse is chopped to create a sequence of 360 ns pulse, each with a 100 ns ``extraction notch'' for injection into PSR. The average current delivered to the short-pulse spallation target is nominally 70μA. One goal of the present PSR upgrade projects is an increase in the average beam current to 200μA. This will be accomplished by a combination of increased repetition rate (to 30 Hz), upgraded PSR bunchers, and a brighter H^- ion source that will produce higher peak current with lower beam emittance. The present ion source and injector system was studied to investigate the beam qualities of the source and the performance of the low energy transpot. The performance of the ion source at higher currents and the change in beam parameters in the low energy transport compared to those in the standard source conditions will be presented.

Tendril-producing Geysers on Enceladus South Polar Terrain

NASA Image and Video Library

2015-04-14

This graphic plots the source locations of geysers scientists have located on Enceladus south polar terrain, with the 36 most active geyser sources marked and color coded by the behavior of the grains erupting from the geysers.

SELF-REACTIVATING NEUTRON SOURCE FOR A NEUTRONIC REACTOR

DOEpatents

Newson, H.W.

1959-02-01

Reactors of the type employing beryllium in a reflector region around the active portion and to a neutron source for use therewith are discussed. The neutron source is comprised or a quantity of antimony permanently incorporated in, and as an integral part of, the reactor in or near the beryllium reflector region. During operation of the reactor the natural occurring antimony isotope of atomic weight 123 absorbs neutrons and is thereby transformed to the antimony isotope of atomic weight 124, which is radioactive and emits gamma rays. The gamma rays react with the beryllium to produce neutrons. The beryllium and antimony thus cooperate to produce a built in neutron source which is automatically reactivated by the operation of the reactor itself and which is of sufficient strength to maintain the slow neutron flux at a sufficiently high level to be reliably measured during periods when the reactor is shut down.

PHOTON SPECTRA IN NPL STANDARD RADIONUCLIDE NEUTRON FIELDS.

PubMed

Roberts, N J

2017-09-23

A HPGe detector has been used to measure the photon spectra from the majority of radionuclide neutron sources in use at NPL (252Cf, 241Am-Be, 241Am-Li, 241Am-B). The HPGe was characterised then modelled to produce a response matrix. The measured pulse height spectra were then unfolded to produce photon fluence spectra. Changes in the photon spectrum with time from a 252Cf source are evident. Spectra from a 2-year-old and 42-year-old 252Cf source are presented showing the change from a continuum to peaks from long-lived isotopes of Cf. Other radionuclide neutron source spectra are also presented and discussed. The new spectra were used to improve the photon to neutron dose equivalent ratios from some earlier work at NPL with GM tubes and EPDs. © The Author 2017. Published by Oxford University Press. All rights reserved. For Permissions, please email: journals.permissions@oup.com.

Microlensing as a possible probe of event-horizon structure in quasars

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Tomozeiu, Mihai; Mohammed, Irshad; Rabold, Manuel; Saha, Prasenjit; Wambsganss, Joachim

2018-04-01

In quasars which are lensed by galaxies, the point-like images sometimes show sharp and uncorrelated brightness variations (microlensing). These brightness changes are associated with the innermost region of the quasar passing through a complicated pattern of caustics produced by the stars in the lensing galaxy. In this paper, we study whether the universal properties of optical caustics could enable extraction of shape information about the central engine of quasars. We present a toy model with a crescent-shaped source crossing a fold caustic. The silhouette of a black hole over an accretion disc tends to produce roughly crescent sources. When a crescent-shaped source crosses a fold caustic, the resulting light curve is noticeably different from the case of a circular luminosity profile or Gaussian source. With good enough monitoring data, the crescent parameters, apart from one degeneracy, can be recovered.

High-intensity polarized H- ion source for the RHIC SPIN physics

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Zelenski, A.; Atoian, G.; Raparia, D.; Ritter, J.; Kolmogorov, A.; Davydenko, V.

2017-08-01

A novel polarization technique had been successfully implemented for the RHIC polarized H- ion source upgrade to higher intensity and polarization. In this technique a proton beam inside the high magnetic field solenoid is produced by ionization of the atomic hydrogen beam (from external source) in the He-gas ionizer cell. Further proton polarization is produced in the process of polarized electron capture from the optically-pumped Rb vapour. The use of high-brightness primary beam and large cross-sections of charge-exchange cross-sections resulted in production of high intensity H- ion beam of 85% polarization. High beam brightness and polarization resulted in 75% polarization at 23 GeV out of AGS and 60-65% beam polarization at 100-250 GeV colliding beams in RHIC. The status of un-polarized magnetron type (Cs-vapour loaded) BNL source is also discussed.

Microlensing as a Possible Probe of Event-Horizon Structure in Quasars

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Tomozeiu, Mihai; Mohammed, Irshad; Rabold, Manuel

In quasars which are lensed by galaxies, the point-like images sometimes show sharp and uncorrelated brightness variations (microlensing). These brightness changes are associated with the innermost region of the quasar passing through a complicated pattern of caustics produced by the stars in the lensing galaxy. In this paper, we study whether the universal properties of optical caustics could enable extraction of shape information about the central engine of quasars. We present a toy model with a crescent-shaped source crossing a fold caustic. The silhouette of a black hole over an accretion disk tends to produce roughly crescent sources. When amore » crescent-shaped source crosses a fold caustic, the resulting light curve is noticeably different from the case of a circular luminosity profile or Gaussian source. With good enough monitoring data, the crescent parameters, apart from one degeneracy, can be recovered.« less

Altered [99mTc]Tc-MDP biodistribution from neutron activation sourced 99Mo.

PubMed

Demeter, Sandor; Szweda, Roman; Patterson, Judy; Grigoryan, Marine

2018-01-01

Given potential worldwide shortages of fission sourced 99 Mo/ 99m Tc medical isotopes there is increasing interest in alternate production strategies. A neutron activated 99 Mo source was utilized in a single center phase III open label study comparing 99m Tc, as 99m Tc Methylene Diphosphonate ([ 99m Tc]Tc-MDP), obtained from solvent generator separation of neutron activation produced 99 Mo, versus nuclear reactor produced 99 Mo (e.g., fission sourced) in oncology patients for which an [ 99m Tc]Tc-MDP bone scan would normally have been indicated. Despite the investigational [ 99m Tc]Tc-MDP passing all standard, and above standard of care, quality assurance tests, which would normally be sufficient to allow human administration, there was altered biodistribution which could lead to erroneous clinical interpretation. The cause of the altered biodistribution remains unknown and requires further research.

Microlensing as a Possible Probe of Event-Horizon Structure in Quasars

DOE PAGES

Tomozeiu, Mihai; Mohammed, Irshad; Rabold, Manuel; ...

2017-12-08

In quasars which are lensed by galaxies, the point-like images sometimes show sharp and uncorrelated brightness variations (microlensing). These brightness changes are associated with the innermost region of the quasar passing through a complicated pattern of caustics produced by the stars in the lensing galaxy. In this paper, we study whether the universal properties of optical caustics could enable extraction of shape information about the central engine of quasars. We present a toy model with a crescent-shaped source crossing a fold caustic. The silhouette of a black hole over an accretion disk tends to produce roughly crescent sources. When amore » crescent-shaped source crosses a fold caustic, the resulting light curve is noticeably different from the case of a circular luminosity profile or Gaussian source. With good enough monitoring data, the crescent parameters, apart from one degeneracy, can be recovered.« less

Improved performances of CIBER-X: a new tabletop laser-driven electron and x-ray source

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Girardeau-Montaut, Jean-Pierre; Kiraly, Bela; Girardeau-Montaut, Claire

2000-11-01

We present the most recent data concerning the performances of the table-top laser driven electron and x-ray source developed in our laboratory. X-ray pulses are produced by a three-step process which consists of the photoelectron emission from a thin metallic photocathode illuminated by 16 ps duration laser pulse at 213 nm. The e-gun is a standard pierce diode electrode type, in which electrons are accelerated by a cw electric fields of 12 MV/m. The photoinjector produced a train of 90 - 100 keV electron pulses of approximately 1 nC and 40 A peak current at a repetition rate of 10 Hz. The electrons, transported outside the diode, are focused onto a target of thulium by magnetic fields produced by two electromagnetic coils to produce x-rays. Applications to low dose imagery of inert and living materials are also presented.

Ion source based on the cathodic arc

DOEpatents

Sanders, David M.; Falabella, Steven

1994-01-01

A cylindrically symmetric arc source to produce a ring of ions which leave the surface of the arc target radially and are reflected by electrostatic fields present in the source to a point of use, such as a part to be coated. An array of electrically isolated rings positioned in the source serves the dual purpose of minimizing bouncing of macroparticles and providing electrical insulation to maximize the electric field gradients within the source. The source also includes a series of baffles which function as a filtering or trapping mechanism for any macroparticles.

An overview of negative hydrogen ion sources for accelerators

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Faircloth, Dan; Lawrie, Scott

2018-02-01

An overview of high current (>1 mA) negative hydrogen ion (H-) sources that are currently used on particle accelerators. The current understanding of how H- ions are produced is summarised. Issues relating to caesium usage are explored. The different ways of expressing emittance and beam currents are clarified. Source technology naming conventions are defined and generalised descriptions of each source technology are provided. Examples of currently operating sources are outlined, with their current status and future outlook given. A comparative table is provided.

An advanced negative hydrogen ion source

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Goncharov, Alexey A., E-mail: gonchar@iop.kiev.ua; Dobrovolsky, Andrey N.; Goretskii, Victor P.

2016-02-15

The results of investigation of emission productivity of negative particles source with cesiated combined discharge are presented. A cylindrical beam of negative hydrogen ions with density about 2 A/cm{sup 2} in low noise mode on source emission aperture is obtained. The total beam current values are up to 200 mA for negative hydrogen ions and up to 1.5 A for all negative particles with high divergence after source. The source has simple design and can produce stable discharge with low level of oscillation.

High Power Helicon Plasma Source for Plasma Processing

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Prager, James; Ziemba, Timothy; Miller, Kenneth E.

2015-09-01

Eagle Harbor Technologies (EHT), Inc. is developing a high power helicon plasma source. The high power nature and pulsed neutral gas make this source unique compared to traditional helicon source. These properties produce a plasma flow along the magnetic field lines, and therefore allow the source to be decoupled from the reaction chamber. Neutral gas can be injected downstream, which allows for precision control of the ion-neutral ratio at the surface of the sample. Although operated at high power, the source has demonstrated very low impurity production. This source has applications to nanoparticle productions, surface modification, and ionized physical vapor deposition.

Liquid metal ion source and alloy

DOEpatents

Clark, Jr., William M.; Utlaut, Mark W.; Behrens, Robert G.; Szklarz, Eugene G.; Storms, Edmund K.; Santandrea, Robert P.; Swanson, Lynwood W.

1988-10-04

A liquid metal ion source and alloy, wherein the species to be emitted from the ion source is contained in a congruently vaporizing alloy. In one embodiment, the liquid metal ion source acts as a source of arsenic, and in a source alloy the arsenic is combined with palladium, preferably in a liquid alloy having a range of compositions from about 24 to about 33 atomic percent arsenic. Such an alloy may be readily prepared by a combustion synthesis technique. Liquid metal ion sources thus prepared produce arsenic ions for implantation, have long lifetimes, and are highly stable in operation.

APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING HIGH VELOCITY SHOCK WAVES IN GASES

DOEpatents

Scott, F.R.; Josephson, V.

1960-02-01

>A device for producing a high-energy ionized gas region comprises an evacuated tapered insulating vessel and a substantially hemispherical insulating cap hermetically affixed to the large end of the vessel, an annular electrode having a diameter equal to and supported in the interior wall of the vessel at the large end and having a conductive portion inside the vessel, a second electrode supported at the small end of the vessel, means connected to the vessel for introducing a selected gas therein, a source of high potential having two poles. means for connecting one pole of the high potential source to the annular electrode, and means for connecting the other pole of the potential source to the second electrode.

Thumb-actuated two-axis controller

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Hollow, R. H. (Inventor)

1986-01-01

A two axis joystick controller is described. It produces at least one output signal in relation to pivotal displacement of a member with respect to an intersection of the two axes. The member is pivotally movable on a support with respect to the two axes. The support has a centrally disposed aperture. A light source is mounted on the pivotally movable member above the aperture to direct light through the aperture. A light sensor is mounted below the aperture in the support at the intersection of the two axes to receive the light from the light source directed through the aperture. The light sensor produces at least one output signal related to a location on the sensor at which the light from the light source strikes the sensor.

40 CFR 421.304 - Standards of performance for new sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2013 CFR

2013-07-01

... Secondary Titanium Subcategory § 421.304 Standards of performance for new sources. Any new source subject to... air pollution control. NSPS Limitations for the Primary and Secondary Titanium Subcategory Pollutant... pounds) of TiCl4 produced Chromium (total) 0.346 0.140 Lead 0.262 0.122 Nickel 0.515 0.346 Titanium 0.496...

40 CFR 421.304 - Standards of performance for new sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2012 CFR

2012-07-01

... Secondary Titanium Subcategory § 421.304 Standards of performance for new sources. Any new source subject to... air pollution control. NSPS Limitations for the Primary and Secondary Titanium Subcategory Pollutant... pounds) of TiCl4 produced Chromium (total) 0.346 0.140 Lead 0.262 0.122 Nickel 0.515 0.346 Titanium 0.496...

40 CFR 421.304 - Standards of performance for new sources.

Code of Federal Regulations, 2014 CFR

2014-07-01

... Secondary Titanium Subcategory § 421.304 Standards of performance for new sources. Any new source subject to... air pollution control. NSPS Limitations for the Primary and Secondary Titanium Subcategory Pollutant... pounds) of TiCl4 produced Chromium (total) 0.346 0.140 Lead 0.262 0.122 Nickel 0.515 0.346 Titanium 0.496...

78 FR 53020 - Branch Technical Position on the Import of Non-U.S. Origin Radioactive Sources

Federal Register 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

2013-08-28

... produced radioisotopes or Radium- 226 which can be disposed of in non-Part 61 or equivalent facilities'' as... Import of Non-U.S. Origin Radioactive Sources AGENCY: U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. ACTION: Final... Non-U.S. Origin Sources to provide additional guidance on the application of this exclusion in the...

Height growth and foliage color in a Scotch pine provenance study in northern Michigan

Treesearch

Peter W. Garrett

1969-01-01

A Scotch pine provenance study conducted in northern Michigan revealed important differences in height growth and foliage color among seedlings from 83 European sources. Seed from southern European sources produced seedlings with the best fall foliage coloration. Height growth was fastest among seedlings from sources with latitudes like that of the Michigan planting...

40 CFR 63.7985 - Am I subject to the requirements in this subpart?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2011 CFR

2011-07-01

... (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...)(1) through (4) of this section. (1) Are located at or are part of a major source of hazardous air... as defined in § 63.8105. (3) Process, use, or produce HAP. (4) Are not part of an affected source...

40 CFR 63.7985 - Am I subject to the requirements in this subpart?

Code of Federal Regulations, 2010 CFR

2010-07-01

... (CONTINUED) AIR PROGRAMS (CONTINUED) NATIONAL EMISSION STANDARDS FOR HAZARDOUS AIR POLLUTANTS FOR SOURCE...)(1) through (4) of this section. (1) Are located at or are part of a major source of hazardous air... as defined in § 63.8105. (3) Process, use, or produce HAP. (4) Are not part of an affected source...

Screening of non-traditional irrigation water sources for Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli in the mid-Atlantic region of the United States: a conserve study

USDA-ARS?s Scientific Manuscript database

Introduction: The exploration of nontraditional irrigation water sources (NTIWS) has become a national priority with regard to agricultural water security because of the severe stress climate variability has placed on traditional irrigation sources. NTIWS that are being analyzed for potential use on...

VizieR Online Data Catalog: Second Planck Catalogue of Compact Sources (PCCS2) (Planck+, 2016)

NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Planck Collaboration; Ade, P. A. R.; Aghanim, N.; Argueso, F.; Arnaud, M.; Ashdown, M.; Aumont, J.; Baccigalupi, C.; Banday, A. J.; Barreiro, R. B.; Bartolo, N.; Battaner, E.; Beichman, C.; Benabed, K.; Benoit, A.; Benoit-Levy, A.; Bernard, J.-P.; Bersanelli, M.; Bielewicz, P.; Bock, J. J.; Bohringer, H.; Bonaldi, A.; Bonavera, L.; Bond, J. R.; Borrill, J.; Bouchet, F. R.; Boulanger, F.; Bucher, M.; Burigana, C.; Butler, R. C.; Calabrese, E.; Cardoso, J.-F.; Carvalho, P.; Catalano, A.; Challinor, A.; Chamballu, A.; Chary, R.-R.; Chiang, H. C.; Christensen, P. R.; Clemens, M.; Clements, D. L.; Colombi, S.; Colombo, L. P. L.; Combet, C.; Couchot, F.; Coulais, A.; Crill, B. P.; Curto, A.; Cuttaia, F.; Danese, L.; Davies, R. D.; Davis, R. J.; de Bernardis, P.; De Rosa, A.; de Zotti, G.; Delabrouille, J.; Desert, F.-X.; Dickinson, C.; Diego, J. M.; Dole, H.; Donzelli, S.; Dore, O.; Douspis, M.; Ducout, A.; Dupac, X.; Efstathiou, G.; Elsner, F.; Ensslin, T. A.; Eriksen, H. K.; Falgarone, E.; Fergusson, J.; Finelli, F.; Forni, O.; Frailis, M.; Fraisse, A. A.; Franceschi, E.; Frejse, L. A.; Galeotta, S.; Galli, S.; Ganga, K.; Giard, M.; Giraud-Heraud, Y.; Gjerlow, E.; Gonzalez-Nuevo, J.; Gorski, K. M.; Gratton, S.; Gregorio, A.; Gruppuso, A.; Gudmundsson, J. E.; Hansen, F. K.; Hanson, D.; Harrison, D. L.; Helou, G.; Henrot-Versille, S.; Hernandez-Monteagudo, C.; Herranz, D.; Hildebrandt, S. R.; Hivon, E.; Hobson, M.; Holmes, W. A.; Hornstrup, A.; Hovest, W.; Huffenberger, K. M.; Hurier, G.; Jaffe, A. H.; Jaffe, T. R.; Jones, W. C.; Juvela, M.; Keihanen, E.; Keskitalo, R.; Kisner, T. S.; Kneissl, R.; Knoche, J.; Kunz, M.; Kurki-Suonio, H.; Lagache, G.; Lahteenmaki, A.; Lamarre, J.-M.; Lasenby, A.; Lattanzi, M.; Lawrence, C. R.; Leahy, J. P.; Leonardi, R.; Leon-Tavares, J.; Lesgourgues, J.; Levrier, F.; Liguori, M.; Lilje, P. B.; Linden-Vornle, M.; Lopez-Caniego, M.; Lubin, P. M.; Macias-Perez, J. F.; Maggio, G.; Maino, D.; Mandolesi, N.; Mangilli, A.; Maris, M.; Marshall, D. J.; Martin, P. G.; Martinez-Gonzalez, E.; Masi, S.; Matarrese, S.; McGehee, P.; Meinhold, P. R.; Melchiorri, A.; Mendes, L.; Mennella, A.; Migliaccio, M.; Mitra, S.; Miville-Deschenes, M.-A.; Moneti, A.; Montier, L.; Morgante, G.; Mortlock, D.; Moss, A.; Munshi, D.; Murphy, J. A.; Naselsky, P.; Nati, F.; Natoli, P.; Negrello, M.; Netterfield, C. B.; Norgaard-Nielsen, H. U.; Noviello, F.; Novikov, D.; Novikov, I.; Oxborrow, C. A.; Paci, F.; Pagano, L.; Pajot, F.; Paladini, R.; Paoletti, D.; Partridge, B.; Pasian, F.; Patanchon, G.; Pearson, T. J.; Perdereau, O.; Perotto, L.; Perrotta, F.; Pettorino, V.; Piacentini, F.; Piat, M.; Pierpaoli, E.; Pietrobon, D.; Plaszczynski, S.; Pointecouteau, E.; Polenta, G.; Pratt, G. W.; Prezeau, G.; Prunet, S.; Puget, J.-L.; Rachen, J. P.; Reach, W. T.; Rebolo, R.; Reinecke, M.; Remazeilles, M.; Renault, C.; Renzi, A.; Ristorcelli, I.; Rocha, G.; Rosset, C.; Rossetti, M.; Roudier, G.; Rowan-Robinson, M.; Rubino-Martin, J. A.; Rusholme, B.; Sandri, M.; Sanghera, H. S.; Santos, D.; Savelainen, M.; Savini, G.; Scott, D.; Seiffert, M. D.; Shellard, E. P. S.; Spencer, L. D.; Stolyarov, V.; Sudiwala, R.; Sunyaev, R.; Sutton, D.; Suur-Uski, A.-S.; Sygnet, J.-F.; Tauber, J. A.; Terenzi, L.; Toffolatti, L.; Tomasi, M.; Torni Koski, M.; Tristram, M.; Tucci, M.; Tuovinen, J.; Turler, M.; Umana, G.; Valenziano, L.; Valiviita, J.; van Tent, B.; Vielva, P.; Villa, F.; Wade, L. A.; Walter, B.; Wandelt, B. D.; Wehus, I. K.; Yvon, D.; Zacchei, A.; Zonca, A.

2017-01-01

The Low Frequency Instrument (LFI) DPC produced the 30, 44, and 70GHz maps after the completion of eight full surveys (spanning the period 12 August 2009 to 3 August 2013). In addition, special LFI maps covering the period 1 April 2013 to 30 June 2013 were produced in order to compare the Planck flux-density scales with those of the Very Large Array and the Australia Telescope Compact Array, by performing simultaneous observations of a sample of sources over that period. The High Frequency Instrument (HFI) DPC produced the 100, 143, 217, 353, 545, and 857GHz maps after five full surveys (2009 August 12 to 2012 January 11). (16 data files).

Controlling light’s helicity at the source: orbital angular momentum states from lasers

PubMed Central

2017-01-01

Optical modes that carry orbital angular momentum (OAM) are routinely produced external to the laser cavity and have found a variety of applications, thus increasing the demand for integrated solutions for their production. Yet such modes are notoriously difficult to produce from lasers due to the strict symmetry requirements for their creation, together with the need to break the degeneracy in helicity. Here, we review the progress made since 1992 in producing such twisted light modes directly at the source, from gas to solid-state lasers, bulk to integrated on-chip solutions, through to generic devices for on-demand OAM in both scalar and vector forms. This article is part of the themed issue ‘Optical orbital angular momentum’. PMID:28069767

Producing multicharged fullerene ion beam extracted from the second stage of tandem-type ECRIS

DOE Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI.GOV)

Nagaya, Tomoki, E-mail: nagaya@nf.eie.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp; Nishiokada, Takuya; Hagino, Shogo

2016-02-15

We have been constructing the tandem-type electron cyclotron resonance ion source (ECRIS). Two ion sources of the tandem-type ECRIS are possible to generate plasma individually, and they also confined individual ion species by each different plasma parameter. Hence, it is considered to be suitable for new materials production. As the first step, we try to produce and extract multicharged C{sub 60} ions by supplying pure C{sub 60} vapor in the second stage plasma because our main target is producing the endohedral fullerenes. We developed a new evaporator to supply fullerene vapor, and we succeeded in observation about multicharged C{sub 60}more » ion beam in tandem-type ECRIS for the first time.« less

NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, on Behalf of the Fermi Large Area Telescope Collaboration

NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Thompson, David J.

2010-01-01

Because high-energy gamma rays can be produced by processes that also produce neutrinos, the gamma-ray survey of the sky by the Fermi (Gamma-ray Space Telescope offers a view of potential targets for neutrino observations. Gamma-ray bursts. Active Galactic Nuclei, and supernova remnants are all sites where hadronic, neutrino-producing interactions are plausible. Pulsars, pulsar wind nebulae, and binary sources are all phenomena that reveal leptonic particle acceleration through their gamma-ray emission. While important to gamma-ray astrophysics, such sources are of less interest to neutrino studies. This talk will present a broad overview of the constantly changing sky seen with the Large Area Telescope (LAT)on the Fermi spacecraft.

High-temperature pyrolysis of blended animal manures for producing renewable energy and value-added biochar

USDA-ARS?s Scientific Manuscript database

In this study, we used a commercial pilot-scale, skid-mounted pyrolysis reactor system to produce combustible gas and biochar at 620ºC from three sources (chicken litter, swine solids, mixture of swine solids with rye grass). Pyrolysis of swine solids produced gas with the greatest higher heating va...

Using Internet Search Data to Produce State-Level Measures: The Case of Tea Party Mobilization

ERIC Educational Resources Information Center

DiGrazia, Joseph

2017-01-01

This study proposes using Internet search data from search engines like Google to produce state-level metrics that are useful in social science research. Generally, state-level research relies on demographic statistics, official statistics produced by government agencies, or aggregated survey data. However, each of these data sources has serious…